>> THIS IS A PRODUCTION OF PBS CHARLOTTE.

>> THIS WEEK ON OFF THE RECORD, CHARLOTTE CITY COUNCIL WANTS MORE COUNCIL MEMBERS ELECTED FOR MORE YEARS.

WHAT WILL CITY VOTERS SAY?

THEY WANT HIGHER TAXES FOR TRANSIT.

WHAT WILL RALEIGH SAY?

CMS WANTS MORE BOND MONEY FOR FEWER NEW SCHOOLS.

WHAT WILL MECKLENBURG COUNTY COMMISSIONERS SAY?

DEMOCRATS SAY NO TO THE PARTY'S CHOICE FOR CHAIRMAN.

AND THEY ROCK HILL SAYS IT'S TIME TO TEAR DOWN WHAT THE PANTHERS BUILT AND NEIGHBORS SIGNED A PETITION AND LOTS TO TALK ABOUT NEXT ON PBS CHARLOTTE.

[ THEME MUSIC ] ♪♪ >> WELCOME TO OUR PBS STUDIOS IN PLAZA MIDWOOD.

WE'RE OFF THE RECORD TALKING ABOUT THE STORIES YOU'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS WEEK AND IF YOU WATCH THE NEWS, READ THE NEWS AND LISTEN TO THE NEWS, YOU WILL RECOGNIZE THE NAMES AND FACES AROUND OUR VIRTUAL TABLE.

DANIELLE FROM AXIO CHARLOTTE, STEVE FROM WFAE AND TONY FROM THE LEDGER.

YOU CAN JOIN THE CONVERSATION FROM HOME OR ON THE PHONE.

EMAIL YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS TO WTVI.ORG.

YOU KNOW, THAT STORY ABOUT MAYOR LYLES AND HER HOUSE KIND OF STARTED AT THE BOTTOM OF OUR LIST THIS WEEK, BUT THOSE LITTLE STORIES GET BIGGER AS THE WEEK GOES ON AND THAT SEEMS TO BE THE ONE STORY THAT EVERYONE HAS AN OPINION ABOUT THIS WEEK.

LET'S START THERE, SHALL WE?

MAYOR LYLES OWNING A HOME IN WHAT IS NOW IN HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD AND HER PLANS ON WHAT TO DO WITH HOME RAISING CONTROVERSY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND AROUND THE CITY.

WHO WANTS TO TAKE FIRST CRACK ON WHAT'S GOING ON WITH MAYOR LYLES' HOUSE?

>> YEAH.

SO SHE PURCHASED A HOME THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY OWNED BY THE ISAAC HOOD, SR., BY HIS SON AFTER HE PASSED AWAY AND HE WAS PROMINENT ENGINEER IN McCRORY HEIGHTS AND WAS THE PREMIER CHOICE FOR BLACK MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES AND '50s AND '60s AND SO, YOU KNOW THIS HOME HAD BEEN OWNED IN THAT FAMILY FOR A WHILE AND SHE PURCHASED IT, I BELIEVE, IN FEBRUARY OR EARLY LAST YEAR.

THE HISTORIC DISTRICT VOTE FOR McCRORY HEIGHTS WAS IN AUGUST AND A FEW DAYS BEFORE THAT, SHE HAD FILED FOR A DEMOLITION, A COMPANY SHE WAS WORKING WITH ON THE DEMOLITION PERMIT.

SO NEIGHBORS STARTED A PETITION THIS WEEK TRYING TO STOP THE DEMOLITION, BUT AT THAT POINT, YOU KNOW, HAD IT STARTED ON WEDNESDAY AND THEY STARTED PETITION LAST MINUTE.

THEY DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE PLANS.

IT SEEMS LIKE RIGHT NOW, THERE'S NOT MUCH TO BE DONE.

>> THE HOUSE IS GONE FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND.

>> YEAH.

>> IT'S IN PILES NOW.

AND YOU KNOW, IT RAISES LOTS OF QUESTIONS.

FIRST OF ALL, YOU HAVE MORE THAN 200 NEIGHBORS IN McCRORY HEIGHTS WHO SIGNED THIS PETITION TRYING TO STOP THIS.

THIS ISN'T ONE NEIGHBOR VERSUS THE MAYOR, IS IT?

>> IN.

IT'S A COUPLE HUNDRED SIGNATURES LAST I CHECKED.

I SPOKE TO ISAAC HERD, JR., THE SON OF THE FIRST OWNER OF THE HOME, AND HE SAID, YOU KNOW, HE HAD CHOSEN TO SELL IT TO THE MAYOR BECAUSE HE WANTED TO HAVE SOMEONE WHO WOULD KIND OF RESPECT THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND MAINTAIN THE HOUSE AND YOU KNOW, THE FAMILY-- THE HOUSE THAT HIS FAMILY BUILT, AND SO I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT THE HISTORIC VALUE PARTICULARLY FROM THE NEIGHBORS.

