>> THIS WEEK ON OFF THE RECORD, CMS BACKTRACKS ON BACKPACKS.

INSTEAD OF AN ACTION, HOW ABOUT AN AUCTION?

AND TENSION AGAIN BETWEEN SCHOOL LEAD PERCENT BLACK LEADERS.

CITY HALL AND THE HORNETS MAKE A DEAL.

NEW PRACTICE CENTER, BETTER SPECTRUM CENTER, BUT WHAT HAPPENS TO THE TRANTSTATION CENTER?

AND MORE TRANSIT NEWS.

MILLIONS MORE FOR THE GOLD LINE AND A BILLION DOLLAR CHANGE POSSIBLE FOR THE SILVER LINE AND A CHANGE IN GOP GUN POLITICS AS NORTH CAROLINA'S TWO REPUBLICAN SENATORS SAY YES TO A DEAL ON GUN CONTROL IN WASHINGTON.

PLUS FALLING FURTHER BEHIND IN AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND IS IT SOUTH END VERSUS UPTOWN OR SOUTH END PART OF UPTOWN?

LOTS TO TALK ABOUT NEXT ON PBS CHARLOTTE.

[ THEME MUSIC ] >> FROM OUR PBS CHARLOTTE STUDIOS IN HISTORIC PLAZA MIDWOOD, I'M JEFF SONNIER AND WE'RE OFF THE RECORD TALKING ABOUT THE STORIES YOU'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS WEEK AND IF YOU WATCH THE NEWS, READ THE NEWS AND LISTEN TO THE NEWS, WELL, YOU WILL RECOGNIZE THE NAMES AND FACES AROUND OUR VIRTUAL TABLE, ELI PORTILA, STEVE CRUMP FROM WBTV AND CHRISTINA BOWLING FROM THE CHARLOTTE LEDGER.

THANKS FOR JOINING US, GANG.

YOU CAN JOIN THE CONVERSATION AT HOME.

E MAIL US YOUR QUESTIONS COMMENTS TO OFFTHERECORD@WTVI.ORG.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT BACKPACKS IN A MOMENT.

I WANT TO TALK TALK ABOUT THE TENSION BETWEEN CMS AND THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN FAITH ALLIANCE AND THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT LOW-PERFORMING SCHOOLS IN LOW INCOME AND MINORITY NEIGHBORHOODS BUT THE FAITH ALLIANCE DOESN'T SEEM TO HAVE MUCH FAITH IN CMS LEADERSHIP MAYBE NOT BEFORE AND NOT NEW EITHER.

STEVE, DO YOU WANT TO START US OFF THIS WEEK BETWEEN THE BEEF BETWEEN THE NEW SUPERINTENDENT AND THE FAITH ALLIANCE?

>> YEAH.

I THINK WHAT IT KIND OF COMES DOWN TO, JEFF, IS WHEN HUGH HANIBAL GOT TO THIS GROUP IT WAS A GET TO KNOW YOU, LET'S SEE IF WE CAN WORK SOME THINGS OUT ESPECIALLY WITH THE DEPARTURE RECENTLY OF SUPERINTENDENT EARNEST WINSTON, AND IT TURNED INTO ANYTHING BUT THAT.

IN MANY REGARDS, IT ENDED UP BEING A GRIPE SESSION FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND.

HANIBAL BECAME FRUSTRATED AND WALKED OUT.

YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE HISTORY AS WELL AS SOME OF THE DIALOGUE THAT'S HAPPENED OVER THE YEAR AND YOU NAILED IT YOURSELF, YOU TALK ABOUT THE YOUNGER FORMING SCHOOLS AND THERE'S BEEN THIS OVERRIDING ISSUE IN THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY HOW DO WE IMPROVE GRADUATION RATES?

HOW DO WE IMPROVE TEST SCORES?

AND YOU KNOW, WHEN HANIBAL CAME IN AND I GUESS THE PLATE WAS ALREADY FULL.

NOT ONLY THAT, YOU HAD THE DEPARTURE OF AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN SUPERINTENDENT JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO, BEING EARNEST WINSTON, YOU HAD A KEG OF DYNAMITE THAT HE WALKED INTO AND AS MUCH AS SOME OF THE INITIATIVES THAT WE HAVE SEEN GOING BACK SEVERAL YEARS AGO WHERE WE HAD MILLIONS OF DOLLARS POURED INTO PROJECT LIFT WHICH DIDN'T NECESSARILY BEAR THE FRUIT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO.

SO WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE BLOWUP, WITH THE ATTITUDES AND YOU KNOW, THE CONVERSATIONS BECAME FRAYED IT WASN'T NECESSARILY A ONE-TRICK PONY.

THAT HAD PRETTY MUCH BEEN IN THE MAKING FOR SOME TIME.

>> YEAH.

WE HEARD FROM VILMA LEAKE THIS WEEK TALKING ABOUT THE CMS BUDGET AMONG THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS UNWILLING TO GIVE THEM MORE MONEY UNTIL, AGAIN, THEY SEE MORE RESULTS.

