[THEME MUSIC] and thanks for joining us for another episode of Mid-American Hello Gardener.

I'm your host, Tinisha Spain, and joining me in the studio are two of my pals, and they've got a lot to discuss with you today, so let's have them introduce themselves, and we'll jump right in.

So Jen, we'll start with you.

Hi, I'm Jennifer Nelson.

I wear a lot of hats these days, besides schlepping kids to sporting events, I also teach vegetable gardening at the U of I and I have some articles online at groundedandgrowing.com wonderful.

A generalist, generalist, just about everything.

Touch on everything.

All right, wonderful Chuck.

I am Chuck Voigt.

I'm long retired now from the Department of Crop Sciences at the University of Illinois.

Vegetable crops and herbs were my specialties.

Late in my career, I got drafted to teach home horticulture.

So again, kind of a generalist with a with a degree, undergraduate degree in horticulture.

So wonderful.

So they can answer pretty much everything that you've got, right?

Did I oversell it?

Sometimes better than others.

We give it our best shot.

Give it your best shot.

Okay, all right.

Well, we'll start with you, Jen, your show and tell us.

Okay, I'm gonna start with this is kind of an interesting show and tell brought to us by one of my students.

Asked me, he said he was looking for this particular mint that he couldn't find here, and he didn't understand why we couldn't find it here, and he could only get it from his mom.

And he was talking about it for a while, and I was like, Wait back up.

Where are you from?

And he stays from Saudi Arabia.

And he brought me some of the dried mint that he his mother had sent him.

And he did, he says a very old school kind of thing, like his mom gathers it from the woods and stuff.

And I had no idea there were woods and mountains in Saudi Arabia, but there were, and so we were using Google lens of all things to try and figure out what we were he was taking pictures of some other things that looked similar to it.

And we ended up using all of our Google scents to spidey sense to come up with all the botanical descriptions, and we finally hit on Mentha longifolia, and it is also so Mentha mint.

And you can actually look at the stems.

The stems are square, which is what we expect for mint and longifolia.

Long folia leaves, so they're long, they don't even look remotely like mint we would grow here.

And we saw these pictures online, and I'm like, he was all excited, and I said, like, slow down.

I don't know if we can even grow it here, because you never know this is native to the Middle East and North Africa.

So I'm like, it may not even be loud here, so slowly, roll a little bit.

But I found a greenhouse in Kentucky that grew it, and so I ordered, I ordered two little plants, and they came as little plugs, which are just like, teeny tiny, and they were way overgrown.

And I didn't want to put them in too big of a pot.

But, like, two to three weeks ago, I put them in these four inch pots, and I was like, Oh, it'll take a little while for it to fill out.

And I noticed they're going dry really quick.

Where I have them, like, in my yard, and I put this like, holy cow, like it's full.

Mint is gonna mint.

Yeah, Mint is gonna mint.

Do not put this anywhere near, near the open ground at your house.

This will be in a pot at my house.

And then the other plant I have is gonna go in the greenhouse at on campus.

But it's definitely very minty.

It smells a little different than than mint, like what we would typically grow around here.

It's got kind of a more medicinal smell.

And from what I've been reading, this would be way more accurate if you're making something like Taboola, any of the Middle Eastern dishes, has a lot of medicinal uses, similar to what we use mint for that we would typically grow here, like gi kinds of distress and that sort of thing.

But should have a flower on it at some point.

And it's really kind of different looking.

It is.

I would have never guessed mint when you first walked in the door.

Yeah.

So just goes to show Mint is is aggressive across the world.

I said pygmanthemum, which is Mountain Mint here, and I have one that has very similar, long, narrow leaves, like that, but, but that's not, not one that I've had in my extensive mint collection back in the day.

Yeah, and the smell, I would say it's, it's minty, but there's, there's like a savory side to it as well.

You could definitely see it going in dishes.

And, yeah, it's not just like a tea or something like that, yeah.

So we'll see a little end of medicinal with it, though, too.

Which might make the dishes a little strange to the to the North American palate.

I would think, well, it might be like a little bit goes along.

I haven't made anything with it yet.

I haven't made tea with it yet, but I was thinking it might make a nice iced tea.

I had great ambitions, lots of opportunities, yes, and it's going to go in a bigger pot in the next couple of days.

And I'm going to, like, talk to the greenhouse staff about, like, don't let this anywhere near the ground, nowhere.

Yeah, if it's like any other method, they'll, they'll make a stolen and try to sneak it down the edge of the pot.

It is ready, and find freedom about how there was cement in the greenhouse and it actually grew underneath the wall outside.

And then, wow, yes, I believe it.

We've had it grow through, like the mesh the graded tables and stuff, and grow into pots next to it and whatever.

Yeah, be careful with that stuff.

