Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> Well, good evening and welcome to Making It Grow.

We are so glad that you joined us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty, and I am a Clemson Extension agent.

Happy to have this job over here.

And happy to have my good friend Terasa Lott who also works for Clemson coming in to help us.

Thank you Terasa.

Terasa> It is my pleasure.

I thoroughly enjoy the time that I get to spend on Making It Grow.

I wish I had a little more time to do that.

Amanda> Well, we're sure glad you can be with us.

We would be lost without you.

Honest to Pete.

Anyway, thanks a lot.

So, gosh, what a great cast we have.

Cast.

I guess y'all are the cast.

Is that fair to say?

Yeah, yeah.

So, Jackie, you're the urban horticulture agent for Fairfield, Kershaw and Richland, that little group of counties up there.

And we're so glad that you're with us.

>> Happy to be here.

Amanda> Yeah.

And, you have, people who grow flowers and all kinds of fun things.

Jackie> Oh.

Yeah, yeah.

>> It's fun isn't it?

Jackie> Flowers.

And we have a few, Christmas tree farms.

Amanda> Do you really?

Okay.

Okay, great.

Yeah.

I don't put up Christmas trees because, anymore, because I go out to California, but we'll always get some weird, fun Christmas tree out there.

They have some funky ones out there.

Anyway.

We used to have a... We had a bamboo pole, Terasa that was as tall as a ceiling, which was 11.5 feet.

And when you could go and get cedar trees, we would carry it with us and we get this giant cedar tree, and then we'd have to guy-wire it to the ceiling.

And it was just, (laughing) Whew, back in the day.

That was fun.

Yeah, yeah.

Anyway, thanks for being with us.

Nikki Bertagnolli, you're an urban hort agent in your station in Aiken.

But I think you help a lot with H.G.I.C., which tell people what H.G.I.C.

is.

>> So the H.G.I.C., It's the Clemson Extension Home and Garden Information Center and the H.G.I.C.

is a website.

It also has, a staff of about nine, people that answer emails and phone calls.

And then... Amanda> But...the fact sheets, I mean, gosh, on.

Vicky> Over 950 publications on there.

And I tell people that it's one of those things where if you search for something and you can't find it on the H.G.I.C., it's a good chance it's not supposed to grow in South Carolina.

Amanda> That's a good thing to tell them.

Yeah.

Vicky> So but, it's a wonderful I mean, it is a wealth of information.

Amanda> And the people I'm not sure they're all as much fun as you are, but I bet they are.

Vicky> Everybody's as fun as I am.

Amanda> Everybody's just fine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And Barbara Smith just retired and she was, <She did> she was pretty wonderful too.

Good group of people up there.

Thank you for what you do.

And Davis Sanders, who comes down from South Pleasantburg Nursery in Greenville.

And we're just so happy that you can come down and bring all of these wonderful specimens that y'all have in the nursery.

>> Well, and it's always a nice trip.

As I always say, I always go back home with more than I came down with, but it's a pleasure coming down to spend time with all you.

Amanda> Well, we have we have fun.

It's not, It's not stressful.

Davis> Plants are fun.

Amanda> Yeah, it is fun.

Yeah, yeah.

And you bring fun things for us to learn about.

Well, a little bit later, we're going to talk about the giant pumpkins and watermelons with my friend Dr.

Brandon Huber, who lives not quite around the corner, but about two miles from my house.

And then bats with, Jennifer Kindel of S.C.D.N.R.

Bats get such a bad rap.

And they're just wonderful, wonderful, wonderful animals.

And, we should all protect them and put up bat houses if we can.

Anyhow, And then we're so glad that some people, do all these energetic things and have beautiful pictures to send us, Terasa.

Terasa> We sure are.

I find it very inspirational when you submit your photos.

When we put out our call for Gardens of the Week.

Let's take a look at this week's edition.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Terasa> I hope you looked very carefully at that last photo from Debbie Brown.

There was a live frog perched on top of a frog statue in the landscape bed near their pond in southern Greenville County.

Really good camouflage.

But such a wonderful illustration of wildlife habitat right in our own backyard.

I hope you'll go to our Facebook page, look at all the submissions and don't be shy.

Post your photos there when you see us, make a call for Gardens of the Week.

Amanda> We do.

It's a fun way to start the show.

Davis, You've got some things that are sitting here in front of me that look pretty fun.

Davis> Oh, you know, these, these are two examples, two specimens of our native Schizachyrium the little Bluestem grass.

Amanda> It doesn't look little to me.

Davis> Well, it's, it's, it's, it's a little in relation to some of the other, ornamental grasses.

But, the thing about these is they are a native grass.

They're, they are extremely well behaved.

They maintain a nice, compact clump, even though they do get fairly tall.

The fall color is unparalleled.

It's, it turns, most of them turn a really brilliant scarlet red, with just a hint of orange in the wintertime.

These two varieties, in particular, the taller one there on the, on the left is, is called "The Blues", because it does have a really nice blue color.

And if you've ever seen it in a landscape before, it starts gaining its fall color.

It does have a distinct blue-green tinch to it.

And then the, the, the shorter one there is called Chameleon.

And, I don't know, you can you can just barely see it on the, on the TV, on the screen there.

But this one has a white stripe in it.

So it's variegated and this time of year, you'll see it, starting to color up with, with the blue, green, white and that scarlet color all at once.

<Gosh.> It's also got those really delicate little, little seed heads on there.

<Aren't they sweet> They're not really showy.

It's just, it just really makes a nice accent.

The thing that we really like about this plant, other than the fact that it is native, is, it's, it's just so well behaved.

It doesn't get big and out of hand like a lot of the, exotic grasses.

<Yes.> The maiden grasses and,...grass.

And, it's, it's, it provides a nice wildlife habitat.

Jackie was mentioning earlier about the firefly larvae over wintering in, in, in the leaf litter.

Well these, also attract a lot of different, different pollinators that will, that will lay eggs near the plant.

And, and if you look down at the bottom, near the pot, I don't know, it's not showing up on the TV very well, but there's a lot of dried grass that has, that is wilted down over the season.

