HELLO AND WELCOME TO THE BOOKMARK I'M CHRISTINE BROWN YOUR HOST TODAY.

MY GUEST IS MICHAEL SMITH COAUTHOR OF HERPING TEXAS.

THE QUEST FOR REPTILES AND AMPHIBIANS THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE TODAY.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

SO I WANT TO START BY ASKING YOU TO DEFINE THE TERM HERPING BECAUSE IT MAY NOT BE FAMILIAR TO EARN OUR AUDIENCE THAT DO THAT.

WELL HERPING IS LIKE BIRDING EXCEPT IT'S WITH REPTILES AND AMPHIBIANS INSTEAD OF BIRDS SO HER ARE REPTILES AND AMPHIBIANS AND HERPING IS SORT OF USUALLY IT'S GETTING OUT IN THE FIELD AND LOOKING FOR THEM.

KIND OF LIKE BIRDERS WILL GO OUT LOOKING FOR BIRDS IT'S LIKE AN INFORMAL STUDY OF HERPETOLOGY WHICH IS THE SCIENCE OF REPTILES AND AMPHIBIANS SO TELL US ABOUT THE BOOK AND HOW DID YOU AND YOUR COAUTHOR I DIDN'T START AS A BOOK.

SO HOW DID.

HOW DID WE GET TO THIS POINT WELL SO THE BOOK IS KIND OF THE STORY OF OUR TRAVELS AROUND THE STATE OF TEXAS WE WE WENT TO THE 10 DIFFERENT ECO REGIONS OF TEXAS BASICALLY PLACES THROUGHOUT THE STATE AND THE BOOK CAME ABOUT BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN INVOLVED THROUGH EITHER HOSPITAL LOGICAL SOCIETIES ARE NATURE CENTERS OR OTHERWISE DOING EDUCATION THINGS FOR SOME TIME AND REALLY WANTED TO WRITE ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE WE WOULD HAVE TRAVELED ANYWAY.

I MEAN THIS WAS A BLAST.

SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE WOULD HAVE DONE THIS JUST FOR THE BOOK.

WE WOULD HAVE DONE THE TRAVELING.

BUT WE ALSO WANTED TO WRITE ABOUT IT AND SHARE THE INFORMATION AND CHEER HOW COOL IT IS TO GET UP TO THESE PLACES IN TEXAS HOW DID YOU GET INTERESTED AND REPTILES AND AMPHIBIANS WELL SO IT STARTED IN ABOUT 1960 ONE OR SO IN WE'RE LIVING IN COLORADO AT THE TIME OF THE NEIGHBOR GIRL CAME OVER AND SAID HEY YOU WANT TO GO SNEAK AWNING I HAD NO IDEA WHAT IN THE WORLD SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT.

BUT AT ANY RATE OF STATE INTERESTED IN THIS FOR OVER THE YEARS.

THERE WAS A PARTICULAR PERIOD OF TIME IN THE 60S LATER 60S WHEN WE WERE IN TEXAS AND I HUNG OUT WITH THE WHAT WAS THEN THE FOUR WITH CHILDREN'S MUSEUM.

THEY TAUGHT ME A HUGE AMOUNT WAS MOST VALUABLE STUFF I'VE EVER BEEN INVOLVED IN A LOT OF FIELD EXPERIENCE AS WELL AS EXPERIENCE IN THE LAB AND WITH PRESERVE SPECIMENS AND THAT KIND OF STUFF SO IT'S JUST STUCK WITH ME AS A SECOND CAREER IT'S NOT MY ACTUAL LIVING BUT IT'S THE SECOND CAREER AND SO YOU TALKED ABOUT HOW HERPING IS SIMILAR TO BIRDING ISN'T SET UP SIMILAR OR OTHER SIMILAR GOALS LIKE.

IS THERE A BIG YEAR FOR HER BEING OR DO YOU HAVE LIKE LIFE LISTS OF THINGS THAT YOU WANT TO SEE PEOPLE DO PEOPLE EITHER THEY VERY OFTEN WILL EITHER KEEP A FORMAL LIFE LIST.

OR MAYBE JUST KIND OF INFORMALLY THANK GOD WE I MEAN WE'RE NERDS AND WE SIT AROUND READING FIELD GUIDES AND MEMORIZING ALL THE STUFF AND SO YOU KNOW WE MAY FIND SOMETHING AND SAY OH MY GOSH THIS IS MY FIRST TIME TO SEE IT AND HAVE KIND OF A SENSE OF A LIFE LIST.

THERE'S NOT REALLY A BIG YEAR FOR HERPING LIKE CONVERTING IT'S NOT AS WELL ORGANIZED AND NOT NOT AS WELL KNOWN OR.

BUT BUT BUT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE INTO IT ARE PRETTY DEDICATED NERDS SO YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU DID A LOT OF TRAVELING HOW HOW MUCH OF THE STATE?

