- [Announcer] Montana Ag Live is made possible by the Montana Department of Agriculture, MSU Extension, the MSU Ag Experiment Station of the College of Agriculture, the Montana Wheat and Barley Committee, Cashman Nursery and Landscaping, The Gallatin Gardeners Club, and the Montana Federation of Garden Clubs.

(bright music) - Folks, you are watching Montana Ag Live originating tonight from the studios at KUSM on the very exciting campus of Montana State University and coming to you over your Montana public television system.

I'm Jack Riesselman, retired professor of plant pathology, more than happy to be your host tonight.

We're gonna have a really interesting program tonight because in the 33 years that we've done this program, we've never addressed one of the most renowned industries in the state of Montana, and that's the cherry industry in the Flathead area of the state.

And John, our guest tonight, has informed me that they should not be called Flathead cherries because Flathead is not a particular name of a cherry, but it's kind of a brand.

And most people in this state recognize the cherries that we produce in that area.

They're wonderful.

We're gonna learn more about 'em this evening.

Answering the phone this evening before I introduce the panel is Nina Zidack and Cadee Hess.

Thank you.

They'll be here.

There'll be a phone number up.

You know, we haven't addressed cherry, so if you have questions about the cherry industry tonight, it'd be great to get 'em in because we have an expert here this evening.

Now, the panel.

Way on my left, Eric Belasco.

Eric is an ag economist here at MSU.

He's pretty good at guessing what the future holds for ag commodities.

So if you have questions tonight, go ahead My special guest, John Nasgovitz.

John, I met probably 15 years ago in Texas.

I won't say what we were doing, but had something to do with waterfowl.

- Yeah.

- So we had a good time there.

I found out he was a cherry grower.

I followed his career since then.

And this year I finally realized, hey, we need to have somebody that knows something about cherries on the panel.

So John's here tonight.

Abi Saeed is joining us virtually tonight.

Abi was in Turkey.

She caught the Turkey virus.

Whatever, it's not bird flu.

I know that.

But anyway, I had to throw that in.

It's a bad pun.

Abi is joining us.

Thank you for being here, even though you're not in the best of shape tonight.

I'm glad you're back and safe and we'll learn more about Turkey and Africa when you come back on the set in future weeks.

Joining us tonight is Chloe Hinson.

Chloe has various different duties around, but we've had a lot of insect questions and Chloe knows a lot about insects.

So if you have questions about insects this evening, go ahead and phone 'em in.

John, tell us about your cherry orchard up in the Flathead.

- Sure.

First of all, I appreciate, Jack.

I watch the show and really enjoy it.

And it took you 33 years, but I won't hold that against you.

You finally have a cherry grower on the program.

- [Crew Member] Let's go ahead.

- You know, our orchard is about eight acres.

My family bought it back in 2007.

We decided to expand it.

My dad and I both kind of caught the cherry bug, if you will, and really were intrigued by, you know, the history, the culture, the heritage of cherries in Montana and I think agriculture on a whole.

So we grow four varieties.

Lapins, kootenais, veneers, and sweethearts.

They're all sweet cherries.

So, yeah, so, you know, hey, it's been kind of a tough go at times, right?

But, you know, it's needed to be a part of what I think is a really kind of a unique and cool part of the state Montana.

- I agree with you entirely, and I go back into, when I first came out here, I hate to say how many, many, many moons ago that was, but it was '79, I wrote a grant to work with the Flathead cherry growers on post harvest treatment.

That's changed a lot now.

But from day one, I've been very infatuated by the industry up there.

It's pretty healthy, it's very fluent.

I mean, some good years, some bad years, just like any other crop.

Eric, do you have any idea what the economic benefit to the state of this industry would be?

- I mean, I would say it's probably beyond kind of the cherry product itself.

I think it's probably a staple of, you know, tourism.

When you come to visit the Flathead, you know, the first thing you see are the cherry orchards and a lot of the cherry products.

So yeah, there's the value of the ag product, but I mean, I think it goes well beyond that.

- Oh, absolutely.

The tourism industry based on that cherry industry is huge.

We've gone up there.

I can remember when my kids were this high and you turn 'em loose and pick your own orchard.

You wanted to make sure they didn't have anything white on because they came outta there looking pretty sad.

But the added benefit other than just the production of cherries.

John, you were talking ahead of time when we came here.

Production of cherries in the state, do you have a rough estimate from year to year?

- I mean, I think that the average, you know, is probably around two and a half million pounds.

- That's a lot of cherries.

- And excuse me.

And I think most of tonight, when I talk, I'll be talking as a member of the Flathead Lake Cherry Growers Association.

I mean, we have about 75 to 80 members.

I think we're at 76 or 77 members.

But most of my numbers, most of my, you know, experiences will relate to that organization.

And so, hey, we've had a rough go.

We picked fruit last year.

Arguably shouldn't because the price and the colds were so high, because we got a record amount of rain right about as we were about to pick or what have you.

But prior to that, we had an entire crop wiped out.

So anyway, and then even the year before that, but on average, we're kind of in that two and a half, maybe three million.

Three million's a pretty big crop for us.

- So a lot of the audience, and Abi, you can jump into anytime you want.

Rain at harvest, what does that do to the cherry industry?

- Rain at harvest is kind of one of those things that you just hope doesn't happen.

It splits the cherries.

What happens is the cherry absorbs the water and then in the heat of the day expands, that water expands and so it ends up that the cherry splits, maybe it splits down the side, maybe it's a bowl split cracks on the top there where the stem goes into the cherry and becomes a cull.