>> THE BIGGER ISSUE REALLY IS IT TAPS INTO THIS ONGOING TREND THAT WE HAVE IN CHARLOTTE AND OTHER CITIES AROUND THIS COUNTRY ABOUT HOW WE DEAL WITH SOME OF THESE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, THAT ARE IN TRANSITION.

AND YOU HAVE A LOT OF CONCERN, DANIELLE, WRITTEN ABOUT GENTRIFICATION, RISING LAND VALUES IN SOME OF THESE NEIGHBORHOODS AND IS THAT GOING TO PUSH OUT SOME NEIGHBORS.

?

I THINK ONE OF THE REASONS THAT THIS STORY STRUCK A CORD THIS WEEK WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE IS THAT IT PLAYS INTO THAT.

THE CITY IS TRYING TO DO A LOT TO ADDRESS THOSE CONCERNS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT CONCERN ABOUT THE 2040 PLAN, UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE AND HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THESE NEIGHBORHOODS STAY INTACT.

THAT'S A LARGER CONTEXT THERE.

>> YEAH.

I THINK THE OPTICS ARE BAD, TOO.

OBVIOUSLY, NO RULES WERE BROKEN, BUT THE FACT THAT THE MAYOR TOOK ADVANTAGE OF, I GUESS, WHAT YOU WOULD CALL A DEADLINE, GETTING HER PETITION TO DEMOLISH BEFORE THE HISTORIC DESIGNATION, WHICH WOULD HAVE COMPLICATED, MAYBE NOT STOPPED, BUT CERTAINLY MIGHT HAVE COMPLICATED ANY DEMOLITION ON THE SITE.

YOU KNOW, ANYBODY WHO KNEW WHAT WAS ON COUNCIL'S AGENDA WOULD HAVE KNOWN TO MAYBE ACT THEN VERSUS AFTER THE VOTE, BUT WHEN THE MAYOR DOES IT, IT RAISES QUESTIONS ABOUT TRANSPARENCY AND I GUESS SPECIAL TREATMENT AND THAT SORT OF THING, AS WELL.

SO HOW DOES THIS AFFECT THE MAYOR POLITICALLY?

I MEAN, SHE'S A POPULAR MAYOR.

WE DON'T KNOW IF SHE'S RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION OR NOT.

IS THIS THE KIND OF THING THAT CAN HAUNT HER IN THE NEXT ELECTION CAMPAIGN, WHENEVER THAT MAY BE?

>> I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I MEAN, JEFF, YOU KIND OF SAID IT THAT THE MAYOR IS EXTREMELY POPULAR.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO DEMOCRAT IN THIS CITY THAT CAN BEAT HER IN A PRIMARY.

>> NO.

>> OBVIOUSLY NO REPUBLICAN WHO CAN BEAT HER.

THIS IS A GOOD STORY, AN IMPORTANT STORY, BUT IN TERMS OF THE IMPACT ON HER POLITICALLY, IT'S JUST NOT MUCH, BECAUSE THIS IS A DEMOCRATIC CITY AND VERY DIFFICULT TO DEFEAT AN INCUMBENT.

>> IT DOES KIND OF UNDERMINE THE ARGUMENT.

ANY TIME A COUNCIL MEMBER OR THE CITY COUNCIL AS A WHOLE ARGUES AGAINST FOLKS COMING IN AND FLIPPING HOUSES OR MAKING CHANGES TO LONGTIME EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS, IT'S HARD TO MAKE THAT ARGUMENT WHEN PERHAPS THE NEIGHBORHOOD THINKS YOU ARE DOING THE SAME THING THEY'RE TRYING TO STOP.

ONE OF THE INTERESTING QUOTES FROM THIS STORY, DANIELLE, WAS THE MAYOR TELLING IKE HERD, HER INTENTION WAS TO MAKE THIS HER FOREVER HOME, RIGHT?

I GUESS FOREVER INCLUDED TO TEAR IT DOWN AND REBUILD SOMETHING ELSE.

IT'S AN INTERESTING STORY.

DID GARNER A LOT OF INTEREST BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE STORY AND THE ONGOING CONCERNS ABOUT GENTRIFICATION IN ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOODS.

ANOTHER COUNCIL STORY THIS WEEK WAS COUNCIL HAD SAID VOTING TO EXPAND AND LENGTHEN THEIR TERMS.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN ON THE BALLOT IN THE PAST.

IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S ON THE BALLOT AGAIN.

ANYTHING CHANGED FROM HISTORIC OFFERS TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN AND FAILURES THAT MIGHT CHANGE THE OUTCOME THIS TIME AROUND?

IN 2015, MEMBERS PUT ON A REFERENDUM ON THE BALLOT TO LENGTHSEN THEIR TERMS.

THE VOTERS SAID NO.

