>> THIS IS THE VPR VERMONT PBS GOVERNOR'S DEBATE ON "VERMONT EDITION."

I'M JANE LINDHOLM, HERE WITH BOB KINZEL IN FRONT OF A LIVE AUDIENCE IN VPR'S STETSON STUDIO ONE.

THROUGHOUT THIS MONTH, VPR AND VERMONT PBS ARE TEAMING UP FOR A SERIES OF DEBATES THAT ARE BROADCAST LIVE ON BOTH THE RADIO AND ON TELEVISION.

WE'RE HEARING FROM CANDIDATES FOR STATEWIDE AND FEDERAL OFFICE IN AN EFFORT TO HELP YOU MAKE INFORMED CHOICES WHEN YOU GO TO OUT TO VOTE ON NOVEMBER 6th.

IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY.

TODAY'S DEBATE IS WITH THE TWO MAJOR PARTY CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR.

INCUMBENT REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR PHIL SCOTT OF BERLIN, WHO IS SEEKING A SECOND TERM.

AND DEMOCRATIC CHALLENGER CHRISTINE HALLQUIST OF HYDE PARK, FORMER CEO OF THE VERMONT ELECTRIC COOPERATIVE.

WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.

IT'S A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU HERE TODAY.

>> THANK YOU.

I'M HONORED TO BE HERE.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US ON.

>> HERE'S THE FORMAT WE'RE USING THROUGHOUT THE CAMPAIGN 2018 DEBATES.

THE FIRST SEGMENT, WE'LL ASK COMMON QUESTIONS OF BOTH CANDIDATES.

IN THE SECOND SEGMENT, YOU'LL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK EACH OTHER QUESTIONS WITH A BRIEF FOLLOW-UP QUESTION.

THEN WE'LL TURN TO A SERIES OF QUESTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED BY VERMONTERS.

IF WE HAVE TIME, I HOPE WE DO, WE'LL HAVE A LIGHTNING ROUND OF QUESTIONS WITH VERY BRIEF ANSWERS.

AND WE'LL CONCLUDE OUR PROGRAM WITH ONE-MINUTE CLOSING STATEMENTS FROM EACH CANDIDATE.

>> AN SHOWER GOING TO GO BY VERY FAST.

LET'S GET RIGHT INTO THE QUESTIONS AND I HOPE CANDIDATES WILL LIMIT THEIR ANSWERS TO 60 SECONDS.

WE MAY ASK FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS.

>> CHRISTINE HALLQUIST, LET'S START WITH YOU THIS EVENING.

DURING THIS CAMPAIGN, YOU HAVE PROPOSED A NUMBER OF INITIATIVES THAT WILL COST MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, INCLUDING A WATER QUALITY PLAN, PAID FAMILY LEAVE, PRIMARY HEALTH CARE FOR ALL VERMONTERS, FREE TUITION AT PUBLIC COLLEGES.

BUT YOU HAVE FAILED TO IDENTIFY A FUNDING SOURCE FOR THESE PROPOSALS.

NOW, IN THE PAST YOU'VE SAID YOU BELIEVE IN A MORE COLLABORATIVE APPROACH TO GOVERNING.

NOT WHAT YOU CALL COMMAND AND CONTROL.

BUT IS IT -- ISN'T LEADERSHIP LETTING PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THESE OPTIONS ARE SO THEY CAN DETERMINE IF THE TRADEOFF IS WORTH IT?

>> LET ME TELL YOU, I THINK GREAT LEADERSHIP IS A LONG-TERM VISION AND PULLING PEOPLE TOGETHER TO THE LONG-TERM VISION.

WE'VE LACKED A LONG-TERM VISION OF WHAT THIS STATE COULD LOOK LIKE.

I'M VERY BULLISH ABOUT WHAT THE STATE CAN LOOK LIKE.

SO A GOOD LEADER, A GOOD LEADER KNOWS HOW TO CONTROL COSTS.

I KNOW HOW TO DO THAT BECAUSE I'VE RECENT ELECTRIC UTILITY THAT DIDN'T HAVE RATE INCREASES FOR FIVE YEARS.

ALSO A GOOD LEADER KNOWS HOW TO BUILD A REVENUE PLAN IN ORDER TO ACCOMPLISH THE GOALS WE WANT TO ACHIEVE.

SO I HAVE A VERY GOOD PLAN FOR HOW TO GROW VERMONT AND GROW THOSE REVENUES IN ORDER TO PAY FOR THOSE PROGRAMS OVER THE LONG TERM.

>> YOUR REPUBLICAN OPPONENT PHIL SCOTT SAYS HE'LL OPPOSE ANY TAX INCREASE IN THE NEXT TWO YEARS.

YOU'VE DESCRIBED THAT APPROACH AS BEING A GIMMICK.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THOSE FOLKS WHO FEEL YOUR DECISION NOT TO IDENTIFY ANY FUNDING SOURCES IS BASICALLY A GIMMICK TOO?

>> WELL, IT'S NOT THAT BEHAVEN'T IDENTIFIED FUNDING SOURCES.

IF YOU TAKE SOME OF THOSE ITEMS WE HAVE IDENTIFIED FUNDING SOURCES, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS MAKING VERMONT A BETTER PLACE -- MAKING A FUTURE FOR OUR CHILDREN, THAT'S BETTER THAN THE FUTURE WE HAVE AS OPPOSED TO TODAY, OUR CHILDREN ARE WORSE OFF THAN THE GENERATIONS BEFORE.

IF YOU LOOK AT -- WE SEE WHAT'S HAPPENED AS A RESULT OF THIS GIMMICK OF PAYING DOWN TAXES AND ONE-TIME MONEY.

WE SAW A RATINGS DOWNGRADE TODAY.

>> PHIL SCOTT, YOU'VE DECLARED YOU'LL OPPOSE TAX INCREASES TO SUPPORT THE STATE BUDGET OVER THE NEXT TWO YEARS.

DOESN'T THAT MEAN THAT THERE WILL BE NO PROGRESS ON A NUMBER OF KEY ISSUES AND THAT A VOTE FOR PHIL SCOTT IS BASICALLY A VOTE TO MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO?

>> NO, NOT AT ALL.

IN FACT, WE'VE PROVED WHAT YOU CAN DO.

I PUT A LINE IN THE SAND.

WE'VE BEEN RAISING TAXES AND KNEE-JERK REACTION TO EVERY ISSUE IT SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN, LET'S JUST RAISE ANOTHER TAX IN ORDER TO PAY FOR IT.

I BELIEVE THERE'S MONEY WITHIN THE SYSTEM, WE CAN FIND EFFICIENCIES WITHIN STATE GOVERNMENT, WE FOUND THEM, AS WELL AS ORGANIC GROWTH.

IT'S A FALLACY IN SOME RESPECTS TO SAY WE DIDN'T RAISE A SINGLE TAX OR FEE OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS FOR THE GENERAL FUND BUDGET.

BUT WE ACTUALLY SPENT MORE MONEY THAN WE DID IN PREVIOUS YEARS.

BECAUSE OF ORGANIC GROWTH.

WE NEVER THAT IT'S GOING TO GROW.

IN FACT, WE HAD MORE MONEY ON THE BOTTOM LINE THAN WE HAD IN DECADES.

SO WE HAD A SURPLUS AS A RESULT OF HAVING CONTROL OF OUR BUDGET.

AND I THINK WE CAN CONTINUE TO DO THAT.

TAXES AND FEES, RAISING FEES ARE SOMETHING WE MAY HAVE TO LOOK AT.

BUT TAXES ARE SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE THE LAST RESORT.

>> LET'S LOOK AT PAID FAMILY LEAVE.

YOU OPPOSE A MANDATORY PLAN, BUT YOU SAY YOU WOULD BACK A VOLUNTARY PROGRAM.

ISN'T THE REALITY THAT INSURANCE PROGRAMS LIKE THIS ONE ONLY WORK WHEN YOU HAVE A LARGE POOL OF PEOPLE PAYING FOR IT?

SO YOUR VOLUNTARY APPROACH IS REALLY A NONSTARTER?

>> NOT NECESSARILY.

IN SOME RESPECTS -- FIRST OF ALL, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE PAID FAMILY LEAVE BILL THAT CAME THROUGH.

EVEN THE JOINT FISCAL OFFICE SAID THAT IT WAS UNSUSTAINABLE, THAT IT WAS UNDER FUNDED AND THAT SMALL PERCENTAGE ON THE PAYROLL TAX, AGAIN, I SAID NO TAX AND FEES.

THAT'S A LINE IN THE SAND.

I'M NOT GOING TO -- VERMONTERS CAN'T AFFORD IT AND WE DON'T NEED IT AT THIS POINT IN TIME.

A VOLUNTARY PROGRAM COULD WORK.

I KNOW NEW HAMPSHIRE IS TALKING ABOUT IT, I'V I'M LOOKING FORWAO ENGAGING WITH THERNLINGS MAYBE WE CAN HAVE A LARGER POOL WHERE WE CAN WORK TOGETHER AND HAVE A VOLUNTARY PROGRAM.

>> IT'S LEGAL TO GROW AND/OR POSSESS SMALL AMOUNTS OF MARIJUANA IN VERMONT, UNDER STATE LAW.

BUT VERMONT DOESN'T HAVE A TAX AND REGULATE SYSTEM, HOWEVER, FOR RETAIL SALES OF MARIJUANA.

CANADA DOES.

EARLIER THIS MONTH, CANADA BECAME THE SECOND COUNTRY TO LEGALIZE RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA NATIONWIDE.

AND SO TOO, SOON WILL MASSACHUSETTS HAVE RETAIL SHOPS, MAYBE AS SOON AS THE NEXT WEEK OR TWO.

PHIL SCOTT, IN MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT THE STATE OF VERMONT THAT BENEFIT THE STATE, YOU SOMETIMES EMPHASIZE AREAS WHERE VERMONT MAY BE AT A COMPETITIVE DISADVANTAGE IN RELATION TO NEIGHBORING STATES AND PROVINCES.

IF WE DO OR DON'T PASS A LAW.

IN THIS CASE, VERMONT COULD BE SEEN TO BE AT A COMPETITIVE DISADVANTAGE TO NEIGHBORING STATES AND TO QUEBEC, WHICH WILL ALLOW RETAIL SALES OF MARIJUANA.

