>> THAT WEEING ON OFF THE RECORD, CHARLOTTE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS STILL DON'T AGREE ON THE FUTURE OF CHARLOTTE NEIGHBORHOODS BUT THEY DID FINALLY VOTE ON IT THIS WEEK.

ALSO WHY ISN'T CITY HALL TELLING US THE REAL COST OF CHARLOTTE'S FUTURE TRANSIT SYSTEM?

IS IT 8 BILLION OR 12 BILLION OR MAYBE 20 BILLION?

THE PRESIDENT IN NORTH CAROLINA TRYING TO GIVE A SHOT IN THE ARM TO, YOU KNOW, GETTING A SHOT IN THE ARM, AND WHO WON THE STATE'S VACCINE LOTTERY?

PLUS, NO SHOWS AT CMS' COVID SUMMER SCHOOL.

WHERE IS EVERYBODY?

FORECLOSURE AT A LOCAL MALL.

WHAT DOES RETAIL LOOK LIKE AFTER COVID?

CHARLOTTE'S NEWEST STADIUM IS ALSO CHARLOTTE'S OLDEST STADIUM AND ELTON JOHN COMING TO BANK OF AMERICA STADIUM.

YOU CAN BUY TICKETS NEXT WEEK.

TOO BAD THE CONCERT ISN'T UNTIL NEXT YEAR.

LOTS TO TALK ABOUT NEXT ON PBS CHARLOTTE.

[ THEME MUSIC ] ♪♪ AND FROM OUR PBS CHARLOTTE STUDIO IN HISTORIC PLAZA MIDWOOD, WE'RE OFF THE RECORD TALKING ABOUT THE STORIES YOU'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.

IF YOU WATCH THE NEWS, READE THE NEWS AND LISTEN TO THE NEWS, YOU'LL RECOGNIZE THE NAMES AND FACES AROUND OUR VIRTUAL TABLE.

DEDRICK RUSSELL FROM WBTV.

ELI FROM UNC CHARLOTTE URBAN INSTITUTE AND DANIELLE FROM AXIO CHARLOTTE.

YOU CAN JOIN THE CONVERSATION.

EMAIL YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS TO OFF THE RECORD@WTVI.ORG.

WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE 2040 PLAN VOTE FOR WEEKS AND WEEKS.

WAITING FOR SOMETHING TO CHANGE.

PEOPLE DUG IF ON THEIR POSITIONS AT CITY COUNCIL.

MAYBE COMPROMISING OR NOT COMPROMISING BUT THE VOTE FINALLY CAME THIS WEEK AND IT CAME OUT LIKE WE EXPECTED ANYONE WANT TO TAKE FIRST SWIPE AT WHERE WE ARE ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE?

THE FUTURE OF CHARLOTTE NEIGHBORHOODS AND ZONINGT IN THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINKHI WE SAW, TO PARAPHRASE SOMEONE ELSE, THEAR END OF THE BEGINNING.

WE STILL HAVE THE DETAILED REWRITE OF CHARLOTTE'S ZONING ORDINANCE, DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS COMING FORWARD SO WE'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT MORE DETAILED ON HOW THIS GETS DETAILED OVER THE NEXT WEEKS AND MONTHS.

W WE ARE, AS EXPECTED, 20940 PLAN OVERALL VISION PASSED ON AAS 6-5 VOTE.

ONE THING THAT I THINK IS NOTABLE ABOUT THIS IS HOW LITTLE ENDED UP CHANGING IN THE END.

WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS.

WE'VE SEEN DOZENS, IF NOT HUNDRED PLUS HOURS OF DEBATE AMONG CITY COUNCILMEMBERS, BUT MOST OF IT STAYED PRETTY MUCH THE SAME.

WE STILL HAVE THE CHANGES TO SINGLE FAMILY ONLY ZONING WHICH WOULD ALLOW DUPLEXES AND TRIPLEXES IN MOST AREAS OF THE CITY, MOST NEIGHBORHOODS.

EFFORTS TO OVERTURN AND STOP THAT FAILED.

CONTROVERSIAL ELEMENTS LIKE CHARGING DEVELOPERS, IMPACT FEES OR COMMUNITY BENEFIT AGREEMENTS TO PAY FOR NEIGHBORHOOD IMPROVEMENTS STAYED IN THE PLAN AS ASPIRATIONAL GOALS THAT THE CITY WILL TRY TO IMPLEMENT AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE.

SO IN THE END, THE VISION THAT WE'VE GOT RIGHT NOW IS SUBSTANTIVELY THE SAME AS WHAT WAS UNVEILED AND KICKED OFF A LOT OF CONTROVERSY LAST YEAR.