CITY COUNCIL TOOK INCREMENTAL STEPS AND IT LOOKS LIKE THEY WILL PUT IT ON THE BALLOT, IN ADDITION TO HAVING AN EIGHTH DISTRICT SEAT AND I DO THINK THIS WILL BE REALLY HARD TO GET VOTERS TO APPROVE THIS.

I THINK WHEN PEOPLE GO INTO THE BALLOT BOX, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THEY WILL SEE FOR THEMSELVES.

I DON'T SEE THE CHANGE BETWEEN 2023 AND 2015, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE MAJORITY OF COUNCIL WANTS BECAUSE.

THEY DON'T LIKE TO RUN FOR RE-ELECTION EVERY TWO YEARS.

IT TAKES A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT, AND THEY WANT A LONGER TERM.

>> IT'S A PART OF TRANSITION.

YOU HAVE A LOT OF COUNCIL MEMBERS AND THIS IS A ROLE THAT IS A PART-TIME ROLE WITH PART-TIME PAY AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE COULD DO AND SORT OF GO TO THE MEETING AT NIGHT AND WHAT WE HAVE SEEN AND IN MANY WAYS, YOU COULD SAY IT IS A FULL-TIME JOB IN TERMS OF THE VOLUME OF THE CONSTITUENT SERVICE EMAILS, NEIGHBORHOOD MEETINGS AND ALL OF THAT.

IT'S THE BIGGER QUESTION OF HOW YOU, YOU KNOW, WHAT SORT OF GOVERNMENT-- GOVERNANCE STRUCTURE DO WE WANT TO HAVE IN CHARLOTTE?

DO WE WANT TO HAVE CITIZENS WHO SHOW UP AND SUPERVISE THE CITY MANAGER, OR WHAT FULL-TIME ELECTED POLITICIANS WHO GET THEIR HANDS INTO A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

THAT'S THE LARGER QUESTION.

>> I THINK THEY LOOK AT IT, TOO, IF THEY HAVE TO RUN EVERY TWO YEARS, THERE'S AN IMPACT ON POLICY BECAUSE LIKE THEY'RE GOING TO BE SO BUSY CAMPAIGNING AND THAT'S ONE ARGUMENT THEY MAKE AS WELL.

THEY CAN HAVE MORE CONTINUITY AND ELECTION FOR THE NEXT.

I AGREE.

IT'S DIFFICULT TO SEE HOW VOTERS ARE GOING TO AGREE TO HOLD THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS ACCOUNTABLE LESS.

>> A COUPLE OF INTERESTING THINGS.

COUNCIL MAJORITY DID APPROVE THIS.

WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT A LOT-- THE VOTE WAS 6-4 WITH ONE ABSENT.

>> YEAH, THE MAYOR CAME OUT AND SAID THAT'S NOT A VERY STRONG MANDATE.

>> NO.

>> ON SOME OF THIS.

>> YEAH.

THERE IS SOME DIVISION WITHIN THE COUNCIL, ITSELF, ON WHETHER THIS IS A GOOD IDEA AND IT'S NOT ALONG POLITICAL AND PARTY LINES WE HAVE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS VOTING AGAINST THIS AS A MEASURE.

YOU KNOW, HOW DOES COUNCIL SELL THIS TO THE VOTERS IF COUNCIL, ITSELF, IS NOT ONE VOICE IN SUPPORT OF A MEASURE LIKE THIS?

IT BEGS THE QUESTION.

>> MALCOLM GRAHAM, A DEMOCRAT, WAS ONE OF THE NO VOTES.

HE WAS ONE OF THE FOUR.

HE DIDN'T NECESSARILY SAY HE THOUGHT IT WAS A BAD IDEA.

HE SAID, LOOK, I'M NOT SURE WHO IS GOING TO BE SELLING THIS TO THE PUBLIC, BECAUSE IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THE CITY TRADITIONALLY TURNS TO THE BUSINESS ALLIANCE ON THE BOND CAMPAIGN.

THEY TURN TO THE BUSINESS ALLIANCE EARLY ON ON THE TRANSIT TAX.

AND MALCOLM GRAHAM WAS SAYING I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHO IS GOING TO BE THE PERSON SELLING THIS TO THE PUBLIC BECAUSE THE CITY, ITSELF, CAN'T DO THAT.

SO HE WAS SAYING, LOOK, THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANYONE REALLY TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, IT'S GOING TO FAIL.

>> THE CASE TO EXPAND COUNCIL I THINK IS-- IT'S DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN THE PAST.

THAT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT MORE UNDERSTANDABLE TO THE PUBLIC.

A CITY GROWING AS QUICKLY AS WE ARE MAY NEED ANOTHER COUNCIL MEMBER TO REPRESENT EVERYBODY FAIRLY.

CAN THEY SPLIT THIS INTO TWO PARTS?

CAN THEY DO ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER?

CAN THEY COMBINE THEM TOGETHER IN THE HOPES OF ONE DRAGGING THE OTHER ONE ALONG?

