Good evening.

>> Thank you so much for watching HealthLine here on PBS Fort Wayne, I'm your host Mark Evans tonight a subject that we really need to talk about.

>> We need to evaluate for ourselves and for other people and it's just part of life.

>> So hang with us and you'll find out what I'm talking about.

Our subject this evening is leading healthy and meaningful lives and we have Dr. Courtney Washington, a clinical psychologist on hand and thank you so much for coming back and being on the show.

>> Thank you for having me, Mark.

Absolutely.

We're going to talk about some things that matter a lot to people and whether they realize it or not.

>> And you also by the way, Doctor Washington, you specialize in sexual health and healthy relationships and that's something we'll talk about in just a bit.

>> But first of all, I want to go ahead and mention the fact that we have a phone number to call and we'll take your calls at any time during this 30 minute program.

We of course we're public television.

We won't run any commercials so it's seamless all the way through.

The number is on your screen 866- nine six what is that (969).

I can't read to seven to zero.

>> You got the number a million times but I have committed to memory but it's right there on your screen if you need it and please call in at any time.

So let's go ahead and begin Dr. Washington with the understanding of the importance of healthy, meaningful relationship to being a fulfilled human being.

>> Why is that so important?

Absolutely it's a big question mark and something that researchers have been studying for over 50 years in the field of psychology.

>> The clinical term for happiness is subjective well-being.

And so when you're reading on the research that's what you'll see.

>> And they've done research not only here in the United States but across the globe with all kinds of different people, different socioeconomic status, racial background, economics, all of those things.

>> And what they find consistently regardless of culture is that there are three things that are key to having a meaningful and fulfilled life .

Those three things are pursuits for personal growth, having healthy meaningful relationships with other people who you care about and giving back to our communities in some ways that help us feel value.

>> OK, I did see that in some of the notes that you sent to me the giving back to our community that you know we're talking about some in some ways intimacy and so forth.

But what is it about doing something for your community?

>> What what gives you that good feeling?

Yeah, absolutely.

That's a great question.

It really is about stepping outside of yourself right as human beings we can be a little bit self-absorbed.

Right.

We think people are always thinking about us, looking at us, talking about us.

Right.

And that can sometimes distract us from the things that really matter.

So coming outside of ourselves and connecting with other people or things that are bigger than us like community connections really bring in that meaningful connection to others.

>> OK, so and then of course the meaningful relationships and we're not just talking about family, we're not talking about husband wife.

We're talking about relations and relationships in general.

Our friends people we work with is that correct?

>> That's absolutely correct.

Right.

Everyone that we interact with is engaged with us in a type of relationship.

>> Right.

You have surface level relationship.

So say the clerk at the grocery store that always checks you out that you know their name and you engage with at a very surface level.

Then you have family relationships that know you significantly more intimately and deeply and then your partnerships which hopefully they know you the best and the most deepest or your friendships as well and all of our relationships should contain multiple factors in order to have them feel meaningful and productive.

>> Well, and how important is it to have all of these relationship on a I don't know on a decent level?

>> I mean I can well, just through my experience if you've got if you're mad at someone and you carry that around with you, that's going to affect you in more ways than you can even realize.

>> Yes, absolutely.

And we never want to just get try and get everything from one person.

Right.

We need a community of people surrounding us and different people in our lives.

Different types of relationships meet different needs and that's OK. You need that balance to have the colleague at work that you joke with and laugh with and that is a fun loving kind of relationship versus like my best friend of twenty five years that I process like the really heavy deep emotions with right.

I can't engage in the way that I do with my best friend with everyone that I do in the world because a people might think I'm really weird.

>> Oh that's OK but B it's tiring to be intimately and meaningfully connected to people.

>> Yeah I would imagine so.

Now what about the people who you know and I've even gone through the streets of this going through isolation of course you know covid and we'll talk about that a little later but that just about did me in all that isolation.

>> But there are people who just prefer and I don't know if it's because of some things that have happened in their lives probably so but prefer not to connect with people.

>> They prefer to keep their door closed if they're standing out in their yard.

>> You happen to drive by and wave at them even though you know them they don't even wave back what what is going to happen or what what's the probability of bad things happening to that person down the road?

I mean not not bad things.

You know, as far as people doing mean things to them but what's it going to do to themselves?

Yeah.

And their mental health and they will because they're just staying isolated and they're not connecting what happens?

>> Well, I think that's a big question.

Right.

And the best answer in psychology is always it depends.

However, we can look at kind of two sides of that coin.

So the questions that I would be curious as a psychologist and talking with that person is are they isolating themselves because they're fearful of intimacy?

They're afraid to get close to people.

>> They're concerned about being hurt emotionally in some way.

They feel like they can't trust people.