So it's an unsellable cherry.

- Okay, what are... I guess, can I ask a question?

So like, weather risk obviously at harvest is a big thing.

Weather risk, is that kind of the biggest topic for the cherry?

- I mean, it's kind of like, yes.

The short answer is yes.

I mean, you know, we had 2024's crop... No, excuse me, where are we at?

That was '25.

Yeah, 2024's crop was killed by a storm in January.

I mean, it wiped it out a hundred percent.

- Yeah.

- But we've had... I mean, right now we're in the start of bloom.

So you get a heavy, you know, 25 degree.

I mean, anywhere below freezing, you're gonna have bud loss or you know, you're gonna kill some cherries.

So we're really susceptible now.

We're at a very fragile point right now.

But I think generally, yeah, did they make it through the winter?

You know, hopefully they didn't come outta dormancy a little bit and then we had some cold.

So even if they're not at bloom, but they're swollen enough, kill 'em, you know, if it gets cold enough, certainly at bloom time.

And then I think generally you're worried about rain.

Rain, hail, wind.

- Yeah, it's- - John.

- Yeah, go ahead.

Abi.

- John, kind of jumping on top of that, did you have many dormancy issues this past winter in the Flathead area?

I know that had been a pretty common concern and call-in question throughout this winter.

So what was the growth looking like this winter?

- Yeah, I mean, I think generally, Abi, the concern with this winter, that it never really got that cold.

And so on some level, did the trees really go dormant and did they go to sleep, right?

And so they're susceptible then to, if they're not totally asleep, then all of a sudden you do get a really hard cold say in January, even when they're not quite dormant and all of a sudden we're -25.

But this year, we didn't.

That ended up not really being a concern so I think we came through the winter.

You know, I bloom out branches every year.

So when I start to prune, I take a half dozen or, I don't know, 20, 30 branches, stick 'em in a five gallon bucket of water and put 'em in the sunlight in the house and then they'll bloom out.

You have a wonderful branches of flowers et cetera, and you can just kind of check to see if all the parts are there and the pedals look good, et cetera.

And that, you know, super scientific study really looked good.

And we had a little bit of cold after that, but I think generally, you know, if we can get pollination right now, we're gonna be fine for the year.

We made it through okay.

- Sounds good.

All right, let's change the subject a little bit for just a brief.

From Fort Benton, this is Eric, and then I've got one about aspen borers for Chloe so get ready.

But first of all, from Fort Benton, for Eric, with fuel and fertilizer prices this high, are we approaching a point where it would cost more to grow a bushel of wheat than it's worth?

And that's really a very good question.

- Yeah, that's a tough spot to be.

I mean, prices aren't great.

Input prices are going up.

I mean, I think when you look at it, you know, and I've said this before, we're pretty close at the break even price where you're going to break even but depending upon your operation, you where your costs are a little bit higher.

I think right now, fertilizer prices are mostly purchased.

So hopefully for this season, we're in good space but, you know, fertilizer prices continue to edge up.

Going into next year, I'd be pretty concerned.

- I'm concerned right now.

I mean, have you bought lawn fertilizer this year?

- Not yet.

- You better go to the bank before you go down to one of our lawn fertilizer dealers, because it's not inexpensive.

And John, you use fertilizer, foliar feed on your trees, correct?

- Well, we use all the above.

I mean, ground fertilizer, foliar feeds, et cetera, and I just put down ground fertilizer and I didn't ask.

I just bought it and walked away.

- Okay, thank you, both of you.

Chloe, from Missoula, this person has aspen borer.

She wants to know what she can do about it and is there any pesticide that you know of that would prevent aspen borers in the tree?

- Now I'm not super familiar with the lifecycle of the aspen borer specifically.

I would say if it's a borer, you're not gonna get it with a insecticide because it's gonna be in the tree and protected from any kind of action there.

Maybe Abi knows a little bit more about this specifically.

I don't think I've ever seen them myself.

- Yeah, so poplar borer, it's another name for what I imagine.

I think the caller is asking about aspen borer.

But poplar borer is often a pest that targets more stress trees.

So I like to encourage people to take a look at overall tree health to see if there's anything that's stressing out trees.

There are quite a few wood borers that do this same thing that are targeting more stress trees.

In terms of insecticide options, there are a few complications with wood boring beetles, and that's because they can sometimes be out of reach of systemic insecticides as well as contact insecticides.

But there is some promising impact of parasitic nematodes like the genus steinernema or heterorhabditis.

Those are two common genera of nematodes that often work for some wood boring beetle larvae.

So I would encourage you to look into that and maybe reach out to a county extension agent to see if that could be an option.

- Okay.

Thanks to both of you.

Back to John.

A question from Great Falls.

And I think I probably know the answer, but are there any sweet cherry varieties that will grow in the Great Falls area?

- I mean, are there any?

Yeah, probably, but Jack and I were kind of joking.

I mean, I think that Western Montana in particular and other states, parts of the state perhaps have little micro climates that may support it.

But Flathead Lake, you know, one, I think moderates our winters a little bit, but also, perhaps more importantly, it helps us at pollination time.

So we avoid a lot of those colder temperatures.

Long answer to say, I kind of doubt it.

- Okay.

So we have- - Hey, John.

Correct me.

- Oh, go ahead.

- Sorry, correct me if I'm wrong, John, but would tart cherries be a better option for those colder climate?

- You're talking to the wrong guy.

Really, I don't have any experience with tart cherries at all.

I don't, and I do think that a lot of the research is done with root stocks.

So there's a possibility that there's some cold-hardy root stocks that the individual can kind of look into.

