(upbeat music) - [Commentator] This is "Carolina Business Review," major support provided by Colonial Life, providing benefits to employees to help them protect their families, their finances, and their futures.

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- Right around the Memorial Day Remembrance, we rightfully so turn the attention to the women and the men of the armed forces.

Over the past several decades, through expansions, through economic contractions, through the rise and the fall in industrial leaders in the Carolinas, one of the things that has remained consistent, the military involvement and the headcount of the armed forces here in the Carolinas.

Welcome again to the most widely watched and the longest running program on Carolina business policy and public affairs seen every week across North and South Carolina.

Thank you for joining us.

In a moment, what do veterans mean to us now?

Where do they interface between things like job shortage, mental health, innovation, business and industry?

Are there broad untapped resources of our military population going unnoticed?

And what else might we be missing?

We start our dialogue right now.

- [Commentator] Major funding also by Blue Cross Blue Shield of South Carolina, an independent licensee of the Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association.

And Martin Marietta, a leading provider of natural resource-based building materials, providing the foundation on which our communities improve and grow.

On this edition of "Carolina Business Review," Scott Dorney from the NC Military Business Center, Annette Redman from Booz Allen Hamilton, Dorothea Bernique of Increasing Hope Financial Training Center, and David Rozelle from the South Carolina Department of Veterans' Affairs.

(dramatic music) - Welcome to our program and happy Memorial Day.

It seems appropriate to say that among veterans.

Thank you all for your service, truly.

- Absolutely.

- Thank you.

- I know that it's being said now, back in the seventies and eighties it wasn't so popular to be in the military, but it's a different thing now.

And Scott, I'm gonna start with you.

You're a, no pun intended, a veteran of the show as well, and I wanna here at the top of the program, I wanna come clean about the DEI on our panel because we have three Army and one Air Force.

(group laughing) It's not nearly enough balance.

I am an Air Force veteran, so I got you back here a little bit.

- Awesome.

- I don't know if means anything to you.

Scott, so you hail from Fayetteville, of course, that is currently Fort Bragg, but as of June 2nd will be rebranded Fort Liberty.

And it's more than a rebranding.

What's the sense of the new name for a historic military installation on the globe?

- Well, it is a historic institution, as you know, founded in 1918 right during World War I and millions and millions of soldiers had passed through Fort Bragg and World War I, world War II, Korea, of course Vietnam, and our latest conflicts as well.

So there's a lot of emotional attachment around the name with veterans.

At the same time, there's a realization that it is the law.

Rebranding of our installations was included in the National Defense Authorization Act.

Fort Bragg will be rebranded as Fort Liberty on June the 2nd.

It'll actually be the last of the Army installations to be renamed that will go through the rebranding process.

So the name is unique, it is not named for a person or a group of people.

And one reason for that is there have been so many Medal of Honor recipients who have trained at and come through Fort Bragg, it was hard, harder probably at Fort Bragg than other installations to select one appropriate name.

And I believe it was a gold star mother that said, "I think we should name it Fort Liberty."

And it's stuck.

- You know, Annette, you, you spent some time, or do spend some time in Fayetteville, obviously, with your background in the Army as a retired Army officer, but also with Booz Allen.

So given the historic relationship between the military and the Carolinas and certainly Fort Bragg, but also South Carolina and just the pure headcount of men and women in the military that have passed through and have stayed and are here and are serving and are active and are inactive.

Is this a, I don't wanna overstate this, is this a new era with military and veterans now coming out of what happened with not just George Floyd, but DEI, working from home, all of these new initiatives that are reshaping communities?

- It absolutely is and that's something that I think there was pluses and minuses that came out of COVID.

It taught us that there were new ways of working, kind of we're settling in more into a hybrid model.

I think that gives sometimes, especially our military spouses, we have a large military spouse population within Booz Allen, that provides some flexibility as they move on to their next transition, or transition to their next duty station.

But it absolutely, I think the way we work has definitely changed over the past two years.

- Dorothea, what do you think?

- I think that's certainly the case also from the standpoint that veterans are able to provide the flexibility, they understand, are able to change and morph into what is needed because that's just been a part of who they are.

- What do you think, Captain?

I'm sorry, Colonel.

