>> GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE.

HI, I'M WITH WCMU PUBLIC MEDIA AND I WANT TO WELCOME YOU TO TONIGHT'S PROGRAM HEMINGWAY IN MICHIGAN.

WE'LL BE TAKING A LOOK AT A VERY PIVOTAL TIME IN ONE OF AMERICA'S -- ONE OF THE 20TH CENTURIES GREATEST AUTHORS, ERNEST HEMINGWAY.

AS A BOY, THEY WOULD SPEND SUMMERS IN THEIR CABIN AND THOSE EXPERIENCES THAT WERE HAD HAD A TREMENDOUS EFFECT ON MAN AS WELL AS HIS WRITINGS.

IN A FEW MOMENT I'LL BE JOINED BY FRANK BOWLES AND MICHAEL.

TOGETHER THEY HAVE AMASSED ONE OF THE NATION'S MOST ROBUST HEMINGWAY COLLECTIONS THAT INCLUDES FAMILY SCRAP ARE BOOKS AND LETTERS WRITTEN BY A YOUNG ERNEST HEMINGWAY.

LATER ON I'LL BE JOINED BY LYNN NOVICK AND SARAH BOTSTEIN TWO OF THE FILM MAKERS AND LOOKING AT THE EXCERPTS PLUS LYNNE AND SARAH WILL BE TAKING QUESTIONS FROM YOU.

IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR OUR GUESTS THIS EVENING, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ADD THEM TO THE QUESTION AND ANSWER PART OF THE CHAT.

BUT FIRST I'D LIKE TO BRING IN FRANK BOWLES AND MICHAEL.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> IT'S A PLEASURE.

>> FRANK, I'LL START WITH YOU.

THE CLARKE HISTORIC LIBRARY IS INCREDIBLY ROBUST.

ONE OF THE MOST COMPLETE COLLECTIONS YOU'LL BE ABLE TO FIND ANYWHERE.

COULD YOU GIVE US BACKGROUND.

HOW DID THE HEMINGWAY COLLECTION GET ITS START AND WHAT ARE THE ITEMS WE CAN FIND?

>> IT STARTED WITH A >> IT STARTED WITH A CONVERSATION ABOUT 20 YEARS AGO.

MIKE CAME INTO MY OFFICE AND HE HIMSELF COLLECTED HEMINGWAY MATERIAL ABOUT HEMINGWAY'S TIME IN MICHIGAN, BUT HE WAS ALSO REPRESENTING AN ORGANIZATION, MICHIGAN HEMINGWAY SOCIETY, WHICH WAS VERY INTERESTED IN HEMINGWAY IN MICHIGAN AND A SIMPLE IDEA.

HE SAID NO ONE IS REALLY DOCUMENTING THIS.

CAN THE CLARKE TAKE ON THAT RESPONSIBILITY?

AND I WAS EXCITED AND SCARED.

WE DID NOT HAVE ANY LITERARY COLLECTIONS AND WE WEREN'T GOING TO START WITH SOME SORT OF SMALL TIME LOCAL AUTHOR.

WE WERE GOING TO START WITH A NOBEL LAUREATE.

GO TO THE TOP OF THE MOUNTAIN FIRST.

BUT AFTER CONVERSATIONS AT CMU AND THE DEAN OF LIBRARIES BECAUSE THIS COULD INVOLVE SOME MONEY WE DECIDE TO GO FORWARD.

WHAT IS IN THE COLLECTION TODAY IS A WEALTH OF MATERIAL.

BY AND ABOUT ERNEST HEMINGWAY.

THE ABOUT MATERIAL IS VERY EXCITING AND MOST IMPORTANT ARE A SET OF SCRAPBOOKS THAT HIS MOTHER PUT TOGETHER.

ERNEST HEMINGWAY'S MOTHER DOCUMENTED HER CHILDREN'S SUMMER EXPERIENCES.

EVERY CHILD GOT A SCRAP BOOK.

WE HAVE BOOKS OF ERNEST'S ELDEST SISTER, FIRST BORN IN THE FAMILY, MARCELLINE HEMINGWAY.

THEY'RE ANNOTATED.

THESE ARE GOOD PICTURES.

IN ADDITION TO THAT KIND OF MATERIAL, AND VARIOUS OTHER SUBSIDIARY MATERIAL, WE HAVE THINGS WRITTEN BY ERNEST HEMINGWAY HIMSELF.

HE'S TRYING TO PERSUADE A FRIEND TO COME TO MICHIGAN FOR THE SUMMER.

WE HAVE A POSTCARD FROM ITALY WHERE HE WRITES BACK HOME AND HE'S WRITING TO A FRIEND'S COTTAGE PLACE THAT SOLD CHICKEN DINNERS TO THE TOURISTS AND HE SAID I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO GETTING HOME AND GETTING A GOOD CHICKEN DINNER.

THESE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS YOU'RE FINDING HERE.

WONDERFUL AND PERSONAL DOCUMENTATION.

>> IN ADDITION TO THAT TONIGHT'S EVENT, HEMINGWAY IN MICHIGAN, WE HERE AT PUBLIC MEDIA HAVE PRODUCED SEVERAL INSTALLMENTS OF A WEB SERIES CALLED "LET'S GO BACK."

STORIES FROM THE CLARKE HISTORICAL LIBRARY AND WE FEATURE THE HEMINGWAY COLLECTION AND TELL THE STORY ABOUT OF ERNEST HEMINGWAY IN MICHIGAN.

RIGHT NOW WE'LL GO AHEAD AND ROLL A CLIP.

A LITTLE OF TEASER TRAILER FOR THE "LET'S GO BACK" WEB SERIES.

>> THERE ARE AN FEW MAJOR HEMINGWAY COLLECTIONS AND ONE OF THEM IS HERE IN CENTRAL MICHIGAN UNIVERSITY.

THE THRILL OF SOME OF THIS IS THAT YOU HOLD A LETTER THAT ERNEST HEMINGWAY THAT HE WROTE AND A SCRAP BOOK THAT HIS MOTHER PUT TOGETHER AND PICTURES THAT HIS FATHER TOOK SPLASHING IN THE LAKE.

THIS TELLS YOU WHAT IT WAS LIKE FOR THIS YOUNG MAN TO GROW UP IN NORTHERN MICHIGAN AND GO ON AND BECOME A MAJOR LITERARY FIGURE IN THE WORLD.

WE THINK OF ERNEST HEMINGWAY IS A NOBEL LAUREATE AND THEY THOUGHT OF HIM AS A KID.

>> THE IT WAS JUST ANOTHER FAMILY UP NORTH.

HE HUNTED.

HE FISHED AND HE HUNG OUT WITH HIS FRIENDS.

HE WAS JUST A KID.

SOMEHOW THIS KID BECAME THE PERSON THAT WE KNOW AS ERNEST HEMINGWAY THE LAUREATE.

>> MICHIGAN BECAME THE SUBJECT MATTER OF HIS EARLIEST AND SOME MIGHT ARGUE SOME OF HIS WRITING HE DID.

HE FOUND HIS STYLE THROUGH HIS STORIES.

>> THAT BAY, THAT LAKE NEVER REALLY LEFT HIM.

HE ALWAYS HAD THE SAME FAST NATIONS.

ERNEST HEMINGWAY COULD TAKE WHAT HE WAS EXPERIENCING, WHAT HE WAS FEELING AND INTERNALIZING AND CHANGE THAT INTO ART.

>> AGAIN, YOU CAN FIND THAT ENTIRE SERIES ONLINE AT WCMU.ORG OR YOUTUBE CHANNEL.

I WANT TO BRING INTO THE CONVERSATION MIKE.

MIKE, IN THAT VIDEO WE JUST SAW WE WERE ABLE TO SEE A LOT OF THE PHOTOS THAT LIVE INSIDE THE CLARKE'S HEMINGWAY COLLECTION.

I HEARD YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HEMINGWAY AND THE FAMILY AND THEIR TIME IN NORTHERN MICHIGAN.

I WAS WONDERING, FOR STARTERS, COULD YOU SET THE STAGE FOR US.