We get most of our trees from nurseries in Washington, and I think giving them a call and talking to them, or even just researching online, but there's some Russian named root stocks that I think are particularly good in the cold, so that might be something worth looking into.

- We added a question via email about Thompson Falls or the Dixon area, which is warmer.

- Yeah.

- And I say the same thing.

While we're on the pollination thing, Abi's an expert in pollinator insects.

How many bees does it require for your orchards to pollinate?

And then Abi, you can add what you want.

- So yeah, that's kind of, I put too many bees in the orchard.

The beekeeper always kind of says, man, you're overdoing it but to me it's like even this... Short answer.

I'll try to give you a short answer.

Usually, for eight acres, we rent two pallets, which has four hives of pallet.

- [Jack] Okay.

- So that's eight.

Is that a hive an acre?

I generally put in a little bit more because for instance, I think we're gonna have a really short, we've got a really short window right here, and if we've got enough bees and the flowers are open, I'd love it if we can get 'em all pollinated quickly and together.

- Okay, so I'll ask you and Abi.

You've got a three or four day pollination window.

What do you do with the bees after that?

They come and get 'em right away?

- No, then we kind of store bees.

Okay, I mean, you know... So yeah, those bees will be in our orchard for probably, gosh, they've already been there for a week and they'll probably be there for another week to maybe two weeks.

I mean, I think to an extent, you know, Keegan at Arlee Apiaries, right?

He doesn't want to come up and get three hives, right?

He wants to come up, fill the semi-truck or the big trailer, et cetera.

So you got some growers who are saying get these bees outta here because you know, now my harvest is gonna be so spread out because they've been pollinating.

You know, some flowers have opened up so late or what have you, but generally speaking yeah, they're in there but, hey, I kind of like having the bees around, so it doesn't bother me.

- [Jack] You get along well with Abi.

- Well, there we go.

Well, and I wanna talk to Abi about her trip to Turkey, so I'm all in.

- Alright, we'll get to that later.

- Thank you.

- I've got you up, John and then I have a call about earwigs and we're not ignoring you on the end down here.

Billings, caller wants to know how to get rid of wasp in strawberry plants.

Then I'll come back to the cherry question.

Wasp and strawberries, yeah.

- I would say probably spray, I would guess.

You know, I worked on strawberries before, but I didn't see a lot of wasps in them.

In Maryland, we really deal with fungal when I was working on strawberries there.

Yeah, I'm not really sure.

- I don't know why they'd be there unless the cherry or the strawberries are rotting Yeah.

Or if they've got the grubs in there.

- Or if they've got the grubs in there.

- And grubs.

- Maybe they get 'em early.

- Just take a fly swatter out and get rid of 'em.

That would work.

- I would like to jump in a little bit too.

So for a lot of the wasp that you might see, they're nectar feeders often as adults so if it's during the bloom time of strawberries, they might just be taking a drink of nectar.

In terms of if you're seeing a lot of the same kind of wasp, that could be one of our social wasps, like the western yellowjacket for example.

If you're seeing some of those wasps, a good option if you're seeing a lot of them in your landscape and they might be bothering you is to put up one of those wasp baited traps.

They have a pheromone bait in it called heptyl butyrate and that's a pretty handy tool.

And I would put that out as soon as possible to catch the queens.

We're seeing development earlier this spring in terms of bumblebees and wasps and other critters out earlier than normal.

So setting that wasp trap up as soon as possible could help reduce the population.

- Can I ask a follow up question, Abi?

Do you think the wasps could be pollinating the strawberries at all?

Are there any?

Yeah, okay.

- Yeah, so certainly anything, wasps are really good at pollinating if they take drinks of nectar and go to multiple flowers at a time.

So a lot of our wasp species are great pollinators as well as predators and parasitoids.

So they're often beneficial in the landscape, but often they conflict with us if we have those social wasps that are sharing spaces with us.

But for the most part, they're pretty beneficial, including pollination services.

- Cool.

- Okay.

Thanks to both of you.

Back to John.

This call came from Billings.

They would like to know, can cull cherries that have cracked from rain be used to make dried cherries, and is there any market for 'em?

And I have another thought.

Does anybody make cherry liqueur out of it?

That is one of my favorites.

- Oh yeah, for sure.

A cracked cherry, can it be?

Yes, there's plenty.

I mean, sure, you can make all sorts of products out of it or just eat it, right?

But for the fresh market, and that's what we're growing for typically.

- So when you have, as we talked before the program, 30%, 40% culls after rain.

- [John] Sure.

- What do you do with them?

Do they throw 'em away or are they... - Well, I mean, like for instance, last year we left them on the tree.

- Okay.

- So we didn't do anything.

Now what happens to it?

So we do have, FLCG, Flathead Lake Cherry Growers Association has a great relationship with a fellow out of Red Lodge who is juicing them and then using them.

I think he's selling the juice, but he is also perhaps using distilling, et cetera.

So like, it's a really popular question.

Well, what happens to all these culled cherries?

It's kind of like the number one or two question that I get.

And although there are some outlets for them and they're for some things that, ways that we can make some money on it.

We're growing for the fresh market and getting 25 cents a pound or 5 cents a pound, 10 cents a pound.

It's just kind of like, sure, it's a little something, but, you know, you're not sustainable doing that.

- No, I believe that definitely.

While I have you up, a comment from Bozeman.

Thanks for the information on the cherries.

And a comment about tart cherries.

Last year, the caller harvested 120 pounds off of one 20-year-old tart cherry tree.