SO WOULD YOU STILL VETO A BILL THAT COMES ACROSS YOUR DESK NEXT YEAR IF A RELIABLE ROADSIDE 19 RATION TEST IS NOT YET AVAILABLE?

>> YES.

I BELIEVE -- I DON'T BELIEVE WE'RE READY FOR TAX AND REGULATE SYSTEM AT THIS TIME.

I THINK WE CAN LEARN A LOT FROM MASSACHUSETTS, MAINE IS GOING TO FOLLOW SUIT AS WELL AS CANADA.

AND SO THE MORE STATES MOVE FORWARD WITH LEGALIZATION, A TAX REGULATED SYSTEM, THE LESS MONEY THERE IS.

I DON'T BELIEVE THIS SHOULD BE ABOUT MONEY.

I THINK IT'S TOO IMPORTANT.

I THINK THERE SHOULD BE AN EDUCATION COMPONENT AS WELL AS A ROADSIDE TESTING OF SOME SORT.

AND IT'S NOT JUST FOR MARIJUANA.

BECAUSE WE HAVE SOME OTHER ISSUES AS WELL.

WE HAVE ALCOHOL, WE HAVE PRESCRIPTION DRUGS, AND HEROIN.

AND MARIJUANA.

AND A COMBINATION OF ALL OF THEM TOGETHER.

SO REALLY, IT'S ABOUT WHETHER YOU'RE IMPAIRED ON THE HIGHWAY.

AND IT DOESN'T ALWAYS HAVE TO DO WITH THE THC LEVEL, OR THE ALCOHOL LIMIT, OR ANY OF THE ABOVE.

IT'S A COMBINATION OF ALL.

SO I BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD LOOK INTO SOME WAY, AND I'M SURE OTHER STATES ARE STRUGGLING WITH THIS AS WELL, SOME WAY TO DETECT IMPAIRMENT ON THE HIGHWAY BEFORE WE MOVE FORWARD.

AND MORE EDUCATION FOR OUR KIDS.

>> TO BE CLEAR, YOU VETO ANY BILL ON RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA, RETAIL SALES, UNTIL THERE'S A RELIABLE ROADSIDE TEST, EVEN IF THAT'S SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT YEARS DOWN THE ROAD?

>> ROADSIDE TEST AND EDUCATION.

I BELIEVE IT HAS TO BE BOTH.

AND I BELIEVE WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO.

WE CAN LEARN FROM THE OTHER STATES.

AND WE CAN PUT FORTH -- BECAUSE THIS ISN'T SOMETHING WE HAVE TO DO.

THIS IS ABOUT WANT AND NEED ARE SOMETHING I ALWAYS TAKE A LOOK AT.

THIS IS A WANT, NOT A NEED.

SO LET'S DO IT RIGHT.

IF WE'RE GOING TO DO IT, LET'S DO IT RIGHT AND MAKE SURE WE PROTECT OUR CITIZENS.

>> CHRISTINE HALLQUIST, YOU'VE SAID YOU WOULD WORK WITH THE LEGISLATURE TO MAKE SURE VERMONT HAD A TAX AND REGULATE SYSTEM FOR RETAIL MARIJUANA IN YOUR FIRST TERM AS GOVERNOR.

BUT I HAVEN'T SEEN A LOT OF SPECIFICS OF WHAT YOU THINK THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE.

CAN YOU GIVE AT LEAST A FEW EXAMPLES OF WHAT YOU WOULD WANT OR WHAT YOU WOULD REJECT IN ANY LEGISLATIVE PLAN?

FOR EXAMPLE, WOULD YOU ALLOW TOWNS TO SAY THEY WOULD PROHIBIT ANY RETAIL SHOPS WITHIN THEIR JURISDICTION?

IS THAT SOMETHING YOU WOULD ALLOW?

OTHER THINGS YOU'D LIKE OR NOT LIKE.

>> YES.

FIRST OF ALL, LET ME MAKE THE POINT THAT FROM A SAFETY STANDPOINT, WE'RE IN THE MOST DANGEROUS PLACE RIGHT NOW.

I'M GOING TO ARGUE MOVING TO TAX AND REGULATE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE FROM THE SAFETY PERSPECTIVE.

WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THE MARIJUANA IS COMING FROM, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S BEEN GROWN WITH, WHAT IT'S BEEN SPRAYED WITH AND WORSE YET, YOU CAN SEE SITUATIONS LIKE NEW YORK STATE WHERE IT'S CUT WITH OTHER THINGS, AND OTHER THINGS OF ADDICTIVE AND DANGEROUS PROPERTIES.

SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FROM A SAFETY STANDPOINT TO MOVE TO TAX AND REGULATE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

NOW, FROM -- I WOULD WANT LAWS THAT HELPED OUR FARMERS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, BUT HAS APPROPRIATE QUALITY TESTING, I SPENT THE -- A COUPLE WEEKS AGO I SPENT THE AFTERNOON IN THE MILTON MEDICINAL GROWING LABORATORY.

THEY DO -- THEY HAVE GREAT, VERY EFFECTIVE TESTING.

AND I WOULD LOOK AT SMALL GROWERS WOULD USE THOSE COOPERATIVE TESTING FACILITIES.

AND, YES, I WOULD CERTAINLY WOULD NOT WANT TO GET INTERFERE WITH THE COMMUNITIES.

IF COMMUNITIES DON'T WANT TO SELL IT, IT WOULD BE UP TO THEM.

BUT WE'RE -- WE HAVE STATES AND COUNTRIES ALL AROUND US THAT ARE DOING THIS.

SO WE ARE MISSING A FINANCIAL OPPORTUNITY.

BUT I'M GOING TO ARGUE THIS STRICTLY FROM A SAFETY PERSPECTIVE.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE UNAVAILABILITY CURRENTLY OF A RELIABLE AND EASY-TO-ADMINISTER ROADSIDE TEST?

>> WELL, I -- OUR FOCUS -- WE ALWAYS FOCUS ON BEHAVIOR BEFORE WE EVEN GAVE TESTS IN THE EMPLOYMENT WORLD.

IT REALLY IS, IF SOMEBODY IS DRIVING ERRATICALLY, THEY SHOULD BE PULLED OVER FOR DRIVING ERRATICALLY.

AND THEN THE TEST CAN BE GIVEN AS A BLOOD TEST LATER ON.

BUT WE SHOULDN'T BE PULLING PEOPLE RANDOMLY OVER TO BE THERE SHOULD BE A DIRECT CAUSE AND EFFECT BETWEEN THE DRIVING BEHAVIOR AND PULLING PEOPLE OVER.

>> CAN I ADD SOMETHING TO THE BLACK MARKET ASPECT?

>> SURE.

>> I WAS APPROACHED, I WAS AT A PIG ROAST AND SOME YOUNG MAN CAME UP TO ME, NOT A YOUNG MAN, MIDDLE AGED MAN, CAME UP TO ME AND SAID, WANTED TO TALK ABOUT MARIJUANA.

AND I THOUGHT, HERE IT COMES.

HE'S GOING TO GIVE ME A HARD TIME ABOUT THE -- WHAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW.

AND HE SAID, I JUST WANT TO LET YOU KNOW, IF YOU THINK I'M GOING TO PAY 25% MOR MORE FOR MY POT,U GOT ANOTHER THING COMING.

I'M GOING TO CONTINUE TO BUY IT FROM WHERE I'M BUYING IT TODAY, I'M GOING TO CONTINUE TO GROW IT AND DO IT LIKE I'VE ALWAYS DONE IT.

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET 25% MORE OUT OF ME.

>> I WILL TELL YOU, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT CANADA IS DOING.

YOU'VE GOT TO TAX IT IN A PLACE YOU DON'T ENCOURAGE THE BLACK MARKET.

SO THAT'S -- OF COURSE 25%, MAYBE TOO MUCH, BUT 10 OR 15%, THAT MIGHT BE ADEQUATE.

THAT'S REALLY PART OF THE DESIGN OF THE PROGRAM, TO MAKE SURE YOU ELIMINATE THE BLACK MARKET, WHICH HAS HAPPENED EFFECTIVELY IN OTHER STATES AND OF COURSE CANADA IS NOW DOING THE SAME THING.

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S DONE ANYTHING FOR THE BLACK MARKET.

IT'S STILL THERE.

>> CHRISTINE HALLQUIST, LET'S TALK ABOUT ACT 46, VERMONT'S SCHOOL DISTRICT CONSOLIDATION LAW.

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION RECENTLY ISSUED PROVISIONAL DECISIONS CONCERNING THE MERGERS OF VARIOUS SCHOOL DISTRICTS ACROSS THE STATE.

WE HAVE A DISTRICT IN CENTRAL VERMONT THAT DOES NOT WANT TO MERGE ITS FIVE ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS INTO A NEW SINGLE DISTRICT.

BUT THE BOARD IS SAYING THAT SHOULD HAPPEN.

SO IF IT COMES DOWN TO THIS, DO YOU SUPPORT THE FORCED MERGERS OF SCHOOLS IF THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION SAYS IT SHOULD HAPPEN?

>> WELL, I DON'T THINK WE EVER HAVE TO GO THERE.

I THINK FORCING COMMUNITIES TO DO THINGS AGAINST THEIR WILL IS AN INDICATION OF A LEADERSHIP FAILURE.

I KNOW, I HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF COLLABORATIVE LEADERSHIP, AND I KNOW THE EMPLOYEES AND THE -- OF THE COMPANY COME UP WITH THE BEST ANSWERS.

THE SCHOOL BOARDS AND TEACHERS WILL COME UP WITH THE BEST ANSWERS IF YOU WORK WITH THEM.

EVERY COMMUNITY HAS A DIFFERENT ISSUE.

I THINK WHEN YOU START FORCING PEOPLE TO DO THINGS YOU SHOULD LOOK AT IT AS A FAILURE OF LEADERSHIP.

THAT'S WHAT I FAULT, COMMAND AND CONTROL LEADERSHIP IS A FAILED LEADERSHIP MODEL.

SO I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENED HERE IS WE HAVEN'T WORKED COLLABORATIVELY WITH THE TOWNS, WE CAN COME UP WITH BETTER SOLUTIONS, SO I DISAGREE WITH FORCED -- FORCING THINGS.

>> WHAT ABOUT THOSE TOWNS THAT HAVE ALREADY MERGED?

THAT DIDN'T WANT TO BE FORCED TO CONSOLIDATE WITH ANOTHER TOWN, SO THEY WENT AHEAD WITH THEIR OWN PLAN.

