(gentle upbeat music) - And welcome back to Family Health Matters.

I'm Shelley Irwin.

With me today are those experts, Dr. Kellen Stilwell, fellow, and child and adolescent psychiatrist, Vonnie Woodrick, founder of the non-profit, I Understand.

Author and certified life coach, Dr. Krissa Kirby, pediatric pain psychologist, and Zoey Winship with us as well.

So a big round table discussion we are to have about a very important topic as May is Mental Health Awareness Month.

Let me ask how you are each involved in this topic, and I will begin with you, if I may, Krissa Kirby, Dr. Kirby.

- Yes, I am a pediatric pain psychologist at Mary Free Bed.

And so most of the patients that I work with are adolescents, and adolescents that are struggling with a variety of mental health issues, and definitely chronic pain as well.

- Yes, tell us about you if you would, Vonnie, Yvonne.

- Yeah, hi.

I'm Vonnie Woodrick, founder of I Understand the nonprofit organization that support those, that who've lost a loved one to death by suicide, or are living with a mental brain health illness.

- Right.

Thank you for that.

Dr. Stilwell, what is your life like on the job?

- So, yeah, I am a medical doctor.

I graduated from Michigan State University and I took in at residency and adult psychiatry here at Pine Rest, and over the past year and a half, and I'll will for the next year train in childhood and adolescent psychiatry to help serve the psychiatric needs of kids and young adults in our community.

- Nice.

Last but not least, Zoey, we welcome you to our conversation.

It was important to have a teen as we're talking about teens.

So you represent teens.

Tell us a little bit about you on behalf of Wedgewood.

- So I joined Wedgewood and hope to like help inspire other people, and that's what we've been doing and then helping teens and like show them and then being also like in the position to show adults (indistinct) - Great.

Thank you for that.

All right.

Gentle men, gentle women.

Are we involved in a mental health crisis with teens?

I'll start with you, Vonnie.

- Yeah, absolutely.

The teen crisis, I think is based, become the isolation.

I mean, the CDC just put out a report that I would highly recommend a lot of the parents to look at.

And the increase has been significant due to the isolation and the effects that COVID has had.

- What do you add to that, Dr. Kirby?

- Yes, I think that is correct.

I just reviewed those statistics before coming on and so there is definitely an exacerbation of mental health issues in youth due to the pandemic.

We were already in trouble as it was pre-pandemic, but it's just made things worse.

- Hmm.

Dr. Stilwell, are you busy?

- Yeah, I would just echo that.

I think, like she said, we're always in a crisis I think, but the pandemic has added a lot of that.

And from the Pine Rest and we're seeing an influx of patients that are just really struggling.

- What do you have to add to this, Zoey, as you look around at your peers, would you call this a crisis?

- Yeah.

I mean, it's definitely like Dr. Kirby said, it's definitely gotten worse since the pandemic has started.

It's definitely added a lot of stress onto many of us, if not all.

So, yeah.

- Yeah, yeah.

And I'll stay with you, Zoey, I'll jump around a bit, but how in general do you and your teen deal with stress these days?

Good, bad or ugly?

- I feel like a lot of the ways that we deal with stress is, well, one way that I've noticed a lot of being in eighth grade is we all try to hang out with each other, almost try to like distract each other from all the stress.

So trying to relieve it by just hanging out with people.

Yeah.

Most of the things I see is just like trying to distract yourself, figuring out ways to cope with it, so maybe just taking a break, taking a rest from everyone, just trying to reflect and focus on your.

- Yes, Dr. Kirby, what are some a question for my adult panelist?

Signs and symptoms that a teen may be experiencing mental health challenges, catching it early?

- I think things to look for if you're a parent or even a teacher, things like hygiene where you're noticing that the child's hygiene is declining or is poor, school attendance, the child's mood, things like that are things that you should be looking for.

If they seem very isolated, sometimes you even see a pattern of school refusal where the child doesn't want to go to school and their school attendance is very poor.

- Yes.

Dr. Stilwell, follow that, please.

- Absolutely.

I think just to add to that, it's good that, sometimes people think that depression is just a down mood, but it can sometimes show up as like more of an irritable mood in kids as well.

