Narrator: Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina is a cooperative effort among farmers retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture to help consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

The Boyd Foundation supporting outdoor recreational opportunities, the appreciation of wildlife, educational programs, and enhancing the quality of life in Columbia, South Carolina and the Midlands at large.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

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♪ happy opening music ♪ Amanda: Good evening and welcome to Making It Grow.

We're so glad that you can join us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty.

I'm a Clemson horticulture agent.

And tonight we're going to learn see Katie Collins, who's one of our water resources agent.

And she's made this absolutely delightful, and very instructional litter lesson kit for schools to use.

And Dr. Kimberly Baker is going to talk about the cottage food law which has changed lately.

So um, two things that you'll be interested in finding out about Terasa Lott, of course, is in charge of Master Gardeners around the state.

And um, that is a lot to keep up with Terasa, how many do we have now?

<Terasa>: Well, there's about 800 or so that actually report hours that log into our own reporting system.

But I know that there are many more that are actively performing volunteer service and just haven't taken the time to sit down.

Amanda: yeah, okay.

Well, we thank them for all that they do.

<Terasa>: Absolutely.

I mean, it really is a huge benefit to our horticulture agents and Master Gardener coordinators, like our panelists, Carmen here, um, to help them reach more people.

Amanda: Yep, that's true.

Okay.

Rob Last you are a commercial vegetable?

And I guess row crop agent too, because your farmers down in the low country do a little bit of both, don't they?

Rob: I specialize specialize more with the horticulture crops, Amanda so that would be particularly fruit crops of fruit and vegetables, yes.

Amanda: So if they then switch over from growing melons to a to something else that another agent would step in to help them with that.

Rob: I try to help where I can.

But there's a lot of the agronomic side of things that are not absolutely okay with so it's better to hand it off to somebody else.

Amanda: Well, it's enough keeping all those melons coming in, in the summer, because that's a big part of South Carolina agriculture.

We thank you for it.

So are there any things going on and that you've been one might want to share with any of our viewers?

Rob: Absolutely Amanda, we've all heard about the ban on Bradford pear, Bradford pear tree sales, as part of extension, we're running Bradford pear bounces.

So if you type into Google, Clemson, Bradford pear bounty, and come up with a list of dates and areas that where you can take if you've got evidence of trees that you've destroyed, we will replace those trees.

Amanda: They'll give you a re-placement, you can take a tree that will be relevant to the area.

Amanda: Okay,that's wonderful.

How exciting.

Yeah.

We don't realize how ubiquitous they are from the progeny until the spring comes in.

We see them in bloom and that sadly that they're everywhere.

Yeah.

So Carmen Ketron, you're the horticulture agent over in Florence.

And um, Florence has turned into a big city now.

And there's always something going on.

But what's going on right now?

Carmen: Well, we're almost very deep into fare season right now.

And so we're enjoying all of the different fairs and local harvest events going on.

It's a great time to be in the Pee Dee region.

And we just love having everybody out there.

All the 4-H agents, all of the different contests and celebrating all the great horticulture crops, peacans, chicken bog.

(laughter) Amanda: I'm a big chicken bog fan myself.

We had a friend one time who was down visiting from up north and he said I just can't believe it.

I'm sitting here eating Chicken Bob and eating Goober Peas.

(laughter) Carmen: Were Rob's from you can't call it chicken bog it's only chicken Pirlo.

Amanda: Davis Sanders, you're here from South Pleasantburg Nursery.

And this is, as Rob was saying they're giving trees, so people can take them home and have a more appropriate tree one that's not something not an invasive tree and native tree.

And this is a good time to plant trees.

Do y'all have a good selection?

Davis: It's an excellent time to plant trees.

When the days are short and the airs cool.

The top of the tree is dormant.

But since our soil throughout the state never freezes, they can grow roots pretty much all winter.

So we do recommend planting in October, November, December.

And right now we do have an excellent selection of trees.

In fact, we just received a huge 53 foot 18 Wheeler load of nothing but trees.

We've been working well in stocked with Japanese maples, and quite a few native trees.

Amanda: Oh, wonderful.

Thank y'all for doing that.

Must have been a hard day unloading that truck and glad.

Davis: Well, we have a crew that's very efficient.

Amanda: Are you part of that crew?

Davis: Most days, no.

Amanda: Thank goodness.

David>>: That's really young guys.

Amanda: There you go.

I agree.

100%.

Terasa you have gardens of the week for us?

I bet start off with something cheerful and fun.

<Terasa>: I do it so much fun seeing what people do in their yards, gardens or maybe they visited a beautiful place and snapped a photo and would like to share it with everyone.

Today we begin with Annett Barrett who shared the fall leaves of Japanese Maple.

Sometimes we don't get a chance to see a lot of fall color.

But this is one way to accomplish that in your yard.

From Tommy Kemmerlin a strawberry bush or you might call it hearts of bustin our hearts of bustin with love.

He said a friend found on his property and that was his first observation.

Firsts are always exciting.

Gail Bolt shared with us the orangey copper leaves of Camp Fire coleus, so many Coleus varieties, everything from kind of a lemon lime to a burnt orange or burgundy.

From Libby Breitenbaugh a bee on Longwood blue caryopteris.

And this particular cultivars is a hybrid cross between two caryopteris species.

And we end up today with an old bright red chair turned into a planter.

And that was courtesy of Jaynette Zollner.

So thanks, everyone for sharing your photos.

This is just a minute sample of what was shared either sent to me via email or on our Facebook page.

So go there, and you can see other submissions.

Amanda: Well, thank you, and thank you to everybody who sends them in.

We really do appreciate that.

So, Davis, I think you've got some interesting things to show us.

