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- One rural North Carolina has reported 100% compliance in broadband deployment.

What has that meant?

It's a pretty amazing story.

I'm Chris William, and welcome again to the most widely watched and longest running program on Carolina business policy and public affairs.

We'll unpack policies that are happening even in the background of the summer season coming on.

And speaking of summer and transportation, the president of I-77 Mobility Partners, which is a public private partnership with the state of North Carolina around toll lanes, will also join us to unpack that.

And we hope you stay with us, because we start right now.

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A private foundation, enriching communities in the Carolinas through higher education, healthcare, rural churches, and children's services.

On this edition of Carolina Business Review, Jamie McMahan of the Yancey County Economic Development Corporation.

Mark Farris, from the Greenville Area Development Corporation.

And special guest, Francisco Jose Espinoza.

CEO of I-77 Mobility Partners.

(triumphant intro music plays) - Happy summer to you both.

Glad to see you again, Mark.

Jamie, welcome to the dialogue.

Mark I'm gonna start with you.

In the upstate of South Carolina, of course, Greenville and Greenville county, but particularly Unity Park in Greenville.

This has been a development and a community project for decades, and it's finally opened.

What kind of impact does that mean for the city in the upstate?

- Yeah, it's an area Chris, that is a particular interest towards the growth of Greenville.

It's towards the Western end, which is a target area to bring that kind of open space.

And, you know, for Greenville, as densely as we are being developed, these open spaces are becoming coveted assets for us.

So it has been decades in the making.

It was just opened recently and to great acclaim.

It has some features that, you know, I think a lot of folks are gonna really enjoy.

And it's something that we need to do more of, especially as we pay more attention to the balance and land use, which is gonna be a critical issue for us and every growing community in North and South Carolina.

- Let me ask you a quick follow up for that.

And Jamie, I promise we're gonna bring you into this.

But just very quickly.

So Unity Park seems like it started as a community project, and a cultural center of some sort.

But it sounds like more of an economic development, more citywide, countywide now economic development story.

Is that right?

- Yeah.

It certainly has been.

And, and if you look at, for example, Falls Park, I guess our most iconic park in Greenville, where the infamous bridge is there.

The activity, the economic activity, office class, a office based camper down area, for example, has just seen explosive growth.

Hotels, restaurants.

And so we anticipate that kind of thing for Unity Park as well.

There'll be an incredible interest, especially in residential.

It runs through the Swamp Rabbit trail.

And the Swamp Rabbit Trail has generated tens of millions of dollars of investment.

And it's an underutilized asset.

Something that we as economic developers don't think enough about, you know, the ability to leverage those kind of outdoor resources to create real economic opportunity for a community.

- Jamie, staying with the whole economic development theme here, Yancey County can be, not can be, but is a rural community in North Carolina.

You could say it's a community or not, but the, let me pull something out and get your sense of this.

So Yancey County, and correct me if I'm wrong, is 100% deployed with broadband access.

Is that true?

- That is, you're almost correct.

We would like to say a hundred, we're 97% covered.

And if you consider that, of course, Yancey County, if you're familiar with it, is home of Mount Mitchell, 10 of the 11 largest, tallest peaks east of the Rockies.

Of course, some of that area is difficult to reach, so.

But for all practical purposes, we're relatively 100% covered with broadband high speed connectivity.

And not only connected, but we're connected with fiber infrastructure.

- So a couple things out of that is two things.

So as the Carolinas battle with just getting to that point, and it's not about money, and I know you know that about now.

It's not about money, but it's actually about this, this idea of how you hang these things on the poles, and the access, in the gateway.

How did you do it?

And what has it done?

What are the early days of having almost a hundred percent broadband done for the county and the region?

- Well, it's been a fantastic economic development driver here, really.

You know, we had the foresight and I, I should say our private partners Country Cable Vision at the time in 2009, had the foresight to pursue federal funding.

