>> THIS WEEK ON OFF THE RECORD, LET'S MAKE A DEAL.

IN THIS CASE, A $56 MILLION DEAL BETWEEN CMS AND THE COUNTY.

SCHOOLS GET THEIR MONEY BUT WHAT DO PARENTS AND KIDS GET?

FORECLOSURE IN UPTOWN'S EPICENTER WHICH IS MORE LIKE EMPTY CENTER RIGHT NOW.

BLAME IT ON BAD BUSINESS OR SHOULD WE BLAME COVID?

GOVERNOR COOPER IN UPTOWN URGING MORE COVID VACCINES AS LOCAL COVID DEATHS DROP TO ZERO BUT THAT NEW VARIANTAR COULD BE AIA PROBLEM.

UNC'S IMAGE PROBLEM.

FINALLY OFFERING TENURE AT CHAPEL HILL TO A CONTROVERSIAL NEW PROFESSOR WHO SAIDSO THANKS BUT NO THANKS.

ALSO BODY CAMERA RELEASED, COP FIRED AND AN APOLOGY FROM THE OFFICER HIMSELF.

GOOD-BYE GOLF COURSE AS BALLENTYNE GETS A NEW PARK INSTEAD AND THE MAYOR HAS SET WHEN THE PANTHERS MAY GET THEIR NEW STADIUM.

LOTS TO TALK ABOUT ON PBS CHARLOTTE.

>> FROM OUR PBS CHARLOTTE STUDIO IN HISTORIC PLAZA MIDWOOD, I'M JEFF SONNIER AND WE'RE OFF THE RECORD TALKING ABOUT THE STORIES YOU HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS WEEK.

IF YOU WATCH THE NEWS, READ THE NEWS AND LISTEN TO THE NEWS, YOU'LL RECOGNIZE THE NAMES AND FACES AROUND OUR VIRTUAL TABLE.

DANIELLE FROM AXIO CHARLOTTE AND DEDRICK RUSSELL FROM WBTV AND MARK BECKER FROM WSOC.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOUEL CAN JOIN THE CONVERSATION AT HOME.

EMAIL US TO OFF THE RECORD@WTVI.ORG.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE DEAL BETWEEN THE CITY AND THE COUNTY AND CMS.

I TALKED ABOUT IT BEING LET'S MAKE A DEAL.

IT STARTED OUT AS THE COUNTY'S VERSION OF TRUTH OR CONSEQUENCES.

TELL US THEEQ TRUTH ABOUT HOW YOU'LL IMPROVE THE SCHOOLS OR PAY THE $56 MILLION CONSEQUENCES.

IT SOUNDS LIKE, DEDRICK, THE SCHOOL SYSTEM WON THIS ROUND AT LEAST.

>> YEAH.

ABSOLUTELY.

IN TALKING TO SOME PEOPLE WITH THE COUNTY S COMMISSION THEY SAY THAT CMS WAS WELL PREPARED WHEN THEY WENT INTO THIS MEDIATION.

KEEP IN MIND, GROWING INTO THE MEDIATION, CMS KNEW THE LAW WAS ON THEIR SIDE, THAT THE COUNTY IS SUPPOSED TO FUND EDUCATION ANDSUPP IF THE COUNTY DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE OVERSIGHT OVER, YOU KNOW, HOW THEY SPEND THE MONEY AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND SO A LOT OF COUNTY LEADERS AND SOME COUNTY LEADERS SAID THAT CMS DID HAVE THEIR DUCKS IN A ROW WHEN THEY WENT IN THERE.

THE COUNTY IS SAYING THAT WE WANT TO AND WE'VE GOT ACCOUNTABILITY.

WE GOT TRANSPARENCY OUT OF THIS DEAL AS WELL.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE MEDIATION AGREEMENT THAT CMS MUST BE MORE FORTHCOMING AND THEY HAVE TO HAVE TEST SCORES ON THEIR WEBSITE.

THAT'S WHY CMS IS GIVING MORE MONEY TO UPDATE ITS WEBSITE SO THAT INFORMATION CAN BE STORED ON THAT.

ALSO, THEY ARE OBLIGATED TO MEET WITH COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND FACILITATE A MEETING SO THEY CAN OUTLINE THE PLAN, OUTLINE THE GOALS SO EVERYBODY WILL BE ON THE SAME PAGE GOING FORWARD.

BUT THE MAIN THING IS THAT WILL BLACK STUDENTS, WILL THEY BE BETTER IN THEIR ACADEMICS AFTER ALL IS SAID AND DONE.

THAT'S THE QUESTION THAT STILL REMAINS.

