>>> THIS IS A PRODUCTION OF PBS CHARLOTTE.

>> THIS WEEK ON "OFF THE RECORD", WHERE'S THE BUS?

WAITING TWO HOURS-PLUS ON ROUTES THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO RUN EVERY HALF HOUR.

CMS SCHOOLS GET THIS SHARE OF THIS YEAR'S MECKLENBURG BUDGET, IS IT MORE THAN THEY DESERVE OR NOT ENOUGH.

SEEING IS BELIEVING, AS NEIGHBORS USE TRAFFIC VIDEO FROM A DRONE TO FIGHT PLANS FOR A NEW APARTMENT COMPLEXES.

AND BAD ODDS FOR A SPORTS BETTING.

MORE TOLL LANES ON I-77 CASE NUMBER ONE OF KI POX HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA AND DONUT FLAVORED ICE CREAM.

LOTS TO TALK ABOUT.

AND FROM OUR PBS CHARLOTTE STUDIOS, I'M JEFF SONIER AND WE'RE "OFF THE RECORD" TAKING ABOUT THE STORIES YOU'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS WEEK, AND IF YOU WATCH THE NEWS, READ THE NEWS AND LISTEN TO THE NEWS, WELL, YOU'LL RECOGNIZE THE NAMES AND FACES AROUND OUR VIRTUAL TABLE, STEVE FROM WBTV, TONY FROM THE CHARLOTTE LEDGER AND ELY, E-MAIL YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS TO "OFF THE RECORD," AT OFFTHERECORD@WTVI.ORG.

LET'S TALK ABOUT C.A.T.S.

AND THE BUS SYSTEM, WE READ AND HEARD A LOT THIS WEEK ABOUT PROBLEMS THAT C.A.T.S.

IS HAVING, SPECIFICALLY WITH BUS SERVICE, AND, YOU KNOW, BUS SERVICE, I DON'T THINK ANYONE CHOOSES TO RIDE THE BUS, IT'S A NECESSITY FOR MOST OF THE FOLKS WHO ARE ON THOSE BUSES, ON A DAILY BASIS, BUT RIGHT NOW THE SYSTEM SIMPLY ISN'T RUNNING LIKE IT SHOULD OR COULD, TONY, YOU DID A LOT OF REPORTING ON THAT, THIS WEEK, DO YOU WANT TO START US OFF >> SURE, JEFF, THIS RISING FRUSTRATION AMONG BUS RIDERS ABOUT BUSES THAT ARE NOT SHOWING UP, THEY ARE LATE, BUSES ARE SUPPOSED TO COME AT 5:00, THEY'RE THERE BEFORE 5:00, AND NO BUS ROOMS UNTIL 6:30.

SIT A PROBLEM, INCREASING TERMS, THIS IS A CRISIS, UNCONSCIONABLE.

THEY SAY IT STEMS FROM A LACK OF BUS DRIVERS TO INABILITY TOLL HIRE BUS DRIVERS AND THEN THIS WEEK ADDED A NEW WRINKLE TO THAT, SAYING THAT IT'S BECAUSE OF THE UNION CONTRACTS WITH DRIVERS, IN WHICH DRIVERS ARE ALLOWED TO TAKE TEN DAYS PER QUARTER OFF AS UNEXCUSED ABSENCES WITHOUT ANY CONSEQUENCES.

40 DAYS A YEAR, SO THAT'S CREATING SCHEDULING PROBLEMS FOR DRIVERS AND A HUGE PROBLEM WITH BUS RELIABILITY, I TALKED TO A BUNCH OF RIDERS AT THE CHARLOTTE TRANSPORTATION CENTER THIS WEEK, AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, EXTREMELY FRUSTRATED, THESE ARE FOLKS THAT RELY ON THE BUSES TO GET TO WORK.

TO GET TO THE DOCTOR.

AND, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE BUS, YOU MIGHT SAY, OH, WELL, IT DOESN'T AFFECT ME, WELL, THIS CITY HAS SPENT A LOT OF TIME AND MONEY ADDRESSING THE QUESTIONS OF ECONOMIC MOBILITY AND TO HAVE A DYSFUNCTIONAL BUS SERVICE, THE BUS SYSTEM IS, YOU KNOW, REALLY A PROBLEM.

>> YEAH, AND THE REASONS BEHIND THE PROBLEM, YOU KNOW, THE CONTRACT THAT THE BUS DRIVERS OPERATE UNDER, THERE'S NOTHING NEW ABOUT THAT.

THIS IS A CONTRACT AND A BENEFIT THAT THEY'VE HAD FOR YEARS, IT JUST SEEMS ODD THAT SUDDENLY IT'S BECOME A HUGE SCHEDULING PROBLEM THAT'S, YOU KNOW, SHAKEN THE BUS SYSTEM AND, YOU KNOW, PUT RIDERS AS YOU SAID AT A REAL DISADVANTAGE.