>> Those are things that we can work on in relationships right to improve.

Yeah.

Versus someone we might consider more traditionally introverted.

Right.

So everyone's heard of extroverts and introverts.

There's a lot of misunderstanding around that.

Right.

Extroverts love to be with people.

Introverts love to be alone.

>> It's really about where you collect your energy from so introverts recharge their batteries and collect their energy from their time alone in their time and solace where extroverts get from other people and socializing.

>> Yeah.

So if you're isolating because you're fearful of relationships, you're afraid you're going to be hurt.

That's something to be a little bit concerned about.

That's something that will take a toll on your mental wellness if you are isolated because you're an introverted person and you need to recharge your batteries that's kind of a different story as with everything we talk about balance, right?

>> So we never most things in life fall on some kind of a spectrum.

It's never really good to be on the far ends of anything.

We want to try and be somewhere in the middle and kind of move up and down.

So the same would be true for isolation.

>> I work with a gentleman in my other profession.

A lot of our viewers know that I actually not only a broadcaster but I work in the funeral field as well.

I'm a funeral directors assistant and I work with a gentleman who's my peer and he's about twelve years older than me and that man can run circles around me.

He is witty.

He has always a joke his high spirited you'd never know that the man is pushing eighty years old and I said Nanny I said What is your secret because I want to know and he says Mark the thing is yeah anybody can go out and mow the lawn they can get on their bike and ride a bike they can run around parking lots like I do parking cars for procession's he says.

But the main thing the main key is to stay engaged with people and he's the he's the guy who's talking to the people coming up.

>> I mean he's just and he's always got a joke lined up and he loves it and he says that's what keeps me going when I stop doing that my body will probably just shut down and there's got to be some truth to that.

>> He's a wise man.

Absolutely.

The interaction and that connection to other people is again what brings meaning to our lives.

>> I imagine he gets some type of emotional fulfillment out of those connections.

Oh yeah.

And plus his job what he does exactly right and those things make us feel like we're contributing in some kind of meaningful way which then makes life bigger than just us and whatever little things we're stressed or worried about might not seem like they're such big problems anymore.

>> Exactly.

Get it off your chest, talk about it and then the other people say hey, you know what sounds like a big deal to you but really in the big full spectrum of things that's something that can be managed right.

>> So it is good to talk to people and get input.

>> So definitely let's talk about the technology of today and we're talking about of course radio, television, social media.

>> How is that affecting us in making good decisions in relationships and even furthering our relationships?

>> Yeah, absolutely.

So the media that we consume gives us a lot of messages about what's OK and what's not OK, what's right and wrong, which I really try and stay away from those terms when we talk about relationship because each person gets to define that for themselves.

>> Yeah, but those messages we internal eyes and pick up on whether or not we're consciously aware of it and thinking about oh I watch this movie and so now I'm going to act like this character right.

>> So we internalize those things.

>> There's a lot of buzz right now about social media and obviously we don't have a whole picture of how it's impacting us as the human species.

>> What we can say is that there are perks to it.

>> Right.

You can connect with people across the world that you didn't have connection to.

We are being exposed to things and being able to talk about things that you typically don't get exposed to, particularly if you live in smaller communities .

>> With that being said, some of those messages aren't necessarily helpful or productive and without having people that kind of talk about and reinforce those messages or make sense of those messages, we can get caught in kind of an echo chamber because the hard thing with social media is it really feeds us through the algorithms information that supports our belief structure supports our biases and therefore creates that echo chamber so we don't really hear are the other perspectives.

Yeah, and I think that it's important especially these days to keep a healthy mind is to keep an open mind when you say absolutely you don't have to go along with everything but there are so many directions people are going and it's easy to hit a wall with someone if you simply just disagree.

>> Why don't you talk about it?

Don't you figure it out.

>> That's just how I deal with things.

But unfortunately due to isolation and I want to segway into this and we'll get into some of the other other aspects about our conversation.

>> But how had covid fair out with this?

>> I mean how did it affect our lives and relationships?

And we had what about two and a half year span there?

>> Absolutely.

We've definitely seen an increase in mental health difficulties.

Obviously things like depression and anxiety mostly rooted to that isolation right on top of the fact that the world really was not safe for a lot of people for a very long time and so that led to increased levels of anxiety.

>> The really interesting thing about anxiety that a lot of people don't think about is the mechanism that makes anxiety work is technically negative reinforcement.

>> So what happens is you have a bad feeling you avoid doing the thing that makes you anxious, that makes the anxiety go away and therefore makes you more likely to avoid that feeling in the future and it kind of becomes this like self-fulfilling prophecy.

>> Is that a cyclical thing?

Absolutely.

And the more you avoid it, the worse it gets.

