(upbeat music) - And welcome back to "Family Health Matters."

I'm Shelley Irwin.

With me today, Derrick King, Director of Athletic Inclusion at Grand Valley State University.

Jermale Eddie, Director of Business Growth at SpringGR.

And Julian Newman, founder and CEO of Future Cast Foundation.

Sound like a broken record, but I only get the best.

Gentlemen, thank you for you.

Quick little round table.

Are you a father?

- Yes, I am.

- Are you a father?

- Yes, I am.

- Are you a father?

- Yes, I am.

- All right, good.

There's one piece of the credibility.

Thank you for that.

Jermale, would you talk a little bit about how you are involved extensively with fatherhood?

- Well, I am a father of three boys.

But I'm also an uncle of several nieces and nephews, so I would put that in there as well.

And I can't help but also mention just a mentor to those in the community as well.

So I think that's another way to be a father figure of sorts.

And many of us probably can relate to that, at least having at least one additional father figure outside of the home or many.

- Hm.

Derrick, what's your story?

- Well, I'm a father of three.

I have a 25 year old.

I have a 23 year old and a 19 year old.

And I started really, really early.

However, growing up, you know, with my kids and raising my kids has taught me to be very impactful in their lives.

And also being a student athlete in college and a coach, I've been a coach for 19 years here in the Grand Rapids area.

I coached at East Grand Rapids, Grand Rapids Catholic Central, and most recently, Grand Rapids, Ottawa Hills.

And so I've been a mentor, a father figure to not only my kids, but to a number of kids in the Grand Rapids area over the course of, like I said, 19 years.

And so, being someone that they can call on, somebody that fills in the gap, that kind of is a bridge for them.

That they can come to for anything, financially, you know, for advice, mentorship.

I embrace that.

I love that.

And that's kind of why I'm in the space I'm in now at being a athletic director at Grand Valley, so.

- Thank you for that.

Tell us your story, Julian.

- Well, I am the father of four amazing daughters.

I'm wearing a T-shirt that says I'm raising royalty.

And so that's the focus on raising queens.

And so I'm very, very proud of the fact that I'm a dad.

It's one of the most important jobs in the world.

And I take it very seriously, like these gentlemen do.

In addition to my own personal, you know, connection to my daughters, like these brothers, you know, mentoring is a part of the conversation.

And so, I think it's important for us that have experience being fathers to invest in those that are trying to find experience.

And then we always need to be reaching back to fathers to father us.

You know, I just had a great conversation with my dad about some fathering leadership issues so he can provide some insight into me.

And so the organization that I founded, Future Cast, and a couple of other ventures that we have, are about developing leaders.

And when we're doing one-on-one connection and coaching about high performance, high performers, and, you know, fathering a lot of times comes to the forefront.

- Okay.

- And how can I not just be effective in the marketplace, how can I be effective at home?

And fathering is such a significant part of human development, and we wanna make sure that we regularly, I wanna make sure that I regularly invest in that because others have invested in me.

- Question for you all, and then we'll digress.

How are we doing with fatherhood in 2024?

Jermale.

- 2024, wow, that's- - That is the year we're in.

- It's a lot.

That is a lot.

I think, you know, I'll start with me, personally how I think.

My oldest is 15 years old, so I have three wonderful boys in the household that I'm raising alongside of my wife.

And I believe that as the year goes on, I get better, I get more experience.

And I also have been able to admit more when I'm wrong, or when I failed, or when I dropped the ball to apologize.

Say why, say what it was for, even to my kids.

'Cause I grew up when an era where parents didn't apologize to kids, you were a kid and that was it, stay in the kids' place.

But I'm also witnessing, I think, across the community, seeing that more as well.

Seeing fathers even, you know, social media, fathers posting more about their kids, or about their neighborhood.

Or about their involvement with their kids' teams and things of that nature when it comes to sports.

So, I believe, I think that we're doing better.

I think we're doing better as a community.

I know that there's a whole lot more that can be done, but I think we're doing good.

- Yes.

Add to that, Derrick.

- Yeah, so being a father in 2024, one thing I've learned, you know, having a 25 year old right now is, you know, and a 23 year old, my daughter especially, you know, just vulnerability.

That is something that I've learned to be not, you know, you know, there's that thought process of being stoic.

You know, or that toxic masculinity of, you know, we have to be so tough and so hard on our kids and things of that nature.

Something that I've learned is, is to be more vulnerable, to be more open, to listen, and to really listen.