I MEAN, IT SOUNDS LIKE EXCUSE MAKING, IT DOESN'T REALLY SOUND LIKE A VALID REASON THAT WE HAD -- THAT WE HAVE PROBLEM RIGHT NOW THAT WE HAVEN'T HAD IN THE PAST >> THE TIMING IS VERY UNFORTUNATE FROM THE STANDPOINT OF WHERE YOU LOOK AT THE FACT THAT WE'RE PAYING $5 A GALLON FOR GAS, AND IN MANY REGARDS, WE'VE SEEN OVER THE YEARS WHEN THERE'S BEEN, YOU KNOW, SPIKES AT THE GAS PUMP, THAT RIDERSHIP GOES UP, YOU KNOW, ON LIGHT RAIL AS WELL AS REGULAR BUSES AND IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR C.A.T.S.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF A DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD, PEOPLE USING PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION FOR THE FIRST TIME, THEY'RE RARELY USING THE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I GUESS ON THE CONSUMER SIDE OF IT, BUT IN TERMS OF WHAT IT IS C.A.T.S.

IS DOING, THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY, YOU KNOW, DELIVERING I GUESS THE GOODS AND/OR SERVICES AS FAR AS GETTING FOLKS FROM POINT A TO POINT B >> ELY?

>> YEAH, AND, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A CRISIS, THAT HAS BEEN BUILTING FOR A WHILE.

AND TONY AND I REPORTED IN THE TRANSIT TIME NEWSLETTER BACK IN FEBRUARY THAT C.A.T.S.

WAS HAVING A 100-PLUS UNSCHEDULED BUS OPERATOR ABSENCES EVERY DAY.

IT DIDN'T GET THAT MUCH ATTENTION THEN.

BUT NOW, IT IS STILL ONGOING, C.A.T.S.

IS NOW TWEETING OUT EVERY MORNING THE NUMBER OF UNSCHEDULED BUS OPERATOR ABSENCES THAT THEY HAVE, IT'S 92 THIS MORNING AND THEY NEED ALMOST 300 OPERATORS RUN THE BUS SYSTEM EVERY DAY AS IT SHOULD BE RUN.

SO HAVING ALMOST AROUND 100 OPERATORS A DAY, HAVING UNSCHEDULED ABSENCES OBVIOUSLY IS NOT SUSTAINABLE.

JUST TO PUT THIS IN A BIGGER CONTEXT T TRAINS GET A LOT MORE ATTENTION, THEY'RE SEXYIER THAN THE LIGHT RAIL, THE DEVELOPMENT IN SOUTH END, AND NORTH OF UPTOWN, BUT BUSES HAVE BEEN THE WORKHORSE OF CHARLOTTE'S TRANSIT SYSTEM AND STILL CARRY THE MAJORITY OF THE RIDERS.

THESE ARE LARGELY ALMOST THREE-QUARTERS AFRICAN-AMERICAN, TWO-THIRDS OF THEM ARE COMMUTING TO WORK.

AND A MAJORITY OF THEM ARE LOW INCOME.

SO OUR TRANSIT SYSTEM IS REALLY NOT SERVING THESE RIDERS WHO NEED IT THE MOST, AND EXCUSE ME, AS TONY SAID, IN MANY CASES, ARE WAITING FOR HOURS.

ON TOP OF THAT, C.A.T.S.

IS TRYING TO ARRANGE, YOU KNOW, A NEW TRANSIT PLAN THAT WOULD REQUIRE LEGISLATIVE AND VOTER APPROVAL FOR A NEW ONE CENT SALES TAX AND IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY HARD FOR THEM TO GENERATE ANY SUPPORT FOR THIS AND GET OVER THOSE HURDLES AND GET THE ONE CENT SALES TAX THAT THEY NEED FOR BILLIONS OF MORE FUNDING WHEN THEY'RE HAVING THIS DEGREE OF RELIABILITY PROBLEMS WITH THE SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE NOW.

>> WE'VE HEARD A LOT -- >> THE OTHER QUESTION THAT YOU'VE GOT TO ASK IS, YOU GO BACK TO EARLIER THIS YEAR WHEN YOU HAD THE C.A.T.S.

BUS THAT WAS FATALLY SHOT, UPTOWN, FROM THE STANDPOINT OF WHERE OKAY, THERE'S SOME ISSUES WITH THE CONTRACTS, BUT THEN, AGAIN, HOW LEGITIMATE ARE SOME OF THE CONCERNS AS IT RELATES TO SAFETY AND SECURITY AS WELL?

>> YEAH, AND THERE WAS ANOTHER SHOOTING, NO ONE WAS KILLED IN IT FORTUNATELY, BUT ANOTHER SHOOTING LAST MONTH WHERE A RIDER AND A DRIVER GOT INTO A VERBAL DISPUTE AND THE RIDER IS ACCUSED OF SHOOTING FOUR TIMES INTO THE BUS.