And, migrating birds love to pluck this and use it for, for nesting in the spring because it's a, it's a fairly delicate, and easy to work with grass.

Amanda> Easy to work with and available if we plant these native grasses.

<Exactly.> That's just wonderful.

And, you know, some people like to cut things down at the end of the year, but you don't have to.

Davis> No, these, we always like to emphasize that with the ornamental grasses.

Leave them, not leave them, standing up, as long as you can, till an ice storm knocks them down or, or whatever, because, they, they do something that you get from very few other things in the winter landscape.

They give you the motion when the wind blows, and the sound of the, the, blades rustling together.

It's just a, a very peaceful and very, a very tranquil addition to the winter landscape.

<Okay.> Terasa> You know, Amanda, we talk about grass, as in turf grass not being too supportive of wildlife.

But if you are a butterfly lover, the native grasses, like the little blue stem, support some of the skipper species.

Amanda> Oh, do they?

Terasa> Yes.

And I love skippers.

They're, kind of look like a cross between a butterfly and a moth and they're characteristically small, but have this really darting, fast flight.

It's...hard to get a good picture of them.

They need grasses like that as their host plant.

Amanda> Come on.

Isn't that's fun.

Davis> Definitely.

Amanda> That is delightful.

Goodness gracious.

And I guess once you get them planted, they're probably pretty foolproof.

Davis> They're very drought tolerant.

The only thing that they really require is full sun.

Most of the...native ornamental grasses do need, do need at least 6 to 8 hours of direct sun.

Amanda> You know, people who fuss about the deer and poor deer don't have any place to live anymore.

I don't believe that deer eat these.

Deer like to, like foliage and things like that.

And so I think this would be a good thing to use.

Davis> Exactly.

The, the, deer don't like those.

They don't like things that have got a lot of fragrance.

So if you, if you, if you plan properly, you can have a beautiful and fragrant yard and the deer will just stand on the side and look for something else to eat.

Amanda> Yeah.

Ah.

Oh, well, I hope they find it, personally.

Okay.

Thank you for bringing those.

I appreciate it.

Yeah.

<Glad to do it.> >> Terasa.

Terasa> Let's try to help Catherine in Columbia, who's got an identification for us.

This plant popped up in my yard.

Can you tell me what it is?

And thank goodness we do have a photograph.

Amanda> Popped up.

Jackie?

Jackie> Well, this is Carolina moonseed.

It is one of the native plants.

Amanda> It looks...you look real happy and excited.

Jackie> Well.

Native plants are great to add to the landscape.

This is one that can be a bit aggressive.

It is veining.

It has a very shallow root system, but the root system can get quite long.

<All right.> It does make beautiful red berries that are eaten by the songbirds.

<All right.> That's how it gets spread around.

The flowers are green and kind of insignificant, but flies and beetles pollinate them, which is a good thing to see some of the beetle pollinators.

So it has some value.

But yeah, it can become a bit weedy.

Vicky> We call that enthusiastic.

Jackie> Yes, it is an enthusiastic native plant.

Amanda> Is it... So, it does have value for wildlife?

Jackie> It does have value for wildlife.

It is one of our native plants.

It does well, live, our climate here in the Midlands because this is in Columbia.

Amanda> Is there something that you could do to like have it in a bit to contain it somehow?

So it could be there?

If you got it, you got it?

Jackie> Yeah.

Yeah.

Unfortunately it's one of those because the birds spread it around.

Amanda> Oh of course they do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, you know.

Jackie> Appreciate it for what it is.

It does have beautiful red, colorful berries.

So and it's called, Carolina moonseed, but its seed pods look like snail shells.

Amanda> Gracious.

That sounds kind of fun to look at.

Jackie> Yeah, it's a little bit interesting.

A little bit different.

Amanda> So you told her the good and bad things about it?

Jackie> Yes, the good and the bad.

<Okay.> It does have benefit.

It is harder to control.

Some of those things.

Amanda> I mean, there are so many other things that are worse than that.

that's for sure.

Right?

Right.

Terasa> I think sometimes there are plants that we appreciate in their natural habitat, but maybe not so much in, in a landscape around our home.

Amanda> And if you had a big you, if you're if you had woodlot, <Yes> I mean, if you had a, if you had some property, you could certainly let it be there.

Couldn't you?

Terasa> Sure, yeah.

Amanda> All righty.

Okay.

Well, Terasa?

Terasa> Let's see if we can help Tom.

Also in Columbia, another sort of mystery who found an object attached to his oak tree.

And he wants to know, what is it?

Amanda> Goodness.

Who?

Oh, yeah.

Vicky> This is this was a fun treat for me because we don't get to see it very often.

Amanda> That's cool.

Vicky> We've got some clues as to what this is, so it's.

You can see that it's rather large.

<Yeah.> It's big.

And then you can also see that it's been attached to this twig the whole length of the objects.

And so those two things with the size and the fact that it's, it's, <It's not dangling> Vicky> All the way to the side of the substrate is a clue as to what this is.

And this is a cocoon for the Cercropia Moth.

And, Cercropia Moths are a giant silkworm.

Amanda> I was going to say this looks big.

Vicky> It is.

And this is the largest North American moth that we have.

Amanda> Come on.

Vicky> We don't see it very often, so this is a treat whenever we get this.

And, it's native and the reason it's, a it's called a silk moth.

Because it, it spins this silk and it, it's very strong.

It's got very good tensile strength.

But what it is, is the caterpillar, which is a large caterpillar.

And it's got, spines and is real colorful.

However, in this case, I've told y'all if it's spiky or if it's hairy, don't touch it.

<Be careful> In this case, it's not, it's not dangerous.

It's more of a warning.

But when that caterpillar is ready to pupate, they'll spin this cocoon.

Because this cocoon is waterproof.

It's going to be protective for it.

It's really, it's tough.

It's super tough.

And then it'll pupate inside this cocoon, and then, it'll over winter in here.

And then in the spring, they'll emerge.

Amanda> Wow.

