>>> THIS IS A PRODUCTION OF PBS CHARLOTTE.

>>> THIS WEEK ON "OFF THE RECORD," MECKLENBURG'S ON AGAIN, OFF AGAIN, MASK MANDATE IS OFF AGAIN, SO WILL YOU KEEP WEARING A MASK ANYWAY, AND HOW ABOUT YOUR KIDS AT SCHOOL?

A REPORT ON RACISM IN MECKLENBURG AND A ROUGH START FOR THE MAYOR'S RACE FOR EQUITY INITIATIVE.

FINDING A REPLACE FOR COMMISSIONER ELLA SCARBOROUGH, NEW ELECTION MAPS IN NORTH CAROLINA, MAYBE.

NEW CHANGES AT THE OLD EAST END MALL, SOCCER AND SECRETS AT CITY HALL.

ABOUT EASTLAND MALL.

AND NORTH CAROLINA'S SOLDIERS SHIPPING OUT TO A POSSIBLE WAR ZONE.

A LOT TO COVER NEXT ON PBS CHARLOTTE.

>>> FROM OUR PBS CHARLOTTE STUDIOS, I'M JEFF SONIER AND WE'RE "OFF THE RECORD."

TALKING ABOUT THE STORIES THAT YOU'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS WEEK AND IF YOU WATCH THE NEWS, READ THE NEWS AND LISTEN TO THE NEWS, WELL, YOU'LL RECOGNIZE THE NAMES AND FACES AROUND OUR VIRTUALLY TABLE.

WBTV, CHRISTINA FROM THE CHARLOTTE LEDGER AND KATIE FROM CHARLOTTE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS MORNING, YOU CAN JOIN THE CONVERSATION FROM HOME, JUST E-MAIL QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS TO OFFTHERECORD@WTVI.ORG.

WELL, WE HAVE THE PANDEMIC VERSION OF GROUNDHOG DAY THIS WEEK.

THE HEALTH DIRECTOR FOR THE COUNTY AND THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EMERGING FROM THE LAYER, NOT AFRAID OF THE LONG SHADOW OF COVID SO MUCH ANYMORE, AND ENDING THE MASK MANDATES THAT THEY COULD HAVE EXTENDED IF THEY CHOSE TO.

SO MUCH GOING ON.

SOMETHING YOU SHOULD CELEBRATE, BUT ALSO FEELS LIKE WE HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE.

I KNOW CHRISTINA, YOU WERE WATCHING MUCH OF THAT INTERESTING MEETING AS THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS DISCUSSED THIS EARLIER IN THE WEEK, TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT DECISION AND HOW IT ALL CAME ABOUT >> SURE.

SO I MEAN, JUST TO YOUR POINT, THEY ACTUALLY, DR. WASHINGTON, THE HEALTH DIRECTOR CALLED IT COVID RESPONSE 2.0, BEEN HERE BEFORE.

>> YEAH.

>> THE VOTE WAS UNANIMOUS, YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T OFFICIALLY TAKE EFFECT, THERE WAS A TEN-DAY WAITING PERIOD, BEFORE IT OFFICIALLY TAKES EFFECT, BUT I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOUR WORLD, BUT IN MY CORNERS, IT SEEMS THEY HAVE DROPPED IMMEDIATELY.

PEOPLE ARE, YOU KNOW, WHERE I'M GOING OUT, SEEING A LOT OF PEOPLE WITHOUT MASKS ON.

THE MEETING WAS -- A UNANIMOUS VOTE, IT WAS DEFINITELY A VERY HOT MEETING, A LOT OF SPEAKERS FROM THE PUBLIC, JUST HAVING A VERY STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT MASKS.

JUST AS WE'VE SEEN IN THIS -- THROUGHOUT THIS ENTIRE PANDEMIC.

>> YEAH, AND THE COUNTY COMMISSION DIDN'T MAKE THEIR DECISION IN A VACUUM, EITHER, THE GOVERNOR THIS, HEALTH SECRETARY, ALSO SAID THEY RECOMMEND DROPPING THESE MASK MANDATES AT CITIES AND COUNTIES, AND EVEN SCHOOL DISTRICTS, SO SOMETHING INNING WHICH AING OUT THERE, THE INFORMATION THAT THE DECISION MAKERS ARE GETTING IS OBVIOUSLY LEADING THEM TO MAKE DIFFERENT DECISIONS NOW.

IT FEELS LIKE WE'RE MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION ON THIS THING, BUT STILL A LOT OF RESISTANCE, I GUESS, TO TAKING THOSE MASKS OFF.