He recommends wrapping the bark to protect from winter injury and Abi would agree with that.

And from Judith Gap, the caller wants to know, is birds a problem in your cherry orchards?

That's a good question.

- No, that's a really good question.

You know, I'm gonna go.

Cody Herring is my mentor and he taught me about 95% of what I know about cherries.

And I said to Cody one day early on, I said, "Cody, what about all these robins?"

And he said, "John, the way I see it, I just hope I grow enough for them too."

So, you know, birds are a problem.

People have kestrel boxes.

There's even outfits that you know, of course you can hire that'll bring in birds of prey, kestrels, et cetera, trained birds to try to scare off things.

When you take a sample and you're looking at it, you're gonna see plenty of bird pecked cherries.

I mean, there's, right.

some of the changes or the evolution of growing fruit is growing 'em inside, right?

Or even netting, et cetera.

So there's certainly things that, you know, people are less tolerant of that.

For our orchard and our operation, we just kind of let 'em, let it happen.

- Yeah, I think they're more of a problem.

And Abi, correct me if I'm wrong, I think they're more of a problem on tart cherries, sour cherries.

- Sure.

- And they're smaller.

They can get an entire cherry in their beak, whereas a big cherry, like you guys grow, you need a pretty good sized bird.

- Well, and I wish they would just kind of stick to one cherry.

You know, that they'll just peck one here and then they'll move over to this one and it's like, I'm happy to share, but if we can maybe limit the damage.

Get focused.

- Out of curiosity, raccoons are famous for that this week.

Do you have a problem with raccoons?

- We have raccoons, but I don't think they're a problem.

I mean, they're not a problem in the orchard.

- Okay.

Sounds like an answer to me.

Chloe, earwigs in corn, how do you control 'em or do you need to?

- Well, I would say you might want to, depending on how many you have.

I've grown my own corn before and gotten earwigs and tried some neem oil when they're small, when the corn plants are small and there's not too many of the earwigs.

I would say once the plant grows a little bit larger, it's a lot harder because the earwigs are gonna burrow into the leaf sheath.

And then if you're spraying on the outside, you're not really gonna get down into the leaf sheath.

I mean, you can pick 'em off.

They're easy to see at least.

- [Jack] Yeah, they move pretty fast.

- Yeah, maybe Abi also has some more commercial... - They don't do any damage really, do they, Abi?

- They can, if the plants are small enough and if there are enough earwigs, they can do a little bit of damage, but usually not on a larger scale.

But Chloe, correct me if I'm wrong, but often like surrounding habitat, could sanitation practices also help maybe reduce populations?

- Yeah, for sure.

Keeping that leaf litter low and maybe spreading out a little bit your crop a little bit more so there's not so much spread between.

If there's something else that you're noticing them on, keeping those things separate.

- So if you have a lot of 'em, you can have the kids do earwig races.

It's kinda like mental races of the DU event.

I'm joking, but they do move pretty quick.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- Okay, a little more serious.

Eric, this question comes in- - Enough fun for now.

(laughs) Let's go to this guy.

- Each week, somebody asks about beef prices and we got somebody again from Judith Gap.

Somebody's on the phone up there tonight.

- [Eric] Yeah.

- They'd like to know, number one, if they expand their beef herd, can you guarantee that beef prices will stay up?

That's a reverse to people saying beef prices are too much.

- Yeah, well, you know, if we have more supply then prices will come down.

I think, you know, in the last 50 years we've seen the inventories dropping slowly.

You know, more recently, we actually had the nutrition conference this last week here in Bozeman and it was interesting.

We had, you know, an operator from a feedlot and also a meat processing facility and they both were talking about the weights that they're seeing that are just larger animals.

And they were saying about 40 extra pounds of carcass weight over the last two years, which is pretty a remarkable increase.

And, you know, I think average, it's somewhere from like five to nine pounds a year so, you know, 20 pounds a year of average.

But, you know, they're responding to that signal of, you know, there's not the inventory but what do you do when you still, 'cause we're not selling cows to, you know, retail.

We're selling beef and so how do you make up that margin?

Well, they get more out of each of those animals.

So it's a long way of answering your question, but I guess I would say, yeah, I mean, if we produce more, I would expect the prices to come down.

I'll add to it though too.

Like we do produce most of what we eat, but we've also seen a lot of imports this last year because of our beef prices being so high.

So in effort for retailers to kind of maintain their prices, they've been importing a lot more from places like, you know, Brazil, Argentina, a lot of South American countries to try to, you know, fill the gap a little bit.

- In other words, it's not gonna change for a while.

- You know, the signals we look for, it's at least a couple years out.

- Yeah, okay.

So we're used to $20 burger and restaurants now.

- I mean.

(laughs) - [John] I mean, once it goes to 20, does it come down?

- No, that's a good point.

It's not like cherries.

They can go up.

- Right.

- But they can fall.

- But we can change that.

Together, we can increase the price of cherries.

We all just commit to eating a lot of them.

- Okay.

- Well, and I guess too, along that line is, you know, there's a lot of, Montana has been a state for a long time that's been kind of a bulk commodity state.

And you know, Flathead cherries are an example of like, how can we create value to certain products?

I mean, there is definitely like the fresh market, but then there's also the specialty products.

And so, you know, perhaps that's where beef is gonna have to go to try to find, you know, some way to add value so that, you know, and that does, you know, add to the price, but it's also gonna package a little bit more specifically for the consumers.

- All right.

Thank you both.

This caller from Spring Hill, that's just down the road here.

Caller sprays his pie cherries for fruit flies, otherwise they leave larvae on the fruit.

