Hello Thanks for joining us for sustaining us here on Kale CSPI Yes I'm David Nazar When we talk about environmentalism This topic can often be associated with doom and gloom or Some argue even an alarmist or divisive point of View Well Peter Korea has spent years Trying to change that Exactly who is Peter Carey Eva He's a scientist at UCLA and one of the most renowned climate Scientists in the US and now he is the new president And CEO for the Aquarium of the Pacific in Long Beach Ironically Areva has angered many of his fellow environmentalists with Tell it like it is style He's even reprimanded the enviro community For demonizing science deniers and corporations Areva has a unique approach to bring everyone together to combat Climate changing global warming and those efforts begin with inclusion Not exclusion What exactly is sustainability The way I think about sustainability is that no no one Not one of us wants to use the planet Or use resources so that Tomorrow we're worse off next week They're worse Next year next century or thought so It's This notion that let's not use Up our future opportunity and then economic Clay It's come increasingly to involve Senses of fairness and equity so That it's not a sustainable world If yeah You've made sure that there always be enough food Yeah you make sure that you'll have clean fresh Water But you know one percent of the population Has access to most of it and the rest of the population Is just barely getting by on those resources So it's it's this Very scientific idea that deals with ecology And the natural sciences and the physical sciences It's this quality of life idea and then There's an economic notion in terms of distribution of resources Sustainability is how we live up the planet I mean certainly you know how we act as Consumers Certainly what businesses do Government policy but it's Just the way we live on the planet We often hear the term Staunch environmentalists or environmentalist Where was this borne out of when did this really all begin The advocacy and the activism if You will the misbehavior of companies With technology the activism of the Vietnam War And then people taking environmental issues To the court litigation suing about endangered species So is it all those coming together and so polarized When you talk about environmental sustainability It's either liberal Versus conservative left versus right Environmentalists versus business interests How can we bring folks together and collaborate What You said is exactly right And at the same time it's also totally wrong And I say that because of my old job at the Nature Conservancy I Used to be asked to go to Texas and Utah and talk to climate deniers Just people like that In in in my conversations Everybody's an environmentalist Do you think anybody wakes up in the morning and says I want to go spoil the world I want to pollute the world I want to destroy it So then we kind of created a story That has generated exactly What you describe that it's Republican versus Democrat We didn't need to you know we didn't need to At all And it's it's partly the fault of the environmental Movement for being So quick to judge people as an environmentalist Instead Maybe what you could do is start in finding common ground The issue Is finding common ground because as much as we all care about the environment we want A future for everyone Don't business Interests don't conservatives Doesn't corporate America have A right to say maybe this isn't such a good thing or We need coal or we need the Keystone pipeline or We need desalination turning ocean water into drinking water Don't those folks have a right to their opinion as Much as environmentalists do about sustaining the environment First Bob you know any Environmental decision is both science and public policy and political Process So certainly they have the right to their opinion But I think we're kind of founded and most countries are founded on the notion That there's a limits to rights so that there's a limit That if they pollute the environment in a way That hurts the health of people downstream In a river they don't have that right So you know It's well established principle that the rights Of business are not unlimited They Are bounded And most businesses would agree that today You know 19 out of 20 leading business schools In the U.S. have corporate sustainability programs almost Every company has state ability reports sometimes they may be Greenwashing but just the fact they invest in making Gives you some sense of a change in its values Big corporations in the climate policy The private sector is ahead of the U.S. federal government right now Well let me jump in here for a second because as an example one industries oil Industry those folks believe fracking and intense oil Drilling is good for the nation Environmentalists believe It's bad harms the environment is terribly catastrophic things Potentially to us How do you bring those two sides together The way I would start that conversation is I would Admit to the values Of those corporate leaders and instead of immediately Saying you don't care about the environment I take you care about the environment I know you care about the environment I find out about some things they did about the environment You know a lot of those those companies Invest a lot in cleaning up the