>> AND I WONDERED WHAT A 6-5 VOTE THAT SPARKED CONFIDENCE OF THE PLAN WITHIN THE COMMUNITY AND IN TALKING TO COUNCILMEMBER MALCOLM GRAHAM, HE SAID THAT THIS IS NOT A PERFECT PLAN, BUT IT IS MOVING US IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND TALKING TO HIM, HE DID NOT THINK THAT PEOPLE WOULD BE STUCK ON A 6-5 VOTE THAT THEY WOULD SAY, HEY, THAT CHARLOTTE NOW HAS A FRAMEWORK FOR THE VISION ON HOW IT WILL CONDUCT ITSELF IN THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS.

HE ALSO POINTED OUT THAT THIS IS A LIVING DOCUMENT.

SO MEANING THAT AT ANY TIME THAT THERE COULD BE CHANGES AND TEN YEARS DOWN THE ROAD WHAT THEY DECIDED NOW IS NOT WORKING THAT IT IS A LIVINGIV DOCUMENT AND THEY CAN AMEND AND DO SOME THINGS.

I THINK PROBABLY NEED TO KNOW WHAT THEY VOTED ON THAT THIS IS JUST A LIVING DOCUMENT AND CHANGES CAN HAPPEN IF NEED BE.

>> I THINK WHAT'S REALLY REMARKABLE ABOUT HOW DIVISIVE THIS HAS BEEN IS NOTHING IS ACTUALLY IMPLEMENTED.

LIKE THIS IS AN ASPIRATIONAL DOCUMENT.

SO SINGLE FAMILY ZONING, THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL PART OF IT, THAT HASN'T ACTUALLY CHANGED YET.

THIS WILL COME WHEN THE UDODO OR THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE REWRITE COMES SO I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE-- I MEAN, IF B WE WERE THIS DIVISIVE OVER A PLANNING DOCUMENT ESSENTIALLY AND WENG HAVE SO MANY PLANNING DOCUMENTS OVER THE YEARS THAT Y HAVE SAT ON THE SHELF AND YOU KNOW, THEY SAY THEY DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPENN THIS TIME, WELL IN ORDER TO DO THAT, THEY HAVE TO CHANGE THE REGULAR LACES.

THAT'S I THINK VERY BITTER FIGHT THAT'S GOINGTE TO COME NEXT.

>> YEAH.T.

THE DEVIL'S IN THE DETAILS, THEY SAY.

IN THIS CASE, THE DEVIL WAS IN THEE BROAD OVERLOOK AS WELL.

WHAT I GUESS IT EXPOSED AT ONE POINT ON CITY COUNCIL, NOT JUSTNC THE DEEP DIVISIONS BUT THEN FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, SOME DEMOCRATS CROSSED OVERD WITH THE REPUBLICANS O AND VOTED AGAINST THIS.

YOU KNOW, A LOT OF FOLKS TRIED TO FRAME THIS AS A MYERS PARK-EASTOVER VERSUS THE WORLD KIND OF THING BUTT A LOT OF LOWER INCOME NEIGHBORHOODS ALSO FACE IN THEIR MINDS SOME THE CHALLENGES THAT THE OLDER, ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOODS IS, WILL THIS CHANGE WHAT THEY HAVE NOW?

MOSTLY OWNERSHIP NEIGHBORHOODS VERSUS RENTAL, GENTRIFICATION AND ALL THESE ISSUES HAVEN'T BEEN SOLVED.

WE'RE MOVING ON FROM THEM, BUT CAN THE DETAILS OF THIS PLAN, YOU KNOW, FIX WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IS WRONG WITH THIS PLAN?

THAT'S MY QUESTION.

ANY THOUGHTS?

[LAUGHTER] >> WELL, I GUESS-- YEAH.

>> CITY COUNCIL.

>> NOT YET.

>> EXACTLY.

I GUESS THAT SHOWS HOW WE NEED PEOPLE ON CITY COUNCIL TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY CAN TACKLE THESE HARD ISSUES WHEN WE GO TO THE POLLS WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GRILL THE CANDIDATES AND SAY, DO YOU HAVE THE WHEREWITHAL, DO YOU HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE, DO YOU HAVE THE STRATEGIES TO HELP US LIVE BETTER LIVES?

BUT I THINK THAT THEY PROBABLY ARE PUSHING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD.AD THEY PROBABLY DON'T KNOW THE RIGHT ANSWER OR THE RIGHT ANSWER TODAY MAY NOT BE THE RIGHT ANSWER FIVE YEARS FROM NOW.

I THINK HAVING SOMETHING THAT IT'S A START, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

IT'S A START.

SO THEREFORE, IF WE NEED TO MAKE CHANGES AS WE GO ALONG, LET'S MAKE THOSE CHANGES.

LET'S SEE HOW IT'S GOING TO GO BEFORE WE DO SOMETHING THAT WE WILL REGRET LATER ON >> I THINK THAT'S WHAT IS NOTABLE, TOO, ABOUT THE SINGLE FAMILY ZONING POSITION, IN PARTICULAR, AS IT RELATES TO THE QUESTION IS WE REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE IMPACT IS GOING TO BE.

BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A NEW CONCEPT.

MINNEAPOLIS WAS THE FIRST MAJOR U.S. CITY TO DO IT AND THAT WAS BACK IN 2018 AND I DON'T THINK THOSE RULES TOOK EFFECT UNTIL 2020.

SO YOU KNOW, THE ARGUMENT BEING WE WANT OR THE EMERGENCY PROGRAMMING COMING UP?

CAN I ASK A QUESTION, AND IT'S PROBABLY NOT RELATED EXACTLY TO THIS.SING SUPPLY, YOU KNOW, BEING ABLE NCNCUILD DUPLEXES.

OBVIOUSLY, YOU CAN BUILD MORE DENSITY THAN IF YOU BUILD A SINGLE FAMILY HOME.

THERE ARE BENEFITS OF DENSITY BEYOND THE AFFORDABILITY ARGUMENT AND SPRAWL, AND YOU WANT TO COMBAT SPRAWL AND THINGS LIKE THAT THE QUESTION REMAINS HOW MUCH ARE PEOPLE GOING TO USE IT.

OUR PARTNERS IN MINNEAPOLIS TOOK AN ANALYSIS AND THERE WERE A FEW DOZEN DUPLEXES THAT WERE BUILT, NEW DUPLEXES AND GRANTED THAT WAS IN THE FIRST YEAR, BUT IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE KIND OF WHETHER THAT POLICY MAKES A DENT OR IN THE OTHER CAMP, AS WE'RE MENTIONING, SOME OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE CONCERNED ABOUT IT THAT ARERE IN THE TRADITIONALLY CRESCENT NEIGHBORHOODS SO TO SPEAK, THEY'RE WORRIED THAT IF YOU COME IN AND-- WELL,EL IF YOU MAKE IT KIND OF INCENTIVIZE IT FOR DEVELOPERS TO BUILD DUPLEXES, THEY MIGHT ACTUALLY TEAR DOWN SOME OF THESE SMALLER RANCH-STYLE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, MAYBE 800 SQUARE FOOT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVE LIVED IN FOR A LONG TIME AND ACCELERATE SOME OF THESE GENTRIFICATION TRENDS.

THERE'S NOT A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE AS TO WHAT THE OUTCOME WILL BE.

BUT AS YOU WERE MENTIONING, LIKE IT IS A DOCUMENT THAT CAN BE CHANGED.

SO THE QUESTION IS, LIKE WILL COUNCIL LOOK AT THE IMPACT DOWN THE LINE AND BE WILLING TO MAKE CHANGES IF IT IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THEY EXPECT?

>> YEAH.

I THINK THAT A LOT OF THOSE BIGHO QUESTIONS THAT YOU ALLUDED TO REALLY ARE BEYOND CITY COUNCIL'S PURVIEW, IN, SOME WAYS.

YOU KNOW WE HAVE A HISTORIC HOUSING SHORTAGE.

WE'VE GOT PRICES GOING UP.

WE'VE GOT TRENDS OF GENTRIFICATION RESHAPING NEIGHBORHOODS AND CITY COUNCIL AND LOCALY DEVELOPMENT RULES CAN SET A BROAD FRAMEWORK FOR THAT BUT A LOT OF WHAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR HERE, YOU KNOW, ARE GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAY.

WE'VE HAD GENTRIFICATION HAPPENING.

WE HAD THE SMALLER RANCH HOUSES TORN DOWN AND REPLACED BY SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES AND F WE HAD THESE TRENDS GOING ON FOR A LONGON TIME.

LOT OF WAYS WE SAW A LOT OF FIGHTS ABOUT ISSUES COALESCING IN THIS DOCUMENT THAT, YOU KNOW, AT BEST THIS DOCUMENT CAN ADDRESS ASPIRATIONALLY, SYMBOLICALLY AND MAYBE, YOU KNOW, DOWN THE ROAD 10, 20 YEARS SORT OF WAY, BUT WHAT'S HAPPENING NEXT YEAR, NEXT MONTH IN THESE NEIGHBORHOODS IS GOING TO LOOK THE SAME.E.

I MEAN, WE HAVEN'T EVEN IMPLEMENTED THE NEW RULES YET.

THAT'S GOING TO BE A COUPLE OF YEARS AT LEAST AND EVEN THEN, I MEAN, IN THIS MARKET-BASED SYSTEM WE HAVE, THE MARK HE-- THE MARKET DYNAMICS WILL CONTINUE TO WORK AFTER THIS PLAN IS COMPLETED AND IMPLEMENTED.

IN A LOT OF WAYS, I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO BE AS HUGE AS PEOPLE THINK ON EITHER SIDE OF THE ISSUE.

>> IT'S A LOTF OF STRIFE TO GO THROUGH FOR A PLAN IF IT DOESN'T MAKE THE KINDS OF CHANGES THAT IT'S INTENDED TO MAKE EITHER OVER THE SHORT TERM OR THE LONG TERM.

