- This week, just in case you didn't notice them, we're going to remind you about the state elections currently in progress.

We'll talk with two reporters and a professor about the issues, non-issues, negatives and positives of it all.

- And this week, a lot of people who use and enjoy the Elizabeth got together in Norfolk to talk about their competing demands on this badly polluted river.

They say they want to work better together to make it healthier, and then it is.

We'll talk to two of them on Hampton Road's week.

- As it stands now, and to the surprise of many, the race for the next governor of Virginia is a toss up.

And we can't absolutely be sure about the identities of the next lieutenant governor and attorney general.

And some people are saying that the Democratic majority in the House of Delegates could be severely damaged after the election November 2nd.

Three of them are paying close attention to the campaigns are David Lerman, who is political reporter for the Daily Press.

Dale Carlson is Professor of Political Science at Virginia Wesleyan College.

And Alex Marshall is public affairs reporter for the Virginian Pilot, Ledger Star.

You know, I've had the chance in the last few weeks to talk with all seven statewide candidates and about 40 of the House candidates, and I'm getting the impression, like it or not, that the main issue in the campaign really is the conflict between the left and the right, or the religious right.

David, am I seeing that right or do you think I'm being snowed by the TV commercials?

- Well, I, I think, Chris, that's certainly what the Democrats want the election to be about and what the Republicans do not want it to be about.

You know, after weeks in the governor's race of Mary Sue Terry going around and really saying very little other than a waiting period for handguns, it's almost as though she discovered religion and found herself lagging in the polls.

And in the past week or so, you really found her going on the attack in a, in a real tough way on television with this blitz of ads that are clearly designed to tie George Allen, the Republican, to what she calls the radical right, by which she means essentially Pat Robertson and, and Jerry Falwell.

- But is it, my question is, is that as an issue more apparent than it is real?

Is it really an issue or does it just appear to be the issue?

- To me, I think it's more of a, of a non-issue.

I think it's, I think it's only an issue with the voters when it, when it begins to connect with what they really care about.

I, I don't think most voters really care about whether a candidate is of the religious right or not.

They only start to care when, when they feel maybe that will affect how he operates, he or she operates on the issues they do care about, which is education, crime, you know, they're, they're scared in their home.

They care about their schools.

So if they think someone who's connected some way with the religious right is going to maybe affect their public schools or maybe will, will kill gun control because maybe they're more, then I think they start to care, but I don't think, I don't think it connects all the time with the voters as much as the politicians would like.

- And that's why what Terry is trying to do now is make it connect to policy.

And the one substantive issue she keeps tying it to is education and stressing how Alan would be willing to let localities have vouchers to send kids to private schools.

- And I think - That's a real issue.

And if that sells - Then, you know, that, that is something that, that the, Allen and a lot of the Republicans back, particularly those who do have ties with the religious right, and that's a real issue.

Some, they make the argument that that could really help reform public schools and improve it, and others say that would just kill the public school.

So.

- You have to remember the general context of American politics is almost always a struggle for the center.

And that means to portray your opponent as out of the mainstream or, or an extremist or a closet extremist.

And that's a pattern I think that's really asserting itself here.

And so it may not matter a lot to individual voters who's extremist or whatever, but it does matter to the candidates.

As they move to the center and try to capture the center politically, they, they've got to try to portray the other side as being out of the mainstream.

Is, - Is this the old problem in, in which the candidates in political races in recent years go for the jugular kinds of things and the voters sit out there and say, "I don't care about this jugular stuff.

I want to know about the issues thing."

But then the kicker to that is that the voters seem to respond to the jugular stuff.

Is that what's going on here?

- I think so.

I mean, for a long time, people were not paying attention to this governor's race.

And even today, I'm not sure how many people really care about it for whatever reason.

And I think going for the jugular was the one way they could kind of wake people up and, and use it to their advantage to gain, to shift in the polls.

I think, I think they almost had to do it because people were pretty much tuning out.

Back to your question on religion, we can argue the perceptions in the governor's race, but I think where it's clear that religion is playing a role is the lieutenant governor's race.

I don't think there's any way to get around the fact that, that Michael Ferris as the Republican candidate, former field director for the moral majority, and Jerry Falwell, has certainly taken center stage and, and just almost by his very presence and background has made that the issue.