water That produced water from fracking So they generate they care About that technology And then you you Would you know make the argument that so You know I understand your values but I also understand The pressures you have to make money And I sort of start the conversation in Less accusatory way Do you agree in 100 years We have to be off fossil Deals but you ask that question Most Would say yes So then you start with that and you work backwards You say what Let's look at the science Guess what It's happening faster Nobody Thought I mean these are actually the conversations I used to have with CEOs Of companies for sure there are individuals who are bad actors As leaders of corporations if you can find that in any profession if you try To find that common ground both the common ground that We really do have to get off fossil fuels within a hundred Years The common ground that you do care about the environment I've had CEOs tell me they don't want that I Want my daughter to think I'm a bad guy Where do you find fault with Environmentalists and their cause and advocacy Or do you There's a sort of a portfolio of diversity of environmentalist You have you know Greenpeace who does these really Clever things you know that I'm sure they are meant to embarrass You have less theater more Social policy policy advocates who Still might overstate things a little bit The extremely ardent environmentalist It might say the planet or species has rights OK so take a look at the planet and species Rights human rights and animal rights Now I think every one of us agrees That that's true that there's all Three of those rights are valid legitimate Ethical rights We just weigh them differently You seem To have a very centrist independent position where You see both sides you see the great work environmentalists Doing But you also appreciate the great work business interests are doing and how the two can Morph together Part of that is I have a real appreciation of jobs Is there a way to have a clean safe healthy Environment and also have a great amount of jobs Absolutely What do you see as some of the major environmental And sustainability issues of our day Any Person who's an environmental scientist has to say that it's climate change I'm Climate change is is an existential threat globally If you disrupt climate systems Enough that you know major weather patterns Major air streams and an ocean circulation If you if you disrupt them that much it's going To change the Experience of nations in a way that the nations Going to be disrupted You know we're not there yet And I don't want to sound like a doom and gloom But you have to accept that There is a finite probability That that could happen and that should give you pause Joining me now to discuss this further is Megan Sally Wells Megan is the former mayor of Culver City and is now currently A council member there she has been in public service for the last decade And has spent most of her career advocating for environmental causes And effecting change in the process Thanks so much for being here Megan It's my pleasure Hey we have a lot to Talk about with your city Culver City we're going to get to that in a few minutes First Though let's discuss my interview with Peter Corrina doesn't he seem To take the approach of reason over radicalism when speaking About the environment climate change global warming all that stuff What's your take on My interview with him and what he has to say and his approach Well I mean to me he Talks a lot of sense I am a ruined second generation So I have a soft space space in my heart for UCLA of course and their excellent work and You know reason versus radicalism I You know it's easy to try to go to extremes And I think he's he's going down the middle which Is a sensible and somewhat comfortable place to be So you know I think it was an interesting he brings A lot to the table and I guess personally that Frame is a little troubling to me because you The way I defined radicalism is I think it's radical Pollute the planet right I think it's radical to Have your business based on Something that harms people And so I think You know sometimes we we bandy about some of these Extremes but at the end of the day I hope that We're all really focused on making sure that we have a livable Planet with livable livable wages And your staunch environmentalists I hope that's not a bad Now After talking to Peter naive of me I Did you take issue with anything else Peter told Particularly the way he wants to sort of speak with Businesses and not demonize them or the science deniers Or whatever the case may be Well I mean I Talking is good The dialog is good and I don't think any of Us can afford to not be in Involved in environmental work and in some way So whatever allies in that fight I Think are worthy allies And I think really for too long there's been this just False dichotomy a false dichotomy It's like either jobs or It's environmental and you know what California Has really proven is that the environment and Good union jobs go hand in hand There are more Solar jobs in California than there are coal Jobs in the entire United States I mean By a large factor And so you know the thought That somehow environmentalism is pitted against Business or good jobs I think it's false I Think it's misleading and I think we California in