(upbeat music) - [Announcer] "Workin' It Out," a podcast show about diversity, equity and inclusion in our workplaces, our communities and our lives.

A show where we put diversity and inclusion to work.

(upbeat music) ♪ Got problems on the job ♪ (♪ Job) ♪ We're working it out ♪ (♪ With Doctor, Doctor V) ♪ Work's got you stressing ♪ ♪ We're working out ♪ (♪ With Doctor, Doctor V) ♪ Yeah, we're working it out, working it out ♪ ♪ Working out ♪ ♪ With Doctor V. ♪ - Welcome.

I'm Dr. Vanessa Weaver, your host of "Workin' It Out."

The show where we put diversity and inclusion to work.

In this episode of "Workin' It Out," we're gonna delve into the hot topic of grandparents, the invisible parent.

There's a significant shift in our family dynamics and our family structure that's been occurring really over the last few decades, but is increasing pretty significantly now.

And that is grandparents becoming the primary parents of their grandchildren, and even their great-grandchildren.

The numbers are pretty significant.

We have over seven million grandchildren that are being raised by their grandparents.

And of course that number increases expediently when we invite and look at all the other cultures, that number.

In fact since 1970, we've had a 70% increase in our families that are lead by grandparents as a primary parent of their grandchildren.

And in fact since 2019, Black grandparents constitute 9.7% of the general population.

Yet, we're 24% of the population that's really raising our grandchildren.

This has major, major significance in terms of the economics of our family, the health structure of our family, the health of those grandchildren, and really the, just the dynamics within our culture.

So we didn't wanna make this show one that's a lot of statistics and by the numbers.

We really want to make it up close and personal.

And so I am so excited today that we have Iyanla Vanzant, our motivational, a thought leader, our spiritual leader, who's gonna take us on an exploration of this topic.

And why?

Because she finds herself at her beautiful age of blank, blank, being a primary parent to her grandson.

And we thought it was kind of important for us to have this conversation.

Because so many of our viewers of this show are grandparents.

We know many of you are parenting full-time your grandchildren.

So I wanna welcome Iyanla to the show.

- Yeah, I like that "Blank, blank."

(both chuckling) - So I didn't know if that was gonna be a secret of yours or if you gonna be telling the world what your age is?

But I wasn't gonna take the- (Iyanla laughing) I wasn't gonna do it.

(Iyanla laughing) But welcome to the show again, Iyanla.

- Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

As always, it's good to be with you.

- Well you know, Iyanla, this is really a pretty significant topic.

And I'm just so glad you're willing to welcome us into your life, and share with us with you experienced, and what you're experiencing being a primary parent.

Iyanla, I'm just curious what is your why?

You know I always ask that question, what is your why?

Well, why are you choosing to engage with our audience, and really the world, on this topic today?

- Yeah... Well, I think my "Why" is first of all to create community, to help people create community.

And also, you know, when you have a platform like mine, rather than choosing to be separated, I look for ways that unify.

I look for ways that people understand that I'm not teaching therapy or sharing.

I'm not teaching theory or sharing what I know about.

I'm teaching what I'm living.

And as I learn and grow in the community, I can share what I learn to help somebody else.

'Cause as you said, this is growing phenomena, grandparents as the primary parent.

And for people of color specifically, I will say Black people or African Americans, Latin people, and I'll even go so far to say Indigenous, or Native people.

It's a cultural thing for us.

For grandparents to share in and participate in the rearing of the new generations.

I know my mom, my grandmother, left my grandfather with her grandmother and came up North to work.

Very often in the Caribbean, parents will leave the children with grandparents and come to the U.S. to work- - Yeah.

- And then eventually send for them.

This is cultural for us.

But now with the impact of certain cultural and social conditions, grandparents are more and more becoming the primary caregivers to young children.

- You know, this is an interesting point that you're making.

And I think about it as being generational and definitely cultural.

To me the distinction, at least as I think about, is that now the grandparents being that primary parent is the differentiator.

You know, before grandparents were, helped with the raising of their children, their grandchildren, because they all lived in the same house together.

- That's right, that's right.

- But now- - Generational- - many of these kids are moving in with their grandparents.