I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THE ACTUAL MECHANICS OF WHATEVER WHATEVER IS ON THE BALLOT, ITSELF?

ANYBODY KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION AT THIS POINT?

I GUESS NOT.

>> NO.

I'M NOT SURE.

THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I THINK THEY CAN SPLIT IT.

I'M NOT CERTAIN.

BUT THEY HAVEN'T GOTTEN THAT FAR IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF DECIDING HOW THEY WOULD SHOW UP ON THE BALLOT.

I'M NOT SURE.

I DO THINK, JEFF, THIS AN EIGHTH DISTRICT MEMBER SEAT WOULD HAVE A MUCH BETTER CHANCE OF VOTERS SAYING YES.

BUT THEN IS THAT NOT ENOUGH TO CARRY FOUR-YEAR TERMS ACROSS THE FINISH LINE?

I'M NOT SURE.

ONCE PEOPLE SEE LONGER TERMS, YOU WILL HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE LOOK TO VOTE NO.

>> WE WILL FIND OUT COME NOVEMBER IF THIS HAD IG IS ON THE BALLOT.

BY THE WAY, SPEAKING OF CITY GROWTH, DANIELLE, YOU WROTE A STORY THIS WEEK ABOUT CHARLOTTE NOT JUST GROWING BUT GROWING IN A NON-TRADITIONAL WAY, PATTERNS THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN IN THE PAST.

TALK ABOUT THAT IF YOU DON'T MIND.

>> YEAH.

SO WHAT I LOOKED AT WAS THE PATTERNS THAT WE'VE HAD IN THE CITY THAT HAVE LONG DEFINED THE GEOGRAPHY OF INEQUITY AND RACE AND THAT IS CALLED THE CRESCENT AND THE WEDGE.

THE CRESCENT HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, THE MORE WEST AND EAST OF CHARLOTTE, WHERE TRADITIONALLY LOW INCOME AND MINORITY POPULATIONS WERE LOCATED DUE TO GENTRIFICATION AND HISTORICAL FACTORS AND THEN YOU HAD THE WEDGE, SOUTHEAST, SOUTH CHARLOTTE MAJORITY WHITE AREAS, BUT WHAT I FOUND IS INTERESTING IS REALLY, GENTRIFICATION AND THE RISING PRICES DUE TO DEVELOPMENT IN THE CRESCENT WAS LEADING TO A DECREASE IN THE BLACK POPULATION IN MANY OF THESE HISTORICAL BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS AND THEN, YOU KNOW, ON THE CONVERTS ABOUT SEEING SUBURBAN AREAS GETTING MUCH MORE DIVERSE, PLACES LIKE STEELE CREEK, MALLARD CREEK, A LOT OF AREAS OVER BY THE UNIVERSITY, SO ALL THE WAY SOUTH, ALL THE WAY NORTH, EVEN FAR WEST, OVER BY BELMONT.

SO I THINK IT'S REALLY SORT OF CHALLENGING LEADERS TO BOTH, YOU KNOW, THEY STILL WANT TO ADDRESS HISTORIC DISPARITIES IN THE CRESCENT.

I THINK THEY WOULD LIKE TO STOP THE DISPLACEMENT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME HOW TO ADDRESS THE GROWING NEEDS IN THOSE FRINGE AREAS.

>> YEAH.

HERE'S ANOTHER CHANGE THAT'S HAPPENING PERHAPS OR COULD BE HAPPENING IN CHARLOTTE SOON, NOT REALLY CITY COUNCIL STORY.

TONY, YOUR STORY ABOUT THE COURT CASE THAT COULD CHANGE HOW ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOODS CAN OR CAN'T DEFEND THOSE DEED RESTRICTIONS THAT OFTEN LIMIT HOW GROWTH HAPPENS IN THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS.

AGAIN, IT'S SOMETHING THAT COULD AFFECT CHARLOTTE NEIGHBORHOODS, A LOT OF CHARLOTTE NEIGHBORHOODS, EVEN THOUGH THE COURT CASE INVOLVED ONE, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

A LOT OF NEIGHBORHOODS AND THE CHARLOTTE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS ARE HAVE BEEN PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION TO THIS CASE THAT RELATES TO HOW YOU ENFORCE DEED RESTRICTIONS.

THESE ARE RESTRICTIONS THAT ARE PUT ON PROPERTY THAT WAS DEVELOPED DECADES AGO.

A LOT OF TIMES, THE FAMOUS DEED RESTRICTIONS ARE THE ONES THAT FROM A CENTURY AGO THAT SAYS ONLY WHITES CAN LIVE ON THIS LAND AND IT HAS BEEN ENFORCEABLE I FOR A LONG TIME, BUT SOME OF THE OTHER RESTRICTIONS AS FAR AS HOW YOU DEVELOP PROMPT ON THE LAND, REMAIN, HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS, SET PACBACKS.