The project interior was $25.3 million, which is a large lift for any community, particularly a rural community.

It was interesting construction here.

And they actually did several things that were quite innovative at the time to deploy fiber on the lines here, including the use of drones to actually deploy and string fiber in some of the more mountainous sections of the community here.

Took a few years to build out completely.

But if you fast forward recently, we've begun to see, not only in industrial recruitment, business recruitment expansion, our manufacturing firms here have better access to their other plants and corporate offices.

It's been a huge boom to tourism here.

We actually saw last year a 16.3% increase in tourism in the middle of COVID.

And that was during a period of time when 86 of the hundred counties in North Carolina actually lost revenue.

I don't say that to say that COVID was the cause of that, but it was a catalyst and we continue to see growth.

As remote workers find us, if you can work wherever you choose to be in the country, why would you not choose to be in some of the, you know, prettiest places in the world?

Upstate South Carolina, Western North Carolina.

You know, great areas to be in.

When you have that job and work remotely.

And we've seen COVID really hasten that, or at least a side effect of that, you know.

What might, may have taken 10 years to see adopted across a business community has now become something that's truly, you know, a incentive to keep workers or to keep workers happy.

- Yeah.

Let, let me bring Mark into this.

Mark, as you hear Jamie talk about this in a rural community and of course, Greenville and Spartenburg county is populated, but also rural in places.

- Yeah.

- The challenge that South Carolina face is the same as North Carolina.

And that's this idea of stringing fiber, and getting it on the poles.

Where are you, how challenging is that for you?

- Yeah, we've had some great partnership programs with our electrical cooperatives.

They have, Blue Ridge for example in our area, has taken on the task of putting some of those capacity elements in place for us for high speed internet.

And certainly that's, you know, Jamie pointed out the remote work trend.

That's been incredibly important to have that kind of asset for those folks who could really live anywhere in the world.

And so why wouldn't they choose a beautiful place like Yancey County?

But I'll tell you the thing that I have seen have the greatest impact has been entrepreneurial innovation areas of my community.

Because if you think about those kind of businesses, a lot of 'em are IT based and having that kind of, of speed is, is critically important for them as they start and grow their businesses.

- Let me ask you both.

We've got about two minutes before we bring our guest on.

And do you get the sense, Jamie, I'll start with you.

Home prices in Yancey County have done what home price has done, in Orangeburg County they're up 16%, in Yancey County they're up double digits.

Mark in Greenville, apartment rents are up 18 to 20%.

Do you feel like this deployment of broadband, and especially Jamie in your world, in your area of dominant influence.

Is that going to abate and take some of the pressure off these dramatic rises in home prices, so people don't feel like they have to be at every center city to be effective?

- I think it does, and it's a double edged sword, really.

In some ways the ability to be wherever you choose to be somewhat drives those rising home places.

I would say here in Yancey County, truly what the single largest factor is in addressing residential prices is a failure to keep up with inventory.

A failure to build speedily, you know, after the crash in 2008 and nine, we really didn't recover a lot of speculative home building here as maybe some of the larger urban areas did.

So as we've seen people come out, and this is the case, not only rural communities, some rural communities, but in suburban communities as well.

Or, you know, second tier cities you might say.

As people move out, I think there's been a slower pace to catch up with construction of new housing inventory.

Of course, that's complicated now by, you know, if a builder chooses to build a new subdivision, you know, sourcing labor, sourcing materials is a challenge now, too.

But I think there's a desire on the part of developers and builders to sort of address that.

But really, you know, we, I don't see, you know, demand abating anytime soon.

So really I think that the solution to that is it's as simple as build more housing.

And it, that will take time.

But if anything, I think broadband actually continues to drive folks here, you know, and really contributed to the rising home price here.

And you're correct, we see that all across the region.

I'm sure Mark sees a similar situation.

- I'm sorry, we're gonna run outta time.

Mark, we've got about 30 seconds.