And the grandparents are taking the total responsibility.

Socially, culturally, the kids' education, economic, financial, the whole thing resides with that grandparent.

So that brings a different kind of weight to it.

- It brings a different weight and in the other circumstances, the cultural and the historical impact of grandparents, inter-generational living.

Nowadays it's happening because of the increase in the incarceration of women.

The increased incarceration for drug offenses, the increase in deaths as a result of drug and substance abuse, and the increase mental health issues.

So grandparents, where before they were in the home, and they did the babysitting, or the cooking, or the helping while mom was working.

Now, sometimes the parents are gone.

They're in jail, they're dead, they're out in the street.

Which has a whole another impact.

Because then the grandparent has to also be very mindful of the child's emotional and psychological health.

- [Vanessa] Exactly.

- What do you tell a child about a mother, or a father, who's incarcerated?

- [Vanessa] Right.

- I can't tell you the number of people I talk to today who say, "You know, when I grew up my father was in jail."

- Mm.

- You know, just that's it.

"He was in jail, he wasn't there, he was in jail."

And so with the increase of today, parents raising kids, or being the primary caregivers, I don't know what those stories are gonna look like, or what the impact is gonna be.

- I tell you... And I mean, we know it's having a pretty significant impact.

Not just a negative impact, but also a positive impact.

Because if it wasn't for many of those grandparents become the primary parent to those kids, they could be lost in the system, in the foster care system, or just... Just gone.

In terms of us being able to impact them and shape how they develop and grow, so- - Well you know, that's another part of my "Why?"

I am the primary caregiver for my seven-year-old.

He's seven now, I've had him since he was four.

My seven-year-old great-grandson, okay?

(chuckling) Not even my grandson.

I raised his father.

And now I'm raising him.

That's a part of my "Why," to keep him out of the system.

- Mm-hm.

- You know, his mother was in the system, his father was in the system.

And my "Why" was this young Black man will not be in the system.

- Be in the system.

- He will not be in the foster care system.

He will not be, he hasn't even been in the educational system.

We went to private school.

(chuckling) You know?

And he will not be in the system.

So that's another part of my "Why?"

- Well, Iyanla, as you and I talked about this, I just want to thank you for helping me become even more transparent.

I have an aunt, one of my favorite, and I have two aunts, and both of them are my favorite aunt.

But anyway, at the age of 67, she became a primary parent to her son, her grandson.

And I, you know I really have to tell you, I felt a little anger that she was being put in a situation.

Because she had been talking about her retirement, and had been planning for this next better life that she was gonna have.

You know, being able to travel and do all of those things she wants to do.

And then (fingers snapping) in the flick of a moment, her whole life changed.

And she found that she was gonna be, she's gonna have a different direction in her life.

And I thought, "Wow, I don't know how I feel about that."

On one hand I thought, "Well, thank God for the child "that she's stepping up and she's will to do it."

But I felt some anger about her being put in that situation.

And I think I also felt, you know, some sadness for her like, "Wow, that's a tough one."

You know, to be 67 and you got an infant in your arm.

But I must tell you her attitude about it was very different.

And her attitude forced me to think about it differently.

But yeah, I mean it's a tough topic.

It's a tough situation.

It could be a tough situation.

But also, an ennobling one.

Because I tell my aunt all the time, "You know I look at you now, "and it's like you've, you know, "shed about 30 years off of your life."

(Iyanla chuckling) "My goodness, you look like you trying to be a new teenager."

- Well, yeah.

That if you got a little one, they will youth you.

Because you gotta learn how to run and move real quick.

And you raise three interesting points.

Number one, very few grandparents pick it, or choose it.

And it does happen overnight.

You get a phone call (chuckling), or you've been watching this situation deteriorate till the day comes when you have to step in.

So it does- - And step up.

- And it will take your vision board (chuckling), and burn it to the ground.

(Iyanla chuckling) - [Vanessa] I'm telling you.

- It'll take your bucket list and toss it in the trash.

Because like I said, my thing is, at 72- - Oh you tell it- - I got a number.

- You tell it.

