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♪ opening music ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ <Amanda> Well, good evening, and welcome to Making It Grow.

We're so glad that you can join us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty, a Clemson Extension agent, and I get to come here and be with my co-host and friend Terasa Lott, and Terasa, we learned so much because we have these great guests every week.

<Terasa> We really do.

It's so much fun, and for me learning, I don't know, it just gives me this satisfaction, especially if it's like little tidbits of trivia.

<Amanda> Well, you are the Master Gardener coordinator, and you now have a honorary horticulture degree, because you know so much, Terasa, and I guess part of that's because, you know, you were working with agents and all that as the Master Gardener coordinator, you hear things that are being talked about?

<Terasa> I certainly try.

I don't know if I am deserving of an honorary horticulture degree, but always try to absorb as much information as I can.

<Amanda> Well, you certainly bring a lot of that knowledge to us right here, and Vicky Bertagnolli, you work with HGIC, but you also still have some connections with the Aiken Extension office, I believe.

<Vicky> Yep.

So I've been with Extension since 2008, and I've been in the Aiken extension office since 2010.

So, I get to work there and part time for the HGIC.

<Amanda> Okay, and if you ever hear of that Vicky's going to be speaking somewhere, you've just got to go Vicky.

You just, it's like she's drinking - she's had 19 cups of coffee.

She's just the most excited person to be talking, and, I was at a meeting one time and these people, it was just these people had to be there, and they weren't, ...they had to be there to get hours, and they all put down their books or their phones and said, Who is this woman?

I'm learning so much and they were excited about you.

<Vicky> I love going, having a speaking engagement is one of my most favorite things about this job <Amanda> It comes across.

Okay, and Rob Last you are a commercial horticulture agent, and you used to be down where they grew lots of watermelons and things, and now you're in Lexington, and I know they do lots of strawberries there.

What else are you helping people with?

<Rob> That's right, Amanda.

We also do a lot of leafy greens.

So right now we're busy transplanting and planting collards?

<Amanda> Oh, of course you do.

Yes.

Yes.

>> All those sorts of good things ready, for ready for Fall Market?

<Amanda>...and so do most of those going to be fresh market or some of them canned or frozen?

Or tell me the extent of the things.

<Rob> That's a really good question, and most of what we grow in Lexington County is going to be going for fresh market.

<Amanda> Okay.

Well, I have a funny story to tell you.

When my mother felt fatigued, she would say I need some Lexington County tender greens, and um, which is a type of mustard green, I believe <Rob> That's correct.

Yes.

<Amanda>So, she would come home and cook those up, and she said it was restorative.

So, and they are wonderful for you, aren't they.

<Rob> That's it.

So I mean, a lot of the brassicas with the high gluconate compounds have some anti-carcinogenic properties, as well.

<Amanda> Well, anyway, they just made her feel better, gave her a little pep, and Mary Vargo, you are now - Tell me about your new position.

<Mary> Yeah, it's a new transition for me.

I'm still with Clemson just now at the Botanical Garden as the Extension outreach and garden manager there, so.

<Amanda> - and tell people where the Botanical Garden is.

Not everybody knows where it is.

They don't know when it's open and they don't know how much it costs.

<Mary> Yeah, well, it's free.

It's open to the public.

It's right kind of on that main road when you're pulling into Clemson.

Sometimes people can just pass by it, but we've got a huge sign out there that says South Carolina Botanical Garden and there's lots to see and lots of lots of spaces to roam and see really beautiful things.

<Amanda> Well, we're glad that they'll let you come down here.

Mary, I think y'all have a good bit of parking there for people, and you don't have to be worried about having to back into some tiny little space.

<Mary> No.

There's lots of parking areas.

There's one right when you pull into the gate and then there's one further down the lane if you go into the desert garden area, a huge parking spot there.

<Amanda> - and we're really looking forward to, to visiting you up there.

We can't wait to see you there.

It's just a marvelous resource for South Carolina with the beautiful South Carolina Botanical Garden.

<Mary> Definitely.

It's - we got a lot of stuff to show off there.

<Amanda> You sure do.

We have some fun things for you to watch as we get to little interstitials, tonight.

We're going to the Irmo Middle School, a pollinator garden.

You'll have a grand time there.

We certainly did.

Austin Jenkins, a naturalist extraordinaire, comes to talk to us about cicadas and the heifer project, which is a look back at the past because our 30th anniversary is coming up, has a segment of my trying to lead a cow, not something that I do every day, and then that tells you that we are also going to be at the state fair, because they have lots of people showing cows at the State Fair, and October the 18th, and we're going to do a show there.

It's going to be in the afternoon, and I hope that you will come and join us we would love to see you, and you can bring a hat if you want to.

I'll have a hat too.

Please remember that's October the 18th at the South Carolina State Fair.

Well, Terasa, you usually start us off with wonderful, beautiful things.

So let's do that.

<Terasa> Yes, that's our gardens of the week segment, and it's the time when you can show off what you're doing in your yard, your garden or maybe you've captured one of South Carolina's beautiful places.

Today we begin with Jane Lagrone who's in Clemson and she shared an assortment of brightly colored zinnias from her neighbor's garden, Nancy Tompkins, and she said that Nancy always is nice to share her flowers, and I believe that Jane helps to take care of them when Nancy goes away.

So, what a nice relationship.

Laura Doctor in North Myrtle Beach shared double purple datura flowers and one of the common names for this plant is Devil's trumpet.