VILMA HAS ALIGNED WITH THE FAITH ALLIANCE AS WELL.

IT'S A NEW SUPERINTENDENT BUT RELATIVELY NEW GROUP, I SUPPOSE, BUT THESE ARE OLD PROBLEMS, PROBLEMS THAT HAVE REALLY BEEN AROUND CMS FOR DECADES, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

I THINK YOU CAN GO ALL THE WAY BACK WHERE YOU CAN THINK JOHN MURPHY.

>> RIGHT.

[LAUGHTER] >> NOT AS FAR BACK AS JAY ROBINSON BECAUSE I THINK THIS COMMUNITY WAS STILL TRYING TO DEFINE ITSELF AFTER BUSING AND DR. JAY SET UP SHOP HERE.

YOU LOOK AT JUST THE WHOLE LIST OF SUPERINTENDENTS WERE, IT'S KIND OF THE SAME TONE, SAME CHOIR SHEET, DIFFERENT GROUP WHERE YOU HAD, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY JOHN MURPHY TO PETER TO JIM PUGHSLEY AND THERE SEEMS TO BE THIS WHOLE, YOU KNOW, SCENARIO OF CAN THEY GET IT RIGHT, AND THE QUESTION THEN BECOMES WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO GET IT RIGHT?

IS IT BRICKS AND MORTAR?

IS IT ACCESS TO SOME OF THE AMENITIES THAT YOU HAVE WHERE YOU HAVE SOME INNER CITY SCHOOLS THAT ARE SUFFERING FROM A LOT OF THE ISSUES WHERE THEY DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE THE AMENITIES THAT YOU FIND IN SUBURBAN SCHOOLS.

AGAIN, AS I SAID, IT'S NOT A ONE-TRICK PONY.

IT'S A MULTILEVEL CONCERN AND PROBLEM.

>> ANOTHER CONCERN THAT THE SCHOOL SYSTEM HAS RIGHT NOW IS SECURITY.

OBVIOUSLY, WE'RE OUT OF SCHOOL FOR THE SUMMER BUT THEY STILL HAD TO DEAL WITH THAT WHOLE ISSUE OF THE BACKPACKS THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO HELP SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF GUNS IN HIGH SCHOOLS AND REALLY NEVER GOT DISTRIBUTED AT ALL BECAUSE OF OTHER PROBLEMS.

CHRISTINA, DO YOU WANT TO PICK UP WHERE STEVE LEFT OFF?

>> SURE.

YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY SECURITY WAS ONE OF THE OVERARCHING CHALLENGES THAT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT FACED IN THE LAST SCHOOL YEAR.

THEY ADDED METAL DETECTORS TO HIGH SCHOOLS AND OF COURSE, VERY FAMOUSLY AND ORDERED I THINK IT WAS 46,000 BACKPACKS WITH THE GOAL IT WOULD BE VISIBLE IF A STUDENT BROUGHT A HANDGUN OR ARMS TO SCHOOL.

THEY WERE ORDERED AT HOME DEPOT OR OFFICE DEPOT.

THEY SPENT $440,000.

THEY ARRIVED AND WHEN CMS STAFF WENT TO UNPACK THEM, THEY SAW THAT THERE WAS A TAG SAYING THAT THEY COULD CONTAIN CEAG CARCINOGENS AND THEY KEPT THEM AT A STORAGE WAREHOUSE SINCE FEBRUARY AND THEY HAVE BEEN SITTING WITH EVERYONE WONDERING WHAT HAPPENED TO THESE PLASTIC BACKPACKS.

WE GOT THE ANSWER THIS WEEK.

THEY'RE GOING TO AUCTION THEM OFF AND SO YEAH, THE SAGA OF THE PLASTIC BACKPACKS IS STILL TO BE DETERMINED.

>> I THINK TO A BIG DEGREE, BOTH OF THESE ISSUES KIND OF GET AT THE ONGOING JUST DYSFUNCTION THAT WE'RE SEEING HERE AND YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CLEAR PLASTIC BACKPACKS AND THE CMS SUPERINTENDENT'S RELATIONSHIP AND HOW HE ALLEGEDLY TREATED A GROUP OF LEADERS AND WE'RE TALKING LESS ABOUT THE UNDERLYING ISSUES, GUNS IN SCHOOLS AND THESE TERRIBLE ACHIEVEMENT GAPS THAT HAVE OPENED UP AND WIDENED EVEN MORE DURING COVID.

IN A LOT OF WAYS, THESE CONVERSATIONS REMIND ME OF EACH OTHER WHERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUES THAT ARE DYSFUNCTIONAL AND YOU KNOW, ONE STEP REMOVED FROM THE CORE ISSUES THAT YOU REALLY HOPE THE COMMUNITY WOULD FOCUS ON AND MAYBE FIND SOME SOLUTIONS TO.

>> YEAH.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE LITTLE THINGS LIKE BACKPACKS, I GUESS THEY ARE LITTLE THINGS AND THE BIG THINGS LIKE LOW-PERFORMING SCHOOLS AND IT COMES BACK TO CONFIDENCE AND COMPETENCE.