>>, YOU KNOW, AND IN MANY RESPECTS, THERE'S STILL A LINE IN THE SAND THERE, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU FACTOR IN WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE SCHOOLS AND EVEN IN AS MUCH AS I GUESS, COMING TO SOME CONSENSUS, AT CMS.

I MEAN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE OUT LYING AREAS, YOU CAN SEE WHERE THERE'S BEEN RATHER CONTENTIOUS BATTLE LINES DRAWN.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU KNOW, THE QUESTION IS, WHAT PAGE WILL THE LOCAL SCHOOL BOARD JUMP ON?

>> YEAH.

AND THEN NEXT WEEK, ANY THOUGHTS FROM ANYBODY ABOUT WHERE THE SCHOOL BOARD WILL LAND ON THIS ONE, GIVEN ALL OF THE NEW ADVICE THAT THEY'RE GETTING TO GO IN A DIRECTION THEY'VE GONE IN THE PAST COUPLE OF MONTHS?

>> I THINK WITH THE GOVERNOR COMING OUT AND SAYING HE RECOMMENDED A RECOMMEND REH LAXIZATION OF THE SCHOOLS FOR MUNICIPALITIES THAT IT STANDS TO REASON THEY'LL BE TAKING THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.

>> KATIE >> YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THE GOVERNOR AND LOCAL OFFICIALS HAVE ALSO SAID SEVERAL TIMES THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT THE END OF MASKS, IT'S JUST THE END OF MASK MANDATES.

AND THAT MEANS THAT IF CHILDREN OR BUSINESSES OR PARENTS WANT TO CONTINUE WEARING THEM, IF THEY FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE WEARING THEM, THEY ABSOLUTELY CAN.

IT'S ANYBODY'S GUESS TO HOW MUCH THAT WILL ACTUALLY HAPPEN HERE.

I THINK IT WILL -- IT WILL JUST BE AN INTERESTING DYNAMIC TO SEE PLAY OUT BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT OF PARENTS ARE UNEASY ABOUT THIS, YOU KNOW.

THE VACCINATION RATE AMONG ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AGED CHILDREN IS OVER 25% IN NORTH CAROLINA, VERY LOW.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE -- IT COULD BE CONTENTIOUS WHEN IT GETS DOWN TO THE SCHOOL DEBATE, BUT I THINK THEY WILL ENUP FOLLOWING GOVERNOR COOPERS RECOMMENDATION AND OTHER SCHOOL BOARDS WILL AS WELL.

>> YEAH, THE NEW COUNTY HEALTH DIRECT, TO WAS A LITTLE BIT CONFUSING, HE SAID HE WAS NOT RECOMMENDING MASK MANDATES, AS YOU MENTIONED, BUT HE RECOMMENDED WEARING A MASK, WHICH, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THERE'S A -- A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T SEE THAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MASK MANDATE AND A RECOMMENDATION TO WEAR ONE.

BUT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.

AND THAT DIFFERENCE IS WHAT WE HEARD FROM THE COUNTY COMMISSION THIS WEEK.

SPEAKING OF SCHOOLS, WE HEARD FROM THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AROUND THE SAME TIME, GOVERNOR COOPER WAS SAYING HE WAS RECOMMENDING SCHOOL BOARDS DROP THEIR MASK MANDATES, THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, IN RALEIGH, PASSING A BILL THAT ALLOWS THE PARENTS TO OPT OUT OF MANDATES EVEN IF THE SCHOOL BOARD DOES DECIDE TO CONTINUE THOSE.

SO MIXED MESSAGES, HOW MANY TIMES DO WE TALK ABOUT -- >> I'M SURPRISED THAT THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION, THE STATE SCHOOL BOARD, IF YOU WILL, HASN'T COME DOWN WITH UNILATERAL DECISION TO BE DISPENSED TO A LOT OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS ACROSS NORTH CAROLINA.

>> WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE WHERE WE'RE MOVING IS DECENTRALIZING THESE DECISIONS, EVEN MORE THAN WE HAVE SO FAR.

NOT JUST LEAVING THEM IN THE HAND OF THE SCHOOL BOARD, BUT IN THE CASE OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, LITERALLY GIVING THE PARENTS THE OPTION TO DECIDE WHETHER THEIR KIDS WEAR A MASK OR DON'T WEAR A MASK, WHICH PRETTY MUCH NEUTRALIZES ANY SORT OF MASK MANDATE TO BEGIN WITH, DOESN'T IT?

>> I'M GOING SAY YES ON THAT.

[ LAUGHTER ] RAISED AND ANSWERED, I SUPPOSE.

BUT A LOT OF INFORMATION TO PROCESS, THIS WEEK, AND MORE TO PROCESS NEXT WEEK, AS THE CMS SCHOOL BOARD AND OTHER SCHOOL BOARDS START TO MEET AND TALK ABOUT WHAT THEIR GOING TO DO BY A DISTRICT BY DISTRICT BASIS.