It's been something that my daughter's taught me, especially as a young woman, because she's going through things that, you know, being a college graduate and these things, she needs someone to talk to about.

And, you know, I know that that vulnerability for me is kind of developed into, I like to say vulnerability is currency, right?

Because when I show that I'm vulnerable and show that my fault or areas where I could have improved that with my kids, and I'm able to actually verbalize and speak about those things with my kids, they actually will give more back.

The relationship becomes better.

Because, you know, I mentioned being a coach.

Even after being a coach, especially with your kids, you wanna make sure you have a relationship after the season ends.

After the, you know, whatever the athletic thing that they're doing ends.

And being a father is very important.

And, you know, having that relationship is really huge.

Sometimes it can be a thankless position, you know, from our kids because each kid's gonna go a different way.

However, you have to believe that the things you taught them at home, they'll be able to come back to and use as they get older.

And my kids have kind of taught me that in so many ways.

So just being a father in 2024 is being vulnerable, being open to you being, you know, taking constructive criticism from your kids.

Giving them a voice, making sure that they have a seat at the table to say, "Hey, Dad, this is what I'm experiencing and I wanna talk to you about this.

This was my point of view."

So it's been very important to me.

It's been very enlightening.

And then being able to actually, I have a group of brothers I talk to in a group text message, Jermale being one of them.

We all have all raised each other's kids in some way.

We ask each other questions, you know, because there's no book.

When you become a father, there's no book.

Nobody tells you, there's no manual to tell you how to raise kids and what to do, you know?

But when you say you wanna do something, sometimes it takes a village to kinda help in that area.

- Good, so we'll come back to more of that preparation for the fathers-to-be, but what do you add to that, Julian?

- I think, multidimensional investment is a significant part of fathering.

I thought, you know, these gentlemen talking about vulnerability and the ability to apologize.

- Yeah.

- And, you know, the era of, hey, yo, I talk, you listen, that's what it's gonna be.

And so that is not the best way.

You know, thankfully, you know, my father didn't model that.

But when I say multidimensional investment, it means that if you have more than one children, one child, you gotta make sure that you invest in a different way.

Your child, as they mature, your role changes in terms of how you express fathering in their life.

You can't deal with a 25 year old the same the way you're gonna deal with a 5 year old.

- Yeah.

- Because in one season you have complete veto power, okay?

If you don't like what is happening or somebody does something, you know what?

You know, you're going to your room.

You can't watch TV, we're taking your phone away, all those things.

But when your child comes of age, you don't have veto power.

You are a mentor, you're a coach, you're an advisor.

And your counsel doesn't have to be accepted.

- Yeah.

- And so, just like our children change and mature, we have to change and mature.

And we have to adjust our methodology according to the season that our child is in.

I would have older parents or grandparents say to me, you know, really value this precious time.

- Yeah.

- Because it goes so quickly.

And I remember thinking, huh, what are you talking about?

Now that my girls are older, I recognize what they were trying to tell me.

And it felt like, man, this is never gonna be different than this chaos.

But there are times where it's like, man, that chaos was so precious and important.

And so we have to, as fathers, develop, we have to grow, we have to learn, we have to be vulnerable, we have to say we're sorry, we have to apologize.

And then I think when we make those investments, we have the right to call our children to a high standard, to call them to the greatness that we've invested in them.

But I can't call if I've not made the investment.

I can't withdraw and demand if I've not made the deposit.

- Yeah.

- So good fathering is deposits, it's me investing and then looking for the withdrawal.

- Yeah.

- And so, we can't be all withdrawal, but we can't be all deposit.

Because I think one of the important things about fathering is defining and calling our children to the highest level of their potential.

- Yeah.

- And I think that's an important part of what father's all about.

- Let's stay in this conversation now.

I'll stay with you, Derrick, on this.

You're agreeing.

Yeah, add to this.

- Oh yeah, so, you know, he made me think about something called trust deposits, right?

And you have to earn the right sometimes, and I know these are kids, and we feel like, well, our kids, you gotta do what I tell you to do anyway.

No, they don't, they're people.

And so you have to earn the right from our kids, from your child to get trust, to earn their trust.

You know what I mean?

And the minute that they see a falter, a flaw, some of those that stock drops a little bit with them, you know?

But that's when we put ourselves, if we put ourselves on this higher pedestal, as if we can't make mistakes.

As if we don't do things that, you know, normal people do, that's when those, again, those trust deposits, the stock drops.