So I wonder how it got up in the tree to get it down.

Vicky> Well, I mean, the I don't know, I mean, I don't know how high it was, but,... <That's fabulous> he clipped it off and said, I've got a present for you and this is what I got... I mean, it's a treat whenever I get stuff like this.

Amanda> I know you like- Vicky> This...is a, this is a surprise for me.

(laughing) Davis> Do the, the the, the, the, the caterpillars prefer a particular tree or a particular, species or family or do they-?

Vicky> So, a lot of your caterpillars, they have certain host plants that they prefer.

Some of them are going for, places that are protected and they're not going to go far from a food source.

And what we know about oak trees, the research shows that oak trees are incredibly diverse for species.

And so there's all sorts of ones that are going to be hanging out in an oak tree.

Davis> Nice.

That's fun.

Vicky> Thank you.

Amanda> Okay.

Yeah.

Well did that have an emergence hole or?

Vicky> This one does not.

I don't see anything.

So, I'm going to- Amanda> Where are you going to keep it.

Vicky> I'm going to keep it outside.

It'll be on the back porch.

But I'll probably put it in one of those little mesh houses.

Amanda> So it'll be protected.

Yeah.

Vicky> So nothing will eat it, but it's still going to have all the, all the... weather impacts.

So it, it does what it's supposed to do.

Amanda> Gosh, how exciting.

That was a good friend who brought you that.

Vicky> This is a great friend that brought me this.

Amanda> With a good eye too.

Okay.

What a treat.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Okay.

Well, it's kind of that time of year coming up, and Brandon Huber, Dr.

Brandon Huber, who is a, research scientist over at S.C.

State University, has more fun.

There are worldwide organizations of giant pumpkins and giant watermelons.

And, he's within that.

And the things he has over are just fabulous.

It's gonna be fun.

Amanda> I'm talking to Brandon Huber, who's a research scientist at South Carolina State University.

But today, I'm visiting you at your farm in St.

Matthews, South Carolina.

>> Yeah, that's right.

So I'm a research scientist at SC State University.

I work on vegetable crops and, and yeah, we're right here with my giant pumpkins and watermelons in this patch out here in the yard.

Amanda> You have a competitive aspect to your, personality.

But y'all are great friends, all the people who come to the competitions.

But this is, this is quite a gigantic pumpkin.

Dr.

Huber> Right.

So, yeah, this one's estimated, 500, 505 pounds as of the other day.

Amanda> Whoa, Mercy.

That's a lot of pumpkin pie.

<Yes> But you also do watermelons.

So let's talk about those first.

Dr.

Huber> That's right, yeah.

The watermelons start as early as March.

I graft them and I graft them on a gourd rootstock.

And the genetics are really interesting on these giants in general.

They're, almost a proven pedigree from over 30, 30 to 50 years of improved breeding for giants.

They originally stem from Carolina Cross Watermelons.

Amanda> That's kind of fun.

Dr.

Huber> They're generations and generations of 300 pound watermelons, are some of the biggest ever grown for that time.

And we've selected them and crossed them back, and only your top performers get replanted again the next year.

So we've really, really pushed the bar and they've gotten just gigantic.

Amanda> So these watermelons, kind of look like they're at the beach because they're under a canopy and they're not sitting on the hot sand.

What's that all for?

Dr.

Huber> Yeah.

So we keep them off the ground.

What we find is, is the watermelon, a large watermelon just collects dew and moisture underneath it.

And the watermelons get a rot spot on them if they, sit too long.

And so- And it's very unfortunate if you were to grow a 100 pound watermelon and you just leave it on the ground.

And you think you got this great watermelon, and you roll it over and have a rot spot on it, and it's disqualified from the competition.

So, we've learned to grow them up on these hammocks.

And so it's basically like a hammock you would sit on.

We make them ourself out of like, minnow nets and soccer nets and stuff, and it allows us to keep a melon off, suspended a foot off the ground.

Allows us, you can check underneath it and lets airflow- It's really great.

It's just a game changer.

Amanda> And then you've got them shaded as well.

Dr.

Huber> That's right.

So they're- So with these melons, get so large they outgrow their leaf canopy.

And we think about a commercial watermelon, they are shaded by their leaves.

So we don't have that shade with the leaves because of how big they are.

So we need to keep the fruit cool because, as soon as the fruit gets warm, and gets exposed to the sun, it tends to signal the melon to start ripening.

And we don't want them to ripen too early.

We want them to grow... long.

Amanda> But you've got the leaves out in the sun and boy, there's a big spread of those leaves.

Dr.

Huber> Yeah.

So each plant is 200 square foot, 200 to 300 square foot for a watermelon plant.

<Wow> Which to compare that to commercial watermelons.

It's only about 24 square foot, so more than, about ten times the space.

But we're only growing one fruit, one large fruit.

And so the more leaves, almost the more leaves, the better to support that fruit.

Amanda> And you go through, and, I believe, remove any little watermelons that say, "I'm here.

I'd like to be a watermelon too."

Dr.

Huber> That's right... it's ongoing checking the patch to make sure, to remove those smaller fruit.

Maintain only one fruit per plant because we want to really encourage all that energy to go in that one fruit.

Amanda> And then you've also got some little tables out there.

Is that where you play cards or what?

Dr.

Huber> Maybe the melons play, play cards at night.

But no, those are to cover the rootstock.

And the rootstock is just this big stump growing out of the ground.

And, they get a lot of rots and stuff.

So it's easier- We found that it's easier to just keep them covered.

Out of the rain and the sun too.

Amanda> Okay, okay.

And, do you fertilize them and add extra irrigation if they need them?

How does it go?

Dr.

Huber> Absolutely.

So each plant, you know, being a 200 square foot plant, I irrigate about- Well as dry as it is right now, I'm irrigating, each plant 50 gallons per plant, <Whoa> 50 gallons per plant.

And that's, you know, a lot of water to support that big plant and that big fruit and fertilizer a little bit at a time.

I use a dosatron, and I have a little dose of fertilizer each day.