That was terrible.

- That's okay, I'll forgive you.

(group laughing) You know, we're seeing it in South Carolina too.

I was looking at a report yesterday that people are coming back to installations in South Carolina in order to retire here.

And you know, we don't wanna set that as a trend to be your last assignment at Fort Jackson or down in Charleston, but because of the great manufacturing jobs that we have and especially the DOD support positions that they have available and they can transfer right into.

It's been great for us that there is this reckoning with, okay, we wanna be in the South and we wanna come to these jobs because North Carolina, South Carolina have the businesses that allow it.

- Go ahead, please.

- I was gonna say, not only that, South Carolina just recently, of course, did the non-taxable on the retirement pay.

And so that is serving also as a reason for the veterans to not only come, but to remain in our state.

- Well, and like me, you know, retiring doesn't mean that you're retiring.

- Right.

- I did 27 years, a young colonel, if you will.

And then I do have, I hope, 20 more years of work before I hang it up.

And so that's the case in South Carolina, whether you served a day or whether you served 30 years, there's still a 20-year career or more for our veterans that are retiring or separating in South Carolina.

- I think that's a great point.

I mean, folks either retiring from the military or veterans getting out of the service, they can go anywhere.

Particularly retirees are attracted to things like military installations with hospitals and commissaries, but they're all over the United States.

Why do they come to North Carolina and South Carolina?

I had General Keane asked me one time, "Why did you retire here?"

Number one, it's the people.

- Right.

- That we tend to work with in our community spirit.

And secondly is the business environment.

It's not just that businesses understand the value of veterans, which they do, but the business climate that we enjoy here in North Carolina and South Carolina is unique nationally.

- Okay, so let's unpack this a little bit.

So you've got, as you all have talked about, not just the critical mass of military in the Carolinas, but, and Colonel, you talked about how folks are coming back.

I didn't know about the tax benefit.

- Yeah.

- So as all of this happens, it seems like the military has some resource between, and I'm not even gonna say this right, but the resource between some big debate around immigration policy right now, but what businesses will tell you if we can fix that, then we no longer have a talent shortage.

Does the military play a role somewhere in there with the level of talent that can be plugged in?

- Yeah, absolutely.

So I mean, in Booz Allen, we put a big premium on trying to attract and retain veterans, not only for the experience that they bring and the functional and technical skills that they have, but they bring intangibles too.

They're adaptable.

They bring the leadership piece of that, communication skills, mission focus.

And what we find in this war for talent that you mentioned is we have to grow our own a lot.

So you have to upskill and reskill.

And so veterans often have an aptitude for learning new skills.

And so that I think is a market that we really try to focus in on and offer programs to bring forward those new- - Can you though, can you deploy that potential?

- Well, and if I may it, the problem in South Carolina and North Carolina is that most of our veterans are underemployed.

So it's not an unemployment problem for our veterans.

In fact, there's very few that aren't working 'cause out of the 400,000 veterans in South Carolina, there are 40% that aren't in a working age, but there's 60% of that 400,000 that are at the working age.

And they came home, they transitioned out without a good transition program, without a good mentor to bring them into the right employment.

So they are stuck, a lot of them.

And we have to raise them up.

And so we have to have HR experts that look at them and say, "Wow, he may have done just that in the military, but they served, they led, they had this responsibility, they have a clearance, right?"

And then we need to find a way to lift them up and we just have to train our HR folks to do it better, honestly.

- Well, one of the good things about the military is cross-training.

I mean, how many times have you heard that term?

Is that right?

Is that a resource?

- I think it is a resource and an opportunity, but we also cannot forget the opportunity for entrepreneurship.

And that's a area where we can also assist our veterans with actually taking the skillsets that they have in becoming small business owners that we're talking about in the community.

And so many of them have the opportunity to do that, but maybe do not have the infrastructure, the systems to support them in becoming entrepreneurs.

And so that's a great need in our community.

- I'm sorry, Dorothea, do they know to ask, do they even know it's out there?

- There are transitional programs that help them and that assist them and bring that to their attention, but I don't think it's as prevalent probably as it could.

- And we were just awarded our first small business association VBOC, which is they teach the boost a business program in Charleston.

It will open on June 5th.