THE BUS DRIVERS ARE NOT HAPPY, THEY HAVE SAID PUBLICLY THAT THEY FEEL UNSAFE.

THERE'S STILL COVID CASES GOING ON.

AND, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A HARD JOB THAT DOESN'T PAY FANTASTICALLY, THAT REQUIRES IN-PERSON ATTENDANTS AND IT'S -- IT'S A SHORTAGE IN OPERATORS THAT WE'RE SEEING ACROSS THE NATION AND OTHER CITIES ARE DEALING WITH AS WELL.

>>, YOU KNOW, THE COUNCIL MEMBER TARIQ BOKHARI HAS BEEN OUTSPOKEN IN HIS CRITICISM OF C.A.T.S., HE WON'T VOTE FOR MORE FUNDING UNTIL THERE'S A STRUCTURAL CHANGE IN THE LEADERSHIP.

WITH ALL OF THE MONEY THAT WE ARE SPENDING ON TRANSIT AND WE WANT TO SPEND ON TRANSIT GOING TOWARD, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS, THEY UNDERMINE THE CONFIDENCE IN NOT JUST THE SYSTEM ITSELF, BUT THE -- IN THE WAY OUR DOLLARS ARE BEING SPENT.

AND THE OTHER QUICK THING I WONDER ABOUT, TOO, IS THIS CREATION OF A TWO-TIERED TRANSIT SYSTEM, THE TRANSIT SYSTEM THAT WE SPEND MOST OF THE MONEY ON, TRAINS THAT DOESN'T REALLY SERVE THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY NEED TRANSIT.

I MEAN THESE ARE -- THESE ARE BEDROCK QUESTIONS THAT I SUPPOSE THAT GO BEYOND JUST BUSES NOT SHOWING UP, YOU KNOW, ON TIME.

RIGHT?

>> YEAH YEAH, TONY, COYOU SPEAK TO THE PEOPLE YOU TALK TO WHO HAVE TO HAVE THE BUSES?

>> YEAH >> SURE, I MEAN, I TALK TO A FEW AT THE TRANSPORTATION CENTER THIS WEEK.

ONE WAS HEADING TO A DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENT ON RANDOLPH ROAD.

HE SAID, YOU KNOW, THE THING IT DOESN'T SHOW UP, YOU KNOW, TALKED TO ANOTHER GUY WHO WAS GOING UPTOWN FROM MONROE ROAD.

HAS A JOB AT A PIZZA PLACE UPTOWN AND HE SAID HE MOVED HERE FROM WEST VIRGINIA A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO AND SINCE THEN HE'S HAD ABOUT 12 BUSS THAT HASN'T SHOWN UP.

HE SAID FORTUNATELY I RUN FAST, HE WAS ABLE TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, HE SAID, YOU TALK ABOUT THE BUS SYSTEM, THE BUS SYSTEM IN WEST VIRGINIA WAS RELIABLE THAN IT IS CHARLOTTE.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST A REAL PROBLEM, YOU'RE ALSO SEEING JEFF, YOU KNOW, THE RIDERSHIP NUMBERS OF THE BUS.

WAY, WAY DOWN, SOME OF THESE RELIABILITY PROBLEM, PEOPLE ARE JUST SAYING, THEY'RE JUST NOT GOING TO DO IT.

AMAZINGLY THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE RIDING LOCAL BUSS IN CHARLOTTE LAST MONTH, STILL BELOW THE NUMBER IN MAY OF 2020, THAT WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WORST PART OF THE PANDEMIC, WHEN WE WERE UNDER STAY AT HOME ORDERS, I MEAN, THE NUMBERS OF BUS RIDERS, ABSOLUTELY CRATERING WHERE WE'RE SPENDING A BUNCH OF MONEY ON IT.

AS YOU POINTED OUT, PROBLEMS WITH THE BUSES AND BUSES WITH THE GOLD LINE, BLUE LINE SEEMS TO BE RUNNING PRETTY WELL.

BUT, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF QUESTIONS.

>> YEAH.

>> I THINK YOU GUYS HAVE TO ASK THE QUESTION ABOUT THE RIPPLE EFFECT ON THE ECONOMY BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE PEOPLE GOING TO WORK AT RESTAURANTS AND OTHER BUSINESSES, HOW FORGIVING ARE THOSE EMPLOYERS BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE PUNCHING A CLOCK, LITERALLY, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS THEIR HOURS ARE CONCERNED AND THE HARDSHIP THAT MAY COME IF THE BUSINESS AS TO OPEN VERY LATE IN ACCORDING TO ACCOMMODATE THE NEEDS OF THE PUBLIC >> GAS AT $5 A GALLON, YOU WOULD THINK THAT THE RIDERSHIP WOULD BE RISING BUT APPARENTLY THE PROBLEMS WITH THE BUS SYSTEM OR THE SCHEDULING OF THE BUS SYSTEM DON'T OFFSET THAT COST.

