(exciting music) - Earlier this year, during a February news conference, the president of the Michigan Education Association declared the state's teacher shortage a crisis.

We explore the contributing factors and seek solutions for retaining and attracting teaching talent on West Michigan Week.

Earlier this year, the Michigan Education Association commissioned a survey with Ann Arbor based Emma White Research, nearly 2,600 educators were surveyed.

It found job satisfaction is plummeting and more teachers are now seeking new careers.

What does this mean for teachers, parents, and most importantly, educating students?

We turn to Dr. Chasity Baily-Fakhoury, associate professor at the College of Education and Community Innovation at Grand Valley State University, and Paula Herbart, president of the Michigan Education Association.

Thank you both so much for joining us.

Paula, you call this a crisis.

What are the factors, what's contributing to this?

- Well, I think there are several factors contributing to this, not the least of which is the disinvestment of public schools and the increased heavy loads and burdens that are happening to public school educators across the state and across the country.

- And Dr., what is happening when it comes to educating future teachers?

What are we seeing?

What are the rates of students coming into programs who want to get into teaching?

- Well, for a long time, GDSU and our College of Education, we continued to see an increase in students wanting to become educators, and in 2011, when the legislation was passed, that changed teacher tenure laws and the ways in which to go about to get re-certified and continuing the certification, we noticed a drop, a dramatic drop in the numbers of students who were coming in and wanted to become teachers.

Over the past couple of years, we have noticed an uptick again but just with what Paula has said, we're seeing the same sorts of concerns with students around legislation that is being written to undermine teacher expertise and concerns about, you know, advancing equity in the classroom, addressing opportunity gaps that exist, and how folks may be attacked for doing that work to support students in their development.

And so these are some of the concerns we're seeing.

- I typically will research the program and then I make some bullet points.

I don't stick to them necessarily but I do have one of my bullet points here is the word respect.

What are we seeing in society when it comes to the teaching profession in and of itself?

- Well, you know, that's really interesting, Patrick.

One of the things that we know is that families love their children's teachers.

It's those teachers that aren't doing a good job.

It's a teacher in another district or across the state or something.

And there is this, or it's this idea of educators, not their child's classroom educator, but teachers are not being responsible, or teachers are trying to not have to teach literacy, or those teachers aren't doing right by those kids.

But my teacher is doing a great job.

Well, what they don't understand is that we are all doing the same job and working just as hard, but professionals like educators want some professional agency.

They want to be able to teach their students not have an over-emphasis on standardized tests, not have an over-emphasis on evaluations being taken based on a test score from a student who maybe has food insecurity or home insecurity.

And these students come to school with significant challenges and our educators are doing everything that they can to work with these students to ensure they have every opportunity to succeed.

And they're being undermined by the legislature, by political rhetoric, and that causes an educator to think twice about, do I really wanna do that?

And more importantly, and worst of all, it keeps young people from thinking about, is that a career I want to pursue?

- You mentioned pay earlier, right?

Salary, I drove through the state over the weekend and I see an Aldi distribution center and advertising 20 to $24 an hour.

What is the salary?

What's the starting pay?

What's the average salary and how does it compare?

And if you are a teacher, are you looking elsewhere right now considering we're seeing a shift in salaries?

- So the NEA says the average teacher's salary across the country and in Michigan particularly is about 65 to $66,000 a year.

But that's someone who's been teaching quite a while.

Let me give you just a personal example.

I started teaching 30 years ago, my niece started teaching this fall.

In her school district, she is starting out at $37,500 as a first year teacher.

30 years ago, I started out making only $10,000 less than that.

That is horrific, that in 30 years, the starting salary has gone up $10,000.

No other career is that true.

It doesn't even meet inflation, it doesn't meet cost of living, none of those things.

We have to be very concerned.

And then there are some school districts across the state that are offering $55,000 a year, which is great.

It's a good starting salary, but unfortunately that's not the norm, that's the exception.

- Where is the disconnect?