- Yep.

- And that will be our first stab at it.

University of South Carolina also just opened a veteran entrepreneurship program in their master's degree, in their master's program for the school of business.

So we are starting and we're keeping it going finally.

- And we are the third SBA women's business center in state of South Carolina.

So veterans our women veterans and minorities are focused there.

- And it's the growing population.

Right now it's only about 16 to 17% of the workforce in South Carolina.

We envision it being 23 to 24% in the next five years.

So we are latching onto that when women in the workforce is changing in South Carolina.

And I think it's the same demographics in North Carolina.

I don't wanna speak on it.

- Yeah, we have, in North Carolina, we have almost a million veterans in our state, over 750,000.

And just from our bases in North Carolina, we transition out 16 to 18,000 military people every year.

And they bring tremendous skills, tremendous talents, great soft skills.

But there are challenges, there are challenges both on the military side and on the civilian employer side I believe that make this job a little harder than you might think.

- So is that because those two sides don't talk the same language or is it just budget?

- It is.

If you just think of our cross section of our population right now, less than 10% of our population has ever served in the military.

So we have business owners, HR directors that don't have that experience.

What they do have is an appreciation.

They know they wanna hire veterans because they know about the great skills, soft skills that they bring.

But they often have misunderstanding of what types of jobs people have done in the military.

If I had a nickel for every employer that called me and wanted to hire a machinist coming out of the military, I'd be rich.

They don't really understand.

Most of our soldiers are combat infantrymen, riflemen, artilleryman.

Certainly we have avionics technicians and mechanics who have a natural cross fit, but what we really need are employers to understand that with the right amount of even short-term training, making these veterans job-ready will pay them long-term dividends for many years in their businesses.

- Is that getting better?

- Yeah, you know, one of the things we did in 2020 was institute our mill tech program.

And that is really working broadly across the community.

So what it does is it really tries to help transitioning veterans and spouses, you know, find future-focused careers and helps build out a roadmap before they transition.

And so it includes things like fellowships and internships with a number of programs like Hire Our Heroes, we have a corporate fellowship with them, and others and then bringing them in to helping them upscale into reskill.

And so I think you're exactly right.

It's identifying them early on, helping to bridge that gap between what their resumes say and what are the needs in the civilian side.

So having resources, recruiters, and HR specialists that can translate that and look at a resume and say, "Okay, this person can do this job."

Otherwise you miss out on really wonderful talent if you can't do that.

- So lemme wrap this up 'cause I wanna move on to another thing that's been front and center in military for many decades, but do you feel like you have, do you feel like the Departments of Commerce in both states, South Carolina Commerce, North Carolina commerce, has got your back?

- Absolutely, and that commerce has tied in, you know, another cabinet agency like us, but they're also tied in with the Department of Education.

So as you look out across all the technical schools, the only thing I say back to big business is be patient.

Right?

Have the HR identify someone that's got the capability to lead, then let them go get that technical competency they need at a technical school, taking advantage of the veteran's benefits and follow them, mentor them, have someone from your organization say, "Hey, this is what you need to study."

And then bring 'em back and then hire 'em, you know?

- Absolutely.

- Hire 'em for the right wage.

- Right, and I think it's important too to recognize and to help our HR individuals recognize that there are some things that are innate within individuals like their character, their work ethic, their commitment and dedication, that you can't teach that, but you can teach them the skillset of that job.

- That exactly right.

- What the military brings to the table is just that.

- And I think we do need to credit the Department of Defense reinitiating what they call the SkillBridge Program several years ago that allows soldiers, sailors, Airmen, Marines in their last year of service, they go into the transition program.

In the last six months of their service, they can go into short-term training programs at community colleges, at universities, and internships with industry.

And that has allowed a lot of folks to be able to fully integrate it into the economy.

- And Scott, lemme, sorry to interrupt you.

Let me stay with you, just one second and very quickly.

It would be obvious that DOD is gonna push out the men and women in service, absolutely.

They wanna support 'em.

But again, we come back to commerce and we come back to business and industry.

Are there good enough bridges built between commerce and military, at least in North Carolina?

- You know, it certainly has gotten better over the years.