DID YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'VE GOT A GOOD SENSE OF ALL ALL CORNERS OF TEXAS.

I THINK SO.

ALTHOUGH I'M CERTAINLY WILLING TO GO DO IT AGAIN AND HIT THE OTHER PLACES.

SO THAT THOSE ECO REGIONS I WAS MENTIONING RANGE FROM THE TRANSFER GOES OUT IN WEST TEXAS AROUND THE BIG BEND AREA UP IN THE PANHANDLE ACROSS NORTH TEXAS AS YOU HAVE THE PLANES AND THE CROSS TIMBERS AND PRAIRIES AND SO ON.

EAST TEXAS YOU'VE GOT THE PINEY WOODS.

THOSE AREAS IN SOUTH TEXAS YOU HAVE THE SOUTH TEXAS PLANES WE HIT PLACES PLACES.

QUITE OFTEN THEY WERE EITHER NATIONAL PARKS OR PRESERVES OR OR IN SOME CASES PRIVATE LAND IN EACH OF THOSE PLACES SO WE'VE GOT A PRETTY GOOD SENSE OF THE STATE OVERALL AND I'M GUESSING THAT THERE.

THEY CAN BE DOWN ALL OVER THE STATE BUT YOU'RE GOING TO FIND DIFFERENT THINGS AS YOU MOVE THERE ARE SOME RIGHT THERE'S SOME SPECIES THAT ARE VERY WIDESPREAD AND CUT ACROSS A LOT OF THESE HERE IS ONE OF THEM BEING THE WHAT'S CALLED NOW CALLED THE WESTERN RAT SNAKE OR WAS CALLED THE TEXAS RANCH SNAKE THAT CUTS CUTS ACROSS A WIDE AREA OF TEXAS THERE'S OTHERS THAT ARE MORE LIKE SPECIALISTS.

THE FOR EXAMPLE DOWN AND BASTROP IN THAT AREA BETWEEN THEIR IN HOUSTON IS THE HOUSTON TOAD WHICH IS A SPECIALIST THAT'S NOT VERY WIDESPREAD OTHER ANIMALS THAT ARE YOU KNOW THAT ARE MORE SPECIFIC TO SOME OF THOSE REGIONS I WANT TO ASK YOU TO TELL US ABOUT YOUR MOST MEMORABLE ENCOUNTER WELL THERE'S A LOT OF THERE'S A LOT OF CANDIDATES FOR THAT THAT'S HARD TO HARD TO THINK OF WHAT'S MOST MEMORABLE BUT ONE OF THEM.

GOT A FIGURE IN THERE WAS IN SOUTH TEXAS.

CLINTON ON THE CO-AUTHOR AND ON A CLINTON I HAD HAD TRAVELED TO NEAR HEBRON VILLE WHICH IS DOWN IN THE THORN SCRUB BELOW SAN ANTONIO.

AND THERE'S A LOT OF REALLY COOL ANIMALS DOWN THERE WE HAD STOPPED AT A BASICALLY A ROADSIDE PULL OVER TO LOOK FOR LIZARDS AND THINGS SO IT'S KIND OF AN ARID CACTUS AND MOSQUITO TREE KIND OF AREA AND WE WERE LOOKING AROUND FOR LIZARDS AND WE HEARD A COMMOTION UNDER SOME BRUSH AND LOOKED AND THERE WAS THERE WAS AN INDIGO SNAKE WHICH IS FOR US THAT'S UP ONE OF THOSE SORT OF HOLY GRAIL KIND OF ANIMALS.

THOSE ARE THEY JUST TO GET INTO SOUTH TEXAS THEY'RE MORE COMMON IN MEXICO AND INTERESTS CENTRAL AMERICA ARE TEXAS INDIGO SNAKE IS ABOUT USUALLY SIX OR SEVEN FEET LONG.

THEY CAN GET UP TOWARDS NINE FEET IT'S THE BIG ARE OUR BIGGEST SNAKE AND IT'S EITHER BLACK OR KIND OF BLUISH BLACK WITHIN IRIDESCENCE THAT'S RESPONSIBLE FOR THE NAME INDIGO OR SOMETIMES SOMEWHAT BROWN BUT IT'S A GREAT BIG ALL HANDSOME SNAKE THAT HAS A REPUTATION FOR EATING RATTLESNAKES AND OTHER SNAKES.

THEY DON'T JUST SEEK OUT RATTLESNAKES AID FROGS AND RATS AND KIND OF WHATEVER THEY CAN COME ACROSS.