And especially if you're seeing big changes in behaviors from before and after and changes in activities, things that they're usually enjoyed that they're not doing anymore is especially important.

- How do you, staying with you Dr. Stilwell, before I go to Vonnie, diagnose a mental health, a bad day versus a signs of a beginning depression?

- Yeah.

Yeah.

We have a big book of diagnoses that we can give patients.

And part of each disorder is looking for a clinically meaningful impact on their life.

So separate from just having a bad day.

It's when I get involved, it starts to become like bad weeks and bad months and it starts to impact school and impact life relationships, these areas of life, you know, just beyond having just kind of a bad day, if you will.

- Vonnie, would you share a couple of early warning signs for lack of better words?

- Yeah.

You know, one thing that, you know, coming from the lived experience, I'd like to just expand on with the signs and the symptoms is we talk about the signs and the symptoms at every interview all the time on TV.

We really are getting to know what they are, but I feel like we need to go back, dissect why are our kids, are teens experiencing these signs and the symptoms?

And I feel like that's going back to, oftentimes it's a childhood trauma, oftentimes it's pain, pain associated with bullying, heartache, parents divorce.

So I think that's just as important as listing the signs and the symptoms.

So as far as a couple of the, what was the, I got such side check.

- Well, yeah, no, no, just, I guess just staying with that probably from a parental zone, is my child maybe not eating or not listening, or what is the sign or symptom that a, you know, a teen needs help.

- Yeah.

Well, the signs and the symptoms for me and the lived experience in the teens is pain.

I think that that's the number one warning for any parent.

Is your child experiencing pain and how are they exhibiting that pain?

Whether that isn't getting out of bed each day, whether that is isolating themselves, whether that is not eating right.

There's all of those things that can contribute to depression, anxiety.

- Zoey, what are you seeing with your generation?

What are a couple of blatant signs that help might be needed?

- Just sitting here I mean, listening to you guys, it's just like, I'm just seeing, like, I haven't noticed it before, but noticing how so many people are actually like isolating themselves, like not wanting to hang out with people, not wanting to go out with groups of friends or not showing up to school for weeks.

And just not noticing that, a lot more than I thought there is.

- Yes.

Let's start talking obviously treatment, prevention, obviously key here are support groups and more, I'll go back to you Dr. Kirby.

So a parent sees these signs or symptoms.

What's the next action item?

- One of the things that parents can do is take their child in for a visit with a pediatrician and start some initial screening.

And then from that point, the pediatrician can refer out to someone that can help on an outpatient basis.

So some therapy, psychotherapy on an outpatient basis, and maybe even some psychiatry, outpatient psychiatry, some medications may be needed to help stabilize some of the mood disorders too.

So I think checking in with your child's pediatrician is a good first step.

- Dr. Stilwell, I'll throw it to you.

- Absolutely.

I think the world of primary care, and I would just add that it's often, any patients, you know, be the kids or adults is their first line of mental healthcare.

Just because, you know, we're not only in a crisis of mental health needs, but we're also in a crisis of providers to give that care from a psychiatry end.

So pediatricians are often the forefront of that, that care and can give really excellent care too, at the same time.

- Yes, Vonnie, if you can expand into how I Understand helps with perhaps first line of treatments or a first phone call to you.

- Yeah, well, we definitely are not trained psychiatrists doctors.

We definitely refer and have resources.

One of the things I think is really important that happens is that we start normalizing Pine Rest and recognizing that the places that we go for our mental health support, are normal.

Because there's so much fear, and there's a lot of denial that I'm seeing in parents that they don't want to think that their child has a mental health illness, because they don't wanna go to Pine Rest because words like crazy and insane are still being used.

So what I understand, we have funded the first in the country nurse specializing in mental health, in a traditional hospital setting.

And what she does is she has trained over 11,000 Spectrum Health employees and the proper way to talk, I mean, for us that I understand we want to change the conversation, normalize the conversation.

And she's also last year 1100 screenings on children from ages six to 18 for suicidal ideation.