I MEAN, DO THEY GET ANOTHER CHANCE AT THIS TOO?

>> WELL, THIS IS ABOUT BEING CIVILIZED.

LAST NIGHT I WAS DOWN IN CHESTER, A WOMAN FROM REDDING CAME UP TO ME AND SAID, SHE'S GOING TO HAVE TO PUT HER KIDS ON A BUS OVER AN HOUR IN EACH DIRECTION.

WE'VE GOT FAMILIES WORKING TWO AND THREE JOBS AT A TIME, AND CREATING THIS LEVEL OF WHAT I'LL CALL UNCIVILIZED LIVING IS NOT SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE DOING.

SO I THINK IT'S A FLAW, WE SHOULDN'T JUST DO THINGS BECAUSE.

WE SHOULD DO THINGS BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO AND WE HAVE COME UP WITH THE BEST ANSWERS.

>> PHIL SCOTT, DO YOU SUPPORT THE PROVISIONS OF ACT 46 THAT ALLOW THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION TO MANDATE SCHOOL DISTRICT CONSOLIDATIONS AGAINST THE WILL OF LOCAL VOTERS?

>> LET'S GO BACK A LITTLE BIT.

ACT 46 WASN'T SOMETHING THAT I CRAFTED.

IT WASN'T -- IT WAS DONE BY THE DEMOCRATIC LEGISLATURE.

THEY HAVE CONTROL OF THIS, IT WAS PASSED, BUT IT'S THE LAW NOW.

AND WE'VE GONE THROUGH A LOT OF DEBATE ABOUT THIS, A LOT OF TOWNS AND DISTRICTS HAVE GONE THROUGH A LOT OF HEART ACHE ABOUT THIS VERY ISSUE.

BUT THIS IS A CONSOLIDATION ABOUT GOVERNANCE.

THIS IS A CONSOLIDATION OF SCHOOLS.

IT MAY COME TO THAT EVENTUALLY, BUT IT'S THE GOVERNANCE ISSUE.

AND WE'RE JUST FOLLOWING THE LAW AT THIS POINT.

AND SO I THINK WE HAVE A PROBLEM ON OUR HANDS.

AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT MANY TIMES BEFORE, WE HAVE 30,000 FEWER STUDENTS THAN WE DID 20 YEARS AGO, AND WE'RE SPENDING A BILLION SEVEN TO EDUCATE.

LEGISLATURE FINALLY TOOK ACTION AFTER YEARS OF HEARING ABOUT THE SCREAMS FOR RELIEF FROM PROPERTY TAXES, THEY TOOK ACTION ON THIS ISSUE.

SO I GIVE THEM CREDIT FOR DOING SO.

SO NOW WE HAVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH AND WE HAVE TO -- AND SOMETIMES IT'S PAINFUL.

BUT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH.

>> SO THAT'S A YES, YOU WOULD SUPPORT IT.

>> I SUPPORT THE BOARD ON THIS ISSUE.

THE LEGISLATION HAS PUT THEM IN CHARGE OF THIS, AND WE HAVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THAT.

>> SO TELL THE LOCAL SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS IN THESE CASES, WHY THE STATE IS MORE QUALIFIED TO MAKE THIS DECISION THAN ITS LOCAL CITIZENS.

>> GOVERNANCE ISSUE.

IT'S NOT A CONSOLIDATION OF THE SCHOOLS, IT'S THE CONSOLIDATION OF GOVERNANCE STRUCTURE.

AND WHEN YOU DO THAT, WHEN YOU BRING EVERYONE TOGETHER, YOU START TO SEE THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOME ECONOMIES OF SCALE.

YOU MIGHT SEE WHERE YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO SAVE MONEY IN A CERTAIN AREA.

I WAS AT EAST MONTPELIER THE OTHER DAY, AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THE KIDS THERE, ABOUT CODING.

NOT EVERY SCHOOL HAS CODING AT THIS POINT IN TIME, BUT MAYBE THEY CAN WORK WITH OTHER SCHOOLS AND USE THAT ONE CODING PROGRAM AND INTRODUCE THAT TO OTHER KIDS WITHIN THE DISTRICT.

SAME WITH A NURSE.

DO YOU NEED A NURSE FULL-TIME AT ONE SCHOOL?

MAYBE YOU CAN MOVE AROUND.

THERE ARE WAYS OF SAVING MONEY, BUT UNTIL YOU GET TOGETHER AND SEE WHAT OPPORTUNITIES EXIST IN OTHER AREAS OF EVEN YOUR OWN DISTRICT, USUAL NOT GOING TO FIND THEM.

>> MAY I POINT OUT THAT YOU SAID YOU'RE KIND OF OH, I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T MAKE THIS LAW.

SO I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT GOOD LEADERSHIP MEANS YOU DO THE RIGHT THING.

YOU DON'T HIDE UNDER THE FACT THAT OH, I HAVE NO CONTROL OF THE FUTURE.

>> YOU'RE SAYING THE LEGISLATURE DIDN'T TAKE THE LEADERSHIP ON THIS?

AND THEY FAILED?

>> NO, I'M SAYING IT NEEDS TO BE RELOOKED AT.

WE'VE GOT TO TAKE A DEEP DIVE, BECAUSE THERE ARE UNJUST THINGS HAPPENING -- >> YOU WANT TO UNWIND EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENED IN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS?

>> THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING.

I'M SAYING I'M GOING TO WORK COLLABORATIVELY WITH THOSE TOWNS TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION, RATHER THAN DICTATING THEM FROM MONTPELIER.

>> LET'S TACKLE ANOTHER TOPIC HERE.

RIGHT NOW THERE ARE ABOUT 200 PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED IN VERMONT COURTS AND SENTENCED TO PRISON TIME BUT ARE SERVING THAT TIME IN OUT OF STATE PRISONS.

THE FORMER COMPACT WITH THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA WAS CUT SHORT AFTER SEVERAL COMPLAINTS FROM INMATES AND AFTER THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THE ARRANGEMENT WAS NOT WORKING WELL.

THOSE INMATES MOVED TO A PRISON RUN BY THE FOR-PROFIT COMPANY CORE CIVIC IN MISSISSIPPI JUST A COUPLE WEEKS AGO NOW.

BOTH OF YOU HAVE SAID YOU'D LIKE TO SEE VERMONT KEEP ALL OF ITS PRISON POPULATION IN STATE.

PHIL SCOTT EVEN PROPOSED A 925-BED COMPLEX IN FRANKLIN COUNTY THAT WOULD HAVE HAD A FRAN SICK MENTAL HEALTH UNIT A. GERIATRIC UNIT A. HIGHER SECURITY FACILITY FOR PRISONERS WHO CAN'T BE SITUATED IN VERMONT'S FACILITIES CURRENTLY.

BUT THAT DIDN'T GET MUCH TRACTION.

SO I'M CURIOUS, THOUGH, IF BOTH OF YOU REALLY THINK WE CAN FIND A WAY FINANCIALLY AND IN TERMS OF THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE, TO GET ALL OF OUR PRISON POPULATION BACK TO VERMONT.

AND HOW WOULD YOU DO THAT?

PHIL SCOTT?

>> AGAIN, I'M NOT -- WE'RE NOT FINISHED WITH TRYING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT PROPOSAL.

I THINK IT HAS A LOT OF MERIT IN IT, IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.

THERE ACTUALLY NOW HAVE BEEN REDUCED FROM AROUND 250 TO AROUND 210 NOW, SO THAT'S GOOD NEWS IN SOME RESPECTS.

OUR PRISON -- OUR OFFENDER POPULATION HAS DECREASED ABOUT 500 OVER THE LAST NINE, 10 YEARS, SO THAT'S GOOD NEWS AS WELL.

BUT I DO THINK THAT WE CAN BRING EVERYONE UNDER THE STATE UMBRELLA AT SOME POINT IN TIME.

BUT IT'S NOT NOW.

WE SIMPLY CAN'T AFFORD IT.

WE DON'T HAVE THE FACILITIES TO DO IT.

AND SOME OF OUR AGING INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS TO BE REPLACED.

SO LET'S DO IT IN A WAY THAT -- AND AGAIN, WE STARTED THE CONVERSATION LAST YEAR, I BELIEVE THAT WE CAN CONTINUE WITH THAT CONVERSATION.

WE'LL COME TO SOME AGREEMENT EVENTUALLY ON THIS.

>> EVENTUALLY YOU THINK -- GO AHEAD.

>> YEAH.

WITHIN THIS -- I THINK WITHIN THE NEXT TWO YEARS, I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE -- I THINK WE ALL AGREE, I THINK IF YOU ASK THE LEGISLATORS, DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP, THEY UNDERSTAND THAT WE CAN'T BRING THEM BACK TODAY, BECAUSE WE SIMPLY DON'T HAVE THE FACILITIES AND WE CAN'T AFFORD IT.

SO I BELIEVE THAT WE CAN GET THROUGH SOME OF THE HURDLES, SOME OF THE OBSTACLES THAT THEY'VE PUT IN THE WAY OF MOVING FORWARD WITH A PLAN.

BECAUSE IT'S VERSATILE.

WE CAN BUILD IT MANY DIFFERENT AREAS, AND WE CAN BUILD IT IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS, IT'S JUST A CONCEPT THAT WE CAME UP WITH.

>> DO WE NEED A NEW PRISON FACILITY THAT HAS SOME OF THOSE UNITS YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE, A GERIATRIC FACILITY, WHETHER OR NOT WE BRING PRISONERS BACK FROM VERMONT?

>> YES, WE NEED TO REPLACE SOME OF OUR FACILITIES RIGHT NOW.

SOME OF THEM ARE OUTDATED, AND JUST LIKE VERMONT, WE'RE AGING.

OUR DEMOGRAPHICS ARE AGING IN THE STATE, THAT'S OUR BIGGEST HURDLE, BIGGEST CHALLENGE WE FACE AS A STATE.

BUT IT'S HAPPENING IN THE OFFENDER POPULATION AS WELL.

AND SO WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE CARE OF THEM.

SO AGAIN, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ADDRESS THIS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

>> CHRISTINE HALLQUIST, YOU'VE SEEN PHIL SCOTT'S PROPOSAL FOR HOW TO BRING PRISONERS BACK FROM OUT OF STATE.

HOW WOULD YOU DO IT?