AND CAN WE DO BETTER BY THESE STUDENTS WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, ON THE MARGINS AND CAN THOSE STUDENTS, YOU KNOW, PICK UP ON THIS AND DO BETTER?

THAT'S REALLY WHAT IT GETS DOWN TO.

>> IT BOILS DOWN TO WHEN WE GET TO A CRISIS, THIS IS EVERYBODY'S RESPONSIBILITY.

IT'S NOT JUST THE SCHOOL BOARD.

THE COUNTY BUT IT'S THE CITY AND PARENTS AND CHURCHES.

THIS WEEK, I TALKED TO FORMER SCHOOL BOARD CHURCH MARY MCCRAY AND SHE WROTE A LETTER TO THE BLACK POLITICAL CAUCUS IN I CHARLOTTE SAYING THAT WE NEED TO BE FOCUSED ON OPPORTUNITY GAPS INSTEAD OF ACHIEVEMENT GAPS.

SHE SAYS ONCE WE TRY TO CLOSE THOSE OPPORTUNITY GAPS THAT MAYBE THE ACHIEVEMENT GAPS WILL GO UP.

OPPORTUNITY GAPS LIKE SOME STUDENTS IN THOSE CHALLENGE AREAS, THEY DON'T HAVE GOOD PARKS TO GO TO.

THEIR PARENTS ARE EITHER UNDEREMPLOYED OR UNEMPLOYED AND NO HEALTHCARE.

SHE BELIEVES ONCE WE START FOCUSING ON THOSE OPPORTUNITY GAPS, THEN THE LIFESTYLES AND THE ACADEMICS WILL RISE FOR THOSE STUDENTS >> I THOUGHT THAT ONE QUOTE FROM VILMA LEAKE AT THE MEETING WHERE THEY APPROVED THIS DEAL, COUNTY COMMISSIONER VILMA LEAKE, SHE SAIDEA IT'S TIME TO START FIGHTING FOR OUR CHILDRENRE AND NOT WORRYING SO MUCH ABOUT MONEY.

THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT, ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD,ORLD YOU, KNOW, UNLESS IT'S USED PROPERLY AND UNLESS IT'S USED EFFECTIVELY, IT WON'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM THAT WE WANT TO SOLVE HERE.

FOR NOW, WE HAVE A TRUCE IN THIS FEUD BETWEEN BOTH SIDES AND HOPEFULLY THAT TRUCE WILL RESULT LONG TERM IN BETTER SCHOOLS AND BETTER PERFORMANCE AMONG OUR STUDENTS.

UPTOWN SOME PROBLEMS REGARDING THE EPICENTER.

AGAIN, I CALLED IT EMPTY CENTER BECAUSE IT IS A GHOSTTOWN RIGHT NOW.

DANIELLE, IS THIS A COVID PROBLEM, A BAD BUSINESS PROBLEM, YOU KNOW, PERFECT STORM OF A LOT OF PROBLEMS COMBINED TOGETHER?

YOU KNOW, WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON WHY EPICENTER WHICH LOOKED HEALTHY AND VIBRANT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO NOW LOOKS DEAD IN THE WATER?

>> I THINK IT'S WHAT YOU SAID, A COMBINATION OF ALL THE FACTORS.

CERTAINLY COVID WAS THE DEFINITE.

I THINK MAYBE HALF OF THE BUSINESSES ARE OPEN NOW.

EVEN OVER A YEAR LATER AND OF COURSE, THERE WERE CONCERNS ABOUT CRIME OVER THE YEARS AND SO I THINK THAT THIS IS REALLY KIND OF COME TO A HEAD NOW.

NOW THEY'RE LATE ON THIS PAYMENT AND HEADED TOWARD FORECLOSURE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WONDERING WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF THE EPICENTER UPTOWN.

THERE'S BEEN SPECULATION FOR YEARS.

I REMEMBER BEFORE COVID, YOU KNOW, WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THE ENTY CENTER?

ARE WE GOING TO REDEVELOP IT AND THINGS LIKE THAT?

I THINK IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS.

>> I WANT TO GO BACK.

IT HAS TO BE RIGHT FOR THE EPICENTER.

REMEMBER, THE EPICENTER WAS TOUTED AS THE PLACE TO BE AND IT WAS THE ATTRACTION TO BRING CON CONVENTIONS AND OTHER ACTIVITIES THERE TO CHARLOTTE BECAUSE BEFORE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE COMPLAINTED THAT THEREPL WAS NOTHING TO DO DOWNTOWN CHARLOTTE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE NOT COMING TO CHARLOTTE BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING TO DO.