particular has Proven that that's old news and We have a lot of building to do And I Happen to believe very firmly in the Green New Deal that This is an historic moment where we need to Build out infrastructure we need to create good jobs Just like the new deal back in the day right with the Great Depression This is the time where we need to step up as as As a society to make sure that people Have decent wages good jobs and also We have a planet on which to enjoy them and all of those things Are completely complementary They do not contradict one Another whatsoever One would hope That's the case However you can't discount That narrative because there is Sort of a tale of two worlds you know and Peter is saying look environmentalists Should not demonize people who disagree with them although Consequently he and I'm sure as you would agree certain Businesses or industries should be reprimanded Correct Megan it's never good to poison your neighbor Right Like if your neighbor is actually poisoning you They need to be called out And sometimes it takes strong language You know what you might call demonizing To to bring attention and to stop that because You know we deserve to live safely to breathe clean Air and to have a future and so I understand When when the environmental movement Is strong and stated And but I but I don't find that radical I find the opposite radical It's possibly not radical However why then and I Ask you as both an environmentalist and a politician are we so polarized Here in the US over things like let's just say for example climate change And global warming and what do we do about all this Because look You cannot deny this Megan there are such warring political Factions here in the US everything seems to get politicized And in my opinion it is both the Democrats and the Republicans To blame Well I have To say that You know this is not a great time for new ones Everything Is heightened right right now especially And what We're seeing more and more are just really systemic Fundamental inequities that are pulling People apart And what we really need is to come Together Now that doesn't mean that I compromise and say Oh polluters go pollute I don't care It doesn't matter it just creates jobs No way That's that's not smart That's not realistic And it's definitely not the right way forward So accountability is absolutely important But but again you know this Either or is you know I think it's Kind of made up It's it's divide and conquer Right divide and conquer everybody loses And I think what we need today more than ever To survive on this planet to to thrive economically To be a fairer more just society is to Unite in order to thrive together And You know it's it's easy to Get caught like I'm on Twitter right It's easy to get Caught up in absolute isms But but really I mean where people Live is is it is I would say that it's A middle ground without compromise In other words you don't Have to be all one thing or all another We Just want to live our lives and respect one another And I think it's going to take some solid dialog And some healing really as a society to get back to that Place And I think when when there's less Inequality more of us can focus On building that future together So Final question then you present to the issues Thank You for that How can we find a solution in other words how Can environmentalists and business interests work together for The greater good Final question Yeah well I mean let's just take Culver City for example where A city of five square miles in the west side of the Los Angeles As we as of last year have been running 100 percent renewable energy Not in 10 years not in 20 years today and For the past year All of our businesses all of our residents and all municipal Facilities are 100 percent renewable That's creating Good union jobs that's helping our local Economy not some far out place You know that It's it's actually through something called the Clean Power Alliance that has public benefits Job training et cetera et cetera So like the the future and even I would Say the present at least here in Culver City is one where we Are not enemies We're just building smarter Right We know better right We have the technology Energy that we depend on shouldn't kill us And it doesn't have to And in fact is a tremendous Opportunity to build wealth in our communities with Without compromising on our lung health or Our future on this planet So I'm actually really excited Because I can see it working right now Thank you Megan Sally what else with great conviction The city council member of Culver City really thank you for being Here We appreciate it Thank you And talking about environmental sound business interests and working tett Is no bigger business in war or Certainly because of all the military contracts is a massive Money generator and also a massive environmental polluter Public media partner Earth fixed travels to the Pacific Northwest to explain how years of Portland Oregon prosperity From World War to shipbuilding morphed into a polluted Wasteland that still has environmental consequences Today Producer Cassandra Profit Has our story today Portland S waterfront has all the amenities of a modern city neighborhood Here we go It's right here But if you look closely You can still see traces of a dirty industrial past This has been here