Davis: Oh, yes, I decided I would bring some things for winter planters that don't necessarily involve pansies.

<Okay.> The first one I've got here, makes a really nice combination.

This is this is one of the Huecherellas, which is a bio generic cross between our native alumroot or heucheras and the native Tiarella or foam flower, <Yes.> These do persist throughout the winter, they do have somewhat of a trailing growth habit.

And they do bloom sporadically in the spring and fall and perhaps sometimes even in the summer.

With these little blooms, <Okay.> And I have noticed some of the some of the really tiny pollinators like some of little wasps and sweat bees come into these periodically.

Amanda: Somebody's got to make use of it.

David: And they combine really nicely with some of the darker colored spurges or euphorbias.

That's a lot of people don't realize that these ornamental spurges are in the same genus as our favorite Christmas flower the poinsettia.

Amanda: Now word and heavens.

Now, can this take a little bit of shade?

Davis: It can take a little shade prefers full sun, but the particularly the Foamy Bells, as these are commonly called can they can tolerate sun or shade.

Amanda: Okay.

And so you would if you had a place that was under a deciduous tree, and you wanted to eat there was some a little bit of shade, that's probably work fine.

<Work real nicely.> Well, how big were the spurge get?

Davis: Those will probably top out about 15-18 inches equal spread, they'll, they'll get some size on them.

But being being something that's normally used for winter color, they're not going to be putting on a whole lot of top growth in the wintertime.

So so you don't have to worry about it overpowering your container.

They also perform quite well in the ground as long as they get plenty of good drainage.

Amanda: good drainage.

All right.

It's something that isn't always there.

And upstate.

I understand.

<Right.> Okay.

Well, thank you so much.

<You're welcome.> All righty.

Well, Terasa, do we have a question?

Can we help someone or something or trying to help someone?

<Terasa>: We're going to do our best this one is sort of like a mystery plant a plant identification.

We don't have our favorite botanist on the show, but we have a talented teams.

So I think we can do it.

Norman said and he shared a photo, I can't key out this plant.

This is the first time I've seen it in flower.

It's growing in an 80 year old pine hardwood forest slightly up slope from a black water swamp, about three to four foot tall in a patch of about 10 That gets almost full shade.

Do you know what it is?

Oh, Amanda: My goodness.

Amanda: Well, Carmen, you're young enough to be wonderful of the computer and all these new apps and things that are out there on the telephone.

Have you got an idea of what this is?

Carmen: Yes, this one was a lot of fun.

It's one of those Mist flowers.

A lot of things you can find in the ditch blooming right now are often one of some of our best wildflowers.

So this one's really fun.

It almost looks like a firecracker.

But it's its own special special kind of flower.

And a lot of the times I'll see it blooming, right along with any of your golden rods.

So they make a really great combination when you're walking around.

Amanda: So the you didn't have to search this when you were familiar with it.

Carmen: That one was off the top of the old dome.

But a lot of the times what we'll end up doing is using those dichotomous keys like the like our questionnaire kind of said, and sometimes you can't find them.

Sometimes you want to look for dichotomous keys on the internet that specialize in wildflowers that can kind of get you to the right place or sometimes some of the tropical's, but there are a ton of apps on the internet that you can actually grab and just click it and it'll get you pretty close.

Or it'll get you fairly close that you can then use a resource like one of our wonderful books or the H-G-I-C web site to kind of narrow it down.

Amanda: People do like to know what they're seeing, don't they?

Carmen: They love it.

And it's fun because you get to impress your friends.

(laughter) Amanda: Well, I'm gonna leave that to you younger people.

Okay, Terasa, what's next?

<Terasa>: Well, this is something that I have experienced in my own garden.

So Brantley from Hilda don't feel like you are alone.

Brantley said I'm starting to notice holes in the leaves of my collards.

What could be causing this?

Amanda: Oh.

All right, Rob.

Rob: That's a very common problem at this point.

Typically, at this point in the year holes in the leaves can be caused by caterpillars.

Now, there are several different species of caterpillars and moths that will attack collards, so that could be important cabbage worm, it could be done by moth, it could be army worms as well.

But we all have that similar characteristic feeding damage.

The best course of action is always to get the correct identification of the caterpillar.

Not always easy for a homeowner, but we are here to help as well, as well as the plant pest diagnostic clinic.

If you really, really stuck, but we can certainly, we can certainly help identify it and then recommend solutions from there.

Amanda: So go out.

And look you may have to look under the leaves.

Is that correct?

Rob: Yes.

Scouting, looking underneath the leaf and finding the finding the actual larvae that are feeding on it.

Amanda: And then getting a picture of that.

Rob: A picture works brilliantly.

And that can be E-mailed to an extension agent or keyed into some of the keys as Carmen was saying to get the identification as well.

<Terasa>: Okay, they can be very hungry little caterpillars, so they can eat quite quite a bit of your collard leaves before you really notice.

And then you're like, Oh, no.

Amanda: Since collards don't have to be pollinated.

Do people ever use floating row covers over them?

Or is that not is that just not have?

Rob: I have seen that done doing getting anything tight enough to the ground and sealed to actually prevent the adults been able to fly in.

Amanda: Okay, so it's a little bit problematic.

Rob: We can try using encouraging beneficial's through the use of companion planting, for example.

So we can include in encouraged natural enemies into our vegetable production.

Amanda: Okay, all right.

So that might be an alternative route.

<Terasa>: Okay, well, thank you so much tip on getting a good photo.

So the larvae or those caterpillars are probably going to be small.

And if people are using a smart phone to take a photo, they're inclined to get very, very close, but the auto focus doesn't always work.

So move back, make sure it's really in focus, and then we can always enlarge the picture or crop the picture.

So the key is really to make sure that it's in focus.