So those are some of the things that we're working on to get this conversation of mental health in the forefront.

- On behalf of Wedgewood, I bring you back Zoey.

I mean, what are the services you have available for teens your age that might be asking for help?

- Like what services do we have to offer?

- Yeah.

Or if you were experiencing challenges, how would Wedgewood help you out?

- Oh, okay.

So Wedgewood has a very empowering group of teens.

And so being a teen and having another person your age help you and inspire is really helpful because then it's not like, oh, well, this adult is saying it.

Every adult's gonna say this, but it's a person your age and it's gonna feel more, it's gonna be closer to home.

So that's really nice to have us like together.

- Yes.

Thank you.

Vonnie, don't you offer teen support groups?

Talk about this.

- It's very important.

And it was just in the CDC article that I talked about earlier about the importance of connecting, and that's what I Understand does.

And so we are starting a new teen support group for after loss suicide, and that's gonna be starting in June.

And it's co-founded with me by a 16-year-old and another trained therapist.

Or we can come together and bring these young people together so they know that they're not alone.

Because sharing our story has so much power and by doing so, it releases our truth, you know, and that in itself is very healing.

So we have support group.

We have, we just had a discussion on self-care and we had, I had a 16-year-old co-host there with me.

And it's all about connecting and finding your tribe and getting others that are your same age that you can share with and share with honestly, and sometimes confidentially.

- Follow up on that, Dr. Stilwell.

- I couldn't agree more.

I think one of the biggest problems with depression and anxiety treatment is that we feel alone with it, separate from being an issue of the right medicine and the right coping skills.

So making sure you're not feeling alone with your illness is just critical.

- Yes.

And obviously this can translate into adults with mental health challenges as well.

I would thank this conversation to boo.

Dr Kirby representing Mary Free Bed, you have a specialty when it comes with pain and talk more about how this equates with mental health here.

- Well, the kids that I see are coming in with a lot of chronic pain disorders.

And so when you really start to then do the evaluation and get to know the child, and some of the stressors that they're encountering, social stressors, those things can contribute or exacerbate the chronic pain as well.

So they can really, you know, perpetuate the pain and exacerbate it.

So it's really good to have a good understanding of what kind of context this child is living in.

Vonnie mentioned the, you know, trauma, things like this, what kind of background does this child have?

What kind of home is this child living in, what is their history with regard to trauma, and socially what are the things that they're struggling with now?

In school, with their parents or even, you know, negotiating things like social media.

- Yes.

Let's turn to social media and your life again, Zoey.

Wow.

It can be used very positively, but can you admit that it can be used negatively for your peers?

- Yeah.

It can.

It can have a really negative effect on your mental health and your well-being.

A couple ways that it can do that is seeing other people, other people's lives and wishing that could be like them or seeing negative comments and letting that get to you.

And then just social media altogether.

It seeing friends, but not actually being with them, I feel like also can have an impact 'cause you're not actually with them and then you are just seeing, just texting them or calling them.

- Yes.

Dr. Kirby, you follow up on that when your head shakes, you get called on.

Yeah.

- I just, I really appreciate you sharing that, Zoey.

I think that's really poignant, you know, everything and Vonnie mentioned this too, it's all relational.

It's all about, you know, what, we're humans, we're relational beings and it's so very important to be able to connect with others.

And for me, I guess I'm old school, but for me still the best way to do that is in person.

- Yes.

Dr. Stilwell.

- Hanging out with your friends.

and being able to socialize with them in person.

Going and doing things and becoming engaged relationally with your peers and your friends.

- And Dr. Stilwell, is that perhaps a therapy mode?

A treatment mode?

- Yeah, no, I can't do anything but agree, Zoey, that's so insightful.

Social media connects us like we've never been connected before, but it's not a really authentic, meaningful connection sometimes as much as like you said, you know, picking up your phone and actually having a conversation with somebody.

So, and yeah, Shelley, absolutely.

Part of certain styles of therapy and, you know, one style isn't right for any one person, but certain styles will encourage patients to do those activating things that make them feel better, like finding that connection and doing the activity to promote wellness.

- Yes.

Zoey, this is gonna be a silly question.