WHAT DOES HEMINGWAY'S NORTHERN MICHIGAN, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE?

WHAT WOULD ERNEST AND HIS FAMILY MEMBERS HAVE BEEN DOING?

>> THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN MAYBE NOT SURPRISINGLY DOING AN AWFUL LOT OF THE SAME THINGS THAT WE ALL DO UP NORTH IN THE SUMMERTIME.

THEY WOULD HAVE FISHED.

THEY WOULD HAVE HUNG OUT IN THE WATER AND TEASED THEIR BROTHERS AND SISTERS AND GONE FOR BOAT RIDES.

IT'S REMARKABLE THE ACTIVITIES THAT ARE SIMILAR 100 YEARS LATER.

THEY WERE SO IMPRESSED WITH THE AREA THAT THEY BOUGHT LAND AND 1899 THEY BROUGHT THEIR 16-YEAR-OLD SON UP WHEN THEY CITED THE LOCATION WHERE THE COTTAGE WOULD BE.

40 X 20, VERY RUSTIC WITH HAND ME DOWN FURNITURE AND CONTINUE TO USE IT RIGHT UP THROUGH -- WELL, TODAY.

THE COTTAGE IS PRIVATELY OWNED BUT STILL IN THE FAMILY.

THE HEMINGWAYS WOULD TAKE A TRAIN OR STEAM SHIP TO GET TO NORTHERN MICHIGAN AND COME UP AFTER THE SCHOOL YEAR GOT OUT AND NOT GO BACK UNTIL THE SCHOOL STARTED IN THE FALL.

THE FAMILY WOULD DO.

AND ERNEST WOULD COME BACK AND SPEND TIME, EVEN EVENTUALLY GETTING MARRIED HERE 1921 AND COME TO OWN THE COTTAGE AND STARTED IN THE 1930'S AND OWN THAT UNTIL HIS DEATH IN 1961.

IT WAS A LIFELONG CONNECTION IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

>> THE FAMILY SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN NORTHERN MICHIGAN THROUGHOUT 1899 TO 1919.

BUT REALLY THAT YEAR 1919, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT YEAR, ESPECIALLY WITH ERNEST HEMINGWAY.

THAT WAS REALLY ERNEST HEMINGWAY WAS REALLY AT A CROSSROADS, HIS -- HE WAS WAR TORN AND HEART BROKEN AND CAME TO NORTHERN MICHIGAN TO FIND SOLACE.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THAT?

>> IT REALLY WAS A CROSSROADS A BEFORE AND AFTER.

IT'S ACCURATE TO SAY THAT REALLY UP UNTIL THAT POINT, UNTIL 1919, THAT HE WAS A BOY, I WHAT YOU A SON AND HE WAS BROTHER AND WASN'T A MAN.

HE GRADUATED HIGH SCHOOL IN 1917.

WENT OFF IN 1918 AND JOINED THE RED CROSS AS AN AMBULANCE DRIVER IN ITALY AND WAS AT THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME AND ENDED UP WITH WOUNDS FROM A MORTAR SHARE AND MACHINE GUN FIRE AND RECUPERATED AND CAME BACK IN 1919 AND POSTER CHILD FOR POSTTRAUMATIC STRESS.

HE WAS A MESS.

HE WAS ALMOST LOST HIS LIFE, LET ALONE HIS LEGS.

WAS AT HIS WIT'S END.

DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS DOING FOR A LIVING AND ONE THING HE HELD ON TO WAS THE LOVE OF A RED CROSS NURSE, AGNES.

THEY PLAN TO DO GET MARRIED, HE THOUGHT AND THEN IN MARCH OF THAT YEAR, SHE DUMPED HIM.

AND SPIRALLING HIM DEEPER DOWN INTO DEPRESSION SADNESS AND CONFUSION.

1919, HE DEVOTES TO TRY TO MAKE THINGS MAKE SENSE.

HE WRITES LETTERS TO FRIENDS FROM THE RED CROSS FROM KANSAS CITY WHERE HE WORKED AS A REPORTER IN 1918.

INVITING THEM TO COME TO BEAUTIFUL NORTHERN MICHIGAN AND EXTOLLED THE OPPORTUNITIES UP NORTH.

AND THEN WHEN FALL CAME HIS PARENTS WONDERING IF IT'S COLLEGE TIME HE DECIDED TO BECOME A WRITER.

IN THE FALL OF 1919 HE MOVED INTO A BOARDING HOUSE AND LIVED THERE AND BEGAN TO SERIOUSLY WRITE FICTION.

HE WOULD NOT REALLY STRIKE IT RICH OR STRIKE IT SUCCESSFULLY UNTIL HE WAS -- AFTER HE WAS MARRIED IN 1920 WHEN HE WENT TO PARIS.

WHAT HE DID WHEN HE GOT TO PARIS HE WROTE ABOUT WHAT HE KNEW.

THAT WAS ADVICE THAT HE WAS GIVEN AND TOOK TO HEART.

IN 1921 HE WROTE A SERIES OF SHORT STORIES AND NOVEL SET IN NORTHERN MICHIGAN.

AND THE NICK ADAMS PORTRAY EXOTIC PLACES.

PARIS WITH PABLO PICASSO.

1919 HE BECOMES A MAN AND HIS OWN MAN AT THAT TIME.

>> YEAH, OBVIOUSLY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ERNEST HEMINGWAY GOING BACK A LITTLE BIT, TALKING ABOUT HIS FAMILY, EARLY IN HIS LIFE THIS IS A TIME IN HIS LIFE THAT ISN'T TALKED ABOUT INCREDIBLY LOT.

I THINK MOST PEOPLE WHEN THEY HAVE A PICTURE IT'S THE WHITE HAIR AND WHITE BEARD AND IT'S THE PAPA HEMINGWAY.

TALKING WITH BOTH OF YOU, ONE THING I REMEMBER YOU GUYS ALWAYS SAY IS THAT NOBODY KNEW WHO HEMINGWAY WAS.

AND THIS WAS KIND OF A TINY MOMENT BEFORE HE GOT THAT WORLDWIDE FAME.

FRANK, WHEN WE LOOK THROUGH THOSE SCRAP BOOKS AND WE SEE THIS FAMILY THAT COULD BE ANY FAMILY IN NORTHERN MICHIGAN, WHAT DO WE LEARN ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES?

HOW UNIQUE WERE THE HEMINGWAY FAMILY EXPERIENCE AND ALSO HOW UNIQUE WAS IT?

>> AMAZINGLY IT'S LIKE AS MIKE HAS ALREADY SAID, THIS LOOKS LIKE ANY FAMILY FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO OWN A COTTAGE IN NORTHERN MICHIGAN.

THEY SWIM.

THEY DO HOT DOGS ON THE GRILL.

THEY PUT MARSHMALLOWS ON STICKS.

THEY DO ALL THE THINGS WE STILL DO.

SO IN THAT RESPECT THEY'RE ABSOLUTELY NORMAL.

IT'S WHAT EVERYONE STILL EXPERIENCES IN NORTHERN MICHIGAN WHEN THEY GO UP NORTH.

WHERE THEY'RE DIFFERENT IS THAT THIS FAMILY HAS A VERY UNIQUE BACKGROUND.

HEMINGWAY'S FATHER WAS AN OBSTETRICIAN.

HE LOVED NATURE AND THE OUTDOORS AND TAUGHT ERNEST HEMINGWAY TO WATCH CAREFULLY.

HE TAUGHT ERNEST HEMINGWAY THE JOYS OF HUNTING AND FISHING AND ERNEST HEMINGWAY ADORED HIS FATHER.

HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS MOTHER WAS MUCH MORE COMPLEX.

HIS MOTHER WAS TRAINED TO BE AN OPERA SINGER AND WAS ON THE VERGE OF A PREMIERE IN NEW YORK CITY.

GAVE UP THAT CAREER TO COME BACK TO OAK PARK, ILLINOIS, SUBURBAN CHICAGO, MARRY AND RAISE CHILDREN.

SHE WAS A TALENTED SINGER AND TALENTED CHORAL LEADER.