<Amanda> - and it makes a loud noise if it's double.

(laughs) <Terasa> Sharon Schrader shared that's three S's in a row, Sharon Schrader shared a landscaped area that combines in the ground plantings with containers, and I love that she has two little trucks in there that she used as decorative accents.

From Ann Barber, a plate bearing pickled peppers that she reports to have grown herself in the garden <Amanda> Plate of pickled peppers.

(laughing) <Terasa> and we wrap up today with Marilyn Boggs, who shared one of the swallowtail butterflies, and in this picture, you can really see the projections on the hind wings, which gives it the name swallowtail.

So thank you to everyone that shared photos with us.

I received them in a multitude of ways.

You can post them on our Facebook page, share them in Messenger, send them to me in email, and then a random assortment gets to make it on the show.

<Amanda> but people can go to the Facebook page and see all of them there, and they're just beautiful.

<Terasa> They really are, and each one is unique in its own way.

<Amanda> Terasa, people also ask questions, sometimes they put those on Facebook or get them to people in various ways, and then sometimes our guests have questions that they'd gotten.

What should we start with tonight?

<Terasa> We're going to start with a unusual looking, we'll say feature on a fern, and sometimes the questions come in just as pictures, and we don't always know what the question is, and this one was like that.

So it was just kind of a picture, and you know, we assume if there was a question, it would be what are these odd looking ball shapes on this fern?

<Amanda> Oh, good assumption, Terasa.

Well Vicky, do you have any idea what's going on?

<Vicky> So, Pat is one of our friends in Laurens County, and she sends lots and lots of pictures, and this is one of those things where she'll send a picture and she doesn't always ask what it is, but I know what she's wanting to know what it is, and this is really cool.

So this is called a fern leaftier, and it's a caterpillar, and this particular caterpillar will take.

So, we've got a leaf, we've got a frond and it'll take those leaflets and fold the tips of the leaflets, and it ties it together with a little piece of silk, and it makes a little it makes a little ball.

It's a little domicile for this caterpillar, and it'll live inside there, and it'll make sometimes it'll make two or three of them real close together and as it grows, it'll move into another one of these little fern balls and it's in there doing its thing.

It's eating some of the foliage.

<Amanda> Yes.

>> and it's going to be deprecating inside there too.

and what they <Amanda> - a reason to move it at some point.

<Vicky> What scientists think that is happening is that they're using that frass as a, not just using the dome itself, the ball itself as protection from a predator, but they're also using the frass in there to deter predators also.

<Amanda> Wow.

<Vicky> and so there's three different species of this caterpillar that will do this, but they're all in the same genus.

It's Herpetogramma, is what the genus is, and one of the cool things is, is when this caterpillar moves out, and it's done with these little fern balls, spiders will move in and use it as a little house.

<Amanda> Isn't that just the most charming thing you've ever heard?

Well, does the moth lay the eggs on ferns?

<Vicky> So, it's going to lay it on the fern and then that egg is going to hatch and then that caterpillar is going to start... <Amanda> - making different sized little... >> Right, and it's specific to fern.

So, this caterpillar is not going to go lay on a canna leaf or in an oak tree or anything like that.

These are specific to ferns, <Amanda> The relationships between plants and animals in the environment is fascinating, isn't it?

<Vicky> Yep.

<Amanda> That is just too cool for school.

Thank you so very, very much.

Terasa, that's going to be hard to top.

(laughs) <Terasa> It really is, but Linda sent a question to us and she didn't tell me where she was from, but Linda is curious.

She says, "Is it true that there's an insect that lays eggs inside muscadines?

<Amanda> Whoa!

Well... if it...if there was something in there, I don't know if you've noticed because of the seeds that you're going to have to spit out at some point.

Rob, what do you think?

<Rob> That sounds like it may be a spotted wing drosophila, and that's an invasive fruit fly.

It's one of the few - it's the only fruit fly that we have in South Carolina that will actually feed and lay its eggs in ripe fruit.

Most of our fruit flies will actually go after rot, overripe or rotting fruit.

<Amanda> I have a compost bucket sitting on the counter, and I have to keep a napkin over it, because it's got all those darn fruit flies on it.

<Rob> Yeah, and it's often that those aromas from the fermentation process have been overripe that will attract the fruit flies, <Amanda> but this one goes to real fruits.

Tell me what's going on.

<Rob> That's correct.

Yeah, they feed on a wide range of soft fruit.

Oh, that will be strawberries, blueberries, blackberries, raspberries, grapes, even to even peaches and plums, and what you'll find with these insects, is that the female has kind of soft shaped ovipositor and it will pierce the skin of the fruit, laying... 1 to 3 eggs inside the fruit, which will then develop and create, you'll find it almost a sunken type lesion, and a needle prick, and that's usually characteristic of it been spotted wing drosophila, <Amanda> How much damage do they do to the people who are growing these fruits?

<Rob> Commercially, they're really big problem, because you don't know the larvae is in there until you've actually harvested the fruit, or unfortunately, the consumer actually gets the fruit and finds the larvae in there.

There are things that we do commercially regarding temperature control.

We can actually halt the lifecycle of the larvae by keeping the temperature really well regulated.

So about the temperature of a domestic fridge.

<Amanda> Okay.

So if I got a bunch of strawberries or something and one was in there, would I even notice it?

<Rob> You may not.

You may not <Amanda> I may not, I know because they're kind of small.

