- Thank you very much for joining us for another Ohio Learns To day we're joined by Dr. Dave Anderson, clinical psychologist with the Child Mi and he's gonna help us get into the topic of screen time for kids.

So thank you very much, Dr. Da and let's get into it.

- Wonderful to be here.

Thank yo - So the first q what do we mean when we say screen time?

Because obviously there's TVs, phones, video games, there's a lot of different types of screen time.

So can you talk a little bit an d are they all the same?

- It's a really good question because we want parents about the fact that not all screen time is created Because, you know, early on in research on screens, and this is kind of even in a pre-smartphone era, people only looked at screens and time.

And granted there are research results related to how much time kids spend on screens, but there are really different effects depending on what kind of screen So like for example, what we know today, if you as a family are watching movies together or you're watching television shows together, that can be a really bonding experience That is not the kind of screen mo st people wanna draw attent While at the same time, for example, if we go to like the other end of the spect a teenager who has perhaps a proneness to maybe a mental health learning disorder, utilizing social media alone in their for many hours would be like the other end of the risk spectrum, where that kind of screen us like what we wanna draw attention to.

And of course there's a lo to video games and the use of screen and all kinds of different settings.

I think the other thing I'll j that screens are ubi So this notion that we wouldn't spend time on scree most adults spend time on a screen for most of their work life.

And you know, in that sense, like we'll kind of see who are looking at a computer screen for a lot of their work and then come home and are telling their kids, "Your eyes are gonna get stra from looking at a sc It's like screens This is just, we've got computers in car we've got computers at work, we have And it's kind of this thought of like, how do we integrate sc in a way that's healthy and thin and what we expose ourselves to?

- And so, you know, when I was growing up the only screens that really And it seems like a lot of research shows that that still is the primary thing that kids are looking at is TV screens.

And that is usually the most, you know, in some ways pernicious effect be they're sitting there watching a TV screen.

Can you talk a little bit about how difficult for parents to deal with these other things when they're no longer just worrying about keeping them away - I mean, I think it's true of parents of every generation that, you know, so much of parenting is trying to figure out what you have a roadmap for and what you don't have a roadmap for.

And parents having most anxi about the newest kind of thin and what they're supposed to do in order to keep t and in order to kind of ma I think, you know, you brought up television screens.

In our practice, we mostly hear about television as being a main concern for kind of younger kids, in the sense that parents feel guilty if they utilize television or like, you know, they're or kid in early elementary school like watching television.

But they know that like this is something where like if they put on an episode like "Bluey" or "Daniel Tiger," like their kid will stay foc and that show is meant to be at some lev and educational and they can't figure out though how much of a balance they're supposed to feel around how much they should use an d how guilty they should fe And a lot of times what we'll talk to parents abou like the research on, you know, young kids will kind of go back, espe to kind of the American Academy of Pediatrics and their recommendations there in thinking about really li of screen exposure for kids younger than two.

The main reason for that in kids younger than t that there are just so many developmental tasks you need to engage in as a kid younger than that really involves like just kind of looking around the world, trying to explore listening to speech that's spoken to you, not through a television, but in real li And in that sense, like I'l it is better for them to ride in a gr around the grocery store than it is for you know, on a television at home while you might be doing someth Because even riding around the groce it's not like you're playing it's not like but they're being exposed to They're developing their eyesight, they're listening to you know, those kinds of things.

So you know, in that sen like we don't want parents to feel like they're doing something terrib if from time to time, you they might be showing them something or they're seeing it b Then as you get to kind of younger child ages, it's thinking about balance.

So what we'll ofte we don't want you to feel guilty about having y It's more thinking about what you mig about their core kind of wellness and developmental tasks as they're watching TV.

So if you could check that they're going to school that they have real life frie where they're playing with other kids, you know, in real life, that you've got family inte and then it's not affecting their sleep, then you've kind of done away with a lot of the most pernicious effects of TV in y in the sense that like you're not parking them in front of it and making it so they're not having or real life family interactions or sleep issues.

But those are the things to really think about for young kids.

- Obviously we're talking a lot abou but what about older kids?

Because as kids get social media and things like an d harder to keep out of their hands.

So what is the wisdom about sc and in terms of teenagers?

- I mean, there's so much to kind of unpack in this and the first is to kind of think of it developmentall It's that frequently people will think of it as like, okay, I have a young child around whom I have a lot of and then I have a teenager who I've like given a phone and perhaps they have, you know, access to a computer for school or something like that.