A LOT OF NEIGHBORHOODS LIKE MYERS PARK AND EASTOVER THOUGHT THEY MIGHT BE IMMUNE FROM THE 2040 PLAN WHICH ALLOWED DUPLEXES AND TRIPLEXES IN SOME OF THESE NEIGHBORHOODS.

THEY THOUGHT THEY MIGHT BE IMMUNE BECAUSE OF THE DEED RESTRICTIONS PROHIBITED THOSE.

THE NORTH CAROLINA SUPREME COURT CAME OUT IN DECEMBER AND SAID ACTUALLY, THOSE RESTRICTIONS ARE NO LONGER VALID OR ENFORCEABLE I EITHER.

SO A LOT OF NEIGHBORS IN CHARLOTTE AREND WOULDERRING WHAT THAT MEANS FOR DEVELOPMENT.

IS IT GOING TO ACCELERATE HIGHER DENSITY DEVELOPMENT, BIGGER MANSIONS, YOU KNOW, ON SOME OF THESE LOTS AND WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF TEARDOWNS AND I THINK A LOT OF QUESTIONS REALLY ABOUT HOW CHARLOTTE GROWS WHICH IS REALLY ONE OF THE BIG NARRATIVES WITH CHARLOTTE OVER THE LAST DECADES.

>> I'M NOT REALLY CONCERNED HOW LARGE I CAN BUILD MY MANSION WITH THESE RULES.

[LAUGHTER] ALONG WITH THOSE RULES, THERE WILL BE A LOT OF MOVING PARTS.

CITY COUNCIL TALKED ABOUT THE TRANSIT TAX THIS WEEK.

IT'S ON THEIR LEGISLATIVE AGENDA, BUT STEVE, YOU SAY IT'S NOT AS SPECIFIC AS IT COULD BE AND THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY HELP IT, YOU KNOW, HELP THE WHOLE PLAN IN TERMS OF COMPROMISE, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

THE PLAN, OF COURSE, WITH WHAT THE CITY WANTS TO DO IS INCREASE THE SALES TAX BY A PENNY TO PAY FOR TRANSIT.

THAT SPECIFIC LANGUAGE ISN'T IN THE LEGISLATIVE AGENDA.

I THINK IT JUST TALKS KIND OF MORE BROADLY ABOUT NEW REVENUE, POSSIBLY A NEW TAX.

BUT JEFF, YOU KNOW, THE KEY THING IS THEY PASSED AN AGENDA.

THAT'S WORDS ON PAPER.

>> UH-HUH.

>> TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN, YOU HAVE TO GO TO RALEIGH AND SIT IN PHIL BERGER AND TIM MOORE'S OFFICE AND HAVE A REAL CONVERSATION.

PUTTING IT ON PAPER DOESN'T DO A LOT.

THE CITY HASN'T TAKEN THAT IMPORTANT STEP OF ACTUALLY SITTING DOWN WITH REPUBLICANS IN RALEIGH AND SAYING, WHAT WOULD YOU SUPPORT?

WHAT DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD DO?

AND I DON'T SEE ANY SIGNS OF THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN ANYTIME SOON.

>> TIM MOORE, OF COURSE, THE HOUSE SPEAKER, WHO SAID A COUPLE WEEKS AGO IN CHARLOTTE THAT HE DIDN'T SUPPORT MUCH OF WHAT CHARLOTTE WANTED TO FUND WITH THAT TRANSIT TAX.

YOU ALSO WROTE A STORY, STEVE, A COUPLE WEEKS AGO ABOUT HORSE TRADING SOME OF THAT FUNDING FOR SOMETHING THAT RALEIGH DOES WANT.

ANY TRACTION AT ALL TO THE IDEA OF USING THE TRANSIT TAX AT LEAST INITIALLY TO BUILD MORE LANES ON I-77?

>> YEAH.

THIS WAS JUST AN IDEA I CAME UP WITH.

[LAUGHTER] >> A TRUE WAY.

[LAUGHTER] [ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ] >> I'M SORRY.

TRANSIT AND ROADS AND USE SALES TAX MONEY TO PAY FOR THE I-77 TOLL LANES, HAVE THE STATE PAY THEM BACK AND YOU KNOW, SO FAR THERE'S BEEN NO INDICATION.

THE CITY HAS HAD-- THE CITY MADE AN EFFORT OR FLOATED THE IDEA OF USING SOME OF SALES TAX MONEY TO BUILD SOME ROAD PROJECTS EARLY ON BUT TO NOT REALLY CHANGE THE OVERALL SCOPE OF THE PLAN.

THE CITY SEEMS TO BE REALLY STICKING WITH ITS ORIGINAL PLAN MAKING ONLY SLIGHT CHANGES.

>> THAT'S THE KIND OF-- GO GO AHEAD, DANIELLE.