NOW WE BUILD THIS EPICENTER AND IT WAS THE PLACE TO BE.

IT WAS THE PLACE FOR MILLENNIALS TO HANG OUT.

IT WAS LIKE THE SWAG.

WE HAD SWAG.

AND NOW WITH EPICENTER, YOU KNOW, FUTURE IN QUESTION,ST YOU KNOW, MANY PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED AND BUSINESS LEADERS ARE CONCERNED, POLITICIANS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT BECAUSE CAN YOU IMAGINE AS WE OPEN BACK UP, YOU KNOW, YOU SEE AN EMPTY BUILDING, EMPTY SPACE THERE AND IT COULD BE AN EYESORE.

MANY PEOPLE ARE PRAYING THAT SOMEBODY WILL COME AND BRING IT OUT OF FORECLOSURE AND TRY TOSURE BRING SOME NEW LIFE L TO THATIF SO WE CAN CONTINUE TO HAVE OUR FLAG IN CHARLOTTE.

>> WELL, A COUPLE OF POINTS.

JEFF, YOU AND I HAVE BEEN AROUND PROBABLY THE LONGEST HERE L AND REMEMBER CITY FAIR, UPTOWN MANY YEARS AGO.

THERE WAS A DEVELOPMENT, ESSENTIALLY TRYING TO DO THE VERY SAME THING.

THIS WAS LONG BEFORE THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE LIVING IN UPTOWN CHARLOTTE AND THE IDEA WAS TO ATTRACT PEOPLE UPTOWN FOR SHOPPING AND FOOD AND STUFF.

IT DID NOT WORK.

AND WE THOUGHT, OKAY, WE'VE MOVED AHEAD.

WE'RE TWO DECADES LATER, WE'VE GOT THE EPICENTER COMING IN.

THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE LIVING HERE.

AND AGAIN, I THINK THE FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION IS, WILL PEOPLE WHO MOSTLY LIVE IN THE SUBURBS GET THIS THEIR CAR, DRIVE DOWNTOWN, TRY TO FIND A PLACE TO WORK AND THAT'S NO SMALL FEAT SOMETIMES AND DO THE EPICENTER?

YEAH.

SOME WILL GET ON THE LIGHT RAIL WHICH STOPS RIGHT THERE.

AGAIN, THAT'S NOT THE MAJORITY.

THAT'S NOT ENOUGH TO KEEP IT GOING.

AND SO I'M NOT SURE THAT WE'RE READY YET FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY LIKE THATIK IN UPTOWN.

NOW THE OTHER FACTOR-- AND I DON'T THINK YOU CAN MINIMIZE THIS-- YOU KNOW, THE FACTOR THAT CAME UP ALREADY HERE.

YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A BUSINESSMAN WHO WAS SHOT JUST BY A FLUKE THING.

TWO KIDS FIGHTING WITH EACH OTHER.

ONE KID SHOOTS AND A BULLET GOES ACROSS THE STREET AND KILLS HIM.

AND THIS WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY.ID YOU KNOW, THERE HAVE BEEN PEOPLE WHO SUGGESTED THAT UPTOWN LOCATION IN PROXIMITY TO THE TRANSIT CENTER JUST MAKES A LOT OF PEOPLE FEEL UNSAFE.

YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT THE STATISTICS BEAR THAT OUT.

THAT'S THE PERCEPTION.

AND SO IT'S CHALLENGED IN THAT REGARD AS WELL SO THERE WERE A LOT OF THINGS GOING ON HERE.

COVID, THE PARKING SITUATION , THE RENAISSANCE FOR PEOPLE COULD TOMORROW DOWNTOWN TO EAT AND ENJOY THEMSELVES AS OPPOSED TO SOUTHPARK, BALLENTYNE OR IN THE NORTH END, I DON'T KNOW.

>> YEAH.

I WAS LOOKING AT THE NUMBERSUM ON THE EPICENTER.

IT'S DOWN TO 37% OCCUPIED RIGHT NOW.

THAT'S FROMUP 78% IN 2019.

AND 13 RESTAURANTS AND BARS CLOSED DURING COVID AND THEY NEVER REOPENED AT THE EPICENTER.

OBVIOUSLY, COVID WAS TOUGH ON EVERY RETAIL AND RESTAURANT TYPE BUSINESS.

BUT THE RED FLAG, I THINK, IS WHAT YOU MENTIONED, MARK.

YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF FOLKS WHO LIVE UPTOWN.

