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♪ [Making It Grow opening music] ♪ Good evening and welcome to Making It Grow.

We're so glad that you can join us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty, a Clemson Horticulture agent, and our program is a collaborative venture between SCETV and Clemson University.

Tonight, we are very happy to have with us John Nelson retired recently as the curator of the A. C. Moore Herbarium at the University of South Carolina, but still an intrepid botanizer are always that they're looking for fun things to find, and also Adam Gore who amazingly can make turf grass fascinating.

Which is a remarkable skill in itself, at least to me.

So, I thank both of those fine people for helping us out tonight, and then Terasa Lott is with us.

Terasa, of course, is wonderful about putting pictures on Making It Grow's Facebook page, and answering questions and doing all kinds of good things for us, but she also is the coordinator for the Master Gardener program statewide.

She is a busy woman.

Fortunately, she has a wonderful husband who likes to, when she says I'm tired of all my turf grass, Adam don't listen, Eddie goes and puts in more native plants and pollinator plants for Terasa, So, Terasa, you usually have wonderful things that people submit of things that they would like to share about their yard and flowers.

Do we get that treat tonight?

>> We absolutely do.

It is time for what I like to call our Virtual Field Trip around the state, where we look at what you out there are doing in your yards, gardens and even with your indoor plants.

We're going to begin with an aloe in an outdoor container, and this was shared by a dear friend of Amanda, Brucie Harry at Dewees Island.

Evelyn Pappa sent us a photo of her stunning window orchid as she calls it.

Rosemary is the subject of Vera Tucker's picture seen here with it's tiny purplish flowers.

Kathy McNeil of Aiken submitted her philodendron for us to enjoy.

And we will end with something a little on the unusual side, although common in the landscape.

Allyson Hirsh submitted a photo of one of the stinkhorn fungi.

And we're all glad that there is no olfactory sense that can come through our television or other electronic device.

Thanks everyone for sharing your photos.

We encourage you to continue to submit them.

Remember you can include Wildlife as well, especially if you have birds that you're watching in your yard and garden and we will post all of them on the Making It Grow Facebook page.

>> Thank you Teresa.

Adam Gore is a turf grass specialist, and he is stationed in Abbeville County, and he is also working on his Ph.D. Adam, the little bit you've told me about your research is fascinating.

It has to do with something that is extraordinarily important in South Carolina since tourism is so big here, and that means golf courses.

Do give us a little overview of what your work is concerning.

<Adam Gore> Yes ma'am, well thank you Amanda.

So my research is investigating why some of our warm-season greens are thin when they come out of their winter dormancy.

We're seeing that some of these golf courses when the grass starts to green up there's a mixture of algae where the grass used to be, and my research is investigating whether it could be due to a heavy metal that's present in some of the pigments that we treat the greens with and stuff, over seeding, as well as when were treating for some fungi and as well as some of our water treatments, try to see if some of these heavy metals that are essential for the plants' normal functions but when they get to these higher concentrations they can become toxic.

>> Well, and as we said, the tourism, and particularly, people love to come down here and play golf is important.

Thanks for taking that on.

You're doing what Clemson does.

You're contributing to the economic health of our state.

We thank you for that, but also people just love their home turf grass.

[giggles] Terasa you are always scouring our pages and people have questions.

I think even from HGIC the number one question is always turf grass.

Has something come across that maybe we could get Adam to help our viewers with?

>> Why yes.

We had a viewer to write in saying I heard that scalping is a great way to give my turf grass a head start into the growing season.

Is that true?

>> Well, I have to admit that I would think that was just an awful thing to do, but Adam is the expert.

So, I'm going to head over and say Adam, what is the truth about scalping?

>> So the idea of scalping during a normal growing cycle is a horrendous idea and what's scalping is is when you're cutting off too much of the top portion of the grass blades, but for the spring cut, the first spring cut for the warm season grasses it's actually good to lower your deck in the process called scalping where what we're doing is removing a lot of that old tissue from the plant and it opens up the soil canopy.

Because what triggers these grasses to begin greening up is soil temperature.

So, if we open up the canopy we allow more solar radiation to hit the soil and it starts to heat it up because, just like where trees will put on new leaves their old leaves don't green back up.

Grasses are the exact same way.

Their leaves don't just green back up they're putting back out completely new leaves.

So, by removing this old tissue.