<Rob> They really are.

They're also not going to do you any harm if you do happen to ingest them.

<Amanda> Yeah.

Yeah.

<Mary> I heard on a farm one time that they use pheromone ties to kind of distract some of the flies.

Is that something that some of your growers ever use?

<Rob> Absolutely, yeah, we certainly use pheromone traps.

<Amanda> Tell people what pheromones are.

<Rob> Pheromones are sex hormones that are released by the males or females to attract the mate for the insect to actually allow them to breed and fly away.

<Amanda> ...like an insect specific perfume or aftershave.

<Rob> Yeah, exactly.

There has been some work been done by North Carolina State University to actually try and breed gent creates sterile, sterile females so that way we can maintain the population from a homeowner perspective and a lot of my commercial growers will also do this, they'll set out either red wine vinegar traps, so we can actually monitor the population and time an insecticide applications that we're going to make to actually when we've got the adults there.

<Amanda> Okay, well, that was just fascinating.

My goodness gracious, but I'm not going to worry about it because it's just so little it's really inconspicuous.

Okay.

<Terasa> To think of all the fruits, muscadines would be least susceptible.

Yeah, I was reading something that there is a kind of a threshold by which that the female can't puncture that skin.

So your softer fruits, I think blueberries are especially prone to that attack.

<Amanda> Okay, thanks so much.

Well, who else needs to know something?

<Terasa> Ann, who also happened to be from Laurens County, which was from where Pat was from?

She sent us a photograph.

This one came in on Facebook.

<Amanda> Did this one have a question with it?

<Terasa> It did.

(all laugh) Yes, we didn't have to interpret.

She said this plant her zinnia was beautiful until recently, and then it seemed to happen within a week.

Can you tell me what this is and how to treat it?

<Amanda> Ah!

Well, Mary, I have zinnias and mine don't look as good as hers.

I hadn't been worried about it, but tell us your advice.

<Mary> Zinnias at the end of the season, they can tend to look like this.

That's a general kind of leaf spot.

Zinnias get several different leaf spot caused by either a fungal pathogen or a bacterial pathogen.

This one in particular looks like a fungal pathogen.

I think it is cercospora leaf spot.

It's kind of characteristic to what we usually see with those symptoms.

Usually, that center of the leaf spot is almost white or gray in color.

<Amanda> Well, does it make any difference, what's causing the leaf spot?

Do I need to worry about or do anything?

<Mary> Yeah, so some of these leaf spots can be seed born.

So if they're receding in that area, you might want to maybe get fresh seed, but for the most part, it's just cosmetic damage.

There are things you can do, like make sure you're not overhead, watering, splashing any of those fungal spores everywhere, but for the most part, at the end of the season, zinnias tend to sort of look like this, but the main thing is just making sure you planted them in the right spot, and you're avoiding overhead watering or splashing any of those spores around.

So there are some... <Amanda>- but don't go out there and stand with an umbrella over them.

It does rain sometimes.

<Mary> No.

Yeah, maybe try a fresh batch, and then next year, remove all that foliage just so you don't have any, inoculum into the next growing season.

<Amanda> All right, well, thank you so much.

So I love it when it's something just, you know, turn your back and do something.

<Mary> Exactly, yeah.

<Amanda> All right.

Thank you.

<Amanda> We went to the Irmo Middle School and they have a pollinator garden, and the way they've in it interspersed it with things for the children to learn, is just fascinating.

We had a great day, and I hope you will too, ♪ music ♪ <Group> Welcome to the pollinator garden.

>> This is a brochure that students have put together to talk about the monarch butterflies.

>> The monarch butterflies are very crucial for our environment and ecosystem, and there are over 150 crops in the US that are going to be necessary for pollination.

It's what the monarchs do.

<Jermainee>and without our crops been, we might not survive.

So it's good that monarchs are pollinating our crops.

>> In the beginning of the year, we learned that the butterflies come from Canada, down through the US into Mexico, and they just they stay there through the winter, and just go back when they're ready after winter.

>> Throughout the year, we tag monarch butterflies.

First we capture them in the garden, and we tag them carefully on the wings with these marking tags.

This - the tags are not harmful at all.

They go carefully on the wing and we capture them to make sure that we can see if any of our monarchs that we find within the garden are recovered in Mexico.

<Rey Brooks>...and in order for those monarchs to have a stable and normal migration process, they have to have certain kinds of milkweed.

So whenever they come through South Carolina, there are three native species of milkweed, we have Asclepias incarnata, also known as swamp milkweed, You have Tuberosa, also known as butterfly milkweed, and there's syriaca, also known as common milkweed.

<Jermainee>...but unfortunately, monarchs are endangered or are declining for a variety of reasons.

<Ashley> So basically, the milkweed supply is just running low, and without those plants, they are the only like resource for the monarchs to be able to lay their eggs, which means without the milkweed plants, then they won't be able to keep reproducing, and are going to leave our plants just unpollinated.

<Jermainee> but there are ways that you can help with the monarchs.

You can plant milkweed, which is their host plant, as you know.

<Amanda> I'm at Irmo Middle School and I'm speaking with Will Green, who's a seventh grade science teacher, you have my condolences and congratulations for being able to do that.

>> Thank you.

I appreciate that.

We need those for sure.

<Amanda> and we're sitting in front of a pollinator garden, and you got the idea to put this in, I imagine based on the fact that the monarch butterflies need our support.