since the late 40s or 50s or 60s I don't know when this was tossed over here This chunk Of metal came from the hull of a warship one of many left to rust On the banks of the Willamette River I notice here there's a big shackle Paul Fishman spent years digging through the toxic mess in the late 40s Through the 1950s into the 1960s We didn't have environmental They did not know that well this is full of PCV And that could cause cancer They didn't know that break here This is a fire break from a ship's boiler This was here We kind of left it Why pull it all out and put different Rocks in there let's just leave this I mean in an engineering sense it works It also says to people whom there was something else Here historically wondered what that was Then it will be complete We know During World War Two shipyards were the pride of Portland Particularly with BP At their peak They were launching a new ship every four days Somewhat boast they were building ships faster than Hitler could sink them President Roosevelt told Americans these ships would bring liberty To Europe He called for a seven day workweek to build These liberty ships even faster to win the war While we are proud of what we are going this is Certainly no time to be content We must build more cargo ships still more cargo Ships as soon as one ship was launched Keel was immediately laid for the next Ship on that building way Speed was encourage And many times quality suffered But these ships were designed to be essentially expendable The United States got two trips of cargo across To support the troops It was a job Well done After the war was over The victory ships were obsolete but they still Had value as scrap metal Emory's Vidal turned one of Portland's wartime shipbuilding sites into the nation's largest Ship breaking operation But the ship breaking wouldn't go nearly As fast as the ship building For decades the SYDELL Dark Portland south waterfront was full of warships waiting to be Cut up and sold for scrap mounds and mounds And mounds of metal Just One heap after the next It was very Rusty and gritty and You'd kind of go who who would want to go out there From 1946 through the 1970s the Business dismantled around 300 ships I remember Dad Would come home and he would say that we could go down and go on a particular Ship before they started to dismantle what they had that kinda Rusty smell you know I just certain Certain smells you sort of can't forget Bill Goebel started working in the scrap yard in 1960 When he was just 16 years old So these pieces They've come off of the ship from where in the dismantling days Stern Pieces and that's about peace there Some ship Holes were filled with concrete for ballast Those pieces And anything else they didn't have scrap value were left on the banks Of the river The very end of it you know you'd have everything cut down The last five or six feet of the ship and that's what It would be The company stopped dismantling ships in the late 70s But the process of cutting up ships left a lot more than Madeline Concrete Behind When Jay Seidel took over the business from his father He inherited a polluted wasteland The world Changed the light test when dad was young and active and growing The business We now know that there were more Materials on the ship that represent an environmental Issues lead based paint as best as Seabees and other things that we ran across But at the time we were doing it Nobody knew that they Were hazardous The pollution covered 30 acres of land And half a mile of riverbank surviving the site Would be a massive undertaking This is certainly the biggest Project I've ever done because I was hired Fishman an environmental Consultant to oversee a voluntary cleanup I said Guys I will do this but I'm only going to work Half time because I need the other half time To see a therapist to figure out why I'm saying yes This river bank Before we started Was very very steep covered with all kinds Of rubble concrete asphalt metal all Kinds of industrial and urban debris that had Been dumped here It was truly a mess Cleaning it all up meant clearing debris and removing the most contaminated Soil and river sediment to cover the land and a portion Of the riverbed with a thick layer of clean sand dirt and Gravel This entire property now is capped So there is a protective barrier of at least two feet Of clean material between people Wildlife fish etc.

So we've cut off the Source of contamination Then they started planting It's really a whole ecosystem that we've I don't like to use The word restored because it's not the way it was two or three hundred Years ago and beyond But it's really a simulation Of a very native riparian riverbank and we're very very proud of it Look it Looks great by cleaning up an ecological mess His ideal family redeemed their own tainted land It took 20 years and 20 million dollars but now They have a clean piece of riverfront property The chance to be Part of Portland's next chapter of reinvention And redevelopment Thanks Cassandra Profit And public media partner Earth Thanks for that report For more information About our program just click on KLC US dot org and click contact Us to send us your questions and comments or story ideas so we Can hear from you Thank you so much for joining us for this edition Of Sustaining US here on KLC s PBS I'm Dave and his