And there's this sense that like te and there's like not as much control that adults have over what content teenagers get exposed to and how they use their screens.

I think the really important thin kind of screens on developmental level.

Like you look at parental tasks and parents are thinking about table manners, they're thinking about family celebrations, they're thinking about interpersonal skills they want their kids to exhibit on play dates.

They're thinking about how they want their to behave toward their coaches on, you know the soccer field or the softball or, you know, at swim practice, that kin And as kids grow up, you know, parents have all these kind of v about what skills they want to teach their kids.

And at some level, parents don't have a lot that they can go on as to how they teach their kids skil about being online.

And the way that thi that we teach any behavior.

It's a parent models their own a parent stays regulated when their kid is learning new and making mistakes.

A parent sets up their own rules what they expect to be their behavior online.

And then there's sort of this scaffolding of an I do, we do, you do model where you wanna be thinking about screens in the s Your kids watch what you do on screens, then they might be doing something with you and then eventually you might be releasing 'em in the wilderness with the in the same way that parents release teenagers to social events and hope that their teens make safe decisions a or drugs or drinking.

You wanna be having those conver so that when you release your kids online, you hope the same values you've been talking about for years are the ways that they might b So teenage behavior online, you lay the groundwork in how you watch your parents.

We know that a caregiver is gonna be online, we know that a caregiver's often gonna have a phone next to them.

And so we talk to caregivers, like there should be m where perhaps your kids do not see you on screens.

Like as in you eat dinner but your phone is in anoth or when you're playing with them, your phone is in another r because that a But they're gonna see you on An d the best thing that we can do i from time to time show kids what Oh, here's what email is.

Oh yeah, I was looki and I was looking someth or I was utilizing YouTube to learn somethi about how to actually cut this onion the r Or you know, I was watching this particular video or I was looking at some pictures that your aunt posted of and, you know, think about that onli Again, all of this is us modeling behavior whereas kids get curious, we can talk about how we behave online, how we make decisions, what content we make decisions about that we're expos that we expose them to.

And that really does But let's unpack another part of you know, take me another direction.

- So one of the main things that the Mayo Clinic, for instance, observes about the symptoms of too much screen time are some that I think to a lot of people, such as Things that I think you would assume go along with spending too much time in front But some of them are a little bit less instinctually o like behavioral problems and increase in violence.

So can you talk about that, because some have You're sitting there, you're not d But behavioral problems and violence to actually have to do with the content itself.

- Right, so what's really important to unpack about screens is kind of what's re in the research and then So, and this is really hard for parents to unpack because, look, you know, a conversation like this has a ch to actually unpack some of this nuance.

But what most people are seeing is a one to two minute spot on the news and that doesn't have a lot of time to unpack nuance.

And so what you tend to get is this kind of na that is fear-mongering, that is like k and making them think, okay, if I do this, then this is the cause for my kids.

What's really important to understand about screens is that, you know, when we're talking about youth mental we do not have evidence that screens them in terms of causing mental health disorders.

What we do have evidence of is that in particular for vulnerable youth populations, there can be an exacerbating effect that occurs with screens along certain populations.

And this was e to issue an advisory in the past year about sc and saying, "Look, we know there's enough here that we should be cautioning caregivers about certain negative effects that we While at the same time we should be cautious 'cause more research is needed, we need to understand this We have enough to be conc at the same time we need to kind of map what's known and what's not known."

So in that sense, we want parents to be thinking, okay, if my kid is prone to depression or anxiety or body image issues, there is solid research showing that a lot more time spent on social media with exposure to content that perhaps can exacerbate re ally accelerate a kid who's suffering.

In the sense that a kid who's anxious who go and because of algorithms online, finds more and more content to feed thei that could feed some anxiety.

A kid who's depressed and is who's then spending too much time onl and that's only increasing their isolation, their FOMO, their sense that their friends are having amazing lives and they're missing out on all of this stuff, it can increase that depression.

Kids who are having body image issues and were looking at filters online and, you know, kind of images that people have carefully cura but at the same time give 'em this sense that other bodies look bet that can really exacerbate symptoms.

At the same time, it's really important, and this goes back there is research showing positive effects of social media exposure for teens, particularly around teens who are ostracized or part of marginalized communities and need to find belonging online where they don't otherwise fin This is particularly strong, for in LGBTQ y where we can show that communities of belon validating communities that validate that youth's identity, and say, look, you're okay, it gets better, you've got friends here, we can talk you th actually decrease depressive symptoms and decrease suicidality and increase t that somebody might be well and actually find that kind of belon So again, it's kind of important for us to parse these things and make sure that parents an d this is another piece that I think we can unpack, screens are not necessarily driving the youth mental health crisis.