Amanda: Okay, well, thank you for that tip.

I appreciate Okay.

Katie Collins is a water resources agent and she does a lot of work with schools, and sometimes they have large displays that they can take in, but she thinks it's always better if the children can have a hands on experience themselves.

I think you're gonna enjoy seeing what she's come up with.

Katie Collins is a water resources agent with Clemson extension based in Sumter, we used to be in the same office and I'm missing you, I'm so glad you come over to help us.

And your arrangement is one where you education is a large part of this.

And litter reduction is a large part, I believe too of your responsibilities.

Katie: Yeah, I work with the storm water departments with the city in the county.

And every few years, we put together a plan, and we talk about what our main pollutants of concern are in the county.

And litter is one of those top three pollutants that we're worried about here.

So educating folks about litter and kind of trying to get that cleaned up is a big priority.

Amanda: And there's a large kit called an envirascope.

<envirascape, yeah.> That can be used with groups, but you thought that perhaps it would be easier for teachers to have something that the students could be more intimately involved with themselves.

And I believe Palmetto pride, which is our State anti-litter Association.

Gave you a grant to put this together.

Katie: Yeah, the grant was Palmetto pride paid for all of this.

And we have 30 kits going out to public and private schools all over the county, and we even have some that can be lended to homeschool groups.

Amanda: That's wonderful.

That's great.

And I think what's fun is there's gonna be a lot of hands on for the kids in this.

But let's start with what you begin with, which is I guess you want them to know what literature is talk about what literature is and where it ends up and where it comes from?

Katie: Yeah, yeah, one of the big things we want them to understand is that, you know, if you throw a piece of litter on the ground, even if it's like a parking lot, or somewhere you might not think of as a high value, outdoor space, it doesn't necessarily stay put in that place.

So we talk about a watershed is an area of land where all the rain-water travels to one kind of water body and along the way, it picks up pollution, like litter, and it carries it to our waterways, which of course we need for fishing and swimming and recreation and drinking water.

And we want that water to be clean.

So this is really a way for the kids to kind of get hands on, and hopefully understand that, you know, litter travels throughout that watershed, and why it's so important for us to kind of keep the ground and the waterways clean, Amanda: and to personalize that you've come up with within the kit, which I think you've done a marvelous job, everything's available for the teacher, she didn't have to come up with it herself or himself, a way for them to target and figure out which watershed they're in, and even pinpoint where their school is within that so that they can say, Gosh, this is where we are.

<Yeah.> And instead of just being an abstract idea.

Katie: Yeah, so there's four main water bodies that areas of land might drain to in Sumter County, the biggest one being the Black River watershed area, so they can kind of look at where their school is, and they'll know which river or lake their storm water will drain to.

Amanda: And what did they think are the main sources of litter?

And where did they think it comes from?

What kind of answers do you get?

Katie: From the kids, you know, they always want to point the finger at somebody else.

And I'm like, I've tried to bring up to sometimes you know, there's accidental litter, so maybe something falls out of our pocket or we dropped something by accident, a big source of litter to is not tarping, your loads, will taking trash off, and they're not securing that load.

And things just blow out the back of the truck.

So there are certainly people out there throwing litter on the ground intentionally.

But some of it is also accidental.

And there are things we can all do to reduce it.

And another part of this lesson towards the end, is we talked to the kids about how they can reduce, reuse and recycle items to produce less trash in general, which hopefully eventually would lead to less litter, Amanda: Then.

So I must say, this is just such a cool thing that you put together.

And usually you use a different, this is what the children are given.

And you You say it's time for like five or six kids to do together, Katie: Yeah.

We set it up.

So there's six watershed kits per, you know, kit that's going to the school.

So each class can break the if there's like 30 kids, they can break those up into six groups.

And then you've just got five kids playing with it so they can all kind of get their hands on and get involved.

Amanda: We've put it on this just so people can see more easily.

And so all these are removable, and come in the kit.

Katie: Yeah.

Just wait come loose.

And then the kids can kind of build their own watershed to connect them to it and they'll name the rivers and they'll name their lake and decide where they want their dog to be.

So hopefully it kind of connects them.

Amanda: Did they have fun coming up with the names?

Katie: Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

They love it.

They want to, I had to actually look high and low for these cars that aren't the kind that you pull back and they zoom.

That would just be chaos in the classroom.

So I went old school, they don't they don't zoom anywhere on their own.

Amanda: And so they start off learning about litter and watersheds and that, you know every everything ends up downstream.

<Yeah.> And then this is really for them to get an idea of not abstractly, but physically seeing litter and where it goes, yeah.

And so you have some pretend litter that's safe to give kids to use.

Let's let's, let's see how that would work.

Katie: Sure.

So the kids come up with possible sources of litter.

So they might say, well, we'll throw an apple core some kind of food scraps out the car window.

So then we have some oats from oatmeal that the teacher can come around and help them put some fake food scraps on their litter.

Or they might say, you know, people would throw plastic or paper litter out of the car window.

So we would throw some paper scraps on there, or maybe outside of these houses.

Another type of litter that they did talk about the there is a puppy and I always say what kind of litter might come from a dog.

And they either there's a bold one that says; POOP!, Or there's one that wants to whisper it to me like they poop.

So we talked about how dog poop adds back GCS to waterways, this is just cocoa powder.

It's not... Amanda: It smelled good, but it... Katie: Definitely smells good, a little deceptive there.

And then another thing we like to talk about is oil, that can be a big concern.

So maybe oil leaking from your car, or it could be cooking oil that people are putting outside or putting down their, you know, their sinks.

And what you should do with that is bottle it up and throw it away in the trash or recycle it.

Amanda: So um, so we've got some kind of a messy looking yard here.