I THINK A LOT OF PARENTS AND WHETHER YOU HAVE KIDS IN THE SCHOOL OR NOT, IF YOU ARE A TAXPAYER, YOU JUST WONDER, DO THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING?

DO THEY HAVE A PLAN?

IS THAT PLAN GOING TO BE EFFECTIVE MOVING FORWARD?

I THINK THOSE ARE QUESTIONS THAT THE NEW SUPERINTENDENT WILL HAVE TO ANSWER.

THE OLD SUPERINTENDENT DIDN'T ANSWER AND THE SCHOOL BOARD WHICH IS THE SAME SCHOOL BOARD FOR BOTH, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, YOU FEEL LIKE WE'RE SPINNING OUR WHEELS HERE AND NOT REALLY GETTING ANSWERS TO THE REAL QUESTIONS, THE UNDERLYING QUESTIONS THAT WE ALL WANT.

>> JEFF, THE POINT THAT YOU RAISED, THOUGH, AND THIS GOES BACK FOR YEARS NOT JUST THIS CURRENT ADMINISTRATION, THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN A TUG-OF-WAR AS IT RELATES TO SCHOOL FUNDING BETWEEN THE COUNTY COMMISSION AND THE SCHOOL BOARD, ITSELF.

I MEAN, THE SCHOOL BOARD IS NOT NECESSARILY SOME TAXING AUTHORITY AND EVERY YEAR, THEY HAVE TO GO TO THE COUNTY COMMISSION AND SAY, HEY, HERE'S WHAT WE WANT.

HERE'S WHAT WE NEED.

HERE'S OUR WISH LIST.

CAN YOU DO IT?

SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, IT GOES TO THAT CONTROVERSY.

QUITE OBVIOUSLY, WHAT WE'VE SEEN UNFOLD OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS, THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME TENSION THERE.

>> YEAH.

WE'RE GOING TO HEAR ABOUT THAT BUDGET, I THINK, NEXT WEEK FROM THE COUNTY COMMISSION.

WE REMEMBER THERE WAS AN ISSUE ABOUT WITHHOLDING DOLLARS LAST YEAR.

WE'LL SEE IF THAT COMES BACK THIS YEAR.

SCHOOLS, BY THE WAY, ARE OUT FOR THE SUMMER AND BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO OUR NEXT SUBJECT, I WANT TO TOUCH BASE WITH YOU, CHRISTINA, ABOUT, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF FAMILIES AND A LOT OF KIDS OFF TO SUMMER CAMP AND THE LEDGER DID A STORY ABOUT AN UNFORTUNATE 3 SERIOUS ACCIDENT.

ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR SUMMER CAMPIN CHARLOTTE RIGHT?

>> RIGHT.

THIS HAPPENED AT CAMP THUNDERBIRD WHICH IS YMCA CAMP ON THE SHORES OF LAKE WYLIE.

LAST YEAR WE LEARNED THERE WAS A 12-YEAR-OLD GIRL WHO FELL OFF A ZIP LINE PLATFORM THERE AT CAMP THUNDERBIRD.

A LOT OF DETAILS ARE UNKNOWN.

THE YMCA HASN'T SAID MUCH OR ANYTHING ABOUT HOW IT HAPPENED.

WE BELIEVE THAT THE GIRL IS STILL ALIVE.

WE DON'T KNOW HER CONDITION.

THEY JUST HAVEN'T SAID MUCH AND WE'VE HEARD FROM PARENTS OF COUNSELORS AND CAMPERS WHO ARE CONCERNED AND JUST DON'T REALLY-- WOULD LIKE MORE INFORMATION.

THIS IS A CAMP THAT HUNDREDS OF KIDS GO TO EACH WEEK ALL SUMMER LONG.

SOME STAY OVERNIGHT.

SOME GO FOR THE DAY.

BUT FOR SURE, IT'S A LOT OF IMPORTANCE TO A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND HERE.

>> SUMMER CAMP IS A GREAT EXPERIENCE FOR SO MANY KIDS BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, ACCIDENTS CAN HAPPEN AND YOU JUST LOOK FOR MORE INFORMATION WHEN YOU ARE A PARENT TO KNOW THAT YOUR KIDS ARE SAFE.

LET'S CHANGE GEARS AND TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE DEAL BETWEEN THE HORN PETS CITY HALL.

HORNETS ARE IN THE OFFSEASON RIGHT NOW AND I GUESS COULD YOU CALL THIS A WIN FOR THE TEAM.

AND WHETHER IT'S A WIN FOR THE TAXPAYERS REMAINS TO BE SEEN.

DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT?

>> SURE, THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVED $215 MILLION IN IMPROVEMENTS TO THE SPECTRUM CENTER EARLIER THIS WEEK AND ESSENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, THE IMPROVEMENTS OF HVAC, ENTRANCES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND THE BIG THING PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IS THE NEW TRAINING FACILITY, WHICH WOULD BE LOCATED AT WHERE THE CURRENT CHARLOTTE TRANSPORTATION CENTER IS OR NEXT TO THE ARENA IF THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN.