Are we gonna hit a tipping point with 20% increase in rental prices in Greenville, in downtown Greenville?

That's a problem.

Is that a tipping point, or are we close?

- It is.

And it's certainly something that we're struggling with.

Affordability is sometimes the contradiction in terms of some of the things that are being built in Greenville.

But we're gonna have to deal with it.

It's up to our leaders to take that initiative to make it happen.

- Eight years ago in a town like Charlotte, when the idea of a possible toll lane as being an option for transportation became very controversial, it wasn't a surprise to many, but the prospects of it actually happening in the early days were iffy at best.

Eight years later, Charlotte now on the I-70, on the spine of the I-77 corridor, has two managed lanes.

And they seem to have been a success.

Not just from managing traffic, but financially as well.

Joining us now is the chief executive officer of I-77 Mobility Partners.

We welcome Jose Espinoza.

Mr. Espinoza, welcome to the program.

Nice to see you, sir.

- Thank you, Mr. Williams.

Thank you please for having me today.

Great opportunity, indeed.

So yes, it's a reality today.

You know, it's a proven example of success.

Construction is always disruptive.

We get that.

It was also a very complex project, when you have to keep assisting traffic running.

When you do a project that has an existing infrastructure around and you need to keep those cars moving, it's also a big challenge.

From an engineer point of view.

No, but those days are over.

The disruption is over now it's time, to really demonstrate what we are here for.

You know, what our counterparty, the North Carolina Department of Transportation, as a genuine innovative partner, they have the vision a few years ago to do this, and they did it with us.

So now we have situations that we are moving essentially more than 20 million cars for the last two years.

Since we opened a hundred percent in November, 2019, We have more than 300,000 people that they drive the express lanes on a monthly basis.

We have 1 million trips know that we take in those express lanes.

And the customer satisfaction is pretty high.

We conduct yearly polls through a very reputable organizations, and we get positive feedback of more than 85% of customers.

The rest are essentially, they are neutral to that.

And we are 24/7.

We are responsible for not only the express lanes.

We are also responsible for the general purpose lanes.

For those 26.6 miles north of Charlotte.

Doesn't matter to us who drives.

On the left, on the right, on the middle.

All of us, for sure, they look, they are being looked after, sorry, by our 24/7 team.

- Jose, let me ask you, when you look at eight years ago, when you look at today, and when you talk about the success both financially, but also traffic patterns, have you been able to almost all answer the critics that said it's too expensive, access to the interstate's gonna be a problem, we don't like the idea, it's gonna be too much traffic.

And I'm gonna ask you to answer this in about two minutes, and I know that's hard to do, but we wanna get, we wanna get a lot of dialogue in here, but the idea is, have you been able to answer the critics that said, yeah, this is not gonna work?

- Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, it's proven people they are, they are using those.

And also we have 35% of our traffic on the express lanes.

It's being used off-peak periods, when there is not essentially traffic.

People they want a predictable trip, people they want a safe trip, and people they want us to get from point a, sorry, to from point B in a predictable, in a predictable manner.

And with the express lane, it's also what we have been doing is improving as well the mobility, you know, the entire corridor.

We have the express lanes moving in a free flow manner, but also the general purpose.

They are almost into a free flow.

And we have more traffic now in the entire corridor, almost more than 5%, compared to the preconstruction levels.

Having this new corridor open for people is bringing more traffic and for sure more business, more residential units.

We have population growth.

It's putting a lot of pressure in the city.

It's one of the fastest growing cities in the states.

We're growing at an average of even higher than the US.

And we need to accommodate those.

And I-77 is ready to go for that.

- Okay.

All right Mark, please.

Question.

- Jose, Greenville is home to Clemson University's International Center for Automotive Research, and we're doing a significant amount of work on electrification and autonomous vehicles.

Would the express lanes lend themselves to that kind of technology advance?

And would you be able to accommodate those new innovations in mobility?