Is this an issue for your cherries on the - Yes, it's a hundred percent an issue.

It's probably the biggest.

Yeah, it's the number one issue.

There's a zero tolerance for fruit fly in our fruit.

So when we take our fruit down to the Finley Point Warehouse, they grab a handful out of every bin and then they crush 'em and they look for the larva.

If they find one, they're shutting you down.

So, you know, Chloe and I were talking about it earlier, but we spray on a seven to nine day basis starting roughly June 20th.

That's when, you know, degree-day models tell us that the flies emerged and it's time.

And so we do rotate a number of different ingredients or trade name products, et cetera.

But they get softer as we get, you know, closer to harvest.

- Okay, I have another question here, an email question from Iowa, and that's probably Jane Mangold's relatives 'cause they watch us on YouTube.

They wanna know why these sweet cherries are always known as bing cherries in the Midwest, while out here they're called Flathead cherries.

- Sure, yeah.

I mean, yeah, Jack and I talked about this.

This is kind of something that bugs me a little bit.

I think to an extent that the person from Iowa is probably referencing the fact that the bing is a very, very popular sweet cherry.

I mean, it's maybe the most, don't quote me on this, but it's one of the highest volume being planted in the ground historical cherry of the United States.

And so, oh, it's red and it's dark and it's sweet, it must be a bing type of thing and then, you know, kind of people toss that name around.

I sometimes will snap back at people.

Oh, are these Flathead lake cherries?

Well, okay, if you're asking where they're grown, in the Flathead Lake region?

Yes, they're Flathead lake cherries, but there is not a variety of sweet cherry called the Flathead Lake Cherry.

- [Jack] Yeah.

- That'd be kind of neat.

Maybe like what you're talking about in terms of creating a niche or what have you, if we could get some scientists to design this one that is cold-hardy and... I mean, right?

You know, doesn't split and all that sort of things.

That would be great.

- So that brings up a point.

Are there geneticists working on developing varieties of sweet cherries?

- [John] A hundred percent.

Yeah, absolutely.

- And located probably in Washington or Oregon?

- Yes.

I think, you know, Michigan State University is a big research hub, if you will.

Washington State University is the forefront but then also Oregon too.

But I think Oregon State, Lynn Long.

But anyway, but for sure, yes.

- Okay.

Thank you.

Question for Abi and Chloe, you can jump on first.

This person notices a lot of ants, this is from Great Falls, a lot of ants in their compost pile.

They want to control 'em.

Is there a need to, and do they use a pesticide to do it or do you just leave them go?

- I would say it depends on what you're gonna use your compost for.

I would not put any pesticide if you're gonna reapply that compost in your own field 'cause you don't want that just kind of around and uncontrolled.

I wouldn't consider ants a huge problem unless you're noticing that they're kind of spreading through the yard, or if they're kind of disrupting your compost pile too much.

Maybe mixing up your compost a bit more, adding a little bit more soil in to sort of disperse if there's a lot of food debris that you're not really mixing in well and that's what they're coming to come get.

Yeah, that's my thoughts on it and maybe Abi has some more.

- Abi, you got Anything?

- Yeah, so I agree.

I don't think ants are major concern in compost piles.

And I agree with Chloe's recommendations of just maybe turning it a little bit more.

If the conditions are a little too wet or too dry, that could encourage ants.

But ants are usually not a pest that specifically damages plants themselves.

They can sometimes protect aphids that could damage plants, but most of the time ants themselves aren't a major issue.

And then in a compost pile, they might just be feeding on something else that could be in there but I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Keep an eye on it, but I wouldn't worry too much.

- I agree entirely.

All right, this is a good question, and we could got an economist here to jump on it and John will be very knowledgeable on it.

It's from Missoula.

John, what is your labor source for picking cherries and are changes in immigration policy affecting your labor supply?

- Our labor supply, you know, for harvest comes over from central Washington.

So for example, 10 to 15 years ago, I became friends with Pedro Cuevas.

Pedro's a permanent resident, you know, has his green card, has raised his family here, has worked in a vineyard for 20 years.

But Prosser, Washington, Yakima, Washington, Sunnyside, Washington.

Right now, yes, there's been some complications with current immigration laws enforcement, et cetera.

Yeah, I mean, how deep do we want to go in on this one?

But it's been frustrating at times.

You know, some of us, FLCG as a whole, we've reached out, but I mean, hanging a notice at the Polson job service, we're not gonna get the labor that we need.

So the folks that come over, you know, they're hardworking folks, central Washington, and it's been a real joy to meet them and watch their kids be raised and grow up, et cetera, that it's a family operation.

You know, the harvest is, you know, our orchard is, and then all that goes into it, particularly at harvest is pretty neat so pretty lucky to be a part of it.

- Eric?

- Yeah.

- The H-2A program and there's been big changes in it, has that affected other areas of agricultural labor in the state that you're aware of?

- So my colleague, Dr.

Charlton's the but I would say that there are a lot of operations that do use that program to bring in skilled labor to do things like, you know, drive combines and do sorts of tasks like that.

You know, I think across agriculture, labor is becoming a big concern and it always has been.

But I think, you know, yeah, you have immigration, but then you also have just a shrinking rural landscape where it's just, you know, not the same kind of population base to, you know, draw from.

You know, as John was saying, if you're looking for, you know, people, you're gonna put a job advertisement up.

You know, the people just aren't there.

And that's in a fairly populated area but, you know, you go up to, you know, the high line.

- Sure.

- You're dealing with a very small population base, so.