We encourage the plant to green up sooner because of soil temperature increase so we can get a head start on getting a more vigorously growing lawn.

>> If you're not interested in having it you know, greener 2 weeks sooner than later, Are there other benefits like thatch control?

>> Yes ma'am.

So thatch decomposition is encouraged by microbial activity.

So.

when we're heating up the soil, we're also increasing the temperature of the environment for these microbes.

So with more microbial activity our thatch, can be broken down in a quicker measure, an old practice that use to be done was burning our yards.

Most people don't burn their yards, one, because they live in area where burning is not allowed, or they may be doing it in a hazardous way.

So this scalping effect is kind of the safe replacement of burning, because again burning does the same thing.

It opens up canopy, and when you burn slowly into the wind you can actually burn off some of that thatch that's right below the canopy of the grass.

>> Adam I have two questions that this brings to mind for me.

Do you let the clippings fall back on the ground?

That seems kind of in this one instance maybe not what you'd want to do.

We usually encourage grass recycling and also what time of year do you do this?

I mean you wouldn't want to get your grass all revved up if it's going to have another freeze or anything would you?

>> No ma'am.

So, for the first question of collecting your clippings.

So, again the idea is we want open up that canopy so that sunlight can hit the soil.

If we leave those clippings on the ground, and again we're going to be taking off a large portion of it especially if we have Bermuda grass and zoysia grass.

If we leave those clippings laying on the ground.

We don't get the benefit of the sun reaching the soil.

We do need to remove those clippings.

You can still use those clippings in your compost in your bed because they're still nutrients and carbon in these clippings and towards your second question of, is there a time to do it?

The answer is yes.

You do it right before your grass is going to start taking off.

When you notice that maybe one portion of the yard starts to have a little bit of green to it.

That would be a good indicator to go ahead and scalp the entire thing.

>> Okay.

so that would probably be sometime in April for most of us, I'm going to venture, depending on where in the state you are and if you don't have a lawn mower catcher.

You said you could maybe just use a blower and do that, but we're not supposed to blow those things into the street, because then they go into the water supply.

So blow them to a part of the yard where they can be useful.

>> Yes ma'am.

Like I said, you can rake them up and put them in your flower beds, in your garden bed, because this tissue is not going to have any sort of propagation.

So you're not going to spread your grass that way into your flower beds, but you are correct that you want to put them in an area that can still be useful.

>> Well, I just want to tell you this was fascinating.

So a lot of things depend on timing.

So scalping when done appropriately, actually can improve the quality of your turf grass but again timing is critical.

It's not something to do in the middle of the Summer.

Thanks Adam.

That was just fascinating.

Terasa, again we know that turf grasses the number one thing that people at least like to ask questions about, sometimes I feel like they don't ask enough questions because we hear about people who do things wrong so often.

Is there something that maybe has popped up that Adam can help somebody avoid making a mistake with.

>> It's funny you were just talking about timing and that is very applicable to this question.

We have someone to write in and ask when is the proper time to apply fertilizer to my centipede lawn?

>> Okay.

Well... centipede is a warm season turf grass and mine doesn't look like much right now Adam, but I've been to the store recently and I saw bags of Weed and Feed out there, and I saw somebody standing in line and I just decided I wasn't going to get into an argument with them.

But what is the story about when do we properly fertilize our warm season grasses and why is a soil test particularly important, so that we don't just get a blend or a mix that was maybe meant for a northern grass, that's not going to have the right ratio of nutrients in it.

>> So, for warm season grasses, that's centipede grass, Bahia grass, Bermuda grass, zoysia grass and St Augustine, there is no reason to put out any type of fertilizer especially those containing nitrogen, until at least May when our grass is beginning to grow.

Particularly that nitrogen is what I look at.

Nitrogen again, I always call it the "Go Go Juice".

So if this plant is not actively growing that nitrogen is not providing any benefit to it.

So if it's a nitrate source, nitrogen source, we can actually see, leaching of it more quickly.

So you may just be throwing away that nitrogen all together.

Also when we have heavy nitrogen in the soil it encourages fungal growth.

So, if we're putting out nitrogen right now, you can actually see an increase of some diseases, such as brown patch in centipede and zoysia grass.

So it's better to just lay off of that fertilizer and that's what kind of drives me crazy sometimes about Weed and Feed, is that people see the weed part and they think, I've got these weeds I need to control.

They go and put it out but they're not paying attention to there's also a feed part.