Screens are likely exacerbat for particular populations of vulnerable youth.

But if we're really gonna think about the youth me we need to think a lot wi th screens only being kind of l - I think that one of the things for parents trying that didn't help them obviously, was the pandemic.

And having kids cooped up for a longer period of time obviously led to a lot more screen time and it led to a lot of bad habits.

So can you talk a little bit about and habit breaking plays in the screen time battle?

- Yeah, so a lot of the conversations that we have with parents around screens, we'll start with taking inventory where we try to say to parents, "Okay, let's talk about when and then eventually we're gonna get to kind of wha and what the content is Bu t let's just look at when."

And for a lot of parents, you know what they'll say is that scre in terms of certain hot zones.

And they'll say like, "Look, when I'm trying for school in th bottom line is a TV on at breakfast or the kids being able to be on their pho or something like that keeps ev from being at each other's 'c ause we're Or people say, "Look, when they ge like allowing 'em to be on screens in the ev keeps everybody kind of watching content that they actually like or doing thi or interacting with their or playing video games they like.

But you know, I worry, I worry about..." And when we get into parental worries, a lot of them are centered around, "I worry about wheth they're not sp 'cause they're just trying t Or I worry that it's affectin Or I worry that it's affecting maybe their investment in extracurricular activities or maybe in trying to connec in real life rather than on video games, or you know, while they play in kind of these interconnected worlds."

And we'll say, "Well, look, there's a real bal So if you're looking at using screens in the morning, the most common question that we say to parents is, "What do you need to have happen in the morn before the screens happen?"

Because in all honesty, if like and that keeps people pacified, we would But we want your kids dr we want everybody to have eaten Like that's probably the thing by a certain time.

And then with wh boom, you know, maybe they're on the s with the understanding that unless they come o to go to school, you know, in a regulated way, they won't get access to it the next morning.

We'll set up that kind of pla Or we'll say, "Look, how much time does your your kid's teacher say they should be spending on homewo In that case, make sure there's a large enough time block in the afternoon for them to spend that time on homework where no screens are available.

You're not hurting them, you're not making it so Every kid's gonna make the "O h my god, all my fri You know, I don't have to not be on screens."

And your answer is, "Eh, if I have t for this moment, I'm gonna deal with it."

Because, you know, and I say this to pare like it's good at times that your child will ac of having the most boundaries.

That's okay as a parent.

That's actually a good healthy So you know, we have that moment where kids are really invested in homework or where we'll say like, "Look, o your job is go to soccer practice and hang with your friends afterw Ask a friend to go out for as k a friend to have some ice as k a friend to take a wal but like you're not gonna and just be on the screen.

You know, that's gonna be maybe an IR And then the other things we'll kind of think about are, like, you know what, how much sleep a kid needs and when we can put limits on screens and ensure that a kid is off of them.

Maybe some kids might use music to go to sleep or they might listen to a story to go to sleep.

That tends to happen more an But what we wanna remind parents is that people are incredibly dishonest wi about how much screens play a role in hurting their Like I'll say to parents, "Look, e where it goes off at midnight and I am not supposed to use it Now, granted, the phone will ask me, do I want to be reminded in 15 minutes It's not really as hard and fast as I want it to be 'cause the phone doesn't have an inter in having me be off of it, it just wants But I'll say like it's really important for to think about what behavior we're modeling and in that sense not to be actively eng We're realistic about the fact that many adults sti but it should be a show that's not suspenseful and one that perhaps gives you a neutral to positive emotional state that you can kind as opposed to like watching "Sca and like being riveted and having that delay your s And similarly, anything you're scrolling, clicking, or playing does not help you sleep.

It's very likely to kind of keep you awake.

We want to think about setting the same boundaries for ki and saying, "I do this for myself, I wann The last thing I'll talk about is like a hot zone for screen time for families is make screen time on the weekends be during the hours you need most for your wellness as a caretaker.

So like I have a seven year old an Their screen time tends to be somewhere around the hour before dinner and a little bit after dinner on weekends.

'Cause those are the moments where we and I'm getting tired, it's getting toward the fo r, you know, kids in this age range where like they're just tired and they start goi even if as siblings that we the whole day.