Katie: So now, you know, the teacher would kind of guide them through discussion about those our watershed look nice.

Would we want our actual neighborhood to kind of look like this?

And what do you think's going to happen to this litter?

When it rains?

Do you think it'll stay put?

What do you think will happen?

Amanda: And so most of this is real hands on for the kids.

But at some point, I don't think that we're going to let them control the rainfall.

Is that correct?

Katie: No, we, the teacher stays in command of the big rain cloud here because I think it would be a mess otherwise.

So the teacher comes along.

And they're the storm and they pour a little bit of water on the watershed.

And sometimes, if you want to get the kids real involved here, and if you don't mind the noise, I have them imitate Thunder by banging on the table or shooting a lightning strike, depending on how, how much energy you want to release that day.

And then they can see down at the bottom, all the litter has collected in our lake down at the bottom.

And we talk about you know, do you would you want to swim in that lake?

Would you want to go fishing in there?

Do you want your drinking water to come from there?

And usually there's a very resounding no, definitely not, <I guess so.> And we have an additional activity where they can try to clean up the litter once it's in the water, which is hard to talk about.

It's easier to prevent than to clean up.

And then that leads into that reduce, reuse, recycle conversation.

Amanda: And so you think they actually think about it?

I mean, when they see this and think maybe they some of them may have boats and canoe or kayak with the parents and things and all of a sudden it's like, all this is in the water that I enjoy being in and that my dog sometimes like just because swimming and or they may be swimmers and lakes and ponds as well.

Katie: Yeah, exactly.

When I do this in classrooms, usually before we start anything we talk about, well, what do you use water for, and most of them have been fishing at the very least, or have been in a boat, or at least like to go walk by, you know, the lake or the river.

So there's some connection, if nothing else, they at least have to drink water every day.

So we all have some connection to the water, Amanda: and then clean up within the little classroom.

And we are trying you've made it very easy for the teachers.

I mean, you even give them a building block to put under here so that they have a natural way to elevate it.

So how hard is it for the teacher to clean this up?

Have you thought about that?

Yeah, Katie: and it's really simple.

In each kit, I've included like a colander.

So when they go to clean it up, they can just take it over to the sink, run some water, dump it into the colander, so that these little pieces don't clog up their sink drain.

And then in the instructions, it says you know, just leave it out to dry for a few hours before you pack it away.

Amanda: And then these are stuck down with some kind of little sticky stuff.

And so you just peel that off.

And then these all just go back in their own box so that everything is very compact and easy to use.

So they just sit around and dry.

And then the kids this is a good activity.

I think it would give them an it's funny.

I've heard from people saying that their kids have sometimes help them break a little habit that they may have had.

Katie: Yeah, yeah, that's part of the hope is that, you know, we're training a new generation so that when they're older, they have these lessons but also hopefully they go home and if a parent there's a cigarette butt out the window, they'll tell them you know, that's not good.

Amanda: I'm glad you have a great association with Sumter and Sumter county and the city of Sumter.

Katie: And it's cool.

Yeah, the city of Sumter has partnered on this whole program.

They have a litter officer that's been around for a few years now.

So he's helping me deliver all the kits and reach out to schools and that's what In a really nice partnership.

Amanda: and um, if the if the teacher wants you to come in, I guess sometimes you can even make visits to school and talk to older groups if necessary.

Katie: Absolutely.

And my contact info is on here so if they run low on supplies, I can resupply that and if they need, you know, a follow up lesson or more information, I'm happy to visit.

Amanda: I take this opportunity to let you brag about some of the kids that Sumter high that you work with and with what y'all did recently.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely, um, several of the clubs at Sumter high, they go out and pick up litter really often.

Um, there's a teacher there, Kyle Austin that I kind of helped coordinate some of those things with.

And this past Saturday, we went out, picked up over 850 pounds of litter.

<Wow.> It was a huge amount.

What a great group of kids.

Yeah, they were working hard.

They did great.

Amanda: Yeah.

The next generation might turn out to just surprise us wonderfully want to think right now?

Katie: I think so.

Amanda: You've surprised... You don't surprise me.

But you've always pleased me and make me happy when I see how resourceful you are, and what you're doing to make it easy for people to try to pass on these good ideas.

Thank you so much, Katie.

Katie: Thanks for having me.

Amanda: Katie is an imaginative agent, we are so fortunate to have her encouraging children to protect the environment and to dissuade them from and also children if they fuss at their parents, their parents are less likely to litter too I think.

I've noticed that on my children.

Fuss at me, I try to I try to do what they asked me to do.

Again, I went to a storm water pond and found all kinds of things going there and did not get my feet wet.

I found an unknown grass I put a piece of scirpus in there.

And it wasn't until I got out of the car and started looking around it was just covered with climbing hemp, you know what you going back 40 miles now you don't see that.

<Terasa>: We've had quite a few people to send photos in for identification recently.

Amanda: And also while I was there, I found in this was a barely could get these cat tails.

And so here's one that hasn't.

It's still somewhat intact, and it's fun, I used to get these and bring them in the house.

And I didn't realize that as they mature, they become like this and you might come home from work one day and had this all over your house so I just you if you got some incredible super lacquer hairspray.

Sray them with that and maybe you could keep them a little bit longer.

But otherwise you're gonna have this going all over the place.

So they do want those seeds to go all over and they are now all over the studio.

<Terasa>: You probably can't see it at home but I can see these tiny little plums.

Amanda: Well I hope it doesn't make anybody sneeze.

Okay, um, Davis, I think you've got something else and we're gonna talk about Davis: Yeah, I did bring a couple of other things that you normally wouldn't think of as in your wonder planters.

Yeah, this is a this is one of the ornamental mustards which is also edible.