So there's no sense in feeding a plant that's not eating.

Now, this is completely different if you have a cool season grass like fescue in some of our western portions.

Now is a great time to it to be fertilizing your fescue, but if you do not have a cool season grass, there is no reason to be putting out any sort of fertilizer.

>> Adam, the timing for pre-emergence is picky.

I mean, it needs to be done just right as you and I are talking now, it's kind of towards the end of March.

Have we kind of missed that window for most of the state?

Because, I'm thinking about the Forsythia that's bloomed and the redbuds.

When are you supposed to try to get that pre-emergent out?

>> So, with pre-emergents their idea is, the idea behind pre-emergent is that based a form a layer right at the top of your soil, and as a new seed begins to grow, it takes in some of that herbicide and it kills the new seedling.

So, a lot of our pre-emergents that we would put out, target weedy plants.

Particularly this time of year we're worried about crabgrass and the potential for goose grass.

Now, crabgrass germinates when your soil temperatures are at least 55 degrees for three days straight.

In the Eastern portions of the state, so if you can imagine a line going from Aiken pretty much almost to Charlotte.

That area is traditionally we want to have our pre-emergents out before March 1st.

<Amanda> Whoa!

>> And if you're above that line that date's March 15th, <Amanda> Okay.

>> What we're actually seeing the previous two years I was seeing crabgrass germinating in late February.

So we're actually seeing, because of our warmer winters, we want to put out pre-emergent out starting in February.

>> But again people they don't they need to actually make a calendar the year before and perhaps talk with a turf specialist that we have, and get those things done in the appropriate manner.

because you're just wasting money, and as you've explained us some of that DNA synthesis, some of those pre-emergents if you use them over and over and over can actually harm your grass over the long-term.

So don't be somebody who just says Oh, I want to do something and buy something because it's sitting on the shelf.

>> Yes ma'am, you definitely want to have a plan, and that includes your fertilization.

So if you do a soil test.

It'll give you a calendar or a recommendation on when to put out your fertilizer.

And again, as you said talk with someone at the Extension Office in your county, and they can give you recommendations on when and what to treat with.

>> Okay and again if you do a soil test.

They're kind of hard to understand sometimes.

Our wonderful fellow agents at HGIC do a tremendous job, helping people with that.

Don't hesitate to call them, wouldn't you agree?

>> Yes ma'am.

>> Okay, Adam that was just wonderful.

Thank you.

So, I'm not going to scalp my hair, even though I think some people in the fashion magazines do that but I may scalp my grass.

Thanks a lot.

Thank you.

Allison Jones with the South Carolina Botanical Garden has become a wonderful friend.

She has all sorts of talent.

She can do her own video and she finds ways to involve her two darling girls in things and last year she did a terrifically fun program on how you can have a lot of fun decorating Easter eggs.

Let's revisit that wonderful experience with Allison and her girls.

<Allison Jones> I wanted to share with your viewers how to make egg dye.

But not just any egg dye, making egg dye out of natural ingredients.

So, in particular, what I plan to show you all how to do is how to make it egg dye out of cabbage, purple cabbage and yellow onion skins.

There are other options out there but those ones I have done year after year.

And they always work well for us.

<Amanda> You don't just dye the egg though.

You have kind of bring in the botanical aspect I think in some ways and that really sounds fun.

Explain how you use things that you find in nature on the eggs.

<Allison> Absolutely yes so that's the other aspect of it, is not just decorating them with dye.

But applying essentially a botanical silhouettes to them, using things that you find outside so leaves or flowers.

And when you're looking for these materials you want small scale things.

So, really what works best usually are leaves or flowers of little common weeds that most people can find in their lawn.

I really like using clover leaves.

They make a nice clean silhouette on there.

You can use a little common violet.

Sometimes they will add another hue on top of our two, instead of a silhouette you might get a little bit of a blue color added to it.

Anything that you find you and you think has a pretty shape and would look nice on there, you can do that.

>> Well, it really sounds fun.

So tell us, you make, how you going to make the dyes?

Because I guess we need to do.

>> So the first step is making your dye bath.

Okay!

So you need a stainless steel pot you need it to be maybe two to three quarts in size so you'll have plenty of room to work in.

And you start by adding your dye agents.

If you're using the cabbage, you want to cut it up just chop it up.

It doesn't have to be finely chopped, just coarsely chopped.