Governor McCrory initiated and has sustained through several other administrations, a new department of North Carolina Department of Military and Veterans Affairs that both addresses issues that come out of our military installations to improve quality of life.

- Is that a cabinet post?

- Is that?

- It's a cabinet post, part of the secretary is on the council of state.

- Yeah.

- So they address both issues that are identified by our military installations, everything from encroachment for training, as well as making sure that we're doing all we can to facilitate those transitions.

- And I'd say in South Carolina, not yet.

I mean at South Carolina Department of Veterans Affairs, we're doing that business and DOD needs to not be passive about Skills Bridge.

They should be active and they should be recruiting big business.

- What's the hold up?

- Well unfortunately, it's a difficult process to go through.

And I know some folks that I've talked to into SkillBridge, they went to file it and they said, "David, this is too much work and it's not worth it for us because we're not getting the talent."

DOD should push that out, but it's not part of their mission, right?

They're meant to fight and win wars across the world.

So it's not about employing their veterans.

- Hold on to that.

Let shift.

We have about 10 minutes left.

In 2020.

I wanna read this statistic and then I'm gonna bring in a question.

In 2020, there were 6,146 veteran suicides, on average almost 17 per day.

I wanna take a second, we wanna take a second, on the screen right now is a suicide prevention hotline.

Even if this changes one person's life, please use that number.

But I wanna unpack from that the idea that veterans particularly, and not just since 2020, have been faced with behavioral and mental health challenges coming out of combat, coming outta situations, but just in general it is, of course, unacceptable for everyone.

Who wants to take the lead on this one?

And how do we start?

First question, let me throw this out.

The first question is, since 2020, do you feel like there there is now a champion for mental health issues because it's become so effuse and ubiquitous in organizations in general?

And will that help the veterans?

David, do you wanna go?

- Well, the governor of South Carolina appointed us to run the Governor's Challenge to reduce suicide among veterans in South Carolina.

So I am running the lead agency for that in South Carolina.

And it's really about asking the question.

So whether a police officer engages a person and they're able to say, "Are you a veteran?"

That can put them into a special category, whether it's a veterans treatment court, or they get special benefits from the Virginia, or get the enrollment up, or whether it's an employer that when they meet a veteran can say, "Are you a veteran?"

And through that process, guide them the right way.

And so through South Carolina Department of Veterans' Affairs, they go to our website and we can link them with the health services they need and to get them in the right place.

And there are moments of instability, but it's really about the transition.

If we can get the transition of veterans right up front, we won't have the problem 'cause the 22 a day that people talk about isn't my generation, believe it or not, it's actually the Vietnam veteran era that did not transition well, that did not get the thank you for your service.

And they're the ones that unfortunately are killing themselves at large numbers.

This population, if we get the transition right, we can change this narrative and then we've got about 20 years to do it and it's gonna take business to be part of it.

It's gonna take state to be part of it.

It's gotta be federal, it's gotta be a coalition of people working together to change that in America, honestly.

- Annette, Dorothea, are you encouraged that as David goes through statistics, that this is gonna happen, this is gonna work?

- Well, I think there's definitely a much greater awareness than what there're used to be in the past.

And even on the corporate side, resources that are dedicated to that, to supporting our veteran population, there's not the stigma attached to it that there used to be.

I mean, a lot a times one of the things that precluded people from getting help was they were afraid they were gonna lose their security clearance.

That's no longer the case.

And so I think that that, so I do think that as we bridge that gap and transition people better and they have hope that they have a bright future, I think that that will get better.

- One of the things that happens with any issue in communities, reproductive rights, housing, employment, is there are champions for that because you wanna be on the right side of history and being on the right side of history to prevent suicides in the veteran community.

And I'm I'm asking you both here, do you both feel like there are champions now for this behavioral health issue?

- I do believe that there are champions and I think it starts from the ground up and thinking that it's always gonna come from the top down is not always what happens.

And so we have to start at the level where we are.

And so even as service providers, whether it's the VBOCs or entities like myself with the Women's Business Center, we have to understand the need to integrate assistance in the mental health area from every level, at every level.

So things are not always gonna walk around and you see someone acting out of this, but just that everyday stress, depression, anxiety.

And so realizing that is just a part of life for all of us, not just our veterans.