YOU KNOW, BOTTOM LINE, AND THESE ARE NUMBERS FROM YOUR STORY, TONY, 78% OF THE RIDERS, OF THE BUS RIDERS IN C.A.T.S.

ARE AFRICAN-AMERICAN, 63% ARE COMMUTERS, 47% MAKE LESS THAN $25,000 A YEAR.

THESE ARE THE VOICES THAT WE REALLY DON'T HEAR FROM OFTEN ON A LOT OF PROBLEMS, IN CHARLOTTE, I GUESS THIS IS JUST THE LATEST PROBLEM IN CHARLOTTE WHERE, YOU KNOW, UNTIL, YOU KNOW, UNTIL WE TALK ABOUT IT, UNTIL YOU WRITE ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW, THESE PROBLEMS GO UNANSWERED.

AND THESE FOLKS ARE AT THE MERCY OF A SYSTEM THEY TRULY NEED BUT CAN'T DEPEND ON RIGHT NOW, THAT'S A SHAME, IT REALLY IS.

YEAH, LET'S CHANGE GEARS FOR A FEW MOMENTS AND TALK ABOUT CMS.

THE COUNTY APPROVED ITS BUDGET THIS WEEK, AND GAVE CMS NOT QUITE WHAT IT WANTED BUT MORE THAN THE COUNTY MANAGER WAS RECOMMENDING.

YOU KNOW, THIS IS ANOTHER SITUATION WHERE WE'VE GOT A, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT LEADERSHIP AT CMS AND QUESTIONS ABOUT ITS, YOU KNOW, ITS, YOU KNOW, ITS ABILITY TO SPEND MONEY WISELY.

CAN WE TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT FIRST OF ALL THE, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE DEBATE BETWEEN DOES CMS DESERVE MORE OR DOES IT NEED MORE?

BECAUSE OF THE PROBLEMS THEY HAVE?

ANYONE WANT TO TAKE THE FIRST CRACK AT THAT?

>> ON GOING DEBATE BETWEEN THE COUNTY AND THE CMS, CMS ALWAYS ASKS FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY, THE COUNTY COMES BACK WITH A LOWER AMOUNT, AND THEN THEY TANGLE OVER WE REALLY NEED THE MONEY TO EDUCATE KIDS VERSUS YOU'RE NOT PRODUCING THE RESULTS THAT WE WANT TO SEE.

SO IT'S JUST SORT OF AN ON GOING, YOU KNOW, YEARLY, YEARLY BATTLE, IT SEEMS LIKE THEY'RE HAVING.

SO I THINK THAT'S JUST A CONTINUATION OF THAT.

>> YEAH, AND WE HAVEN'T THE -- >> THE TAXING AUTHORITY AND AGAIN, AS TONY IS SAYING, IT HAS TO GO BACK TO THE COUNTY EVERY YEAR TO ASK FOR X NUMBER OF DOLLARS AND IT COMES BACK AND FORTH WHERE, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- I GUESS THE CARROT AND THE STICK IN SOME REGARDS BECAUSE YOU END UP WITH THE COUNTY SAYING WELL, LOOK, WE GIVE YOU THIS MONEY BUT GRADUATION RATES ARE OFF, TEST SCORES ARE DOWN, AND IN THAT REGARD, SO I'M JUST WONDERING IF THERE'S EVER A SCENARIO WHERE MEMBERS OF THE SCHOOL BOARD GO TO THE COUNTY AND SAY, OKAY, LIKE YOU HAVE PERFORMANCE-BASED KINDS OF THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN COMPANY, IF THERE'S BENCHMARK THAT THE COUNTY AND THE SCHOOL BOARD CAN GET TO, MAYBE, YOU KNOW, YOU WON'T NECESSARILY HAVE THE BICKERING THAT COMES AT THIS TIME EVERY YEAR.

>> YEAH, AND RIGHT NOW, WE STILL HAVE OF COURSE INTERIM SUPERINTENDENT, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING NEXT YEAR, HOPEFULLY, IF A PERMANENT SUPERINTENDENT IS IN PLACE TO SEE IF ANYONE IS CAPABLE OF SHIFTING THIS KIND OF REPETITIVE DYNAMIC WE SEE EVERY YEAR, BECAUSE WE KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN, YOU KNOW, CMS IS GOING TO ASK FOR X, THE COUNTY IS GOING TO COUNTER WITH HALF OF X AND SETTLE AT 75% OF X, IT'S PREDICKABLE.

AND I DO THINK THAT WILL BE A BIG CHALLENGE FOR A NEW PERMANENT SUPERINTENDENT WHEN THAT PERSON IS HIRED TO SEE IF THEY CAN BREAK OUT OF THAT RUT >> YEAH.

>> WE ALSO SAW THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY REACH OUT THIS WEEK TO CMS MAKING A DEAL WITH THEM TO LOAN THEM EXECUTIVES, OVER 1,000 VOLUNTEER TUTORS, I WONDER IF THIS IS MAYBE AN EFFORT TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE CMS MORE EFFICIENT, MORE RESPONSIBLE, YOU KNOW, LIKE BUSINESSES ARE, YOU KNOW, ANSWERING FOR THEIR PROBLEMS, AND SHOWING RESULTS.