Do we value our teachers?

Where are we as a society?

Because there's a lot of people lining up at the complaint department but what is being done to make sure we have the best and the brightest educating our future generations?

- Well, we are acting as though that we do not value our teachers as we should, if not for our teachers, we would not have all the other professions that we do have.

And we can just look at what has been stated about the salary and we see that the value for the work is not there.

I mean, we are talking about teaching and we're talking about this democratic project that we all are a part of and at the heart of K-12 education and secondary education is an educated populace, right?

So that we can continue this great democratic experiment that we all are part of.

And so if we really thought about the foundation, the bedrock of education to this society, then I think our salaries for our teachers would look totally different.

- So what has happened over time?

When did we first begin to see losing numbers in teaching, in support staff, administration, I would imagine as well.

When did you begin to see a shift?

- Well, we started to see that within the organization about 10 or 15 years ago, we started bringing a rally cry to the fact that we had smaller numbers of students entering colleges of education.

In the last 10 years, the decline has been almost 50% less students have gone into the teaching profession or in other, as you say, public school professions like school bus drivers, school para-educators, custodial maintenance workers, operational, part of that has to do with the change in the way that we compensate people upon their retirement.

We changed the retirement laws for public educators pretty significantly 10 years ago around 2011 as Dr. Fakhoury was talking about.

And so that becomes something that we have to really think about.

We have always had this covenant in the state where we always knew that we weren't going to get paid a ton of money, we were going to make a good wage, we were going to have insurance and benefits and those sorts of things, but that we would have security in retirement as part of that covenant.

Well, that began to chip away.

Now educators are having to pay not an insignificant portion of their salaries to insurance but not unlike other professions across this country, but they've also lost other things.

And their salary hasn't kept up in the way that other professions have in terms of the cost of living, et cetera.

So while an engineer might also be paying for their insurance, might also be paying for part of their retirement, they're also making 20 and $30,000 more a year than a public school employee is.

- So the big picture now, you're calling this a crisis, the shortage that we're now entering into, you have data now, right, from a survey, what are the findings in this survey?

- Well, you know, one of the things that we know can make a difference is ensuring that we are listening to educators, that they are part of the conversation when we're making decisions about public education.

Wouldn't you agree with that?

I mean, I think that that's something that's really important.

- And you're losing, but you're losing numbers.

What are the contributing factors, what's happening?

What did you find in the survey by Emma White Research?

- Well, budget cuts, remote learning.

I think COVID has a lot to do with it.

We cannot ignore the fact, for the last two years, the entire world has been dealing with a pandemic and it has caused stress.

There is trauma that goes with that, not just for students, but for educators.

And remember, educators are parents too.

And so they're having a kind of a double whammy in the results of that, dealing with growing employee shortages, they're worried that student mental health issues aren't being addressed.

And so they're afraid that they can't even address them.

They need supports.

They want to have good mentorship.

They wanna have livable wages.

They want to ensure that they are being evaluated on the things that matter, like their professional practice, and having someone who really supports them.

What do you think Dr. Fakhoury?

- Yes, I agree 100% with everything that you've stated, that is totally correct.

What we see in the classroom is a microcosm of the things that we see in society.

And so when we're talking about what you said about hunger, right, about, you know, housing insecurity, or students who may be unhoused, where we're talking about just the, of course, this grief that we're all in from the pandemic and how that affects children and teachers and all of these things teachers are grappling with before you get to talking about what the lesson is for today, before we get to talking about meeting the objectives, we're meeting students on a human level, right.

Meeting those needs to be able to expand their horizons and to provide this great literature and this historical context and this geometry and algebra.

And so that is the challenge that we all as a members of society need to understand is that it's not just, there is not just teaching and learning that is going on in the classroom.

We are talking about students, social, emotional development, their mental health and wellbeing, and around basic issues around food and housing and clothing that teachers are dealing with along with their administrators and folks in the community.