THIS IS THE ONE PROBLEM THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO WANT TO GO AWAY, UNFORTUNATELY.

AT THE END OF LAST WEEK, ACTUALLY, ABOUT A -- HEARD A REPORT, RATHER, FROM ABOUT THE HISTORY OF RACISM IN MECKLENBURG COUNTY AND HOW THAT HISTORY OF RACISM AND THE THINGS THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAD -- HAVE DONE OVER THE YEARS HAVE LED TO WHERE WE ARE TODAY, AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT TODAY.

STEVE, I DON'T KNOW THAT THE REPORT TELLS US ANYTHING THAT WE DIDN'T ALREADY KNOW, BUT DID SERVE AS KIND OF A VALUABLE HISTORY LESSON, I GUESS, RIGHT?

>> I THINK IT DID, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S KIND OF A MIXED MESSAGE FROM WHERE THE MAYOR'S INITIATIVE THAT WORKED WITH THE CHARLOTTE -- WHAT USED TO BE THE CHARLOTTE CHAMBER AND THE LIKE, YOU KNOW, BRING SOMEBODY IN, WHO ENDS UP HAVING TO RESIGN BECAUSE OF A PAST CONTROVERSY IN OHIO, SO, YOU KNOW, AND IN THAT REGARD, IT SEEMS AS THOUGH WHILE IT'S WELL-INTENDED, IT COULD BE SPUTTERING COMING OUT OF THE STARTING GATE, JEFF >> YEAH, THAT MAYOR'S EQUITY INITIATIVE IS SEPARATE FROM THE COUNTY'S SIMILAR EFFORTS, I SUPPOSE, BUT IN THE MINORITY COMMUNITY, IT'S ALL LOOKED AT TOGETHER AS A PACKAGE, AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SEE ON THE ONE HAND, A REPORT THAT REPORTS IN-DEPTH ON WHAT'S HAPPENED OVER THE DECADES, AND ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU SEE A STUMBLE OUT OF THE STARTING GATOR, AS -- GAIT, AS YOU MENTIONED, MAKING AMENDS OR INVESTING IN THE SAME COMMUNITIES THAT USED TO BE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST.

>> AND REACH AROUND THE DIALOGUE >> YEAH.

BUT THE -- AGAIN, A LOT OF THE DIALOGUE THIS WEEK, HAS BEEN SURROUNDED THE CONTROVERSY ON THE NEW APPOINTEE THAT IS NO LONGER THE A POINT TEE, I'M NOT SURE THIS WEEK ACCOMPLISHED ANY OF THAT AT ALL.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE PROCESS GOES FROM HERE.

DO YOU HAVE A SENSE OF WHAT HAPPENS NEXT WITH ALL OF THIS?

>> I THINK IT'S BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD IN A LOT OF WAYS.

YOU KNOW, IN SOME REGARDS, PERHAPS A BETTER VETTING OF WHOMEVER COMES IN TO THAT SITUATION.

AND HOW DOES THE FOLKS THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THAT, FROM BOTH THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT, WALK AWAY WITHOUT HAVING ANY EGG ON THEIR FACE?

>> YEAH.

KIND OF RAISES THE QUESTION ABOUT TRANSPARENCY, TOO.

WHETHER WHEN THE CITY IS INVESTING $250 MILLION OVER TIME, TO BE SPENT ON EQUITY, EQUITY INITIATIVES, WHEN THE DECISIONS ON WHO'S LEADING THOSE EFFORTS AREN'T BEING MADE BY A PUBLIC BODY, BUT BY A CHAMBER OF COMMERCE BUSINESS-LED BODY.

IT BEGS THE QUESTION OF WHETHER CITY COUNCIL STEPS IN AND TAKES A LARGER ROLE IN SOME OF THIS LEADERSHIP GOING FORWARD.

>> WELL, AND IT USES THE WORD MAYOR, YEAH, YOU HAVE TO ASK THAT QUESTION.

>> CHRISTINA.

>> YEAH, I WAS GOING TO SAY, I THINK IT'S BEEN CONFUSING FOR THE PUBLIC THIS WEEK, THE MAYOR HAS HER NAME ON IT, BUT THE MAYOR IS -- KIMBERLY HENDERSON, AND SO I JUST, YOU KNOW, THE MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC, I THINK IT'S BEEN CONFUSING TO FIGURE OUT, I GUESS, WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE VETTING AND THEN WHEN WE DID, YOU KNOW -- IT WAS -- IT WAS NOT REALLY MADE CLEAR HOW THE VETTING WAS DONE, AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH THEY WERE ACTUALLY AWARE OF WHEN THEY SELECTED HER FOR THAT POSITION.