I MEAN, ACCOUNTABILITY IS COMMON PLACE IN THE BUSINESS WORLD.

DOES THIS MEAN THAT MAYBE THAT CMS GETS A DOSE OF BUSINESS WORLD ACCOUNTABILITY WITH THIS PROGRAM WITH THE BUSINESS EXECUTIVES?

>> I MEAN, I THINK SO, THERE'S A LOT OF EXPERTISE IN OUR COMMUNITY ON A LOT OF THINGS, FOR THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEMS TO SUCCEED, IT NEEDS THE BUY IN FROM THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY, YOU CAN'T SAY WELL, THE SCHOOLS ARE OPERATING ON THEIR OWN ISLAND.

THEY DO NEED TUTORS, THEY NEED VOLUNTEER, EXPERTISE AND THERE'S A LOT OF THAT, SO TO THE EXTENT THEY CAN FORMALIZE THOSE RELATIONSHIP, THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE >> HOW DOES CMS SELL THE STORY, YOU TALK ABOUT THE ASSISTANCE THAT'S COMING IN FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR, BUT ALSO, YOU KNOW, THE QUESTION BECOMES, WHAT'S THE PERFORMANCE IN TERMS OF PROOF OF PERFORMANCE?

AND HOW DO THEY MORE OR LESS SHOWCASE WHAT'S GOING RIGHT RATHER THAN WHEN YOU GET TO THIS TIME OF THE YEAR WHERE IT BECOMES THE BICKERING AGAIN.

YOU KNOW, AND IN OTHER WORDS, HOW DO THEY MAKE THEMSELVES LOOK GOOD?

SO WHEN HE GO ASK FOR MONEY, THEY'RE ABLE TO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, GET SOME THINGS, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT ANY CONTROVERSY?

>> YEAH.

I DON'T KNOW IF WE'LL EVER SEE THE DAY WITHOUT CONVERSE TRO VERSE SI WHEN IT COMES TO CMS AND ITS BUDGET ISSUES, BUT THAT'S -- THAT'S DONE FOR THIS YEAR.

AND I'M NOT SURE IF THAT X AND THEN HALF OF X AND MEET HALFWAY, I'M NOT SURE A LOT OF KIDS COULD SOLVE THAT PROBLEM CURRENTLY WITH THE WAY TEST SCORES ARE.

LET'S MOVE ON.

>>> IN RESPONSE TO A PROJECT THAT THE CITY COUNCIL WAS LOOKING AT, AN APARTMENT PROJECT OUT NEAR THE ARBORETUM.

DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THAT MEANS?

AND HOW WE'RE SEEING SOME OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE SEE IN SOUTH END AND UPTOWN, MOVING OUT TO PLACES FARTHERER OUT IN THE SUBURBS?

>> YEAH, SO I MEAN, THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT IS UP FOR A REZONING HEARING THIS WEEK AND WOULD INVOLVE ADDING MORE THAN 200 APARTMENTS TO THE LEGACY ARBORETUM WHERE THERE ARE ALREADY, YOU KNOW, ABOUT 260 APARTMENTS, I BELIEVE THERE.

SO YOU'RE ADDING DENSITY TO AN AREA BUT IT IS FARTHER OUT, IT'S NOT SOUTH END, IT'S NOT UPTOWN.

>> UH-HUH >> IT'S WHERE WE'VE TRADITIONALLY SEEN SPRAWLING GROWTH.

AND WE'VE BEEN SEEING THIS TREND FOR YEARS IN CHARLOTTE, WHERE THERE IS A LOT OF DENSER DEVELOPMENT COMING TO AREAS THAT ARE AROUND THE CITY'S PERIPHERY.

YOU KNOW, PLACES LIKE WAVERLY, LIKE THE RIVER DISTRICT, TO THE WEST.

YOU KNOW, LIKE MINT HILL, THE MINT HILL AREA TO THE EAST, WHERE PREVIOUSLY YOU MIGHT HAVE SEEN A BUNCH OF SINGLE FAMILY SUBDIVISIONS AND NOW YOU'RE SEEING A LOT MORE APARTMENTS, DENSER APARTMENTS, MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT AND THAT'S WHERE THE CITY WANTS, IT'S WHAT THEY HAVE STATED THEY WANT, IT'S WHAT THE PLANS THEY WANT TO SEE ENACTED ARE REALLY DESIGNED TO DO.

BUT THESE ARE STILL AREAS THAT ARE FARTHER OUT, TO DON'T HAVE GREAT TRANSIT CONNECTIONS, THAT DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE GREAT ROAD INFRASTRUCTURE.