- Yeah.

Our innovation department, for sure, we have been working those type of future things that they are no longer the future.

It's a, it's a reality.

And it's coming closer or faster than what we thought.

So in I-77, for example, we have more than 27,000 RPMs is the roadside pavement markers.

Essentially is in the, in the division of the different lines.

They will improve their retro reflectivity, not to a normal bed lined from vehicle.

It will also help in the, into the retro reflectivity as well.

For all of those sensors that have been installed in the, in the autonomous cars or semi-autonomous cars.

We have been also as part of our innovation behind the scenes working with the specific companies to improve us well into the pavement marking.

The line marking.

So we have extra type of products there to improve that retro reflectivity.

And also, we are in the middle as well of a bigger project.

It's called Avia, with one of our shareholders is working on that.

And it's becoming a reality in other countries, sorry, in other states of the US.

And for sure eventually in the future, it will for sure be implemented in the I-77.

And this is essentially to have connected vehicles where the cars will be able to talk to the roadside, and the roadside will be able to talk to them.

For early detection of incidents, hazard, etcetera, etc.

So a technology is there.

It is not only just a piece of a concrete, a asphalt, there are plenty of technology behind and we are getting ready for connected vehicles.

And we will be for sure getting ready for autonomous cars as well.

Artificial intelligence.

We have now recently launched a project, this a reality, it's a proof of concept where we have a specific camera, where the artificial intelligence, sorry, and the data analytics being built in the camera.

The camera is able to identify if a vehicle is slowing down.

And even if we have a pedestrian crossing the highway, it will send alert to our traffic management system.

So you don't have to have an operator there all the time.

- Jamie, Jamie.

- Yeah.

So follow up on Mark's question is you're talking about looking forward to innovations, and it's very interesting to hear you, the various types of innovations that you're thinking, technological innovations.

I wanna ask a question about sort of looking back at the construction process.

'Cause a public private partnership is not anything necessarily that's new, but it's still somewhat novel between the NCDOT and a private company.

How did you, what are lessons that are learned about community outreach and engagement as you went through, as Chris said, a process that that sort of, I guess, did generate some controversy.

How did you connect with the various communities and share exactly what the project looked like?

- So this is the first time I have been working in Charlotte.

I move to the states last year, I have been working for more than 20 years now in PPP's in different countries.

And I wasn't part of the construction in Charlotte, but I had been in part of construction, for example, in my previous role, in Melbourne, down in Australia.

When it comes to communities, the earliest, the earlier the better.

The sooner you start engaging with the communities.

So you inform them, you bring them along the journey.

You also listen to them.

You make sure that they are part as well, there's a problem, but let's make sure that they are part of the, of the solution.

The better things we work for everyone.

Not talking about the state, I'm not talking about the private sector.

It's both together to send out people, send out sensors to make sure what are the big points.

And also to listen to them, know what they need, what they don't need, let them know as well.

Well in advance know any kind of disruption.

Lane closures that we have, no speed reductions in areas.

What are the alternative route?

Even some hand out, there are people there probably that they are senior people.

They are not accustomed to new technologies.

Let's use the old traditional manner with pamphlets, with drawings, that they can really understand how things are going.

And for sure, having regular, and when I say regular is even on a weekly or monthly basis, community sessions, you know.

Where you really present to the communities how the project is going.

And if there is any delays, it's nothing to hide.

What is really wrong I will say, based on my experience, is not to inform.

When you are not informing people, that's a bad decision because you are informing, essentially, at the same time.

So keeping them, you know, fully engaged with the project.

Things will take time in construction.

You cannot deliver certain things in one day.

It's not like a microwave, you know.

It's a traditional way of cooking, like an oven, you know, it takes time.

But then it will taste better, you know.

But has to be done properly, with the right communication, engagement, and putting resources there.

That's my (indistinct).

- I'm sorry.

Excuse me, sir.

