- Welcome back to Family Health Matters.

I'm Shelley Irwin with me today, Dr. Amanda Conkling from BluePearl, Dr. David Chase, Family Friends Vet, and Dr. Laurie Brush, Heaven at Home Pet Hospice.

I only get the best.

Thank you for sharing your talents with us here.

Dr. Chase, how do you spend your day?

- So, I thankfully I get to do a lot of things.

So Family Friends has both general practicing and urgent care.

So I get to see everything from routine visits to more urgent medical needs.

And then another kind of unique niche that we do is canine reproduction.

So then we get to work with responsible breeders to ensure health of puppies.

And also a benefit is I get to work and see a lot of puppies too.

So, that keeps the day interesting.

- Appreciate that.

And thanks for saying the word responsible is key.

Do you have a dog?

- I do.

So I have three Rhodesian Ridgebacks.

- Nice.

You are credible.

Dr. Conkling, your story please.

- So I am a little different.

I'm a veterinary surgeon, so I have five additional years of training beyond vet school.

And so my day consists of surgical patients.

So some days are in consult appointments, doing exams, diagnostics, things like that.

And then other days, Mondays and Wednesdays, I'm typically in the OR doing surgical procedures.

And that's a range of orthopedic procedures, fractures, things of that nature.

A lot of soft tissue procedures, so removing liver masses, spleens, lung tumors, things like that.

And then I also do a lot of oncology and wound reconstruction, wound management, things of that nature, so.

And emergencies.

- Keep those hands safe.

Do you have dogs at home?

- I do, two rescue mutts.

- Nice.

- One little fluffy one and one that was found on the streets of Grand Rapids about a year ago.

- Thank you for that.

Dr. Brush, your story, please.

- I am the founder of Heaven at Home Pet Hospice.

And pet hospice is a newer field of veterinary medicine.

It's been around for 10, 15 years now, and it's growing rapidly.

We provide peaceful passings for pets in their home environment where they're most comfortable.

So we try and make it a stress-free, pain-free experience for the pets, and a private experience for the family to have where they can be most comfortable.

So I'm doing house calls, that's what I do.

I'm driving to where our clients are and we try and go where they need us, when they need us.

- Dr. Chase, how smart are dogs?

- So dogs are really smart and they can be bred for all certain reasons too.

So, I think it's something where it's always fascinating to find out different jobs that service dogs have.

And they can, it could be anywhere from sniffing out glucose changes in their humans to search and rescue and things.

So I think it's something where, and that's just what we know that they can do.

There's probably a lot more to that, that even beyond that.

- And does a breed matter in smartness?

I'm digging deep here.

- I would say yes.

I would say yes.

You know, we all do what we call breed profiling, right?

So for example, if we have a lab, a lot of them are smart, yes.

A lot of them are also kind of very goofy natured and they haven't almost been able to reach their full potential.

'Cause that's our, a lot of our responsibility as owners.

Certain breeds we think of as being a bit more aggressive or intense.

You know, for example, Jack Russell Terriers, they can often be very smart, but they are often very purpose-driven hunting dogs, burrowing dogs, things of that nature.

So they are often very smart, but not all, just like people.

- So a lot of this is gonna be like people, isn't it?

Dr. Brush, what about age and dog behavior?

Where would you take that question?

- Because dogs are so smart, they know how to manage their own symptoms and issues, and it's up to us, who live with them and see them daily, to interpret what's going on.

And very often as our pets are aging, we can miss some of those signs they give us.

Some might just call it old age.

Joey doesn't come to the door anymore to greet me, or he won't jump up on the sofa with me, or she's not wanting to eat anymore.

While it might be that your pet is, your dog is standing on a slippery surface and can't stand while their feet go out from under them while they're trying to eat, or they may need a softer surface to lay down on.

Many, many pets have arthritis and if they're feeling arthritic, if it hurts 'em to jump up on something as they've always done, they might need some pain medication to help with that arthritis, but them not wanting to come out and greet you could be because there's a very slippery linoleum floor and they're prone to falling down and they don't want that to happen.

It hurts.

So they take care of themselves and it's up to us to interpret what's going on.

If they're getting a little grouchy and snappy with you, maybe something hurts.

That's the time to take them into your veterinarian and start figuring out what's changing, what's going on.

- Amanda, are dog's trainable?

- Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely.

And it, a lot of what Laurie just said, applies to training as well.

You know, us being able to communicate with them and interpret their movements, their tail posture, their ear posture, their eyes, watching their pupils, if we can see the whites of their eyes.

So it's a lot of owners and veterinarians learning how to best train a dog.