Now, Don Byer likes to harp on that.

Ferris does not and resents it.

But I think we're past the point of debating whether that's the issue.

I think clearly in the lieutenant governor's race, that will be the question.

Do people see Ferris, even if they like George Allen, do people see his running mate, Michael Ferris, as simply too extreme for Virginia?

And they've been able to play that to some effect.

And there's almost even an embarrassment, even today, I think, on, on Alan's side about his ticket.

I mean, he, when he's with Ferris, he's very cordial, he's supportive.

And yet almost every time I've seen him that he's been alone campaigning, he will not even mention his running mates.

And that's, that's somewhat unusual.

I was with him even today as we tape at a, at a lunch in Newport News.

And he went out, Alan went out of his way to acknowledge the Republican local delegates running for the House.

And there wasn't a peep about his own running mates on the statewide ticket.

So I think there's still this embarrassment about him whether, whether Allen personally likes him or not.

He seems to be afraid to make his running mates center stage an issue in the campaign.

We - Haven't yet mentioned the race for the Attorney General and this issue seems even to be creeping into into that race, or at least the way I'm seeing.

- Well, it seems to be an issue in all the races in some sense because it is the only issue.

I, I think what Dell said, you know, all the candidates are aiming for the middle, which is a natural reaction.

But in, in that very action, I think sometimes makes it difficult for, for voters to perceive the real differences between the candidates.

I think they, the different candidates for governors, attorney general and, and lieutenant governor would have different policies on things like education, crime environment.

But because they're both aiming so strongly for the middle, I think it's difficult for voters to perceive those differences.

And I think that's tough.

And the - Temptation is to use the, the jugular negative campaigning to differentiate themselves from the other side.

And so you, you really have a, a sort of paradox there that they, they want to heighten the importance of, of turning out and voting for, for them by characterizing the evils that would occur by having the other side elected.

And the net effect over time, I think, is to create kind of cynicism and apathy and lack of involvement on the part of a lot of people following races.

- Right.

Let's talk about the, the House races.

David, you and Alex have been covering the North Side and South Side House of Delegate races.

And as I said, I've talked to a lot of the candidates.

And, and I got the impression that although not all of them are focusing on this religious conflict, the issues that they're focusing on are incidental to this religious kind of like, how do you feel about school choice?

How do you feel about abortion?

How do you feel about this or that?

What are you seeing in these very grassroots kinds of races?

- I think the real issue politically in those races is whether the Republicans can hold onto their gain that they made two years ago.

They won two years ago.

The religious right took a lot of credit for it.

Some people, a lot of people say they took too much credit.

But you had a lot of young new Republicans win, both in Virginia Beach, in Chesapeake Suffolk.

And, and, and now, now the Democrats are seeing whether they can, they can take back those seats or whether the Republicans will hold onto them.

And if the Republicans hold onto them, you're, you're starting to see the case of just, of Norfolk being the, the solid core city that's Democratic, Norfolk and Portsmouth, and all the other suburban cities being Republican.

And and if, I think it'll be very difficult for the, the Democrats to win.

And if they don't those new delegates will become much more entrenched.

- Yeah.

I'm less clear that religion really plays a direct role in these House races.

These House races, you know, the districts are so small.

They tend to be far more personality based, reputation-based, who do you know type of thing.

I'm not sure the issues even crystallize in the House races.

They, the Republican candidates play to it a little bit with the school choice issue, but I'm not sure it's really as great a - Well, - As you've been watching the, the House candidates run their races, have you seen number one that there is a lot of interest in these races when they go to citizens groups and - City forums?

I think they're always very difficult to connect with voters on, and it's kind of sad because they're very important.

You know, who your delegate is, it's, it's extremely important, but it's, it's very difficult for voters to focus on, and it's very difficult in a, in a, in a gubernatorial election.

It's, it's even more difficult because that's where the, the main press coverage is.

So it's hard to discern, you know, who you're voting for, what their position's on.

You know, I think gun control is a very interesting issue.

You know, traditionally, the liberals have been for gun control and the conservatives have been for stronger, stronger prison sentences.

But what you're seeing now is that there's kind of a, a merging of those issues.