You're going to put that or your onion skins down into your pot.

If you're using onion skins, you're going to need about ten onions worth if you're making a big batch, but just use what you have to get the batch you can get.

And then you're going to cover the dye stuffs, the dye agents with water and add two to three tablespoons of white vinegar.

And that's going to help break up the eggshell help it to absorb the dye.

<Amanda> And excuse me, if you don't have white vinegar and you just have cider vinegar I don't think that would ruin the process.

Would it?

<Allison> I don't think so either.

More than likely that acidity would still work the same way.

If it gives a little bit of a different of a color then, I think that's okay.

That's part of the fun.

It's an experiment to some degree, right?

[giggles] So, once you have those ingredients in there you'll bring that pot to a boil.

And then once it comes to a boil you'll turn it down and let it simmer about 30 minutes.

<Amanda> Okay!

<Allison> And once you're at that point, you can choose - There about three different methods that you can choose from to make your eggs.

Now, when you ask about decorating the eggs.

So, now that you have dye, it's being prepared right?

You focus on decorating your eggs.

So you going to gather those leaves that I mentioned earlier and you'll have your eggs.

You apply those leaves whether you're working with boiled eggs or with raw eggs.

We'll get into that in a minute.

You apply those leaves with a damp finger.

I like to have a little bowl of water nearby that I can put my finger tips in.

And then I rub the surface of the egg a bit.

And then I will apply the leaf face down.

And that water helps to kind of create a seal, stick on and then you can take what we do is take old.

Doesn't have to be old.

Old or new panty hose, and we cut them into strips.

So, about two inches wide works.

You'll cut back the leg into a strip.

Cut the end of it, so you get a nice open strip and then you can take that, you're going to hold your egg.

Sometimes you need a friend to help you that can hold the egg or have the child hold the egg while they tie that section of panty hose around the egg and secure the botanical on.

<Amanda> So you want to put the strip face down on top, first, like the middle of the strip would go right on top of maybe the little cloverleaf.

<Allison> That's right.

<Amanda> You would reach around the back and secure it, pull it tight.

Not too tight, you don't want to break the egg.

But tight enough to hold it.

Okay and then you're set to move to the next step.

<Allison> That's right.

That's right.

At that step, like I said, you have options.

Now, it's ready to go in the dye bath.

If you are using boiled eggs, you can put them in the dye bath and you can actually start it to heat it up again a little if you like.

Because heating it up is going to achieve the darkest colors.

So you also though can take a raw egg and put it in the dye bath and not just heat it up a little bit, but bring it back up to a boil and boil your eggs in the dye bath.

<Amanda> Wow!

<Allison> That gives you a dark rich color.

However if you want to have eggs that you can keep it indefinitely, you can keep this kind of a momento.

And you may only choose to do this with a few of them, but to do that you're going to use a raw egg.

So in that process of adding the leaves, you would have done it with a raw egg.

Then you will use cooled dye.

You will lower that egg into the dye bath submerge it completely and you're going to have to wait longer for those results.

But that's what allows you to blow it out later and keep it indefinitely.

So you can keep - Kids enjoy if you're doing that process with kids.

They like being able to lift it up every so often and see what color it is.

<Amanda> I always have trouble blowing eggs.

My eggs seem to, I just don't have any success with it.

But you said you figured out how to do it pretty good.

<Allison> Yes.

So, the traditional way of blowing an egg out is you need- What works best really is like a push pin, a straight pin <Amanda> Just like if you were hemming a skirt?

<Allison> Yeah!

Exactly you're pinning hem before you - So a straight pin and you can take that.

You have to practice.

So don't try it on a beautiful egg that you're so attached to.

(laughs) Use it.

Do it with a raw egg first.

Just see how it goes.

But you are going to create one hole on the bottom of the egg, the broader portion of the egg.

You'll start with that and you just slowly apply pressure until you get the needle to break through.

And then you kind of start to move it around.

You can feel - what you're doing is breaking up the yolk and the membrane in there.

You're going to just really a break that up, okay.

You also need to create a hole on the other end.

The hole that goes on what I consider the top end of the egg, the narrow portion of the egg, you're going to want to make that one a little bit smaller.

It's going to be the more visible but you want big enough that the egg can come through.

Like I said you want to practice that and see what's going to happen.

The main thing is break up all the insides.

Once you feel like you've done that with your straight pin or even a safety pin to use whatever you have that you can make use of.