>> YEAH, THE PROCESS SEEMS A LITTLE MUDDLED AT BEST AND I GUESS, THE STUMBLE OUT OF THE STARTING GATE WILL HOPEFULLY LEAD TO A CLEARER PATH GOING FORWARD, BOTH ON THE CITY COUNCIL'S PART AND IN TERMS OF OVERSIGHT AND TRANSPARENCY, AND ON THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY'S PART, IN TERMS OF AS YOU MENTIONED, THE VETTING OF PEOPLE WHO ARE EXPECTED TO LEAD SOMETHING THAT IS OBVIOUSLY GOING TO BE VERY HIGH-PROFILE, YOU KNOW, FOR A VERY LONG TIME, HERE IN THE COMMUNITY.

SPEAKING OF HIGH-PROFILE, EASTLAND MALL IS KIND OF HAND IN HAND WITH THE SUCCESS, THE COMING SUCCESS OF THE MLS SOCCER TEAM, WE HEARD THIS WEEK ABOUT SOME CHANGES, PHYSICAL CHANGES THAT ARE HAPPENING AT THE OLD MALL SITE ITSELF.

AND KATIE, A LOT OF THOSE CHANGES CAUGHT FOLKS OFF GUARD OUT THERE AT WHAT'S BEEN FOR THE MOST PART AN ABANDONED 80-ACRE SITE FOR A LONG TIME, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, AND SO, THE EASTLAND MALL FLEA MARKET AND SKATE PARK WERE A COUPLE OF KIND MAKESHIFT INITIATIVES THAT WENT UP, YEARS AGO, AND, YOU KNOW, EASTLAND HAS LARGELY BEEN ABANDONED FOR YEARS SO I THINK MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY WANTED TO PUT THE SPACE TO USE, QUITE FRANKLY, THESE ARE BOTH EXTREMELY POPULAR KIND OF DAILY EFFORTS GOING ON, ESPECIALLY THE PARK IS SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN SEE PEOPLE AT ALL THE TIME.

BUT THE FLEA MARKET IS SOMETHING THAT STARTED IN 2015, THEY HAD A LEASED FACILITY, THEY TAKE -- IT IS PACKED EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND.

THEY -- THEY WERE GIVEN A HEADS UP THAT THE LEASE WOULD EXPIRE WITH THE CITY AS, YOU KNOW, AS THE DEVELOPERS BROKE GROUND ON THE NEW EASTLAND REDEVELOPMENT.

BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S NOT HARD.

YOU KNOW?

THESE FOLKS HAVE MADE A LIVELIHOOD OUT OF SELLING THEIR GOODS EVERY WEEKEND FROM, YOU KNOW, FRESH PRODUCE, TO, YOU KNOW, PREPARED FOODS, TO CLOTHING AND ELECTRONIC, AND TO HAVE THAT IS PRETTY -- I'VE BEEN THERE A COUPLE OF TIMES AND IT'S REALLY SOMETHING TO SEE.

SO THE CITY HAS MADE NO SECRET OF THE FACT THAT THIS WAS ALWAYS THE PLAN TO LET THE LEASE EXPIRE.

AND I THINK THAT THERE WAS JUST A LITTLE BIT OF HOPE IN THE COMMUNITY THAT THERE WOULD BE SOMETHING ELSE WAITING FOR THEM.

YOU KNOW?

SOME OTHER PUBLIC SPACE, PERHAPS, TO USE MOVING FORWARD.

AS FOR THE SKATE PARK, AGAIN, IT'S -- IT'S JUST A HUGE QUESTION, THE ORGANIZERS OF THAT HAVE INVESTED TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS INTO THIS REALLY COOL FACILITY THAT HAS, YOU KNOW, RAMPS AND OBVIOUSLY, NOT A SKATER, SO I CAN'T SPEAK TO EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID.

BUT IT'S A SHAME.

>> IT SPEAKS TO HOW LONG WE'VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR SOMETHING TO HAPPEN OUT AT EASTLAND MALL, THESE MAKESHIFT OPERATIONS, THE FLEA MARKET AND THE SKATE PARK HAVE BEEN IN EXISTENCE FOR 6, 7, 8 YEARS, THE ESTABLISHED NORM BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN SO MUCH INACTIVITY OUT AT THAT SITE FOR SO LONG BEFORE THIS PROJECT THAT'S NOW ABOUT TO START --.

>> AND REMEMBER WHEN THERE WAS TALK OF PUTTING A MOVIE STUDIO THERE.

>> AND A SKI SLOPE AND ALL OF THE, YOU KNOW, TRIED AND FAILED PLANS.