<Will> That's right.

All pollinators need our support, but we were especially interested in having a garden that featured milkweed, which is a monarch's host plant, and then we also have some other things in the garden, but the main focus is three species of native milkweed that we have in this garden, specifically designed for the monarchs, but again, pollinators in general, visit the garden.

<Amanda> I know that's a lovely thing to do, to support the ecology of the world of North and South America, but I've enjoyed talking with some of your students, and learning about how each one has a different reason that this garden is so interesting to them, and what makes them want to come and work with it.

So can you talk about some of the spin offs, I think that is the surprising thing you told me that happened as well?

<Will> Right.

So this, the garden is one part of the overall work that we do.

It's all intended to give the kids a chance to take action to become passionate about something and to take action on some, some real issues that, you know, that they can become just interested in and learn more about, and it's cool for the kids, because sometimes I'm learning right alongside them and, and they get a chance to plug into the work in lots of different ways.

Some of them love the idea and the action of coming out and catching butterflies catching monarchs in the garden and tagging them, <Amanda> - and when they tag them, that was very peculiar.

It's kind of like putting a sticker on a banana.

Tell me about that.

<Will> That's right.

The technology has changed over the years, it used to be just some adhesive you put on a piece of paper and stick it on the wing, and now the technology has led us to a sticker that similar to something you would find on produce at the grocery store, and it has a little unique code and a website that people can go to, and the idea is that we find out where our monarchs, monarchs that are on the east coast, where they migrate to, because they don't all migrate to Mexico, like the ones in the Midwest that funnel down through Mexico and into the mountains of Mexico.

So, the idea is that maybe we can, you know, figure out where our monarchs are heading to.

<Amanda>...and monarchs leave Mexico, that's where they spend their winter, and they come up, and you see a few sometimes on that upward migration, but the majority of the ones you see, are coming down in August, I believe.

<Will> Yeah, that's right.

So, you know, as they migrate, there's different generations, you know, four, some even believe, maybe five generations in between and, there's a super organism that is genetically different than the others.

There's the one that migrates to Mexico and roosts over winter and then migrates back, but we see the majority of our monarchs around the late August, September beginning of October time, and that's when we do our tagging, <Amanda> That's perfect, because that's when the kids are back in school.

<Will> That's exactly right.

So we hit the ground running at the beginning of the year, and we introduce them to this issue of pollinators in general, but monarchs specifically, and the decline in their numbers and why that's happening, and so the kids right off the bat, just get really deep into understanding why this work is important.

and that they are going to, you know, become a part of it, and then have a chance to take action.

We have had, you know, kids go to the Irmo Town Council and to present to them to ask for their support, and partner with us to get milkweed out into the community, specifically to see the parks and the gardens in the town of Irmo.

We've had kids that, you know, they take part in terms of, you know, art projects, <Amanda> Your signs are just great.

<Will> Exactly, and to make the signs, you know, that spread awareness, because that's one of our ultimate goals, is to spread awareness of the issue.

You know, the signs take a student that's gifted in the arts and, being artistic, and it takes a kid that, that, you know, is good at research and processing information and putting it in words that are theirs, but also, you know, it explains and educates the public with whatever topic they want to educate them about.

So, we're proud of our signs and the fact that students created them.

<Amanda> - but in your greenhouse, y'all have a program where you raised bedding plants, and also the milkweed, and make them available to the public at some time, and I believe a lot of the children really like greenhouse work.

<Will> That's right, they do, and you know, we have students in there that have never put their hands in soil before, and so they are really excited to be able to do that and learn the process of planting seeds and transplanting and we teach them how to root different things.

Our science fair projects actually have come from work that we do in the greenhouse, and we get this real relevant scientific data that we can actually use and put into practice, you know, with our work the next year.

So it's good stuff, and we realized that, you know, our efforts to get milkweed into the community is, you know, that's the primary focus of the greenhouse, but we also raise other plants as well and they are able to plant some vegetables in the raised beds that we have and some of them you know, get to harvest the vegetables and take them home.

So, there's a lot of things to do for a lot of students.

<Amanda> - and one of the things that's fun is of course, you've got the Gulf Fritillary, and so they learn about mimicry and some other scientific principles.

<Will> That's right.

Yeah.

So, passion vine sort of planted itself in our garden, and that's the host plant for the fritillaries.

and so we get lots of fritillaries in the garden, and one of the things that they learn is the difference in flight for monarchs and fritillaries, as I like to say the fritillaries just kind of fritillary along and they flap their wings a lot, where monarchs will flap their wings and then glide, and so they're able to identify the difference, and they learn that the milkweed has cardenolides in it, which are toxins that the monarchs uptake, and that is a defense mechanism for them, and since they are orange, the other orange butterflies like fritillary sort of get this mimicry defense because they resemble monarchs to some of the predators that might, you know, might want to munch on them.

<Amanda> Y'all send kids out with nets sometimes, because although most of what happens naturally here in the garden, but you do bring some of the caterpillars inside so that you can watch the process and they got to come out here and figure out which orange butterfly I'm supposed to catch.

<Will> That's exactly right.

Yeah.

So students come out, and they will bring Monarch caterpillars back into the classroom just so we can observe them and watch them, and they will go through their lifecycle in there, and we can tag them from inside the classroom, in addition to catching them, the adults out here and tagging those, and sure they will, they have to know the difference in fritillaries and Monarchs because we don't tag anything but monarchs, <Amanda> I think you have a partner who's instrumental in this.