It's called mizuna.

I think this one is miz America M-I-Z and let's say it's just a really pretty ornamental mustard and that dark dark foliage contrasts so nicely with the with the bright green Chartreuse stems on the on the foliage that that let's combine well with a lot of the brighter colors that you might might think of in your in your Amanda: I hadn't even noticed the stem that's one of the features of this.

Davis: Right and I am that's picked up a lot of times by something that does have that bright color and this is another one of the Euphorbia this one it's called Ascot rainbow.

Okay, and here again this one is going to get up ah 15-18 inches in the spring, late spring, early summer it will also have these interesting little flowers that don't really have a lot of color or a lot of a lot of appeal other than the fact that it's such an unusual blume.

Amanda: So take time to look at it.

Davis: Right and if you if you want to do the thriller filler spiller thing we've got, we have an illumination make a minor we we like to use the maker miners because while they are non native and they may be a little aggressive if not invasive, they also respond well to to most herbicides, the secret to using these or IVY or Vinca major anything like that in your winter containers is never let them touch the ground because once they do, they're off and running.

Amanda: Okay.

And so um, at the end of the year, put this out with your domestic garbage Yes.

Okay.

Don't try yet right because sometimes that's just the appropriate thing to do.

I've been places in the mountains, I imagine y'all have all too.

And you'll be walking around and you'll come up on an old old home site completely covered of vinca and by that time it's might as well be kudzu.

Davis: Right, particularly the vinca major because it does not respond well to most herbicides.

Amanda: Well and you know, in the middle of the woods who's gonna go out there and right be doing that.

Well, thank you so much.

Those are just beautiful.

Especially the green stem the chartreuse stem, which I had not realized until you pointed it out.

That's fascinating.

Okay, Terasa, we can we try to help next?

<Terasa> Kathy from Murrells Inlet would like help with arranging a container.

She said, I'm trying to combine a few plants in one giant pot for my front porch so it looks like those magazines, but mine just aren't as pretty as the ones I see.

What am I doing wrong?

<Amanda> Okay.

Well, Carmen, I know you love working with plants and combinations of plants, and you got some ideas?

<Carmen> Well, luckily, Davis has given us a lot of inspiration for the basis of it, that thriller, filler, spiller.

It's really a great combination, if you don't want to really think that hard about it.

A lot of the fun things, if you have one of those nice pieces that will kind of be the focus point, give you a nice tall thing.

Like I think the Ms. America would have been very lovely to have just as in the center, bring that focus in.

And then of course, you have your filler pieces, that Euphorbia, some of the nicer pansies.

They really work as a kind of a mounting species to fill in the area and provide that mass.

And that might be some of the fun things that Ms. Kathy is working on is, she probably just put it in there and it hasn't filled out yet.

Because as soon as you start to fill out, that's when you get the real pop.

But then, of course you have your, like Davis was talking about, that spiller that could spill over, that the Pretty Vinca.

That can actually help to soften the edges, make it a little bit more appropriate for your containers, have a nice little natural flow.

And those are those, that's a pretty easy one to go with.

And then staying in the same color, y'all working your color wheel is always fun, all of the different purples with the chartreuse greens, or if you want to go purple and orange, we always love that.

< laughs > We love purple and orange.

< laughs > And repeating those patterns.

You don't have to do seven different plant types of plants.

Repeat those patterns.

We always like our rule of thumb, keeping it in threes and fives.

And really, it's more math than anything else.

If you're not really sure and you're not confident in your design, you can always fall back on the good old math.

<Amanda> Yes.

And one thing when you're looking for containers, and often you might want different sizes, but sometimes people want a spectacular container by the front porch if they've got something fancy.

And I used to work with my friend Ruthie Lacey, and she would you know, take us to people's houses doing that, and sometimes they would get a container that had a small top and then it would bulge out.

And they were so difficult to work in because you had a massive sort of container.

And then you had a very limited planting space.

So I would encourage people when they're out looking for containers, I prefer to find one that's got that the top opening is appropriate to, doesn't, get you know, doesn't get overwhelmed by a bulging side, because it's just hard to get enough plant material in there to make it balanced sometimes.

Have you run into that?

<Carmen> I have, especially if you also the if you have a tall container, but you have very small plants and no height to the plants either.

A general rule of thumb, you keep it about one to two times as big as the height of the container.

<Amanda> Okay, so there are some... <Carmen> So you can balance it out.

<Amanda> Okay, well, thank you so much.

All right, Teresa.

<Terasa> Well, I think it was appropriate that I wore my apple sweater today because Sunny in Branchville has a question about apples.

Sunny said I'm interested in planting an apple tree, but I also know we aren't in the greatest zone for such a thing.

Have you had anyone from my area that can recommend an apple tree variety that would thrive?

<Amanda> Well, Rob, what do think?

<Rob> Apple trees in Zone 8 B can be really challenging to to grow.

We are right at the very limit of what we can do.

And the reason for that is typically apples require 500 to 1000 chill hours per week over the course of the winter to change from vegetative to reproductive, to get those flower buds going.

There have been some developments with low chill unit apples, but they're down at 250 to 300 units.

So that typically means they're coming into flower, late February, early March.

<Amanda> What happens here?

<Rob> Very susceptible to a late frost.

Now, I would be remiss if I didn't mention two diseases that are going to be significant problems, potentially.

Fire blight is one that affects apples and pears particularly and Cedar apple rust is the other one.

That can be a real problem to deal with for the average homeowner.

Now have all that being said there are a couple of varieties that I have seen people work with down in the lowcountry.

One is Honeycrisp.

The other one is Pink Lady.

And there are some reports that the Red Delicious and Golden Delicious even Granny Smith will tolerate our conditions, but they tend not to fruit particularly well.