>> WELL, I SPENT THE AFTERNOON IN THE NORTHWEST CORRECTION FACILITY, TALKING TO PRISONERS AND WORKING WITH GREG THE SUPERINTENDENT THERE.

AND I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF, WE HAVE MANY PRISONERS WHO DON'T BELONG THERE.

WHEN IT COMES TO ALCOHOL USE DISPODS, SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER, THE WORST PLACE YOU CAN PUT SOMEBODY IS IN A PRISON.

WE HAVE PEOPLE IN PRISON FOR MENTAL HEALTH DISORDERS, THEY SHOULDN'T BE IN PRISON, IT'S THE WORST PLACE YOU CAN PUT THEM.

THEN WE HAVE PEOPLE IN PRISON BECAUSE THEY OVERSTAYED -- THEY OVERSTAY THEIR SENTENCE BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A PLACE TO HOUSE THEM.

SO WE HAVE MANY PEOPLE IN PRISON TODAY WHO REALLY DON'T BELONG THERE.

AND SOMETIMES IT'S THE WORST PLACE TO PUT THEM.

AND SO I DID A PRESS CONFERENCE WITH T.J.

JOHNATHAN THE OTHER DAY, AND WE KNOW THAT WE CAN REDUCE THIS POPULATION BY PICKING THE LOW-HANGING FRUIT BY 250.

NOW, I AGREE, I LOOKED AT THE NORTHWEST CORRECTIONAL FACILITY, IT DOES NEED A REBUILD BUT WE DON'T NEED TO BUILD A NEW PRISON.

OUR GOAL SHOULD BE TO REDUCE THAT PRISON POPULATION.

THE UNITED STATES WE HAVE 5% OF THE POPULATION IN THE COUNTRY, WE INCARCERATE 25% OF OUR PRISONERS.

WE'VE GOT TO MOVE AWAY FROM REVENGE TO RESTITUTION.

AND I'LL GIVE A GOOD EXAMPLE.

I SPENT THE AFTERNOON IN WASHINGTON TREATMENT COURT, WASHINGTON TREATMENT COURT IN WASHINGTON COUNTY IS AN ALTERNATIVE TO INCARCERATION.

AND IT'S MUCH LESS EXPENSIVE AND MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE.

>> LET ME ASK YOU JUST A BRIEF FOLLOW-UP.

WHAT THE CORRECTIONS DEPARTMENT TELLS US IS THAT EVEN IF THERE WERE BEDS FOR EVERYBODY RIGHT NOW, YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO BRING EVERYBODY BACK, EITHER BECAUSE THEY NEED A HIGHER SECURITY FACILITY, OR BECAUSE THEY CAN'T BE PLACED WITH OTHER INMATES WITH WHOM THEY HAVE A PROBLEM OR ONE IS A VICTIM AND ONE IS AN OFFENDER.

HOW WOULD YOU ARRANGE FOR THAT?

>> LIKE I SAY, I'M NOT -- I'M SAYING WE CAN CUT IT BY 250.

THESE ARE THE NUMBERS THAT T.J.

FOCUSED ON.

>> BUT NOT THE SAME 250 WHO WOULD BE BROUGHT BACK -- >> NO, WE WOULD HAVE TOO MAKE CHANGES IN OUR PRISON TO HANDLE THOSE, BUT WE DON'T NEED TO BUILD AN ADDITIONAL PRISON.

THE LAST THING WE SHOULD BE DOING IS HOUSING OUR PRISONERS IN FOR-PROFIT PRISONS.

GOVERNOR HAS TAKEN DONATIONS FROM CORE CIVIC.

>> I WILL HAVE TO SAY THOUGH THAT THE FOR-PROFIT PRISON WAS JUST A CONCEPT TO BUILD THE PRISON, NOT TO ACTUALLY RUN THE PRISON.

SO WHAT WE WERE PLANNING WAS HAVING STATE EMPLOYEES RUN THE FACILITY.

SO THIS WAS JUST A CONCEPT.

AGAIN, WE CAN DO IT IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS, WE CAN BOND FOR IT, WE CAN BUILD IT OURSELVES, WE CAN HAVE ARCHITECTS DO IT.

BUT THIS WAS JUST ANOTHER WAY OF ACCOMPLISHING WHAT WE NEED TO ACCOMPLISH, BECAUSE THEY HAVE A HISTORY, AND THEY HAVE EXPERIECE DOING THAT.

>> WELL, WE'RE GOING TO LEAVE IT THERE FOR NOW.

THAT CONCLUDES THE FIRST SEGMENT OF OUR DEBATE.

WHEN WE COME BACK THE CANDIDATES WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK EACH OTHER QUESTIONS.

THIS SEEMS TO HAVE ALREADY STARTED IN THE FIRST PART OF THE DEBATE.

SO I'M REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO WHAT YOU HAVE TO ASK EACH OTHER.

THIS IS THE GOVERNOR'S DEBATE LIVE ON VPR AND VERMONT PBS.

>> HI, I'M HOLLY.

>> AND I'M SCOTT.

WE LIVE IN SERIOUS TIMES, FILLED WITH CHANGE AND UNCERTAINTY, AND VERMONT'S PUBLIC MEDIA OUTLETS ARE HERE TO SERVE OUR COMMUNITIES WITH TRUSTED UNBIASED INFORMATION.

AND TO BE A FORUM FOR CIVIL PUBLIC DISCOURSE.

>> THIS ELECTION SEASON, VERMONT PBS AND VPR HAVE JOINED FORCES TO BRING OUR VIEWERS AND LISTENERS A BROAD RANGE OF ELECTION COVERAGE.

FOR THE FIRST TIME IN OUR HISTORIES, WE BROUGHT RADIO TO T.V.

WITH THE VPR-VERMONT PBS DEBATES.

>> TOGETHER WE'VE ALSO CONDUCTED TWO PUBLIC OPINION POLLS TO FIND OUT WHERE YOU STAMPED ON ISSUES THAT IMPACT US ALL.

WITH THESE DEBATES AND POLLS, AND WITH CONTINUOUS NEWS COVERAGE, INTERVIEWS, AND CANDIDATE COMMENTARIES, WE BRING YOU THE INFORMATION YOU NEED TO MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS.

>> THAT'S THE POWER OF YOUR PUBLIC MEDIA.

WORKING TOGETHER, FOR THE GOOD OF ALL VERMONTERS TOWARDS A MORE INFORMED DEMOCRACY.

>> THIS IS THE VPR-VERMONT PBS GUBERNATORIAL DEBATE.

I'M JANE LINDHOLM, HERE WITH BOB KINZEL IN VPR'S STETSON STUDIO ONE.

JOINING US TODAY ARE THE TWO MAJOR PARTY CANDIDATES FOR VERMONT GOVERNOR, DEMOCRATIC CHALLENGER CHRISTINE HALLQUIST, AND INCUMBENT REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR PHIL SCOTT.

THE CANDIDATES WILL NOW HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK EACH OTHER QUESTIONS.

THE QUESTIONS NEED TO BE 30 SECONDS, RESPONSES ARE LIMITED TO 60 SECONDS, AND A BELIEVE FOLLOW-UP QUESTION WILL BE ALLOWED IF A CANDIDATE WANTS TO ASK IT.

>> CHRISTINE HALLQUIST, WHAT'S YOUR FIRST QUESTION FOR PHIL SCOTT?

>> PHIL, DURING THIS LAST SESSION, YOU WANTED TO USE ONE-TIME SURPLUS REVENUES AS A GIMMICK TO BUYDOWN TAXES.

MEANWHILE, THE LEGISLATURE WANTED TO USE THAT TO PAY OFF PENSION OBLIGATIONS.

INSTEAD YOU PUSHED NOT TO DO THAT AND USE IT TO PAY DOWN TAXES.

NOW MOODY'S HAS ANNOUNCED IT'S DOWNGRADING OUR -- VDZ'S CREDIT RATING DUE IN PART TO THOSE VERY PENSION OBLIGATIONS.

AND OF COURSE WHEN YOU DOWNGRADA DOWNGRADE YOU'VE GOT TO PAY MORE TO YOUR BANKS RATHER THAN USE IT FOR GOOD PROGRAMS.

GIVING THE CHANGE IN THE RATING STATUS, DO YOU -- WHICH WAS ENTIRELY FORESEEABLE, DO YOU NOW REGRET YOUR DECISION?

>> NOT AT ALL.

FIRST OF ALL, I DIDN'T END UP USING THAT MONEY TO PAY DOWN SOME OF OUR HIGH BURDENS OF TAXATION IN THIS STATE.

THEY DID USE IT TO PAY DOWN SOME OF THE PENSION.

NOW, YOU UNDERSTAND OF COURSE WHAT OUR PENSION OBLIGATION IS RIGHT NOW, RIGHT?

WHICH IS WHAT?

>> IT'S SEVERAL HUNDRED MILLION.

>> IT'S $3 BILLION.

SO $3 BILLION RIGHT NOW.

SO WE -- BACK IN 2007 WE MADE A DECISION, BECAUSE IT WAS UNDERFUNDED FOR SO MANY YEARS, TO GO ON THIS -- ALMOST LIKE A -- TAKE A MORTGAGE OUT, AND WE WERE GOING TO PAY THIS OVER 30 YEARS.

SO WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT, AND IT INCREASES EVERY YEAR.

THIS YEAR IT'S GOING TO GO UP ANOTHER $35 MILLION.

WE MADE $100 MILLION INVESTMENT LAST YEAR.

WE DID THAT IN OUR BUDGET.

SO WHAT THEY DID WAS, THEY WANTED TO USE MORE TO PAY THAT DOWN, GIVE THEM GREAT CREDIT FOR THAT.

BUT IT WAS GOING TO PAY IT ON THE OTHER END.

IN 2038, YOU WOULDN'T SEE THE BENEFIT UNTIL 2038.

SO THAT'S WHY I SAID WE NEED TO RIGHT NOW VERMONTERS ARE SUFFERING FROM HIGH TAXATION, THEY WANT A BREAK, THEY WANT SOME RELIEF.

AND I THOUGHT WE HAVE A SURPLUS THIS YEAR, WE MADE OUR OBLIGATION, WHY DON'T WE GIVE YOU BACK TO TAXPAYERS.

WHAT BETTER WAY TO PAY BACK TAXPAYERS TON GIVE THEM A TAX BREAK?

SO I THOUGHT IT WAS A BETTER OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE IT BACK TO THEM.