Not all dogs, just like kids again, not all dogs learn in the same manner.

So being able to communicate with them, learn what type of training methods are gonna work best, what each dog needs.

But yeah, I would say 99.9% of dogs are trainable.

- Yes.

And David, a question for those who are in the rescue world, oftentimes we don't know of their history prior.

How important is the training of a dog early on?

- Yeah, so I would say dogs, they're gonna, they're gonna look to us for training.

So, a lot of that is gonna come from their past experiences.

So, especially with our rescue pets, we don't always know what they have experienced and what kind of negative behaviors they could have learned or positive behaviors they could have learned.

And a lot of it is just trying to teach them different ways and also learn from them.

And I think that's also where we can kind of look back to the breeds and thinking about where, what they were bred to do can help us learn about, you know, what do they have kind of hardwired into their system and sort of reinforce that instead of try to eliminate that.

- Hmm.

- Can I add on to that?

- You sure can.

- One of the things that a good, good thing you can teach your dog while he is still, he or she is still young, is how to use a ramp.

If you have a big dog, you're not gonna be able to pick up.

Start thinking about when they're 10, 15 years old and you wanna get 'em into the car.

They're not gonna suddenly start going up a ramp because you've decided they need it now.

You should train them to do that while they're young, when it's not scary, when it's a practical thing.

Get 'em really comfortable doing all these different things and you will have better luck helping them age gracefully.

- Hmm.

And back to your niche, the behavior of a dog and of course you too, Dr. Chase, entering an unfamiliar area, say for a need of a surgery or a vet check, obviously the dog behavior changes.

How do we best work through that?

- Yeah, it changes a lot when they get in that stressful environment.

You know, I frequently see patients that have a history of limping.

They get into the clinic, they get a big adrenaline rush, they're nervous, they're limping is completely gone, right?

So communicating with the owner as far as getting more information, what they're doing at home.

As far as their behavior in the clinic, you know, watching that pet, if it's a pet that might be protective of their owner, trying to get them away from the owner.

So we can do a gate assessment and then an exam.

Sometimes we'll even take the pet outside where they might be a little more comfortable.

I try to do, for example, my orthopedic exams when they're upright and standing, we're not getting them down into an uncomfortable laying position.

Watching for very, very subtle signs that they're anxious, they're discomfort, they're uncomfortable.

And a lot of that comes with experience and again, communicating with the owners at the time of the visit and even beforehand, you know.

So working, you know, Dr. Chase and myself working together, if he's gonna refer me a case and he knows that that pet is anxious in a veterinary clinic, he can prescribe anti-anxiety medications.

So when the pet comes to see me, we've kind of eliminated a little bit of that anxiety and helped them with that visit and that exam.

- Yes.

Expand on that.

How do you get through an examination with the shaky little chihuahua?

- Yeah, no, I agree.

(all laughing) And I also, you know, being on the side where we see with urgent care, a lot of sudden limping and lamenesses, one thing that can be really helpful is when owners take videos and then show those to us, because then that way they can show exactly the behavior.

Because I have, I've also seen animals with broken bones that are walking around the exam room, like nothing's wrong because of all the adrenaline from, and sometimes it's even just the car ride too, getting here could be what's causing a lot of stress.

So, I think it's important to really, and that's why a lot of times I'll start my visit just kind of, you know, with making good eye contact with the patient and just trying to make sure they feel nice and comfortable and then kind of working slowly from there so that way it's as enjoyable as possible for the patient too.

- And remind us, I guess a question for all three of you, the human often can get in the way, so I'll start with you.

I mean, if you've got someone that you know, don't hurt my little Fido, when you might have to with the shot.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

So I always say I try to make sure that we can be the bad guy.

So, when we are gonna do something like a shot, I'll have our technicians hold the animal and then that's usually a time where I'll maybe get a nice treat or something and then give that to the owner to give to the pet so it can provide that nice distraction.

But then also then they just get to be the treat supply and not the one who did something mean to them.

- [Amanda] Cheese whiz and peanut butter.

- Yeah.

- Two best friends.

- That's true.

I thought you were gonna feed the human that.

Maybe that's a... Oh, Dr. Brush, let's talk about elephant in the room, pain in our senior dogs.

Do they experience it?

- Oh, most definitely.

Most definitely.

And it's one of those things like where I'll have someone say, "Well, my dog's not in pain.

He just limps."

- Very common.

- That's a very, you know, think about when you are limping, if something hurts, you're, it's because it hurts that they're limping.

So don't assume that because they're not saying, "Ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch."

All the time that they're not in pain.