SHE ACTUALLY MADE MORE MONEY WITH THE FAMILY THAN HER HUSBAND, THE DOCTOR DID, AND SHE WASN'T HESITANT TO REMIND THE FAMILY OF THAT.

HEMINGWAY WOULD PORTRAY HER VERY UNCHARITABLY.

HE DIDN'T LIKE HER.

HE WAS MAD AT HER.

HE FOUND HER DOMINEERING.

HE BLAMED HIS MOTHER FOR HIS FATHER'S DEATH, HIS FATHER COMMITTED SUICIDE.

AT THE SAME TIME HE HAS ALL THIS ANGER.

AFTER HIS FATHER'S SUICIDE HIS MOTHER HAS A PROBLEM WITH INCOME AND SHE SETS UP A TRUST FUND ON THE OF THE MONEY HE'S MAKING OUT OF THESE MAJOR NOVELS TO TAKE CARE OF HIS MOTHER FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE.

THIS IS A VERY COMPLEX RELATIONSHIP.

>> DEFINITELY A COMPLEX RELATIONSHIP.

BUT FROM THE BOOKS THAT HAVE BEEN WRITTEN BY THE HEMINGWAY FAMILY AND OF COURSE THE NICK ADAMS STORIES, IT IS NO QUESTION THAT THE HEMINGWAY'S TIME IN NORTHERN MICHIGAN HAD A TREMENDOUS IMPACT ON HIS LIFE AND ALL THEIR LIVES.

MICHAEL, WHEN YOU LOOK AT HEMINGWAY'S LIFE AFTER HE LEFT NORTHERN MICHIGAN, WHERE DO YOU SEE THE IMPACTS FROM THAT TIME THAT CHILDHOOD ON HIS FUTURE WRITINGS AND WHERE HE WOULD GO ON IN THE WORLD?

>> HE WILL WITH, MICHIGAN PROVIDED A DEEP WELL OF MEMORIES AND IMPRESSIONS THAT HE GREW ON FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE.

WHEN HE STARTED WRITING SHORT STORIES AND CREATED A CHARACTER BY THE NAME OF NICK ADAMS AND THERE WERE DOZENS OF STORIES THAT FEATURED THIS NICK ADAMS YOUNG MAN, YOUNG BOY AND AS A TEENAGER AND THEN AS AN OLDER MAN WITH CHILDREN OF HIS OWN, HE JUST HAPPENED TO HAVE A FATHER WHO WAS A DOCTOR AND MOTHER WHO WAS A LITTLE OVERBEARING AND LITTLE SISTERS AND HUNG OUT IN THE AREA AND HE ENCOUNTERED LIFE.

THIS YOUNG MAN WHO THOUGHT HE KNEW WHAT LIFE WAS ALL ABOUT AND ONLY TO EXPERIENCE SOMETHING THAT TAUGHT HIM SOMETHING NEW.

THOSE ARE THE MOST PRONOUNCED YOU SEE MICHIGAN'S INFLUENCE ON HEMINGWAY.

BUT THOSE WHO KNOW HIS LIFE WILL FIND REFERENCES TO IT THROUGHOUT HIS WRITINGS FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE AND RIGHT UP TO THE END WHEN HE WROTE A BOOK OF VIGNETTES ON WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO LIVE IN PARIS IN THE 1920'S.

HE TALKED VERY POETIC ABOUT WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO SIT IN A CAF AND TO WRITE THE STORY, THE BIG TWO HEARTED RIVER, AND WHAT IT'S LIKE TO TAKE HIMSELF BACK TO THAT STREAM IN NORTHERN MICHIGAN.

HE MAY NOT HAVE LIVED IN NORTHERN MICHIGAN.

HE VISITED ONLY ONCE THAT WE KNOW OF IN THE 40'S AND THEN HE DIDN'T -- HE CAME TO TOWN BUT WHEN ASKED IF HE WANTED TO GO OUT TO HIS COTTAGE, HE SAID NO.

I DON'T WANT TO DESTROY THE MEMORY I HAVE OF IT.

HE MADE THE MISTAKE HE THOUGHT HE GOING BACK TO THE BATTLEFIELD WHERE HE WAS WOUNDED IN THE FIRST WORLD WAR IN ITALY, AFTER THE WAR, AND HE WAS SO DISTURBED HOW DIFFERENT IT WAS FROM HIS MEMORY HE JUST SIMPLY DIDN'T WANT TO DO THAT WITH THAT NORTHERN MICHIGAN THAT HE HELD IN HIS MEMORY AND HEART.

>> I KNOW MICHAEL AND FRANK, BOTH OF YOU HAVE BEEN FORTUNATE TO VISIT WIND MERE ON WALDEN LAKE.

WHAT KIND OF IMPRESSION DID SPENDING TIME AT WIND MERE GIVE YOU?

GIVE US A DESCRIPTION OF WHAT THAT WAS LIKE?

FRANK, WE CAN START WITH YOU.

>> IT'S A COTTAGE ON LAKE FRONT.

YOU CAN SEE WHY THE HEMINGWAY'S PICKED THIS FOR THEIR CHILDREN.

IT WOULD BE A GREAT PLACE TO SWIM AND PLAY.

BUT ONE HAS TO BE REALISTIC A LITTLE BIT WHEN WE SAY THE HEMINGWAY SUMMER HOME WHEN IT WAS CONSTRUCTED AT THE TURN OF THE CENTURY WAS A 20 X 40 FOOT BUILDING WITH TWO BEDROOMS AND FIREPLACE AND OUTHOUSE OUT BACK.

THIS IS AN GRAND COTTAGE.

IT'S PRETTY MODEST PLACE.

THEY'LL DO LITTLE ADDITIONS IS BUT IT'S REALLY GOING TO BE A SUMMER HOME AND SUMMER COTTAGE IN A VERY TRADITIONAL SENSE.

IT'S NOT A HOME IN THE SENSE OF ALL SEASON HOME ON THE LAKE.

THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE THINGS I WOULD TAKE AWAY FROM THE COTTAGE.

MIKE?

>> WELL, AND I WOULD RECALL AT AMERICAN LITERATURE CLASS AT CMU AND WE READ HEMINGWAY WOULD WINK AT US AND SAID IF YOU'RE NICE TO ME I MAY TAKE YOU UP NORTH TO SEE THE HEMINGWAY ESTATE AND IT CONJURED BIG HIGH WALLS AND COMPOUND.

AND LITTLE DID I KNOW YEARS LATER WHEN I FINALLY DID GO THERE, IT WAS AS FRANK DESCRIBED.

WHEN THE HEMINGWAYS BUILT IT THEY BOUGHT 200 FOOT OF FRONTAGE FROM A FARMER.

THE FARM'S CATTLE CAME DOWN AND DRANK FROM THE LAKE.

THEY PUT UP A RUSTIC FENCE TO KEEP THEM OUT.

THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO WENT THERE FOR AN OVERNIGHT OR SO, TOURISTS AND SOME THAT WENT TO THE COMPOUNDS LIKE BAYVIEW BUT HEMINGWAYS WERE AMONG THE FIRST WHERE THEY HAD THEIR OWN PLACE AND THAT PLACE WAS VERY MODEST AND REMAINS MODEST.

AND FOR THOSE OF US WHO APPRECIATE HEMINGWAY'S LITERARY TALENTS OF THAT AND HIS PERSONAL LIFE, IT'S KIND OF A SHRINE.

I WOULD SAY AGAIN, THERE ARE BEAUTIFUL LARGE HOMES THAT ARE ALL AROUND THE LAKE.

IT'S A GORGEOUS LAKE.

BUT THE HEMINGWAY PLACE LOOKS LIKE A COTTAGE AND I'M SURE IT SMELLED LIKE THAT WHEN THEY OPENED IT UP IN THE SPRING AND THEY BOARDED UP THE WINDOWS IN THE FALL AND IT WAS A COTTAGE AND REMAINS A NICE COTTAGE BUT CERTAINLY NOT THE ELABORATE HOME YOU'LL FIND ELSEWHERE AROUND THE LAKE.