BUT THEY'RE GOOD AT EATING RATTLESNAKES IN THIS PARTICULAR TIME THIS INDIGO SNAKE UNDER THE BRUSH HERE WAS WORKING ON A WESTERN DIAMONDBACK RATTLESNAKE THAT HAD GOTTEN TANGLED UP IN SOME OF THE BRUSH AND WOULDN'T COME FREE SAID THE INDIGO WAS PULLING ON THE RATTLESNAKE PULLING ON THE RATTLESNAKE NOW KEEP IN MIND CLINTON ARE BACK HOPEFULLY A RESPECTFUL DISTANCE AND NOT WANTING TO DISTURB THE SNAKE BUT VERY MUCH WATCH WANTING TO WATCH WHAT HAPPENS AND SO WE WATCHING THE INDIGO PULL ON THIS RATTLESNAKE AND PULL IN THIS RATTLESNAKE AND IT COULD NOT GET IT FREE AFTER A COUPLE OF MINUTES OF THIS WHAT WE DECIDED WAS WE ARE LIABLE TO DISTURB OR FRIGHTEN THE INDIGO ENOUGH TO INTERFERE WITH ITS MEAL.

SO WE PULLED BACK AND WALKED AROUND A LITTLE BIT AND THEN WE CAME BACK IN A FEW MINUTES TO CHECK ON IT AND IT WAS STILL WORKING ON THIS POOR RATTLESNAKE WHICH OF COURSE BY THAT POINT WAS DEAD INDIGO HAS VERY STRONG JOB CHEWING AND CHEWING AND PULLING AND PULLING AND EVENTUALLY THEY DON'T USUALLY DO THIS USUALLY SWALLOW THEIR PREY HOLE BUT WHAT IT EVENTUALLY DID IS MANAGED TO PULL THE RATTLESNAKES HEAD OFF AND THEN AT THAT POINT TOOK OFF THROUGH THE BRUSH TO GET AWAY FROM US BECAUSE HE WAS SORT OF LIKE THESE PEOPLE ARE HERE I'M NOT SURE THAT I'M COOL WITH THAT AND SO HE GOT WHAT HE COULD AND TOOK OFF THROUGH THE BRUSH.

IT WAS SO MEMORABLE BECAUSE BEING ABLE TO WATCH THESE ANIMALS IN THEIR NATURAL STATE DOING WHAT THEY DO IS OFTEN REALLY COOL STUFF AND YOU CAN'T BEAT IT WITHIN INDIGO SNAKE SO YOU MENTIONED RATTLESNAKES AND I DON'T THINK I HAVE TO MENTION TO OUR AUDIENCE THAT SOME OF THESE REPTILES THAT YOU MAY ENCOUNTER CAN BE DANGEROUS CAN BE INVENTIVENESS CAN HAVE BIG TEETH DO YOU HAVE ANY DID YOU HAVE ANY HOW YOU HAD CLOSE CALLS WITH ANY DANGEROUS.

WE HAD A FEW IN ONE OF THE ONE OF THE THINGS WE TRY TO DO THAT.

SEE THE THING IS THAT A LOT OF THESE ANIMALS LOT OF THESE RATTLESNAKES AND OTHER VENOMOUS SNAKES ARE NOT PARTICULARLY AGGRESSIVE AND AS YOU GET VERY EXPERIENCED SAID AT THE THING YOU'VE GOT TO WATCH OUT.

MAKE SURE YOU DON'T GET TOO CLOSE BUT THE CLOSE CALL THAT REALLY STICKS OUT IN MY HEAD WAS DOWN OUT IN THE BIG BEND AREA ACTUALLY A LITTLE PAST THE BIG BEND NEAR THE DIABLO MOUNTAINS.

WE WERE IS CLINTON AGAIN WE WERE DRIVING SOUTH ON THE HIGHWAY WAS SAW THIS DIAMONDBACK RATTLESNAKE ON THE ROAD WE STOPPED TO TAKE A PHOTO ALTHOUGH THERE ARE COMMON AND WE HAVE PLENTY OF PHOTOS OF DIAMONDBACKS BUT STOPPED TO HAVE A LOOK AT IT AND MAINLY TO GET IT OFF THE ROAD SO DIDN'T GET RUN OVER.

SO I WALKED UP TO THE SNAKE AND FIRST TOOK A PICTURE TO HAVE IT NOW IT WAS FLATTENED ON THE ROAD THIS IS A BIG FOUR FOOT OR SO KIND OF LIGHT COLORED BIG ANIMAL.

AND HE'S FLATTENED OUT AND SITTING VERY VERY STILL AND THAT SOMETIMES WHAT THAT MEANS IS THE SNAKE HAS STRESSED.

HE KNOWS YOU'RE THERE.