You're going to stir it all up, kind of scramble it in there.

Then you could even shake it.

Now be warned, stuff will come out.

It's a little messy.

Okay!

But you can get it.

Now the trick like I said is to then use your mouth to blow the contents of the egg out.

So you'd kind of wipe off the surface and then create a seal with your mouth on the larger hole on the bottom of the egg.

Strike it.

Reverse it on the top of the egg, you would blow and then blow out of the larger hole on the bottom.

This can be hard to do without breaking an egg.

And it also can make you dizzy.

You know you're really having to work hard to control your breath.

So, the trick that I use is if you just happen to have or can get a hold of a baby aspirator, the little bulbs that we use on babies' noses and mouths, then you can use one of those.

You put it right over that top small hole and make a seal and then give it a push.

You just be careful not to - Then, you want to remove it when you let go because you don't want to suck egg into your aspirator.

Also obviously you're not going to use the aspirator again after you use it for eggs probably.

(laughs) <Amanda> You'll need two: one for the children and one- <Allison> That's right!

If you're like me you just have them laying around and you're like why am I still holding on to this?

I have now needed this for my child for a while.

Oh!

I have a good use for it.

<Amanda> A lot of us will find we've got things that we were holding on to that we might bring out and find a use for a (inaudible) machine or all kinds of things that had been gathering dust, other things besides baby nasal aspirators.

Isn't it nice to think that we can go out and make people look at some common weeds and find a different way to look at them instead of thinking, Oh I've got to use herbicide and get everything under control.

And maybe even a little.

I guess if you even have a little houseplant maybe that was a fern or something?

<Allison> Absolutely!

<Amanda> You could make a bit of those couldn't you?

<Allison> I think that's a great idea.

Really it kind of opens your eyes up to looking for these little diminutive pretty shapes and in just about any plant.

Right?

There's potential there.

So you're right.

That's a smart idea too.

Because some folks they may not have as many plants outside to choose from so looking inside is a good idea too.

>> Well, I am going to enjoy going outside and finding unusual things to decorate eggs with.

Thanks again Allison Jones for that wonderful idea of how to blend nature and chickens, for Easter.

Terasa, John knows so many fascinating things and besides just trying to identify plants is there something else we might want to pick his brain about.

Well, I enjoy being out in nature and have visited a lot of places within the state, but thought maybe Dr. John could recommend some places that would have either interesting or unusual plant life for me and my husband to observe.

>> Well, I am so thrilled today to be with my friend, former Professor, well he was my former professor, and he is a former professor.

Because he's retired as the curator of the A.C. Moore Herbarium at the University of South Carolina.

I'm talking about Dr. John, the mystery plant man Dr. John Nelson.

John, thanks for being with us.

Today I thought we'd talked about South Carolina's, particularly one of South Carolina's Heritage preserves, and how do they differ from like a state park?

>> Well, the viewers might be interested in knowing that I used to work for the South Carolina Wildlife Department, while the Heritage program was a part of it.

Of course, it's all evolved into the Department of Natural Resources.

But, there's still a very active Heritage program and one of their charges is to protect, and manage special parts of the state.

which might feature say an endangered plant and or animals, or perhaps archaeological findings.

So, it's quite an extraordinary amount of work they do all across the state and I would encourage anybody that wants to know more about the heritage program to go to their website DNR.

<Amanda> And most of them are open during daylight hours and the one that I visited was the Congaree Bluffs Heritage preserve.

Which is the Congaree river is kind of a fascinating river, in that it has a high-side and low-side and there are several rivers that make the Congaree I believe, and then the Congaree goes on to make another river.

Is that right John?

<John> That's pretty much it Amanda.

The Congaree has had a long human history easily predating the American Revolution and of course if anybody knows much about the Midlands, especially Lexington and Richland County.

You'll know that the Saluda and Broad Rivers come together.

Just Northwest of downtown Columbia, and that's where the Congaree starts.

So, if you ever drive into Columbia across the Gervais Street Bridge you're going over the Congaree, it's the Congaree at that point.

It flows 50 river miles basically Southeast, all the way past the national park in Congaree National Park, and Highway 601 and shortly down stream from that.

It joins up with the Wateree River which is the one that flows by Camden.

So, the Congaree and the Wateree come together, and they form the mighty Santee River, much of the beginning of that is devoted shall we say, to Sparkleberry swamp that a lot of people have heard of So, it's extraordinary that we have all these beautiful rivers flowing around middle of the state coming together and making bigger rivers.