>> So the best thing we can do when we're feeling anxious or uncomfortable and I hear a lot of people being anxious about engaging in relationships or being vulnerable sharing their stories, the best thing we can do is lean into that discomfort and strive for that connection because if we avoid it it just makes it worse.

>> Yeah, yeah.

We have to deal with it, confront it head on.

We were talking with Dr. Courtney Washington.

She's a clinical psychologist and we are really talking about leading healthy and meaningful lives and we're going to segue into an area here by the way, the telephone number is on your screen if you have any questions and you don't even have to use your real name if you have any questions for Dr. Washington tonight, if you just want to call yourself Sam Dorice or whatever, it doesn't matter as long as you're asking those questions and getting some sort of direction.

So let's talk about how healthy sexuality connects with having healthy relationships.

>> There is definitely a connection there.

Absolutely.

So when I work primarily with teenagers right.

And work with helping them to develop these relationships because unfortunately we don't teach these skills to people and we have such a diverse world nowadays exactly.

>> So we have to educate people by having these types of conversations.

And so when I work with the teens I talk about defining relationships.

Right.

So as we've already mentioned, the types of relationships that and friendships, family, romantic relationships as well as types of intimacy and types of boundaries.

So when I talk about types of intimacy, I like to break it down into five categories and really relationships should have a combination of these different types of intimacies to fully be healthy.

>> I'm all ears.

All right.

So we have shared experience dances, right?

Which is just what it sounds like doing things together that you mutually enjoy.

Then you have emotional intimacy which would be talking about your feelings right.

Your emotional reactions to each other in the relationship I'm sorry but when we're talking about emotional intimacy, we're not talking about the sexual road.

>> Absolutely not.

So define that difference.

So what I would consider the sexual road would be the sexual intimacy which is a piece of the puzzle but not by any means the only piece even in our romantic relationships we're talking about you know, it makes me feel really good about myself when you tell me you were thinking about me earlier today or it made me sad or angry when you said that thing about my mother and it hurt my feelings.

>> Right.

That's the emotional intimacy that we're talking about in that type.

OK, so in the next type we have is verbal intimacy so that would just be general communication.

So you know, my dogs need to go to the vet.

Did you schedule the vet appointment?

Right.

That kind of communication skills then we have non-sexual physical touch so things like hugs, high fives if you're in a romantic relationship that might be cuddling or with your children cuddling.

>> Right.

And then we get to the sexual intimacy piece and so romantic relationships that are healthy should contain all five areas of intimacy.

I see.

And then obviously if you're in a platonic relationship we lose the sexual intimacy generally speaking.

>> Exactly.

All right.

And then you have a an acronym here.

>> It's a PPD kept.

Yep.

Explain that.

So that's an acronym that I made up to help educate people about what determines healthy sexual decision making.

>> So just as I talked about how most things fall on a spectrum sexuality to falls on a spectrum and we don't like to think that really anything sexual is bad or unhealthy right.

But rather making sure that we're being thoughtful about the decisions that we're making and that everyone is in agreement with the choice that's being made and feel safe in that choice.

>> So Captor's, a nice little check for that.

So the C stands for consent, E stands for age appropriateness.

P stands for engaging in an appropriate place.

The other P stands for using protection then we have E which is exposure to drugs and alcohol because that disrupts people's ability to consent appropriate and then the D would be for developmental level.

So just because someone's the same age as you doesn't necessarily mean that developmentally they're on the same place as you are.

>> OK so that is kept captive and then you have another one Frys yes.

>> As in French fries as in French fries.

So I borrowed this from Planned Parenthood.

It is something that's really catchy again for teaching kids about how to determine whether or not they actually have consent because we talk about that this vague kind of way but we don't give really clear directions on it especially the young people being inexperienced.

I think that whether someone an experienced older people too but I think this really will probably hit hard with the younger people.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

And there's a lot of things that feel uncertain.

Right.

And so checking these things so Frys stands for was freely given meaning there was no conversion coercion or talking someone into that.

It is always reversible.

So you can say yeah I like this right now.

Oh never mind I changed my mind that it is informed so the person that is consenting is aware of what they're consenting to that it's enthusiastic.

Right.

So they're excited about what's about to happen in this mutual engagement and that it's specific.

Right.

So that you're not asking to do one thing and then doing something different and kind of checking those things can eradicate or get rid of those gray areas that feel ambiguous.

>> OK, well let's get into and of course I know you're not a biologist but you are a psychologist and we're all about human psyches and psychology.

The thing about human beings, you know, we we have that advantage of being consciously aware of course when we're being intimate or sexually involved with someone when we talk about animals, however, it's all about the mating process and and repopulating the world and so forth and so on and I think that's just instinctual.

>> Am I correct you are correct.