THEY DESERVE IT.

>> I WILL TELL YOU, PRIVATE BUSINESS, WE FULLY FUND OUR PENSION OBLIGATIONS, BECAUSE THAT IS -- YOUR PENSION OBLIGATION IS EXPOSED TO THE BRUTAL CHANGES IN THE STOCK MARKET.

SO I THINK IT'S VERY IRRESPONSILE NOT TO FUND THOSE PENSION OBLIGATIONS.

>> $3 BILLION, AND THAT JUST IS UNDERFUNDED.

THAN FUNDED LIABILITY RIGHT NOW.

THAT DOESN'T TAKE CARE OF THE ONGOING OBLIGATION EVERY YEAR.

WE HAVE TO FACE -- MOODY'S SAW THIS.

THEY SAW IT COMING BEFORE, THEY'VE BEEN WARNING US ABOUT OUR DEMOGRAPHICS AND UNFUNDED LIABILITIES, AND WE HAVEN'T TAKEN APPROPRIATE ACTION.

SO FAILED LEADERSHIP, IF IT WASN'T FAILED LEADERSHIP ON MY PART, IT WAS FAILED LEADERSHIP OVER THE LAST 15, 20 YEARS.

>> WHAT IS YOUR PLAN TO FIX IT?

>> WE'RE DOING IT.

I JUST SAID THAT.

WE'RE ON A MORTGAGE SCHEDULE, WE NEED TO FOCUS REGARDLESS OF PARTY AFFILIATION, REGARDLESS OF EVERY ELECTED OFFICIAL SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON DEMOGRAPHICS, BECAUSE THAT'S OUR BIGGEST CHALLENGE.

WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH IN THE WORK FORCE.

THAT'S OUR PROBLEM.

>> PHIL SCOTT, YOUR FIRST QUESTION FOR CHRISTINE HALLQUI HALLQUIST.

>> OVER THE LAST DEBATE I ACTUALLY -- WE HAD TO SAY SOMETHING NICE ABOUT EACH OTHER.

AND I ACTUALLY PRAISED CHRISTINE FOR HOLDING RATES AT THE CO-OP FOR FIVE OR SIX YEARS, I THOUGHT THAT WAS SOMETHING I COULD APPRECIATE.

I HELD TAXES LEVEL, SHE DID IT WITH RATES.

BUT SINCE THEN, I'VE LEARNED THAT IS NOT EXACTLY TRUE.

CAN YOU TELL US HOW MANY TIMES YOU ACTUALLY WENT TO THE PUBLIC SERVICE BOARD TO ASK FOR A RATE INCREASE?

BEN WALLACE YOU DIDN'T RECEIVE THEM, BUT IT WASN'T THAT YOU WEREN'T ASKING.

BECAUSE YOU ASKED FOR THEM A NUMBER OF TIMES.

HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU ASK FOR AN INCREASE?

>> WELL, I COULDN'T TELL YOU THE EXACT NUMBER, BUT WHAT I HAVE SAID, WHAT I HAVE SAID IS THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE A RATE INCREASE FOR FIVE YEARS, AND OUR AVERAGE INCREASE WAS 0.8% FOR 10 YEARS.

I'LL TELL YOU HOW WE GOT THERE.

WHEN I GOT TO THE CO-OP, WE BUILT A LONG-TERM PLAN AND A LONG-TERM VISION.

IN 2007, I WENT TO OUR MEMBERS, OUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS, AND I SAID, WE NEED A 7.25% INCREASE IN ORDER TO MAKE THE STRATEGIC INVESTMENTS TO MAKE THIS COMPANY OPERATE PROPERLY.

WE BUILT A 10-YEAR CAPITAL PLAN, SO WITH THAT INCREASE, I WENT TO ALL THE MEMBERS ON THE BOARD AND ARGUED WHY THIS IS IMPORTANT TO BUILD OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, AND THEY AGREED, WE GOT TO VOTE WHERE OUR MEMBERS DRY TO THAT RATE INCREASE BECAUSE WE MADE THOSE INVESTMENTS, WE DIDN'T HAVE A RATE INCREASE FOR THE PAST FIVE YEARS, AND IT AVERAGED 0.8% FOR 10 YEARS.

>> YOU DIDN'T ANSWER MY QUESTION.

YOU SAID YOU DIDN'T HAVE A RATE INCREASE FOR FIVE YEARS, WHICH IS PROBABLY TRUE.

BUT YOU ASKED FOR IT HOW MANY TIMES?

HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU ASK FOR A RATE INCREASE?

>> I HAVE NO IDEA.

>> BUT YOU ASK -- >> WE ASKED FOR A RATE INCREASE NOT DURING THOSE FIVE YEARS.

WE KEPT OUR RATES FLAT FOR FIVE YEARS AND OUR AVERAGE RATE -- >> YOU NEVER ASKED FOR A SINGLE INCREASE?

>> NOT FOR FIVE YEARS.

AND WE WERE 0.8% FOR A 10-YEAR PERIOD.

WELL BELOW THE RATE OF INFLATION.

THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU MAKE YOUR STRATEGIC INVESTMENTS.

THAT'S WHY I TALK ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF INVESTING IN INFRASTRUCTURE AND MAKING STRATEGIC INVESTMENTS, BECAUSE YOU GET THAT RETURN.

>> PHIL SCOTT, ANOTHER QUESTION FOR CHRISTINE HALLQUIST.

>> YOU'VE SAID YOU WANT TO EXPAND BROADBAND.

YOU THINK THAT'S THE ANSWER FOR THE STATE, AND I AGREE THAT IT'S PART OF OUR -- ANOTHER ECONOMIC TOOL IN THE TOOLBOX.

BUT YOU RAN THE CO-OP, YOU SAID% IT'S NOT GOING TO COST ANY MONEY, IT'S JUST GOING TO MAKE THE UTILITIES DO IT.

YOU RAN A UTILITY, WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST DO IT?

YOU TALK A LOT ABOUT HAVING BROADBAND THAT ISN'T UP TO STANDARDS IN YOUR OWN COMMUNITY.

WHY DIDN'T YOU DO IT WHILE YOU WERE RUNNING THE UTILITY?

>> ACTUALLY, I SPENT 10 YEARS ON THE TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE FOR THE NATIONAL RURAL ELECTRIC ASSOCIATION, WHICH OVERSEES ELECTRIC DELIVERY TO ALL OF AMERICA, RURAL AMERICA, WHICH IS 56% OF THE LAND MASS.

ALL COOPERATIVES.

WE WORK ORDER THIS PROBLEM FOR 10 YEARS, AND WE CAME UP WITH A SOLUTION THAT WE IMPLEMENTED IN OTHER STATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

AND I WAS DROOD INTRODUCING THAT TO OUR CO-OP BOARD OF DIRECTORS WHEN I LEFT.

SO WHEN I DECIDED TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR, I DECIDED, HEY, LET'S DO THIS FOR THE WHOLE STATE BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A GOOD IDEA.% SO WHEN YOU HAVE THE ELECTRIC UTILITY AND CERTAINLY ANYBODY CAN GOOGLE ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES AND FIBER AND YOU CAN SEE WHERE THIS IS BEING DONE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WHEN YOU HANG THE FIBER IN THE ELECTRIC SPACE USING THE UTILITY'S POLES AND EQUIPMENT YOU COST THE -- CUT THE COST BY MORE THAN ONE HALF AND ELECTRIC UTILITIES PAY BACK OVER A 30-YEAR PERIOD, SO YOU CUT THIS BY MORE THAN 75%.

THE ELECTRIC UTILITY WILL TAKE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE FIBER OF THE HOME, AND IT'S OPEN ACCESS FOR ALL PROVIDERS AT THAT POINT.

IT'S A VERY EFFECTIVE SYSTEM, AND I ENCOURAGE ANYBODY TO DIG INTO THIS AND I WILL TELL YOU JOHN CHAMBERS LEFT THE FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION AS THE HEAD OF THE COMMISSION IN ORDER TO CARRY THIS OUT.

>> WOULD YOU BE SURPRISED TO HEAR THAT ONE OF YOUR BOARD MEMBERS SAID YOU ABANDONED THE EFFORT BECAUSE IT WOULD COST TOO MUCH MONEY?

>> I WORK SURPRISED.

LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY -- I RAN A DEMOCRACY JUST LIKE YOU.

I HAD -- THE MAJORITY OF THE BOARD SUPPORT, BUT I DID HAVE SOME DETRACTORS ON THE BOARD.

>> CHRISTINE HALLQUIST, A QUESTION FOR PHIL SCOTT?

>> YES.

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY NATIONALLY HAS TRIED TO STRIP AWAY LGBT RIGHTS, AND HAS DENIED CLIMATE CHANGE.

HERE IN VERMONT, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS USING THIS SLOGAN -- MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

WE HAVE SEEN THE GOP PUMP MONEY FROM PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES, MONSANTO AND COKE MONEY INTO VERMONT.

WE SAW 17 REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVES REFUSE TO ANNOUNCE -- DENOUNCE FAMILY SEPARATION.

AS THE LEADER OF THE VERMONT REPUBLICAN PARTY, HOW DO YOU ADDRESS THESE ISSUES AND WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO CHANGE THAT?

>> I PUSHED BACK, I THINK IT'S WELL DOCUMENTED HOW MANY TIMES I'VE PUSHED BACK AGAINST THE WILL TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AS WELL AS THOSE IN CONGRESS ON MANY DIFFERENT ISSUES, WHETHER IT'S FAMILY ISSUES ON THE BORDER, OR LGBTQ, THE COMMUNITY, TRANSGENDER RIGHTS IN THE MILITARY, AND SO FORTH.

SO I THINK YOU LOOK BACK OVER MY LAST TWO YEARS, AND THROUGH MY DETRIMENT IN SOME RESPECTS, BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT DON'T AGREE WITH MY STANCE.

BUT I PUSHED BACK ON EVERY -- I CALLED THEM AS I SEE THEM.

I DO IT PUBLICLY.

>> TALK IS CHEAP.

I'M ASKING WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?

WHAT ACTION, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO AS A LEADER OF THIS STATE TO PROTECT US?

>> WE'VE DONE THAT.

WE CONTINUE TO DO THAT.

>> WHAT IS THE ACTION YOU'RE TAKING?

NOT THE WORDS YOU'RE SAYING, WHAT -- >> WORDS MATTER.