SO YOU'RE SEEING A LOT OF ANXIETY AROUND TRAFFIC AND AROUND, YOU KNOW, THE TRADITIONAL WORRIES THAT YOU SEE WHEN A REZONING HAPPEN, IS THIS GOING TO CAUSE MORE CONGESTION?

HOW ARE THE ROADS GOING TO HANDLE THIS?

AND THAT'S WHAT WE SAW FROM THESE NEIGHBORS IN THE LEGACY ARBORETUM AREA WHO ARE OPPOSED TO THIS DEVELOPMENT AND WERE ASKING THE CITY COUNCIL TO BLOCK IT.

>> AND TONY, YOU TALKED ABOUT HOW THE NEIGHBORS ARE FIGHTING IN THIS CASE WITH A LITTLE BIT OF TECHNOLOGY OF THEIR OWN, RIGHT?

>> IT WAS INTERESTING IS AT THE CITY COUNCIL PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS PROJECT, USUALLY NEIGHBORS GET UP AND THEY SAY IT WILL HAVE A BAD EFFECT ON TRAFFIC AND SCHOOLS AND EVERYBODY SORT OF NODS, BUT THIS TIME THEY CAME ARMED WITH A TWO-MINUTE DRONE VIDEO THAT SHOWED THE TRAFFIC ALONG PINEVILLE-MATTHEWS ROAD, IT WOULDN'T SURPRISE MANY.

IT WASN'T MOVING AT THE TIME THAT THE PROVIDENCE SCHOOL OPENED ON A WEEKDAY, YOU KNOW, AND THEY DID THAT REALLY TO COUNTER, THERE WAS THE DEVELOPER HAD A TRAFFIC STUDY, A VERY RESPECTED TRAFFIC ENGINEERING FIRM, THAT SAID, YOU KNOW, IT'S ONLY A COUPLE OF HUNDRED APARTMENTS, IT'S NOT THAT MUCH TRAFFIC.

LOOK, WE DID OUR OWN TRAFFIC STUDY.

WE LIVE IT EVERY DAY AND HERE'S THE VIDEO.

THE COUNCIL MEMBERS SEEMED PRETTY IMPRESSED BY THAT >> AND THE QUESTION THAT IT RAISES IS, YOU KNOW, ONE, THE CITY HAS BEEN SAYING FOR YEARS AND YEARS, THEY WANT MORE DENSITY, THEY WANT MORE DENSITY, THEY WANT MORE DENSITY, BUT WHEN THE, YOU KNOW, THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD, AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS FIGHTING BACK, AGAINST SOME OF THAT DENSITY, WHERE IS CITY COUNCIL GOING TO FALL ON THIS?

ARE THEY GOING TO SAY, ACTUALLY, NO, WE DON'T WANT THAT DENSITY, OR ARE THEY GOING TO SAY, LISTEN, WE WANT MORE APARTMENTS, WE WANT MORE DENSITY, YEAH, WE'RE GOING TO LET THEM BRING IT IN, EVEN THOUGH THE NEIGHBORS ARE OPPOSED TO IT.

AND THE OTHER QUESTION IS, AS DEVELOPMENTS LIKE THIS COME UP, PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE HERE.

IF YOU DON'T ALLOW DEVELOPMENTS LIKE THIS, DO THEY JUST GET PUSHED TO, YOU KNOW, WAXHAW, MONROE, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE DRIVING IN ON PROVIDENCE AND PINEVILLE-MATTHEWS ROAD AND ALL OF THOSE ROADS ANYWAY, JUST DRIVING FARTHER, THOSE ARE TWO KIND OF BIG PICTURE QUESTIONS, THAT ARE WORTH THINKING ABOUT HERE.

>> AND THE ISSUE TO COME, WHAT DO YOU DO AS IT RELATES TO THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO TAKE MAKE SURE ALL OF IT WORKS.

>> RIGHT.

IT IS INTERESTING THOUGH, THAT NEIGHBORS ARE FINDING A NEW TOOL THAT THEY'VE OFTEN FELT OUT MANNED AND OUT GUNNED, IF YOU WILL, BY THOSE DEVELOPERS, ON SOME OF THOSE BIG PROJECTS, BUT THAT USE OF DRONE FOOTAGE OVER THE NUMBERS THAT WERE IN THE TRAFFIC STUDY, REALLY SEEMED TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE COUNSEL COUNCIL MEMBERS WHO MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN AS FAMILIAR WITH THE AREA AND GOT A CHANCE TO SEE IT THROUGH THE EYES OF THE NEIGHBORS THAT LIVE THAT TRAFFIC EVERY DAY.

INTERESTING.

IN RALEIGH, THEY TALKED A LOT AND SEEM TO BE ON THE VERGE OF PASSING A BILL THIS WEEK ALLOWING SPORTS BETTING IN NORTH CAROLINA, BUT WHEN THE VOTES WERE COUNTED, YOU KNOW, ALL BETS ARE OFF, APPARENTLY FOR NOW.