THIS PARTICULAR PLAN IS GETTING CLOSE TO BREAKING GROUND, BUT IT DOESN'T BREAK GROUND IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM.

KATIE, YOU'VE BEEN OUR DAVID WHISPERER FOR THE TIMES YOU'VE BEEN ON THE SHOW HERE, BUT TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THE MLS HEADQUARTERS, THE TEAM HEADQUARTERS THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE EASTLAND, WOUND UP NOT BEING IN EASTLAND AND SOME OF THE DISCUSSIONS THAT WENT ON BEHIND THE CLOSED DOORS THAT LED TO THAT DECISION AND SOME OF THE OTHER SOCCER AND EASTLAND MALL DECISIONS?

>> YEAH, SO THE DECISION NOT TO PUT THE MLS HEADQUARTERS HAPPENED SORT OF QUIETLY AND SORT OF NONDRAMATICALLY >> YEAH >> HAVING THE HEADQUARTERS AT EASTLAND WAS, YOU KNOW, THIS SORT OF REALLY SEXY DRAW, OBVIOUSLY, DAVID PEPPER AND HIS CREW HAD INVESTED A LOT OF MONEY IN THIS FACILITY, THERE WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS THERE, ETCETERA.

IN REALITY, I THINK THAT MAYBE THE FISCAL PRESENCE OF THE HEADQUARTERS WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN AS SPECTACULAR AND MAYBE WE ORIGINALLY THOUGHT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN.

SO THOSE PLANS SHIFTED, I CAN'T EVEN REMEMBER WHAT YEAR IS IT ANYWAY?

I THINK THAT'S IN 2018 OR 2020 OR SOMETHING.

>> RIGHT.

>> SO THEY SCALED BACK THE PLANS FOR THE CORPORATE PRESENCE AT MLS BUT THEY WILL STILL HAVE THEIR SOCCER FACILITY THERE.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S STILL GOING TO BE A HUGE SOCCER PRESENCE AT EASTLAND, FROM OUTDOOR, YOU KNOW, PRACTICE FIELDS, TO I BELIEVE THEY'RE GOING TO DO A PRACTICE FIELD, I MAY BE WRONG ON THAT, BUT THE MLS HEADQUARTERS THEMSELVES WILL BE AT BANK OF AMERICA STADIUM.

SO THE INVESTMENT KIND OF, THE VISION HAS SHIFTED OVER THE YEARS.

BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE SOCCER OUT THERE.

IT'S JUST ONE COMPONENT OF A PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL INVESTMENT AND THAT FACILITY OR IN THE REDEVELOPMENT, RATHERER, THAT WILL INCLUDE EVERYTHING FROM, YOU KNOW, A GROCERY STORE, TO RESIDENTS, TO PARK SPACE, TO, YOU KNOW, OFFICE SPACE, ETCETERA.

SO LIKE YOU SAID, IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME COMING, IT FEELS LIKE THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF STARTS AND STOPS IN THE EASTLAND DEVELOPMENT PLAN, BUT NOW THEY'RE GOING TO BREAK GROUND SOON, WHICH IS AN EXCITING TIME FOR THE EAST SIDE.

>> YEAH, WE WILL BE AMAZED GIVEN THE LENGTH OF THIS PROCESS.

ONE OTHER THING I FELT WAS INTERESTED IN THE REVELATIONS ABOUT THOSE BEHIND CLOSED DOORS TALKS, THE MONEY THAT THE CITY WAS GOING TO SPEND, A LOT OF THE FOLKS WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE BRANDING OF THE TEAM WAS CHARLOTTE AND NOT CAROLINA BECAUSE I THINK THAT THE FEELING WAS CITY HALL MONEY, CITY TAXPAYER DOLLARS, OUGHT TO HAVE CHARLOTTE'S NAME ON THE JERSEY AND ON THE TEAM ITSELF.

I GUESS THAT IS AN IMPORTANT, ALTHOUGH, KIND OF ANYBODY LOUSE ADVANTAGE TO, YOU KNOW, HAVING, YOU KNOW, SOME FINANCIAL SAY IN THAT PARTICULAR TEAM'S FINANCES, AND THE HELP THAT THE CITY IS OFFERING, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, THAT DOES SEEM TO HAVE BEEN A PRIORITY FOR THEM, ALTHOUGH AT THE END OF THE DAY, I'M NOT SURE WHAT CITY COUNCIL SAID ABOUT THAT MLS TEAM NAME WOULD HAVE AFFECTED WHAT THE TEAM NAME ENDED UP BEING.

HE WOULD HAVE DONE -- MADE HIS OWN DECISION REGARDLESS.