People are really scared of crime, so they're saying, "Why do I have to choose one or the other?

You know, I want both harsher prison sentences, less parole, and I want to get the guns off the street."

So, you know, that's an interesting - Issue.

It's not - So is, is crime now the, the, the most important issue?

Forget about the religious stuff for a while.

Is the number one issue crime or is it - No, - I think it's, it's concern about the economy and jobs in the long-term futures, particularly in this region with the peace dividend and the layoffs of military personnel and so on.

I think that that really is, is number one.

- And are the candidates stepping up to that concern?

- I would disagree a little bit.

I think, I think the economy is people's number one concern, but in these races, I think it does come down to crime because whenever you talk about the economy, there just isn't much the candidates can say.

Everybody says they'll create jobs.

Everybody says they'll do a master plan for economic development.

They're - Very similar.

- It's very hard to make, to make the economy a wedge issue, and I'm not sure anyone's really succeeded at that.

So in terms of where you can pinpoint candidates on and where they can really gain support or lose support is on the crime issue right now, because that is, I think, next to the economy, the number one.

- Well, - It's always the top three issues, schools, jobs, and crime.

And, and, you know, they kind of jockey, which, which takes central, center stage in, in the voter's mind.

- A couple minutes left.

The, the polls tell us right now this is a very fluid race and we don't really know what's going to happen.

There have been a lot of surprises and expectations have been destroyed.

So anybody care to venture an observation about who might be representing us in Richmond two weeks from today?

- Well, that's dangerous to do.

Oh, go ahead.

Our latest polls had had Terry about seven points behind Alan.

I think that just makes it too close to call.

It really could go either way.

I do think there's some evidence to suggest that the more energized voters this year seem to be Republican.

They just seem more enthusiastic about their candidate.

That's been measured in some polls and just anecdotal evidence to suggest that.

That could play a role in voter turnout.

But it's, it's, it's so close right now that I, you know, it's, it's too tough.

- As we - I - Think turnout is everything.

And, and the problem with a lot of the polls is that you never can quite tell which of the people that you're polling are going to be likely voters.

And sometimes it depends on whether it rains on election day or not.

And so I think that's, that's really going to be critical.

- As we speak on Friday, there's an article in the Washington Post that suggests that it might even be possible that the General Assembly might get a Republican majority.

It's now in the, in the minority, which if that happened, would change all kinds of things in state government.

What about that?

- Well, I will say they've been gaining strength.

You know, four years ago, I think the Republicans fielded 61 candidates for the 100 House seats.

And this year they're fielding 77 statewide, and that's, that's a record.

And that shows you the growth just in really in the past decade or so even less of how far they've come.

I mean, clearly they've been, they've been mobilizing both from the Christian Coalition side and from mainstream Republican side that, that have really taken - Give - You the last word.

- Yeah.

I'm not sure this is, is, they're going to have a turnover in the control of, of the legislature, but I think a two-party system is actually coming into existence maybe for the first time in Virginia history.

- Okay.

We need to stop there.

Thanks, David Lermandale Carlson and Alex Marshall.

Now, who wants what from the Elizabeth River?

And how are they prepared to compromise to get it?

That's coming up on Hampton Roads Week.

- After more than 300 years of heavy use, the Elizabeth River, which flows between Norfolk, Portsmouth, and Chesapeake, is among the most polluted in America.

On Friday in Norfolk, a few hundred people got together for the Elizabeth River Project, which is a meeting between those who have competing agendas for the river to try to find some common ground or some common currents on what to do about its future.

Two of those are Michael Kenzler of the Chesapeake Bay Foundation and George Curtis of the South Tidewater Association of Ship Repairs.

Welcome.

Thank you.

I'm going to start with you, Michael.

Exactly what's the problem with the Elizabeth River and from your special perspective?

- Well, I think, Rebecca, in terms of pollution, there are two problems.

One, as you said, there have been 300 years of heavy industrial use, shipyards creosote plants, fertilizer plants, sewage treatment.

And in the last few years, there's been a lot more effort to reduce that type of pollution.

But as that's reduced, stormwater runoff from building development has increased.

So every type of pollutant you can think of is now reaching the Elizabeth River through storm drains and through sheet flow.