THE BILL DID NOT PASS.

ANYONE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE POLITICS OF SPORTS BETTING AND WHY SOMETHING THAT LOOKED LIKE A SURE BET AT ONE POINT, NOW LOOKS LIKE IT'S, YOU KNOW, A LONG SHOT, IF YOU WILL.

>> 3-1 ODDS SO I WAS VERY DISAPPOINTED IN THAT.

[ LAUGHTER ] BUT BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A VERY CLOSE VOTE, ONE-VOTE MARGIN, JEFF, AND, YOU KNOW, YOU HEARD A RANGE OF OBJECTIONS FROM HEY, THIS IS NOT BIBLICAL, TO HEY, THIS IS REALLY GOING TO HURT FOLKS WHO CAN LEAST AFFORD IT, SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAVE ALLOWED, YOU KNOW, BETTING LOUNGES, BANK OF AMERICA STADIUM, SPECTRUM CENTER, BUT NOT BE COMPLETELY DEAD YET, IT MIGHT BE THIS SESSION BUT IT WILL CERTAINLY COME BACK.

>> AND HAD SOME -- POLITICS MAKES STRANGE BEDFELLOWS, WE HAD CONSERVATIVES AND LIBERALS AND DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS, KIND OF TAKING CHOOSING UPSIDES BUT TOGETHER WHEN THEY'RE APART, THIS IS A DIVISIVE THING.

AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING NEW, A LOT OF OTHER STATES ARE DOING THIS NEW, IT REPRESENTS A LOT OF REVENUE FOR THE STATE AT SOME POINT.

>> AND, YOU KNOW, NORTH CAROLINA DOESN'T HAVE MEDICAL MARIJUANA, WHICH A LOT OF STATES HAVE PASSED, RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA, AND IT WAS ONLY A FEW YEARS AGO THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE BRUNCH BILL AND WHETHER PEOPLE COULD BUY MIMOSAS BEFORE NOON, SO EVEN THOUGH THIS IS A PURPLE STATE, WITH KIND OF A PROGRESSIVE NEW SOUTH SHINE ABOUT IT A LOT OF THE TIME, WE MOVE PRETTY SLOWLY ON A LOT OF THESE ISSUES, EVEN COMPARED TO OUR NEIGHBOR, SOMETIMES >> YEAH, THIS MAY NOT BE DEAD BUT IT'S ON LIFE SUPPORT RIGHT NOW, I SUPPOSE IN RALEIGH, AND WE'LL SEE IF IT COMES BACK EESHTH THIS SESSION OR IN THE FUTURE SESSION.

WE'VE GOT TO TALK ABOUT BRUTON SMITH, PASSED AAWAY THIS WEEK AT AGE 95, COLORFUL, COMBATIVE, SUCCESSFUL A LOT OF FOLKS, HE'S BEEN AROUND FOR SO LONG, AND HAS MADE SUCH AN IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY IN SO MANY WAYS, AND WE COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS >> I THINK BRUTON, IN HIS OWN WAY WAS MORE THAN A ONE-TRICK-PONY, BECAUSE YOU LOOK AT SO MANY OF THE THINGS THAT HE WAS INVOLVED IN, YOU KNOW, IF IT WEREN'T FOR BRUTON SMITH IN SOME REGARDS THERE WOULDN'T BE A NASCAR HALL OF FAME DOWNTOWN, AND I GUESS, THE POINT THAT I'M TRYING TO GET TO, IS BRUTON DID A LOT TO TRY THE ECONOMY HERE, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS ALL OF THE RACING EVENTS THAT WE HAVE AND WHEN YOU BRING, YOU KNOW, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, TO OUR TOWNS OR OUR CITY WHO SPEND MONEY IN HOTELS AND WELL BEYOND THE SPEEDWAY ON HIGHWAY 29, I MEAN, HE WAS THE GUY THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THE COFFERS, YOU KNOW, THAT AS FAR AS TAX REVENUES AND THE LIKE.

YOU KNOW, THE OTHER SIDE, TOO, IN THE HUMANITARIAN SIDE THAT BRUTON AND SPEEDWAY CHARITIES HAVE A -- THEY HAVE GIVEN A WAY TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO CHILDREN'S CAUSES AROUND THE COUNTRY.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER THING AS IT RELATES TO BRUTON, EVEN THOUGH THE SONIC AUTOMOTIVE GROUPS AND THE DEALERSHIPS, SOMEBODY AS POWERFULL AND WEALTHY AS BRUTON, WOULD ALWAYS BE IN HIGH PLACES, IF YOU WANTED AN INTERVIEW WITH BRUTON SOMEDAY, ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS GO TO TOWN AND COUNTRY FORD ON INDEPENDENCE BOULEVARD.

>> HE IS A BILLIONAIRE THAT DIDN'T TALK OR LOOK OR LIVE IN MANY WAYS LIKE A BILLIONAIRE.