HOWEVER, OF COURSE CHARLOTTE DID END UP IN THE NAME, THEY WANTED TO HAVE THEIR STAMP ON IT, CHARLOTTE IS INVESTING ALL OF THIS MONEY IN THE TEAM, AND, YOU KNOW, THE FACILITIES AND THEY WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT IT'S A CHARLOTTE-BASED THING.

>> YEAH.

AND IT MAKES YOU WONDER WITH DAVID' INVESTMENTS IN SOUTH CAROLINA FOR THE CAROLINA PANTHERS, I GUESS THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT SOCCER THAT'S DOESN'T FOLLOW THEM ACROSS THE STATE LIKE TO SOUTH CAROLINA AT SOME POINT AS WELL.

WE'VE GOT A CHANCE TO GO UP TO CHESTERFIELD COUNTY, VIRGINIA, RECENTLY TO ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT.

OLD MALL, THEY HAVE VOLLEYBALL THERE, IT GIVES YOU A SENSE OF WHAT EASTLAND COULD BECOME, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE EASTLAND MALL SITE COULD BECOME IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS, BASED ON WHAT THAT PARTICULAR DEVELOPER HAS DONE IN A SIMILAR SITUATION UP IN VIRGINIA, I GUESS EVERYBODY WINS IF EASTLAND TURNS INTO THE KIND OF THE DEVELOPMENT THAT MAKES LIFE BETTER ON THE EAST SIDE, BRINGS IN MORE TAX DOLLARS AND TAKES AN OLD ABANDONED PROPERTY AND TURNS IT INTO SOMETHING VALUABLE GOING FORWARD.

NORTH CAROLINA HAS BEEN LOOKING AT THE MAPS THAT THEY USED TO ELECT CONGRESS MEMBERS, AND THE STATE LEGISLATURE FOR MONTHS, MAYBE YEARS, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE WE FINALLY MAY HAVE HAPPENS THAT EVERYONE DOESN'T NECESSARILY AGREE ON, AT LEAST THEY CAN WORK WITH, THOUGH, FOR THIS PARTICULAR ELECTION.

I DON'T KNOW HOW CLOSELY Y'ALL HAVE WATCHED THIS, BUT ANYONE WANT TO WEIGH IN ON THE DECISION THIS WEEK, ON THE NEW REDRAWN MAPS THAT HOPEFULLY WILL BE THE MAPS WE USE FOR THE NEXT ELECTION?

>> I THINK IN SOME WAYS, A LOT OF IT RELIES ON HISTORY.

ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE RELATIONSHIP THAT THE STATE LEGISLATURE HAS HAD WITH THE COURTS IN NORTH CAROLINA, EVEN ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO WHAT WAS DECIDED IN THE FIFTH CIRCUIT OUT OF RICHMOND SEVERAL YEARS AGO AND GOT INTO THE THING ABOUT GERRYMANDERING AND THE LIKE, AND I BELIEVE THE PHRASE THAT RESONATED WITH A LOT OF THE PEOPLE, BASICALLY TALKED ABOUT HOW A LOT TO THINGS WERE DONE WITH SURGICAL PRECISION, TO DISENFRANCHISE A LOT OF VOTERS, BASED ON THAT, I THINK THERE'S SOME HISTORY AND PRECEDENT IN TERMS OF WHERE THIS THING COULD ACTUALLY GO.

>> YEAH, I READ A QUOTE LAST NIGHT, FROM A STORY ON WRAL IN RALEIGH FROM MICHAEL, WHO'S A POLITICAL SCIENTIST FROM CATAWBA COLLEGE WHO CALLED THE NEW DISTRICTS DRAWN SHOCKINGLY COMPETITIVE.

WHICH MEANS THAT -- I THINK THE WAY THAT THE NUMBERS LAY OUT, AT LEAST FOR THE CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS, YOU HAVE I GUESS SIX SEATS THAT LOOK LIKE THEY'RE GOING TO BE REPUBLICAN SEATS, YOU'VE GOT THREE OR FOUR SEATS THAT LOOK LIKE DEMOCRATIC SEATS AND FOUR SWING SEATS THAT COULD GO EITHER WAY W BASED ON THE MAPS, THAT'S A LOT DIFFERENT THAN THE LAST ROUND OF MAPS, AND I GUESS THAT, YOU KNOW, FOR THOSE WHO DON'T LIKE GERRYMANDERING, THAT REPRESENTS PROGRESS OF SOME SORT, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, BUT TO USE THE -- IT COULD ALSO BE HIGH ANXIETY, I'LL TELL YOU WHY, YOU HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF THINGS HAPPENING, GK BUTTERFIELD OUT OF THE FIRST DISTRICT WILL RUN AGAIN, EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE AN CONGRESSIONAL SEAT IN OUR STATE, THERE'S TIGHT WIRED DANCING THAT WILL HAPPEN, AS IT RELATES TO A FLUID MAP THAT CAN BE USED TO CARRY OUT THE ELECTIONS.