HE'S HOPING YOU DON'T SEE HIM BUT HE'S KIND OF STRESSED I TOOK A COUPLE OF PICTURES THEN WALK BACK TO THE CAR TO GET A SNAKE HOOK TO MOVE THEM OFF THE ROAD AND GOT CLINT SOOK WHICH WAS TOO SMALL TO SHORT REALLY AND I WASN'T READING THE SNAKES CUES WELL ENOUGH WHEN I TOUCHED THE SNAKE TO COOK IT AND HELP ME GET OFF THE ROAD BEFORE IT GOT RUN OVER AT THAT POINT IT SORT OF PAST THE RED LINE WITH THE SNAKE BETWEEN I'M GOING TO FREEZE AND HOPE FOR THE BEST TOO I'VE GOT TO DEFEND MYSELF AND SO IT WAS STRIKING AND REALLY COME AND TOWARD ME FOR A BRIEF TIME AND I WAS BACK PEDALING AS QUICKLY AS I COULD BUT THE SNAKE WAS STRIKING CLOSE ENOUGH THAT I MEAN I CAN'T RUN BACKWARDS AND I WANT TO BE CAREFUL AND FALL SO I'M JUST SORT OF MOVING BACK AS QUICKLY AS I COULD FOR A FEW FEET IN THE SNAKE KEPT STRIKING HAD BEEN BASICALLY BEEN STRESSED BEYOND ITS TOLERANCE AND WAS TRYING TO DEFEND ITSELF.

ONCE I GOT OUT OF THE WAY AND KIND OF REDIRECTED THE SNAKE IT TOOK OFF ON THE ROAD IT WASN'T REALLY CHASING THE ARE TRYING TO HURT ME.

IT JUST WANTED TO DEFEND ITSELF AND GET OUT OF THERE SO AND I WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THAT BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE ANIMALS THEY'RE NOT THEY'RE NOT TRYING TO HURT ANYONE.

JUST A FEAR BASED RESPONSE WORDS OF SURVIVAL BASED RESPONSES ARE JUST TRYING TO PROTECT THEMSELVES THAT'S RIGHT.

THAT'S RIGHT.

AND THAT'S THAT'S WHAT CAN SUCKER US INTO WHEN WE'RE TAKING PHOTOS OF MAY BE GETTING TOO CLOSE IF WE'RE NOT CAREFUL BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO TRY TO COME AFTER YOU OR BE AGGRESSIVE WHAT THEY WILL DO IS DEFEND THEMSELVES IF YOU FORCE THEM TO BUT FOR EXAMPLE HERE'S HERE'S ONE QUICK EXAMPLE THE COTTON MOUTH IS A SNAKE WITH A TERRIBLE REPUTATION PEOPLE TELL STORIES ALL THE TIME ABOUT COTTONMOUTHS CHASING PEOPLE ARE FALLING INTO THE BOAT OR SKIERS FALLING INTO A NEST OF THEM.

THESE ARE ALL FOLKTALES THAT HAVE ARISEN FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER BUT THEY REALLY DON'T REPRESENT WHAT COP MOUTHS ARE LIKE AND I HAVE PLENTY OF FIELD EXPERIENCE WITH COTTONMOUTH SO IF SOMEONE WHO'S WATCHING HAS HAD A SCARY EXPERIENCE WOULD COTTONMOUTH I'M NOT I'M NOT TELLING YOU THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN WHAT I'M TELLING YOU THIS YEAR.

WHAT I UNDERSTAND ABOUT THEM IS THAT THEY WILL GAPED THEIR MOUTHS OPEN AND SHOW THAT COTTONMOUTH AS A KIND OF A WARNING.

THEY WILL TRY TO GET AWAY.

THEY'LL RATTLED THEIR TAILS SOMETIMES WHEN THEY TRIED TO GET AWAY.

THEY'RE NOT REALLY LOOK AND WHICH WAY THEY'RE GOING SO THEY'LL MAY COME TOWARD A PERSON WHICH MIGHT SEEM LIKE CHASING BUT YOU GET OUT OF THE WAY THEY JUST KEEP ON GOING SO THEY DON'T REALLY CHASE PEOPLE SO ANYWAY A LOT OF THESE ANIMALS ARE REALLY IF YOU.

YOU NEED THE EXPERIENCE YOU NEED PLENTY OF TRAINING AND EXPERIENCE TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU KNOW DO ANYTHING.

ACCIDENTLY FOOLISH OR WHATEVER BUT IF YOU DO THAT YOU CAN SAY QUITE SAFE THERE'S ANOTHER STORY IN THE BOOK THAT I HAVE TO ASK YOU TO TALK ABOUT WHICH IS ABOUT THE MOM AND BABY ALLIGATORS YES THAT WAS A GREAT EXPERIENCE.

WE WERE DOWN ON THE GULF COAST NEAR KIND OF NEAR GALVESTON BRAZORIA NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE AND WE THAT AREA WE'VE SPENT REALLY THE WEEK ON THE COAST THERE AND WE'D SEEN ALLIGATORS ANAHUAC REFUGE AND FURTHER DOWN AND THIS PARTICULAR TIME WE'RE WALKING ALONG THE BOARDWALK THROUGH THE MARTIAN SO YOU'RE WHAT WE ARE WALKING THROUGH IS KIND OF STANDS OF READS INTERSPERSED WITH WATER AND SO WE KIND OF CAME AROUND SOME READS AND SAW THIS BIG ALLIGATOR ABOUT SEVEN FEET LONG.