HEY, ONE MORE QUESTION ON THIS.

FORMER MAYOR PAT McCRORY WHO IS RUNNING FOR SENATE NOW SENT OUT A TEXT THIS WEEK THAT SAYS, QUOTE, THE LIBERALS AREN'T KIDDING.

THEY WANT TO DESTROY YOUR QUALITY OF LIFE.

USING THE FAKE NARRATIVE OF SOCIAL JUSTICE, UNQUOTE.

HOW MUCH OF WHAT WE'VE HEARD OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS, DEBATE ON COUNCIL, HOW MUCH OF THAT IS GOING TO BECOME A CAMPAIGN ISSUE?

NOT NECESSARILY IN THE SENATE RACE BUT THE NEXT CITY COUNCIL RACE?

COUNCILMEMBERS WORKING TOGETHER.

I MEAN, WE HEARD SOME COUNCILMEMBERS CALLING OTHERS RACIST AND DEG SEGREGATIONIST AND ONE CALLING FOR ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER TO BE FIRED.

IS THIS A SIGN THAT THOSE DAYS OF CIVIL DISCOURSE ARE MAYBE PAST AND WE'RE ENTERING THE NEW REALM THAT OTHER POLITICAL BODIES ARE ALREADY IN RIGHT NOW IN TERMS OF SHARP COMMENTS BACK AND FORTH?

>> YEAH.

I SAW THAT COMMENT, THAT TWEET FROM PAT McCRORY AND IT REALLY ECHOS THE RHETORIC THAT WE HEARD FROM DONALD TRUMP DURING THE 2020 CAMPAIGN ABOUT DEMOCRATS WANTING TO DESTROY THE SUBURBS AND I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A WILL THE OF THAT FILTER DOWN TO THE STATE LEVEL AND THE LOCALO LEVEL.

I COVERED CITY COUNCIL FOR MOST OF THE 010s AND I REMEMBER DURING THE HB2 FIGHT, THERE WAS NOT A LOT OF CIVILITY GOING ON THEN.

I WAS IN PRETTY DIVISIVE MEETINGS SO I THINK IN SOME WAYS THAT OLD CHARLOTTE WAY HAS KIND OF PASSED ALREADY.

BUT I DO THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE MORE AND MORE OF THAT NATIONAL POLITICAL RHETORIC AND THAT STUFF SEEPING DOWN TO THE LOCAL LEVEL WHERE MAYBE WE HAVE AVOIDED SOME OF IT SO ARE FA.

>> I THINK ESPECIALLY IT HAS BEEN THE PRIORITY OF BIDEN, TOO.

IT'S IN THE INFRASTRUCTURE PLAN ACTUALLY TO INCENTIVIZE CITIES, NOT JUST SINGLE FAMILY ZONING, OTHER ZONING POLICIES THAT KIND OF INHIBIT DENSITY.

SO PARKING MINIMUMS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

I THINK IT CONTINUES TO BE AFTER THEE DONALD TRUMP CAMPAIGN A NATIONAL ISSUE AND THAT ALSO MAKES IT MORE OF A POLITICAL ISSUE NATIONALLY WHEN CITIES LIKE CHARLOTTE DO IT.

IT GETS A LOT MORE ATTENTION.

>> TIME WILL TELL IF THAT WILL RESONATE WITH VOTERS BECAUSE AT THE END VOT OF THE DAY, VOTERS WANT CHANGE.

AND YOU HAVE TO-- VOTERS HAVES TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE NOT DISTRACTED FROM WHAT THE REAL ISSUE IS.

YEAH.

YOU CANAH NAME CALL.

YOU CAN DO THIS.

THAT CAN BE A DISTRACTION.

YOU CAN NAME CALL, BUT HEY, I'M STILL NOT MAKING A FAIR WAGE.

YOU CAN DO ALL OF THIS AND CALL PEOPLE RACISTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, MY LIFE IS STILL NOT GETTING BETTER.

VOTERS JUST HAVE TO-- I THINK VOTERS ARE GOING TO BE MOREE LEANING IN MORE BECAUSE WITH EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE GONE THROUGH, PANDEMIC AND THINGS LIKE THAT, I THINK VOTERS NOW ARE GOING TO BE VERY SENSITIVE AND ZERO IN ON GET PAST THE NAME-CALLING AND FIGURE OUT IF I VOTE FORT IE YOU ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE LIFE BETTER FOR ME, MY MY MY FAMILY, MY COUNTY AND >> FORT IF ALL I POLITICS ISY LD NOW IT'S THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

ALL POLITICS STARTS AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL AND THOSE ARGUMENTS DRIBBLE DOWN INTO OUR LOCAL LEVEL.

WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THE CITY COUNCIL WILL RUN AGAIN.

WHEN THEY DO AND THAT'S ANOTHER STORY FOR ANOTHER WEEK.