My general advice is leave apples alone in the lowcountry and try somethings a little bit easier.

But there's nothing stopping you having to go if you want to do.

<Amanda> I'll tell you what I am just absolutely in love with is the non astringent Asian Persimmons.

<Absolutely> They are just, I mean, the deer will eat them, but I haven't had any problems other than the deer and they are just wonderful.

And this is, unlike American, when which comes with your male and female, these are all combined in one, so you don't have to worry about what you're getting.

And they're real easy to find and real easy to get going in your yard and they bear at a young age and you can eat them, the softer you let it get, the sweeter but I think they're really fun when they're still crispy.

They're not going to turn your mouth inside out.

<Rob> And that's another good point, Amanda.

With apple trees, you're going to need a pollinator.

So if it's honey, if you want to try Honeycrisp, for example, then the pollinators has to be something else.

Typically, Pink Lady or Granny Smith.

Some other really good options for the local for the lowcountry, in terms of fruit trees, the Asian Pears can be really good.

Pears tend to be a little, a lot more tolerant to our climate than apples.

We can also look at peaches and certainly some cold tolerant citrus is starting to come in as well.

So don't you know, yes, we all want to grow apples and remember our childhoods and all that sort of good, good stuff.

But as we see in climate change and weather patterns change that is going to affect zones as well.

So it may be worth thinking a little bit outside of the box as well.

<Amanda> You know, and the main thing I think is we've got South Carolina farmers who are growing things.

And so if you can't grow something, try to make sure that when you go to the grocery store, you get something that South Carolina certified, and you're supporting the South South Carolina's economy and the local farmers.

So, they're just, you know, it's not always bad when you have to go and get something or to the farmers market or sometimes I have some friends who like to make a trip towards the upstate, and because some of the apple orchards let you come in, and that's kind of fun and you can pick apples or, or just look at how beautiful they are and get some and bring them home.

<Rob> That's great advice, too, is utilize the resources that we have available in the state.

<Amanda> Agritourism.

<Absolutely> Agritourism is part of agriculture.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Terasa, sometimes we have somebody who had been working and working and they would like to show up a little bit more of the yard than just one picture.

<Terasa> Yes, today's featured spotlight is from Linda T. Smith of Anderson, South Carolina.

Linda said that she and her husband George built their home and started their garden 25 years ago.

So they have quite a history.

<Amanda> Built their home.

Or we don't know if they built it themselves, but that kind of stuff.

< laughs > <Terasa> They had a part in it.

I don't know that they physically built it themselves, but yes.

They are situated about 15 minutes from Clemson and 15 minutes from downtown Anderson.

On their five acres, you'll find all sorts of things from chameleons, azaleas, magnolias, Japanese maples, irises, day lilies, and miscellaneous other items.

Linda captured some spectacular lighting.

And we have sort of two opposite photographs.

We have one of the morning sun on the drive way.

So I could just imagine driving down there and feeling exhilarated by the sunshine coming in.

And then on the opposite end of the spectrum, sunset with beautiful shades of blue and pink.

So thanks so much, Linda, for sharing your home with all of us here at Making It Grow and all of our viewers as well.

<Amanda> Terasa, my children who all live in Los Angeles, ask us sometimes, ask us to send them pictures of the winter sunsets, which I think are always the most beautiful, because they don't have enough, something out there, or they're no clouds or anything and they just don't seem to have sunsets and when they come home, they just go, Ah, look at the sunsets!

And we do have beautiful, beautiful sunsets.

<We sure do> We're fortunate and a lot of ways, aren't we.

<Terasa> Yes, for sure.

<Amanda> Okay.

Terasa, do we have a question?

<Terasa> You know we always have questions.

This one comes in sort of from my area from Mary Elizabeth in Bennettsville.

She said I'd really like to take some fall family photos in a cotton field on the side of the road that I see on my way home from work.

I don't know who owns it, but I don't think it would be a big deal.

What do you think?

<Amanda> Well, Carmen, there's a lot of cotton growing over your way.

Um, what would you suggest?

<Carmen> For this one as pretty as they look and as as fun as those photos would be, you never want to go into anyone's field no matter what it is that you don't know and you don't have permission, especially when the cotton looks the best is often right after they put a defoliant on it.

And so you don't want to be walking around in that.

Plus, as we said before, it's private property.

<It is> Yep.

There are a number of agritourism destinations that plant rows of cotton just to go and take photos of, corn fields, sunflower fields.

So try and find a reputable, an actual business that is specializing in those selfie farms.

<Okay> And that's a great way to support the community without possibly damaging someone's livelihood.

<Amanda> And it's an outing for the family.

Yeah.

Don't let the children bring their devices and talk about what's happening on the roadsides on the way if you can possibly do that.

What a great suggestion.

Thank you very, very much.

Well, Davis, honest to Pete look at what we've got here.

<Let me get that> <Davis> In keeping with our container gardening theme, <Yes> I decided that I would do something a little bit different for Christmas this year.

Everybody bought us a little dwarf, Alberta spruce, put bows and that kind of thing on it.

But what I've done here is put together an appropriately enough Yuletide Camellia.

It's one of the sasanqua Camellia typically blooms between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

It's got, you can see from the picture since that was not in bloom yet.

The picture shows the bright yellow stamens and the red petals, and surrounded it with red and white, violist.

The violist can take a little bit more shade than pansies.

So if you've got a sort of shady front porch, this would be an excellent addition.

And then fill that in with Dusty Miller, which by mid winter will be completely enveloping the root ball.

So give the the impression of of a nice little colorful snow scene.

<Amanda> Wouldn't that be fun.

How delightful.