But when you are honest, open, you can communicate well, and you can say, "Yeah, I've messed up.

I've made some of those mistakes.

You're not the only one that made that mistake at 15 or 16 years old."

Right?

And you actually open up, that's when the vulnerability comes, Listen, I did X, Y, Z, trust me.

And then you don't, maybe our parents may have been the ones that said, you know, you gotta go to your room, or you gotta do this, and you don't.

Maybe you take a different approach, right?

And that approach is, is let's talk about this.

How did it make you feel when you did that?

Why did you do that?

And it's not the old school mama, why did you do that?

And you already know she know the answer.

You know, there could be a consequence after that.

No, it has to be a true- - There definitely gonna be a consequence.

- You know, it has to be a true, why did you do that?

You know?

And trying to get into the mind frame of why my kid did this, right?

What was going on with them?

Some of our kids nowadays, especially nowadays, and I gotta tease this out of being at post COVID.

You know, some kids went from being eighth graders to sophomores in high school.

They did not have interaction for almost two years or so.

So to now go and be in a school and be interactive and deal with a teacher when they're like, "Well, I could do this work online at home."

Right?

- Wow.

- That has done some things to our kids from, you know, caused depression, anxiety, true introverts.

You could see like my kid is smart, but they don't wanna be around other people and that's fine.

They just wanna be around their family.

And so understanding that and saying, "Hey, let's talk about that for a minute.

How can I help you in that space?"

And so I believe that, again, agreeing with him, earning the right to be able to speak to your kids, or earning their trust and being vulnerable and saying, "Yes, I'm human too.

I've made these mistakes.

I wanna be better.

I wanna help you."

And then say, "Hey, well let's grow together in this space."

Right?

I think it's important because when you try to mask or hide your struggles, or hide the a person that you used to be, or the things that you may have done in the past, your kids are gonna get older and they're gonna ask questions.

And you can't lie to your kids, right?

There's a time and place in which you have to be, you know, a little more open with them as a 5-year-old is different- - Yeah, yeah.

- Than when they're 20 years old.

But it's really important that we're able to take that mask off, be vulnerable, earn their trust by showing that we're human and having a good connection with our kid.

Because, you know, the older they get, the more they're gonna be able to, and one thing you don't wanna do, is you wanna come together with your kids.

You don't want, you know, to start the separation process as they get older.

'Cause you know, as we all know, as adults, we get set in our ways a little bit.

And next thing you know, it's like, "Well, I'll talk to dad when I talk to him."

You know, the importance and the value of being a father can begin to diminish.

- Thank you for that.

Jermale, what do you add to this?

- I just think, you know, when Julian was talking about the, and they both come off the deposits.

I'm like, you know, if you don't make enough deposits, you're gonna have a bounced check.

- Yeah.

- And there's a fee.

- [Shelley] Wow.

- There's a fee.

And, you know, for me, and in our household, we talk about just also wanting to raise good human beings.

- Yeah.

- Yep, you know, school's important, grades are important.

But we wanna raise good, great human beings that, you know, that vulnerability's okay.

That, you know, staying at home's okay.

Going out's okay.

But good human beings that can make good decisions on their own.

And it starts by, you know, the parents being that same way and displaying that.

And so, you know, I have, yeah, I have nothing to add to what these great men have have said, because, you know, we're living it.

We're living it.

- Yeah, let me stay with you, Jermale, on the advice you give to a father-to-be.

- Wow, the advice I give to a father-to-be.

One of the main pieces is to surround yourself with other fathers.

- Yeah.

- Other fathers, other father figures.

And even, you know, when it comes to advice, treat advice like a buffet, you know.

Sometimes you eat this, sometimes you eat that.

Or you learn, just take what you need, take what's for you for that season.

But when I think about the fathers-to-be, it's to also get involved from the very beginning if possible.

- Like, change a diaper?

- That's right.

I was about to say that, thank you.

- You're welcome.

- So when, when my oldest was born, I wanted to change their first diaper.

I didn't wanna wait.

Oh, he's too small.

I might break him.

No, I wanted to jump in right away, because I believe that that created a bond, you know?

Different than bond with mom, but I think it created a bond.

And so I wanted to jump right in.

I didn't need to wait until he could walk or 'til he could say words.

And, you know, it was to jump right in and to really a part of it.

And, you know, we try our best not to subscribe to the gender stereotypes, although, you know, they do exist.

- Yes.

- Sometimes you just slip back into that.