(both chuckling) - I got it, I got to do this right here for at least another 18 years.

That's 90.

- Yeah, that's 90.

- Because I can't go anywhere until I know he is fully prepared to stand on his own as a powerful proud Black man in America.

So I can't go nowhere, and I can't run after him on a walker.

(chuckling) Or with an oxygen tank.

So the fact that I don't have that going on, and he's here.

- You and I have often talked about the pressures that women are under, and particularly Black women.

You mentioned Indigenous women, Indian, American Indian women.

By the way, they're the second largest percentage of grandparents that raise they're children, by the way.

- That's right.

- I wanted to share that with you.

- Yeah.

- So when you said that, I thought, "Okay, that makes a lot of sense."

We talked about- - Well you know, my parental lineage is Native American.

- Ah-ha, I remember that.

- Cherokee.

Yeah.

- I remember that.

So you know, we've talked about though, the pressure that Black women under, without this being a primary grandparent, or under.

Under, and the impact it has on their health, their diabetes, their heart, their weight, just their outlook in life.

You know, their mental health.

That it's really a struggle for many Black women just to keep going every day.

And I've often wondered, and I was looking to see what the research said, and I didn't see a lot about this, Iyanla.

Because maybe this is just about how we live it.

But I just wondered, are Black women contributing to this generational cycle that we find ourselves in?

Where we're raising our, you know, we're raising our grandchildren, our grandmothers raised us.

I mean, is there a point when Black women should be saying, "We need to be communicating "another kind of message."

Why should we?

Why should Black women have the responsibility and the weight of this?

- It's cultural.

I mean, we'll take it on quicker.

We won't question it as quickly.

And again, the impact is caused by what's going on in society.

But I think what's important for Black women and women of color, in general, is that we gotta take better care of our health, period!

(chuckling) So that we could be prepared.

First of all, to live out our dream board.

But second of all, when we find ourselves as primary caregivers, and we do have the hypertension, or the heart issue, or the diabetes, or the arthritis, or whatever it is, that's a wake-up call.

- So Iyanla, what, you know, when you think about, you're gonna be 90 when he goes to college.

And you will be here, I have no question about it.

(Iyanla chuckling) How does it, how has that required you to reshape your life?

I mean you, you know you travel extensively, you speak.

- Not anymore.

- You teach.

I mean, what is your life like now?

(Iyanla laughing) And if I could ask you, have you ever felt a slight resentment?

- Well, let's separate those two things.

The anger and the resentment, let's put that over here.

And say it's perfectly natural and normal.

It's perfectly natural and normal.

But you cannot hold onto it.

Let's go over here.

Somebody, I have a friend... A doctor.

Who every year he's trying to get me to come to the New Year's Eve ball.

So I could meet all the retired and active single doctors.

He's been doing this for years.

(Iyanla chuckling) - Ah-ha.

- I can't go.

(laughing) 'Cause I have no babysitter.

(laughing) The young people are out on New Year's Eve.

And the old people that I know are asleep.

(laughing) - I'm not used to you saying you can't do something.

I don't even know if I've ever heard you use that word.

- I know, you know people...

If I leave my house and I travel now, the level of preparation that I have to make.

Because he's in school.

I can't... Let me tell you, this is ssh.

Don't tell anybody I told you this, okay?

- [Vanessa] Okay.

- Don't tell nobody.

- [Vanessa] It's just between you and me.

- Well he had been here about, he was four, just turned four.

And had been here about, maybe about three weeks, four, maybe a month.

And I'm a night owl.

So I decided that I would, I had no ice cream.

I wanted some coffee ice cream.

And I looked and it was like 10:40.

So let me run up to the Safeway.

(both laughing) For this I got up, put my sweat pants on over my nightgown.

(Iyanla laughing) Put my coat on, jumped in the car, and took off down the road.

I was about maybe seven, eight minutes from my house.

The Safeway is like 15 minutes up the road.

And I screamed.

(Iyanla screaming) Slammed on the brakes!

(laughing) And whipped that car!

I forgot the child was in the house.

(laughing) - Oh my goodness.

(Iyanla laughing) - I totally forget that he was upstairs sleeping.