BUT THE LARGER PICTURE IS THE CITY HAS BEEN TRYING TO REDEVELOP THE TRANSIT CENTER FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS NOW AND THERE'S BEEN SORT OF A PUSH AND THEY ARE WORKING WITH TWO DEVELOPERS AND THERE'S BEEN A PUSH TO GET OFFICES AND RETAIL AND THINGS LIKE THAT IN THAT AREA, SO THIS REALLY SORT OF ADDS TO THAT DEVELOPMENT PLAN AND WHAT IT WOULD DO IS ADD THE TRAINING FACILITY TO THAT PLAN FOR THE TRANSIT REDEVELOPMENT AND THEN TO REMOVE BUS SYSTEM THAT IS STRUGGLING AND I THINK THIS PROJECT ILLUSTRATES THE WAY THAT THE CITY SEES TRANSIT CAN OFTEN BE INTENTIONED WITH THE WAY TRANSIT IS USED.

THE CITY SEES IT AS AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TOOL ALL THE TIME.

IF YOU LOOK AT SOUTH END AND THE BLUE LINE EXTENSION TO THE NORTH, HOW DEVELOPMENTS HAVE BOOMED THERE.

THEY'RE REALLY HOPING THAT PUTTING THE TRANSIT CENTER UNDERGROUND, PUTTING THE BUSES UNDERGROUND WILL OPEN UP THIS NEW DEVELOPMENT SITE WHERE THEY PARTNER WITH A PRIVATE COMPANY TO BUILD A LOT, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT'S THE BEST MOVE FOR THE TRANSIT RIDERS AND THE TRANSIT SYSTEM AS A WHOLE.

THOSE GOALS ARE KIND OF SOMETIMES AT LOGGERHEADS.

>> I KNOW THE CITY IS I TRYING TO USE NAMING RIGHTS TO PAY FOR THIS $60 MILLION IN NAMING RIGHTS TO PAY FOR THIS NEW PRACTICE CENTER AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY'RE TRYING TO LINK THE TWO PROJECTS AS A WAY TO KICK START THE TRANSIT CENTER RENOVATION.

IS THAT A FAIR ASSUMPTION, DANIELLE?

>> DEFINITELY.

YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, TOO THE EPICENTER IS RIGHT NEXT DOOR.

>> RIGHT.

>> THIS IS A WHOLE AREA THAT CITY LEADERS WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE REDEVELOPED.

I DO WANT TO MAKE THE POINT.

I THINK TO WHAT ELI WAS SAYING, IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW, MAJORITY OF TRANSIT RIDERS ARE PEOPLE OF COLOR AND ARE LOW INCOME.

AND I THINK THAT WE NEED TO KEEP IN MIND GOING FORWARD LIKE YOU SAID THIS TENSION.

HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY RIDING TRANSIT ARE STILL THE BEST DECISIONS ARE BEING MADE FOR THEM, TOO.

FROM WAS A REPORT IN WFAE AND THE TRANSIT TIMES, I BELIEVE, NEWSLETTER TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IS IT DISCRIMINATORY TO MOVE IT UNDERGROUND OR ARE THERE CONCERNS ABOUT INITIATIVES AND THINGS LIKE THAT?

AND I THINK WE HAVE YET TO SEE SORT OF A PLAN WE HAVE SEEN THIS BIG DEVELOPMENT RENDERING AND I THINK WE GET TO SEE A PLAN FOR HOW IT WORKS FOR TRANSIT RIDERS.

>> ONE SITUATION, JEFF, AND YOU AND I ARE DATING OURSELVES AS TWO OLD MEN AS PART OF THIS GROUP BUT WE REMEMBER WHEN PEOPLE WERE WAITING AT THE CORNER OF TRADE AND TRYON FOR BUSES BEFORE THE TRANSIT CENTER WAS EVER CONSTRUCTED.

THERE WAS THE RUMORS IN THE COMMUNITY THAT THE CONVERSATIONS THAT, HEY, YEAH, WE GOT TO GET THESE BUS RIDER OFF THE SQUARE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT CAMS TO CHAMBER OF COMMERCE TYPE BROCHURES IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD.

>> RIGHT.

>> IT WAS THE FEEL THAT THE BRASS OF BANK OF AMERICA, CHAMBER OF COMMERCE AND THAT SORT OF THING.

THEY END UP BUILDING, YOU KNOW, THE TRANSIT CENTER WHICH WE HAVE SEEN MORE AKIN TO, BUT THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT, TOO, AND THIS IS THE OTHER QUESTION AS IT RELATES TO THE MONEY BEING PUT INTO NEW COMPLEX FOR THE CHARLOTTE HORNETS AND THAT IS BACK WHEN PAM SYFERT WAS THE CITY MANAGER, THIS THERE WAS THIS PIE IN THE SKY WHERE YOU HAD THE TRANSIT MALL AND THE BUSINESSES THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, KIND OF SUPPORT WHAT WAS HAPPENING, YOU KNOW, AT WHAT'S NOW THE SPECTRUM CENTER.