IF THESE 13 RESTAURANTS AND BARS CAN'T REOPEN WITH--- EVEN WITHOUT- THE BUSINESS FOLKS THAT COME IN AND OUT OF THE OFFICES EVERY DAY BECAUSE OF COVID, THOSE FOLKS LIVING UPTOWN, YOU THINK WOULD STILL BE, YOU KNOW, YOUR CUSTOMER BASE.

IT JUST MAKES YOU WONDER AND THAT ALL SEEMS SO NEW WITH EPICENTER.

IS IT TIME TO TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT?

OMET UPTOWN HAS CHANGED SO QUICKLY.

IT'S, LIKE YOU SAID, A DONUT HOLE THAT NEEDS TO BE IMPROVED IN ORDER TO KEEP THAT WHOLE AREA VIBRANT, I SUPPOSE.

>> YEAH.

I'M SORRY.

GO AHEAD, DANIELLE.

I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT YOU.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY UPTOWN HAS BEENPT PARTICULARLY HIT, I THINK, BY SMALL BUSINESS, THE CHALLENGES BROUGHT ON BY COVID TO SMALL BUSINESSES BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU WEREUSI SAYING.NG THE OFFICE WORKERS NOT RETURNING.

I THINKIN IT'S BEEN INTERESTING TO SEE HOW COMPANIES EVEN NOW ARE NOT NECESSARILY BRINGING PEOPLE BACK FIVE DAYS A WEEK.

I THINK THAT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TOA BE AN ISSUE IN THE LONG TERM IF YOU DON'T HAVE AS MANY OFFICE WORKERS IN A DAY.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR THOSE BUSINESSES?

>> IT MIGHT BE THE RIGHT-SIZING FOR A LOT OF BUSINESSES UPTOWN AS WE COME BACK FROM COVID.

WE'RE HEARING ABOUT FOUR-DAY WORK WEEKS TO HELP RETAIN WORKERS WHO MIGHT NOT WANT TO COME BACK TO THE OFFICE RIGHT AWAY.

>> RIGHT.

AND KEEP IN MIND, YOU KNOW, THE EPICENTER WAS NOT ONLY BUILT FOR THE PEOPLE OF CHARLOTTE BUT IT WAS ALSO BUILT FOR THE VISITORS, THE TOURISTS, CONVENTIONS,N PEOPLE WHOTI COME FOR THEIR CONVENTIONS AND ACTIVITIES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.CT PEOPLE WHO GO TO THE SPECTRUM ARENA AND THE CONVENTION CENTER AND THE NASCAR, THINGS LIKE THAT.

YOU KNOW, THE THEME WAS THAT WHEN YOU COME TO CHARLOTTE FOR AN EVENT OR FOR A CONVENTION, YOU CAN PARK YOUR CAR AT THE HOTEL AND IT'S A WALKABLE CITY.

YOU CAN WALK TO ANYWHERE.E.

IF YOU WANT TO WALK TO THE MOVIES AND WALK TO THE BOWLING ALLEY AND WALK TO GET SOMETHING TO EAT AND WALK TO SHOP.

THAT WAS THE DRAWING CARD.

I THINK THAT THE EPICENTER SERVED TWO PURPOSES FOR PEOPLE WHOR LIVED DOWNTOWN BUT ALSO MORE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO COME AND THE CONVENTION AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

WHEN THE CONVENTIONS WENT AWAY DURING COVID, THAT WAS PART OF THE EPICENTER'S BUSINESS.

>> THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

YEAH.

I GUESS EXCEPT FOR THE HOTELS UPTOWN, MAYBE NO BUSINESSES WOULD BE MORE DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THE DROP-OFF AND CONVENTION BUSINESS THAN THOSE EPICENTER RESTAURANTS THAT REALLY DEPENDED ON A LOT OF THAT CONVENTION BUSINESS.

WE'LL SEE WHAT THE NEXT STEP IS FOR EITHER THE CURRENT OWNERS OR WHOEVER THE FUTURE OWNERS MIGHT BE.

THE EPICENTER IS STILL OPEN.

THERE'S NOT MUCH OPEN TO BEGIN WITH TO I HAVES KNIT THE FIRST PLACE RIGHT NOW.

THE GOVERNOR WAS UPTOWN THIS WEEK AS WELL.

AGAIN, PUSHING FOLKS TOWARD GETTING THAT VACCINE BECAUSE OF NORTH CAROLINA'S GENERAL RECORD BEHIND OTHER STATES AND MECKLENBURG PRETTY MUCH LIKE THE REST OF THE STATE WERE NOT-- WE'RE NOT REALLY WHERE WE NEED TO BE WHEN IT COMES TO EFFECTIVELY VACCINATING THE POPULATION TO RESIST THE VIRUS WE KNOW AND THE VIRUS WE DON'T, THAT VARIANT THAT SEEMS TO BE ON THE RISE RIGHT NOW.