- Oh my.

- I could of crashed myself into a tree.

So I had to (chuckling), you know, everything I do now.

I have to say, "Okay, where's he going?"

And, "What is he doing?"

And, "What am I gonna do with him?"

And so I mean at this point, considering that it is a privilege, I feel okay about it, and I've worked it in.

But in the beginning, I never had resentment.

I had...

I had resistance.

(laughing) I do not want... What do I look at 70, 69, raising a seven-year-old?

He was four.

- [Vanessa] Mm-hm.

- Finger prints on my glass table.

(laughing) Crumbs in my chair.

(laughing) You know?

- Now it sounds like those things don't even matter to you.

- Okay.

- You're laughing about it.

- Now it doesn't, you know?

If I don't have fingerprints on the glass, I'm looking, "Okay, where is he, what is he doing?"

You know?

(laughing) But I never had the resentment, but I do understand how that's possible.

You've raised your kids, you've put in your time.

You made your plans, and here you got to start all over again.

It's like an oops-baby.

(chuckling) You know?

Your kids are growing and oops, you're pregnant.

But this time you get the baby without the labor, and all of that.

But it's perfectly normal.

What I would say to the grandmas, and even the aunties.

'Cause there's a lot of aunties raising their nieces and nephews, too.

I would say, you gotta heal that up.

Because the children feel it.

- And what do they have to do to heal it up?

Because I could imagine it's a lot of major resentment to have to give up everything you thought you were working for.

To give up the freedom to go to that party and meet those guys, or whomever, you know?

And you give it up for a grandson.

And probably sometimes for the child who's not even, maybe appreciative of all that you're doing.

You know, their mother, their father.

- It's huge.

- I mean- - It's huge.

- How do they deal with that resentment?

How do they get to that?

- First of all, give yourself permission to feel it and know it.

Even if you don't know what to do about it.

Don't tell yourself, "I shouldn't feel this way.

"I shouldn't be thinking like that."

Give yourself permission to feel it and know it.

Whether you have to write it down in a journal, or if you got a call, you know, a mental health practitioner.

Give yourself permission to feel it and know it.

Because if you do, and you begin to look for the benefits, this child is not in the system.

With all the experience and resources that I have, or whatever it is that you're offering, I know that God has entrusted me with this young soul.

So there has to be something that I have to give this child.

Start looking at it that way.

And understand that you're not doing it by yourself.

You're not doing it because his daddy is incarcerated.

You're not doing it 'cause his momma's on drugs.

You're not doing it because you failed your kids.

You're not doing it for that reason.

You're doing because of God's purpose, for that child.

And that you're the one that can provide that baby, that young soul with whatever it is that they need.

But you can't get there until you say, "I am really in high pissosity "that these irresponsible people have had this child "and left it on my doorstep."

This is the problem.

(chuckling) You can't get to the blessing and the privilege if you won't give yourself permission to go through anger and the resentment.

- And is there anything that a grandparent, a primary parent, can do to prepare the child?

I mean, should the child be in some kind of counseling program, or at least the parent, the grandparent, have some sensitivity to how they might be feeling.

- I can tell you it all depends on how the child comes to you.

My child, my grandson came out of his mother's arms into his grandmother's arms.

His grandmother was my daughter.

She passed away.

My daughter died, so I ended up with the child.

When you have a child that's been in and out of foster care or in and out of deprivation and poverty.

Or has been around violence, or has been dragged in and out the crack house, those kids need help.

And you won't see it until they're probably 11, 12, 13-years-old.

So I say start the counseling, start the therapy early.

Also be very mindful of whatever the story is that you're telling the child about why they're with you.

Why my grandson is with me?

Because I love him, I want him, and I can keep him safe.

- [Vanessa] Mm-hm.

- "Why am I not with my mom?"

You're mom isn't able to give you all that you need right now.

And so God asked me to do it and I said, "Yeah."

"Because you're my sunny bunny."

"You're my sweet pea," you know?

And if the parent is incarcerated, his father, my grandson was incarcerated for a little while.

He's not anymore.

But I never, I never told the child that he was incarcerated.