And so that is something that we cannot shirk, but we have been trying to and trying to say that teachers, and what is happening in K12 education, is the reason for so many ills and no, those structural inequities that we see in society rear their head in the classroom.

- Where are we seeing high turnover, and Dr., I'll stick with you on that.

I know that you've been working as a teacher for quite some time.

Where are the areas where we see high turnover within the profession?

- Well, high turnover we see in the most under-resourced schools in our state and this plays across the nation as well.

So those schools that are under-resourced that experience the deepest and widest opportunity gaps are the places that we're seeing the high turnover.

When you talk about salary and you talk about teachers also coming out of their own pockets, their own household income to support, to provide resources and supports for their students in their classrooms.

Again, these are some of our most under-resourced schools and that creates quite a burden.

And these are the places where we see large numbers of teachers leaving.

- So when we see teachers leaving, like, the domino effect of all of this, what happens within a district, take us inside so that parents understand what happens when teachers begin to leave?

- So class sizes go up, and as Dr. Fakhoury was saying, we're talking about an area where it's already stressed, economically and socially, and maybe in their needs for their own security of feeling safe at home and feeling safe at school.

And so the teacher or the educator, or the bus driver or the foods might be the only secure adult, reliable adult in that child's life.

And then because of the stresses that these students bring to the school, maybe adverse experiences that they've had before even stepping into the classroom, these teachers are trying to address these needs.

They're already in a high stress situation, they're under-resourced which means these educators are making less dollars and then they in order for their own mental health and for their own financial security go to another school.

Now, this area that already has high needs now has chaos inserted.

They have more instability, more opportunities for them to miss a chance to learn because they need to develop a new relationship with a new teacher.

And we may not even be able to fill it with a full-time educator, we may need to have a substitute teacher.

And these substitute teachers we've reduced the expertise that they need in order to enter these classrooms.

And so they're coming with less skills, trying to deal with students who need the absolute best skilled individual in front of them.

It's just one thing after another.

And so when the governor suggests we need to build an equity into our budgets as opposed to having it all be equal, we need to look at that.

We need equitable funding, not equal funding, a child who needs more needs to have more.

And those students who have everything that they need don't need as much as a student or as much money as a student who has a layer of needs built on top of them.

And so we should really look at Governor Whitmer's budget and support that.

And educators across the state are looking at that saying she's on the right track.

A huge investment last year and we need a huge investment this year because we've had 25 years of disinvestment.

And then we need to ensure that we address the mental health needs, that we encourage people to go into counseling, social work, and do those jobs within public schools at public services so that they have the supports that they need so that these domino effects don't continue to perpetuate an already stressed system.

- Do you suspect that the funding will continue to be there?

We've had this injection of federal money from the pandemic but we all know that there are the ebbs and flows of state budgeting.

It always kind of comes and goes.

So what is sustainable?

What do you expect?

- Well, I think that our community needs to decide what they value, do they want to ensure that we have economic success and growth within our state?

If we do, we need to invest early, pre-K, K through three, higher ed, community college, the trades, that takes resources.

We need to invest in our young people and our most vulnerable communities to ensure that they are an economic value add, not a drain.

And the way that we're going to do that is if we invest now in our community schools and our public schools and our early childhood, into all of these areas, so that later they're not costing us money as a state.

- Dr. Fakhoury, do you get a sense that there is energy in the classroom with educators?

- That keeps me going.

That is the reason that I continue to be a teacher educator because we have young folks who are coming into the profession who are aware of the challenges, they are coming in eyes wide open and they are wanting to be the best that they can be, to partner with their students, with the families, with the community, and help folks reach their full potential.

So they are energized even in the face of what seems to be really daunting.

And the disrespect that you spoke to as far as educators are concerned, they are excited.

They want to know the latest and greatest strategies and techniques and practices to support students on their journey whether that be pre-K, elementary, or secondary education.

And so there is a fire, there is a fire there that folks are bringing into the pre-service programs at our university here.