>> YEAH.

IT WAS HE WAS ALMOST RIGHT THERE AT THE EPICENTER.

YOU KNOW, WE HAD THE MASS VACS NATIONS.

THEY ROLLED THEM OUT.

WE TALKED ABOUT THIS.

IT WAS HUGELY SUCCESSFUL, I THINK, IN TERMS OF HOW IT GOT PEOPLE IN AND GOT PEOPLE OUT, GOT PEOPLE VACCINATED.

I WENT TO ONE OF THOSE MASS VACCINATIONS.

IT WAS IMPRESSIVE.

NOW WE'RE TO THE POINT WHERE AROUND THE MARGINS, YOU'RE TRYING TO GO DOOR TO DOOR LITERALLY IN SOME NEIGHBORHOODS.

YOU'RE TRYING TO OFFER PEOPLE THE INCENTIVES THAT THE STATE IS OFFERING, A COUPLE MILLION DOLLAR PRIZES , BUT BOY, IT'S TOUGH AND.

VARIANT IS REAL AND THE NUMBERS ARE GOING BACK UP, MARGINALLY, GRADUALLY BUT THEY ARERG GOING BACK AND I THINK WE DO NEED TO BE CONCERNED.

THE DEATHS IN MECKLENBURG COUNTY FROM MEC COVID, ACCORDING IT A STORY THAT THE LEDGER DID THIS WEEK TWO WEEKS DURING JUNE THERE WERE NO DEATHS AT ALL DUE TO COVID.

THAT'S A MILESTONE IN FIGHTING THIS PANDEMIC.

AND NOW IT'S THE UNVACCINATED FOLKS AND WITH THE VARIANT GROWING, FOLKS WHO DON'T GET THE VACCINES ARE AT THE MOST RISK.

I GUESS THEY ALWAYS HAVEHA BEEN AT THEV MOST RISK.

>> PEOPLE THINK IT WON'T HAPPEN TO ME.

>> IT'S A MORE CONTAGIOUS VAIR CURRANT AND THAT'S THE CONCERN FROM HEALTH OFFICIALS IS HOW QUICKLY IT CAN SPREAD AMONG THE UNVACCINATED POPULATION.

>> THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT GOING DOOR TO DOOR IN SOME OF THOSE COMMUNITIES THAT AREH REALLY LAGGING BEHIND.

I KNOW DEDRICK YOU HAVE DONE REPORTING ON THAT.

ANY SENSE OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S KEEPING FOLKS FROM GETTING THE SHOT?

>> YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, THINGS VARY.

ONE THING OCCURRED THAT IT HAD NOT-- THE VACCINE HAS NOT FULLY BEEN VETTED.

IT'S AN EMERGENCY USE AUTHORIZATION.

SOME PEOPLE WANT TO ADD MORE-- MORE INFORMATION, MORE DATA ABOUT HOW THIS VACCINE WOULD WORK LONG TERM.

SOME PEOPLE JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, HAVE RELIGIOUS BELIEFS THAT THEY DON'T THINK THAT THEY WANT TO ENTER-- PUT THEIR THAT VACCINE IN THEIR BODY AND SOME PEOPLE SAY IF I HAVEN'T GOTTEN IT NOW, AND I PROBABLY WON'T GET IT AND VARIABLES AND A LOT OF WHAT PEOPLE ARE THINKING AND PEOPLE SAY THAT REPUBLICANS THAT THEY'RE THE ONES,NE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE THE VACCINE.

YOU KNOW, THAT IS AMERICA.

AMERICA IS DIVERSE.

AMERICA HAS DIFFERENT IDEAS AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND ATT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU ARERE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY THE PRICE AND PAY THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE CHOICES YOU MAKE.

>> MARK?

>> DEDRICK, I THINK, TOO, VACCINES ARE NEW.

VACCINES HAVE BEEN REQUIRED FOR KIDS GOING TO SCHOOL FOR YEARS.

NOW THERE ARE ALWAYS A FEW WHO MOSTLY FOR RELIGIOUS REASONS DON'T DO IT, FOR THE MOST T PART, PEOPLE GET-- HAVE A THE GOEN THOSEVE GET- VACCINES.

I HAVE VACCINES AS A KID ALL THE TIME.

K THERE'S SOMETHING DIFFERENT HERE AND WE HAVE TO GET THE VACCINE BECAUSE WE WERE AND WE'RE READY TO GO.