And, you know, it's kind of like a marathon.

A little, you just keep going a little at the time.

You don't want to overdo- I don't go- You know, if you buy a box of Miracle-Gro and you read the ingredients, I'm fertilizing at a fraction of that, every day.

Amanda> Because if it got too much, it might crack.

Dr.

Huber> That's right.

They split.

They're very volatile, especially the pumpkins.

But they, you know, you really, you know, slow and steady, you know, with all of them, or otherwise sometimes the vines burst, the fruit can burst, the stump can blow up.

I had one the other day where the the stump, the plant, actually just... the root stock blew up and blew up to the point where I cut itself off of its own circulation.

And that's those melons I took to the competition the other day.

<Wow!> They were early, early fruit because they, just, the plant quit.

<Yeah> And so they're, it's very volatile.

Amanda> And then with the pumpkins, we've got a whole different scenario going on, but similar in some ways.

You've got them on a mat kind of that keeps them off the ground.

Dr.

Huber> Right.

Yep.

So that's a, that's a mill fabric mat, kind of like a conveyor belt, synthetic material.

It breathes, it allows air- It allows, you know, it keeps the fruit dry and clean.

And also allows you to slide the fruit as you need it, because as the thing gets really big, it'll push pressure on its own vine.

And I'll actually have to adjust it a couple times.

Even as big as it is... it'll actually break itself off its own vine if you're not careful.

Amanda> And then, you've got electricity out here, you got fans going and a camera.

I mean, this is a lot to have a pumpkin.

Dr.

Huber> The camera tells me, helps me keep a second eye on it when I'm out and about and it's just mainly, it's for splits so that I can be proactive and the fans that keep the airflow.

You know, it's tough growing a pumpkin in South Carolina.

And what we find is if, you know, if you're growing a big one to keep a airflow on its, on its stem, the peduncle, the stem that connects to the fruit, keep that dry and airflow on it keeps us out of trouble.

And it's amazing, well, you know, with airflow, if I remove that fan, for a day or two or I lose power, they'll start getting spots and stuff, that quick.

So it's just, just an insurance policy, and it works really well.

It seems crazy, but it's, it's really helped me get this, this far.

Amanda> So this is, here sitting under, in this, you know, protected spot and being babied along, but you've got to get it on some kind of truck or something and get it to the different state fairs.

I think you gonna take them to the South Carolina State Fair.

Dr.

Huber> That's right.

Yeah.

So, we have this pumpkin lift ring.

A really interesting device.

It's a metal ring.

And, we run, heavy duty lifting straps down around the circumference of that ring and at the bottom, because the pumpkin is kind of, you know, it's wider in the middle and it kind of goes down at the bottom.

It allows us to, kind of, like tie it real tight at the bottom and pick it up, in a sling-like fashion.

But that's the scary part getting it lifted, secured.

Make sure the bottom's not rotted because we can't take you to the competition if it has as a rot on it.

Amanda> And you keep them shaded on the way to the competition.

Dr.

Huber> Yeah, usually keep some tarps on it just to keep, you know, some road debris from getting into it and whatnot.

I'll actually... Saran wrap it.

I'll run it, I'll run- <No> Yep.

Just just to keep it protected and keep the moisture in it.

These things lose weight the minute they're cut off the vine.

So they'll lose something like 20 pounds a day.

Amanda> And if it had all that wind- Dr.

Huber> Transpiration, yeah.

So we want to keep that covered.

And so we're wrapping plastic, tarps, plastic and so on.

Yeah.

Then we got to strap it down to the truck.

So, we load it into the truck and we have pool noodles to protect it so that those ratchet straps go over to secure it.

And the pool noodles protect it from getting bruised.

Amanda> Because you can't have it rolling around in the truck.

Dr.

Huber> That's right.

So you're securing the pallet, and then you're securing the pumpkin to the pallet and then the pallet to the truck bed.

And if it's too heavy you might have to pull it in a flatbed, a flatbed trailer behind the truck.

This one will, fortunately be able to fit in the back of a pickup truck, but if it was over 1,000 pounds, I might need to pull it behind.

Amanda> And then the watermelons are not nearly so much trouble most years.

Dr.

Huber> Right.

The weather has been all over the place this year, and so my fruit on the watermelons was a little smaller this year.

They're still big, but they're not where I hoped they'd be for this year.

Amanda> But, they're easy to transport fairly, relatively.

Cause they're not nearly so heavy.

Dr.

Huber> That's right.

Yeah we have these, just heavy duty lifting tarps.

And we kind of roll it under there and pick it up and, you know, everyone grabs a corner.

And if it's a 250 pound watermelon, you know, four people can, can manage it quite, easily.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, so you have this huge network of friends, even though right now you're down in St.

Matthews, South Carolina.

And with wonderful cohorts at South Carolina State University.

But you've got a nationwide and I think even international group of people.

Dr.

Huber> Yeah, yeah.

it's a really cool group, and we're all, we're all in different areas.

So we all do this kind of, like independently on our own.

But we're all, you know, we might be there's not really a cluster area of growers.

Now, there's a bunch in North Carolina, but they're all about an hour or so from each other.

And it's a very tight, we talk, text, call very frequently.

And we're all... we talk about the growing, and we share tips and we, I've learned a lot of this from some of these guys that are seasoned, that have done this for 20, 30 years.

So it's a, a great community.

People tend to not hold information from each other because everyone's environment is different.

Your yard, you know, my yard here compared to North Carolina, our soils may be different, especially if you're in the mountain part versus the coast.

And anyway it's a... you can tell someone all the information in the world, but you still got to replicate it in your environment and everyone's situation is different.

Amanda> Well, it sounds like you're doing pretty good.

And we wish you all the luck in the world.

Thanks for letting us come out.

Dr.

Huber> Absolutely.

Thanks for having me.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> Brandon's a lot of fun.

Sometimes we have supper with him at a restaurant in Saint Matthews, and, he and his wife add a lot to the, to the fun of the evening He just enjoys all these really strange things.

He's just like you and your strange things.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Great fun.