>> OBVIOUSLY WE KNOW TOO YOU SPOKE THAT ERNEST HEMINGWAY SPENT A GOOD PORTION OF TIME IN PETOSKEY.

IF SOMEONE WERE TO VISIT AND THEY WANTED TO WALK IN THE FOOTSTEPS.

WHAT KIND OF PLACES ARE AROUND THERE THAT ARE ACCESSIBLE THAT PEOPLE COULD GET A HEMINGWAY EXPERIENCE?

>> I'D SAY A COUPLE THINGS.

FIRST STOP I WOULD DIRECT THEM TO IS THE LITTLE TRAVERS HISTORY MUSEUM WHICH IS LOCATED IN THE TRAIN DEPOT ON THE WATERFRONT.

THEY HAVE A PERMANENT HEMINGWAY DISPLAY THAT IS FIRST RATE.

CONTAINS ARTIFACTS FROM THE FAMILY AND SIGNED EDITIONS AND PEOPLE ARE KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT HEMINGWAY.

I'D SAY DO THAT FIRST.

SECOND THING I WOULD DO IS TO SAY, PEOPLE SHOULD PROBABLY THINK ABOUT GETTING IN TOUCH WITH THE MICHIGAN HEMINGWAY SOCIETY.

THE SOCIETY HAS BEEN AROUND CLOSE TO 30 YEARS NOW AND HOLDS -- WELL, HELD, ANNUAL CONFERENCES AND THEY OFTEN IF NOT ALWAYS CONTAIN SOME KIND OF LOCAL TOUR.

THERE'S ALSO A SIGNED POSTED TOUR, A MY HEMINGWAY PLACE TOUR AND THERE ARE BROCHURES ARE AVAILABLE THROUGH THE CONVENTION BUREAU AND I BELIEVE THE WEBSITE IS UP WITH 20 DIFFERENT HEMINGWAY LOCATIONS NOT ONLY IN THE TOWN ITSELF BUT OUT AT HORTON BAY AND OTHER LOCATIONS.

I GUESS THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I WOULD SAY.

THERE ARE AN AWFUL LOT OF PILGRIMS WHO SEE HIS SPOTS.

MOST AUTHORS PLACES THAT THEY WROTE ABOUT ARE GONE.

THEY'VE EVOLVED AND CHANGED AND NO MORE.

IN HEMINGWAY'S CASE YOU CAN GO TO HORTON BAY AND SEE THAT SAME WOODEN FRAMED STORE THAT HE WROTE ABOUT, HORTON BAY GENERAL STORE.

YOU CAN SEE THE HOUSE WHERE HIS WEDDING RECEPTION WAS HELD.

YOU CAN WALK DOWN TO THE DOCK AT HORTON BAY WHERE STORIES ARE SET.

I CERTAINLY ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO TAKE A LOOK MICHIGAN HEMINGWAY SOCIETY AND THAT DISPLAY.

>> I'VE BEEN THERE AND IT'S A TREMENDOUS PLACE.

WE DID GET ONE QUESTION IN SO FAR ON OUR ZOOM Q&A.

DID HEMINGWAY MARRY A WOMAN FROM HORTON BAY?

>> REAL INTERESTING STORY.

YOU HAVE ERNEST WHO IS FROM UPPER MIDDLE CLASS, VERY PROPER CHURCH WEDDING BIG WEDDING SOCIETY EVENTS, OAK PARK AND YOU HAVE HADLEY RICHARDSON WHO IS FROM ST. LOUIS WHOSE PARENTS DIED BUT SHE ALSO COMES FROM A SETTING THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A MORE FORMAL WEDDING EXPECTED.

WHAT DOES HEMINGWAY -- WHAT DO HEMINGWAY AND HADLEY DECIDE?

THEY'LL GET MARRIED AT HORTON BAY.

INDEED THEY DO.

THEY HAVE A CLUSTER OF FRIENDS AND A CHURCH WASN'T BEING USED AND THEY GET PERMISSION TO USE THAT.

HEMINGWAY WRITES FRIENDS SAYING FIND ME A PREACHER BECAUSE WE NEED SOMEONE TO CONDUCT THE SERVICE.

THE SERVICE IS HELD AND CHICKEN DINNER AFTER THE SERVICE AND THEN HEMINGWAY WILL ROW HIS NEW BRIDE ACROSS THE LAKE TO THE FAMILY COTTAGE AND THAT'S WHERE THEY WILL SPEND HONEYMOON SUFFERING FROM COLDS AND THEY PULLED MATTRESS OUT IN FRONT OF THE FIREPLACE BECAUSE IT WAS SO COLD IN SEPTEMBER OF 1921 WHEN THEY GOT MARRIED.

>> HE WITH TALKED SO FAR THIS EVENING A LOT ABOUT HEMINGWAY AND THE INFLUENCE THAT MICHIGAN HAD WITH THEM.

BEFORE WE GET INTO OUR FIRST CLIP OF HEMINGWAY, THE DOCUMENTARY, THE FILM BY KEN BURNS AND LYNN NOVICK THAT PREMIERES APRIL 5TH ON PBS I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE CLARKE LIBRARY COLLECTION.

I REMEMBER YOU SAYING TO ME A WHILE AGO THAT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING ABOUT THIS COLLECTION IS NOT SIMPLY TO HAVE IT BUT TO SHARE IT.

CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THE HEMINGWAY COLLECTION AT THE CLARKE IS USED AND IN FACT WAS USED WITH FLORENTINE FILMS.

>> WHEN PEOPLE COME IN THEY'RE AMAZED WHAT YOU CAN PRESENT TO THEM AND THEY SAY, WHY DID YOU DO THIS?

AND THEY SAID BECAUSE WE BUILT IT FOR YOU.

WE BUILT THIS FOR PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO DOCUMENT THE LIFE OF ERNEST HEMINGWAY IN MICHIGAN.

WE WERE CONTACT WITH THEM FOR TWO YEARS.

THIS WAS NOT A ONCE AND DONE SORT OF ENCOUNTER.

WHEN WE WERE CONTACTED BY THE STAFF WE POINTED THEM TO ONLINE RESOURCES WE HAVE.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE CMU DIGITAL COLLECTIONS, YOU'LL FIND MOST OF THE SCRAPBOOKS ARE DIGITIZED AND THEY'RE THERE AND YOU CAN SEE THEM.

BUT WE HAVE OTHER RESOURCES THAT ARE NOT ONLINE.

IN THE END WE PROBABLY SENT THEM A HUNDRED IMAGES AND THEY THEN CAME BACK TO US.

THE THING WE HAD ONLINE WERE NOT BROADCAST QUALITY AND THEY NEEDED BETTER RESOLUTION AND WE MADE THAT POSSIBLE.

THEY WOULD SAY, THAT'S A GREAT PICTURE DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING MORE.

WELL, YEAH.

HOW ABOUT THIS CAME?

THIS CAME DOWN TO A FINAL QUESTION WHICH MIKE WOULD REMEMBER WELL.

WE GOT SORT OF A LAST MINUTE COMMUNICATION SAYING WE NEED A PICTURE OF HORTON BAY.

DO YOU HAVE ONE?

WE'RE LIKE, NOT IN THE HEMINGWAY COLLECTION PROPER BUT AFTER A DAY OF HUNTING AROUND -- AND THIS SHOWS YOU THE IMPORTANCE OF THE COLLEAGUES AND FRIENDS WE WORK WITH -- WE FOUND THAT PICTURE IN A PUBLICATION OF THE MICHIGAN HEMINGWAY SOCIETY.

WE WERE ABLE TO A COPY OF THE PICTURE AT THE SUFFICIENT RESOLUTION FOR THE DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKERS AND GET THAT TO THEM.

SO IT WAS A BACK AND FORTH.

BUT IT'S WHAT WE DO IN REFERENCE AND WHAT IS SO IMPORTANT ABOUT A SPECIAL COLLECTIONS LIBRARY THAT WE HAD THE TIME AND ACT TO HELP PEOPLE LIKE FLORENTINE FILMS.

>> BEFORE WE GET INTO THAT WE HAVE A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS FROM OUR AUDIENCE THAT I WANTED TO BE ABLE TO ASK.