Providing a marvelous ecological path and footprint John Sealy calls the Cowasee Basin, the green heart of South Carolina.

But I did want to talk about the Congaree Bluffs Heritage preserve, because it was just - Oh gosh, John it's fascinating.

There's just such a wild diversity of little Eco-climates there I guess.

Because the land goes from right down to the river and then up this really treacherous slope and then it gets to the top and it's super sandy and then goes behind that some really kind of nice land with some wild flowers.

So I guess, should we start at the top where we end up if you drive in there.

<John> Let me first say before we start our little tour, of the heritage preserve that way back in the 70s there was a considerable amount of interest, in the high ground on the south side of the Congaree River.

And when you think about it, this business of having a big river, here in the Southeast, and by the way most of the rivers in the South East at least the Carolinas and Georgia flow from Northwest to Southeast, more or less.

On some of the bigger rivers, there is typically a series of high ground bluffs on the Southside, the Southwest side of the river.

With an extensive flood, flood plain system, on the other side.

That's exactly what we see with the Congaree National Park and then the resulting high ground on the opposite side.

But you are right that the heritage preserve known as the Congaree Bluff Heritage preserve, is the result of work from the Heritage program like I said way back in the 70s.

This project was further spearheaded I guess by early research especially from Dr. Batson and two of his students back in 1975 Jim Fitzpatrick and John Clontz.

They did a study of a couple of different high ground bluffs.

What they were interested in was trying to gauge the sort of personality of the woods, the forest from the top down to the bottom, and it's really kind of wonderful that they came up with this work in 1975 and it has been beating at it since then.

And yes the striking part of it is that The high ground is totally unlike a low ground.

<Amanda> A huh.

Well I drove, we drove, past the first parking lot to the second there was no one there so a perfect thing to do during these days when you want to stay apart and also just to have a very quiet and lovely experience.

And boy was it sandy and I just saw vaccinium, vaccinium, vaccinium Sparkleberry and then some White Oaks right there at the top you look out and looking out - Oh my God, the view is just spectacular.

You just look for a hundred miles practically.

It's the most beautiful view.

<John> That's one of the most impressive views of South Carolina.

But you are right about the ecology up there that we have dry sand hill basically, pretty extensive Sandhill which used to be dominated by longleaf pine.

And they have planted a lot of long leaf very close to the heritage reserve and their managing that to make an intact long leaf forest There are the dry land things as you said, lots of Sparkleberry in those woods You can see plenty of Yucca.

You can see persimmon, a good bit of persimmon and these not only long leaf but naturally occurring loblolly pine and short needle so you said, I think you said white oak she's also present and that's also kind of any kind of an example of a tree that likes these upper slopes of these kinds of bluffs.

Lots of hickory trees are various kinds of things that you find on high and dry ground.

Remember that overlook that you were mentioning which is a nice place for a picnic Look over that overlook, especially in the Summertime, you'll be amazed at these big giant trees that are coming up from halfway down the slope.

You're looking directly at the top pf the canopies.

It's just a wild experience.

It's wonderful.

Of course, we were there the beech trees which hold onto their leaves throughout the winter and are such a gorgeous color.

And so we were looking into the tops of those beech trees because that's a, I would say a precipitous slope >> Yeah.

I know beech trees are probably going to be considered part of the mid slope forest, a little bit wetter.

and that's one of the stories of the studies that have been going on.

It's that once you move from the top of the bluff downhill towards the river, things change very rapidly.

One of the things is that the soil's a little bit different It's not quite as sandy and it holds more water and it's more advantageous for other kinds of trees including beech.

and other than beech, I bet you saw a lot of horse sugar.

You remember what horse sugar is, I think.

I do but that's one, I've never learned to recognize very easily [John laughs] <John> We'll have another field trip to look at that sometime.

<Amanda> And I think that one is very much horse sweet too.

The leaves are sweet I think.

Aren't they?

And cattle - <John> a little like a green apple but also with these beech trees you might find one of the most interesting plants in the Southeast and it's called May White Azalea and I think you've gotten pretty excited about the presence of that at this heritage preserve.

It's a really beautiful Azalea, blooms in the late spring it's really a pretty plant I'd say that other plants that might be there would be some well different kind of ferns, including lots of Christmas fern, which is a pretty common one.