>> AND ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ON WHERE THIS LEAVES US, BOTH AS TO, YOU KNOW, FOR THE NEXT ELECTION AND POLITICALLY WITH THE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS IN RALEIGH CONTINUOUSLY BATTLING OVER THESE SORTS OF THINGS?

THE ONE THING I NOTICED IN PARTICULAR, ALSO, IS THAT THE NEW DISTRICTS THEY DREW FOR THEMSELVES, THE STATE LEGISLATURE, ALSO PERHAPS REDUCES THE POSSIBILITY OF THAT OLD SUPER MAJORITY AND OPENS THE POSSIBILITY OF MORE VETOES BY, YOU KNOW, BY AN OPPOSING GOVERNOR THAT WOULD ULTIMATELY STICK, BUT THOSE MAPS WILL BE TALKED ABOUT AGAIN IN COURT NEXT WEEK.

AND WE SHOULD HAVE A FINAL DECISION HOPEFULLY FOR A PRIMARY IN MAY, THAT'S THE OBJECTIVE FOR BOTH PARTIES, BUT BOTH PARTIES WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AN ADVANTAGE AS WELL.

COUNTY COMMISSION TALKED ABOUT REPLACING ELLA SCARBOROUGH, OUT ON A MEDICAL LEAVE INDEFINITELY, CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE SITUATION AND HOW THE COUNTY IS GOING TO MOVE FORWARD FROM HERE?

AND REPLACING HER ON THE BOARD?

>> SURE.

SO THE COMMISSIONERS DECIDED LAST WEEK, THAT THEY WERE GOING TO REPLACE HER BY MARCH 22nd, I BELIEVE.

YOU KNOW, IT SOUNDS LIKE EARLY ON, IN OCTOBER, MAYBE DECEMBER, SHE SORT OF SOUNDED THE FLAG THAT SHE NEEDED TO TAKE A MEDICAL LEAVE OF ABSENCE, THAT DIDN'T SEEM TO MAKE ITS WAY TO THE REST OF THE COMMISSIONERS.

AT LEAST NOT FORMALLY.

AND SO WHEN THEY TOOK UP THE ISSUE THIS PAST WEEK, THERE WAS A LOT OF DEBATE AND DISCUSSION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW TO HANDLE IT.

AND ALSO, HOW TO PAY HER, WHETHER SHE SHOULD BE -- SHE REQUESTED A PAID MEDICAL LEIGH LEAVE, I BELIEVE, A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER SHE SHOULD CONTINUE ON RECEIVING PAYMENT, SHE'S A LONG-TIME COUNTY COMMISSIONER, AND SO THERE WAS A FEELING THAT SHE, YOU KNOW, DESERVED THAT.

AND THEN OTHERS SAY, WELL, SHE'S NOT FULFILLING HER ROLE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SHE SHOULD NOT BE PAID.

SO ANYWAY, IT WAS AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION THIS WEEK.

>> ONE IS WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT ELLA'S SITUATION SPECIFICALLY, AND PART TWO IS HOW DO WE REPLACE ELLA ULTIMATELY.

THE REPLACEMENT PROCESS.

IT'S I GUESS KIND OF -- I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WOULD CALL IT MAKING IT UP AS WE GO ALONG, BUT WE DON'T OFTEN GET OURSELVES IN THESE SITUATIONS IN OUR ELECTED BOARDS, CAN WE TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW SHE WOULD BE REPLACED AND WHAT THAT IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE FROM US SITTING ON THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN, AT THE COUNTY COMMISSION?

>> I THINK IT'S A TWO-PRONGED PROGRESS AND I COULD BE SLIGHTLY INACCURATE ON THIS ONE, BUT I THINK THERE'S INFLUENCE FROM THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AS WELL AS THOSE WHO ARE SITTING ON THE COUNTY COMMISSION, BUT PERHAPS THE BIGGER QUESTION IN ALL OF THIS COMES DOWN TO TWO WORDS AND THAT IS WHERE'S ELLA?

>> YEAH, A LOT OF FOLKS WONDERING ABOUT HER HEALTH RIGHT NOW.

AND HER WELL-BEING RIGHT NOW.

I KNOW A LITTLE BIT OF THE -- THE BREAKDOWN OF THE PROCESS, I BELIEVE, THE COUNTY COMMISSION IS GOING TO CHOOSE 7 CANDIDATES THAT WILL BE ABLE TO APPLY FOR THE JOB, BETWEEN NOW AND NEXT WEEK.