>> I THINK IT'S A PHILOSOPHICAL DIFFERENCE.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT KIND OF COMPROMISE THEY COME TO.

YOU HAVE TO THINK LIKE THE CITY HAS THIS GOAL ON HALF OF ALL TRIPS TO BE TAKEN BY SOMETHING OTHER THAN THE SINGLE OCCUPANCY VEHICLE.

THEY WANT TO GET PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR CARS AND INTO PUBLIC TRANSIT, BIKE LANES, ET CETERA, AND YOU HAVE SPEAKER MOORE COMING OUT A MONTH OR SO AGO AND SAYING WE NEED TO FOCUS MORE ON ROADS.

THEY WILL SPEND SOME MONEY ON ROADS.

THE VAST MAJORITY IS ON OTHER MODES OF TRANSIT.

IT WILL BE A DIFFICULT THING TO RESOLVE WHEN YOU HAVE THESE TWO DIFFERENT VIEWS ON HOW CONGESTION SHOULD BE ADDRESSED.

>> I WILL SAY, IT DOES SEEM LIKE IT'S AN OBVIOUS SOLUTION.

IF RALEIGH IS SAYING WE WANT YOU TO BUILD ROADS AND CHARLOTTE IS SAYING WE WOULD LIKE A TAX FOR TRANSIT AND TAX FOR OTHER NEEDS TO COME TOGETHER AND DO A LITTLE BIT OF BOTH.

I TALKED TO BRAXTON WINSTON, THE MAYOR PRO TEM, ON WCNC, AND SAID WOULD YOU SUPPORT SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHERE YOU WOULD SUPPORT ROAD BUILDING?

HE SAID, ABSOLUTELY, WE WOULD TAKE A LOOK AT THAT MAYBE THERE MAY BE A WARMING TOWARD THAT IDEA.

IF THEY WANT TO GET IT DONE, IF LOCAL LEADERS WANT TO GET IT DONE, THEY NEED TO EMBRACE A ROAD STRATEGY THE WAY THEY HAVEN'T BEFORE.

>> AND THAT'S GOOD, I SUPPOSE.

YOU HAVE TO GET INTO THE CONVERSATION WITH ONE OFFER ONE SIDE TO THE OTHER.

THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE BEGINNING OF WHAT ULTIMATELY MAY OR MAY NOT RESULT IN A TRANSIT TAX OR TRANSIT TAX VOTE, BUT THE TALKING IS WHERE THAT ALL STARTS, I SUPPOSE.

AND YOU TALK ABOUT TOLL LANES THIS WEEK HERE IN CHARLOTTE.

ANOTHER STEP TOWARD THE POSSIBILITY OF THOSE TOLL LANES ON 77 TO BEING SOUTH CAROLINA STATE LINE.

STEVE, YOU COVERED THAT MEETING.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

THIS WAS THE CHARLOTTE REGIONAL TRANSPORTATION PLANNING ORGANIZATION.

THEY TOOK A VOTE THIS WEEK TO STUDY THE PROPOSAL MADE BY SENTRA, THE FIRM THAT BUILT AND MANAGES THE I-7 NORTH TOLL LANES AND CENTRAL WANTS TO DO THE SAME THING FOR I-77 SOUTH.

THOSE REGIONAL PLANNERS VOTED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS STUDY.

NOW, THE WAY-QUICK POLL WORKS IS THE CITY OF CHARLOTTE'S VOTE IS WEIGHTED 45%.

SO ONCE CITY COUNCIL MEMBER ED DRIGGS SAID HE WAS GOOD WITH THIS, IT WAS A DONE DEAL.

THERE'S A LOT OF INTENSE OPPOSITION FROM THE OTHER MEMBERS.

YOU HAD A LOT OF TOWNS, DAVIDSON, CORNELIUS, HUNTERSVILLE, PINEVILLE SAID ABSOLUTELY NOT.

THEY WERE REALLY PUSHING TRANSPORTATION LEADERS TO COME UP WITH SOME OTHER PLAN.

AND WHEN YOU LISTEN TO THE MEETING, THE STATE TRANSPORTATION PLANNERS WERE TRYING TO STEER THEM TOWARD THE PRIVATE-PUBLIC PARTNERSHIP BECAUSE IT TAKES-- IT REMOVES AND THEY'RE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR IT ANYMORE.

IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING THAT THE NO VOTES WERE MORE-- WERE VERY POINTED.

>> YEAH.

THEY WOULD LIKE SOMEONE ELSE TO TAKE THE POLITICAL HEAT, I SUPPOSE.

THIS IS NOT A QUESTION OF IF.

IT'S A QUESTION OF WHEN, RIGHT?

THERE'S NO PLAN TO EXPAND 77 AT ALL IN THE FUTURE UNLESS IT'S WITH TOLL LANES RIGHT NOW, CORRECT?

>> IT'S GOING TO BE DONE WITH TOLL LANES.