NOW I THINK THE CULTURE WE'RE IN, EVERYBODY NOW HAS THEIR-- I'M GOING TO MAKE MY OWN DECISION.Y WELL, YES YOU ARE.

THINK ABOUT THE BIGGER PICTURE.

THINK ABOUT EVERYBODY ELSE.

WE DON'T THINK ABOUT THE COLLECTIVE GOOD, I DON'T THINK AND AS MUCH AS WE THINK ABOUTS M OURSELVES FIRST.

THE ME FIRST GENERATION AND FRANKLY, I THINK THAT'S UNFORTUNATE.

WE DO NEED TO THINK ABOUT THE BIGGER PICTURE AND HOW I FIT INTO THIS ANDR MY RESPONSIBILITY, END OF SPEECH.

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S-- >> GO AHEAD.

>> IT'S SO INTERESTING THAT WITH THIS VACCINE, THAT THIS ISIS, FREE.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY I FOR THIS HEALTH CARE AND IT'S SO ACCESSIBLE.

IT'S AVAILABLE AT GAMES, AT MALLS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

FOR PEOPLE TO STILL DENY THAT FREE HEALTHCARE, IT'S JUST AMAZING, AMAZING TO ME.

AS MARK SAID, WE ARE IN A DIFFERENT TIME.

WE'RE IN A DIFFERENT SPACE.

AND PEOPLE WANT TO BE AWARE OF THINGS LIKE THAT AND TAKE A STANCE, I GET THAT.

IT SEEMS LIKE WITH THIS VACCINE THAT IS SO AVAILABLE THAT PEOPLE STILL DENY IT.

>> AS YOU MENTIONED, TOO, IT'S AT BOTHE END OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM WHERE WE SEE THE RELUCTANCE THERE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU SOLVE THAT PROBLEM.

IT'S NOT JUST ONE PROBLEM.

IT'S A PROBLEM DIFFERENT DEPENDING ON WHO YOU ARE.

THEY KEEP COMING TO CHARLOTTE.

THEY KEEP MAKING STATEMENTS AND HAVING THESE POP-UP CLINICS AND YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL TAKE ANOTHER RISE IN THE VACCINE-- EXCUSE ME, IN THE VIRUS TO PROMPT PEOPLE.

RIGHT NOW, WE'RE AT A PLATEAU AND THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY A GOOD THING FROM A HEALTH PERSPECTIVE.

IT'S NOT REALLY IN OUR BACKYARD UNC AND CHAPEL HILL HAD ITS-- [ SIGHS ] ISSUES THIS WEEK WITH, YOU KNOW, OFFERING TENURE AND THEN NOT OFFERING TENURE AND OFFERING IT AGAIN TO A PROFESSOR IN THE CHAIR OF RACE AND JOURNALISM.

DANIELLE,RNALIS YOU'RE A UNC GRADUATE IN THE JOURNALISMMMMMM SCHOOL.

THIS IS KIND OFMM-- I GUESS IT HITS CLOSE FOR YOU.

GUE DO YOU WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS L SITUATION WITH NICOLE HANNAH JONES?

>> YES.

EARLIER THIS WEEK, NICOLEIC HANNAH JONES, A RENOWNED JOURNALIST FROM THE "NEW YORK TIMES", SAID SHE'S NOT GOING TO TAKE UNC'S OFFER OF TENURE FOR THIS KNIGHT CHAIR POSITION.

INSTEAD, SHE WILL SET UP A NEWS CENTER AT HOWARD UNIVERSITY.

I THINK SOME IMPORTANT CONTEXT, OF COURSE, THE TENURE DECISION WAS POSTPONED.

SHE WAS, INSTEAD, OFFERED A FIVE-YEAR CONTRACT, ALL OF PREVIOUS PROFESSORS WHO HELD THIS ROLE HAD TENURE.

SO SHE BASICALLY MADE THIS STATEMENT SAYING THAT SHE DIDN'T WANT S TO BE-- SHE DIDN'T WANT TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR FIXING THE PROBLEMS AT UNC AND YOU KNOW, WANTED TO GO SOMEWHERE THAT WAS A SPACE THAT VALUED HER ESSENTIALLY.

I THINK THE LARGER QUESTIONS AND THERE'S SO MANY QUESTIONS.

I MEAN, ON THE ONE HAND, ARE STUDENTS OF COLOR AND FACULTY OF COLOR VALUED AT UNC?

YOU HAD THE STUDENT BODY PRESIDENT SAYING IF YOU ARE A STUDENT OF COLOR, LOOK ELSEWHERE.