Anyway, so hats, hats, hats.

This one, I have some swamp milkweed that, Laura lee gave me.

Isn't that wonderful?

And, it's just, it's big and tall, and I just think it's a beautiful one.

And, so I cut a little bit of it because I want it to go to seed to have for them.

And then, Selaginella I think is just a nice filler.

That's the kind of lacy thing on here.

And it's really pretty.

I think and a nice filler and it's not native, but it just, it fills its space nicely and it's got a great, great texture, don't you think?

And then variegated Solomon's seal.

Solomon's seal doesn't work out well down here, but the variegated one does fine.

Needs some shade.

And, I was...I don't like to cut it much because, you know, it's the whole stalk.

So when I cut it, it really sets it back because it doesn't have any photosynthetic material again.

But for people, you know, I need to make hats, so, so hat people, or hat enthusiasts or whatever.

Vicky> Sacrifice the plant to make a hat.

Amanda> Yeah.

But it's just a beautiful, beautiful thing and do y'all carry that sometimes?

Davis> Uh huh.

Sure do.

Amanda> It's just wonderful.

But, you know, it doesn't spread very quickly and you have to kind of, kind of baby it along, anyway.

Not full sun.

Davis, we've got... Oh, goodness, this one's kind of stiff.

Interesting.

What we got here?

Davis> Well, we'll start with that one.

This is Lomandra.

It's, also known as a the variety is Platinum blond.

It's a, it's a, it's a really nice grass to help stabilize, just about any soil, because it's, it was tolerant of a lot of conditions.

This one is a little bit touchy in the upper part of the state, you know, up around, Greenville / Spartanburg.

Because it is a little cold sensitive.

But the further south you go in, in South Carolina, the, the better one, this one, the better this one will do.

It's, it thrives in sandy soil.

It does not like a lot of moisture, but it will adapt to clay soils.

And it's evergreen.

It keeps it's structure year round.

Amanda> Does it?

<Uh huh> Wow!

I think it's handsome.

Davis> Yeah.

It's a, it's a really nice one- Amanda> Is it something you can divide if it starts getting bigger or would you...?

Davis> You can, but it does develop a pretty, pretty dense root system.

So when you do dig it up, it may take a hatchet or a machete to divide it.

But, yeah, it can be divided.

Uh huh.

Sure can.

Amanda> I've got a Sawzall.

I use that for lots of things.

Davis> So, yeah that would work.

Amanda> Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Boy that's handsome Davis> I think it's pretty.

And, I also brought a couple of our, native grasses.

That one is, That is an introduced one.

But, these are examples of our native, purple love grass, Eragrostis.

This is a cultivar.

Amanda> I'm gonna turn this around because I can see, the seed head here.

Davis> Yeah, yeah, it's, it's also called... This one, this one is also called Bluer Than You.

<Yeah> because it does have more of a blue green color.

Although almost all of the love grasses do have that kind of- Amanda> But it's got purple in it too.

Davis> Hence the name Purple Love grass <Gosh> But, this one, this one is, a lot more, a little more ornamental than, than the species, which I'll bring up next, because this one does develop the really long, seed heads.

It does have sort of a unique color.

The other one that I brought is the species, Eragrostis, which is often used for roadside stabilization.

Amanda> Gosh, it's handsome too.

Davis> And it's got the I think the seed heads, these little delicate seeds, are just, <a treat> They, they really make the Fall, Fall season evident because when they start popping up, you know, that cool weather is on the way.

And, here again, this one is native, once it's established, it doesn't need any care other than, in the Spring when you first start to see the new growth, cut it back.

They're very drought tolerant.

And, here again, they do develop a pretty, pretty good root system.

So they're, they're- Amanda> So, if you've got an area that, you know, tends to erode or is real steep <right.> this would be great for it.

Davis> It's excellent.

Amanda> Now I guess it dies back in the winter and then comes back, but the structure is still going to be there and the roots.

So it's not going to impede its ability to stabilize the soil and all of that.

Davis> Right.

That's right.

Amanda> Gosh, that's really good looking.

Davis> I love this plant.

Amanda> Yeah I can...I mean the other one's more showy, but this one looks like a good little workhorse.

<Yeah.> Thank you so much.

Davis> You're welcome.

Amanda> Okay, Terasa.

Terasa> Let's see who we might help next.

Brennan in Columbia reached out and said, "My Red Maple is losing leaves really early.

What could cause this?

Amanda> Goodness.

Well, Jackie, I'm kind of against having Red Maples in your yard, unless you've got a real specific spot, but, what's your take on it?

Jackie> Well, we really say right plant, right place.

And this is a perfect example of a good native plant in the wrong place.

This tree is in Rosewood.

So there's a huge parking lot behind the tree.

So there's a lot of urban heat affecting this tree, but it's also a very shallow rooted tree.

And you see in the picture that there are two raised beds four feet away from the trunk.

So unfortunately Brennan has caused this issue because he's cut off oxygen to the root system.

And it's really important that we take that into consideration with our tree species that those shallow roots do need a lot of oxygen.

And with the Fall coming and being planting time, it's always a good reminder to tell people that you want to look for that root flare and make sure that, that is getting planted right at the surface level, so that the plant of the trees and even larger shrubs don't girdle themselves with the roots.

Amanda> And that's where the trunk starts growing down?

That's supposed to be also above ground.

Jackie> It is.

You want that at the soil level above the ground.

So, we also did some excavation.

I talked to Brennan about excavating, and the root flare is also a little buried a little bit deep, too.

He had come in, and not only had he placed the raised beds over the root system, but he had also done some volcano mulching you can see in there.

And, and so that also covered up the trunk.

So, not a lot of good practices.

But again, like you said, the Red Maple is not a good tree for urban settings.

It gets a lot of radiant heat from driveways, parking lots, the road.

Amanda> Yeah.

I mean, it, you know, it likes to be in the wet.

Jackie> Yeah.

<Yeah.> Other trees are a better choice and support more wildlife.

Amanda> Well or Nyssa sylvatica, <Yes.> which is just gorgeous.