THAT'S BEEN A LONG-STANDING POLICY OF THE CITY OF CHARLOTTE GOING BACK TO I THINK 2007.

THE QUESTION IS, DO WE TURN TO A PRIVATE COMPANY TO BUILD THEM, OR DO WE HAVE THE STATE BUILD THEM?

AND LIKE I SAID, THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION PLANNERS REALLY PRESENTING THE ABSOLUTE KIND OF WORST CASE SCENARIO OF HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE IF WE BUILT IT WITH JUST ENTIRELY PUBLIC MONEY BECAUSE IT DOES SEEM THEY WANT TO STEER THIS PROJECT TOWARD THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND YOU HAD THE REPRESENTATIVES OF THE TOWNS SAYING DO BETTER.

TRY HARDER.

COME UP WITH ANOTHER PLAN.

ESSENTIALLY SAYING DON'T BE SO DEFEATESTIST.

AS FOR NOW, WE'RE ONE STEP CLOSER TO THE PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP FOR I-77.

>> THE DIFFERENCE FOR DRIVERS IS LOWER TOLLS.

THE STATE CONSTRUCTED TOLL LANES DON'T CHARGE AS MUCH AS THE PRIVATELY FUNDED ONES.

THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE THAT WE HAVE SEEN FROM HERE TO LAKE NORMAN VERSUS THE TOLL LANES OUT IN MONROE AND THAT SORT OF THING.

INTERESTING QUESTION AND ONE THAT'S FAR FROM RESOLUTION RIGHT NOW.

HEY, CATS DECIDED TO BUY BUSES.

SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA.

NOT SO GOOD IDEA IF YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT POLLUTION AND CONVERSION TO ELECTRIC BUSES.

WHERE DO WE START ON THIS DECISION BY CATS TO GO WITH THESE HYBRIDS VERSUS ELECTRIC BUSES RIGHT NOW?

>> AGREED THAT COUNCIL VOTED THIS WEEK, KIND OF A CLOSE VOTE TO BUY I THINK IT WAS AN ADDITIONAL 24 HOURS.

HALF OF THEM ELECTRIC AND HALF OF THEM HYBRID WOULD BE DIESEL AND THERE WAS SOME CONCERN.

WE'RE BUILDING THIS UNDERGROUND BUS STATION.

WHY ARE WE CONTINUING TO BUY BUSES THAT USE DIESEL?

WON'T THAT BE HARMFUL?

CATS SAID LOOK, WE HAVE TO BUY THE BUSES.

WE CAN'T CHARGE ELECTRIC BUSES TO THE EXTENT TO MAKE THEM VIABLE AND RELIABLE.

SO COUNCIL VOTED NARROWLY TO GO AHEAD AND APPROVE THAT.

SUSTAIN CHARLOTTE, WHICH IS AN ENVIRONMENTAL GROUP THAT WANTS THE ALL EEK LICK FLEET AND THEY WANT TO SEE THAT AS CHARLOTTE PROMISED TO DO >> I WILL SAY A YEAR AGO UNDERGROUND WHEN THE BUS STATION WAS BEING DEBATED AND THERE WAS QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER IT MAKES SENSE TO PUT DIESEL BUSES UNDERGROUND, THE PREVIOUS CATS CEO SAID OFF THE CUFF DURING THE MEETING, ALL OUR FLEET WILL BE ELECTRIC AT THAT TIME.

YOU KNOW, WHEN HE SAID THAT A FEW MONTHS AGO, IT SEEMED LIKE AN UNREALISTIC PROMISE BECAUSE CATS HAS VERY FEW ELECTRIC BUSES TODAY, BUT THAT WAS ENOUGH TO KIND OF PLACATE COUNCIL MEMBERS.

THEY WENT ALONG.

A FEW MONTHS LATER, THE CITY HAS GONE BACK ON THAT PLEDGE AND PROMICE AND LIKE TONY SAID, WELL, THERE ARE SOME COUNCIL MEMBERS WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS.

BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, CITY STAFF KIND OF WORKED THE PROCESS IN THEIR FAVOR, TOLD COUNCIL MEMBERS WHAT THEY WANTED TO HEAR AND THEN ONCE THE VOTE IS DONE, THEN YOU PRESENT THEM WITH DIFFERENT NEWS OR BAD NEWS.

>> GO AHEAD, DANIELLE.

>> QUICKLY, I WAS GOING TO SAY ELECTRIFYING THE FLEET IS A REALLY IMPORTANT PART OF THE SEAP PLAN AND I FORGET WHAT THAT STANDS FOR, BUT IT'S THE ENVIRONMENTAL PLAN THAT THEY WANT TO-- I THINK IT'S POWERED BY ZERO CARBON ENERGY SOURCES BY 2030, WHICH IS COMING UP.

IT CALLS INTO QUESTION IF THEY CAN'T ELECTRIFY THE FLEET FULLY BY THEN, IS THAT GOING TO PUT THE PLAN AT RISK?