- It's gonna become more of a problem, I believe, in the future.

- Absolutely.

Yeah.

- Yeah, I mean, I think one thing that we're seeing is that there's a gap, or actually it's not being replenished.

So the workforce is aging and the younger generations are less interested and so I think that labor will be, if it's not already our... Okay, can we make any money at it?

That's probably number one but number two is labor, and will we have the workforce?

I mean, we were talking earlier off set or what have you that eventually, I think cherries... Sour cherries are often, with a shaker, you know, mechanical harvest, there's, you know, vacuum hose arms that are sucking apples off of trees now.

I think that's where we're going with cherries.

I mean, I've heard research talking about trying to start growing sweet cherries like we grow corn.

Drive over it with machinery, et cetera, for the pruning and for the harvesting, et cetera.

So I think automation is... You know, it's like, you know, I've often said, sometimes the people and like the chaos of harvest with a big workforce that comes in, it's short.

Sometimes the best part, sometimes the worst part can be a little bit chaotic.

I'll miss that, right?

If it's all machines, I'll miss that.

- I would believe that.

- There a component.

There's a real connection component to that.

That would be a bummer.

- You know, the same thing with a lot of our potato growers.

Nina's sitting here answering phones, but they have a lot of Spanish people that have been coming year after year after year on work permits and they've developed a great relationship with them and they treat 'em very well and from what you're telling me, yeah.

- [John] I've had some of the best dinners of my life.

- [Jack] I believe that.

Yeah.

- Well, I think there are some crops that are probably a little easier to kind of move into like the automation area.

Fruit and vegetables, that's a tough one.

I mean, cattle production, that's a tough one too.

There are some of that in Montana where you look forward and I think that, I mean, yeah, you look at apples and maybe that is the model of where cherry would eventually be.

- Sure, yeah.

- And I would like to say, even if mechanical way is the way forward, we're not there yet.

I mean, there's still a lot of growth we need to make in that sector.

- Totally.

Yeah, a hundred percent.

But things are moving so fast.

I will say that, just kind of to help answer a little bit.

I had a conversation with a woman whose family, well, it's Kari Zavala who takes care of a number of orchards for our membership.

Where we would be without the Zavala family?

I don't know.

But she said that she got the verbal that the workers, they were gonna bring in as they do annually for this time of year through the H-2A, that she got the verbal, but then that, you know, letter of confirmation or whatever was supposed to arrive in a week, don't quote me on this, but it was up until, I mean, it was practically too late.

It was a month, six weeks where she's like, on pins and needles, am I gonna have my workforce?

And again, she, to be part of that program has to post those jobs.

- Right.

- And doesn't get the applicants, et cetera.

So I just wanted to kind of add that.

I think that the... What's the word?

The administration and the circumstance we find ourselves under right now has definitely made it a little bit more complicated.

- Okay, thank you.

Yeah, I have to throw this one in.

I like this.

Billings, an 80-year-old farmer and I can relate to that age really enjoys Montana Ag Live and thank you for that comment.

He said to take a jar of sweet cherries, Flathead if you prefer, and fill it with vodka for a few months and it makes a great cherry liqueur.

It's great for Christmas gifts.

- [John] I imagine.

- If you have some culls, I'll prefer you use a bottle of vodka.

- There you go.

There you go.

- Is that your comment, Jack or is that somebody?

- Did you phone that one in yourself?

- No, I didn't, but I thought about it.

Okay, Abi, this person wants to know what they can plant in their garden this next week.

The question comes from Missoula.

- [John] Wow.

- Yeah, so I would say you can plant some of the cold, if you're looking at vegetables, some of those cold-hardy vegetables like beets, greens, things like that.

Those can be started pretty soon now, especially in Missoula.

If you are growing indoors, if you have access to that, this would be a good time to start those really warm season but long duration, the ones that take a long time, so like eggplant, tomatoes, peppers.

Those would be a good one to start indoors right now too so you have plenty of time for them to be fruitful by the end of the growing season.

- Okay, thank you.

While I have you up, quickly, can you control grass, and let me look here, over wintering garlic bed?

It's from Great Falls.

- Yeah, that's a tough one though.

That would be tough to do.

Often, you could try some mulches to reduce just the vigor, but I would say that's a tough one and I would have to look into what the options are for that because a lot of products that would be targeting grass may also impact the garlic so.

- I would agree.

- That would be something.

Maybe reach out to your county extension agent and they can look into specifics for you.

- All right, thank you.

Eric, quick one.

This person from Great Falls wants to know, are we gonna have a farm bill by next week?

- Yeah, quick one, huh?

I mean, where the farm bill sits now, you know, a bill has been kind of sent forward.

There hasn't been a full House vote, a full Senate vote.

Those would need to happen.

And then, you know, usually the Senate and the House aren't gonna agree so there needs to be a conference to kind of find the middle ground on it.

I think it seems like the foundation is kind of set there and my guess is that, you know, the Republican majorities in both the House and Senate have some incentive to try to get that done, you know, before the midterms.

And so we'll kind of see hopefully that kind of speed.

You know, I don't know if there's big changes.

I think there were some changes made through executive orders that aren't being reversed in the next farm bill.

So could be kind of a status quo farm bill.

- [Jack] How many years has it been since we did our last farm bill?

- The last one I believe was 2018.

- [Jack] We're overdue.

- Yeah, we're a couple years overdue.

And so there's a one year extension.

Actually, I mean, Trump signed the last farm bill in his first term.

Yeah, so we were overdue and then there was a year extension.

So the current farm bill extension technically expires September, 2026.