ARE TOURS GIVEN?

IT'S PLACE NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC IS THAT CORRECT?

>> IT REALLY IS.

IT'S -- IT CAN BE AWKWARD.

IT IS A FAMILY COTTAGE AND IT'S USED AS SUCH AND YET IT'S SUCH A TOUCH STONE FOR SO MANY.

IT'S LOCATION IS NOT PUBLICIZED AND IT'S BEEN OPEN IN THE PAST OCCASIONALLY FOR NON-PROFIT FUNDRAISING EVENTS HOSTED BY THE GENTLEMAN WHO OWNED IT.

BUT IT WAS BY INVITATION ONLY.

AND CERTAINLY MICHIGAN HEMINGWAY SOCIETY GROUP AND HEMINGWAY SUPPORTERS IN THAT AREA TELL PEOPLE IT'S NOT OPEN.

IT'S -- YOU SHOULD STAY OFF THE PROPERTY AND IT'S OKAY TO DRIVE BY ON THE ROAD BUT NOT A PLACE THAT IS OPEN AND THERE'S NO PARKING AND IT'S HIGHLY RESIDENTIAL AREA AND WHAT YOU NEED TO DO IS GO TO THE CLARKE AND LOOK AT TERRIFIC PICTURES OF IT AS OPPOSED TO GOING INTO IT.

>> I THINK THE FAMILY WOULD APPRECIATE THAT.

>> OR GO ONLINE AND PER USE THE COLLECTION.

ALSO REAL QUICK WE HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION FROM HILLARY.

HELLO FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE.

IS THE RAILROAD BRIDGE NICK ADAMS STOOD ON REAL AND IS IT STILL THERE?

>> YES AND YES.

IF YOU GO TO MICHIGAN.

THERE IS THE RAILROAD BRIDGE THERE AND THE PILINGS ARE THERE THAT YOU CAN SEE AND HE NAILED IT PRETTY HARD.

IT'S INTERESTING, TOO, BECAUSE IN THE BIG TWO HEARTED RIVER NICK ADAMS FISHES ALONE.

BUT FRANK KNOWS THAT THERE WAS A FISHING TRIP IN 1919 WHERE HEMINGWAY WENT WITH TWO BUDDIES AND THEY FIXED THE FOX RIVER AND WE KNOW THIS BECAUSE HE SENT A POSTCARD BOASTING ABOUT THE CATCHES THEY MADE.

THERE IS A TWO HEARTED RIVER.

HEMINGWAY USED THAT NAME BECAUSE HE THOUGHT IT SOUNDED LIKE PURE POETRY.

MORE SO THAN THE FOX.

BUT YES IT'S STILL THERE.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

MICHAEL AUTHOR AND HISTORIAN AND AUTHOR OF PICTURING HEMINGWAY'S MICHIGAN AND FRANK BOWLS DIRECTOR OF THE LIBRARY RIGHT HERE ON THE CAMPUS OF CENTRAL MICHIGAN UNIVERSITY.

THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

>> THANK YOU, IT WAS A PLEASURE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

NOW IN A FEW MOMENTS WE'LL BE PREMIERES THIS MONDAY, APRIL 5TH AT 8:00 P.M.

IF YOU'RE IN MICHIGAN WCMU OR CHECK YOUR LOCAL LISTINGS.

NOW I'LL BE JOINED BY TWO OF THE FILL MAKERS DIRECTOR LYNN NOVICK AND SARAH BOTSTEIN.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> LYNN, I'D LIKE TO START WITH YOU.

WE JUST HAD A VERY NICE CONVERSATION WITH MICHAEL AND FRANK OF THE CLARKE HISTORICAL LIBRARY.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCES WITH BOTH MICHAEL AND FRANK AT THE CLARKE HISTORICAL LIBRARY AND HOW THEY WERE ABLE TO HELP YOU GUYS IN THIS PRODUCTION?

>> YEAH, SO FIRST I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT WE UNDERSTAND AND WE KNEW FROM THE BEGINNING HOW IMPORTANT NORTHERN MICHIGAN IS TO HEMINGWAY'S LIFE AND WORK.

SO WE KNEW WE WOULD BE FOCUSSING OUR EFFORTS WITH THE RESOURCES THERE, AND I WAS ABLE TO COME TO MICHIGAN AND MICHAEL VERY GENOUS LY SHOWED ME THE PLACES THAT WERE IMPORTANT TO HEMINGWAY AND THAT WAS INCREDIBLY MEANINGFUL.

IT FELT ALL THE SUDDEN TOUCHING HIS WORLD BY BEING THERE AND FRANK BOWLES AND THE LIBRARY HELPED OUR STAFF TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THE TREASURES OF THE HEMINGWAY COLLECTION TO GO BEYOND WHAT'S ONLINE AS HE SAID AND TO FIND WAYS THAT WE COULD TELL THE STORY OF HEMINGWAY'S LIFE IN MICHIGAN THROUGH THE COLLECTION THERE.

ESPECIALLY WHEN COVID HAPPENED, WE WERE A BIT PANICKED BECAUSE WE HAD BEEN GIVEN SORT OF RESEARCH MATERIALS BUT NOW WE NEEDED HIGH RESOLUTION SCANS AND THEY GRACIOUSLY HELPED US FIND A WAY TO GET ACCESS TO FINISH THE FILM WHICH WAS NOT A FORE GONE CONCLUSION LAST MARCH.

>> TALKING ABOUT THE FILM "HEMINGWAY."

2021 MARKS 60 YEARS SINCE THE PASSING OF ERNEST HEMINGWAY.

WHY HEMINGWAY AND WHY NOT COVER THIS MAN'S LIFE?

SARAH?

>> WE DIDN'T SET OUT TO MAKE A FILM ABOUT HEMINGWAY THAT AIRED IN 2021.

WHEN I FIRST CAME TO WORK WITH KEN AND LYNN I WENT TO EVERYONE -- A SENIOR STAFF MEETING AND THAT WAS 1997 AND 1988 AND LYNN RECENTLY COME BACK FROM A VERY PRO FOUND WE NOW UNDERSTAND TRIP TO KEY WEST WHERE SHE VISITED THE HEMINGWAY HOUSE AND JUST HAD KIND OF AS SHE WOULD SAY AN AH-HA MOMENT SHE BOUGHT SOME BIOGRAPHIES IN THE GIFT SHOP AND READ THEM VORACIOUSLY AND PUT HER HAND DOWN TO SAY SHE WANTED DO HEMINGWAY AND FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS AND OTHER PROJECTS THAT WE DID TOOK US A WHILE TO GET THE PROJECT OFF THE GROUND TO DECIDE TO REALLY DO IT AND WHILE WE WERE MAKING OUR VIETNAM SERIES WE -- WHICH WAS 6.5, IS 7 YEARS AGO IN THE MIDST OF THAT PRODUCTION WENT OUT AND MET WITH THE FAMILY AND INTERVIEWED PATRICK HEMINGWAY AND WENT TO THE HEMINGWAY COLLECTION AND YOU KNOW IT'S AN INTERESTING TIME TO BE TALKING ABOUT HEMINGWAY, TO HAVE THE CONVERSATION ABOUT NOT ONLY HIS LIFE BUT HIS WORK AND WE'RE HAPPY TO BE HERE AND GRATEFUL TO MICHIGAN.

>> SPEAKING OF MICHIGAN, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A MAN WHO WENT ALL AROUND THE WORLD.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE TIME HE SPENT AS A YOUTH IN MICHIGAN, DID IT CHANGE YOUR OPINION OF HIM?

WAS FINDING MORE ABOUT HIS YOUTH, WERE YOU ABLE TO POKE A FEW HOLES AND LEARN MORE ABOUT HIM?

>> I MEAN, FOR MYSELF, MY FIRST IMAGING OF HEMINGWAY'S LIFE IN MICHIGAN WAS THROUGH THE NICK ADAMS STORIES AND HE CONJURES UP A WORLD THAT I DIDN'T REALIZE WAS SO REAL UNTIL WE BEGAN TO UNDERSTAND THE TIME HE SPENT IN MICHIGAN AND HOW IMPORTANT IT WAS FOR HIM AND IT DIDN'T BECOME FULLY REAL UNTIL WE SAW THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT I UNDERSTAND HIS FATHER TOOK OF THE FAMILY AND THEIR LIFE IN MICHIGAN.