>> THESE BUSS HAVE A SHELF LIFE OF 12 YEARS WHICH MEANS THEY'LL BE ON THE STREETS IN 2036, RIGHT?

12 YEARS FROM NOW OR SO.

INTERESTING ISSUE.

WANT TO TOUCH QUICKLY ON A COUPLE OTHER STORIES IN THE LAST COUPLE MINUTES.

SCHOOL BONDS, IT LOOKS LIKE THE VOTERS MAY HAVE A CHANCE TO VOTE ON NEARLY $3 BILLION IN SCHOOL BONDS BUT NOT AS MANY SCHOOLS WILL BE BUILT FOR THAT PARTICULAR AMOUNT OF FUNDING.

TONY, CAN YOU JUST KIND OF BRIEFLY BRING US UP TO DATE ON THAT?

>> YEAH.

LAST SPRING, CMS CAME OUT AFTER DOING A BIG STUDY AND SAYS THERE'S A LOT OF SCHOOL NEEDS, $5 BILLION WORTH OF PROJECTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THESE ARE BIG THINGS.

YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT KNOCKING DOWN PROVIDENCE HIGH SCHOOL AND REBUILDING IT.

TALKING ABOUT BUILDING SCHOOLS IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE COUNTY, SHIFTING PROGRAMS, YOU KNOW, REALLY, ALL OVER THE PLACE.

A LOT OF PARENTS ARE LOOKING AT THIS AND SAYING, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR MY CHILD?

THE ISSUE WITH BONDS IS THE COUNTY COMMISSION HAS TO VOTE TO PUT THEM ON THE BALLOT.

THERE IS A NUMBER THAT'S A LITTLE MORE REASONABLE, I GUESS, FROM THE COUNTY'S PERSPECTIVE.

AND THEY'RE LOOKING AT ABOUT $3 BILLION AND MAYBE A LITTLE BIT LESS AND SO THERE ARE ONGOING DISCUSSIONS AND ONGOING PUBLIC INFORMATION SESSIONS IN WHICH THEY'RE TRYING TO GET FEEDBACK AND CERTAINLY A LOT OF CHANGES AND THEY ARE GOING TO DICTATE BASICALLY HOW CMS BUILDS AND HAS FACILITIES GOING FORWARD OVER THE NEXT DECADE.

>> I.T.

TOUCHES A LOT OF FAMILIES IN THIS COMMUNITY.

STEVE, STATE DEMOCRATS CHANGED LEADERSHIP THIS WEEK.

THEY PICKED THE PERSON THAT THE GOVERNOR DIDN'T PICK.

TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR THE PARTY.

IF IT MEANS ANYTHING GOING INTO THE NEXT ELECTION CYCLE.

>> THIS IS REALLY FASCINATING.

FOR SO LONG, THE BIG KIND OF INTRAPARTY DEBATES OVER THE LEADERSHIP OF A PARTY HAVE BEEN IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

RIGHT?

NOW IN NORTH CAROLINA, THERE WAS THIS HUGE FIGHT, THIS HUGE SPLIT AMONG STATE DEMOCRATS.

THEY HAD A VERY DISAPPOINTING ELECTION IN 2022.

SO THE YOUNG PROGRESSIVE WING OF THE PARTY VOTED IN FAVOR OF THEIR NEW CHAIRMAN TO BE A 25-YEAR-OLD ANDERSON CLAYTON, WHO IS THE CHAIR IN PERSON COUNTY.

THEY REJECTED BOBBY RICHARD, WHO IS 73, THE FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMAN TO LEAD THE PARTY.

YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

NEARLY 50-YEAR DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF AGE AND CLAYTON IS PLEDGING TO RUN 100-COUNTY CAMPAIGN AND IT WILL BE INTERESTING BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, 2022 IS A VERY DISAPPOINTING ELECTION FOR DEMOCRATS.

THEY HAVE NOW LOST THE EIGHT PRESIDENTIAL AND SENATE RACES IN THE STATE.

THERE'S A LOT OF FRUSTRATION IN THE PARTY ABOUT HOW THINGS ARE GOING.

>> WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS, IF THAT NEW GENERATION OF LEADERSHIP REACHES OUT IN A MORE EFFECTIVE WAY TO A NEW GENERATION OF VOTERS.

ONE STORY WE DIDN'T GET TO.

ROCK HILL, THE CITY IS TEARING DOWN WHAT THE PANTHERS BILTS OUT AT THEIR SITE FOR WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A TRADING FACILITY.

CATCH A GLIMPSE OF IT WHILE YOU CAN DRIVING BY ON I-77.

THANKS, EVERYBODY, FOR JOINING US.

THANK YOU AT HOME FOR JOINING US AS WELL.

YOU CAN EMAIL US YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS AT OFF THE RECORD@WTVI.ORG.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT TIME ON OFF THE RECORD.

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