WORDS MEAN A GREAT DEAL.

WE'RE SEEING IT ON A NATIONAL LEVEL.

WORDS MEAN SOMETHING.

MY WORDS MEAN A LOT.

>> I DISAGREE.

ACTION IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN WORDS.

>> CHRISTINE HALLQUIST, A SECONR PHIL SCOTT?

>> SO MANY WILL LONG-TERM PEOPLE IN THE LEGISLATURE HAVE SAID THE LAST TWO YEARS HAVE BEEN THE MOST DISFUNGAL AND ACRIMONIOUS YEARS THEY'VE EVER SEEN.

YOUR OFFICE HAS BEEN DESCRIBED AS CHAOTIC WITH PEOPLE UNSURE WHO IS IN CHARGE.

WHAT ACTIONABLE STEPS ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE IN ORDER TO STOP THIS DYSFUNCTION?

>> I WOULD DISAGREE.

WE DID SEE SOME TENSION OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS, BUT THAT'S NATURAL.

THERE'S NATURAL TENSION BETWEEN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH AND THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH.

ALWAYS HAS BEEN, ALWAYS WILL BE.

MY FIRST YEAR, 18 YEARS AGO, HOWARD DEAN WAS GOVERNOR.

AND I REMEMBER HIM, BOB PROBABLY REMEMBERS WHEN HE CAME IN ON THE SENATE FLOOR DURING A RECESS, AND BERATED BILL DOYLE, RIGHT IN FRONT OF EVERYONE ELSE ABOUT INTHG HE WASN'T HAPPY WITH BILL DOYLE ABOUT.

THE DEAN OF THE SENATE IN FRONT OF EVERYONE.

NOW T. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DISAGREEMENTS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS OVER THOSE 18 YEARS.

I WOULD SAY IN THE SHUMLIN ADMINISTRATION, THEY HAD A SUPER MAJORITY.

THEY HAD CONTROL OF THE HOUSE, THE SENATE AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH.

THEY HAD THEIR BATTLES.

THEY WERE DONE BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, THOUGH.

BECAUSE THEY COULD.

AND WHEN THEY CAME BACK OUT, EVERYTHING WAS FINE BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL PART OF THE SAME FAMILY.

NOW, ME BEING A REPUBLICAN RUNNING EVERY TWO YEARS, AGAIN, THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME DISCOURSE, I THINK WE SAW IT AGAIN THIS WINTER WHEN THEY WERY SESSION IN THE BASEMENT, 133 ESTATE, WHERE THEY DETERMINED HOW MANY BILLS WE WERE GOING TO INTRODUCE AND THEY WANTED TO SEE HOW MANY I WOULD VETO, JUST TO MAKE ME LOOK BAD FOR THE NEXT ELECTION.

SO THIS IS POLITICS.

IT'S UNFORTUNATE, BUT IT'S POLITICS, BUT IN THE END, I THINK WE GOT A LOT OF GOOD THINGS DONE FOR VERMONTERS.

>> I SHOULD TELL YOU I DISAGREE.

I THINK YOU CAN BE MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE WITH COLLABORATIVE LEADERSHIP.

>> IF YOU ARE ALL ONE PARTY, I GUESS YOU CAN DO THAT.

BUT WHEN YOU HAVE UNBALANCED GOVERNMENT, WHEN YOU HAVE A LEGISLATIVE BRANCH THAT'S THE MAJORITY OF THE DIFFERENT PARTY, IT DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK OUT THAT WAY.

>> PHIL SCOTT, ANOTHER QUESTION FOR CHRISTINE HALLQUIST?

>> SO AS GOVERNOR, LET NECESSITY GO BACK.

-- LET ME GO BACK.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS RIGHT NOW, ABOUT YOU'VE SAID THAT A VETO IS A SIGN OF FAILED LEADERSHIP.

THAT YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET TOGETHER AND COLLABORATE AND SO FORTH.

AND YOU'VE BEEN CRITICIZING ME ON THAT INITIATIVE A GREAT DEAL.

NOW, I ADMITTEDLY HAD A NUMBER OF VETOES, 14, BUT WE DID TURN THOSE AROUND, ACTUALLY SOME OF THEM PASSED ABOUT NINE OF THEM PALED IN SOME CAPACITY WHETHER SCIEFT ORDER OR IN ANOTHER PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

BUT HOWARD DEAN HAD 14 AS WELL.

WOULD YOU DESCRIBE HIM AS A FAILED LEADER?

>> I -- YOU KNOW, HOWARD DEAN IS BEFORE MY TIME.

I CAN'T TALK ABOUT WHAT HE DID.

BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT I CONSIDER THE VETO A FAILED LEADERSHIP MODEL.

I THINK IN THE WAY -- WHAT I'M SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF HOW YOU HAVE OPERATED, IT'S BEEN A CASE WHERE IT'S THE LAST COUPLE WEEKS OF THE LEGISLATURE YOU COME WITH IDEAS THAT WERE NOT VETTED.

NOT EVEN -- YOU HAVEN'T EVEN TALKED TO THE LEGISLATURE ABOUT THEM.

I'LL TALK ABOUT THIS YEAR IN TERMS OF SCHOOL BUDGETS.

I'M THE TOWN MODERATOR IN HYDE PARK, I'M ON THE OTHER END OF THE SCHOOL BUDGET ISSUE ON THE TOWN LEVEL AND YOU SET A GOAL FOR THE TOWNS TO COME IN UNDER 2.5%.

THE TOWNS ALL CAME IN AT 1.5% -- >> THEY DID THEIR PART.

>> EXACTLY.

BUT THEN YOU CHANGED THE GOALPOST.

>> NO, DIDN'T.

>> YOU SAID THAT'S NOT ADEQUATE,.

>> THAT'S NOT TRUE.

>> I -- THAT'S WHAT I SEE.

>> THAT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE.

>> CHANGING THE GOALPOST IS THE WORST THING YOU CAN DO AS A LEADER.

I WOULD HAVE PRAISED THE FACT PEOPLE CAME IN AT 1.5%, AND TALK ABOUT, LET'S TOGETHER TALK -- >> I DID PRAISE THAT.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, I GAVE THEM A GREAT DEAL OF CREDIT.

AND TOLD THEM PUBLICLY THAT THEY HAD DONE A GREAT JOB AND SENT THEM LETTERS SAYING THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING UNDER THAT 2.5%, THEY CAME IN AT 1.5%.

BUT I ALSO SAID WE DIDN'T NEED TO RAISE TAXES AND FEES.

AND WE DIDN'T NEED TO.

WE HAD A SURPLUS AT THE END OF THE YEAR AND WE SAVED $71 MILLION WORTH OF PROPERTY TAX INCREASES OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS.

I WOULDN'T SAY THAT'S FAILED LEADERSHIP.

>> WELL, THAT CONCLUDES THE SECOND SEGMENT OF OUR PROGRAM.

WHEN WE COME BACK, THE CANDIDATES WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED IN ADVANCE BY VERMONTERS.

YOU'RE LISTENING AND WATCHING THE VERMONT GOVERNOR'S DEBATE LIVE ON VPR AND VERMONT PBS.

>> "VERMONT EDITION" IS BROUGHT TO YOU IN PART BY THE -- SUPPORTING CONSERVATION, EFFICIENCY AND THE CONTINUED GROWTH OF VERMONT'S RENEWABLE ENERGY ECONOMY.

INFORMATION AVAILABLE ONLINE.

VPR IS LISTENER FUNDED WITH FURTHER SUPPORT FROM THE VERMONT DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WITH RESOURCES TO SUPPORT SAFE NEEDLE DISPOSAL IN VERMONT COMMUNITIES.

>> THIS IS THE VPR VERMONT PBS GOVERNOR'S DEBATE ON "VERMONT EDITION."

WITH US TODAY ARE THE TWO MAJOR PARTY CANDIDATES FOR THE POSITION.

THE INCUMBENT, REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR PHIL SCOTT, AND DEMOCRATIC CHALLENGER CHRISTINE HALLQUIST.

NOW WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TIME FOR QUESTIONS FROM VERMONTERS.

I WANT TO THANK EVERYONE WHO SUBMITTED QUESTIONS IN ADVANCE OF THE DEBATE.

CANDIDATES, PLEASE LIMIT YOUR ANSWERS TO 60 SECONDS.

>> FIRST QUESTION COMES FROM ELLEN, WHO WROTE US, DESCRIBE HOW YOU WILL ADVANCE VERMONT'S ENERGY PLAN SO THE STATE WILL MEET ITS DEADLINE OF 90% RENEWABLE ENERGY BY 2032.

PHIL SCOTT?

>> WELL, AGAIN, IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT ELECTRICITY.

WHEN WE THINK ABOUT 90% RENEWABLE BY 2050, THAT WOULD BE FAIRLY EASY TO DO WITH ENERGY RICH CANADA IN TERMS OF JUST THE ELECTRICITY USAGE.

THE REAL CHALLENGE IS GOING TO BE IN TRANSPORTATION.

THAT'S 60% OF OUR CARBON EMISSIONS.

SO WE'VE MOVED FORWARD WITH THAT EFH, WE'VE USED SOME OF THE VW SETTLEMENT MONEY, WE'RE TRYING TO ESTABLISH AN INFRASTRUCTURE, A CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE ALONG 89 AND 91 CORRIDORS, WHICH I THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

PARTICULARLY AS WE MOVE FORWARD, IT'S ALL ABOUT TRANSPORTATION.

AND GOING TO EVs, AND WE'RE SEEING THAT AS WE SPEAK.

SO I'D SAY ELON MUSK FEELS THAT OVER THE NEXT 20 YEARS WE'RE GOING TO SEE 90 TO 95% OF THE VEHICLES MADE WILL BE ELECTRIC.

AND WE SAW THAT WITH HARLEY-DAVIDSON, AS A MATTER OF FACT, CAME OUT WITH A LINE OF ELECTRIC MOTORCYCLES THIS YEAR.

SO THAT IS A SIGN OF THINGS THAT ARE CHANGING IN THIS WORLD.

WE HAVE TO GET READY WITH THE INFRASTRUCTURE.

>> CHRISTINE HALLQUIST.