RIGHT BY THE BOARDWALK AND SO WE ARE GOING TO BE REALLY CAREFUL TO NOT OR OUR FIRST THOUGHT WAS NOT WE'RE IN TROUBLE.

THE FIRST THOUGHT WAS HOW CAN WE GET SOME PHOTOS BEFORE SPEAKING THIS GATOR AND HAVING HER LEAVE WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY BECAUSE THERE'S PLENTY OF MURDERS THAT GO ON THE TRAIL IN THIS ALLIGATORS VERY USED TO PEOPLE.

SO SHE WASN'T GOING ANYWHERE EVEN AS WE WALKED UP PRETTY CLOSE ONLY GOT CLOSER WE DISCOVERED THAT THERE WERE SOME BABIES IN THE REEDS JUST SIX OR SEVEN FEET AWAY FROM MAMA AND SO THIS IS EVEN MORE OF A WONDERFUL OBSERVATION OPPORTUNITY AND A CHANCE TO GET SOME PHOTOS SO WE DID PUT ON THE LONG LIVES.

SO IT'S NOT LIKELY HE WENT RIGHT UP THE THING ABOUT ALLIGATORS IS THAT THEY CAN BE DEFENSIVE OF THEIR YOUNG.

SO IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA TO GO UP ON BABY ALLIGATORS MESSING WITH HIM BECAUSE MAMAS HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO CHARGE AT PEOPLE THAT DO THAT.

SO WE WERE REALLY WATCHING HER CAREFULLY AND REALLY BEING CAREFUL TO GET PHOTOS BUT NOT GET TOO CLOSE TO THE BABIES SHE WAS JUST SHE STAYED THERE AND WE WATCHED FOR THINGS LIKE IF SHE BEGAN TO HISS OR MOVE AROUND THAT WOULD BE S THAT WOULD BE A SUGGESTION THAT SHE'S GETTING PRETTY STRESSED AND THAT WE NEEDED TO GET OUT OF THERE BACKUP OR WHATEVER AND WE WATCHED FOR THAT CAREFULLY.

BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN SO WE TOOK PHOTOS AND THEN WE WALKED ONTO ANOTHER PART OF THE MARSH LOOKED AROUND AND AS WE CAME BACK.

WE WE WE SAW THE MAMA HAD GONE 10 OR 12 FEET AWAY DIFFERENT LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT PART OF THE MARCH THE BABIES ARE STILL THERE.

SO CLINT DECIDED TO TAKE A COUPLE OF MORE PHOTOS AND AS CLINT WAS GETTING A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO THE BABIES MOM DID WAS SHE SANK BELOW THE SURFACE AND I MEAN WE KNEW WHAT WAS HAPPENING.

IT'S NOT LIKE IT WAS A SURPRISE BUT SHE REAPPEARED RIGHT OVER BY US CAME BACK UP AND IT WAS JUST SORT OF LIKE I'M WATCHING EXACTLY SHE NEVER WAS AGGRESSIVE BUT ALWAYS THERE.

KIND OF WATCHFULLY AND PROTECTIVELY AND WE MADE SURE TO NOT CROSS THE LINE AND TRIGGER THAT SO I'M GLAD THIS STORY AND THEN THOSE A PREVIOUS STORIES YOU'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT UNDERSTANDING BE THE BODY LANGUAGE OR THE BEHAVIOUR OF THESE ANIMALS IF PEOPLE WANT TO GET STARTED.

HOW CAN THEY ASIDE FROM READING THE BOOK WHICH I RECOMMEND EVERYBODY HOW CAN THEY GET STARTED.

HOW CAN THEY LEARN ALL THESE THINGS SO THAT THEY CAN BE PREPARED WHEN THEY'RE OUT IN THE FIELD RIGHT.

RIGHT.

AND THAT'S I'M HERE TO RECRUIT PEOPLE IF THEY IF THEY ARE INTERESTED AT ALL.

I WOULD LOVE FOR THAT TO HAPPEN IN THE WAY TO DO IT IS PARTLY THROUGH READING NOT JUST HOURS BUT GET GET YOURSELF A GOOD FIELD GUIDE LEARN TO RECOGNIZE HIM.

I GUESS STEP ONE IS MAKING SURE THAT YOU CAN RECOGNIZE STUFF THAT YOU ENCOUNTER SO THAT BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WOULD DO WITH A BULL SNAKE IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU WOULD DO WITH THE DIAMONDBACKS RATTLESNAKE OR AT LEAST HOW CLOSE YOU MIGHT GET?

I MEAN YOU CAN WATCH BOTH AND YOU'RE FINE FROM US.