And that's kind the things done that we need to get done or get some dinner cooking and know that like our kids can be during that time.

And as long around when screens are used on weekends, kids get used to that and they expect it.

And it can also be something where, you kno it doesn't become a battle throughout the rest of the of like, "Hey, I don't wanna do this, can I just have the iPad?"

- So you mentioned a little about modeling b and that leads into the I mean, obviously most parents out there have Like you said, they have their phones, they go to sleep with a show, so How do you explain to a kid that this behavior is when they know obviously that you do it all the time and it seems like for most people, it probably doesn't hurt you, Th ey're looking at you saying, "Y you do this, so why can't I do this?"

So how do you recommend parents talk to kids like - I mean, the reality is that if yo so like this is the first thing.

We tell parents, like do a radi How often do you find yourself on a screen instead of moving your body or exercising the way that you Ho w often do you find yourself on a screen for work or doing something where you're checking an email or you're doing something where you don't even when you're eating lunch at work or something like tha How often do you really see your sleep be, you know, deleted based on screen activity?

Like in that sense, like parents would be like, "Oh, well, I wasn't tired."

And I'm like, "It and you're an incredibly tired caregiver who runs themselves ragged all day.

All this is is a second wind related t where you're sitting there thinking, I really do wanna wa But if you actually put your head on the pillow, you'd be asleep and that would act Like when you wake up in the morn you will not love your kids bu t you will bring a better version of yourself if you slept an extra hour.

And that's just kind of what And so we ask parents kind of So that does two things.

One is, A, it reminds parent that in a world full of screens it can be hard to put those limits even on So to expect your kids just to be lik "Oh, yes, we hear your wisdom and now we will limit ourselves on scree oh, wise parents."

It's difficult to do.

That's n And then the other thing that it helps parents not to in a perfectionistic Like there's no perfect screen Ev ery family is different, every family has differe with screens.

So, you kn what's important though is that once you've really ta you can articulate to kids what you do online.

So like my seven-year-old and my four-year-old know that I like to watch shows when I sit in their room at night because both kids, they like to have a parent, my wife and I kinda switch off in their room just s in their room at night and I'll watch a show on mute and on closed caption.

I've watched "Jack Rya I don't know what any of the voices but it's very suspenseful and it keeps me awake while I'm sitting in the dark in my kids' room for 15 minutes waiting be fore I leave.

But I'm telling my I'm watching a show, you know, while you fall asleep just 'cause daddy needs to stay awake so I can finish the dishes and be fore I go to sleep.

You know, that's w You know, I'm on Insta from some of my college friends who I do because they live in o and I wanna know what's What are you writing right now?

Oh, well, I'm writing the trip they're taking together or I think this was li of their family.

I want my kids to know what I' I want my kids to know what I'm writing in an email or why I'm taking a moment to write an email.

If I say, "Oh, honey, I've ju to write an email for work," I want them to know what I'll say, "Loo on this particular project for an important p I'm just gonna take a moment to s and then, you know, I'll be back to Marble Run or building with Legos or whatever we were that kind of stuff."

And it's really im because kids see why I'm making t and what I'm doing with screens, why I'm kind of doing things.

They know how I'm thinking about comments, what I'm thinking about in terms of texts.

And my seven-year-old has started over the last year.

And so frequen he now sees what my wife and I are or the last few.

So we're mindful about t "Oh, you've gotta come see this."

Not, "Oh my God, the kitchen i due to the slime project we were just doing."

Like that kind of stuff, and we can articul Lots of parents will say like, "I don't necessarily in my life."

And we s But the more you can explicitly sa and why online, the more your kid is likely to take that on as they're a teenager and into their twenties and think it was their idea.

- Now when I was a kid, I definitely noticed and perceived that some kids spent a lot more t they spent a lot more time on the internet, spent a lot more time work and with video games.

And it seems like a lot of the as adults have really go So this is a tough one because I do when parents said, you know, "Go and sit down and watch a be cause you might become a telecommunication sp but there is a genuine possibility that, hey, if you mess around with th and you learn some skills that maybe you will become a or maybe you will become a software engineer.

So how do you balance and how do you tell?

- Completely.

I mean, in a house where, you know, we had a centralized family computer in that my sister and I could both use.

Whereas, you know, if I think about my three closest I didn't get a video game system till I was in my teen years due to all the concern about "M and the violence there.

And so I would go to one fr I would go to another friend who had a computer in his basement where we'd really like try to fig how to like download stuff off the internet.