>> WELL, I'VE COMMITTED BASICALLY COMMITTED MY LIFE TO SOLVING CLIMATE CHANGE, AND I -- IN 2004 I WENT UP TO QUEBEC TO LISTEN TO THE FIRST INTERGOVERNMENTAL CLIMATE CHANGE REPORT ON WHAT CARBON WAS DOING TO THE PLANET, AND I KNEW THE ELECTRIC GRID WOULD BE KEY TO SOLVE THAT, BASICALLY YOU HAVE TO ELECTRIC IDENTIFY EVERYTHING, OTHERWISE YOU'RE USING FOSSIL FUEL.

AND OF COURSE THROUGH THINGS LIKE AIR SOURCE HEATING, WHICH IS 300% EFFICIENT, WE CAN TRANSFORM.

I ALSO SPENT TWO PLUS YEARS WORKING WITH THE VERMONT ENERGY INVESTMENT CORPORATION ON A GRANT FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY TO WRITE THE PLAN FOR ACTUALLY HOW TO GET TO THE DETAILED PLAN ON HOW TO GET TO 90% BY 2050.

WHICH INCLUDES LOOKING AT INTEGRATED TRANSPORTATION PLANS AS WELL.

IT'S NOT JUST GOING TO BE THE ELECTRIC VEHICLES, IT'S GOING TO BE THE INVESTMENTS IN MASS TRANSIT THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE TO GET US THERE.

SO I WOULD MAKE THAT PLAN THE COMPREHENSIVE ENERGY PLAN FOR THE STATE OF VERMONT.

AND I WOULD ASK THE LEGISLATURE TO CODIFY THIS IN LAW.

AND THAT INVOLVES WORKING -- I ALREADY MET WITH A CANADIAN DELEGATION BECAUSE THAT HYDROPOWER IS -- MASSACHUSETTS AND CONNECTICUT WANTS IT AS WELL.

SO WE HAVE TO WORK AS A NORTH AMERICAN SOLUTION, AND I WOULD LEAD THAT NORTH AMERICAN SOLUTION.

>> OUR SECOND QUESTION COMES FROM JOHN IN BENNINGTON WHO SAYS, HOW MAY PROPERTY AND SCHOOL TAXES BE REDUCED FOR VERMONT RESIDENTS?

HOW WILL YOU HELP?

CHRISTINE HALLQUIST?

>> WELL, I GOTTA TELL YOU, FIRST OF ALL, THIS IDEA THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE LESS AND LESS AND LESS STUDENTS IS -- I TOTALLY CHALLENGE THAT.

AGAIN, WHERE ARE WE CONNECTED FIBER EVERY HOME AND BUSINESS WITH FIBER, WE'VE CHANGED THAT.

ON NPR LAST WEEK YOU HEARD ABOUT A KENTUCKY COMMUNITY THAT WAS A COAL COMMUNITY THAT CONNECTED EVERY HOME AND BUSINESS WITH FIBER AND CHANGED THEIR DEMOGRAPHICS.

WE STUDIED THIS, WE LOOKED AT WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE 'THRIS, THE 1930s, WE SAW AGING DEMOGRAPHICS, FLIGHTS TO THE CITY, INCREASING RATES OF POVERTY.

WHEN THE CITIES HAD ELECTRICITY AND RURAL AMERICA DID NOT.

WE WILL CONNECT EVERY HOME AND BUSINESS WITH FIBER, REBUILD THOSE TOWNS, WE'LL GROW RURAL VERMONT, WE'RE GOING TO ADD SO THAT'S A KEY PART OF IT.

AND ALSO I WILL TELL YOU, WE NEED TO ALSO RESTRUCTURE THE WAY WE PAY.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE PROPERTY TAX SYSTEM ITSELF, IT'S A FLAWED MODEL.

AND MOVING TO A -- ONE OF THE THINGS THAT BREAKS MY HEART IS TO SEE ELDERLY PEOPLE THAT HAVE TO LEAVE THEIR HOME BECAUSE THEY'RE ON FIXED INCOMES.

SO WE'LL LOOK AT THAT MODEL AS WELL.

>> PHIL SCOTT?

>> YOU CAN REARRANGE THE DECK SHARES ON THE TITANIC, BUT THAT DOESN'T CHANGE THE OUTCOME.

SO YOU CAN GO TO AN INCOME TAX BASE MODEL, CHANGE THE FORMULA, BUT IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO ADDRESS THE SPENDING YOU'REúGOIT COMING OUT OF A DIFFERENT POCKET.

I FAIL TO SEE HOW THAT'S GOING TO WORK.

IN TERMS OF BROADBAND, GREAT IDEA, WE NEED TO DO THIS MORE IN THE STATE.

BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE SHOCKED TO LEARN THAT SOME OF THE TOP 13 COMMUNITIES THROUGHOUT VERMONT THAT HAVE THE HIGHEST CAPACITY BROADBAND FASTEST BROADBAND IN VERMONT RIGHT NOW ARE BURLINGTON IS ONE, NO SURPRISE, BUT BROA, BATTLEBORO, SPRINGFIELD, NEW PORT, BENNINGTON, NOT EXACTLY THRIVING ECONOMIC CENTERS RIGHT NOW.

SO THEY'RE WORKING ON THAT, THEY ALREADY HAD THAT.

BUT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT -- WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS.

WE HAVE 30,000 FEWER KIDS THAN WE DID 20 YEARS AGO.

WE'RE STILL LOSING KIDS EVERY SINGLE DAY ON AVERAGE ABOUT THREE.

SO DEMOGRAPHICS ARE KEY, WE HAVE TO ENCOURAGE MORE FAMILIES TO MOVE IN, IT HAS TO BE AFFORDABLE HERE.

WE HAVE JOBS AVAILABLE BUT WE NEED MORE PEOPLE.

>> WE GOT THIS EMAIL FROM GREG WHO IS AN INMATE IN A VERMONT PRI SOON.

HE SUBMITTED THIS QUESTION TO US THROUGH TOM DALTON, THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF VERMONTERS FOR CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM.

GREG WRITES "I AM CURRENTLY IN PRISON WHERE DRUGS ARE ALL AROUND.

I AM IN FULL-BLOWN ADDICTION USING OPIOIDS EVERY DAY IN HERE.

THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS JUST KEEPS PUNISHING ME WITHOUT GIVING ME THE HELP I NEED TO TURN MY LIFE AROUND FOR ME AND MY 7-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER.

COULD YOU THINK IT'S OKAY THAT DOC WON'T GIVE ME TREATMENT?

WHAT CAN YOU DO TO HELP ME AND WILL YOU?"

PHIL SCOTT?

>> WELL, AGAIN, YES, WE WILL.

WE HAVE LEGISLATION THAT CAME IN TO EFFECT IN JULY, WE'RE MOVING FORWARD WITH THAT.

WE HAVE TO REMEMBER, WE'RE ONE OF ONLY TWO STATES THAT HAVE MAT, MEDICALLY ASSISTED TREATMENT IN OUR CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES.

ONE OF ONLY TWO STATES.

SO WE'RE LEARNING AS WE GO.

AND AGAIN, WE HAVE TO RAMP THIS UP.

IT'S NOT ASEE I AS IT SEEMS -- IT'S NOT AS EASY AS IT SEEMS.

BY THE END OF THIS WEEK I'M TOLD WE'LL HAVE OVER 300 OFFENDERS WHO ARE SIGNED UP FOR TREATMENT.

SO WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS.

BUT AGAIN, IT'S MUCH MORE DIFFICULT THAN IT MIGHT APPEAR.

>> CHRISTINE HALLQUIST.

>> LET ME JUST TELL YOU THAT WHEN IT COMES TO SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER, THE WORST THING WE DOCK IS LOCK PEOPLE UP TO SOLVE THAT PROBLEM.

AND LET ME MAKE A POINT FROM -- LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT HASN'T WORKED IN TERMS OF SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND DISORDER.

WE'VE SPENT A TRILLION DOLLARS SINCE RICHARD NIXON DECLARED THE WAR ON DRUGS.

WE HAVEN'T CHANGED DRUG USE AT ALL, BUT WE'VE THROWN A LOT OF PEOPLE IN PRISON, $73,000 A YEAR TO INCARCERATE A MALE IN VERMONT.

AND WE'VE BROKEN UP FAMILIES AND TYPICALLY TARGETED BY THAT BY RACE.

BUT WE HAVE THINGS THAT ARE WORKING, AND I'LL CALL THE HOWARD SAFE RECOVERY CENTER AS SOMETHING THAT'S WORKING WELL TODAY.

IT'S A NEEDLE EXCHANGE.

10 YEARS AGO WE HAD A LOT OF NEEDLES ON THE STREETS IN BURLINGTON.

PEOPLE STRUGGLE WITH THE IDEA OF A NEEDLE EXCHANGE.

WE DID, AND I COMMEND THE PEOPLE IN BURLINGTON FOR DOING THAT.

LAST YEAR 300,000 NEEDLES EXCHANGED, VERY FEW FOUND ON THE STREETS, THE HOWARD FOLKS PICKED THEM ALL YET.

BETTER YET, CLEAN NEEDLES AVOID ABOUT $3.7 MILLION IN TERMS OF TRANSPLANT COSTS.

$420,000 BUDGET, WE CAN ADD A FULL-TIME NURSE TO THAT, AND SO PEOPLE CAN GET HELP RIGHT AWAY.

I WOULD RECREATE THAT MODEL THROUGHOUT THE STATE AND I WOULD LOOK AT HARM REDUCTION SITES AS WELL.

>> I'LL POINT OUT BEFORE MOVING ON THAT NEITHER OF YOU ANSWERED THE QUESTION SPECIFICALLY FROM GREG ABOUT WHAT YOU WOULD DO FOR HIM IN PRISON RIGHT NOW.

IN ADDICTION.

>> BITE END OF THE WEEK I SAID THAT.

I ANSWERED THE QUESTION.

BY THE END OF THE WEEK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE OVER 300 PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO BE PUT ON MEDICALLY ASSISTED TREATMENT.

SO HELP IS ON THE WAY.

>> CHRISTINA IN DERBY WROTE WITH HER FOURTH QUESTION, SHE SAYS, I'M EXTREMELY CONCERNED AND ALARMED THAT THE LANDFILL IN COVENTRY, VERMONT, WHICH IS LOCATED ADJACENT TO THE BLACK RIVER AND LAKE MEMPHREMAGOG IS THE ONLY WORKING LANDFILL IN VERMONT AND IS THREATENING OUR EXPRIERMT QUALITY OF LIFE WITH A MASSIVE EXPANSION.