<Will> I do.

Yeah, I do.

So Cacie Davenport is our seventh grade science teacher, and she is right in there with me, and doing all of this work, and so we work together as a team to make sure that our students are able to participate and get all of the same experiences, you know, that we have to offer here in the garden, and also the greenhouse work as well.

<Amanda> I'd like to put in a plug for both y'all because I believe y'all have, you have 9 months appointments or whatever it is, and yet, y'all are here in the summer, when it's really hot and I'm happy, a time to be outside in South Carolina, both of y'all are over here, spending time in the garden, and you have a true commitment to enlarging the life of your students and also being involved in the natural world.

Thank you so much.

<Will> Yeah, I appreciate that.

It's...I can't do this alone.

I appreciate and I'm extremely grateful for her help.

It is a lot of hard work.

We do put in a lot of hours, but to see the kids just get really passionate about something and, you know, understand that they may carry this from their seventh grade year on to the rest of their life and have an appreciation for gardening, an appreciation for pollinators, monarchs specifically.

You know, that's why we do this work.

<Amanda> - and if people want to know more about this at all the good things that happen at Irmo Middle School, what's the best way to find out?

<Will> Well, it's easy, they can just go to Irmo Middle School's website, and there's a link on the website that will get them to all the information about our work and all of the things that we're doing out here related to monarchs and milkweed.

<Amanda> I've had a grand time.

Thank you for inviting us.

<Will> Thank you so much for coming.

(students cheering) <Amanda> Well, I wish they'd had things like that when I was in middle school.

It wasn't nearly as much fun.

What a lucky bunch of kids and great teachers over there.

Thanks for letting us come.

Well, as always, you know, hats, hats, hats, and so when I come home and cross the Congaree River, there's one place where the guardrail stops and I've noticed this plant has been there and I've been watching it, you know, from the beautiful early blooms and so I pulled over and the dog said, "Why are we pulling over?".

The dog comes - Blue comes to doggy daycare, and I very carefully got out and walked down there and made it through the smilax and it's an array, it's spinosa or devil's walking stick, which has...it's not as bad as smilax because you'd have to put your hand on it.

Smilax just reaches out and grabs you, but anyway, it's a wonderful, wonderful native plant and can get, how tall would you say?

<Mary> Very tall.

<Amanda> Not taller than me, but yeah, <Mary> Yeah, it's got a great fall color actually in the fall it's creamy yellow and then that contrasts with the purple berries.

It's gorgeous.

<Amanda>...and when the flowers are in bloom it's just gorgeous, too.

and very attractive.

I imagine the pollinators.

You're our entomologist, Is it...?

<Vicky> If it...as long as it's got a simple flower on it, the pollinators are going to love it.

<Amanda> Anyway, so it's something you might want to include in your garden.

It's not that big and it's one wonderful conversation piece because the truck has I don't know if their spines or you know, prickles, but anyway, it's got these long things coming out, and that's why it's called Devil's walking stick, and then the white thing is Melanthera nivea, which is a native plant that not many people have, and I don't even remember how I got a start of mine.

It's extraordinarily attractive to pollinators.

Even though the flowers are not that big and showy, and it's kind of a sprawling thing, but, you know, late in the year, it's so nice to have something that the pollinators have been waiting for and that helps them at that time, so if you ever get a chance to get one, Melanthera...I think it's called snowy squarestem.

Are you familiar with it, Vicky?

<Vicky> I'm not but I mean, it looks like something that like maybe wasps like a lot, and wasps are absolutely some of my very favorite pollinators.

So I'm a big fan.

<Amanda> Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Well, you can always just take a can of soda out in the garden this time of year.

(laughs) Have all the wasps you want.

Okay.

Okay.

All righty.

Terasa, I'm sure there's no shortage of questions.

<Terasa> We never have a shortage of questions.

but anytime Vicky is on the show, we like, you know, she is an insect person, as you mentioned an entomologist.

I think she brought some cool show and tell and maybe captured some video for us of a native insect, the Carolina mantid.

Right, Vicky?

<Vicky>...and so this thing was out on my front porch, and the funny thing about it is I had gone out there to go film... and our Argiope aurantia, which is a yellow, a black and yellow garden spider.

<Amanda> Okay.

>> So, I went out there and go film her, because I was going to send in pictures.

She's making a mess on my front porch, and I was going to start out well, what is this mess and film her, and she's like, 4 egg sacs... <Amanda> When she poops, it's making a big mess.

<Vicky> - and her spent feedings are over on the ground, and I was like, "Oh, I'm going to send this in, and this is what we're going to talk about, and so I was filming the four egg sacs that she had laid on my front porch, and there was this Carolina mantid and I'm like, Oh, this is way cooler (All laugh) and <Amanda> Now, why do you say Carolina mantid?

<Vicky> So we've got two mantids in our area.

We've got a Chinese mantid and we've got a native Carolina mantid.

<Amanda> So, that's why you distinguish, because most people just say a praying mantis.

<Vicky> Correct, and so this particular one is, is the native, and they can be green, like the Chinese mantid, but their wings are significantly shorter, and I know that this one's a female because she is absolutely gravid.

Her abdomen is distended, and she's, she's ready to lay an egg mass.

I haven't found the egg mass yet, but she's ready, and it was one of those things where, you know, we don't always get to see it close up.