YOU KNOW A GOOD DISTANCE BUT SO SO FIELD GUIDE SOME BOOKS ARE ONE THING BUT I REALLY WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO SEE IF YOU CAN FIND A LOCAL EITHER A LOGICAL SOCIETY AND THESE ARE USUALLY INFORMAL ORGANIZATIONS THAT MAY BE HOSTED BY THE UNIVERSITY OR NATURE CENTERS SOMEPLACE LIKE THAT.

AND YOU CAN GET SOME MENTOR MENTORING THROUGH THROUGH THAT SORT OF THING.

NOW I MENTIONED EARLIER THAT MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE WITH THE MUSEUM IN FORT WORTH AND IF THERE'S A MUSEUM PROGRAM OR NATURE SENATOR PROGRAM.

I REALLY RECOMMEND THOSE TWO BECAUSE THOSE COULD GET YOU.

HANDS ON.

REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE AND TRAINING IN RECOGNIZING THESE ANIMALS AND NO ONE KIND OF HOW TO LOOK FOR THEM SAFELY SO ALL THOSE KINDS OF THINGS WOULD BE REALLY GOOD EITHER EITHER PROGRAMS WITH NATURE SENATORS AND MUSEUMS AS WELL AS HERB SOCIETIES AND JUST FINDING SOMEBODY OR THEY'RE GOOD PLACES AROUND THIS AREA TO GO HERPING YOU KNOW THERE THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PLACES RELATIVELY CLOSE.

I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH IMMEDIATELY AT COLLEGE STATION BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT IF I WAS LIVING HERE I'D BE GOING OVER TO THE BIG THICKET EVERY POSSIBLE CHANCE I COULDN'T BECAUSE REALLY JUST IF YOU GO EAST FROM HERE.

AND THROUGH LIVINGSTON AND FURTHER EAST YOU GET TO AN AREA IN KIND OF THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE PINEY WOODS THAT'S JUST A REMARKABLE AREA THAT I'VE I'VE BEEN THERE.

HALF A DOZEN OR MORE TIMES.

AND I WANT TO KEEP GOING.

SO THAT'S ONE PLACE TO CONSIDER BUT EVEN CLOSER IN THERE'S A COUPLE OF NATIONAL FORESTS PRETTY CLOSE BY AROUND HUNTSVILLE AND SO ON AND THOSE ARE GREAT PLACES TO WALK AROUND AND LOOK FOR THINGS REALLY WELL AND OF COURSE I DON'T I DON'T WANT TO MISS BASTROP YOU KNOW THE STATE PARK.

THERE IS.

THAT WOULD BE A WONDERFUL PLACE TO GO.

IF YOU GO OVER TO AUSTIN VERY MUCH THE GREENBELT IS A GOOD PLACE TO WALK AROUND THE BARTON CREEK GREENBELT THERE'S ACTUALLY SEVERAL PLACES I THINK YOU CAN WALK AROUND IN AUSTIN BUT THE GREENBELT THERE IS THE ONE I'M FAMILIAR WITH.

AND AS WE TALK ABOUT IN THE A CHAPTER IN THE BOOK A COUPLE OF REMARKABLY WONDERFUL BEASTIES THERE.

ONE OF THEM BEING THE EASTERN BLACK NICK CARTER SNAKE AND THEN THE OTHER THAN BEING THE TEXAS ALLIGATOR LIZARD THAT IF YOU WATCH CAREFULLY.

YOU MIGHT GET A LOOK AT.

WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO LEAVE THEM THERE FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO SEE YOU DON'T TEND DON'T TAKE THEM HOME BUT BOY THERE ARE AMAZING THINGS TO LOOK AT NORTH OF HERE.

AGAIN NOT REAL CLOSE BY.

BUT IF YOU LOOK FOR THE GUSTS ANGLING WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT AREA WHICH IS KIND OF NEAR PALESTINE THAT'S ANOTHER WONDERFUL PLACE I'VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME IT CUT SINGLING AS IT BECAUSE IT'S A WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT AREA YOU WOULD NEED A HUNTING LICENSE AND PASSED TO BE ABLE TO GET IN ANY KIND OF WATCH THE DATES TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE NOT HAVING A HUNT WHERE THEY CLOSED THE PLACE.

WANT TO GO WELL THEY EITHER MIGHT NOT LIKE YOU ENTER YOUR MIND AND BE DODGING BULLETS BUT THE MOST DODGING BULLETS THE MOST DANGEROUS THING WE WANT TO MAKE CLEAR THAT THIS IS TAXES THERE'S A LOT OF PRIVATE PROPERTIES TO STICK THAT PRESERVES AND THE PARKS.

AS THE PLACES YOU'RE ALLOWED TO GO.

YES ABSOLUTELY ABSOLUTELY.

WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET ON PRIVATE PROPERTY WE ONLY DO THAT IF WE TALK WITH THE OWNER AND WE'RE EXPLICITLY GIVEN PERMISSION PRIVATE PROPERTY IS GREAT TO GET ON A GREAT OPPORTUNITIES BUT PLEASE DON'T JUMP FENCES DON'T DON'T TRESPASS BECAUSE YES YOU COULD GET INTO A LOT OF TROUBLE SO I DON'T DO THAT.