But, you know, I didn't want it to be where, you know, mom was the one was always the caretaker for every single thing.

- Yeah.

- So let me get- - Yeah.

- Let me get involved.

- Yeah.

- Let me get involved from the very beginning.

Even before this, I had to run to the orthodontist.

So that's involved and that's money.

(all laughing) - Right.

- As Derrick mentioned though, like, you know, that surrounding yourself with other fathers is just important.

It's just so important of different ages and stages, you know?

And one of my friend groups, you know, Derrick has the oldest kids.

And so I remember Derrick was like, "Ah, just wait."

You know, so we're like, "Derrick, when could they start dating?"

When, you know, when did they have a, you know?

- Yeah.

- And Julian's, his kids used to babysit and watch our kids, you know?

And so.

(all laughing) - Is he right about that?

Okay.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- I didn't remember that.

- So it's having that insulation so that if you do fall, you might hit the ground, but you're gonna have someone to pick you up.

- Gotcha.

- Derrick, your add to that, please.

- Having a plan is very important.

It gets everybody on the same page.

It creates a foundation.

And then I would say that again, adding, taking away from what Jermale said, is getting involved.

That is, for me, that's kind of the foundation of who I am.

I'm gonna always be involved with my kids in their life, and that's gonna be from now until forever.

Right?

And so, you know, letting them see that, you know, especially coming up in a two parent household, letting them see the foundation of mom and dad, if that can happen.

And then, and if that can't happen, letting them see that dad is here.

So that comes from helping picking them up at bus stops.

You know, there is parent committees in the school.

- Yes.

- Fathers can be a part of those parent committees.

We look at gender things and we're like, oh, mom's always on this.

No, this is called the parent committee.

So I will be involved as well.

And then making sure that you're continuously communicating with your child is very important.

Not every other day.

Consistent communication for me is huge, because you wanna know where your kids are.

So that's what I would add.

I would say planning, being involved.

And then the last piece I'll say is this, you know, making sure that you allow your kids to be the people that they are, not the people that you want them to be.

Right?

I could use my example of, I was a high school athlete.

I want all my kids to be high school athletes and play this sport.

And to a degree, some of the times, you know, my kids, they kinda did.

However, on the other side of it, it would, you know, if my daughter says, "Well, yeah, I wanna be an actress and I wanna do this."

It's like, "Well, okay, let's talk about that."

And then it's like, "No, Dad, I want to do this."

- Yes.

- Okay, fine.

That's what you wanna do.

Because just 'cause I don't wanna do it doesn't mean I don't have to support you.

So support your kids in areas where it's not a benefit to you all the time.

Sometimes it's okay to just sit in the stands, and if you have nothing to do with whatever's going on, this is their life.

- But you're in the stand.

- You're in the stand.

- Yeah.

- Yep.

And you're supportive, so.

- Yes.

That's what I have.

- Julian, add to that.

And then I wanna talk a little bit about the role of mentorship.

- Yeah.

- Maybe for the boys and girls that don't have fathers and how they can get their help.

- I think, you know, these gentlemen said it well, in terms of being present, having flexibility to recognize that this is their life and you can react to who they are, not just what you want them to be.

- Yeah.

- And having the emotional intelligence and relational intelligence to step back and say, "Okay, what can I do to be supportive?"

Derrick talked about spirituality.

You know, I think that great fathers in, you know, in addition to empowering and doing all the things that we're talking about and apologizing, I think they pray.

I think they pray.

I think they not only lean on the brotherhood or the fathers that preceded them, I think that great fathers ask and try to receive divine leadership and counsel.

Because it is not an easy job.

And like Derrick said, it is often a thankless job.

It's interesting with daughters, you know, all these young ladies that love to give father count.

Daddy, this is what you need to be doing.

This is how you need to dress.

This is how, you know, everybody got a lot of mamas in my life.

- Well, you get the shirt on, so it's something.

- You know, exactly, exactly.

And so, but I think it's one of those things, you know, in addition to sometimes being thankless, unless you've done it, you don't know how it's really done.

And so it's one of those things, we can talk about it, but until you get in the seat to do it- - Yeah.

- You really don't understand the totality, and the depth, and the gravitas of it all.

- Yeah.

And what do you add when it comes to mentoring?

- I think mentoring, you know, is twofold.

I think the person who's mentoring and making an investment, I think there has to be a desire and hunger for, to invest in this young father.

So I have a desire to invest in you because not everybody has had great fathering they've experienced and models and all that.