- Okay.

From Bigfork, and John, I think I know the answer to this, but I'll let you go ahead with it.

Are there any organic cherry growers in the Flathead and how would you manage an orchard organically?

- There are organic orchards in the Flathead.

- Are there really?

- Yeah, and- - [Jack] Cherry orchards?

- Yeah, down on Findley Point.

I don't think our membership includes any organic certified orchards.

There are certainly commercial, large, organic cherry operations, Oregon, Washington, et cetera.

So how would I manage it?

As it was described to me, you know, you've gotta be a pretty darn good horticulturist.

I mean, you really have to be, because you are a little bit more restricted.

You don't have quite the tools I would say that a non-organic certified does.

Yeah, I don't know how I'd manage it.

I've tinkered with the idea of it.

I guess the answer is because I think it's pretty hard.

I know that there's been a trend that went a lot of people in and then they went back out 'cause it was a challenge.

- So, you know, if you find one fruit fly- - Yeah, there's organic insecticides.

I mean, the ones that we finish with are certified, so spinosad or what have you, so Entrust is one and GF-120.

So we use insecticides that are organically certified.

- Okay.

Thank you.

Chloe, this person from Fairfield would like to know what you're doing in your new job in the Barley program.

- There you go.

- Yeah, so I'm working in the Barley Malt and Brewing Quality Lab.

That's part of the barley breeding program at MSU.

So we support the barley breeding program by testing malt quality for the lines that we're developing for future malt.

And then we also do outreach.

We do third party testing for malt houses across the US and even internationally.

So we'll get their malt in and let them know how they're doing with their malting process.

And for anyone not aware, malt is slightly germinated barley that we're gonna then break down basically to make a sugar water with some enzymes.

You add some yeast into that, that makes the alcohol for beer.

So no barley, no beer is our big saying.

And it's been really fun working in the Barley lab.

- And I still am waiting for my invitation to be on the taste panel.

- We're coming with that this spring, so I'll let them know to keep you on the list.

- Okay, I've been on it for a long time but I don't get that phone call.

- We have some personnel change, but Aline, our postdoc now is working really hard on some sensory stuff so we're definitely setting up.

- So a caller from Missoula watched "Backroads of Montana" yesterday and they had a special on the Polson Cherry Festival.

- [John] Sure.

- I happened to see it too and the cherry pie eating contest with kids not using their hands or forks is pretty fun to watch.

This person wants to know, are they using Michigan pie cherries or do you think they're using Flathead style cherries?

- I honestly have no idea.

I really don't and so I don't wanna... I mean, depending on the timing, you know, I think that that festival is third and a half week of July and so that's right when we're starting harvest.

Now there are some early varieties that perhaps somebody contributed to make But I don't know the answer.

- You know what?

- Could've been last year's.

- Just watching the "Backroads of Montana" segment, it's worth going up and participating.

I'd like to try the pie eating cherry contest.

- Let me know.

I wanna be there.

- I was afraid that was the answer.

- Were they big cherries in the pies?

- I couldn't tell because most of it was on the kids' face.

But the winner did it in about 30 seconds.

- [John] Wow.

- And she was a young lady.

Abi, did you see that?

- I didn't see it, but I can say a pie eating contest is a win-win because even if you don't win the competition, you get to eat cherry pie.

- [John] There you go.

- I recommend it.

- I agree.

I agree.

- Okay, another caller from Polson for John.

The caller buys frozen quote, "bing cherries" at Costco and also frozen cherries from other stores.

Is there any interest in producing these products from cherries produced around Flathead Lake?

- Is there any interest?

Yeah, I imagine there's some interest.

I think, again, this just goes back to, I don't think there's enough money in it.

As a grower, I'm not interested in it.

But I think that trying to figure out a way and what to do with these culls, et cetera, is kind of important.

But really, we are growing and inputting, et cetera for the fresh market.

I mean the price is... You know, to get the fruit off the tree after the packer is a $1.10, right?

So like if a juicer or somebody's giving me 25 cents a pound.

- Okay.

- I'm like, no.

- What about the culled cherries?

Could those be fresh packed or frozen packed?

- Sure, and again, like we do.

We've got a little bit of an outlet with I think it's Riley.

I'm really kind of embarrassed I can't remember his name, but down there in Red Lodge.

And again, our check at the end of the year from Monson, our fruit packer, you know, it says maybe some briners, some juicers, et cetera.

So they've gotten us somewhere in the three to 18 cents or something.

I'm really kind of tossing those out a bit 'cause it's really, that's not the number I'm looking at when I'm trying to figure out, you know, how the year went, if you will.

And again, when they're advertising prices pre-harvest, they're not telling us about the juice prices.

May I ask you this though, the fellow from... Excuse me, the person from Bigfork, that asked about organic management, there are options.

I mean, I think fungicide.

So I use an organic certified fungicide, organic Microthiol Disperss or depressed or something like that.

You know, so that can be sprayed on the trees for fungus.

Certainly there are some, GF-120, Entrust.

There are definitely some insecticides to control the fruit flies.

So it is possible, and especially on a smaller... Say you've got a few trees in the yard, it's totally feasible.

I feel like I kind of might have ignored that person.

- [Jack] Okay.

- And then a really good resource for those options is The Intermountain Tree Fruit Growers Guide.

That's the publication that's produced through a variety of states, including Washington, Oregon, Montana, Idaho.

They have a lot of those, both conventional options, but also those certified organic options for both disease issues and pest issues.

- Awesome.

- Alright.

You know, we talked about this ahead of time.