SO THIS THIS AREA IS AN ECO REGION CALLED THE POST HOPES HAVANA IT HISTORICALLY WOULD HAVE BEEN GRASSLANDS AND SCATTERED TREASON AND KIND OF BROKEN UP WOODLANDS MOST OF ITS IT'S EITHER GROWN UP INTO MORE THICK WOODLANDS NOW OR DEVELOPED INTO FARM LAND OR OR BECOME CITIES AND TOWNS BUT THERE'S A LOT OF COOL STUFF IN THIS ECO REGION INCLUDING EASTERN COACH WHIPS WHICH IS THERE A LONG SLENDER MOSTLY BLACK OR AT LEAST THE FIRST HALF OF THE SNAKE AS BLACK THERE.

TO ME THERE LIKE HAWKS OR EAGLES THERE.

CREW CRUZ AROUND THROUGH THE GRASSLANDS DURING THE DAY VERY VISUAL THEY LOOK LIKE THEY'RE REALLY SMART CRITTERS AND THEY'RE GREAT.

GREAT TO WATCH THE OTHER THING THAT YOU MIGHT RUN ACROSS AS A BOX TURTLE WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT'S DISAPPEARING FROM MANY PARTS OF TEXAS AND IF YOU GOT TO SEE ONE THAT'S THAT'S A REAL TREAT A REAL TREAT TOO NOW YOU HAVE BROUGHT A SPECIAL GUEST WITH YOU.

I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU TO BRING HER OUT.

SURE THAT WE CAN INTRODUCE HER TO OUR AUDIENCE.

OK.

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A HARMLESS RELATIVELY COMMON SNAKE ACROSS A GOOD BIT OF TEXAS.

IT'S CALLED THE GREAT PLAINS RAT SNAKE AND SHE'S A LITTLE WIGGLY BUT COMPLETELY HARMLESS SO MOST OF THEM LOOK ABOUT LIKE SHE DOES THAT IS THEY HAVE THESE KIND OF BROWN OR ALMOST A LITTLE BIT OLIVE BLOTCHES DOWN THE BACK.

THEY HAVE A PARTICULARLY CHARACTERISTIC PATTERN ON THE HEAD.

IF YOU IF YOU GET AND CLOSER TO THE HEAD.

YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE'S A KIND OF A SPEARPOINT DESIGN THAT IS THERE'S TWO BLOTCHES OR LINES THAT COME TOGETHER BETWEEN THE EYES IN A ALMOST APPOINTED KIND OF FASHION.

SEE IF I CAN GET HER A LITTLE BIT.

YOU'LL NOTICE THAT SHE HAS BIG ROUND EYES AND PART OF THAT IS AN ADAPTATION FOR NIGHT VISION THESE THESE GUYS ARE NOCTURNAL THROUGH MUCH OF THE YEAR THEY LIVE ON IN GRASSLANDS AND OPEN WOODLANDS AND KIND OF HILLSIDES THAT'S THEIR PREFERRED HABITAT AND THEY EAT RATS AND MICE SMALL RATS AND MICE THIS SNAKE BY THE WAY IS ABOUT THREE FEET LONG BUT SHE COULD PUT ON ANOTHER FOOT OR SO THEY DO GET SOMEWHAT BIGGER THAN HER BUT SHE SAYS SHE IS AN ADULT.

THEY THEY HUNT FOOD AT NIGHT AND CONSTRICTED.

THAT IS IF SHE FINDS A MOUSE SHE WOULD GRAB IT WRAP AROUND IT AND WITH CONSTRICTION WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT THEY IT'S NOT THAT THEY JUST SUFFOCATE THE ANIMALS ACTUALLY ABOUT US ABOUT HIS HUMANE AS YOU COULD IMAGINE FOR.

I MEAN I'M FROM THE MOUSE US PERSPECTIVE IT'S PROBABLY GETS NO JOKE BUT BUT IT IS PRETTY QUICK BECAUSE WHAT THEY DO IS NOT ONLY STOPPED BREATHING BECAUSE THEY'RE VERY STRONG THEY ALSO SHUT DOWN THE CIRCULATION SO THAT REALLY IT'S CIRCULATORY FAILURE THAT PROBABLY DOES THE MOUSE IN QUICKER THAN NOT BEING ABLE TO BREATHE THEN THEY SWALLOW.

AND OF COURSE WHAT YOU KNOW YOU'VE GOT NO HANDS NO ARMS.

WELL YOU HAVE TO DO IS YOU HAVE TO SWALLOW THAT WHOLE SO IT'S SORT OF LIKE YOUR THANKSGIVING TURKEY EATING IT WITH NO HANDS WITH AND DOING AT HALL AND IF THERE MAY NOT BE TIME THE EXPLANATION ISN'T ISN'T THAT THEY DISLOCATE THEIR JAWS THEY HAVE IS AN ARRANGEMENT OF BONES THAT ALLOWS THE DRONES TO OPEN PRETTY WIDE AND AT THE BOTTOM.