WE'LL SEE HOW THIS FOR IMPACTS THE NEXT CITY COUNCIL RACE.

SPEAKING OF CITY HALL, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE MOBILITY TAX THIS WEEK.

SOME FINE REPORTING BOTH OUR FRIEND STEVE HARRISON OVER AT WFAE WHO TALKED ABOUT HOW THE CITY WAS HIDING SOME OF THE POLLING THAT THEY WERE DOING ON THE MOBILITY TAX AND THEN DAVID HODGES AT WBTV TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY ALSO MAY BE HIDING SOME OF THE COSTS INVOLVED.

I KNOW YOU WRITE A LOT ABOUT TRANSIT AND MOBILITY, ELI.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF ALL THIS ?

OBVIOUSLY, A LOT AT STAKE WITH WHETHER THIS EVER GETS TO THE BALLOT OR NOT, BUT THE DIFFERENCE IN COST ISFE $8 BILLION BETWEEN WHAT'S IN THE DETAILS AND WHAT WE'RE HEARING ABOUT PUBLICLY THAT'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE, ISN'T IT?

>> YEAH.

I THINK A LOT OF THAT WILL COME DOWN TO THE FACT THAT WHAT WE'VE SEEN SO FAR ARE REALLY KIND OF BACK OF THE NAPKIN CALCULATIONS.

8 TO 12 BILLION HAS BEEN PUBLICLY QUOTED FIGURE FOR THE COST OF THE CHARLOTTE MOVES PLAN WHICH WOULD INCLUDE BUILDING THE SILVER LINE, ENHANCING BUS SERVICE, BUILDING MORE GREENWAYS, TRAILS, BIKES, IMPROVING ROADS AND THAT SORT OF STUFF.

WE HAVEN'T SEEN A DETAILED ANALYSIS YET AND THE REPORTING FROM WBTV THIS WEEK SHOWED THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S INTERNAL CITY DOCUMENTS THAT SAY, WELL, THIS COST COULD BE 20 BILLION.

IT COULD BE MORE.

WE DO EXPECT STAFF TO COME WITH AN UPDATED ESTIMATE NEXT WEEK AT CITY COUNCIL, BUT I THINK WHAT WE'VE SEEN SO FAR IS KIND OF THIS OVERALL CATCH-ALL, THIS IS HOW MUCH IT COULD COST IN AN ATTEMPT TO GET SUPPORT FOR THIS ONE CENTPPO TAX WHICH WOULD BE NEEDED TO FUND IT.

WHAT WE REALLY HAVEN'T SEEN IS THIS IS HOW MUCH THE SILVER LINE WOULD COST, THIS IS HOW MUCH THE BUSES WOULD COST.

THIS IS HOW MUCH THESE ROADS WOULD COST.

I THINK ESPECIALLY IF CHARLOTTE DOESN'T GET THE AUTHORITY OR WIN THE FULL ONE CENT SALES TAX FROM THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND VOTERS AT THE BALLOT BOX, THEN WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOKOOK AND SAY, OKAY, IF THE SILVER LINE COSTS $8 BILLION, IS THAT WHERE WE WANT TO SPEND MOST OF THE MONEY WE GET?

WE REALLY HAVEN'T SEEN THAT KIND OF DETAILED TRADEOFF ANALYSIS YET.

THAT'S WHAT'S COMING NEXT.

MUCH LIKE THE 2040 PLAN, THOSE DETAILS ARE WHERE THINGS ARE GOING TO GET MESSY, I THINK.

>> COMMUNICATION IS KEY IN TALKING TO CITY LEADERS TALKING ABOUT THIS.

THEY ADMIT THAT CITY STAFF HAS TO DO A BETTER JOB IN COMMUNICATING WITH THEHE PUBLIC TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S UNDERSTANDING AND MAKE SURE YOU'RE FORTHRIGHT AND ALL OF THIS PLAYING AROUND, THINGS LIKE THAT IS NOT GOOD.

SO CITY LEADERS DO ADMIT THAT CITY STAFF HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB AND WE WILL SEE WHEN THEY COME BACK, IF THEY HAVE LEARNED THEIR LESSON TO MAKE SURE THAT COMMUNICATION IS CLEAR SO EVERYBODY CAN WALK AWAY AND BE ON THE SAME PAGE.

>> MY SENSE IT'S HARD NOT TO SELL VOTERS ULTIMATELY ON SOMETHING THIS EXPENSIVE.

IT GETS EVEN HARDER WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO SELL THEM ON SOMETHING EXPENSIVE AND THEY GET THE SENSE THAT YOU'RE NOT TELLING THEM EVERYTHING THEY NEED TO T KNOW, THAT YOU ARE SUGARCOATING THE DOLLAR FIGURES TO MAKE YOUR CASE SOUND AND LOOK BETTER.

SO OBVIOUSLY WE HAVEN'T HEARD THE END OF THIS.