So I have farm animals and I can tell you that this is way more visible on the farm than you city folks don't see much of this very often but that is all instinctual now when it comes to the human process of sexuality, you know and we're being very frank here.

>> What yeah.

I'm just trying to figure out how all this is connected.

>> Doctor, if you can try to explain that, you know, you go through life and then all of a sudden you you see some of your I kind of like them.

>> Well, it starts up here how if we can talk about this how does that develop into this is somebody I want to be physically involved with?

>> Yeah, absolutely.

Those are really great questions to throw you off.

>> But I mean just OK during this conversation I'm saying I got to ask her this.

Yeah, absolutely.

So there is a lot of it that is innate and evolutionarily based.

Right?

There are there's a ton of things from our history that we're drawn towards.

An example of that is that men are more visual oftentimes in the way that they feel attraction or experience attraction where women are more relational.

Now there's some debate about how much of that is socialized versus how which is evolution.

>> But of course some of it is rooted in that history then we have OK and when you think about adolescence, I don't think back to when you were a teenager and those kind of hormones first started changing and shifting for you that in the biological drive we feel regardless right in working in sexual health one of the things that we see with people who struggle with developmental delays is that they might be in the body of an adult but they have the mentality of a younger person.

Parents oftentimes work to try and protect them from that which leads to some problematic behavior because they don't quite know what to do with this energy that they feel just coming out of their bodies.

>> So I would argue that it starts with the physical it starts with that biological drive and in order for us to come out of that as human beings, we have to educate people and have these conversations, help them make sense about what's happening to them so that we can truly have healthy interactions with people because otherwise we're just, you know, no worse than the goats on my farm.

>> Yeah, well and I'm sure they're very sweet goats but some days well no you actually lay that out just just fine for me and I'm sure our viewers appreciate that too to see how all that slinked out and you know the human mind is just an amazing thing.

Now let me ask you this as we go back to these various we go back to the gender and the socializing the socialization impact our beliefs, the relationships and so forth.

>> Are these the same?

And again, we're talking from a very diverse world here and some people that cheat and so I don't want to it's out there absolutely.

>> But are they the same among heterosexual homosexual bisexual relationships?

>> Yeah, great question mark.

So what happens more often in heterosexual relationships is that we seem to get stuck in that gender binary or those gender roles a little bit more rigidly right.

If you're in a partnership with a biological male and a biological female, the messages that they received from the media, from the family, from their other communities that they're a part of about how they should act as a man and how they should act as a woman are very, very strong.

Right.

And so oftentimes we kind of fall into these roles without really thinking about it or having a conversation about what would be a good fit.

Right.

So as an example, my husband is classically trained as a chef.

>> I can't cook at all.

So if we withheld or held up traditional gender roles and I stayed home and cooked and he did did whatever else men are supposed to do we would starve.

>> Yeah, well and you're the professional working in the hospital.

>> Well OK so you know those those roles really don't matter.

>> I mean when it comes to write down the love is love is love is love absolutely.

And it's really about finding partners that mix well with you.

Right think someone that you enjoy spending time with and doing things with you see the world the same way and then having a conversation about what's right for your relationship because every relationship that's different.

>> Yeah.

And then of course we have a political and religious dynamics we have to include in there too.

So you know it's very individualistic thing.

So what would you suggest if somebody was confused or had issues even crossing that bridge to intimacy whether it's platonic or sexual or what would be your advice to that person?

>> That is a big question.

I think there are lots of things for us to do.

I think the first and most important thing is really try and lean into discomfort.

>> Right?

We are creatures of habit.

We like what we know and sometimes we get stuck in those self-perpetuating cycles.

Right.

So the more you can lean outside of your comfort zone and try and be as flexible as possible in your interactions, I would encourage people that to be mindful of boundaries right.

And dependent on the type of relationship that you're in, you're going to have different boundaries with people.

I'm going to talk with the grocery store clerk about something very different than I talk with my husband.

Oh, that's all right.

So that's really important to keep in mind.

It's a gradual process, right.

So in relationships we're talking about this idea of rupture and repair.

So often what happens is we try and come close to someone that is either successful or unsuccessful in that we feel cared for , supported those kinds of things or rejected.

If we feel rejected we pull back, pull away from them and then we're hesitant to go back and reach out again.

If we feel connected then we keep reaching out and all relationships experience ruptures our partners well thank you very much.

>> I hate to cut you off but it's time to do they all wrap up so we're going to wrap it up please come back again.

>> Absolutely.

I'd love to talk more about this and other issues.

Dr. Courtney Washington, clinical psychologist, thank you so much for watching.

We appreciate it.

We hope you learn something and we'll be back next Tuesday with another show here on Health HealthLine PBS thirty nine .

>> Until then, I'm Mark Evans wishing you a wonderful night and some great