And you can actually refer to pain scales.

You can look at, there's even, I won't mention the cat part if we don't want to, but there's... - No, no, cats are not allowed in this conversation.

(all laughing) - Their expressions on their face, the way they hold their (indistinct), there's many signs of pain that we can look at.

If they don't wanna walk on the floor, if it hurts to stand up, we can do many things to change that.

And if we're not sure, it's not gonna hurt to do a trial of pain medication.

It's one of the advantages if we have, when we go to see them at home, they're not doing that masking, they're not having the adrenaline rush.

It's usually a calmer environment and we can show the owner what to look for and what changes they can make in their house to help their pet be more comfortable.

And pain is a part of aging.

We're all gonna experience it as we age, but we don't need it to be a severe, debilitating thing or something that's causing them to snap at their people because everything hurts.

- I would add too, you know, pain management, I'm right with Dr. Brush.

Pain management is so, so key.

I have a lot of discussions with, you know, geriatric patients, orthopedic patients that are dealing with very severe arthritis and a lot of discomfort.

And if we can keep them comfortable, I kind of think of that as the linchpin, right?

If we have a comfortable pet, they are more inclined to interact with their owners, more inclined to be active then they can burn calories, they can maintain their muscle mass, they're gonna keep those joints moving and overall have a better quality of life.

Versus if we're uncomfortable, now we're more sedentary, we're not burning calories, we're gaining weight, we're losing muscle, and we'll get into this very downward negative spiral.

So comfort measures are super important for all of our patients.

- Right.

Let's talk on specific situations.

Bringing home a baby with existing animals.

- Yeah.

- How does that work?

- Yeah, so thankfully, I recently got to bring home a really sweet baby.

And so one of the big things that we focused on was prior to was trying to do a lot of changes ahead of time.

So, for example, even just moving furniture around can be stressful for your pets.

So, getting the baby room set up and the, and the toys and things all out ahead of time.

- [Shelley] They know that, they know something's going on, right?

- Right.

Right.

So, getting that, that way they don't have everything stressful changing at once.

We can kind of make those changes sooner.

Otherwise, you know, different things with any behaviors, we want our pets to learn ahead of time.

So for example, if we allow our dogs on our couch and bed, of course, but if that was something that we were gonna plan on changing with bringing the baby in, then that would be important to focus on changing that behavior prior to the baby coming home.

Not just like a cold turkey, "Oh, baby's here, so now you can't do these things you like anymore."

So focusing on, on things like that or, you know, making sure we're not jumping on us when we walk in the door.

Those are some really important behaviors to work on prior to the baby coming home.

- Hmm.

Dr. Conklin, you mentioned anti-anxiety drugs.

What about separation anxiety?

- So we see a lot of separation anxiety in dogs.

And I think for a lot of these topics and these questions, anticipation is key, right?

So like Dr. Brush said, if a dog's aging, as they're aging, anticipate they may need a ramp, train 'em for the ramp early, anticipate when we bring the baby home that there's gonna be changes.

So make those adjustments early.

Same thing with separation anxiety, you know, anticipate, try as much as possible if we get a new dog, to anticipate, well that might be a problem if we have a family member working from home 24/7 and that's gonna change in a couple months.

You know, try to eliminate those triggers as far as that routine of picking up keys, getting your coat, letting the dog pick up on all those signals that someone's leaving the house.

Mix up your behaviors, get them used to longer and longer periods of time.

There's behaviorists, there's trainers that can be very helpful.

And then medications, you know, I like to think of medications as kind of a last resort on a regular basis.

A lot of it can be focused on training the dog to have a place that's comfortable to them, a place where they can go and relax and not be stressed out.

- Hmm.

Dr. Brush, it's time for show and tell.

We wanna talk adaptable, I guess, ways to make our senior pets comfortable.

Bring up, I don't know if... - This is Walter, we call him Walter.

Walter goes with us to a lot of events.

Walter is wearing an assistive device here that is really handy in our senior pets.

This one's called a "Help 'Em Up" harness.

There are many different types of devices that you can find and they can be very effective, because we like this one, because a couple of our staff members have used them on their senior pets where they've worn them the majority of the time.

And you have two different handles to help if the pet is needing a lot of extra support.

If they can walk with just this on, great.

If they're trying to squat and you need to help support the back end, you've got that going on too.

And you just have to check regularly that they're not getting sores or anything from that.

Walter really likes his harness, keeps him very comfortable.

- I recommend them every day.

- Other things.

- Yes.

- And we also have, we recommend 'em and we carry them and we can loan them out to people if they're only gonna need 'em for a short time.