It's gonna out survive humanity along the cockroach and Twinkies and New York City rats.

Yes, all together, living heavily eats, eating rats.

Okay, thank you.

Jen, all right, Chuck.

We are to you which one you want to do first?

Which I was going to do an update on Chuck's timetable?

Oh, drum roll.

Just that we're getting to the point where it's going to be appropriate to plant brussels sprouts in the garden.

Okay?

You know those plants that you saw in March, not ideal.

Okay?

The seeds probably should be started somewhere in June, which is kind of where we are, and depending on the variety, like, if you're into red Rubin, or one of the old heirloom types, they take forever, like 120 days or something.

So you want to get those started, probably by the first of June, so that you can get them out in July.

Some of the quicker things like the Jade cross, Jade cross E some of the newer hybrid ones are more like 90 days from seed.

So you could probably start those a little bit later.

But now is the time to get them ready to set out and then, and then start the pest control immediately, immediately, and because I saw a little a little white butterfly out sniffing around my transplants that went out way too late.

The other things is, we're as we approach July, that's when you want to get rutabagas out, the Gill, feather, turnips, those kinds of things, and start those.

So we're, we're on the cusp of the fall garden here now, and I want, I wanted to make sure I mentioned that, since timing seems to be a question that comes up, thank you for keeping us on schedule.

If you want those, those big rutabagas, you need to get them going in probably between the fourth and the 15th of July.

So why are the garden centers selling us brussels sprouts in March?

I mean, obviously, because people are buying them.

Yes, yes.

Why do they sell tomatoes on March 1?

Why do sell basil that same day?

Right?

True, true.

It's, I don't know, but it just gives you another two or three months of pest control, and the first sprouts to try to form are going to be loose and funny and just increase really full of that nastiness, that bitterness, and you're going to be well up the stem before you get to anything that's tight and sweet.

And I bought the ones in the spring and put them out just to see, because they say you can get a spring Brussels sprout I just never have, because they've just done nothing.

They've just kind of sat there and hung out, and they haven't really put on any significant growth or sprouts, right?

Got into the fall, yeah, you want to.

You want them growing, growing rapidly from seed, like the other crucifers, and never looking back.

And then have decent size when you get to that cooling weather in the fall.

And then they just kind of blossom at that point.

But now, if I'm at home watching and I put my sprouts in in May, is all hope lost.

No that further up the stem you're going to get some some decent sprouts.

It's just the ones that you see sold on the stem, where everything from right above the ground up.

You know, 18 inches are beautiful sprouts.

That's not going to happen from spring, but you know, from here on up you will.

And so I had considered trying to well, and I actually went to one of the.

Garden centers that I frequent looking for a sell pack of Brussels sprouts that they hadn't sold to put them in now, and because it's so hard to find a greenhouse or anywhere that'll start fall crucifers, right?

Because they're so on schedule, yeah, there's not as it's not as showy, and it doesn't enter people's minds to do the fall garden now they just call in September, October, can you come do a program about fall gardening?

Well, now, started that a while ago.

Yes, yes.

Okay.

Well, thank you.

Now, now let's go into one of your show and tells.

Okay.

Well, this is lemon thyme.

Lemon thyme.

Let's take a sniff.

And this is more of a French thyme, more of the ooh, that's very sweet smelling.

Yeah, very nice.

That's and so that's coming out.

The fresh started to flower a few weeks ago.

The lemon is only just now starting to think about flowering when you cook with those Will you do it fresh?

Or do you dry them?

Either, either.

Okay, either the the the lemon thyme cookies that I brought in, I don't know that was one year or more ago, were from dried lemon thyme.

And I'm probably going to give this a mowing and dry it off when I when I get back up there this weekend, but the the lemon tends to have a rounder leaf.

Okay, the French has almost a needle like leaf.

They're more narrow.

The English looks a lot like the like the lemon, but it has the traditional thyme flavor.

So I don't know if you're interested.

These would make great cuttings.

Yeah, let's show those off.

Oh, I see a tiny, little, tiny little flower in there.

Now, which one was this?

One again, that's the French.

This is the French.

Got it?

I don't know if you guys want to get a shot of that.

Very nice.

Yeah, the old side by side, very nice.

And what are some other things that you use these for Thyme is, is, is used a lot in meat dishes and and other cooking.

I put lemon thyme in kombucha through like a secondary flavoring.

That's actually a good idea, really refreshing, yeah.

And the nice thing about lemon thyme is you do very definitely get the thyme flavor and the lemon flavor, which, which, I think is a nice package.

I had a bunch of my English thyme, so similar to the French thyme die off this winter.

I've never seen that happen.

Thyme is when, at my house, is going to swallow half my house.

I was just shocked to find that some of it just completely died.

And it was pretty well.

It was well established.