I MEAN, THAT'S A PRETTY BIG STATEMENTTTY TO MAKE AND PRETTY DRAMATIC FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE TO HEAR, I THINK.

AND YOU HAD A RENOWNED CHEMIST WHO WAS SUPPOSED TO COME TO UNC WHO ENDED UP TURNING DOWN THE OFFER BECAUSE OF THIS SITUATION.

I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER THE SCHOOL CAN RETAIN AND RECRUIT DIVERSE CANDIDATES AND DIVERSE STUDENTS.

>> YOU KNOW THIS IS A TEACHABLE MESSAGE.

PEOPLE SAY GO WHERE YOU'RE CELEBRATED AND NOT TOLERATED.

ITE THINK THAT'S NICOLE DID.

SHE IS GOING SOMEWHERE WHERE SHE'S CELEBRATED AND NOT TOLERATED.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS, YOU KNOW, SHE'S TAKING MONEY WITH HER, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THREE ORGANIZATIONS AND AN ANONYMOUS DONOR HAVE NOWOW CONTRIBUTED ABOUT $20 MILLION TO HER EFFORT.

SO THAT MONEY IS GOING WITH HER TO HOWARD UNIVERSITY WHERE THAT MONEY COULD HAVE BEEN RIGHT HERE AT UNC CHAPEL HILL.

IN HER STATEMENT, SHE IS SAYING THAT SHE WANT-- SHE THINKS THAT THE UNIVERSITY SHOULD APOLOGIZE TO THE STUDENTS WHO PROTESTED ON HER BEHALF.

SHE ALSO SAYS THAT THE UNIVERSITY SHOULD RELEASE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT WHY SHE WAS DENIED.

I DON'T THINK THIS IS GOING TO GO AWAY.

IO THINK THE STUDENTS THERE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO BRING THIS UP.

I JUST TALKED TO A STUDENT WHO IS THERE-- WHO IS A STUDENT THERE AND I GUESS THAT THERE WAS SOME-- AN EVENT THAT HAPPENED WHEN STUDENTS WERE PROTESTING THE DECISION AND OFFICES THERE AND THEY PUSHED US IN AND THINGS LIKE THAT I'M TOLD THAT THERE COULD BE ANOTHERNO PROTEST TO TALK ABOUT HOW STUDENTS WERE TREATED AS THEY WERE PROTESTING FOR NICOLE HANNAH JONES.

YES.

THERE'S A LOTS.

GOING ON.

>> YEAH.

NOT EVERYBODY AGREES WITH NICOLE HANNAH JONES HAS WRITTEN 1619 PROJECT ABOUT SLAVERY.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT THAT ANOTHER ISSUE IS SHOULD DONORS INTERFERE IN HIRING DECISIONS AND THIS WAS A DECISION TO OFFER TENURE.

A BIG DONOR TO THE JOURNALISM DEPARTMENT GOT INVOLVED AND TENUREEP DISAPPEARED AND IT CAME BACK.

A LOT OF MOVES PIECES IN THIS PUZZLE.S NONE OF IT MAKES THE UNIVERSITY LOOKS WELL IT WILL TAKE TIME AND EFFORT ON UNC'S PART TO DO JUST THAT.

DOWN IN ROCK HILL, WE HAD THE RELEASE OF BODY CAM VIDEO AND THE FIRING OF A POLICE OFFICER, THE CHARGING OF A POLICE OFFICER AND MAYBE THE MOST INTERESTING THING, THE APOLOGY FROM THE POLICE OFFICER DOWN IN ROCK HILL AT THE SAME PRESS CONFERENCE TO THE VICTIM IN THISHE CASE, THE PERSON THAT HE'S ALLEGED TO HAVE ASSAULTED DURING AN ARREST.

MARK, THIS IS NOT YOUR TYPICAL CASE LIKE THIS, IS IT?

S >> AGAIN, THIS IS A CASE WHERE POLICE WENT TO ARREST A YOUNG MAN AND HE GOT COMBATIVE, AND THEN HIS BROTHER CAME IN AND, YOU KNOW, TRIED TO INTERVENE, CALMNT THINGS DOWN, YOU KNOW,OW GOT INVOLVED AND THEN THIS OTHER DETECTIVE SHOWED UP AND HE PULLED UP AND SAW WHAT WAS GOING ON AND HE WENT AFTER THE BROTHER.

PUSHED HIM TO THE GROUND AND IN THE END, THAT WAS THE ASSAULT.

THAT WAS WHAT HE GOT-- HE'S THE GUY WHO GOT FIRED.