Jackie> It is.

Amanda> And and you say they're available, Davis.

Davis> We, we normally have two or three different cultivars, or slightly different growth habits, but all have that spectacular Fall color.

Amanda> Gosh.

And they just stay- Jackie> They have a slightly weeping form, too, I love, thats- Amanda> They're beautiful.

Yeah, yeah.

Vicky> In a way, you still have to be really careful when you're planting these things because, like, when they're up potting them.

And as soon as they get in our landscape, they just, they, it's not always not always, but they'll stick it in the next pot and then put more, pour mix on it.

And then when the homeowner gets home and they put it in a hole, they're not, they're not excavating the top of it to find the root flare, And so they're saying, oh, well, you know, I only dug the hole as deep as the root ball, which is what you're supposed to do.

<Right?> But they didn't find the root flare first.

And so it, it starts out, yes, they planted it high, but it's still deep in the pot.

And you start looking for the root flare.

Amanda> So pull all that stuff off when you take it out of the pot.

Vicky> We're finding, when we're going out and we investigate this, we're finding the root flare, what, three or four, five, six inches- Jackie> Easily, usually seven, sometimes eight and ten inches too deep.

And the sad thing is, is it doesn't show the damage until 5 to 7 years after the tree has been planted Amanda> And it's too late to do anything.

Jackie> Right.

So, it looked great.

And and all of a sudden you get a sudden decline in your tree.

And sure enough, if you go down and look for the root flare, it's several inches down.

Amanda> You know, so don't be afraid.

When you bring something home, take it out of the pot and start pulling back and finding that It's extremely important to do.

Davis> It's usually pretty easy to find when you take it out of the pot, because you'll generally see a distinct line where above that line is soil, below that line is roots, and that line where, where the soil become roots.

That's pretty much where the root flare is going to be found.

Amanda> And also, that's another reason you're not supposed to put all this stuff in the hole.

Because if it's organic matter and as it, you know, gets, you know, degraded, which its supposed to then it's going to sink and you want that to stay, as you say, at or above.

Even above.

Yeah.

Vicky> So when you're putting these plants and that's something really important when you're, you're installing these plants in the, in the ground.

<Yes.> Don't backfill with extra stuff.

You want to backfill with whatever you took out that hole.

Amanda> The native soil.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And everybody thinks you know, oh it'll be so much happier if I give it all this happy stuff.

And so, you know, and then you mulch it.

And sometimes Jackie when I'm out doing stuff, I'll throw some compost on top of the mulch because I feel like that'll help it get some nutrients and things.

Vicky> But don't put it in a hole.

Amanda> Never in a hole.

Never.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And don't dig the hole deep, you know, and fill it back in because it's going to sink some.

So you know get a, you know get something and figure out just how deep you want it and make it just that deep.

Or as you say it's better to plant high than low, I believe.

Okay.

Well thanks for helping us with this because I just think trees are stunningly important as it gets hotter and you know.

Yeah.

You know, you know, I mean if, I didn't have my pecan trees all around my house, I don't know how we would have lived and grown up there.

Okay.

Terasa?

Terasa> Well, we have another tree question, but this one comes in from Kandy in Aiken, who would like to know why her Crape Myrtle is turning black.

Vicky> This is the, this is the sample that she brought me.

Amanda> Oh that's the worst looking thing I've ever seen.

Vicky> It is, it is pretty miserable looking.

And, and the reason that it's black is not because it is supposed to look this way.

Instead, this particular crape myrtle has crape myrtle bark scale.

And we talk about it a lot.

And the Clemson Extension Home and Garden Information Center, we have a fact sheet on crape myrtle bark scale.

And bark scale is a relatively newly introduced pest.

They found it in, what, Texas in like 2004.

But we found it in South Carolina in 2019, and it's a scale insect.

This is a felt scale, which is similar to a soft scale, all right.

But it's a different, it's a different family, but it's similar.

And, this particular felt scale does produce honeydew.

And so you can have a sooty mold fungi infestation like we have here.

And that's typically when people notice it is that your crape myrtles turn black.

And so this scale insect, the female, she lays her eggs and then she dies.

And then the eggs hatch in the springtime.

You'll have crawlers come out from underneath that cover.

And they'll they don't go very far, but there's lots and lots of them, you know, there can be anywhere from, just a few dozen to a couple hundred.

And each one of those females has that.

And they're not going to go far.

And then in the fall, you can have another flush of eggs and crawlers.

And so very, very quickly these populations can get out of hand.

And whenever it comes to a crape myrtle and we're talking about trees being contributing to wildlife, crape myrtles don't really do a lot for wildlife.

So when I'm talking to clients and I ask them, what is the, is this considered a high value tree for you?

If it's not considered a high value tree I do offer, one of the solutions is to remove the tree.

Amanda> Sure.

And put something that's native in that could be of use to the environment and to wildlife.

Vicky> This scale crape myrtle bark scale, it's called crape myrtle bark scale, but it can infest other plants in our landscape.

And so perhaps we would rather have a different plant that, that may not share a pest with our, with our other plantings.

Amanda> Well, and I've got several that are really important to me.

And I've been pouring something in as a herbicide, I mean, a pesticide that I've been putting on it.

Just because they're so important, you know, the rest of.

I'm just ready to let them go, because it's just.

Yeah, it's going to be everywhere, I think.

Vicky> Yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a a very common pest that we're seeing.

Amanda> And, you know, Jackie, so many places, the only trees that they have, everything in town is practically crape myrtles, you know, when you go to Charleston, walking around downtown, you know, they're going to have to come up with something new, I'm afraid.

Vicky> Well, I mean, it's a tough plant.

They plant it in the, in the parking lots, in that, that, that strip between the road and the sidewalk.

And they're tough.

They really are.

But Amanda> They're supposed to be attractive.

Vicky> Whenever, whenever you're over planting them, that's when you're finding out that we're having pests.

So.

And this happens to be the case for crape myrtle Bark scale.

Davis> Well, any time that you've got a monoculture like this, if a pest comes in and takes a liking to a particular plant and they're everywhere, then the pest is going to go everywhere, too.