THAT WAS JUST TOTALLY REVOLUTIONARY.

THERE WAS NOTHING MYTHIC ABOUT IT.

THIS IS THEM IN THEIR WORLD DOING THE STUFF THEY DO AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY BECAME REAL PEOPLE.

NO ONE KNOWS THAT THIS LITTLE BOY'S GOING TO BE ERNEST HEMINGWAY.

IT'S REMARKABLE PROCESS.

WHEN IT'S NOT REALLY REAL AND THEN BECOMES REAL.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WELL I THINK WITH THAT WE'LL GO AHEAD AND SET UP THE FIRST CLIP HAINES IN BERKELEY, CALIFORNIA, AND HE WANTED TO KNOW WHAT WAS THE MOST SURPRISING OR MOST OVERLOOK ASPECT OR FACTOID OF HEMINGWAY'S LIFE YOU LEARNED THROUGH YOUR WORK ON THE FILM?

>> THAT'S A VERY HARD QUESTION TO ANSWER.

I'LL SAY TWO THINGS.

ONE IS THERE ARE SO MANY ASPECTS OF EXPLORING BIOGRAPHY THAT EVERY DAY YOU LEARN SOMETHING THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT A FAMOUS PERSON WHO YOU HAVE SOME PERCEPTION OF WHO THEY ARE.

SO I THINK THERE WERE SURPRISING THINGS ABOUT BOTH HIS LIFE AND HIS WORK.

AND I THINK THE NICK ADAMS STORIES AND HIS EARLY LIFE ARE A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THIS CONSTANT INTERPLAY OF WHAT HAPPENED IN HIS LIFE AND HOW HE USES THOSE EXPERIENCES AND HIS OBSERVATIONS AROUND THE EXPERIENCE HE HAS AND THEN TURNS THEM INTO FICTION AND THERE'S A CONSTANT DANCE OF PEOPLE SPENT MANY, MANY THOUSANDS OF HOURS TRYING TO UNPACK WHO IS ERNEST HEMINGWAY AND WHO WAS NICK ADAMS AND WHAT'S REAL AND NOT REAL.

AND HE'S CONSTANTLY TOYING WITH THE AUDIENCE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK, HIS HYPER MASCULINE PERSONA AND BIG GAME HUNTER, FISHERMAN, LADY'S MANKIND OF EXTERIOR PRESENCE I THINK IS MUCH MORE COMPLICATED WHEN YOU GET TO KNOW HIM AND HE'S A MUCH MORE ANXIOUS AND INSECURE, INTERESTED IN SEX, GENDER, ROMANCE IN WAYS THAT I THINK ARE SURPRISING.

WE EXPLORE THAT IN THE FILM.

>> SINCE I ASKED SARAH THE TOUGH QUESTION, LYNN I GUESS I'LL POSE YOU THE SAME QUESTION.

IS THERE SOMETHING THAT YOU LEARNED OF ERNEST HEMINGWAY THAT REALLY SURPRISED YOU THAT YOU WEREN'T EXPECTING?

>> I MEAN, I THINK LIKE SARAH, EVERYTHING -- I DID LEARN QUITE LOT.

I DIDN'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT HIS PERSONAL STORY.

I READ A LOT OF HIS FICTION BEFORE.

ONE OF THE THINGS WAS THAT HIS LOVE OF NATURE.

I KNEW HE LIKED TO HUNT.

I KNEW HE LIKED TO FISH.

AND THOSE THINGS DIDN'T INTEREST ME PERSONALLY AS MUCH.

BUT HIS RELATIONSHIP TO THE NATURAL WORLD WHICH SARAH HAD A WONDERFUL CONVERSATION A FEW WEEKS AGO AND I LEARNED FROM THAT TOO.

BUT HIS RELATIONSHIP TO NATURE AND HOW THAT GROUNDED HIM AND HOW THAT -- HE FOUND SOLACE AND -- I DON'T KNOW -- NOT AN ESCAPE BUT SOME KIND OF DEEPER MEANING FOR SOMEONE WHO WASN'T A TERRIBLY SPIRITUAL PERSON.

THAT WAS NEW.

I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT.

I KNEW A LOT OF THAT BULL FIGHTING AND WORLD WAR I AND KIND OF THE BIG EPIC TOPICS THAT HE HAD WRITTEN ABOUT.

BUT I HAD NOT FULLY UNDERSTOOD HOW CONNECTED HE WAS TO NATURE.

>> THAT'S GREAT ANSWER AND ACTUALLY WHEN LYNN WENT TO MICHIGAN AND IT WAS IN OCTOBER OF -- 6 YEARS AGO, SHE SPENT ME A BUNCH OF IPHONE PICTURES AND EVERY PLACE YOU GO WHEN YOU'RE STUDYING A SUBJECT THAT IS IMPORTANT FEELS HYPER IMPORTANT.

AND I THINK WHEN YOU GO TO THE PLACES OF THE NATURAL WORLD WHERE HEMINGWAY WAS AND THEN WROTE ABOUT, IT IS REALLY MOVING AND PROFOUND.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THAT'S A GREAT TRANSITION INTO THE NEXT CLIP FROM HEMINGWAY JEFF DANIELS, HOW DID YOU DECIDE HIM TO BE THE VOICE OF HEMINGWAY BUT ALSO HIS WRITINGS?

>> WE KNEW WE WANTED TO HAVE ONE ACTOR READ BOTH HEMINGWAY'S LETTERS AND PERSONAL CORRESPONDENCE AND FICTION AND NON-FICTION AND JEFF DANIELS SEEM PERFECT FOR THE PART AND HIS CONNECTION TO MICHIGAN WAS NOT INCIDENTAL BUT NOT AT THE CORE OF OUR ATTRACTION TO HIM.

WE WANTED SOMEONE WHO COULD PLAY HEMINGWAY OLD AND YOUNG WHO COULD BE EVERY POSSIBLE MOOD AND HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH EVERYONE HE'S TALKING TO IN THOSE LETTERS AND THEN READ SOME OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WRITING IN AMERICAN LITERATURE AS YOU JUST HEARD.

JEFF -- YOU KNOW HIM BEING FROM MICHIGAN, I THINK THERE WOULD BE AN INFINITY AND INTEREST AND UNDERSTANDING OF WHERE HEMINGWAY WAS COMING FROM, PERHAPS.

THAT'S ABOUT AS FAR AS I COULD REALLY GO.

I'M NOT SURE HOW DEEPLY JEFF DANIELS FELT ABOUT IT.

BY THE TIME WE FINISHED IT SEEMED CLEAR HEMINGWAY GOTTEN UNDER HIS SKIN AND HE GOT IN HEMINGWAY.

>> LOOKING AT THE PREVIEWS WE LEARN A LOT ABOUT HEMINGWAY AND HIS MARRIAGES.

I WAS WONDERING IF WE COULD TAKE A MOMENT TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE OTHER WOMEN IN HEMINGWAY'S LIFE NAMELY HIS MOTHER AND SISTERS WHO HE SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH DURING HIS TIMES IN NORTHERN MICHIGAN.

WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT THEIR RELATIONSHIPS AND HOW THE RELATIONSHIPS WITH HIS MOTHER AND SISTERS AFFECTED WHO HE WAS?

>> WELL, I THINK A LOT HAS BEEN MADE ABOUT THIS AND HEMINGWAY'S MOTHER'S INFLUENCE ON HIM AND CLEARLY SHE HAD A PROFOUND INFLUENCE ON HIM AS DO ALL MOST MOTHERS ON THEIR CHILDREN.

SHE WAS A TOUGH, SMART, DISCIPLINED PERSON WHO WAS ALSO FROM A TIME THAT HEMINGWAY GREW UP IN A VERY DIFFERENT WORLD AND A VERY DIFFERENT MILIEU FROM HER AND THE OTHER CHILDREN AS WELL RAILED AGAINST SOME OF THE VICTORIAN IDEALS AND RULES THAT WERE SET UPON THEM.