YOU PROBABLY WILL HEAR MORE NEXT WEEK WHEN CITY COUNCIL GETS A NEW LOOK AT WHAT WE THINK ARE GOING TO BE NEW COST FIGURES.

AGAIN, IT SEEMS LIKE A STUMBLE AT LEAST EARLY ON IN THIS WHOLE PROCESS OF A POSSIBLE MOBILITY TAX TO PAY FOR THAT NEW TRANSIT SYSTEM AND THE EXPANSION OF THE TRANSIT SYSTEM.

PRESIDENT BIDEN AND HE WAS IN RALEIGH THIS WEEK PUSHING HIS EFFORT TO GET 70% OF THE COUNTRY VACCINATED BY THE 4th OF JULY.

THAT'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO HAPPEN BUT IN SOME STATES LIKE NORTH CAROLINA, WE'RE FALLING BEHIND EVEN THE AVERAGE RIGHT NOW.

I GUESS WE'RE 10, 15 POINTS BEHIND WHAT MOST OTHER STATES ARE AT RIGHT NOW.

ANY THOUGHTS ON WHERE WE ARERE WITH KIND OF NOT JUST THE VACCINE AND THE VACCINE RATE BUT WHERE WE ARE GETTING BACK TO NORMAL WHEN IT COMES TO EMPLOYERS BRINGING THEIR PEOPLE BACK, SCHOOLS DOING THEIR PART TO MAKE UP FOR WHAT THEY LOST DURING THE SCHOOL YEAR?

THERE'S A LOT OFOT MOVING PARTS IN THIS DISCUSSION.

YOUU KNOW, ANYONE WANT TO TAKE A FIRST SWIPE AT WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW AND WHERE WE'RE HEADED IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS AND MONTHS?

>> I THINK WHAT WE'RE GOING TO START TO SEE-- WE ALREADY STARTED TO SEE SMALL BUSINESSES COME BACK TO UPTOWN AND OTHER AREAS AND I THINK WHERE REALLY THE BIG SHIFT IS GOING TO BE IS THE BANKS ARE TARGETING THE FALL AND OTHER MAJOR CORPORATIONS TARGETING AFTER THE SCHOOL YEAR STARTS.

THAT I THINK WILL REALLY BE THE SIGN THAT THINGS ARE GOING BACK TO NORMAL WHEN IT COMES TO ESPECIALLY UPTOWN OFFICE WORKERS.

>> YEAH.

I WAS IN UPTOWN LAST WEEK AND IT'S A BIG CONTRAST ALREADY FROM JANUARY, WHEN IT WAS TOTALLY DEAD.

NOW IT'S STARTING TO FEEL HALFWAY BACK TO NORMAL.

YOU CAN'T JUST GET A STREET PARKING SPACE ANYWHERE.

SOME OF THE GARAGES ARE FILLING UP AGAIN.

IT'S LOOKING MORE NORMAL.

IF YOU LOOK AT NORTH CAROLINA'S VACCINATION TRENDS, THE NUMBERS OF SHOTS HAVE FALLEN OFF VERY SHARPLY SINCE THE PEAK IN APRIL WHEN I THINK WE WERE SEEING MORE THAN 600,000 DOSES TOTAL, FIRST AND SECOND ADMINISTERED IN ON A WEEKLY BASIS.

NOW WE'RE SEEING, YOU KNOW, SOMEWHERE IN THE HUNDRED THOUSANDS THE LAST FEW WEEKS SO WE'RE SEEING THAT SLOWDOWN AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE SEEING THESE T INCENTIVETE PROGRAMS TO TRY TO GET PEOPLE TO GET THE SHOT.

BECAUSE IF WE CONTINUE AT THE CURRENT RATE, IT'S GOING TO TAKENG A REALLY LONG TIME FOR A STATE TO HIT ITS TOTAL GOALS.

>> YOU THINK WHEN THE EMPLOYERS START BRINGING THEIR PEOPLE BACK, THAT'S WHEN WE WILL SEE MORE VACCINES BECAUSE OF SOME OF THE POLICIES THEY HAVE TO INCENTIVIZE THIS OR TO REQUIRE IT IN SOME CASES?

VACCINE TOTALS?

>> THAT'S HARD TO SAY BECAUSE THERE'S STILL VACCINE HESITANCY OUT THERE AND STUDIES SHOW, HEY, PEOPLE MAY QUIT THEIR JOBS, YOU KNOWS WHAT I MEAN?

BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING AFTER OPPORTUNITIES NOW.

AND ONE SAYS 40% OF PEOPLE COULD SAY, HEY, IF YOU ARE REQUIRING PEA TO GET A VACCINE, MAYBE I DON'T NEED TO WORK HERE ANYMORE BECAUSE THERE ARE OTHER OPPORTUNITIES OUT THERE AND SO THE BALL IS IN THE EMPLOYEES' HANDS RIGHT NOW.