<Davis> And going back to your comment about the shape of the container, anytime that you're dealing with a hardy plant in a container, always keep in mind that it's best to have the container actually taper outward and always be wider at the top than at the bottom.

That way, when you do have to take that plan out and move it into your landscape or or gift it to someone, you're not going to kill it trying to get it out of the pot.

<Amanda> I know.

Because if the top was small, and then it bulges out the roots is certainly going to go into that space and you're going to be tugging on it and maybe having to saw to get it out and then, poor old plant, it's not going to enjoy that.

<Davis> Or you're gonna break the container.

<Amanda> Yeah.

Which might have come from their grandmother or something.

< laughs > good idea.

Yeah.

And then you, then you say then this could go into your landscape?

<Davis> Yes.

It sure can.

<Amanda> It's a pretty big sasanqua.

<Davis> It is when it's extremely slow growing.

It reached 10 feet probably in 10 to 12 years.

So so it's not something that you're gonna have to be out chopping on to keep it under control.

This one also, since it's got that fairly rigid upright growth habit, you can trim the lower branches off in tree form, <Amanda> I've got one that must be 15 feet tall now.

Now, since you've got this evergreen, what do you plan, do you need a little, need to pay more attention to watering/ <Davis> Camellias are more drought tolerant than people give them credit for being, but yeah, it is a good idea to make sure that it doesn't get too dry <the digital method> right right.

Insert your index digit into the soil when it comes up dry, water it.

The other advantages of growing it in a pot is even if you do over watered as long as you've got those drain holes on the bottom and maybe some airspace underneath it.

Most of that water is going to percolate through anyway.

And also in that in stating that you also need to pay particular attention to the fertilizer that you use because potting soils are relatively sterile.

Some of them have a little bit of slow release fertilizer added.

But a good organic fertilizer that's going to be naturally slow release because it has to be broken down by microbial activity, <Amanda> Which is gonna be slower in the winter anyway.

<Davis> Exactly.

Or you can use one of the synthetic ones, sulfur coated urea or something like that, but just keep in mind that plants are like us and like our pets.

They need a place to live.

They need something to eat, they need something to drink and we have to provide all three of those when we're growing them in a container.

<Amanda> Okay.

I think this will be lots of fun to think about at Christmas time.

I sure appreciate you.

Teresa think you've got something to talk about.

<Terasa> Yes, well since we've been talking about winter interest, my husband and I just added some plants that are going to produce beautiful red berries to add some winter interests.

So it's a species of holly.

But unusual in that it doesn't have the the points on the leaves.

So this is a deciduous Holly called Winter berry or Ilex verticillata.

I'm really excited because it provides so many benefits to wildlife.

So winter interests will look nice to us.

But the flowers are going to be attractive to a variety of insects.

It's the host plant for Henry's elfin butterfly.

The birds can eat the berries, and can also use that for cover and for nesting.

One thing people need to remember is if they want berries, these are Hollies that prove they have male flowers on one plant and, and female flowers on the other plant.

So you need to get both male and female.

I think they need to be within about 50 feet of each other in order to ensure that pollination happens.

So we've got Winter Red is the female and Southern Gentleman is the male pollinizer.

< laughs > <Amanda> And they are just fabulous to cut and bring inside.

It's just a spectacular thing.

Everything doesn't have to be green in the winter.

And so a container that you brought where you brought those in and just have those beautiful stems with those red berries is just stunning addition.

<Terasa> That sounds great.

And my landscape is otherwise rather bleak in the winter.

So that'll give me another reason to bring something from the outside in.

<Amanda> Yeah.

And they probably need some pruning at some point anyway.

<Terasa> Oh yes.

These are known for suckering and getting chubby.

<Amanda> Yeah.

Okay.

Well, that was lots of fun.

Thank you.

And tonight Dr. Kimberly Baker is going to talk about the Cottage Food Law, which has changed lately.

I'm speaking with Dr. Kimberly Baker, who is the team leader for the extension, food systems and safety program at Clemson University.

And I've had a lot of people lately, asked me about this Cottage Food Law.

I know that y'all offer a program, a food to Market program for people who really want to go through the whole process of being able to maybe get a grocery store to carry their pickles that they're making with their great grandmother's recipe or something like that.

And that's intense.

And y'all have a wonderful program that food to market program to address that.

But some people just want to have maybe it's honey that they produce, or some tomatoes that they've canned.

And they don't want to offer it through a grocery store, something that they maybe just want to go to a local farmers market one day and have it there for people who might be interested in buying it.

And is that something that is in some cases allowable?

And how do we know what the rules are?

And how can we find out?

<Dr.

Kinberly> Sure.

So the Cottage Food Law, or sometimes we'll call it the Home-Based Food Production Law in South Carolina.

<Amanda> Home-Based Food Production.

That makes a lot of sense.

<Dr.

Kimberly> Yes, that is for non potentially hazardous foods.

<Oh> So that's only for, like baked goods, some canned foods, but that's very limited to like standard jams and jellies.

So there's there's a few things there that we can allow.

But we look at it from the safety perspective and what can be safely produced in the home.

So we're currently developing a resource guide that's going to be available to assist home producers to know what is allowed, what is not allowed under the law, as well as all the things that they need to follow while producing that product in the home kitchen, as well as how to label that.

<Amanda> Because so many things commercially have to be done in a dedicated site just for that.

<That's correct> But this is just if you just have a little bit of something that you want to bake cookies and take to the local farmers market.

These are the kinds of things that you said, are not going to be hazardous.

Not like it's not like something that needed to be steamed after pressure cook.

<Dr.

Kinberly> Exactly, yes.

Food that it's like tomatoes would not be allowed because we have to acidify them.

So you know, we don't allow any of those types of canned goods.