It likes these kind of slopey places and then there's - One of the things that I've always thought as a terrific place to go look at large grapevines, especially down towards the lower slopes is huge, different kinds of grape species.

>> Yes.

It was and I want to tell people if they go - I couldn't at first find the path down and I kept thinking we're just going to sit on our bottom and try to slide down this slope and I realized we would break our neck.

Because it's not continuous.

There are big drops it wouldn't have been safe but if you as you come in at that second parking lot and park, if you immediately go to your right, you will come to a little gate chain and a little asphalt roadway and that is a part of the preserve and that is the walk that takes you down to the river with relative safety.

You still I think need a walking stick because it at one time it had been asphalted and now it's all eroded, so it's you need to pay attention but that will take you down and you do not want to go there and miss the walk exactly - I mean the water is just right there, John.

<John> That walk is I always thought it was a bit strenuous and I'm not sure about the plans to improve that walkway but as you say it is was in part paved and it actually leads down to an old boat landing.

<Amanda> Yes.

<John> And that boat landing is still in use by certain people on the river.

It might be if you're not inclined to walk down the steep path, you might want to stay up top.

Now, I'm sure that the heritage program has more information within their office and their website and they probably have an easily available map.

<Amanda> Well, let's talk about some of the plants that are found there.

The native Azalea that's found there is not very, does not have a very large distribution, I don't believe.

<John> It is an endemic species and it's always been known, been recognized as a discrete species since it must have been the early, I'll get this wrong, but the early 80s.

I think and it was actually two authors who were describing this plant.

One of them was our Mike Kreel who used to work with me when I was at the wildlife department.

And it is a plant, generally where it occurs it's though to be calcareous and there are portions of the soil outlay that have a lot of calcareous aspects to it.

As I said it seems to be endemic they're not found elsewhere.

There are several populations though that I think it's not common anywhere.

but my May white is as far as I'm sure it's also in Clarendon County and probably also well into Orangeburg, Eastern Orangeburg County and I can give a shout out to my botany buddy Charles Horn at Newberry College who was probably about the world's expert, definitely May white azalea, but many other rhododendrons as well.

Charlie Horn.

<Amanda> And Mike Kreel at his home has one of the most extensive collections of native azaleas.

We went and did a show with him, had such a wonderful visit with him and he's developed that property in such a marvelous way, but I went back again when I was taking the master naturalist program and we found Indian pink was in bloom.

And that's a beautiful flower John.

Where is it generally found.

<John> In my experience not in many places in the state, although it's not considered much really rare species, but it likes really rich soils and it seems to be able to handle a good bit of shade.

It really is pretty.

Their corolla is tubular and red and then on the inside it's bright yellow.

<Amanda> Beautiful and easily available to one's home garden and things that can take a little shadier but still are showier.

Such a treat, I think as far as to include.

<John> Of course nothing can be taken from the heritage preserve.

<Amanda> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I meant' there are legitimate outlets that - <John> are available commercially - <Amanda> in sustainable ways.

Yes.

Yes.

And then what are some of the other surprising things that we might see there?

What are some other wildflowers for us to look for while we're there?

Are there other plants?

Woody plants?

You mentioned earlier, you said this word, I think you said it, microhabitats.

<Amanda> Yes.

<John> I'm not really sure what that means, but in my book a microhabitat would be something that's unusual and in a sort of a mosaic way on a broader landscape and one of the things you could find at Congaree Bluffs or places on the slope which are almost like caves or a little indentations, which are just cool as can be and we have to remember that this Bluff complex for the most part is facing north east or even North and that kind of a habitat in the coastal plain tends to be unusual.

And one of the other reasons is that it's a little bit cooler than the surrounding areas.

And I've always been struck by the presence of maidenhair fern at Congaree Bluffs, which is a beautiful little plant.

It's also available for gardens from commercial dealers.

<Amanda> John, did they have.

Excuse me just a minute.

Is one there the Horseshoe maidenhair fern?

Is that?

<John> Right.

Adiantum Pedatum would be the name of it.

There's another one the one called capillus-veneris, which is farther up in the mountains.

<Amanda> Okay, and again just a fascinating plant to have in your own landscape.

Again, always purchase from sustainably, propagating, good suppliers.

I want to say, if somebody's interested in a shade garden that fern and also Christmas fern are excellent additions.