WELL, THE REALITY IS A LOT OF THOSE BUSINESSES WENT IN AND FAILED.

THE ONLY TWO BUSINESSES THAT ARE LEFT ARE THE BARBER SHOP THAT'S THERE AND THE HORNETS' TEAM STORE.

I'M JUST WONDERING, YOU KNOW, STRATEGICALLY AND AS IT RELATES TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, WILL THERE BE SOMETHING ELSE TO PUT IN THERE IN ADDITION TO THIS BIG PLAZA LIKE WE HAVE SEEN IN PLACES LIKE MILWAUKEE WHEN THE BUCS WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP LAST YEAR.

>> I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE CITY WANTS AND THE CITY HAD AN ALTERNATE PLAN WHICH WOULD NOT TOUCH THE TRANSIT CENTER BUT WOULD BUILD THE PRACTICE FA IT IS.

IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A DONE DEAL REGARDING THE TRANSIT CENTER BUT IT IS THE THING THAT A LOT OF FOLKS SEEM TO HAVE FOCUSED ON AS THIS DEAL WITH THE HORNETS HAS GONE FORWARD.

275 MILLION BY THE WAY.

25215 MILLION FOR THE SPECTRUM CENTER AND 60 MILLION FOR NAMING RIGHTS FOR THE PRACTICE CENTER.

THOSE ARE THE NUMBERS FOR THE DEAL.

CITY COUNCIL TALKED MORE ABOUT TRANSIT THIS WEEK.

LET'S TAKE THE LINES ONE AT A TIME, SHALL WE?

FIRST OF ALL, THE GOLD LINE IS GETTING SEVERAL MILLION DOLLARS IN PLANNING MONEY FOR AN EXPANSION FROM ITS PRESENT FOUR MILES TO SIX MILES BUT NOT WITHOUT RELUCTANCE ON THE PART OF A LOT OF CITY COUNCILMEMBERS WHO DON'T LIKE WHAT THEY SEE RIGHT NOW WHEN IT COMES TO GOLD LINE, RIGHT?

ANYBODY?

>> YES.

SO YOU KNOW, THE PLAN IS TO EXPAND THE GOLD LINE TO THE EAST AND WEST, BRING IT UP TO A TOTAL OF TEN MILES, ADDING SIX TO THE FOUR.

CITY COUNCIL APPROVED $4.3 MILLION FOR THE PLANNING OF THAT.

TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH IT WOULD COST, WHERE EXACTLY IT WOULD GO.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF KIND OF RELUCTANCE ON CITY COUNCIL.

THEY STILL NEEDED FOR IT, 8-3.

THEY'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE PROBLEMS THE GOLD LINES HAD WITH PHASE 1 AND 2 WHERE THERE'S BEEN LOW RIDERSHIP, A LOT OF SERVICE DELAYS, A LOT OF INCONSISTENT SERVICE AND THAT'S BECAUSE OF OPERATOR SHORTAGES TO CARS PARKING ON THE TRACKS AND BLOCK IT BECAUSE IT SHARES THE ROAD WITH CARS.

SO COUNCIL HAS BEEN SAYING WE DON'T WANT TO APPROVE THE NEXT PHASE OF THIS THING UNTIL WE GET THESE FIGURED OUT.

THEY DID APPROVE THE PLANNING MONEY AND WE WILL SEE WHAT ULTIMATELY HAPPENS, BUT THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF QUESTION MARKS AROUND IF IT IS SO HARD TO OPERATE A FOUR-MILE STREET CAR LINE, HOW IN THE HECK IS A TEN-MILE ONE GOING TO WORK?

>> KEEP IN MIND, THE OTHER THING, TOO, WHEN THEY UNVEILED THE GOLD LINE, IT WAS SUPPOSED TO RUN FROM ROSA PARKS PLACE ON BEATTIES FORD ROAD WHICH IS WHERE THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT IS OUT TO EASTLAND MALL AND INCREMENTALLY, WE'RE SEEING, AS ELI TALKED ABOUT, THE FACT THAT OKAY, THERE'S BEEN SHORTCOMINGS AND THIS MAY NOT NECESSARILY BE THE BEST WAY OF DEALING WITH TRANSPORTATION IN AN URBAN AREA.

HOWEVER, SOME OF THE BUSINESS OPERATORS ALONG CENTRAL AVENUE ARE SAYING, WHAT ABOUT US AND THEY'RE HOPING THAT THEY CAN GET SOME TOURISM KINDS OF ACTIVITIES OR PEOPLE COMING TO THAT PART OF TOWN ON THE GOLD LINE MORE SO THAN RELATING ON THE TRAFFIC THAT GOES UP AND DOWN CENTRAL AVENUE.

>> ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES HAS BEEN WHETHER OR NOT THERE WILL BE A DEDICATED LANE.