- Now, have you, how have you been able to forge a common ground?

You both have two different perspective, different ways of looking, looking at things.

How have you been able to come to a common meeting?

- It's not that different.

We all are citizens of this area and you would not be in your right mind if you wanted to see the Elizabeth Rover, the degradation continue, or it wouldn't be.

It's not proper.

It's not morally right or anything else.

- And Michael, what do you have to say about it as far as coming together?

I know that you're with the Chesapeake Bay Foundation.

You've got a long history with shipbuilding.

Tell me, how have you been able to meet together?

- Well, I think as business and the environmental community have evolved over the last 20 years, I think we've come to the same point.

And we realize that to be a successful community, a place where people can live and work, we need an economic base that will support that community.

We also need a quality of life that will make people want to live there.

And as George said, we all live in the same community.

Part of the Elizabeth's heritage and history is its activity as a port and as a shipbuilding facility river.

And it's also a very important part of our quality of life.

So we'd like to do what we can to maintain its economic vitality and bring back its ecological vitality.

- Now you mentioned economic vitality.

And that's a concern right now.

The loss of jobs, the shrinking market.

How can we you know, keep the economic vitality, but yet bring it back to its ecological healthiness?

- Well, the, the technologies have advanced so that we can do certain things now with wastewater, for example, with containment of paint over spray, with containment of sandblast, abrasive can do and are doing things.

The technologies are there.

We are, have an R&D program ongoing that is looking for better ways to prepare the surfaces for painting and things of that nature.

So industry is lead, our industry in this area is leading the way of shipyards all across the United States.

- Is there any concern about how it might affect shipyards' economic feasibility?

Is there a concern that with all of the emphasis on bringing the river back and make it more healthy, that it might affect your ability to, to do the, to do the work and to provide jobs?

- It, the, the potential would be there.

But we're dealing with, from Mike's side, Michael's side, we're dealing with reasonable people.

They understand that this community last year, the, the sales of the Stasser South Tidewater Association Ship Repairs reflected 1.8 billion dollars.

And they understand that, and we understand what we have to do to be good corporate citizens and to protect the river and to actually help remediate it.

- Now, I like the word corporate citizens.

Can you talk a little bit about that, Michael?

I mean, what, what is your vision of what a good corporate citizen is all about?

- Well, many people who are business leaders in this community are also civic leaders.

They live here, their families live here, their children go to school here, and they recognize the need to maintain quality of life in this community as well as anyone else.

So people do want to be good corporate citizens, and we're, we found the stasser and the other groups that we work with very responsive.

I'd just like to follow up on another point that George made about why it's worthwhile for businesses to do this.

And some of the new things that are coming, there's a, there's a whole new thing called pollution prevention, toxics use reduction, which George and the other stasser organizations, the shipyards are working on and other, the state of Virginia is starting a program.

The idea is rather than create, treat, and discharge pollution to the air or the water or send it to a landfill, try and change the way we do things so we don't create it in the first place.

Once it's in the system, it's very expensive to deal with, very expensive to get rid of.

But if we can change things the way we do things so that we don't create it, it's a win-win situation.

The environment is better off and business is better off because it doesn't have to spend a lot of money complying with regulations it's not violating.

That's - Right.

Now what about, I know that everybody thinks about a river.

They think they get those wonderful memories of swimming and fishing.

Will the Elizabeth River be, ever be able to be back that stage, do you think?

- That's an aim and objective.

That is an aim and objective of the whole project is to maintain the commercial input in the river, but by the same token, clean it up to the point where hopefully in time, people will be able to swim in it.

When I was a youth growing up, I swam in the river, but it wasn't, it wasn't a kind of swimming that you really should be, should be doing.

River was pretty dirty.

Yeah.

But it's getting better now.

- Do we have a, a timeline, do you think, or do we have a goal set as in the future where we'd like to be 10 years from now, 15 years from now?

- Well, that's part of the, the future.

I think the near future of the project is to see if we can set a goal.

It's, as everyone said at the conference, it's taken us a long time to get the river in this condition.

Although as George said, it is getting better.

And it's going to take a long time to recover.

So right now, I don't think I'd feel comfortable saying, "Well, by the year 2020, we're going to do this because we're just not at that point yet."