We've talked a little bit about your insect issues.

You also mentioned that you have powdery mildew issues, which being a plant pathologist, that interests me a little bit more.

But for the most part, we consider in most crops, powdery mildew to be kind of not of a huge pest, but for the cherries, it's an issue.

- Yeah, powdery mildew kind of snuck up on us.

And I think it was one of those where we were a little bit in denial that, oh, we are here, it's in Washington, but it's not here, it's not here, it's not here.

Well, it was here and it's here in waves, if you will.

So eventually, if the powdery mildew becomes bad enough, it will get onto the fruit.

And if it gets onto the fruit, it's not gonna be sold.

So it'll ruin a whole box.

It leads to incredible adjustments when they reach the distributors or the grocers, et cetera.

So, you know, powdery mildew is probably what I think about most when it comes to pest management in the orchard right now, because it's one of those where... I mean, it produces its own water is what I've been told.

And dry heat, et cetera, it likes that, so.

It's a real challenge and for me, it's something that you have to be diligent about from start to finish.

- When did you first see powdery mildew move in here?

- I'll put it at five years, but maybe less than 10.

Somewhere in the six to eight range, maybe roughly.

- [Jack] Okay.

- I'm gonna throw out a hundred more numbers and get it right eventually.

- Do the varieties differ?

- I don't know.

I just know what it looks... All powdery mildew is the same to me.

- [Jack] Okay.

Yeah, no, I would agree.

- You know what I mean?

No, I don't know if there are.

I didn't even know that - You've not noticed some of your varieties differ?

- Oh, I apologize.

I apologize.

It seems to be most prevalent in our sweethearts.

- [Jack] Okay.

- So I apologize.

I misunderstood.

Yeah, but it's across the board.

- Go ahead.

Did you have something?

- Oh yeah, I was just wondering, did the sweethearts have like a higher sugar content or what do you think why they... - I think because the sweethearts are, I think it's because they're harvested later and so I think we've eased up on the sprays.

And so, you know, like my last sprays, like, I'm gonna probably have a fungicide in there, but I might not.

And so I think you kind of... You know, I think you've got other things going on in a sense 'cause you're unable to kind of stay on top of it and then all of a sudden, it's harvest is over but maybe even prior to harvest.

So I feel like it's a little bit the fact that by the time... Yeah, they're just a later variety.

- Okay, while I've got you up and we're gonna try to get as many of these cherry questions answered as possible.

- Well, it's been 33 years.

- All right.

- Come on, bring 'em.

- From Facebook, I have planted some cherry trees on my property north of plains in the last three years.

They have lapins cherry of variety that bloomed heavily and produced small cherries and a little growth last year.

Are my trees too young to let them produce fruit?

If so, how long do I need to wait to let the trees produce fruit?

- [John] So can you tell me again when they planted them?

- [Jack] Three years ago.

- Yeah, you know, it's interesting, when I was starting our orchard out with new plantings, I pulled the flowers off.

So, even year one, year two, I literally went through and handpicked all the flowers off the tree.

And I did that because I wanted the tree to focus on growing wood and establishing structure, framework, et cetera, and fruit bearing surface as opposed to putting any energy into the limited amount of trees that it's gonna be.

So I think on a level, that's one idea.

Their question was, are they too little?

- Yeah, and how long do they, at what age does a fruit or cherry trees produce?

- Well, I mean, in the third year, you should see fruit.

I mean, in the second year, you'll probably see a few pieces of fruit.

- [Jack] But they're?

- Well, there's just very few of them.

They might be good sized cherries.

He or she said that they were a lot of cherries, but they were small.

- [Jack] Yeah.

- Yeah, I guess I want to know how much, and you said it didn't grow very much.

Yeah, I'd fertilize it.

I'd pull cherries, I'd pull flowers and then I would tip it.

I would cut the ends of branches to try to stimulate growth.

- [Jack] Okay.

Sounds good.

- And if I'm in Plains, I'll... - You know, it tells me that with global warming, you might be able to grow sweet cherries outside of the Flathead.

I mean, if we can grow watermelons in Dixon and cantaloupe, maybe we can grow sweet cherries there too.

I know it's the springtime moderation or the temperature from the lake, but you know- - I agree with you.

- [Jack] It's warmed up a lot around the state.

- Yeah, I agree with you.

- Sawfly, you want to touch on that?

It's a problem in barley.

What are we doing about it?

And we gotta get through these pretty rapidly because we're rapidly approaching the end of another program.

- Great.

Yeah, so barley is a great trap for wheat stem saw fly specifically.

It can kill them once they're infected and I'm working currently with a grad student in our program to identify what the genetic regions in barley are that are causing some of this killing, so hopefully we can identify.

Okay, this is what's happening in barley, maybe we can transfer or find similar genes in wheat that will also be less susceptible.

- It is definitely a problem and we've been doing a lot of work on it for years.

So the music's gonna start here in a minute.

I'm down to about 30 seconds on this program.

First of all, John, thank you for coming down.

- [John] I appreciate it.

- Yeah, I tell you what.

- You're welcome.

- I learned a lot about the cherry industry.

I mean, and I apologize for not addressing it before this.

Eric, as usual, good guesses on the economy.

- Thank you.

- We'll see how they work.

John, again, thank you.

- Well, thank you, Jack.

- Yep, Chloe, appreciate you for coming here.

- Thanks, everyone.

- Abi, thanks for being here.

It's always good to have you.

I'd rather have you in person.

Next week, Matt Upmeyer with Montana Renewables.

Join us.

You'll have a great time.

Good night.

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