<But jams and jellies> Jams and jellies, as long as they're produced from a science based resource which we provide in the guidance document, then they can produce it and sell it at the farmers market.

<Amanda> Okay.

And this is called the Cottage Based Law.

<Dr.

Kimberly> It's the Cottage Food Law is what most people know it as, technically, in South Carolina, it's called the South Carolina Home-Based Food Production Law.

<Amanda> And so, people can come to y'all and get the information needed.

And y'all have all the gathered information from the other regulatory agencies that are involved.

<Dr.

Kimberly> We do.

In May, the law was amended to more non potentially hazardous foods.

So we have worked very closely with several other other regulatory agencies to be able to provide the information.

<Amanda> Well, thank you so much so that I can really enjoy the cookie that I should not get the next time I'm at a local market.

Thank you so much, Kimberly.

<Dr.

Kimberly> You're welcome.

Thank you.

<Amanda> Okay, I think we got another question coming up.

Do we?

<Terasa> Yes, Amanda, we have a question.

This is another plant ID question coming all the way from North Carolina.

Catherine from Mills River sent us a photo and she said, this is on a creek bank and there is jewelweed not far away.

Is this stinging nettle?

<Amanda> my goodness.

Well, I don't want to get into stinging nettle.

But I think it's always wise if you're not sure of what something is to avoid it.

But do you know if this one is one that actually could do some harm to you?

<Rob> It's a little bit more severe than stinging nettles.

From the picture, it looks like it's a Cicuta species.

Which one?

I'm not 100 percent sure.

But those Cicuta species, <Amanda> How do you spell...?

<Rob> C-i-c-u-t-a <Amanda> Okay.

<Rob> They contain plants like Water Hemp, which is incredibly, <Amanda> Whoa!

That's I mean, yeah, that's when you really don't get anywhere around.

<Rob> So that's one I would definitely stay well away from and I really don't believe that it is, the stinging nettle.

<Amanda> If you had children in your home, and were near this, do you think that you should perhaps try to, what would you do?

<Rob> I would potentially look at getting it removed.

Now you could either use an herbicide in conjunction following the label closely or using very careful protective equipment, like non latex gloves, etc, etc, to really protect yourself.

Remove the plants manually.

<Amanda> Because we don't like to disturb streambanks in any way.

But I think if you're talking about the life of children, or, or pets or something like that.

In this case, perhaps you could go in and you could could talk to your water resources agent and ask them to help you with some suggestions of how to go about it.

Does that seem feasible?

<Rob> Even putting replacements in as well?

<Amanda> Yeah, what else you could put in?

Yeah, because there are things that would do beautifully in that situation.

And then you because that is a little bit frightening.

I'm so glad that she sent that.

<Terasa> And we don't have all the information.

I'm not necessarily sure the creek is on her property or they just visited a creek.

So certainly if it's not their property, then okay.

< laughs > <Amanda> Well, we have a little bit of time left, is there something we might be able to answer pretty quickly?

<Terasa> We can try to help Martha in Seneca.

She says we lives on a lake and beavers are killing our trees and shrubs.

Do you have any recommendation for plants that the beavers won't bother?

<Amanda> Carmen, I'm so old that when I was taking field botany at Clemson, he took us up into North Carolina and showed us a beaver pond.

And I got Edward, my husband, we drove up there that weekend.

I mean, we'd never seen one.

And now they're just everywhere.

And they can be problematic.

<Yes, they can> They can be.

So, what suggestions do you have?

<Carmen> I don't have any suggestions for replacements because if there's nothing else available, they're probably going to go through most of this stuff.

Ideally, you want to give them enough, but at least in like Horry County and in the Pee Dee areas, there's actually a fairly big bounty on the beavers, because they are so, they are just just destroying some of our waterways.

Yeah, and so I wish I had a better answer for her.

Ideally, just keep on getting some nice replacements that they like.

Natives will always be my favorite suggestion.

But a lot of the times, it's you're just working with nature, not against it <Amanda> Well, and where I am people who have timber, which is part of their income, and they're going to send their kids to college or, you know, harvest at one day because it is a renewable crop, and can lose 50 acres 100 acres in a relatively short amount of time, because pine trees are not going to sit in in water and be happy.

<Carmen> Exactly.

And a lot of the times you want to contact the local department natural resources to use their all of their toolbox to help try to manage it <Amanda> And find out what is legal to do to try to control them and what's not legal to do.

I think that would be important too.

I know one thing that, um, you're never supposed to relocate animals, and a lot of people just you know, they want to get a trap and catch a squirrel or something but you really could spread disease and that is completely illegal.

You're not supposed to be relocated things.

So sometimes you have to be a little bit hard hearted to protect nature from carrying on diseases or passing things on that shouldn't be done.

<Terasa> If there are certain trees she wants to protect, so like I said, I can't think of anything that we'd replace but there are, you could use sort of a mesh like a hardware cloth to protect the trees so that the beavers can access them.

But depending on how many trees you have, you know that can be pretty cost prohibitive <Amanda> And then if the water is going to rise and this is a tree that can't happily sit in water, that may be a factor you have to take into effect as well.

So we have armadillos and coyotes and beavers and wonder what's next.

Well, Well thank you all so much for being with us tonight.

It's just been wonderful and um, puts me in the holiday mood a little bit.

I don't want to go out I want to have to go out and look start working on the lights quite yet.

But anyway, we're glad you're with us and we'll see you next week.

♪ closing music ♪ ♪ ♪ <Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina is a cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture, to help consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

The Boyd Foundation supporting outdoor recreational opportunities, the appreciation of wildlife, educational programs, and enhancing the quality of life in Columbia, South Carolina and the Midlands at large.

McLeod Farms in Mcbee, South Carolina.

Family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.