ARE YOU WILLING TO STOP THE EXPANSION OF THE LANDFILL OR AT LEAST PLACE A MORATORIUM ON ITS EXPANSION UNTIL FURTHER STUDY INTO THE AIR AND WATER QUALITY OF THE AREA IS COME ?REET WHAT ARE YOUR PLANS FOR A LONG-TERM WASTE MANAGEMENT FLAN VERMONT?

CHRISTINE HALLQUIST?

>> I'M SO SAD AND ASHAISMED ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING UP THERE.

I WAS THERE THE OTHER DAY.

THIS IS CLASSIC OF WHAT HAPPENS WITH LACK OF LONG HIFERL TERM PLANNING.

WE'RE TAKING ALL OF OUR GARBAGE UP TO COVENTRY, AND THEY'RE BRINGING IN GARBAGE FROM OUT OF STATE.

AND WE NEED TO HAVE A LONG-TERM PLAN, AND LOOK AT THAT, LOOK AT FIRST HOW TO REDUCE WHAT'S GOING INTO LANDFILL, BUT WE'VE GOT TO FIND AN ALTERNATIVE LANDFILL.

THE PEOPLE IN COVENTRY IN THE NORTHEAST KINGDOM HAVE DONE THEIR DUTY.

IT'S TIME TO STOP THAT LANDFILL AND MOVE TO AN ALTERNATIVE.

BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS, AND THIS IS CLASSIC WITH ENERGY, AND IT'S CLASSIC WITH ALL THINGS, WE TAKE AREAS THAT ARE STRUGGLING ECONOMICALLY AND WE LOCATE THESE THERE.

AND THAT'S BEEN THE HISTORY OF ENERGY IN THIS COUNTRY, AND IT'S BEEN THE HISTORY OF WASTE IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND WE'VE DONE IT IN VERMONT AS WELL.

>> WE DO HAVE A LITTLE -- >> PHIL SCOTT, WAIT.

>> I'M SORRY.

>> I WOULD AGREE THAT IT IS UNFORTUNATE, IT'S UP IN THE NORTHEAST KINGDOM, WE DID IT WITH DESTROYING OUR RIDGE LINE WAS WIND TURBINES, WE'RE DOING IT WITH THE LANDFILL AS WELL.

BUT IT IS THE ONLY ONE THAT WE HAVE IN THE STATE.

WE'VE CLOSED ALL THE OTHER FACILITIES.

AND LOCATING LANDFILL IS MUCH LIKE LOCATING A CORRECTIONAL FACILITY IN SOMEONE'S COMMUNITY.

VERY DIFFICULT TO DO.

I'VE EXPERIENCED THAT OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS.

ALTERNATIVES ARE MORE RECYCLING, REDUCE THE REFUSE GOING INTO THOSE FACILITIES.

BUT AT THIS POINT IN TIME IT'S OUR ONLY OPTION.

>> OKAY.

BOB.

>> NOW WE HAVE TIME FOR A BRIEF LIGHTNING ROUND.

SEE IF YOU CAN GET YOUR ANSWERS DOWN TO 10 SECONDS OR LESS.

NOW THAT THE U.S.

SUPREME COURT HAS LEGALIZE THE SPORTS BETTING, SHOULD VERMONT CONSIDER USING IT AS A WAY TO RAISE NEW REVENUE?

STDZ CHRISTINE HALLQUIST.

>> NO, I DON'T THINK THAT'S SOMETHING I'M INTERESTED IN.

>> I THINK WE SHOULD EXPLORE IT.

IT'S ONLINE, IT'S LEGAL.

I THINK WE SHOULD FLOA EXPLORE .

WITH CONSTRAINTS ABOU WHAT YOU'E BETTING ON.

>> WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU TEXTED WHILE DRIVING?

PHIL SCOTT?

>> QUITE A WHILE.

I HAVEN'T DRIVEN MYSELF FOR QUITE SOME TIME EXCEPT ON THE RACETRACK.

AND I'M NOT TEXTING THERE.

SO IT'S BEEN QUITE A WHILE SINCE I'VE DONE THAT.

AND IT WAS YEARS BEFORE THAT.

>> CHRISTINE HALLQUIST?

>> I DON'T EVER RECALL TEXTING AND DRIVING.

THAT'S SOMETHING I WILL NOT DO.

AND IT WAS SOMETHING WE'VE REALLY ENFORCED HARD AT THE CO-OP TOO WITH OUR LINE WORKERS.

>> WHAT'S THE BIGGEST MISTAKE YOU'VE MADE IN YOUR ADULT LIFE AND WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM IT?

CHRISTINE HALLQUIST?

>> WHEN I WAS 30 YEARS OLD, I WAS LEADING THE POWER SYSTEM'S MANUFACTURING AREA OF DIGITAL, AND I -- THERE WAS A PUBLIC MEETING WITH A BUNCH OF ENGINEERS AND FOLKS, AND THERE WAS A FEMALE ENGINEER WHO I PUBLICLY CHASTISED.

AND THAT AFTERNOON THIS WOMAN, I'LL CALL OUT HER NAME, ELSA BURDEN PER CALLED ME INTO HER OFFICE AND TALKED ABOUT WHAT I HAD DONE.

AND THAT WAS -- PUBLIC CHASTISING SOMEBODY, AND THE FACT THAT SHE WAS A WOMAN, REALLY STUCK WITH MY MY WHOLE LIFE.

I -- THAT WAS A HARD LESSON TO LEARN.

I'M EMBARRASSED THAT I DID IT, AND I CERTAINLY REGRET DOING THAT.

>> PHIL SCOTT.

>> WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES EVERY SINGLE DAY, AND WE LEARN FROM THEM.

THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT PART.

IF I HAD TO PICK ONE, I WOULD HAVE TO SAY PROBABLY DOING SOMETHING FOOLISH, DRIVING IN MY YOUNGER YEAR, MAYBE DRIVING TOO FAST ON THE HIGHWAY AND SO FORTH.

YOU LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES.

>> TIME NOW FOR A CLOSING STATEMENT FROM EACH CANDIDATE.

WE'VE DETERMINED THE ORDER USING A COIN FLIP YESTERDAY, CHRISTINE HALLQUIST, START US OFF.

>> WELL, I BELIEVE THAT GOOD LEADER HAS A LONG-TERM VISION THAT OUTLASTS THEIR LEADERSHIP, COLLABORATES AND WORKS CLOSELY TO COREY THAT IT LONG-TERM VISION.

MY LONG-TERM VISION IS TO HAVE EVERY HOME AND BUSINESS CONNECTED WITH FIBER, A VIBRANT AND DIVERSE ECONOMY WHERE PEOPLE CAN WORK OUT OF THEIR HOMES.

WE REBUILD DOWNTOWNS USING THINGS LIKE TAX INCREMENT FINANCING BATTLE, AND I REALLY BULLISH ON VERMONT BECAUSE WE WILL GROW OUR RURAL ECONOMY DOING THAT.

I'M GOING TO CONTINUE TO MOVE US TOWARDS MEDICARE FOR ALL, I AM ALSO GOING TO ENSURE EVERY CHILD RECEIVES A QUALITY PUBLIC EDUCATION AND THAT WE SUPPORT THOSE RURAL SCHOOLS, BECAUSE IF WE CLOSE THEM IT NEGATIVELY IMPACTS OUR ECONOMY FURTHER.

BECAUSE PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO MOVE INTO THESE TOWNS THAT DON'T HAVE SCHOOLS.

FINALLY, WE'RE GOING TO SOLVE CLIMATE CHANGE BECAUSE WE CAN.

NOW, MY FATHER ALWAYS SAID CAN'T NEVER DID.

SO I'M A PERSON THAT BELIEVES WE CAN GET ANYTHING DONE.

AND I ALSO KNOW NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE WHEN YOU'RE ON THE SIDE OF JUSTICE, AND I MAKE ONE MORE PROMISE THAT I'VE MADE SINCE THE KAVANAUGH HEARINGS, I WILL GO OUT OF MY WAY TO MAKE DONALD TRUMP FEEL VERY UNCOME UNCOMFORTABLE.

>> WE HAVE A LOT OF CHALLENGES IN THE STATE, AND I'M UP TO THE TASK.

WE'VE ADDRESSED MANY OF THEM OVER THE LAST COUPLE YEARS, AND WE HAVE A LOT MORE WORK TO DO.

DEMOGRAPHICS ARE OUR BIGGEST CHALLENGE.

WE HAVE A POPULATION DECLINE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN DECADES.

WE HAVE MORE DEATHS THAN BIRTHS EVERY YEAR RIGHT NOW, AND WE HAVE 30,000 FEWER KIDS IN OUR SCHOOLS.

WE HAVE FEWER PEOPLE WORKING TODAY THAN IN 2009.

BUT AGAIN, WE CAN ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE ISSUES BY INCENTIVIZING, MAKING VERMONT MORE AFFORDABLE.

THOSE THREE GUIDE POSTS, GUIDELINES THAT I'VE -- THAT I COMMITTED TO WHEN I CAME INTO OFFICE.

GROWING THE ECONOMY, MAKING VERMONT MORE AFFORDABLE, PROTECTING THE MOST VULNERABLE, THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE NEED TO WORK ON.

THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE CONTINUE TO WORK ON.

AND I'M VERY BULLISH AS WELL, BECAUSE WE CAN ATTAIN THAT.

BUT WE'RE ALL GOING TO HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER AND PULL IN THE SAME DIRECTION AND ADDRESS THOSE CONCERNS THAT MOODY'S BROUGHT UP.

IT'S OUR DEMOGRAPHICS, IT'S OUR PENSION LIABILITIES, AND LIVING WITHIN OUR MEANS.

>> THAT CONCLUDES THE VPR-VERMONT PBS GOVERNOR'S DEBATE ON "VERMONT EDITION."

I WANT TO THANK VERY MUCH OUR PARTICIPATING CANDIDATES CHRISTINE HALLQUIST AND PHIL SCOTT.

YOU CAN FIND VPR'S CAMPAIGN COVERAGE, INCLUDING INTERVIEWS WITH ALL OF THE CANDIDATES ON THE BALLOT FOR STATEWIDE AND FEDERAL OFFICE AT OUR WEBSITE VPR.NET.

ON BEHALF OF BOB KINZEL, I'M JANE LINDHOLM, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR LISTENING.

AND GOOD NIGHT.

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