THAT SEEMS VERY, VERY TRUE.

BUT HE HAD -- HE WAS A MAN SURROUNDED BY A LOT OF WOMEN.

HE HAD MANY SISTERS AND HIS MOTHER.

AND HE FELL IN LOVE EARLY IN LIFE AND I THINK WOMEN AFFECTED EVERYTHING HE DID.

HEMINGWAY LOVED TO BE IN LOVE AND ANOTHER PERSON SAID THAT HE WANTED A NEW WOMAN FOR EVERY BOOK OR A NEW MUSE.

SO AS YOU SAID, A LOT HAS BEEN MADE OF THE WIVES.

BUT IT DOES COME FROM AN INFLUENCE OF HIS STRONG MOTHER AND HIS STRONG SISTERS.

HE ULTIMATELY WAS NOT VERY NICE TO HIS MOTHER.

>> AS WE COME TO FIND OUT.

AND WE DID WANT TO MAKE SURE WE GET TO THIS.

WE DID GET ONE QUESTION IN OUR Q&A.

PERSON ASKING ABOUT A CONNECTION BETWEEN ERNEST HEMINGWAY AND FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT NOTING THEY WERE BOTH FROM OAK PARK.

CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAD ANY SORT OF CONNECTIVE TISSUE THERE?

>> WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN OAK PARK AND WE LOOK AT THE HOME IT DOES -- THE ONE THEY BUILT IT DOES LIKE A FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT HOUSE.

SO MAYBE THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF AFFINITY THERE BEING MODERN AND KIND OF FORWARD-THINKING IN THE WAY THAT THEY DESIGNED THEIR HOME.

I DON'T KNOW OF ANY CONNECTION.

FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT LEFT IN A SCANDAL AND HEMINGWAY WAS PRETTY YOUNG.

THAT BEING SAID I THOUGHT A LOT ABOUT WHAT INFLUENCE DID OAK PARK HAVE ON HEMINGWAY'S LIFE AND PERSPECTIVE.

AS SARAH WAS SAYING, HE WAS RUNNING AWAY FROM THE RATHER CONSERVATIVE, SOMEWHAT VICTORIAN VALUES OF HIS PARENTS' GENERATION.

AND REBELLING AGAINST THE RULES THAT THEY SET OUT ABOUT HOW ONE WAS SUPPOSED TO BEHAVE.

A LOT OF HIS WORK WAS SORT OF -- WELL, IT SHOCKED THEM AND THEY DIDN'T LIKE IT, HIS EARLY WORK, BECAUSE SHE FOUND IT WAS IMPROPER AND NOT SOMETHING THAT A GENTLEMAN WOULD WRITE.

HE WANTED THEIR APPROVAL AND IT CAUSED A LOT OF CONFLICT.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT HIS WORK, MICHIGAN IS THE PLACE THAT SEEMS THE CENTER OF HIS LITERARY IMAGINATION AND SHAPED HIS WORLD.

BASS OF THE TIME HE SPENT TIME THERE AND WHAT HE WAS SUPPOSED TO.

IN OAK PARK IT WAS A FAIRLY CONSTRAINED MIDDLE CLASS ENVIRONMENT.

IN MICHIGAN WE SEE HE'S EXPOSE TO DO PEOPLE FROM OTHER CLASSES FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE NATIVE AMERICANS.

HE'S JUST EXPOSE TO DO A WHOLE -- MANY DIFFERENT WORLDS THAT MADE AN IMPRESSION ON HIM.

>> I JUST HAD ONE THOUGHT I WANTED TO ADD WHICH GOES TO WHAT LYNN WAS SAYING ABOUT THE MOTHER.

THE MOST SURPRISING THING I LEARNED WAS BECAUSE HIS MOTHER WAS AN OPERA SINGER AND MUSICIAN, SHE REALLY INSTILLED IN HIM THE SENSE OF PARTICULARLY IN BACH THE IDEA OF REPETITION AND COUNTERPOINT AND SOME OF THE RHYTHMS WHICH DEEPLY INFLUENCED HIS WRITING AND ONE OF THE GREAT SURPRISES OF MAKING THE FILM AND GREAT CHALLENGES OF EDITING TO FIGURE OUT WHICH BACH TO PLAY AND HOW IT WOULD FIT WITH HIS WRITING AND HOW TO DO THAT AND WE HAD AN AMAZING FUN JOURNEY WITH THAT.

THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING INFLUENCE OF HIS MOTHER THAT I HAD NOT KNOWN.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING THAT.

SO IN OUR LAST FEW MINUTES HERE, WE'LL TRY TO GET TO SOME OF THE QUESTIONS WE RECEIVED FROM OUR AUDIENCE.

ONE OF THEM, I KNOW WE MENTIONED THE BIG TWO-HEARTED RIVER.

WILL ANY AREAS IN MICHIGAN'S U.P.

BE FEATURED?

>> SADLY THE ANSWER IS NO.

WE DID GO TO THE U.P., BUT THERE WAS A LIMIT TO HOW MUCH WE COULD COVER.

SO UNFORTUNATELY WE DID NOT PUT HIM THERE IN THE NARRATIVE THAT WE'RE TELLING.

IT'S A STORY THAT COULD BE TOLD.

>> WE HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION.

HOW IS HEMINGWAY STILL RELEVANT TODAY WHEN THERE SEEMS TO BE AN ATTEMPT TO UNDERMINE HIS IMPORTANCE?

HOW WOULD YOU CONSIDER HEMINGWAY STILL BEING RELEVANT TODAY IN 2021?

>> I THINK THAT CUTS TO THE HEART OF SOME OF THE THEMES IN THE FILM.

FROM THE LITTLE THAT WE UNDERSTAND, HEMINGWAY HAS GONE IN AND OUT OF FASHION AT DIFFERENT TIMES IN TERMS OF HOW OFTEN HE'S TAUGHT AND WHETHER HE DESERVES A PLACE IN WHAT WE LOOSELY CALL THE CANNON AND SHOULD PEOPLE READ HIM OR NOT.

THAT SEEMS NOT QUITE GENERATIONAL BUT IT DOES SEEM TO CHANGE OVER TIME.

HAVING SAID THAT, I THINK THE WRITERS THAT WE MET WITH AND WRITERS THAT WE INTERVIEWED WHO ARE OF DIFFERENT AGES, DIFFERENT GENDERS AND FROM AROUND THE WORLD, ALL SAY THAT HE HAS A LASTING INFLUENCE ON THE CRAFT OF WRITING.

AND IS ARGUABLY ONE OF THE GREAT WRITERS OF THE CENTURY AND WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH HIM HIS ART WHETHER HE'S IN FASHION OR NOT.

>> THAT'S AN IMPORTANT POINT.

WE'RE IN A TIME WHERE THERE'S A VERY -- WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GREAT ART AND COMPLICATED ARTISTS IT'S GOING TO BE MORE COMPLICATED.

WHEN WE SAY THAT WE -- THERE ARE SO MANY ARTISTS ABOUT WHICH WE WOULD HAVE QUESTIONS WHETHER THEY WOULD MEET OUR STANDARDS OF WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR AND SO MANY WOULD NOT.

SO WE HOPE THE FILM SORT OF GIVES US ROOM TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND ANOTHER QUESTION THAT WE GOT WHICH YOU REFERENCED TO A LITTLE BIT EARLIER.

ASK ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK THE INFLUENCE OF NATIVE AMERICANS HAD ON HEMINGWAY.

HE WAS EXPOSED TO IT AND HE WROTE ABOUT THEM A LITTLE BIT IN THE NICK ADAMS STORIES.

HOW DO YOU FEEL HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH NATIVE AMERICANS AND INDIGENOUS PEOPLES HAD AN EFFECT ON HIM?