We'd try to get music and, yo in like the sort of pre-Napster days and then into the beginning of Napster.

And then, you know, I had another fr who also had a computer in a much in the house where we'd like Googl that we were interested in seeing that our parents weren But you know, we remember the exceptions.

Like the friend whose house I went to to p who actually had "Mortal Kombat," "Street Fighter," now works for a tech firm in Silicon I remember that story and I'll often say that to parents where like that's a story of, you know, screen rel But the reality is the kid who had th in Maryland and the other kid whose house I went o a decidedly non-screen related career as well.

So it's like, you know, we need to remember that like, yes, people will go into screen related careers, but that's so often the teenage argument as a kid will be like, "I have t because I'm going to design video games when I'm o And like, again, designing video games is sort of like saying that you're gonna play professional baseball.

Like only a few people really get to do it, and even if you're really good, you still may not get to the And we need to just kind of, you know, I keep going back with parents, the idea that like, it is ve that somebody's gonna use screens in their or that screens are gonna be a major part of whatever career they might have.

So if they can't write an email or if they can't engage in an online chat or if they don't know what's appropriate in an online chat, that's putting 'em at a real disadvantage for the workplace if they don't know what a video chat's or something like that.

Again, real disa So we want them to have the opportunity in school to video chat with their friends as they're working o to be on chat, to be an d to be on screens.

But it's a question as to kind of which scree really walk across to their future career.

And in that I tell parents to trust their gut.

Like your kids' amount of time playing v probably won't make it so they get one of those amazing Silicon Valley jobs.

But at the same time, you know, it's kind of this question of like, you know, as they're playing video games, if you're checking eve on the developmental check other than their video game playin and they're interacting with in the video games and the comments and chatter you hear them making te or as respectful as you'd like them to be if they were having a play date in real life, you're in pretty good shape.

- Speaking of technology, obviously we've got AI in people's minds and it's a topic for discussion.

How do you prepare parents for these rapidly changi - I mean, so you know, in general if we'r what we want to prepare parents for is that by age 15 or most kids have figured out their ways around any content filter Like it's just not, it's no longer effective.

Like, you know, in that sense, like a parent will be like, "Oh, wel Okay, fine, that might work.

You might be able to set, you know some sort of control or internet browsing at some level.

But most kids have figured out a myri or at least they can find them from their friends to get around these kinds of things.

And you know, even if they ca even if at some level you can set like boundar around what apps they download with parental or at some level put like some guardrails on internet content, again, the question is at some point they're going to have those guardrails taken off and how do you make sure that they're still So this notion that like the guardrails will be k until they're ready doesn't prepare somebody.

It's a similar thing as to, I say to parents, like in that sense it'd be like saying, "Okay, I'm gonna make it so my kid has no real un til they're 16 and then all of a sudden, they're supposed to know how to hang.

And like they've never actu at somebody's house or learned how to share or take turns or have conversations.

So how do we make sure that like we're monitoring their beha but we are understanding that like at some level, they'll probably get around content filters and be able to look at or or , you know, do stuff that but we're involved in their lives at an earlier st to think about how they're interacting with this content.

So, you know, it's going back to kind of middle school a lot of times where parents are first starting to give their kids independence.

And they're saying, to give you a profile on this particular a And on that profile, here's what I expect to see.

Here's what I expect to see in terms of my access to that profile and the comments that you make, the messages that you send.

And for a while, you know, this should where I have access to those things.

I will check it in frequently.

I don't plan to check it ver but when I do check, I won't tend to Like I'm not planning on looking at every m but my hope is that I see yo that I would ask you to behave if you know this was something in If you're making negative comments on other people's prof if you're sending, you if you're creating fake pr if you're, you know, we can we worry about kids engaging in online.

If you're looking at this type of content, you know it's gonna be fairly obvious.

And you know, that's when I won't be able to trust that you can independently be on these websites.

So show me that I can trust you and you'll get increasing levels of in It's the same thing as what we tell teenagers when they start getting curfews and they start bei and we start seeing them make de The other thing that's similar to what when they're out, you know, with their friends in a curfew is we'll always tell parents, when you're messaging about drug you tell your teens, "I don't want yo But at the same time, if you get in a real you call me.

The puni if you got into trouble and you ca than if you got into trouble and didn And it's a weird double speak that It's the same thing online.

It's saying, "Look, I trust and to make respectful comments and to be, you know, a respectful o At the same time, if you ever get in trouble, if someone's harassing you onli if someone's bullying you online if someone's trying to, yo any number of things, telling me about it will a than trying to hide it from me because I can Because what we worry about are these situations that teens get into.