Is bullying still experienced in your peer group?

- It doesn't matter how close you are with friends.

Like, okay, it could be from anyone, but if you're like with friends, there's still gonna be some level of bullying.

Some of it may be just as a joke, but I think that needs to be looked out for and seen like that does have something, even if it's just a joke.

- Yes.

Any experts to respond to that?

- I do have a response.

I think that if we've learned nothing in the midst of this pandemic, it is that, can we all just be kind to each other?

Can we just be kind?

- I agree, but unfortunately that's not reality for some kids.

And you know, I mean, bullying is really about the bully and the pain that they're living with and whatever it is that they're trying to escape.

And a recent conversation that I had with a group of teens is that bullying is still there, it's just different.

It's different in the terms of through social media, but making and creating anonymous Facebook posts, you know, like you don't, you can make your own without a name and you can start bullying somebody with that.

And then the other thing that I notice in our teen group discussion is even almost as bad as bullying, is the social media presence of this group of four friends, all of them were included but one and in other, these teens are seeing their group of friends going out and doing things, but not being included.

- Yes.

How are we doing, and I'm gonna stick with you on this Vonnie, with the media, as far as, I'll start with the maybe positives or negatives.

There's a "Mean Girls" is a movie, but yet there's "Dear Evan Hansen" that's a movie, where are we going with these type of offerings?

Yeah.

- Well, when we look at like these performances, I think it's wonderful, it's great.

We did an event for the "Dear Evan Hansen" movie.

We were able to be at the Broadway Grand Rapids with "Dear Evan Hansen" providing takeaways, you know, and we go back to the social media impact and you really look at "Dear Evan Hansen" is about not telling the truth, but someone being, feeling isolated and then using social media and looking how your life can spin out of control and the effects that that has on you.

But in the end, when we live our truth, and we're able to share that, there's so much of that that sets you free, and I think that one of the biggest takeaways is that we all make mistakes, but how we recognize them, how we deal with them is what's going to define us.

And that's where we need to connect.

So I'm grateful for Broadway to be bringing these kind of productions to our communities because they really do impact.

And then allowing us to come in and other nonprofits to come in and say, "Hey, these are the takeaways."

It is even more impactful.

- Dr. Stilwell, again, grade the media.

And obviously, are we talking more about mental health in these times?

- I think I, you know, I had the opportunity to watch "Dear Evan Hansen" too recently on Broadway Grand Rapids and I was so excited that we're bringing this media to the area.

I think it's also important though, as the adults and in our children's lives to be there and have discussions about what it means and help process these experiences.

'Cause it's wonderful that I think we need to be responsible consumers of media as well and help our kids understand these experiences.

- Zoey, I'll put you on the spot.

Have you seen "Dear Evan Hansen?"

- No, I have not, but by all the hearings that I'm hearing, I should see it now.

- Yes.

Would you recommend that Dr. Kirby?

- I would actually, I saw it this past Sunday, and I grabbed one of Vonnie's stress balls.

That was an offering.

And I was accompanied by my own teenage daughter and I thought that it was, you know, a great production and potentially a springboard for, - [Shelley] Yes.

- Discussion in the community and maybe even discussion about more prevention in terms of mental health prevention, especially for teenagers.

- Yes.

I had a question from a Facebook friend.

How can the mental health community include parents in this discussion, Vonnie?

The mental health community?

You.

- Yes.

Well, we try to do that on a regular basis by bringing the conversations to everyday places.

And a good example of that is, you know, our community support, Meyer, they sell our t-shirts during National Suicide Prevention Awareness Month, Biggby Coffee, we do the Pink Heart Project every September, give a dollar, share your heart with someone else, let them know that they'll be the one.

We are so thrilled that we are Amway Riverbank Run charity partner to bring the conversation of mental health to the forefront and our programs.

You know, my book, "I understand: Pain, Love and Healing After Suicide" is in 52 units of the Michigan Sheriff's Association, 574 advocates have that book as a resource to provide to families after mental health crisis.

And then our new Be the One training program, offer nearly encourage.

We're gonna offer that for free next Thursday.