>> WE WOULD REFER TO A SCHOLAR WHO WROTE ABOUT THIS AND I WISH HE WERE TO HERE TO ANSWER IT BECAUSE HE PROVIDES A MUCH MORE COMPLICATED AND INTERESTING AND NUANCED PERSPECTIVE ON HEMINGWAY'S PORTRAYAL OF AND UNDERSTANDING OF THE TRAGEDY THAT HAD BEFALLEN INDIGENOUS PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY AND WHAT THEY HAD TAKEN AWAY AND HOW THEY SUFFERED AND HE HAD THE LIMITATIONS OF HIS TIME AND CLASS AND BACKGROUND, BUT HE WAS NOT UNAWARE OF WHAT HAD BEEN DONE AND DID TRY TO DIFFERENT WAYS TO REPRESENT IT.

BUT THERE'S GOING TO BE MANY POINTS OF VIEW ON THAT FOR SURE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND WE'RE JUST ABOUT OUT OF TIME HERE.

SO JUST ONE LAST QUESTION THAT I WANTED TO ASK.

AFTER GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS OF PUTTING THIS FILM TOGETHER, A ASSUMPTIONS YOU HAD ABOUT HEMINGWAY.

WERE THEY CONFIRMED AND HOW DID YOUR OPINION CHANGE FROM THE BEGINNING OF PRODUCTION UP UNTIL NOW?

>> WELL THAT'S A VERY BIG QUESTION THAT GOES TO THE HEART OF THE JOURNEY OF BOTH MAKING AND I THINK WATCHING THE FILM.

I THINK FOR SOMEBODY WHO IS AS COMPLICATED -- A WORD WE USE ALL TIME -- BUT HE WAS TRULY COMPLICATED.

AND DIFFICULT AND OFTEN ACTUALLY PRETTY UNLIKABLE AS A HUMAN BEING.

HIS WRITING ENDURES FOR I THINK A LOT OF US WHO WORKED ON THE FILM, BUT ALSO I SORT OF THOUGHT OF HEMINGWAY AS A BRAWNY DRUNKER WHO I KNEW HE HAD TAKEN HIS OWN LIFE, BUT I THINK BY THE TIME THAT HAPPENS IN THE FILM AND PEOPLE KNOW HOW IT ENDS, IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HEMINGWAY, IT'S VERY SAD AND TRAGIC.

BECAUSE HE DESTROYED HIMSELF AND SUFFERED FROM DEPRESSION AND ANXIETY AND ALL KINDS OF THINGS, AND BEING AS FAMOUS AS HE WAS, MAYBE -- AND THE PERSON THAT HE WAS DIDN'T GET THE HELP THAT HE COULD HAVE HAD.

AND SO, WHAT YOU MIGHT BE AMBIVALENT YOU'RE SAD WHEN HE DIES BECAUSE IT'S TRAGIC.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND WE JUST GOT ONE LAST QUESTION, BUT I'M GUESSING YOU'LL BE ABLE TO ANSWER THIS QUICK.

DO YOU HAVE A FAVORITE NOVEL OR STORY?

LYNN, WE'LL START WITH YOU.

>> NOT DIFFICULT ACTUALLY.

SURPRISINGLY MAYBE I START THE PROJECT BEING PRETTY MUCH SURE FAREWELL TO ARMS AND AT THE END I FEEL THE SAME WAY.

I HAVE A MUCH DEEPER APPRECIATION FOR THE WORK AND WHAT WENT INTO IT AND FOR THE LAYERS WITHIN IT OF THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF STORIES HE'S TRYING TO TELL AND WHAT HE'S AFTER THERE.

ATE THE POETRY AND THE MUSICALITY OF THE LANGUAGE AND COMBINATION OF THAT AND PORTRAYAL OF WAR AND WHAT IT'S REALLY LIKE AND HOW TERRIBLE IT IS AND CRITIQUE OF THAT KIND OF HYPER MASCULINE WAR MONGERING AND ALL THE HORRORS OF IT AND WITH A LOVE STORY AND POETRY OF THE LANGUAGE STANDS THE TEST OF TIME FOR ME.

>> SARAH, FOR YOU?

>> WE'RE VERY BORING BECAUSE WE BOTH ALWAYS ANSWER THIS THE SAME WAY AND SAY THAT FAREWELL TO ARMS IS OUR FAVORITE NOVEL AND THAT WAS THE SAME THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS OF MAKING THE FILM.

I THINK WE READ IT A NUMBER OF TIMES WHILE MAKING THE FILM.

I HAD NOT READ THE SHORT STORIES BEFORE WE STARTED AND ALL THE WRITERS AND BIOGRAPHERS SAID YOU HAVE TO FOCUS ON THE SHORT STORIES AND THEY'RE THE MOST IMPORTANT.

AND I HAD NOT READ THEM AND I CONTINUE TO READ THEM AND FIND INTERESTING THINGS EVEN IN A THREE PAGE STORY NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I READ IT.

SO I'M -- I WOULD SAY FAREWELL TO ARMS AND THE SHORT STORIES FOR ME.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WELL, WE'VE BEEN SPEAKING -- >> I WILL JUST SAY THAT AS A RESULT OF THE FILM, THERE IS A NEW BOOK OF SHORT STORIES AND BEAUTIFUL ESSAY WHICH I SPOKE ABOUT.

IT'S CALLED THE HEMINGWAY STORIES AND WE HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT.

>> I'M SURE MANY OF OUR VIEWERS WILL LOOK INTO THAT.

LYNNE AND SARAH BOTSTEIN I WANT TO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY AND TALK ABOUT ALL THINGS HEMINGWAY AND HEMINGWAY IN MICHIGAN.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

IT'S REALLY FUN AND THANK YOU TO MICHIGAN.

>> YES, THANK YOU SO MUCH AND THANK YOU TO THE CLARKE LIBRARY.

>> WE DEFINITELY WANT TO THANK ALL OF YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING AND I WANT TO SEND A SINCERE THANKS TO FRANK BOWLES OF THE CLARKE HISTORICAL LIBRARY AND MICHAEL FOR JOINING US AS WELL.

ONE THING WE WANT TO MENTION BEFORE WE CLOSE, WE WOULD LOVE TO GET YOUR AUDIENCE FEEDBACK ON EVENT TONIGHT.

WE ARE GOING TO PUT A LINK TO A SURVEY THAT IS GOING TO BE COPY AND PASTED INTO THE CHAT BOX.

SO PLEASE IF YOU CAN TAKE A FEW MOMENTS AND GIVE US A LITTLE BIT OF FEEDBACK AND WE'D LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU.

WE ALSO HAVE A FEW ANNOUNCEMENTS COMING UP FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT ARE WANT TO KNOW ABOUT MORE HEMINGWAY HAPPENINGS HAPPENING ACROSS NORTHERN MICHIGAN.

AS PART OF A YEAR LONG HEMINGWAY HOMECOMING CELEBRATION, THE VILLAGE IS HOSTING A 7 WEEK VIRTUAL SERIES.

IT KICKS OFF TOMORROW THURSDAY APRIL 1ST AND RUNS THROUGH MID MAY AND A HEMINGWAY BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION IS PLANNED FOR JULY 21ST, THAT'S A HIS BIRTHDAY.

WITH A HANDFUL OF FAMILY FRIENDLY EVENTS AND THEN LABOR DAY WEEKEND WILL BE THE PRIMARY HOMECOMING FEATURING THE UNVEILING OF HISTORICAL INSTALLATIONS IN DOWNTOWN FOCUSSED ON HEMINGWAY AND OTHER ASPECTS OF HIS DEVELOPMENT AND GROWTH.

YOU OF COURSE WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ALL TUNE IN MONDAY, APRIL 5TH AT 8:00 P.M. FOR THE PREMIERE OF "HEMINGWAY" ON PBS.

I THINK THAT'S ALL WE HAVE.

FROM -- ALSO THERE WILL BE AN ARCHIVE ON WCMU.ORG/HEMINGWAY.

SOME OF THE QUESTIONS WE'LL THROW THOSE UP ON THE WEBSITE AS WELL.

THAT WRAPS THINGS UP FOR US.

FROM EVERYONE HERE AT WCMU PUBLIC MEDIA THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US FOR "HEMINGWAY IN MICHIGAN."

GOOD NIGHT.