So I got some really great video and I got some really great pictures of her, and folks ask me all the time, you know, can we purchase mantids?

<Amanda> - to lease, because they are beneficial?

They eat insects.

<Vicky> So, they're generalist predators, and so they're really great.

It's 100% natural, pesticide free, biological control, and we can buy them, but when we're purchasing those, we're typically purchasing Chinese mantid and we're not purchasing the native, and the thing about having natural biological control in your yard and trying to release it is that we can't guarantee they're going to stay.

<Amanda> Yeah.

>> and so it's one of those things where <Amanda> Somebody else may make a better pecan pie, <Vicky> Right.

<Amanda>...next door.

<Vicky> So you know, this is one of those things where we just kind of try to foster what we already have in our landscape, and this was a really great find for me.

It's one of my favorite insects.

<Amanda> Now, when you say egg mass, if I'm not mistaken, there's a real structure.

They're not just casually laying these eggs all around.

<Vicky> So, it's not like it's a butterfly laying eggs or a stinkbug laying eggs.

It's... they make this frothy mask, and you can tell if it's a Chinese mantid or if it's a Carolina mantid, by the way that it's called an ootheca O-O-T-H-E-C-A how that ootheca looks, and but it's a frothy mass, and they'll stick it to almost anything.

It could be on leaves on twigs, sticks.

This one's going to be somewhere on my front porch.

So, it's probably like, you know, on the siding or the railing or something like that, and it'll overwinter and then the nymphs will come out in the spring.

<Amanda> - and haven't we heard about people who maybe had a Christmas tree and brought it inside and there was one of these egg masses on that and then it's warm in the house, and all of a sudden, the little whatever's happening says, oh, it's warm.

It's springtime.

It's time to hatch.

<Vicky> This exact thing happened to me when I worked in the Lexington office.

I had brought in...

So, somebody had brought this to me and I set it on my desk and didn't think about it and we went on Thanksgiving break, and whenever we came back, we have - there are cubbies in there...

So it's a divided office, and so there's little babies walking along the top of all the divider walls.

<Amanda> and there wasn't well, I hope that in the Lexington office, there wasn't a whole lot for them to eat, but maybe enough.

<Vicky> I caught as many as I could and took them outside, but everybody's like, this is your fault, isn't it?

(laughing) Yes.

<Amanda> Oh, my goodness, gracious.

What fun!

- and we're now going to have some even more fun because often Austin Jenkins, a naturalist is here with us to talk about cicadas.

I'm talking to Austin Jenkins, who is a naturalist at the University of South Carolina in Sumter and Austin, at night, the katydids sing.

<Dr.

Austin> Yes, yes, the katydids are singing at night, but just before that, you know, we have the cicadas.

<Amanda> Yeah.

>> and so it's, you know, I remember walking around as a kid and finding the little exoskeletons of cicadas on the faces of trees and what a strange creature it appears to be.

Out of that comes, you know, the cicada, and this individual once it comes out of that exoskeleton will fly up in the air, and the boys are singing.

They're the ones that sing and they're trying to attract the females.

They have, if you ever can get the opportunity to, you know, see one that's maybe on the sidewalk or something, but underneath there, if you have those rounded lobes, that's the organ for the songs, up under there.

Yeah, and I mean, imagine the cacophony that comes out of that little tiny organ.

<Amanda> Isn't that fun!

<Dr.

Austin> It's impressive.

<Amanda> So this is a male?

<Dr.

Austin> This would be a male.

<Amanda> He's the only one that sings.

<Dr.

Austin> Right.

He's the only one that sings, and the females will listen, and if they hear what they like, they'll move in that direction.

<Amanda>...he does have we call them big eyed bugs sometimes, and he has a fairly large eye.

<Dr.

Austin> He does.

<Amanda> not as big as a dragonfly, but fairly large, <Dr.

Austin> Right, right, fairly large.

Go ahead.

<Amanda> Does it eat?

<Dr.

Austin> So especially as a youngster, the cicadas that we see are, you know, living underneath the ground sucking from the roots of oak trees, for example, for two or three years, and then they'll emerge, but there's overlaps in those generations.

So we have cicadas just about every year to look at and then we also have periodical cicadas that come about... <Amanda> Get lots at one time <Dr.

Austin> Next year in fact, in 2024 should be the emergence of the periodicals up in Landsford Canal State Park is a great place to see them.

They have been underneath the ground sucking on tree roots for 13 years.

So they're going to come up at once.

<Amanda> That's a long lived insect.

<Dr.

Austin> Yes, long time in the dark, but it works for them.

They overwhelm all the predators, and they make sure that they guarantee some reproduction because of this life strategy, but they mostly as larvae, and then some as adults.

They have a long proboscis that helps them... <Amanda> - and um, this one that I found when I was going in to get some gas or something, you can see his proboscis down there, which is this structure, <Dr.

Austin> Looks like a little drinking straw that they can use to <Amanda> Kind of cool, with it, just, if you take the time to look at something up close.

Isn't it just fascinating?

Look at these gorgeous wings and feet with you know, little hooks on them to hold on to things <Dr.

Austin> - very intricate.

and some sometimes though I was thinking about songs, sometimes you'll hear one sound a little spastic.

You know, because there's, if you listen in your backyard, you'll hear, three or four different types of songs.

Those are all different types of cicadas, and you can kind of learn those songs, but after that, sometimes you'll hear like an erratic spastic call.

That's usually what happens when a cicada gets hit by this.