And I'm sure across the state, as I have interacted with other pre-service students at different institutions.

So, and I'm just gonna, you know, I'm going to wrap my arms around them and lock arms with them and just to continue to grow that fire that they have and serve their communities, and their families and children.

- One of the largest growing classifications within the Michigan Education Association is our aspiring educators of Michigan in our union.

They are joining our union as student members who want to become educators.

And it's growing like wildfire, in this last year, it's been really unbelievably uplifting, and it gives me a lot of hope.

- Give me a sense of the gap.

I mean, how many future educators do you need?

I'm sensing there's retirement, there are a number of teachers who are leaving because they're dissatisfied.

What is the gap?

What do you sense that gap is?

And what is the need and how do we recruit their successors?

- So for, we see approximately 5,000 educators across the state leave for retirement or other reasons.

And we see approximately 3,000 educators coming into the profession each year in these last five to six years.

So the gap is about half, about 2,000, and that's really, really troubling.

And we've been talking about this for years and all of the sudden, the pandemic really shone a very bright spotlight on this issue for which I'm grateful but now we have to do something about it, right?

And I'm willing to do everything we can.

And we're partnering with universities, we're partnering with government officials across the board on every side of the aisle to ensure that we have everything that we need so that every student has everything that they need to be successful.

- Because right, if we have this gap and we begin to see outcomes, right, student outcomes are important.

If the outcomes start to slip, now what?

I mean, how do we make sure that we have the best and the brightest teachers in the classroom to make sure that we maintain that high level of learning among students?

- Well, you know, we take a very holistic approach to the students who are coming into our teacher programs.

We are seeing students who are in love with the subjects and disciplines that they teach.

They have a passion for it, and they are excited to go into the classroom, right?

And we are also, there are so many different initiatives that are happening not only within the university but outside in the community, organizations here in Kent County in particular.

KConnect is one organization that is working really hard to try to help address the gap that we see.

There are supports for making connections, mentorship between in-service teachers and pre-service teachers, right, to be able to get their questions answered, to really understand what a day in the life is like.

And so there are a lot of initiatives around trying to encourage and to retain pre-service teachers right into the profession through those first three years which are extremely critical.

Induction programs that the universities have to match a veteran teacher with a novice teacher, first year, second year teacher, is really an important support.

And so these are things that we know that work and that we need to stick to, that we need to grow, and that we need to put the financial resources behind to be able to expand, to provide that support, so that we are lessening that gap that folks are staying, and also thinking about ways in which as you've been in the profession, not everybody wants to leave the classroom to go into administration to make a difference.

So what can we do as far as teacher leaders, right?

Leaders in the building who are working to support their colleagues and grow teacher efficacy in their buildings.

And that's another area that we should be looking at in demonstrating the way in which we value the expertise that these folks are bringing.

So all of those things, I think are ways in which we can address these gaps and try to mitigate them.

- There's been so much going on in our society when it comes to curriculum, politics, everything else, what is your message to parents as we make our way through this teaching shortage?

- Your educators are your partners, and we need to strengthen and build those relationships from the very beginning.

And it's hard for parents who have a lot on their plate to make time to engage in a public school these days.

And I completely understand that.

But what I also know is a family who invests a little bit of time with the classroom educator will see a wealth of reward in their student outcomes because their students will know that they're invested in what's happening in their classroom, and the educators will know that the families are invested.

Remember, children come from a variety of families.

They might not have parents.

They might be living with aunts and uncles or second generation kinds of families.

And the families are embraced by educators.

And we need to ensure that we're not allowing these political kinds of rhetorics to divide educators and families and communities, that we need to partner together with one another, to make sure that we're doing all that we can to help the child that they are helping to raise get everything that they need because I know that educators want to ensure that happens.

- Paula Herbart, president MEA, Dr. Chasity Baily-Fakhoury, I think I got that right.

Thank you both so much.

It's been a great half hour and we appreciate your time.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

- And thank you for joining us.

We'll see you again soon.

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