And I just had thi with a patient of mine where someone and found photos of him that were compromising that they were gonna release to all the c if he didn't start sending them money.

And it's a really common kind of online And thankfully this kid was pretty smart, sent me a screenshot of it and just said, "This is ridiculous, you know, obviously I'm This person is claiming to have photos I never took."

You know, which is great that the kid but it's like one of those things we can easily see how a kid would be like, oh my god, you know, if they really have hacked my p like there's som Like I had a kid, you know, a couple years back wh and his friends smoking pot that his parents d "Oh my God, if that got out, like t But with those kids, like they're like, "Oh my god, my life And we'll do a strategy called We'll be like, "Really?

So what would happen Like, and And I'm like, "Yeah, and then w "Well, they'd probably "Okay, for how lon "I don't kno It'd be terrible, I wouldn't be I'd be like, "And then "Well, t about where I am and who I'm with and make sure to like kind of, we ll, I guess that's the same thing as what they're doing now."

And I'm like, "Right, it'd be two weeks of you being grounded and then you kind of go back to your and just have to kind And kids are like, "Oh yeah, I guess it And so at that point we're not gonna play into this Bu t that's where we want kids to if I really got into a jam, I could still utilize my parents an you know, perhaps my parent or my caregiver would be happy - So let's try to get down to some brass tacks for parents if we can.

There's a lot of confusion, I pa rticularly here, because there isn't so to point to a specific number and say this is the amount, right?

So it so for kids under two years old to have basically no screen time at all.

Obviously they'll see stuff from time to time, but they shouldn't have it as a part of the And then at over two years old, that it should be limited to an or less than two hours daily.

Can you talk about that?

Because there's well, these numbers may be true and they may be good and positive, but obviously to have less screen time is a but those benchmarks are largely arbitrary, they're not really based on anything.

So can you talk a little bit about that and how you recommend parents asse for their kids?

- Totally.

Because look that are coming from highly respected inst like the American Academy of Pediatrics that are trying to give parents some sort of roadmap look, if you're gonna hang your hat on something, in the same way as like a parent how many hours of sleep should this age child get as a way of like getting something?

They're also looking up like you know, should be allowed at this particular age.

And you know, to the point that you were just summarizi it's not so much that these are gospel.

There is a somewhat arbitrary aspect of this where what we're really talking about in screen time guidelines is managing risk.

It's trying to say, here are the risks we know about.

And if we're trying to get down to brass tacks and say, look, here's the amount of time, we're trying to be both realistic and then also think about how much that age kid should be spendi Like the reason why we don't want two year old kids and under to be on screens too much is that there are so many important developmental ta where we can show it's not so much the screens are insidiously Like, you know, a one year old seeing an e of something on television is not going to necessarily harm them.

It's more that we know they shou that are really important for their development during that time.

And where there' for what's happening in For, you know, the age range wher that they have no more than an hour or two and that, you know, that should be spent, and there's always these recommendations about like, you know, an d or FaceTiming relatives, which came up during the pandemic as kind of a recommendation.

Again, this is people inde It's saying for kids who are spending this much time on screens, it's less likely that certain really important developmental task gonna be displaced.

When you get into the teenage ye the way that we're thinking about it is that there's sort of a gold Teens should be on screens to a certain degree.

They need to understand that world.

It's bad to arrive at college having never been on s in this day and age.

So in that sense but that just right amount is not necessarily universally ag and screen related behavior.

It's more about this idea that if you've got an adole you know, what we know is they should have some screen time and then beyond three hours a day, there are particularly negative ef So somewhere in there, between this kind of zero and three it might be the porridge being just right for a teenager, where they're still engaging, they're still learning about th ey might be ut they might be engaging with th ey might be connecting with peers, they might be learni they might be watching shows.

But at the end of th what we know to be the negativ that adolescents who spend more than three hours on inevitably they're more likely to report mental health concerns and they're more likely to report feelings of isolati They're more likely to report that, you know, th And again, we don't know that the things they're doing on the screens at that moment or during those hours are intrinsically ha What we know is that at the end of the day, having spent that much time on screens, they, A, have not engaged in the tasks and B, tend to feel pretty badly about themselves.

And we want to decrease those effects.