We have a stock of 'em that we can loan out.

- [Shelley] Put that up here.

Yes.

- So this is, this is not the side of this mat that we would use.

This is one of the things we recommend when pets are having trouble with slippery floors and it can be a wooden floor.

The other thing to think about, if your dog is having trouble walking on a hard surface is maybe he needs a nail trim.

Because their nails get too long.

You think they're gonna grab on.

Well it just makes 'em slide more.

It's a slippery point.

This mat gives them something to grab onto, but this is not the side we use.

This is like an office workspace floor mat, kids playroom floor mat.

It has this nice thick cushion and this is the side you turn down so you can use this dark colored area.

I had my entire living and kitchen area covered with these for about six months for my last old dog.

And this can buy extra time for them.

It gives them something soft to lay on if they do fall down and their nails can grip on this.

There's other things you can use.

We have resources on our website, toe grips, foot pads.

There's amazing resources now for assistive devices, just like in old people.

- I was gonna say that.

(Laurie laughing) Dr. Chase, let's have some fun here.

Do you know why dogs wag their tails?

- Yeah, so dogs wag their tails for all sorts of reasons.

And I, and it is something that's important to pay attention to because they're not always good reasons.

So, in, and of course we like to associate dogs wagging their tails as they're happy and excited, which is oftentimes why they're gonna be wagging their tail.

One of the things you're gonna notice when they're doing that though, is it's a high amplitude tail wag.

So, the tail's gonna be going side to side.

If there's a wall nearby or your legs nearby, it's probably gonna hit you.

But there's also a short amplitude tail wag.

And that's something that we can see in dogs that are fearful or stressed or anxious.

They can have a really small tail wag that's just going side to side rapidly.

So that can be something that's important to pick up on because if we have a dog that's doing that, but we look at that as a sign of that they're happy, 'cause as, 'cause they're wagging their tail then that, we could be put in a dangerous situation.

- Hmm.

All right.

I'm gonna ask you Dr. Conkling, why do dogs sniff other dogs?

- Communication.

They have extremely sensitive sense of smell.

They can smell a single molecule and they have, they have an organ that directly transmits that to their brain.

So it's all about communication.

That's how they're getting so much information about their environment, other animals, dogs, cats, squirrels, chipmunks, you name it.

Everything in their environment, they're getting so much information through that nose.

It's amazing, their sense of smell compared to ours.

- So let 'em sniff.

- Let 'em sniff.

- Can I talk about that being a good reason why helping your pet to pass at home is beneficial to other pets or giving them an opportunity to sniff that other pet so that they don't think they went out the door and disappeared and never came home.

Their noses know what's going on.

So if the pet is there and able to sniff the other pet, they can recognize when they've passed.

Their noses know what's going on.

Very often we've found other family pets already are aware that the their buddy is sick, they'll come lay with them, they'll groom them, they'll, and other times there's distancing.

It can really vary just like in people, everybody deals with grief and change differently, but it really helps pets to know what's happening.

- And what is the treatment for a pet passing and life going on for those leftover, you know, special pets at home?

- Sometimes it's just a lot of TLC, you know, you gotta do the tender loving care thing and maybe bring other family member pets, take 'em to dog parks, get them exposure to other pets.

I usually encourage people not to dash out and get another pet family member right away to let your heart heal.

Give it a little time and your pets need that too.

They'll grieve differently.

Just like people grieve differently.

A pet is gonna grieve differently.

One might act like nothing ever happened, another one might stop eating for a few days, be really wanting to be close to their people and it's varied, but they'll get through it.

- Yep.

Like the humans.

- Uh-huh.

- Dr. Chase, you mentioned your expertise in reproduction.

What about the human behavior of a female in heat at all?

- Yeah, so that really changes a lot of things and that's one thing I like to try to talk to owners about during our first puppy visits, if we're planning on having our dog go through heat cycles is we'll start to talk about those changes, because they can happen at any time, really.

There's, you know, there's a general part in their life when we should expect it, but it can still be any time.

But when they are, when we do have dogs going into heat, we're gonna see changes of the female, which can range anywhere from, you know, one week being extra lovey to the other week, not so much.

And, but otherwise, female dogs, their body goes through a full pregnancy whether they were bred or not.

So, other things we can see are, they'll act differently during those two months that they would've been pregnant if they were bred.

And even we've seen dogs that when they get to what would've been their due date, they will do some nesting and they can even, you know, take little stuffed animals and kind of cuddle with them and things.

So, it's really, really cool things we can see with our dogs, but paying attention to that and, you know, making sure that we're supporting them.