- But the key to that, to answer that, is that we make steady and significant progress as we over the years, as year by year, when we assess where we've gotten, as long as we are making positive progress, then the project is doing what it's designed to do.

- Now as a group have you all decided, do you have an agenda?

Do you have a platform?

Do you have some specific goals that you would like to reach?

Anything along that line?

- One of the things, our very next step is to do a risk assessment process, go through a risk assessment process.

Before we can set priorities about what specific things we need to tackle, we need to understand all the things that we're dealing with.

And so there will be groups, committees of different folks, a technical group, a regulatory group, and a citizens group that will be reviewing all the problems, all the issues facing the river, and then trying to come up with an agenda.

And this is about a two-year process that we'll be undergoing beginning this spring to come up with an agenda for things that we can do to begin to fix the river.

- Now you mentioned a citizens group.

How does the typical person who's watching this show, how can they get involved with what you're doing?

Because the river concerns everybody.

And you, you mentioned the fact that we know we need to all be concerned.

We're all part of the same environment.

What can they do?

- Well, one easy thing they can do and be involved right now is to take great care with the way they operate in their homes.

If they're pouring used motor oil down the drain, if they're fertilizing excessively, if they're sending yard waste down the drain, those decisions affect the Elizabeth River right away.

So the way we deal with our waste at home, how much water we use, how much electricity we use right now is having an impact on the river.

That's an immediate thing people can do.

Recognize they're part of the watershed and live more responsibly.

- And don't throw trash out of the window of the car, or don't throw paper on the streets, and don't do things.

Good housekeeping.

Because when we have a rain event, all of that goes down and, and goes into the river.

And - Most people don't realize that the little things that they're doing are making such a big difference.

The - Little things that everybody does will make a tremendous effect, have a tremendous effect on the river.

- Now, I have to always ask, how clean is clean?

What, what is the ideal healthiness for the Elizabeth River in your eyes?

What would you think about that?

- Well, I don't know that I could answer that question right now.

I would say that I don't expect it to be like the Rappahannock River, which is a much different river, much more pristine river.

I don't think it'll ever approach that.

And I'm not sure that that is our goal.

Our goal is to make the river as clean as we can make it, given the multiplicity of uses that it has.

Given the fact that it is very much a working river, which is an economic engine for this community.

How clean can we make it?

And, and that's really, in a general sense, what I feel our goal is.

- Now you, you mentioned the fact that it has multipurposes, multi-uses.

Will there be any uses that'll just have to cease and desist?

- That's an interesting question, and it's a question that was asked during a panel today.

And I got no sense, and George, see if you agree with me, that, that anyone felt that way at all.

That commercial fishing, that recreational use of the river, that public access, protecting real estate values were not incompatible with the commercial and industrial use of the river.

Was that your sense of - That's the - Key to the whole thing.

That you take the big picture and go to this risk assessment.

And once you do that, then we see set priorities what we can do in the near term.

But I as put, as far as putting a fence, and somebody used this analogy, put a fence around the Elizabeth Rouva, don't let anybody use it, and put a fence around Chesapeake Bay, and in time it would become a pristine waterway.

But at the same token, when you do that, the economy of the, of the entire area goes right down.

You don't have an economy.

You're - Right.

Now, I have to ask the big question.

What's going to be the balance?

What do you perceive as what we can do to help the river and what we can do to make sure that our economic vitality with the river remains?

And I'll start my last question.

So I'll let you handle that one, Michael, what do you think?

- Well, that's a tough one, Rebecca.

I think in an ideal world, no pollution would be my goal.

No discharge at all to the river.

It's a living river.

It remains a living river.

And to think that we should use it to discharge a waste to ultimately doesn't make sense.

However that may not be realistic.

Again, I, I'd have to say that we should make it as clean as we can without choking the economic vitality of this community away.

- Well, you got the last word.

Michael Kinsler, thank you so much.

And George Curtis, I appreciate you coming.

Thank you.

Thank you both.

And that's Hampton Road's week for this week.

I'm Rebecca Feaster.

Thanks for being with us.

- And I'm Chris Dicken.

We'll be back next week to look back on the next seven days in Hampton Roads.

We hope you'll be here with us.