So the more we can see parents who are saying, "Okay, maybe my teenager is spending an hour or two on average during the week, and then on the weekends th perhaps on screens, but I'm also aware of wh in their online world," that's kind of whe - And what about when it comes to cell phones?

Because obviously a kid arrivi having never spent meaningful time in front of a scr going to be at a disadvantage.

Similarly, I think a kid arriving a having never spent time working with a mob might be at some sort of similar disadvantage.

So I think most parents are giving their kids cell at some point.

What's the recommendat It's obviously way more diff to keep track of screen time once they've got that in So how do parents navigate t - Right.

I mean, about parent communities who will make pacts, you k to try to get to the end of middle school without giving the kids cell phones and stu Realistically, we're seeing late elementary school, early middle school as the times when a lot of kids are perhaps seei their first device or cell phone.

And a lot of kids even in younger ages are getting their first device in elementary school, like where there might be a particular tablet that a kid is using, you know, to watch shows or consume content, So, you know, what we think about is like if a kid is first getting a cell pho we want parents to be clear on the rules of the road.

And there are lots of organizations, Common Sense th e Child Mind Institute, many others that are on kind of youth mental health where there are guides online sayi "Before you get your kid a phone, here's the contract to think about, here are the things to think abou about like what yo Here are some apps where you can set up controls about, for example, what apps they download from the app store and what they're allowed to kind of access, what accounts they can set up, and how you have access to So even for non-screen savvy parents, there are a lot of resources out there to say like, "Look, even if you're not on or you're not on Instagram, here are ways to set up fo r your kids, as they say, I have to be on these so I'm not l But for most kids, it's somewhere around middle sc And the framing for most parents is that this is not, especially around middle school, it's not necessarily they're givi so that they can use it on their own independently without any monitoring.

It's that in middle school, we're often saying like an d checked out for certain things.

The kid does not need to think that it's to have this in their room at all times.

In many ways, it should be a device for their social life for them to communicate with their friends.

And in the event that as a middle scho they're starting to venture out and go on more independent yo u know, with their friends, it's a devic and for their parents to kind of know where the and know that they're safe.

And then beyond that, as they start to get into the use of the p a lot of times what we'll say to parents is like, "If they're starting to utilize a new app or they're starting to get into so have them sit down and explain to you what they're doing on it, like what it's like."

Because it makes for better conversations as time goes on with between the parent and the child if you've got some idea of l just the landscape of Instagram.

The fact that like a parent can know that you've got friends on Instagram that at the same time you could search for conte and then you also have these reel that can get fed t as you're looking at this, and that those are t that you can do on that app and they should, you know, be aware of what their kid might be doing and And we'll often tell parents like, it's really interesting.

Even if you spent 30 seconds looking, for example, at some apps like TikTok and Instagram, the algorithm has figured out what your kid li It has figured it out by how long they stay on it and where they're, you know, how much eye contact they're wi th that particular thi And so like if you wanna get and you watch for 30 seconds your teenage son or daughter's TikTok, you will know what content they're really inter And that leads to a lot of questions and a lot of conversation.

So even saying to yo "I'm gonna get to watch your yo u know, once a week," like you're gonna see like, oh, my kid's into sports highlights, and at the same time super violent pranks.

Like this is not something that I feel okay about.

Why are we watching this?

And like that kind of th Or I'll at a lot of, you know, content that's focused on getting the perfect body or cosmetics or like, you know, that kind of thing.

And like that makes me have qu about like how my teen is an d that's, it's a good thing to have kind of and to be their digital neighbor.

- And lastly, the big question we have for you here really about long-term effects.

I think we've talked a lot about the so where parents are thinking about th and addressing it from the but I think the reality is that a lot of parents are an d saying, "These kids are already spending way too much time on screens.

It's out of control already and now we need to reign So can you talk a little bit about what are som and what can parents do to try and reverse the course?

- In general, and I th that we see a lot of parents who will say, "Look, I didn't anticipate this, Like, I've got a busy life, I've been working to make ends mee You know, I didn't exactly have time to like learn my kids' onlin and know exactly what they're doing, but like right now I am co or I'm concerned about the amount of time they're or the video games they're playing or what they're seeing on And we say to parents it's like, it's never too late to start an d to kind of get in the middle of it.

And you know, especially because, and this goes back to whether it's it's curfew, whether it's transportation, you know, even with older teens, parents are often still holding, t the keys to the kingdom.

Like there's curfe there's some level of like mo to be able to go out and get a hotdog with friends or see a movie, there's transportation, and there's the fact they're likely paying for that phone.