Amanda> So how do they spread?

Vicky> So, a lot of times they can you'll have, your wildlife come through there.

You'll have birds come in, like they can be you know, caught on the bird and things like that.

The males do fly, the females don't.

They're sedentary, but, a lot of times it's from infected plants that they're, they're closely packed together.

And, I mean, it just happens.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, Thank you and, No, thanks.

(laughing) Oh, goodness.

Awe.

Well, something happy to learn about bats with Jennifer Kindel of S.C.D.N.R., and, bats are misunderstood and bats are just among the most wonderful, wonderful animals in the world.

Amanda> Well, I am so excited.

I'm talking with Jennifer Kindel.

and she's the bat specialist at the South Carolina Department of Natural Resources.

And Jennifer, I just love bats.

Jennifer> And we are so lucky that you love bats.

Amanda> I just do.

I do.

But why are bats important?

Why should we all embrace bats, at least?

>> Well, bats do a lot for us whether or not we realize it.

So they really benefit us in terms of eating insects and keeping insect populations down.

So our agricultural industry really relies on bats.

Amanda> People say they eat all the mosquitoes.

From what I've heard, that's not a huge part of their diet.

But I have heard that, you know, I thought they had to go good things that were flying.

But I've heard that in an agricultural setting, they actually can take the insects off the plant.

<Yes> Amanda> And they do a tremendous amount.

And that's, you know, like millions and millions and millions of dollars.

Jennifer> Yes, exactly.

Yeah.

So it depends on the bat species.

So little brown bats actually do eat a lot of mosquitoes.

But we've got and so they'll eat 150 mosquitoes every 10 minutes.

Amanda> Whew.

Jennifer> Which equals about 6000 - 8000 insects in an evening... <That's a lot> Yeah, so...but big brown bats do eat the beetles and other larger insects and so they'll eat.... What was it like 150 big brown bats can eat 1.5 million pests per year and prevent 33 million larva from hatching.

We've also got Brazilian free-tailed bats, which of course, is the fastest flying animal on the planet, <Is it?> Yes.

And it's...it's a very common bat that we have in attics and, unfortunately but also that use bat boxes and those can eat the corn worm.

I think it's called the the corn earworm moth.

They eat a lot of those so that really helps <How about that?> a lot of things.

Yeah.

they're, depending on the species, they eat different kinds of things.

So it's nice to have a lot of species.

We have 15 different species here, which is pretty exciting.

Amanda> Didn't you just find a new one that is documented in South Carolina?

Jennifer> Yes.

We were really excited to find the gray bat, which is an endangered species that actually seems to be doing well.

I think one of the reasons it's still considered endangered is because their populations are and they like to... They're a colonial rooster that come together in big caves.

So there's only so many caves that they exist in right now.

And so, you know, a natural disaster could potentially wipe them out, unfortunately.

But they seem to be doing well and they're not their populations aren't declining from white nose syndrome, which is nice.

So in any case, we found them just in a Blue Ridge eco region of South Carolina this fall, roosting in little crevices of bridges.

So it took us about four years to find them.

But we tried a lot of different things as a whole story, and we're really excited to finally add them to our list.

Amanda> Well, and we had a nurse colony in our attic.

Jennifer> Yeah.

Amanda> And they went in a soffitt, whatever a soffitt is.

But we- in the afternoon we'd go out and watch them emerge and we have clampboards and they look like mercury.

And then they just kind of ...flow out like mercury and then they just take off.

Jennifer> Totally.

It's just so fun to watch, right?

because like, like you said, it's a great description.

They're just like falling out and, and you know, it's really fun to watch them emerge from bat boxes.

It's kind of the easiest, most relaxing way to survey for an animal.

I think as you'd sit back in a, in a chair with your favorite drink and, you know, just watch them come out and estimate their numbers, while, the sun's setting and it's really fun.

And then you're watching them eat all the insects around you, too.

So.

Amanda> They're considered an indicator species.

So they're kind of, the health of the bat population in your area is somewhat indicative of the health of your ecosystem.

Jennifer> That's right.

Yes.

So bats do bio accumulate chemicals just like birds do and other creatures.

So one thing I always tell people is they're the natural predator of insects.

And so when you're spraying pesticides, you're, you end up hurting the natural predator of the things you're trying to kill.

So keeping an eye on... Amanda> Because they can't wash their food.

Jennifer> Right.

Exactly.

Yes.

Yes.

And so.

So yeah.

So, so some of the numbers and I guess I didn't I didn't say those.

But in terms of what bats save the Ag industry, it's $23 billion dollars, they save the Ag industry for the U.S.

every year.

And then in South Carolina, it's $115 million dollars, that bats save our agricultural industry.

So it's a lot of money.

And they, yeah, they really help out our farmers.

So if you know, I know a farmer in Georgia who had pecans, put up bat boxes and because their bats protect pecans, as well.

And so eating all the insects that destroyed pecans and so they were able to stop using pesticides because they put up a few bat boxes and had thousands of... Brazilian free-tailed bats.

Amanda> Good heavens.

Jennifer> Those things.

Yes.

So, I'm like yes.

That's such a great story.

Amanda> Pecans are native to this part of the world.

And then the bats, gosh, it just all fits together beautifully.

Jennifer> It does.

Yeah.

Amanda> Jennifer, people are always concerned about bats and rabies.

And rabies is an extraordinarily serious concern, but how often are bats carrying rabies and what's the protocol and what do you know about that?

Jennifer> Yes.

So bats are not riddled with disease as...as people do think sometimes.

So less than 1% of natural bat populations have rabies.

But as you said, rabies is scary.

So it's important to understand it and what you can do around bats.

So, for example, any...any bat that's down on the ground is on the ground is probably not doing very well.

So it's always good to, you know, teach your kids and other adults never touch a bat, a downed bat because it's probably not healthy.

So if you get a bat in your house, for example, you know, the first thing you need to do is once you see it in the house, make sure you isolate it, get everyone out of that room and isolate the bat and then call D.H.E.C.

because they will walk you through the three potential exposure scenarios.