I DO NOT KNOW THAT SINCE THE VACCINE AND THERE'S EMERGENCY USE AUTHORIZATION AND THERE HAS TO BE BEFORE THEY GIVE THE FINAL STAMP OF APPROVAL AND I DON'T KNOW IF PEOPLE ARE WAITING FOR THAT IN ORDER FOR THEM TO GET THE VACCINE, FOR THEM TO BELIEVE THAT HEY, THIS WILL NOT HARM ME.

HAND, WITH THEE MILLION DOLLARS, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST CURIOUS TO SEE HOW NORTH CAROLINA IS HE DOING TO DO A BIG PUBLIC RELATIONS WITH THIS.

INTERVIEW THE PERSON WHO GOT THE MILLION DOLLARS AND HOW THAT VACCINE SHOT CHANGED THEIR LIFE AND TALK TO A KID WHO GETS $125,000 TO GO TOWARD THEIR EDUCATION.

IT'S GOING TO BE VERY INTERESTING HOW THEY ROLLOL THAT OUT AND MOTIVATE PEOPLEEO TO SAY, HEY, I WANT TO GET IN ON THAT, TOO, AND LET ME GET THE SHOT.

IT'S GOING TO BE VERY INTERESTING ON HOW ALL OF THIS WILL PLAY TOGETHER.

>> T I WILL TAKE THE CALL.

[LAUGHTER] C IT DOES HAVE A GIMMICKY FEELING TO IT, DOESN'T IT, IN TERMS OF WHAT IT REALLY WILL MEAN OR WHAT KIND OF DENT IT WILL MAKE IN THAT FALL-OFF OF THE VACCINE RATE.AC >> BECAUSE THE NAME HAS BEEN DRAWN.

WE DON'T KNOW THAT NAME.

I'M SURE IN MY MIND, THEY'RE PROBABLY GETTING THAT PUBLIC RELATIONS CAMPAIGN TOGETHER SO THEY CAN ROLL THAT OUT SO IT CAN BE A REALLY BIG THING.

WE'LL SEE.

>> DEDRICK, BY THE WAY, CMS STARTED THEIR CAMP CMS THIS WEEK, A PROGRAM AIM AT HELPING THOSE KIDS WHO HAVE TROUBLE DURING COVID.

BUT SURPRISINGLY, THOUSANDS OF KIDS WHOHOUS WERE SIGNED UP TO COME NEVER SHOWED UP.

I MEAN, AFTER ALL THE COMPLAINTS WE'VE HEARD FROM PARENTS, THAT'S REALLY SURPRISING TO ME THAT THEY'RE NOT TAKING ADVANTAGE, FULL ADVANTAGE OF A PROGRAM DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY FOR THEIR KIDS.

>> EXACTLY.

YOU KNOW, CMS SAID THAT INITIALLY AROUND 32,500 STUDENTS SIGNED UP FOR THE PROGRAM BUT ONLY 19,000 STUDENTS SHOWED UP.

SO WHAT A DRAMATIC DIP.

WE WERE TALKING TO SOME PARENTS TO FIGURE OUT WHERE ARE THEY.

SOME PARENTS HAVE SAID THEY HAVE ENROLLED THEIR STUDENTS IN OTHER PROGRAMS.

SO THAT'S A RED FLAG THAT YOU THINK THAT A PROGRAM IS BETTER THAN WHAT CMS IS GOING TO OFFER.

THAT IS A CONCERN RIGHT THERE.

SOME PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT THE SUMMER CAMP WAS JUST TOO LONG, YOU KNOW TO SPEND THEIR SUMMER THAT LONG INSIDE OF A CLASSROOM.

SOME PEOPLE SAID THAT THERE WAS TRANSPORTATION ISSUES, THAT THE BUS WAS AN HOUR HOU LATE.

I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE REALLY-- THEY GOT SUMMER, SUMMER, SUMMERTIME, THEY HAVE SUMMERTIME ON THEIR MIND AND THEY'RE SAYING, HEY, MAYBE WE CAN CATCH UP IN AUGUST.

BUT I DON'T KNOW THE CAMPAIGN THAT CMS HAD TO REALLY LURE THOSE STUDENTS AND CONVINCE THE STUDENTS AND PARENTS THAT WHAT THEY WILL GET WOULD BE BETTER IF THEYF HAD BEEN IN THE CMS PIPE LINE FOR LIKE NINE MONTHS AND STILL AFTER NINE MONTHS I STILL DIDN'T LEARN ANYTHING.

IN THE SUMMERTIME, WHAT WILL THAT LEND ME AS WELL?

WE SHALL SEE COME AUGUST WHEN SCHOOL STARTS BACK UP.

>> KIND OF DISAPPOINTING FOR CMS AND ALL OF US THAT HOPE TO SEE EDUCATION REBOUND FROM ALL THE HURT THAT COVID DID TO EDUCATION.