And integrating that into the services that we provide is very crucial.

- I think there's been great developments at all levels.

Nationally I have to credit the VA with the actions they've taken and awareness on this issue at the state level, our Department of Military and Veterans Affairs has great resources available.

I really wanna compliment businesses who have done a terrific job in building organizations within their businesses, large and small, for veterans to meet together and build a veteran-friendly environment.

But I also wanna emphasize one thing.

Any suicide, any problem like this, even one of 'em is too many.

But I wanna encourage employers.

I think that there's a misperception of the propensity of veterans to suffer from these types of issues.

The great majority do not come to your business with these issues.

And although they benefit greatly from that type of support environment, these folks are gonna make great employees for your business.

- How do you destigmatize that?

- Well, I think it's through mentorship.

It's folks like us talking about it.

People, especially in the African American community, coming out and saying, "I'm going through a mental health crisis.

I need help."

We see celebrities doing it now, but you've pointed out it's gotta be a local solution for local problems.

It can't be a nationwide campaign or a billboard.

It has to be people in the community standing up and saying, "I went and got help.

I went and got what I needed and then challenge the young people to go and do that too."

And I say that strangely to say young people, but I really mean that.

Those that are separate, those that are transitioning, with stable employment, with stable housing, and stable healthcare, there won't be a suicide problem.

And we've gotta fix those three before we get into individual help.

- And I think too, what you were talking about too, the community, you know, I mean within big business, we have business resource groups, and affinity groups, and veterans groups, and spouse groups.

And so I think that that also helps a lot because it's folks that are like-minded.

They can share their experiences, what they're going through and just a great resource.

- We have about three minutes left.

Housing, housing is an issue.

Workforce housing, used to call it affordable housing, now it's workforce housing.

Now it's just trying to, and especially in a place not picking on you Dorothea, but a place like Charleston.

- Yeah.

- Trying to live on the peninsula, forget about it.

- Exactly.

- Trying to live in Mount Pleasant, the same thing.

Right?

So you're living out in Summerville, you're living in Pinopolis, you're driving in from Orangeburg, wherever.

Is there a different dynamic for veterans when it comes to housing than there is in the broader issue?

Is there a solution that works within the veterans community when it comes to affordable housing?

What works, what's happening?

- Well, I think number one, recognizing the tools that the veterans have from the standpoint of 100% financing and the programs that our lenders, banking lenders have of down payment assistance and understanding how that works and making it available to our veterans.

South Carolina housing has a program where our veterans get down payment assistance, are made aware of those programs, can implement it, helping them understand their, what is it?

- Their options?

- Yeah, their options.

- The benefits.

- The benefits.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Helping them understand their benefits because some of 'em are really not aware.

The other thing is helping them understand the importance of their credit and the role that that plays, especially for our young Airmen that are coming out.

That's very, very important.

And so having a place that Increasing H.O.P.E.

does is providing wraparound services in all of those areas that include the affordable housing, include their personal finances, include their credit, and making sure that they understand the dynamics of how all of those fit together.

- Scott, about 30 seconds, how would you answer that question?

- I would really look at the active duty side.

I would tell you all of the commanders at the bases at North Carolina had a chance to meet with 'em just last week.

And it's all about housing, it's about schools, and it's about childcare.

These are common threads that are issues and challenges for all of our military installations.

Having adequate, affordable housing, have quality schools for them to send their kids to, and childcare that they can utilize so spouses can work.

We have 800 people on a waiting list, there's probably even hundreds more that don't get on a waiting list.

- Yeah.

- For childcare.

It's an issue.

- Thank you to you all, but more importantly, and I genuinely mean this, thanks for your service.

Army or not, thank you for your service.

(group laughing) - Yours as well, yours as well.

- [Host] Seriously, thank you.

Thank you to you all.

- Thank you for having us.

- Thank you for watching our program.

We certainly hope you enjoy your Memorial Day and thank you for your support here.

Goodnight.

- Thank you.

(dramatic music) - [Commentator] Gratefully acknowledging support by Martin Marietta, Blue Cross Blue Shield of South Carolina, Sonoco, High Point University, Colonial Life, and by viewers like you.

Thank you.

For more information, visit Carolinabusinessreview.org.

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