That's a cicada killer wasp.

Yeah, which is also listening for those sounds, and when it finds a - often a male cicada, it will sting it.

It will paralyze it.

They don't have the insects don't have refrigerators and ways to keep things fresh.

So, a good thing to do is to paralyze, your prey.

You take it somewhere and dig a hole, put the cicada down in that hole, and then lay an egg on it.

<Amanda> So they would take this They can pick up this living <Dr.

Austin>They can pick up that cicada... <Amanda> He's just paralyzed.

<Dr.

Austin>He's just paralyzed, and they'll take it into a hole, lay an egg.

The egg hatches after a few days and has a fresh living meal to consume as it develops into a new cicada killer.

<Amanda> So, only the females <Dr.

Austin> So, only the females are capturing this... only female wasps are capturing male cicadas.

>> Okay.

>> For the most part.

Yes.

<Amanda> Gosh, and then they emerge.

Yeah.

A lot of emerging going on.

Oh, the world is fascinating.

Thanks, Austin.

<Dr.

Austin> Indeed.

Glad to do it.

<Amanda> We really appreciate Austin coming over here and helping us and this is going to be something we're going to do a lot I think, because I sure enjoy it.

I know you do as well.

Well, Terasa... <Terasa> You know earlier in the show we were talking about learning new things and how I like kind of little pieces of trivia, and you sometimes share little tidbits of information on the Making It Grow Minute, which is sort of our counterpart on public radio, and it just so happened to on my way to the studio today as I opened the door to get in, I heard a Making It Grow Minute, and you know, Vicky earlier was talking about the caterpillar on the leaf here.

You've talked about some moths that use Crotalaria as their host plants.

So, I love all the connections, but I encourage you to listen to South Carolina Public Radio, lots of great shows, including the Making It Grow Minutes, where you get just a one minute teaser, and we of course, thank South Carolina Farm Bureau and Farm Bureau Federation for supporting those minutes.

<Amanda> Well, thank you so much.

I really do appreciate it, and, you occasionally make links there on your Facebook page, and you put something fresh every day on our Facebook page, and thank you so much for that Terasa.

<Terasa> You're welcome.

I surely try, but I use lots of other content as well, and things that our other extension agents contribute.

So, it's certainly not just a one person show, so to speak, but I know we have people who have questions, and we're going to try to help them.

So Gary in Lexington said I recently moved to South Carolina from Ohio and I have no idea how to take care of my lawn.

Should I be fertilizing in the fall?

<Amanda> Oh, my goodness gracious.

Well, Lexington is not in the upstate.

So.

So Rob, what would your answer be?

<Rob> So typically, in our area in Lexington, we're going to be looking at warm season grasses.

Those are going to go dormant somewhere around October, November time and they're going to stop growing.

So, we don't want to be applying nitrogen late in the season.

If you look at the soil test recommendations from Clemson Agricultural Service laboratory, typically the last application is late July for nitrogen fertilizer.

The later we go with nitrogen fertilizer, the more soft, lush, tender growth we're going to get, and that's going to kill it, could coincide with an early frost, and that's going to really cause some damage to turf grasses.

Now, whenever we're talking about fertilizer, I'd be remiss to say we don't apply any fertilizer without a soil test result, (Amanda laughs) but if you have very low phosphorus, or very low potassium, there can be some benefit to putting those two elements out in the fall, because the root system will still be growing and developing, taking those nutrients up.

So yes, depending on the situation, phosphorus and potassium may be helpful to be applied in fall.

<Amanda> That's kind of rare.

<Rob> That would be a very rare situation.

<Amanda> Overall, just normally, no.

<Rob> Normally, absolutely not, and again, with the results of the soil test <Amanda> If they specifically told you <Rob> Yes, if you're looking at soil with a very low pH then yes, lime would want to go out in the fall to give it time to work for the spring.

<Amanda> Well, thank you so very much, and you get to just sit on your hands sometimes which is nice, when you, if you're one of those lawn people.

<Rob> Absolutely.

Sitting back and smelling the roses, I think they say.

(All laugh) <Amanda> Well, as I said, this is our 30th anniversary year and so we're going back to some things that happened in the past and we went to see these charming girls and their heifer project and it ended up with the kind of a surprise for me.

♪ The South Carolina Dairy Heifer Project gives youths from non-dairy backgrounds a truly hands on experience raising a dairy heifer.

For 18 months kids care for and train their cow and participate in juried events that give them experience in public speaking, deportment and critical analysis.

Not only does this program provide quality dairy cows to add to established herds, but encourages participants to consider careers in the dairy industry.

We've been following two sisters Madelyn and Logan Bolin in their journey.

Our first stop was at the Clemson Spring Dairy weekend at the T Ed.

Garrison Arena where the girls received their calves.

From there we visited Madelyn and Logan at their home in Clover to learn how they had cared for their animals and how hard it is to get a cow to walk where you want it to.

♪ Madelyn and Logan, y'all are second generation heifer project people, and tell me about your first experience going and getting your heifer.

<Madelyn> Well, we were really, really excited, because my brothers and my mom had did the heifer project and so then when I met my heifer it was just so like happy to have my own heifer, and not to have to see my brother's heifer so I could just have my own and say it was it was my own.

It was really nice <Amanda> -and y'all were pretty young when you got your first animal, I believe.

<Logan> Yes we were four years old.

<Amanda> That's unusual.