RETAIL ALSO HURTING IN MANY PLAYS.

WE SAW NORTHLAKE MALL GO INTO FORECLOSURE.

ITS PARENT COMPANY.

MAKES YOU WONDER WHAT THE FUTURE OF RETAIL IS GOING TO BE, TRADITIONAL RETAIL, YOU KNOW, WITH THE EMERGENCE OF ONLINE SHOPPING ESPECIALLY DURING COVID.

ANY THOUGHTS FROM OUR TWO FOLKS THAT COVER BUSINESS ON A PRETTY REGULAR BASIS?

>> YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THAT COVID NECESSARILY CREATED NEW TRENDS BUT I DO THINK IT'S AN ACCELERANT OF A LOT OF TRENDS WE'VE SEEN.

IF YOU WEREN'T ALREADY ON THE AMAZON ONLINE SHOPPING TRAIN, WHAT BIGGER PUSH TO GET YOU ONTO THAT.

I THINK THE KIND OF RETAIL THAT ARE HURT MOST BY ONLINE SHOPPING COMPETITION ARE, YOU KNOW, YOUR TRADITIONAL MALL ANCHORS, YOURR DEPARTMENT STORES, YOUR CLOTHING STORES THAT SELL KIND OF CLOTHES THAT YOU CAN GET AND I KNOW MY JEAN SIZE.

I'LL HIT IT ON AMAZON.

IT COMES TO MY DOOR.

I'M NOT DRIVING TO NORTH LAKE AND FIGHTING TRAFFIC ON 77 TO GET THE SAME JEANS.

I'M NOT BUYING MY TOASTERS IN STORE ANYMORE.

I CAN ORDER A TOASTER ONLINE.

FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO MADE THAT SWITCH, THE STORES THAT ARE HURT MOST ARE THAT.

I THINK WE'LL SEE MORE STRUGGLES, BUT KEEP IN MIND, WE SAW THAT BEFORE THE PANDEMIC AS WELL.

MALLS WERE NOT IN A GREAT PLACE NATIONWIDE.

A BIGGER QUESTION I THINK IS WHAT FACTORS WE SEE EMERGE ON THINGS LIKE THE LABOR SIDE FROM ALL THIS.

ARE WE GOING TO SEE WORKERS WITH ENOUGH POWER AND BARGAINING POWER TO SUSTAIN GAINS LIKE $15, HIGHER MINIMUM WAGES, OR ARE WE GOING TO REVERT TO MORE A DYNAMIC WAY WHERE WORKERS WORRIED ABOUT LOSING THEIR JOBS, WORRIED ABOUT STORES CLOSING AND SEE THIS BLIP IN THE LABOR-- THE POWER OF LABOR DECLINE IN THE WAKE OF COVID?

I'M GOING TO BE WATCHING THAT CLOSELY AS WELL.

>> AND CITY LEADERS ARE GOING TO BE WATCHING TOO.

I WAS TALKING TO COUNCILMEMBER MALCOLM GRAHAM AND WE WERE SAYING THAT NORTH LAKE MALL IS AN ANCHOR FOR THAT PART OF THE TOWN.

ECONOMIC IMPACT, YOU KNOW, THAT IT BRINGS TO THAT PART OF TOWN, AND WE DON'T WANT ANOTHER EASTLAND MALL OR NORTH LAKE MALL.

WE DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING IN HOW THE BUSINESS PEOPLE AND HOW THEY'RE GOING TO COME OUT OF THIS AND HOW WILL THEY COME OUT THIS.

IT CAN SAVE A LOT OF JOBS AND SAVE THAT PART OF THE COMMUNITY.

>>MU NORTHNI LAKE IS I THINK 16 YEARS OLD.

>> I'VE GOT TO CUT US OFFF BECAUSE WE ARE OUT OF TIME.

QUICKLY, NORTH LAKE IS STILL OPEN BY THE WAY.

IT'S IN FORECLOSURE, BUT VERY MUCH STILL OPEN.

TWO OTHER VERY QUICK THINGS.

CONGRATULATIONS TO THE COUNTY FOR FINISHING AMERICAN LEGION MEMORIAL STADIUM.

IT'S A BEAUTIFUL SITE.

WE'LL SEE HOW MANY EVENTS WIND UP GOING THERE BESIDE SOCCER.

IF YOU ARE AN ELTON JOHN FAN, GET READY TO SPEND MONEY AND THEN SIT BACK AND WAIT.

BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO BE AT LEAST AIER AND A HALF BEFORE HE FINALLY GETS TO BANK OF AMERICA STADIUM.

WE'RE OUT OF TIME AND THANK TO OUR PANEL FOR BEING HERE.

THANK YOU AT HOME FOR JOINING US.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS ON OFF THE RECORD.ORG.

AND SEE YOU NEXT TIME ON OFF THE RECORD.

[ THEME MUSIC ] ♪♪