AND THOSE 7 CANDIDATES WILL BE INTERVIEWED, PUBLICLY, AND VETTED PUBLICLY.

I WONDER, AND I MAY AT ONE POINT TALKED ABOUT ONLY REACHING OUT TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE SERVED BEFORE.

THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE THE CASE IN THE ACTUAL PROCESS.

BUT ANY THOUGHT ON HOW BRINGING IN A NEW FACE ON THE COUNTY COMMISSION, PROBABLY A DEMOCRATIC FACE, BUT STILL, NEW, MIGHT CHANGE THE DYNAMIC ON THE BOARD?

AND IN PARTICULAR, SINCE WE HAVE AN ELECTION COMING UP FOR COUNTY COMMISSION SO SOON AFTERWARDS?

ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT?

>> I THINK -- YEAH, AS WE SAW FROM THIS WEEK'S COUNTY COMMISSION MEETING, THESE ISSUES THAT THEY ARE DELIBERATING, BE IT MASKS, ETCETERA, LIKE, WE REALLY ARE DEVICES AND REALLY DRAW A LOT OF RESPONSE FROM THE COMMUNITY, I DO THINK THAT WHOEVER THEY PICK, AND -- GOING BACK TO THAT POINT, THESE MEETINGS BECOME LIKE MORE DRAWN OUT, MORE CONTROVERSIAL, THE TOPICS, BECAUSE EVERYONE NEEDS TO WEIGH IN.

UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVEN'T HEARD FROM ELLA SCARBOROUGH IN QUITE SOMETIME, SO WHOEVER WILL REPLACE HER WILL MAKE HER VOICE HER, WILL BE A CHANGE FOR THAT SEAT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU SAID, ELECTION ARE COMING UP.

PEOPLE ARE WANTING TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE A NAME FOR THEMSELVES AND A LOT OF THEM WILL, YOU KNOW, CONTINUE TO WEIGH IN ON THESE TOPICS.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT PERSON WILL LOOK LIKE, OR WHERE THEY'LL COME FROM, BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT WE'LL START TO GET A LITTLE BIT MORE CLARITY AND IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO COMPARE THIS PROCESS TO THE PROCESS THAT THE CITY COUNCIL WENT THROUGH LAST YEAR IN SELECTING A REPLACING FOR THE AT-LARGE MITCHELL.

YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY, THEY DID GO WITH SOMEONE WITH EXPERIENCE ON COUNCIL.

AND WE CLEARLY DID HEAR FROM THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WHO WOULD PREFER SOMEONE WITH SOME SORT OF POLITICS EXPERIENCE.

>> WELL, REGARDLESS OF WHO THEY'LL CHOOSE TO REPLACE HER, WE DO WISH ELLA THE BEST.

SHE'S A LONG-TIME SERVANT OF THIS COMMUNITY AND A COMMUNITY LEADER AND WE DO HOPE THAT HER HEALTH ISSUES, THAT SHE GETS THROUGH THEM.

AND OUR LAST MINUTE, STEVE, TAKE US TO FORT BRAGG AND TELL U US ABOUT THE DEPLOYMENT OF TROOPS THIS WEEK ON THEIR WAY TO A VERY STRESSFUL SITUATION IN EUROPE.

>> VERY QUICKLY, AT LAST COUNT, MORE THAN 5,000 TROOPS, A COUP OF DEPLOYMENT, THEY HAVE GOTTEN GOOD AT THIS AT FORT BRAGG, PANAMA, TWO GULF WARS, AFGHANISTAN, AND IRAQ, SO THIS IS JUST KIND OF I GUESS MORE OR LESS WHAT WE CARRY OUT IN MOTION, WHAT THEY DO WITH THE 82nd AIRBORNE AND THE COMMUNITY SUPPORTING THEM.

>> 2000 PARA TROOPERS FROM THE 82nd AIRBORNE GOING TO POLAND FOR NOW, HOPEFULLY NOT INTO THE WAR ZONE, BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN OVER THERE, BETWEEN RUSSIA AND THE UKRAINE.

BUT WHENEVER THEY STRIKE OVERSEAS, WE'RE AFFECTED HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA BECAUSE OF THE MILITARY PRESENCE HERE, WE WISH THEIR FAMILIES THE BEST.

WE'RE OUT OF TIME, BUT I APPRECIATE Y'ALL JOINING US FOR A GOOD DISCUSSION THEY WEEK, AND AT HOME AS WELL.

IF YOU ENJOYED THAT DISCUSSION, OR EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T, SEND YOUR COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS TO OFFTHERECORD@WTVI.ORG.

ONCE AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK, ON "OFF THE RECORD" AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT TIME.

>> A PRODUCTION OF PBS