So who knows?

Interesting, I wonder if it because we had a pretty did we?

Is it the temperature, maybe, or you said it's right next to the house, which you would think would have that kind of warming that maybe that warming and sometimes that heat thaw, heaves things and messes things up.

Very nice.

Okay, thank you.

Chuck All right, Jen, we are back to you.

Okay, I brought this is like a set it and forget it.

DIY, because set it and forget it.

Horticulture, because I had some African Violets that we were using for class to do some propagation.

And the students, of course, like, after a whole week's worth of students went through these plants, they were, like, scalped and so well, but then I had some, like, random leaves that broke off.

I'm like, I can't throw them away.

So, right.

Yeah, you're a gardener.

They must be safe, so I grabbed a salt pack and rooting powder, which is we've talked about before.

I didn't bring it with but you just dip the end of the leaf in rooting powder and stick it in the soil, and I had moist soil and stuck it in a Ziploc bag, stuck it in my office under some plant lights, and forgot about it, because it's in the bag, so it's not going to dry out.

These take a little while to get going, but you can see at the base of the leaf, the original leaf.

Here we've got baby African Violets growing and so they're they're about ready to go.

I'm going to put them in a pot like this size, and see with if we can get them bigger, growing up bigger for the students to use next time, and this was under a plant light, so no heat being given off.

You want to be careful if you do the Ziploc thing, not putting them in direct sun.

We had an issue with some of the student ones.

We had some they had domes on them.

And the Sun came out, and we didn't get the domes off, and it was like steamed vegetables, yeah, so be careful.

Do be careful with that.

But the Ziploc thing works if you just got kind of bright indirect light.

And they're so beautiful, we were talking before the show, that everybody's got the plant that they just cannot keep alive.

And African Violet is the one for me.

See, my mom is the plant whisperer with African Violet.

She can, like, resurrect it from the dead.

So maybe we need to, perhaps send them to my mom.

Yeah, yes, yes.

Because I just, I think I over water, and then I overcompensate and don't water enough, and then that cycle too many times, and kaput, she goes.

Wanda said, My unicorn plant is English ivy.

It's on every beginner plant, house plant list known to man, but I can't keep you alive.

It gets spider mite instantaneously as soon as it crosses my threshold.

And that's it.

That's it.

Is there a plant that you kill often?

Come on, Chuck.

Humor us.

Humor us.

Chuck.

Your humor, probably, probably nothing comes to mind.

Oh, no, whatever.

He's perfect.

All right.

What's next?

What do you got?

You brought some other I brought some other things.

I've talked in the past about, about sage and how you prune it in the in the spring effects, whether you get lots of flowers, which you can kind of still see a little bit of color there they're going past.

So I had one big sage plant, and I cut a big center portion back really hard.

So I've got lots of very nice flowers.

Reminds me of thanksgiving.

Every time I smell sage, I think of thanksgiving.

Now, in the best of possible worlds, I would go and cut these off to dead edit, because I don't really need sage seeds.

But if you are growing it for the leaves and you see it start to flower, do you want those?

Can you?

Should you cut the flowers off if, if you just want to use it in the kitchen, wait till it goes through the winter, because it'll be a heartier plant, full sized, and then as it starts to come out in the spring, just, just cut it back hard, all over, and you'll get only, only these, oh, and more of them, because this takes energy to do.

And so I can't resist the flowers, though, and the hummingbirds.

It's a it's a great wildlife plant to flower early in the spring.

That's why I did kind of half and half well, and I was just hacking a lot off of mine because it was done flowering.

And so it gets quite woody over time.

It does, it does, as does time.

Yes, it kind of needs to be mowed.

It's almost like a shrub like in the second year and beyond.

You need to cut that back really hard early, which I did this year.

So, or it'll take over, no, or it gets Woody and kind of, kind of, it becomes less vigorous, yeah, like the center of mine sometimes was getting dead, okay, so, so give them a haircut every once in a while.

Yep, okay, let's see.

We're gonna do a question.

Let's see.

This is from Annette, and she says, my large bleeding heart dies back mid summer, leaving a bleak, empty area in the garden.

What can I plant to fill that space?

So you guys kind of talked about this and had some suggestions for her.

I said, pretty much any kind of annual plant that would like the same conditions as bleeding heart, which is basically partial shade.

Okay, so like Petunias, something along those, maybe some impatience or, yeah, you can get creative right there, depending on how large that spot is.

When you have a spot like that, like where I'm thinking of where my tulips are, is there anything you need to know about planting among something else that's dormant.

Are there any housekeeping items there that we need to be aware of?

Tulips are a terrible thing to inter plant with something for later, because tulips want to be arid from the time their foliage dies down until fall.

Rains come short in the life of the tulip, right?