AND AN INNOVATOR, TOO, HE REALLY CHANGED NASCAR, THE LIGHTS ON THE TRACK AT CHARLOTTE MOTOR SPEEDWAY, THAT WAS THE FIRST THAT A LOT OF FOLKS DIDN'T THINK WOULD SUCCEED IN RACING AND NOW IT CHANGED THE SPORTS AND TURNED IT INTO A TV SPORTS IN MANY WAYS THAT IT WASN'T BEFORE.

I, A REAL INNOVATOR AND A LOSS FOR THE COMMUNITY AND WE WISH THE FAMILY WELL.

>> MONKEY POX HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT IN THE NATIONAL NEWS, WE SAW THE FIRST CASE HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA, AND IDENTIFIED BY THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT.

NOBODY WANTS TO SEE THIS, I SUPPOSE.

BUT IT IS, I MEAN, WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY WHERE, YOU KNOW, THESE THINGS DON'T GET COME CONFINED TO ONE PARTICULAR REGION.

ANYTHING THAT WE SHOULD BE OVERLY CONCERNED ABOUT AT THIS POINT?

>> THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT SAID THAT THIS IS PRIMARILY SPREAD BY PROLONGED CLOSE CONTACT, PHYSICAL CONTACT WITH PEOPLE.

WHO ARE INFECTED.

YOU KNOW, IT HAS LESIONS, CAN BE CONFUSED WITH HERPES, APPEARS TO BE SPREAD SOMETIMES THROUGH SEXUAL CONTACT.

SO IT SEEMS LIKE THEY ARE TRYING TO SAY, HEY, THIS IS NOT COVID PART TWO, THIS IS NOT, YOU KNOW, A CRAZY CONTAGIOUS THING THAT IS FLOATING THROUGH THE AIR.

BUT, YOU KNOW, AT THE SAME TIME, YOU'RE ALSO SEEING A LOT OF MEDIA STORIES, RIGHT NOW, I JUST READ IN "THE WASHINGTON POST" TODAY, HEY, THE U.S. IS MAKING THE SAME MISSTEPS THAT IT MADE AT THE START OF COVID IN TERMS OF UNDERESTIMATE THINGS LIKE SPREAD, SO IT'S CERTAINLY NOT SOMETHING THAT ANYBODY WANTS TO SEE AGAIN RIGHT NOW.

JUST AS WE COME OUT OF A -- THE LAST TWO-AND-A-HALF PANDEMIC YEARS.

>> I THINK COVID HAS RAISED THE AWARENESS ON A LOT OF THESE DISEASES AND THE THREAT THAT THEY POSE WHEN THEY SPREAD.

TOLL LANES, VERY QUICKLY, BUSINESS NORTH CAROLINA, THERE'S TALK ABOUT TOLL LANES FROM UP -- TONY, DO YOU WANT -- >> NO, I DON'T THINK ANYTHING IS COMING ANY TIME SOON ON THAT, YOU KNOW, [ LAUGHTER ] THAT'S SORT OF DESCRIBES YOUR EXPERIENCE ON 77, YOU'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE ANY TIME SOON BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF CONGESTION.

HOW DO YOU PAY TO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE EXPAND A SECTION THAT NEEDS TO BE EXPANDED WHERE THERE'S A LOT OF TRAFFIC CONGESTION AND OF COURSE THE STATE, YOU KNOW, SHORT ON MONEY, TO DO A LOT OF ROAD PROJECTS AND SO, IF YOU HAVE A TOLL PROJECT, THAT'S -- THAT COULD SPEED IT UP.

OBVIOUSLY, THERE'S A LOT OF ANGST ABOUT, YOU KNOW, TOLL LANES ON I-77.

THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE UP IN HUNTERSVILLE AND DAVIDSON ARE STILL MAD ABOUT THAT.

CERTAINLY NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ANY TIME SOON >> AND NOT WHEN ALL OF THE POLITICS THAT MAKE THOSE DECISIONS ARE RUNNING IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION.

KRISPY KREME ICE CREAM, ANYONE GOING TO LINE UP AND SIGN UP FOR THAT?

.

>> JUST IN TIME FOR THE HEAT WAVE, RIGHT?

>> [ LAUGHTER ] >> I'M WAITING TO SEE WHAT DUNKIN' DONUTS IS GOING TO DO >> DO THEY HAVE IT AT THE VENDING MACHINE, AT THE KRISPY KREME VENDING MACHINE.

>> I'M ALL IN, I GUARANTEE YOU.

WE'RE JUST ABOUT OUT OF TIME, THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION, GREAT DISCUSSION THIS WEEK.

AND AT HOME, IF YOU'VE GOT QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, ABOUT WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT THIS WEEK, OR WHAT WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT IN THE FUTURE, SEND THEM OFFTHERECORD@WTVI.ORG, WE'LL SEE YOU OFF THE TIME ON "OFF THE RECORD."

>>> A PRODUCTION OF PBS CHARLOTTE.