MANY OF THE PROBLEMS AND NOT ALL OF THEM, AND THERE ARE ISSUES LIKE OPERATOR ISSUES ABOUT YOU MANY OF THE PROBLEMS STEM FROM THE FACT THAT STREET CAR SHARES TRAFFIC WITH CARS.

AND SO IF IT HAD ITS OWN DEDICATED LANE, IT COULD OPERATE LIKE A LIGHT RAIL.

IT WOULDN'T STOP AT A STOP LIGHT AND BEHIND TRAFFIC.

IF THERE'S A VEHICLE PARKED THERE AND SO I THINK THE ISSUE, THOUGH IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD BEEN GOING BACK AND FORTH.

CITY COUNCIL ASKED WILL THERE BE A DEDICATED LANE AND GOING BACK AND FORTH AS TO WHERE THAT WOULD BE POSSIBLE.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT ITS ROUTE, CENTRAL AVENUE SAY VERY BUSY STREET.

IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN HOW MUCH THEY CAN BUILD A DEDICATED LANE.

HOW MUCH OF THE ROUTE WILL BE A DEDICATED LANE.

WHAT WILL THEY DO WHEN THEY CAN'T BUILD IT?

HOW CAN THEY MAKE IT SO PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY-- THAT IT CAN COMPETE WITH COMMUTING IN YOUR CAR?

IT WILL BE FASTER TO HOP IN YOUR CAR, YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO TAKE IT.

>> CHRISTINA, YOU DID THE GREAT RACE AT LEDGER.

>> YEAH.

>> WHEN THEY FIRST START THE GOLD LINE.

TELL US ABOUT THAT.

>> I WAS JUST GOING TO JUMP IN WITH THAT.

SO WE ACTUALLY HAD A RECREATIONAL RUNNER RACE THE GOLD LINE.

ELI WAS OUT THAT MORNING AS WELL.

[LAUGHTER] AND SHOCKINGLY ENOUGH, THE RUNNER OUTRACED THE GOLD LINE TRAIN.

SO YEAH, PROVING THAT TWO LEGS CAN GO QUICKER A LOT OF DAYS THAN THE GOLD LINE.

>> YEAH.

THERE ARE LOTS OF PROBLEMS TO WORK OUT ON THE CURRENT LINE AND THE FUTURE GOAL LINE.

AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AND RIDERSHIP VERSUS DEVELOPMENT, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE WE BUILDING HERE AND WHY ARE WE BUILDING IT?

IT FEELS LIKE A SHIFT ON THE PARTS OF CATS AND THE CATS PLANNERS ON WHAT THE SILVER LINE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE OR WILL BE, YOU KNOW, ONCE THEY START BUILDING IT.

ANYBODY WANT TO TAKE FIRST CRACK AT THAT THE SILVER LINE?

ELI, I SEE YOU KNOWING?

>> YEAH.

SO YOU KNOW, IT'S A LITTLE COMPLICATED BUT BASICALLY, THE PLANS FOR THE SILVER LINE HAS BEEN TO RUN IT AROUND UPTOWN TO THE NORTH AND SO FOLLOWING BASICALLY 11th STREET TO 77 AND BACK DOWN SO SKIRTING ALL OF UPTOWN LOOPING AROUND IT.

CATS SAID THAT THIS WOULD GENERATE MORE DEVELOPMENT IN PLACES LIKE FIRST WARD WHERE THAT HAS LAGGED AND THERE HASN'T BEEN A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT.

TRANSIT ADVOCATES HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT WE NEED TO BRING IT THROUGH UPTOWN.

WE NEED TO BRING IT THROUGH THE CENTER SO PEOPLE CAN RIDE IT STRAIGHT TO WORK AND CATS HAS BEEN RESISTING THAT FOR A FEW YEARS NOW.

THERE HAVE BEEN RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE URBAN LAND INSTITUTE THAT, IN FACT, THIS IS WHAT THEY SHOULD DO AND THAT A MEETING THIS WEEK, CATS SAID, OKAY THIS LOOKS LIKE, OH, GOOD IDEA.

IT WOULD COST ROUGHLY A BILLION DOLLARS LESS TO RUN THE SILVER LINE UP-- TO UPTOWN THAN DOWN SHARING TRACKS WITH THE BLUE LINE, STOP RIGHT THERE AND THEN HAVE A SECOND PART, THE PART THAT GOES TO THE WEST BASICALLY COME IN TO GATEWAY STATION.

SO IT WOULDN'T BE ONE CONTINUOUS LINE.

IT WOULD BE AN EASTERN SEGMENT SHARING SOME TRACKS WITH THE BLUE LINE IN UPTOWN AND THE WESTERN SEGMENT ENDING AT GATEWAY STATION.

THIS WOULD BE ABOUT A BILLION DOLLARS CHEAPER AND THEY ESTIMATE IT WOULD DRAW ABOUT 22,000 RIDERS A DAY VERSUS 19,000 RIDERS A DAY.

IT'S A SHIFT AND PRETTY SIGNIFICANT, I THINK.

>> YEAH.

IF IT'S A BILLION DOLLARS CHEAP PERMIT CARRIES MORE PASSENGERS, WHY ARE WE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION?

YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS OBVIOUS.

>> TWO REASONS.

I MEAN, ONE, YOU ARE REALLY TALKING ABOUT TWO SEPARATE LINES NOW.

NOT ONE CONTINUOUS ONE.

AND IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A CONTINUOUS EAST-WEST LINE, AND YOU KNOW, THE OTHER THING IS THAT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PIECE.

CATS HAS SAID THAT THEY WANT THIS TO BE A TOOL THAT SPURS GROWTH LIKE WE'VE SEEN IN SOUTH END AND JUST NORTH OF UPTOWN AND BRINGING IT THROUGH TO SHARE TRACKS WITH THE BLUE LINE AND WOULDN'T HAVE THAT SAME EFFECT MOST LIKELY.

>> DANIELLE.

>> YOU HAVE TO THINK, TOO, THAT THE ORIGINAL SORT OF IDEA AROUND BRINGING IT THROUGH UPTOWN, WELL, THE REASON IT'S SO MUCH CHEAPER NOW ORIGINALLY THEY WANTED TO PUT A TUNNEL THROUGH UPTOWN WHICH WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CHEAPER.

>> RIGHT.

>> IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE EXPENSIVE.

THIS NEW PROPOSAL IS A CHEAPER WAY TO GET AT THE SAME GOAL.

ALTHOUGH, OF COURSE ARE AS ELI MENTIONED, IT'S NOT A CONTIGUOUS SEGMENT NOW.

BUT I THINK IT IS DEFINITELY A COMPROMISE THAT'S WELCOMED BY A LOT OF TRANSIT ADVOCATES, YOU KNOW, CONSIDERING THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL THAT DID NOT GO THROUGH UPTOWN AT ALL AND ALSO DID NOT GO DIRECTLY TO THE AIRPORT.

>> YEAH.

NONE OF THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN UNLESS TAXPAYERS APPROVE DOLLARS FOR IT.

I GUESS THEY HAVE TO FIND SOMETHING THAT TAXPAYERS WOULD ULTIMATELY FIND ACCEPTABLE AS WELL.

AND WHEN YOU CAN SAVE A BILLION DOLLARS AT LEAST ON PAPER, I GUESS YOU PUT THAT IN THE BROCHURE WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO SELL THAT TAX INCREASE TO THE PUBLIC.

HEY, WE GOT A FEW MINUTES LEFT.

I WANT TO SHIFT GEARS ON A COUPLE OF OTHER SUBJECTS.

WE HAD A MARCH FOR OUR LIVES EARLIER THIS WEEK, LAST WEEKEND ACTUALLY IN CONJUNCTION WITH A LOT OF OTHER CITIES.

BECAUSE OF THE MASS SHOOTINGS WE'VE SEEN IN BUFFALO AND ACTUALLY REALLY ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

BUT WE'VE ALSO SEEN THIS WEEK IS A SHIFT IN GUN POLITICS.

BOTH OF OUR REPUBLICAN SENATORS, RICHARD BURR AND THOM TILLIS PART OF THE GROUP IN WASHINGTON THAT ARE TRYING TO NEGOTIATE A COMPROMISE, REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS TOGETHER ON SOME SORT OF GUN CONTROL THAT'S REALLY A SHIFT WHEN IT COMES TO POLITICS HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA.

PARTICULARLY WITH REPUBLICAN POLITICS, RIGHT?

>> I THINK IT'S THE ISSUE TO THE SECOND AMENDMENT AND THE REALITY IS DID EVERYBODY GET WHAT THEY WANTED IN THIS PARTICULAR BILL THAT'S GOING TO COME OUT OF THE SENATE.

INITIALLY, WHAT WAS IT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT?

FINDING TEN SENATORS TO JUMP ONBOARD WITH THE DEMOCRATS AND YOU KNOW, YOU HAD SPEAKER McCONNELL WHO BASICALLY BOUGHT INTO THE IDEA, BUT THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT ARE GO BE LEFT OUT AS FAR AS THE REAL BIG STICKING POINT IS THE BAN ON ASSAULT WEAPONS AND THERE'S SOME THINGS, I GUESS, IT'S THE OLD ADAGE THAT HALF A LOAF IS BETTER THAN NO LOAF AT ALL AS IT RELATES TO GETTING THINGS THROUGH LEGISLATURES.

>> IT SOUNDS LIKE A SOFTENING.

THOM TILLIS WAS THE SPOKESPERSON FOR THE BIPARTISAN GROUP.

WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO STAND FOR RE-ELECTION FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS THAT GIVES YOU FLEXIBILITY ON ISSUES LIKE THIS.

IT DOES KIND OF-- IT'S THE FIRST TIME, REALLY THAT I RECALL SEEING THIS KIND OF SOFTENING AMONG MAJOR REPUBLICANS IN NORTH CAROLINA ON AN ISSUE LIKE GUN CONTROL WHICH IS SO CENTRAL TO A LOT OF REPUBLICAN PLATFORMS.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'LL TRANSFER TO THIS COMING ELECTION WHEN WE HAVE A GUN SHOP OWNER RUNNING ON THE REPUBLICAN TICKET FOR SENATE.