<Amanda> I wanted to talk also about the beautiful styrax, that's there, which I think would just be a marvelous plant for people to include.

Talk a little bit about that.

<John> Right, a styrax, some people call it storax is a beautiful shrub and it is native.

It's got beautiful white flowers that bloom in the early summer, brilliant bright green leaves.

Just can't get over it, but styrax is a real pretty one too.

I know what you're going to mention earlier I think.

You're going to talk about some of the plants that are on the floodplain itself.

One of them and we already talked about grapevines, which are common and well distributed there.

But there's another vine I know you like it.

It's called.

What is it called, Amanda?

[giggles] <Amanda> I think it's - Is it supplejack?

<John> Supplejack.

<Amanda> Yeah.

<John> Sometimes it's called rattan vine.

It is just an extraordinary vine.

It's also native, woody vine, a very stout vine A lot of times when you go to these flood plains such as the national park you'll see it wrapped around a little tree, a sort of a corkscrew very tightly wrapped around it.

And that's one of these supplejack vines.

And I hope you've seen this.

Every now and then you'll find somebody who has made a walking stick out of one of these vines with the inner, whatever little tree it was growing up is dead and has died and rotted out, and you still got this perfectly good corkscrew.

[both laugh] that you can use as a walking stick.

>> Unfortunately it doesn't open the bottle of wine for your picnic.

You have to take a real cork screw for that.

<John> That's pretty easy too.

<Amanda> John when you get to the bottom we were there in the winter and the fungal growth was just in itself, one of the most magnificent things I've ever seen.

I mean, you just don't - the rotting trees and the rotten trunks and to see the way the birds had used those.

I mean you realize that some people say Oh a half dead tree or tree that rotting but it's incredibly important for nature to have these snags these rotting structures.

So many things, insects, birds all sorts of parts of our wildlife ecology those are intrinsically required for their lives and to go down there and see the growth of this and just see that this is a place where life and death is all occurring intertwined together and just the most important way because as those things decay, they're returning resources to the ground so they can use be used by other things.

I just found out - I know it'll be glorious in the summer when the pawpaw's, there were massive tracks of pawpaw's down there but I think we've often forget about walking to a place that is in a great state of decay and life and seeing that and reminding ourselves of how much it is just a constant recycling of nutrients and I hope one day to be recycled myself.

I don't want to be cremated.

I want to be just buried without having all those poisons put in me.

<John> Just wrapped up in a sheet, maybe.

<Amanda> That's it.

I've got a lot of old sheets they could just get one of those.

<John> Sometimes naturalists like to talk about those tree snags as biological skyscrapers because there's just so much stuff in them and there's a ton of biological study that can be applied to the animals and plants that occupy rotting trees.

And I'll take this one step further.

Logs, dead logs on the ground <Amanda> Yes.

Basically, the same purpose but in a horizontal or a leaning - <Amanda> Mmmm hmm.

And - There's a awful lot of biological dynamics going on with dead trees.

I'm not sure that it would be such a great idea to have a dead tree in your front yard if you live in the city because if they fall on somebody's car, that's no good.

But in their natural setting they're just spectacular examples of increased microhabitats again for different species.

<Amanda> Well, I would encourage people to pack a picnic and find a nearby heritage site and if they're anywhere in the Columbia area to come into Calhoun County because of the tremendous diversity on this wonderful heritage preserve that we have there And do remember that walk on all the top part.

Walk back down.

There's a wildflower trail where the ground, goes into better soils and a little more shade and different plants there.

and then do take a walking stick if you are able.

And make the trip down to the side of the Congaree River.

We were there.

It was a very cold day, John.

But of course the water has a tremendous effect of warming the area nearby and right by the river, John, I saw in bloom some tiny little fall aster with blue flowers on the top.

that was - you just I don't have- I'm not a good bird sighter, but I'm real good at looking at the ground and so I'm a good person for that.

>> Me too.

<Amanda> Yeah.

John, let's do it again.

I'll bring the lunch and you'll bring your expertise and we'll have an extraordinary day together, botanizing.

>> I hope so, Amanda and wear your sturdy shoes.

>> I will certainly do that.

Thanks again, John.

>> Bye Bye.

<Amanda> Bye Bye.

My cousin, Edward Jackson has this wonderful kumquat tree So, I made a hat out of kumquats.

I hope that you have a lots of kumquat adventures ahead of you in life Until next time, we'll see you.

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