If, because regular watering, it's not to the benefit of the tulips noted.

All right, they're on the drip line, maybe, like adjacent so it would kind of grow over the if you're worried about, like, the gap, all right, I know I've got some moving around.

The other alternative is to dig the tulips every year.

That's not gonna happen between baseball games, right?

Yeah, that's not gonna happen.

Or, like, the park district, just dig them up and throw them away and replant every fall.

But lots of places do this.

That, but lots of options to plant in there in that space.

Okay, wonderful.

All right, Chuck, we're gonna come back to you.

Okay, well, the lovage is flowering, and this one is still in pretty good shape, but I have something that kind of webs up the inflorescence, and I was hoping that maybe Phil would watch the show and tell me what's going on so my my entomologist colleague.

But there it is.

And again, it's got a house down that you can use as a as a Bloody Mary stirrer.

Oh, we're getting creative here.

And then, just because I kind of like it, the mammoth red clover where my garden is.

It used to be a farm field, and when, when we did wheat in the rotation, often we would go out early in the spring, when the ground is kind of honeycombed from freezing and thawing and over spread clover seed, it would go down in those cracks in the soil.

And, you know, as spring progressed, it would kind of germinate.

The wheat would be thick enough that it would kind of be suppressed.

And then once the once the wheat is harvested, and sunlight gets down to the you get a wonderful stand of red clover, which is really, really good for the soil.

And sometimes it would even do well enough that we, we would sneak a hay crop and actually, actually, actually cut it and make red clover hay, which is a little harder to get, to get dried out.

Well, then, then alfalfa or something else, but it's really good.

Also, we could make tea from the blossoms, and that's that's a very helpful thing.

I've seen some really pretty like little tea satchels that people will make and use that in, and it's just as a nice, colorful pop, a little wild oats snuck through, which, which always reminds me of a me of the plant class, the nomenclature class, olmut, the TA took us out.

And you know, we're farm boys, we're looking at this.

And it was wild oats.

No, it's downy brome, which looks a lot like it.

And once you know that the two plants, they tend to grow in the same places and just and look a lot alike.

But if you know, if you get down with the hand lens, they're different, but habit wise and location wise, they they do that.

So that's that was a long time ago, probably 1970 ish, and it still sticks with me that we were wrong.

That correction stuck with you.

We've got about three minutes left.

Let's talk clematis.

Sue writes in my Jackmani.

Jackmani, am I pronouncing it right?

Jackmani clematis has a number of yellow leaves.

It seems quite healthy.

Besides that, my search says it is a magnesium deficiency.

So she added Magnesium to the soil around the roots last year.

But the same thing happened again this year, as you can see from the photo.

And she's asking what you guys think she should do, could do, or what's calling causing the yellowing there.

She didn't say if the magnesium helped at all when she added it.

She did not say that.

She did not.

But whatever condition that was last year, it came back.

I would say, do a pH test the soil soil test, because things like magnesium and iron, lots of those micronutrients are very dependent on pH, and if the pH is out of whack, then adding it, it'll just it'll just become unavailable, right?

Also, if the pH isn't right, so it comes to me that it may be a pH that's too high, but I would get it tested and see if that, if that does anything, also she might, in case it's iron and not magnesium, she might do a little chelated iron and see if that greens it up any but her local extension office would have Those soil test kits.

They don't do the testing there, but they will give her instructions to send it out.

And the more you can tell the soil testing lab about what you're growing and what you're doing, the more likely you'll get results that you understand, because they're more geared towards giving answers to farmers.

And they'll give you, like, well, put this many pounds per acre, and you're like, I'm sorry, yes, yes, yeah.

So if you kind of give them dimensions and tell them the crop is really important, to tell them what you're trying to grow, because then they can make recommendations more customized to you got it?

Okay?

We got a minute, 30 seconds.

I want to get into these.

So then just show the picture, but tell us what you got there.

Uh, I call them dinosaur gourd seeds.

I thought those were peanuts.

I'm not going to eat them.

They're extremely acrid.

So the gourd looks hilarious.

Wow, it does look like something horrible is going to hatch out.

Well, and anyway, I've grown them for years, and I haven't for a few years now, and the ones that I put out don't seem to be coming up.

So I went to the RIP, to the cooler to see if maybe these have survived better.

But I have grown these since the 70s.

Basically, if you look closely and if you're a Star Trek fan, I swear that texture is what they used for the for the foreheads.

Some makeup man somewhere had had a dinosaur gourd, also called maranka, or caveman's club.

And if, if they grow on a trellis and hang straight down, it looks more like a club with a long straight handle.

I hope these grow, because I want to see what one looks like in person.

So thank you so much, if not, seed savers has them and they can be found, okay?

Thank you, and thank you so much for watching.

We will see you next time.

Goodnight.

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