Well what happened is when he would call, he would hear, "You are receiving a call from an inmate "at such and such a place, will you accept the charges?"

So when he was about five-and-a-half, or so, he said, "Well, where is so and so?

"Where is such and such a place?"

- [Vanessa] Mm-hm.

- And I said it's in Georgia.

"Well, why is my dad there?"

"Well, he had some challenges, "and he has to be there to work them out."

So when his father called again, he said, "Are you in jail?"

(both chuckling) - So what you're saying is be honest in a way that, at a level that the child can understand.

- That's right.

- To answer their questions.

- That's right.

Now older kids, you know, when they're 10, 11, 12, that is a conversation you can have.

"Your mom, your dad, they're away right now.

"They had some bad behavior, or they ran into a problem.

"And they're gonna talk to you about it when you get home."

The other thing that, you know, in addition to grandmas as primary, or grandparents, as primary caregiver, another huge issue, Vanessa, is parenting in prison.

Huge...

Huge... Thing.

Yeah, be mindful.

And yes, depending upon the circumstances, my grandson didn't come out of violence or deprivation.

But he's in therapy now.

He goes once a week, he's seven.

As he gets older and I see it, because at young age they do play therapy, art therapy.

But he's in therapy.

Because here's the thing: This is a child who no matter what you do, or what you say, feels abandoned by their parents.

And that message is, "Something's wrong with me, "what did I do wrong?

"Why am in not important?"

That has to be addressed, whether they talk about it or not.

Because at five, four, five, six, they don't have the cognitive development to say, "I feel abandoned."

(chuckling) You know?

That's what you'll see at 11, 12, and 13.

That's when you'll see the anger.

That's when you'll see the shame.

That's when you see...

So start early, start early.

- You know it's interesting, because unfortunately they have kids around them that remind them that something different about their parent.

I do wanna remind folks that there are services, social services in our communities.

I wanna make sure that they're taken advantage of.

You and I talked about that.

- [Iyanla] Yeah.

- In terms of number one, making sure that the legal protections are in place.

- [Iyanla] That's right.

- Know that you have the legal authority and rights, and you know, privileges that come with full-time parenting.

And also making sure if their Medicare, or health kind of opportunities that child should be granted.

That in fact their grandparent finds out what those are, and they can take advantage of those.

- Yeah, you raise a very interesting point.

Because even though it's culture for us, even though it has gone on for generations, society has changed a lot.

And if you end up being primary caregiver for your grandchild, I encourage you to go into the court and get legal guardianship.

Because very often without that piece of paper, you can't make a medical decision.

You can't make an educational decision.

You can't travel out of the country with the child.

When the grandparent takes the mother/father, you know, whatever to court, now you got a whole another adversarial situation going on that has to be addressed.

But if you find yourself in the role of primary caregiver for a grandchild, great-grandchild, niece, nephew, get yourself into court.

Because otherwise there are benefits that you can't take advantage of.

- Well Iyanla, I wanna thank you so much for just being transparent about the role that you're assuming as you're a primary parent of your great-grandson.

And as we know it, it's really a pretty major topic.

One that needs our attention and our support in our community.

And you've been a role model stepping up there saying, "Hey, this is what my life is like."

And maybe it's not like that for everybody, but there are components of that, that we all share.

- Yeah.

- It's a real gift to us.

I wanna thank you so much for being our guest today.

So this is- - Well, thank you for being so thoughtful as to bring the topic to the forefront.

'Cause it's something that people aren't talking about.

- So I wanna thank you on behalf of my "Workin' It Out" crew and team, I wanna thank each of you.

And again, Iyanla Vanzant for being a part of our show today.

And I wish you a Be Happy Week.

This is Dr. Vanessa Weaver and I'm signing off.

Bye-bye.

(upbeat music) ♪ Got problems on the job ♪ (♪ Job) ♪ We're working it out ♪ (♪ With Doctor, Doctor V.) ♪ Workplace got you stressing ♪ ♪ We're working it out ♪ (♪ With Doctor, Doctor V.) ♪ Yeah, we're working it out, working it out ♪ ♪ Working it out ♪ (♪ With Doctor, Doctor V.)