But there also has to be a hunger for the person receiving the mentoring to recognize the value that has been presented to them.

And so if we have a desire and a hunger for something, we can almost always get better at the something that we have a desire for.

There's resources available, but I gotta do it.

There's mentors available, but I need to make a call.

There are elders available, but I need to make myself available to align myself with their schedule to be able to have those meaningful conversations.

And so, you know, we have to, as people needing mentorship, have to be proactive.

Those that are doing the mentoring, we have to be receptive.

And I think the combination of that on both sides of the relationship is very significant and needed.

- Add to that, Jermale, and we're under five minutes.

- Yeah.

- And winding up, yep.

- I think, yeah, I think Julian hit the nail on the head.

And the fact that, you know, one needs to be teachable.

You know, I was thinking about, I was thinking about Coach King here, teachability.

You know, to be teachable, but from the on the mentor side of things, there's also a certain level of patience that's needed.

- Yeah.

- Because, you know, it can't be the three strikes you're out rule to the person that you're mentoring.

If you're gonna get involved in something like that, you need to think about it with a long-term investment over time.

And, you know, a young man, I started mentoring, it's funny, we have the same birthday and started mentoring him through Steepletown.

And he's moved on to another state and we still stay in touch.

And he's doing great.

And I knew that when I decided to say yes to mentoring him, that number one, I wasn't gonna be a mentor to, you know, hundreds of young men all at once.

I was gonna focus and just have the one.

- Yeah.

- But also recognize, and I mentioned this to him, is that I'm not perfect, I don't have all the answers.

But what I can do is tell you, in my experience, this is how it worked.

This is what happened, this is how I handled it, but also sharing, this is where I messed up at.

So the same thing like Derrick mentioned, you know, the vulnerability to your children that's in your household, the same thing also applies to those of whom you're mentoring and to be available.

- Yeah.

- To be, hey, call me anytime.

Anytime of the night with a question, with a need.

And I think that's where a lot of the work ends up happening.

- Yes.

Your final comment on that, Derrick?

- Yeah, so I'll just end it with a couple quick bullet points.

In terms of mentorship to those that are not in my household, I kinda take the same approach as I do to those in my household.

And there's a couple things I'll add real quick.

I always talk to my, you know, students that I'm mentoring and anybody else is, what are you willing to sacrifice?

Making sure that they're gonna be sacrificing time with whomever to raise their kids.

You're gonna be sacrificing time with other people 'cause these kids come first.

So sacrifice, putting in work every day.

So pennies in a jar is what I call it.

Putting a penny in a jar every day, it adds up to something.

You gotta add into these kids daily because eventually they're gonna become monuments of something positive and something good.

And then the last piece I always like to add is, I always tell I some of my student athletes this, so my student athletes, they'll know this, but earn your sleep.

What are you doing every day to earn the right to put your head on that pillow at night, right?

So if you're a father, have you put in 100% effort to raising these kids daily, right?

In order for you to say, you know what, I get to put my head on this pillow at night because I poured into them everything that I have.

So those are very important to me.

Those are three things that I pour into my student athletes, but I also pour into people that I'm mentoring.

So that's the tidbit that I'll add.

- No days off for that.

How do we find out more about you and yours?

- You can find me, I actually, I'm a motivational speaker, so you can connect with me at coachkingspeaks.com.

If you go there, you'll be able to see more information about me in details.

You can also connect with me via email.

My email address is simple.

DerrickKing39@gmail, or just CoachKingspeaks@gmail to connect with me there.

- Yes.

Quick, quick comfort, Mr Jermale.

- Yeah, for me, folk can find me at SpringGR mentoring businesses.

jermale@springgr.com.

I also have JE speaks where I am doing coaching, mentoring, speaking outside of that.

And I would say just stop me in the community.

- Yeah.

- I'm out there.

I'm involved, I'm available.

And just come and say hi.

- [Shelley] You bet.

20 seconds to you, my friend.

- I'm on all the socials and you can look me up, Julian Newman and Google me.

My website is juliannewman.org.

- Great.

Gentlemen, thank you.

Best three fathers in the house.

- Thank you very much.

- Thank you.

- Thank you so much.

- As we speak.

Take care of you.

- Appreciate you.

- And as always, thank you for you for watching this edition of "Family Health Matters."

Go out and be a better father tomorrow than you were today and yesterday.

Do your best in life.

Again, Shelley Irwin, thank you very much for watching.

Take care.

(cheerful music)