BUT TO REPLACE RICHARD BURR, BUT WE SHALL SEE.

AFFORDABLE HOUSING, DANIELLE, YOU DID A STORY ABOUT HOW EFFECTIVE OR MAYBE INEFFECTIVE THE PRIVATE FUND-RAISING HAS BEEN IN TRYING TO ESTABLISH MORE UNITS.

DO YOU WANT TO TALK BRIEFLY ABOUT THAT?

>> YEAH.

SO YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT WHAT WE'VE SEEN OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS WITH Ard TOABLE HOUSING NEWS HAS REALLY JUST ILLUSTRATED THAT WE CANNOT KEEP UP WITH HOW QUICKLY THE NEED FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS GROWING.

SO THE PRIVATE, AFFORDABLE HOUSING FUND WHICH IS MANAGED BY A GROUP CALLED LISK.

THIS IS THE ALL THE MONEY BACK IN 2019, THE CORPORATIONS, WELLS FARGO, BANK OF AMERICA, ALL THE BIG EMPLOYERS CAME OUT AND DONATED TO AFFORDABLE HOUSING SEPARATE FROM THE PUBLIC HOUSING TRUST FUND.

THEY HAVE CREATED AND PRESERVED A THOUSAND AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNITS SINCE THAT FUND WAS CREATED USING THE $53 MILLION THAT WAS POURED INTO IT, AND YOU KNOW, I THINK I MEAN THAT'S A THOUSAND MORE UNITS THAN WE HAD BEFORE.

WELL, IN THE CASE OF PRESERVING OR SOME UNITS THAT MAY HAVE OTHERWISE NOT BEEN AFFORDABLE ANYMORE.

BUT REALLY, EVERYTHING WE'RE DOING IS A DROP IN THE BUCKET WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THE COMMUNITIES THAT WE SEEN BEING DISPLACED.

STERLING, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN THE HOMELESSNESS NUMBERS GROW AND SO I THINK THAT AND RESOURCES WE HAVE AND WE HAVE THE SHORTAGE IN THE TENS OF THOUSANDS AND IT'S GREAT BUT IT'S NOT AND FOLKS LIKE COPS AND WAITRESSES AND NURSES THEY CAN'T AFFORD THE AVERAGE APTMENTS AND THAT'S SAD AND THAT'S A CHALLENGE FOR THE ENTIRE CITY.

ONE LAST TOPIC I WANT TO TOUCH ON IS SOUTH END.

CENTER CITY PARTNERS TALKED TO COUNCIL THIS WEEK ABOUT WHETHER THEY'RE THE SAME OR DIFFERENT.

DO THEY COMPETE OR DO THEY COMPAT.

DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT, CHRISTINE MA?

>> MICHAEL SMITH OF CENTER CITY PARTNERS SPOKE TO CITY COUNCIL ON MONDAY.

THE ANSWER IS HE SAYS THAT THEY'RE ONE IN THE SAME, REALLY.

I GUESS CENTER CITY PARTNERS LIKES TO THINK OF SOUTH END AS PART OF UPTOWN.

SOUTH END HAS SEEN THE BIG GROWTH LATELY AS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR SO LONG AND IT IS PART OF UPTOWN AND THE GROWTH MOVES AROUND AND MOORE HEAD DEVELOPMENT WAS REALLY BIG AND TRADE AND TRYON DEVELOPMENT AND SOUTH TRYON DEVELOPMENT.

THE IDEA THAT SOUTH END IS NOW SORT OF ABSORBED INTO UPTOWN IS KIND OF THE THEME THAT HE WAS TOUCHING ON THIS WEEK.

ANY LAST THOUGHTS?

>> I THINK GEOGRAPHICALLY AND YOU GET THE BLUEPRINT ANYTHING INSIDE OF THE 277 BELT WAS ALWAYS DESIGNATED AS UPTOWN.

EVERYTHING OUTSIDE OF 277 WAS NOT UPTOWN.

BUT THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN THIS CORRELATION AND THIS RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN CENTER CITY PARTNERS AND THEY EVEN HAD SOUTH END PARTNERS AT ONE POINT.

>> WE'LL GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD.

>> YOU KNOW, UPTOWN IS ONE SQUARE MILE IF YOU THINK ABOUT HOW BIG THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICTS IN OTHER MAJOR DISTRICTS AND IT'S A LOT BIGGER THAN SQUARE MILE.

I THINK THERE'S PLENTY OF ROOM TO GROW.

>> TIME TO REDRAW THE LINES, I GUESS.

WE'RE OUT OF TIME.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON WHAT I THINK WAS A PRETTY GOOD DISCUSSION.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AT HOME.

IF YOU HAVE COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT THIS WEEK AND WHAT WE HAD TALK ABOUT IN THE FUTURE, SEND THEM TO OFFTHERECORD@WTVI.ORG.

SEE YOU NEXT ON ON OFF THE RECORD.

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