Our theme for the month is connections.

This is a way for the community to come and connect with us, anybody, a student, a teacher, a therapist, and see what we're doing to bring the conversation and normalizing it, to reduce the stigma and judgment, to make sure that we're referencing mental health as health.

- Dr. Kellen Stilwell, your add to this.

- I think, you know, as reflecting on what Vonnie just said, I think just being open and curious about your kids' experiences and about the things that they're going through, even when it's not a mental health crisis can be really valuable.

And if you're in mental healthcare, stay curious about that space too, you know, be invested in their learning and their growing as they're getting treatment, it's really powerful.

- Dr. Kirby, can we talk prevention?

Can one prevent a mental health crisis with a teen?

- I feel like a mental health crisis can be prevented.

When I think of a mental health crisis on an individual basis, I, you know, that is when the person is getting triaged into inpatient care.

And so I think that can be prevented, by knowing what signs to look for and keeping open lines of communication with your child as a parent, and then as a parent, getting them the help that they need before we reach that level of severity.

So knowing what to look for and how to get your child help is essential.

You would go to maryfreebed.com and you can look under pain psychology, or just under psychology in general, and there are lots of references there to the work that we do and the focus of our work.

- Great.

Vonnie, I need a quick summary and how to find out more about you.

- I, you know, going back to, you know, is suicide preventable?

I go back to 90% of those that die by suicide, have, whether it's diagnosed depression or some form of depression.

Depression is an illness.

So I have questions.

If depression is an illness, then why are all other illnesses treatable, preventable, but you can also die from them?

We die from cancer, we die from the flu.

We die from heartache, heart disease.

Why can't we die from a mental brain health illness?

I kind of look at it as, my husband was one that did everything.

I mean, he ate right, he exercised, he went to the doctor, but yet he still died.

And so I look as my husband died of a terminal illness and I feel like we need to start recognizing that the brain is not perfect and we need to ask questions, why is the brain the only organ in our body that is judged and stigmatized when it fails?

Why do we talk about the act more than we do the illness?

If people were to ask me, after my husband died, how my husband died, if I said he killed himself, that's scary, that's dark.

If I say he committed, he committed a crime.

Suicide was considered a crime up until 1964, that's where the word commit comes in.

But if I were to say he died from depression, we can have such a different conversation and we can bring more attention to the illness rather than the act.

- How do you finish all this conversation, Kellen, if you would.

- Absolutely.

No, I would just echo Vonnie in just saying that it's so important that we learn to talk differently about this experience and it's something that everybody's going through and so important to pay attention to.

- Great.

And we find you at Pine Rest?

- Absolutely.

Find me at pinerests.org.

We also have a toll-free number at 800-678-5500.

And somebody can connect you with services.

- Great.

Gonna spend just over a minute with you Zoey on, I guess your final message on behalf of teens, what do you have for our experts in our community?

How can we help?

- First off all, I just wanna say thank you for everything that you guys have done.

It definitely does help.

And yeah, I mean, it may be scary at first for us, but all the hard work that you guys put into it, it really does help us, and we appreciate it.

- You wanna be a psychiatrist or a nonprofit executive director or a psychologist when you're, you know, when you're old like us?

- I mean, yeah.

- You don't have to say, yeah, you can be whatever you wanna be.

So thank you very much, obviously for the good work that you do.

And of course, so Wedgewood is a awesome place, right?

Zoey?

- Yes, it is.

- Great.

Thank you very much for representing all of you on your words and I guess my final question with a yes or no is, can we beat this mental health crisis?

Dr. Kirby?

- Absolutely.

- Yvonne?

- Yes.

- Yes.

And your answer to that Kellen?

- A 100%.

Yes.

- Dr. Stilwell, great.

Thank you all for this conversation on a very important and serious topic when it comes to mental health and our teens.

Let's talk about it because May is Mental Health Awareness Month.

Thank you all.

And Zoey, go get 'em.

Study hard.

And as always, thank you for watching this edition of Family Health Matters.

Tune in to WGVUnews.org for more information on our programming.

Thanks for joining us.

(gentle upbeat music)