THE BOTTOM JAW IS CONNECTED BY LIGAMENT SO IT CAN STRETCH QUITE A BIT AND THE TUBE.

TWO HALVES OF THE HEAD.

BASICALLY ADVANCE OVER THE MOUSE HEADFIRST FIRST ONE SIDE REACHES FORWARD PULLS THE POLLS THE MOUSE AND FURTHER THAN THE OTHER SIDE REACHES FORWARD ESSENTIALLY PULLS THE MOUSE AND AND THEY EAT THIS GREAT BIG OATMEAL WHICH WILL LAST THEM FOR.

PROBABLY SEVERAL WEEKS.

WOW.

SHE'S VERY ACTIVE SHE'S PRETTY ACTIVE SHE'D LIKE TO FIND A HIDING PLACE THESE YOU KNOW EVEN EVEN A NICE GENERAL SNAKE LIKE THIS IS NOT REALLY LOVE HANGING OUT WITH PEOPLE.

SHE'D REALLY LIKE TO FIND A NICE QUIET PLACE AND HIDE.

SO THAT'S WHAT SHE'S DOING.

SO WE'VE GOT JUST ABOUT THREE MINUTES LEFT I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU WHAT DO YOU WANT TO TAKE AWAY FROM THIS LOOK TO BE WELL WE'D LOVE TO GET PEOPLE.

MORE ENGAGED WITH THE WORLD AROUND WITH THE NATURAL WORLD AROUND THEM.

THERE'S LESS AND LESS OF THAT AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT CLINTON ARE BOTH OR ARE CONCERNED ABOUT AND THERE'S PARTLY THAT THIS KIND OF THING IS A BLAST I MEAN IT CAN BE AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF FUN BUT ALSO WE'D LIKE PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THE ANIMALS AND THE PLACES.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE PUT IN THE BOOK WAS THAT WE'VE FALLEN IN LOVE WITH COUNTLESS WETLANDS FORESTS AND FIELDS IN THE STATE AND WE'RE HOPELESSLY CAUGHT UP IN THE DESIRE TO SEE THEM SURVIVE UNSPOILED INTO THE NEXT CENTURY NOT ALL OF THEM WILL BUT THOSE PLACES THAT DO CONTINUE.

WILL DO SO BECAUSE PEOPLE KNEW THEM AND CARED ENOUGH TO PROTECT THEM.

SO WE TRY TO GET PEOPLE ENGAGED ENOUGH TO KNOW ABOUT THEM AND CARE ENOUGH TO PROTECT THEM AND I WOULD IMAGINE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT MAY BE EASY TO GET KIDS INVOLVED AND BECAUSE THEY HAVE A NATURAL MAYBE INTEREST AND LESS FEAR THAN SOME ADULTS MIGHT HAVE ABSOLUTELY ABSOLUTELY IT IS USUALLY EASY TO GET KIDS INVOLVED IN THIS.

THEY ALL WANT TO SEE IT UP CLOSE AND EVEN IF THEY'RE INITIALLY FRIGHTENED USUALLY AFTER A MINUTE.

IF YOU DON'T TRY TO SCARE THEM WITH IT IF YOU SAY WELL IF YOU WANT TO JUST TOUCH LIKE THIS PART OF THE SNAKE YOU CAN DO THAT.

AND USUALLY KIDS ARE READY TO DO THAT AND THEN THEY'RE READY TO GO FIND THEM.

SO YEAH WITH ADULT SUPERVISION WITH ADULT SUPERVISION.

WE DON'T SEND THE KIDS OUT TO JUST GO SNAKE COUNTING ON THEIR OWN WELL THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN FOR BRINGING.

WE DIDN'T ASK FOR SNAKES NAME YES A FRIEND OF MINE NAMED HER LUCKY BECAUSE WE ACTUALLY PICKED THE SNEAK UP ON THE ROAD AS A BABY.

ABOUT FOUR YEARS AGO OR OR SO AND SO THE THOUGHT WAS THAT IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR ME.

SHE MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN SO LUCKY SO THAT SHE WAS SHE WAS LUCKY TO HAVE BEEN PICKED UP WELL THANK YOU FOR COMING IN.

THANK YOU.

LUCKY FOR COMING.

I APPRECIATE YOU BOTH BEING HERE.

THE BOOK AGAIN IS HARPING TEXAS THE QUEST FOR REPTILES AND AMPHIBIANS IT'S FASCINATING.

I ENCOURAGE YOU TO PICK IT UP AND THEN GO OUTSIDE AND FIND YOURSELF SOME REPTILES AND AMPHIBIANS THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR TODAY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

AND I WILL