So given that you hold some control over that you don't really want to flex that unless it's a real emergency.

You know, that's kinda like like, here's the wall.

But you know, as you'r you can express this kind of concern to a teen.

Now what's really important is this.

If a teen is spending too much time online or too much time on screen related activities and parents becoming really concerned, don't reject the screen related activities t Express concern about the teen, but then move with curiosity into trying to understand their world and how And then figuring out what their goals might be and how you can collaboratively set them.

So I'll So we'll often tell parents, it's like if I'm trying to g to change th "Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat, these are all useless wastes of time.

I can't believe that your iPhone reports that you spent 27 hours on these things in the last five days.

Like you are rotting your Th is is an important part of teens' world.

If you say that, their answer is "You just don't get me.

Like, there's no way you're gonna get me.

Sure, I'll go through the dog and pony s of maybe like allying with you on the fact that, like, I should cut down or listen to you just so I don't get my phone taken away."

But you're never gonna get to that place where they make decisions in the same way as anyone.

Like you don't make de I always give parents the exam when I first joined a gym when I was living in I was so excited because I just got a gym m and it was my first gym membership, and you know, you with a personal trainer.

And the first person "Why are you lifting like that?

Your form is terrible.

You're never g I did not go forward in that personal training session.

I said, "You know what, I'm good.

You must have been mista I don't need a fre The second one came over and was like, "I'm so glad you've made gre and I cannot wait to be your partner on this journey."

And I was like, "I like this guy.

Like this guy's gonna help An d that's a similar thing for teenagers.

If you come into it and say, "Look, I'm c because there are certain thin that I want to help you with.

Where, like, I feel li about school, we're not on the same page about like the fact you quit t and I'm worried about that.

I don't want on your phone when you could have been playing, you know, lacrosse or field hockey.

Like there was an opportunity ther I want to figure out how to find balance.

You know, can you help me understand like how you're spending y And it may not be in the first conversation and you don't have to be all that understanding, but the more you understand why they're online, the more you might be able to get a teen to sa "You know what?

You're right.

I don't I would like your help w 'Cause you're not rejecting their world.

In the event that you have a teen who g or says, "No, I'm not gonna stop.

Like, I don't care.

I quit s Just leave me alone.

Let me be on my phon You know, what I often tell parents is that may be the reason to seek help from mental health pro or any other community member wh to kind of help you with this situatio Or it may be the moment to go to a p We're saying like, "Look, I'm if you can't engage with me on doing something more healthy.

And I'm gonna have to remove the phone, I'm gonna have to remove so that we can actually meet somewhere in the And that's a, it's a really tough place to be with and that's why we often reco - Thank you very much for your time today, Dr. Anderson.

That was a really amazing discussion about screen and we got some really interesting perspectives and suggestions for parents.

- What I will... What I will say to parents is this, as kind of a final closing message.

It's just that I cannot tell you how disproportionate we as a society in how we view risk.

So, you know, we want parents to take a safety and, to be sure, there is research at this stage that is the reason for the Surgeon General's advisory.

That we know there are certain vulnerable populations of kids or particular lines of vulnerabili We want to caution parents and make sure they're th in a practical and kind of thoughtful w about how their kids interact with screens.

At the same time, the drivers of youth So when we talk in this country about, you know, youth mental health and particularly about the wh ich was the Surgeon General's report prior to the current one on screens, where the Surgeon General didn't just issue an advisory, but instead said in much stronger terms, "We are at a crisis point for youth mental health in terms of rising hospitalizations Ou r hypothesis is that while screens can play a role in exacerbating mental health for teens or certain youth who are vulnerable, they're not driving mental health crisis.

That access to care, prevention focused work around mental health, breaking down stigma, talking of mental health, giving kids mental health skills from early ages, making sure they have access to providers, making sure that mental heal under insurance, making sure th and able to provide for the mental health needs of our population, and as a country agree food insecurity, you know, incredible kind of like family stress and conflict and things like that are much more likely to be drivers of negative youth mental health than time perhaps spent playing video And if we can kind of think through that a little bit more, I think we can turn our attention to the things that are going rather than some of the things that might be playing like a role at the Like, you know, and that's where if we're really thinking about how to kind of solve this crisis together, screens are part of a multifaceted sol that involve showing up for our youth and thinking about what they really need to be able to support them and to b - For Idea Stream Public Media, I'm Yga Thanks for joining us for this Ohio Learns 360 webinar and please join us for future webinars on other topics.