Jose, how do you, what have you seen with this dramatic increase in the cost of fuel for internal combustor vehicles at least.

This $4 to $5 a gallon fuel cost?

How has it shown up, or how has it manifest in traffic patterns that you've been able to see?

- Well, we haven't seen any, because I mean, we have seen a lot of movement parts, moving parts over the last few months.

Now we saw Omicron, we saw winter that hit us pretty hard this year for a few weekends.

And then we saw the fuel.

And also we saw as well, returning back to the office.

As you probably are aware, the two big banks in Charlotte, the Bank of America, Wells Fargo, they started to bring back people, starting in March.

So it has been a combination of multiple factors that has been difficult for us to isolate and to identify.

Yes we saw a little bit of a situation there.

There were people that were probably using less some of our segment.

But the best part of how this project is being laid out is you don't have to use the entire express lanes, the entire length.

You have every, almost a mile, the decision point, or I want to jump in or I want to jump off.

So essentially is the elasticity I would say, it didn't exist when it comes to this particular point.

We have seen now in the last couple of weeks, for example, the prices again going up on the fuel, but still traffic is resilient.

Last week was a couple of days that we were able to take from the corridor, because it was highly congested, 17% of the traffic into the express lane.

Essentially we were beating records.

People are still willing to drive, you know, and have to drive.

- Yeah.

Have to drive, sure.

Mark, question.

- Jose, are you looking at other projects in either North or South Carolina to duplicate the success of the express line?

- Well, as an I-77 CEO, for sure, my only responsibility role is current 26.6 miles.

And that's what I really focus.

I will make sure for sure that I promote, and I communicate to everyone what we are doing here, you know, so it can be really used as a proven example that this concept of management it works, you know.

With proven numbers, with data and critical data.

Not like forecast or whatever.

I mean, for sure, if there any opportunities happy for investors, or international, or national, or governments to look into this.

But I'm not really able not to comment beyond that point.

Not beyond I-77.

- Okay.

All right.

Jamie, we've got about two minutes.

- Your interaction or relationship with North Carolina Department of Transportation, how would you rank that you know, previously, and then now that the project's up and running?

- I mean, since I joined, pretty high.

It's very strong.

We keep very open, honest, and that's again, as I mentioned before, communication is clear.

You know, they see what we are able to do, that we are trying to go beyond even what is our requirements in the contract.

We are not afraid to invest extra money.

We will be here for an additional 48 years with these communities.

And with this asset that we decide with them, and we build with them.

I'm very pleased to have a counterparty like NCDOT that they believe in the project, they believe in us for sure.

And they are open with us as well.

There is something that they want us to fix, or to change, or to improve, we just jump into that right away.

And the other way around is the same.

So it's pretty, it's pretty good.

- We have about a minute left.

Jose, and literally about a minute left, we've seen usage appropriately respond as you just articulated, the idea that it it's gone up.

Would you expect it's gonna go up year over year for next year as well?

Do you see that trend continuing?

- Yeah.

Yeah, I see the traffic ramping up.

We just came from the first quarter of the year, even with a bad start.

At the very beginning now with big numbers of Omicron, for sure it was again, people they get a little bit shy, you know, getting out of the house.

And now we are in a good momentum, and vaccination levels in North Carolina are getting pretty high, especially for our population.

And the economy is boosting.

It's incredible.

An improvement rating in North Carolina was 3.5% in the months of March, from 3.7 the previous month.

And the growth, as I said before on population is amazing.

The north section of Charlotte, (indistinct) increases of 2.3, 2.5% of population growth.

So it will come.

It will come up for sure.

- It is pretty amazing.

Jose, thank you for taking time.

Best of luck going forward.

Happy summer to you.

- Thank you.

Thank you yourself.

Nice meeting you.

- Nice to see you again, Mark.

Good to see you, Jamie.

Thanks for joining us.

Until next week, I'm Chris William.

Goodnight.

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