And then otherwise on the other side of it, just keeping our male dogs away and keeping them safe because a lot of times, even if our male dogs are neutered, they're gonna be really interested in the female and she may not be quite as interested.

So just avoiding situations like that is really important too.

- You can't fight instinct.

- Right, right.

- Goodness gracious.

- Hormones.

- Yes.

Dr. Conkling, you brought a rescue dog into your home.

How did you work with that behavior with your other dog and your family?

- Yeah, so I'm a big proponent of rescues.

That is literally all the dogs I've had throughout my life and, you know, if it's, you know, myself, a person that's experienced with dogs, I'm very comfortable kind of reading a dog's behavior early on.

My most recent rescue, I got her about 11 months ago now, she was bald, emaciated, really disgusting little critter, but very, very gentle, very sweet natured.

And I could see that right outta the gate with her.

But people going to a rescue, you know, Humane Society, et cetera, they do need to rely a lot on the staff there to help them find a good dog that's gonna be a good fit.

So a sedentary elderly person is not gonna want to rescue a two or two-year-old border Collie for example.

You know, they're gonna want maybe a more geriatric, little bit more sedentary pet that's gonna fit with their lifestyle.

But I'm a big proponent of rescuing.

There's a lot of dogs out there that are just amazing matches for families and can be a really good family member.

- Yes.

What else is important that we know as we start to wind down Dr. Brush?

- I think people might be interested to know that there is something called the "Dog Aging Project".

It's actually the National Institute of Health is one of the founders.

It's a grant funded program.

There are thousands of dogs enrolled.

Your listeners can enroll their pet in some of the studies they're doing and it's amazing what's being learned.

It's a great website to just go check out and participate in because dogs age so much quicker than the humans that being able to do that, to gain that information in a much shorter time period on what happens with the aging process is really valuable.

But it's about expanding their health span, making their lifespan longer, not just longer, but a healthy lifespan.

- How do we find out more about your services, in particular?

- You can look at our website, "pethospicevet.com".

And we have a blog that addresses a lot of these topics we've covered today that's under our resources section and the pain scales, the quality of life scales, the "how do you know when it's time" resources are pretty valuable to most of our clients.

- Great, thank you for what you do.

Dr. Conkling, what do you leave us with when it comes to the mind of a dog?

- So utilizing your veterinarians and erring on the side of caution with dogs, right?

So if you're not sure how your dog is gonna behave at a dog park, don't just go in and let 'em off leash, right?

Take nice and slow.

If you're not sure how your dog is gonna do if you take them out to a restaurant or 4th of July, always err on the side of caution to try and keep them safe, right?

You don't want them to get into a dog fight situation.

You don't wanna take your dog for an off-leash hike, not knowing how they're gonna behave and have them either get into a fight or get hit by a car or something like that.

So we wanna try and have a great quality of life for our pets and give them all these fun experiences, but it has to come and in baby steps, erring on the side of caution, working with them to get them comfortable in a lot of those potentially new situations.

- Hmm, yep.

Even a visitor in the yard.

Your services we find where?

- "bluepearlvet.com" and we're specialty, so surgery, internal medicine, oncology, ophthalmology, neurology services, are all available along with emergency services right here in Grand Rapids.

- As a 6-year-old, did you practice surgery on your stuffed animal?

- I wanted to work with apes.

(Laurie laughing) Vet school was a complete right angle for me.

- Still can.

- But I love it.

- Still can.

Thank you for your services.

Dr. Chase, end us with good words.

- Yeah, so I would say really pay attention to your pets.

So, if they are, you know, having accidents in the house or they're, you know, distancing themselves or growling a little bit more, any changes that you're noticing.

A lot of times those could be signs of medical problems.

So, they could have arthritis pain or they could have bladder infection or different things that, you know, it's important we address those sooner than later so that way they don't build up any behaviors that then become a learned behavior after the underlying cause has been treated.

But, so just really, really paying attention to our pets and a lot of times they're trying to communicate with us.

- 'Cause they're part of the family.

- Yeah.

- Right?

- Absolutely.

- How do we find out about you and yours?

- Yeah, so I, at Family Friends Vet Hospital, we are on 28th Street in Cascade area of Grand Rapids.

We have a website, "familyfriendsvet.com" and otherwise and on, we're on Facebook as well and always seeing new patients and new clients.

And then otherwise we have urgent care seven days a week too for the urgent needs.

- Ask for Dr. Chase.

- Yeah.

- Thank you all.

Take care.

And hello to your dogs from us.

Take care to you and as always, thanks to you for watching.

Enjoy your day.