And if you're not, if none of those three things happen, then you can go ahead and let the bat out.

But if they had, they'll...they'll talk to you about what the next steps are.

Amanda> Okay.

Jennifer> And so those three things are if you wake up with a bat in your room, it's possible a bat could have bit you without you knowing it.

So that's potential exposure.

The other is if you have you know, if you've picked up a bat or touched a bat with your bare hands, that's potential exposure that could have bitten you, you maybe would have known.

And then the third, of course, is if you have pets or children or anyone who might not be able to tell you that they've gotten bit by a bat.

So that's the third potential exposure.

So... Amanda> So, don't open the window and shove, you know, skew it off, wait, call D.H.E.C.

and then do it.

Jennifer> Yes, perfect.

I know it's the first reaction, but just isolate it first.

Amanda> No, we want to be careful.

Jennifer> Yeah, because that way they'll be able to test the bat.

And if it's negative, then you don't have any worries at all.

And if you do, if it is, if it is positive, then they'll help you learn more about getting the... Amanda> what you need to do... the vaccine.

Amanda> Yeah.

Save your life.

Jennifer> Yeah.

Exactly.

Amanda> I am always trying to tell people to be less tidy in their yards.

I'm trying to promote Ptolemy's home grown national park movement and all that.

So I love Palmetto Trees, which are not a tree, but it is our state tree.

Jennifer> Yeah.

Amanda> So many people go out there and tidy them up and tidy them up and tidy them up.

And I understand that some of our bats like to take shelter or roost under those old fronds that are hanging down.

Jennifer> Yes, exactly.

Yes.

So we had this beautiful bat called the northern yellow bat.

That's a very rare coastal bat.

And it's actually one of our largest bats and it loves to use those dead palm fronds, so it'll roost underneath those for protection.

So that's a good reason to leave them is, is you might have this very rare bat using, using the palm fronds.

Amanda> Since I love bats, I'd like to put maybe some bat boxes up if they're- Are they often used by bats?

If I put one up, you think eventually I'll have some bats in it?

Jennifer> Yes.

If you do it right.

So you have to put them up a certain amount of distance from the ground so they can fall out and catch the air.

I have some like 12 feet high.

It's a little challenging to get those up.

But once you do, they also they also need to have sun.

That's like 6 hours of sunlight.

Amanda> All right.

Jennifer> Probably closer to four on the coast because it gets pretty toasty, but that keeps the pups warm also.

That's which is really important.

So if you do all the right things and the bats need the habitat, they will use it.

But sometimes it can take up to three years before they start.

Amanda> Now I guess there are bats everywhere, except Antarctica.

I don't know.

Jennifer> Yeah, right, exactly.

Yep.

They're worldwide.

Amanda> And lots of them are pollinators.

Jennifer> Yes.

Amanda> Some of them are big.

Some of them are fruit eaters.

Jennifer> Oh, my goodness.

Amanda>Tell me a bit about them.

Jennifer> Okay, so... We have over 1400 species of bats in the world and we have our insectivorous bats here, which is the little guys.

But there are bats called flying foxes, which are amazing.

If you take a look, you will see on the Internet a six foot wingspan is the biggest Amanda> That's huge.

Jennifer> And I like it... It's scary when you first look at it.

But, but understand they are fruit bats and they help by pollinating and spreading seeds.

Amanda> Spread the seeds.

So, when we release... Jennifer> Yes, yes.

And so we really benefit from them even though they don't live here in that they pollinate things like the agave plants.

So we can thank them for tequila.

They also pollinate banana plants so... you can thank them the morning with your ...your breakfast banana.

And then they also spread the seeds of cocoa.

So also, think you can thank them for chocolates and they spread the seeds of pepper and I think 500 other...other species.

So they do a lot.

And then they also protect a lot of our crops, as we mentioned before.

So they'll protect cotton and corn and rice and coffee.

Amanda> Golly Jennifer> So yeah, you can spend a full day eating things that bats provide, help provide you between bananas and coffee and chocolate and tequila depending on your day.

Okay.

Amanda> And so I imagine you've probably got a page on your website, D.N.R., about bats.

Jennifer> Yes, And we do...we do, And we have a lot on there.

So feel free to check it out.

But there's...there's some information about our Bat Watch program, which is a citizen science program.

If you know, if you have bats in a box and you want to count them, you can do that twice a year and put the number of.

Amanda> Like the great American bird count.

>> Yes.

Yes.

So that's pretty fun.

And then, yeah, a lot of information about, you know, different species we have here.

Amanda> Reasons to love bats.

Jennifer> Yes, so many reasons to love bats.

Amanda> Jennifer, I want to thank you so much.

I hope that people will realize that these creatures were here before we were and that we have to make room for them in our...in our lives and that they can bring you a lot of joy.

Jennifer> They really can.

I mean, you would be surprised if you go out and watch bats coming out of a box.

You might be like, okay, that's kind of cool.

Amanda> Well, it was cool of you to come down and tell us.

Thanks so much.

Jennifer> Thank you for having me.

Appreciate it.

The work that Jennifer is doing is very important, and we should all find ways to help this population that is somewhat endangered.

Davis.

Good gracious.

Davis> This is another one of those cautionary tales of native plants.

Just because a plant is an American native doesn't necessarily mean it's good.

This is Comptonia or Sweet Fern.

It does look like a fern but it is a vascular plant.

It's great for here again for soil stabilization and erosion control.

But it is one of those plants that if it's happy, you'll, you'll always have it.

It does develop a really intense, massive, dense root system.

So it's really good for erosion control.

And it is, it's more of a, a Western native and a plain state native.

It's extremely drought tolerant once it's established and it's got a lot of good things going for it.

But plant it with caution because once it's there, it's always going to be there.

Amanda> Okay.

Thanks for the warning.

Okay.

Thank you all for being here.

Gosh, what a treat it is when y'all are with us.

And at home, thank you for being with us and we hope you'll see us next time.

Night.

Night.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

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