IT WASN'T THE INITIAL OFFICERS INVOLVED WITH THE FIRST BROTHER, AND HE WAS THE ONE WHO THEN-- HE'S LIKE THE PLAYER WHO COMES OFF THEHE BENCH IN THE FIGHT.

HE GOT UP AND APOLOGY POLL GUISED AND SAID I JUMPED TO A CONCLUSION WHEN I GOT THERE.

YOU KNOW, AND I APPRECIATE HIS CANDOR, HIS HONESTY AND I THINK THAT OF REACTION HAPPENED FOREVER.

YOU SEE THIS FELLOW OFFICER WHO THEY PERCEIVED TO BE IN DANGER AND THEY, YOU KNOW, GET INVOLVED FIRST AND ASK QUESTIONS LATER.

AND SO IT'S REMARKABLE THAT THE CHIEF R BASICALLY DREW THE LINE IN THE SAND RIGHTIG THERE.

AS YOU SEE, THAT OFFICER GOT THERE AND SAID I APOLOGIZE.

THE BROTHER WHO HE ATTACKED WAS AT THE NEWS CONFERENCE AS WELL.

I HOPE WE ALL LEARN FROM THAT, RIGHT?

HE CERTAINLY SAID HE LEARNED AND I HOPE OTHER OFFICERS AND OTHER PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITYMU LEARN THAT, A, IT'S POSSIBLE TO MAKE MISTAKES.

B, IT'S POSSIBLE TO OWN THEM AND, C, IT'S POSSIBLE TO FORGIVE.

>> IT'S BEEN A COUPLE OF TOUGH WEEKS IN ROCK HILL BECAUSE OF THIS.

AGAIN, IT IS NICE TO SEE IT DOESN'T CHANGE WHAT HAPPENED, BUT IT DOES CHANGE HOW BOTH SIDES VIEW EACH OTHER GOING FORWARD AND IN PARTICULAR WITH POLICE HAVING A STRESSFUL RELATIONS WITH A LOT OF NEIGHBORHOODS AND A LOTOO OF NEIGHBORS AND A LOT OF COMMUNITIES THESE DAYS.

A COUPLE OF QUICK THINGS REALLY QUICKLY.

BALLENTYNE, GOOD-BYE GOLF COURSE.

HELLO PARK.

IT'S A PRIVATE PARK.

IT'S KIND OF NICE THAT THEY'RE OPENING UP A LARGE SWATH OF LAND IN AN AREA THAT'S BEEN NOT OPENED TO THE PUBLIC IN THE PAST.

KIND OF PARTNERSHIP WE LIKE TO SEE GOING FORWARD IN PLACES LIKE THAT.

>> YEAH.

ABSOLUTELY.

AND BALLENTYNE REIMAGINED.

THERE'S-- YOU KNOW, YOU CAN PLAY IN THE SAND TRAPS AND KIDS CAN PLAY IN THE SAND AND THOSE PONDS AND NOW FISHING PONDS, CATCH AND RELEASE, AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

YOUU CAN WALK AND THERE WILL BE FESTIVALS AND FARMERS MARKETS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

THE RESPONSE IS WELL.

I GUESS WE TALKED TO THE OWNER OF NORTHWOOD OFFICE AND WE TALKED TO A PUBLIC RELATIONS PEOPLE AND WHEN THEY HAD AN EVENT LIKE 5,000 PEOPLE CAME OUT THE THIRD TIME AND THE SECOND TIME THAT DOUBLED WHEN THEY HAD A (INAUDIBLE).

THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S URBAN AND IT'S WALKABLE AND THAT PEOPLE CAN GET MORE BANG FOR THEIR BUCK WHEN THEY LIVE OUTSIDE OF CHARLOTTE, THAT THEY HAVE SOME SPACE AND GREEN SPACE WHERE THEY CAN WALK AND JUST HAVE A GOOD TIME AND IT CAN BE MORE INCLUSIVE INSTEAD OF EXCLUSIVE.

BECAUSE YOU HAD-- NOTOT EVERYBODY PLAYS GOLF.

THEREFORE, OPEN IT UP SO EVERYBODY CAN WALK AND EVERYBODY CAN, YOU KNOW, JUST RIDE A BIKE.

>> WE'RE OUT OF TIME.

THAT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA.

LET'S GO RIGHTA.

NOW.

[LAUGHTER] >> YES.

I'M THERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

ALWAYS A GOOD DISCUSSION.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AT HOME AS WELL.

AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT TIME RIGHT HERE ON OFF THEHE RECORD.

[ THEME MUSIC ]