<Logan> Yes, <Amanda> but you've grown up with heifers around you.

That made a difference... and what is the day to day operation of having a cow?

What is like, what's your day like, the interaction you have with a cow?

<Logan> So, we have to feed them and make sure they have water, and make sure they, there's not a lot of flies on them.

So they don't get sick or nothing, and then we always just walk them and make sure they're not feeling sick or anything.

Make sure they're healthy.

Just so to make sure they're feeling their self.

Okay so we have to check up on them and make sure they're okay, <Amanda> Y'all make sure that they're clean too.

Do they like to be washed off and cleaned?

<Logan> I think it cools them down.

Especially during the summer, it makes them feel cooler and relieved to not be so sweaty and hot and everything.

<Amanda> Things that you are judged on are two fold, I think.

One involves the cow, how the cow looks and one is about how you show the cow.

Can you talk a little bit about that?

<Logan> Yes, so there's certain classes that you can do.

So, showmanship is about how you present your animal to the judge, and so you want to be, you want to have like good posture and you want be, you want him to tell that you've been working with your heifer for awhile, cause you want them to kind of listen to you, and you two will work very good together, and then there's confirmation classes, which is her class to shine, and so you want to make her look the best that she can, and it's judged on her dairy character and how deep she is, and her correctness of her feet and legs, and how straight she is over her back, and just an overall very good heifer.

<Amanda> Do you feel like your confidence level in almost any situation, not just in a barn, has developed and strengthened through this?

<Madelyn> Yes ma'am.

Just because for dairy judging you have to say reasons So you have to talk to the judge.

So this really, you have to have a lot of confidence, because you have to speak up so you can understand what you're saying and so you can be clear about it.

So, because the clearer you are, the more able we are to win.

<Amanda> I think your next big event is going to be in Columbia, which is going to be the State Fair, and is that the culmination of a lot of this work?

<Madelyn> Yes ma'am.

It's like where it all comes together into that last final piece where we get to spend a lot of time with our friends and cousins and like a lot of people from different counties and stuff that are in South Carolina.

So, it's really nice getting to see everyone and getting to know their cows and getting to see everybody, a barn full of cows, and so it's where we, everyone comes together and we'll show against each other in a couple classes, usually.

We just have fun at that show.

(man auctioning cow) <Amanda> One thing I was wondering about is, you've had such a close relationship with these cows, what's it like when you are taken them for the last time and because part of the program is that these cows are going to go back into the dairy herd.

<Madelyn> Well, it's kind of sad but it's also kind of happy at the same time because you get to get a new cow.

So you get to experience someone else, because if you don't like your cow then you're going to be really happy to get rid of her.

(laughs) <Amanda>...and you have two cows at the same time.

That's kind of interesting.

Explain that to us.

So you'll get a cow and you'll raise it, and then the following year you'll get another calf, and then that show season at the end you'll sell the heifer that you've had for 18 months.

<Amanda> Okay, and you'll say goodbye?

<Logan> Yes.

<Amanda> But then you'll pack up and come home, <Madelyn> Yes.

<Amanda> and still the process just keeps on going, doesn't it?

<Madelyn> Yes ma'am.

♪ ♪ <Amanda> I'm sure those girls are all grown up now but still have their love of animals in the farm life that their parents gave them such a wonderful, wonderful way to spend their youth wasn't that fun?

Well, Terasa, whom else can we help?

<Terasa> Well, Peter wrote us from Pickens and kind of similar in thinking about fall, things are cooling off plants might be going to rest for the season.

It appears that Peter plans to replace a tree in his yard and has already already has the replacement, but hasn't found the time to cut down the tree yet and so is wondering, how can he care for that replacement in the container until he finds the time to go out and cut down the tree?

<Amanda> Oh yeah, I understand.

It would be nice if you were cutting down our Bradford pear, wouldn't it?

<Terasa> Sure, anytime, any invasive species <Amanda> Mary, what advice do you have?

<Mary> So I've seen people do things, you know, in different ways.

Ideally, fall is the time to plant your tree, that's the best time for the plant to become established, the roots, and then it can flush out new growth in the spring, but if you really don't want to plant it now, there are several different options.

One of them, you could dig a hole, put the container in the hole, and then mulch around it.

Containerized plants only have a little bit of soil medium in there, so their temperatures fluctuate quite a bit.

So, in the winter times, that root system can become really, really damaged if you let it get down to the single digits.

So you really want to help insulate it.

So if you can't plant it in the ground, put it in a hole, maybe put some pine straw or something over it or keep it in an unheated garage or structure where it's anywhere from 20 to 45 degrees, but nothing heated because you might be able to break it out of dormancy and then you'd have to, <Amanda>- even though it's dormant, you've got to give it some water occasionally?

<Mary> Yeah.

Yeah.

So check the soil moisture.

If you're keeping it in a garage or something.

It's probably only going to need water every two to three weeks.

You don't want to let it dry out, but you don't want to over water it.

<Amanda> So, don't forget about it.

<Mary> Keep an eye on it.

<Amanda> Okay, well, and I hope that he has great luck planting it and we have a wonderful fact sheet about planting trees, and there's, you know, things are different now you don't- They used to say Terasa when I was young, you know, you wanted a $20 hole for a $3 tree, but you don't want to do that now.

So, it's a lot... it's...you shouldn't go to a whole lot of work to dig the hole or to put a lot of stuff in it.

So do find out exactly what you're supposed to do.

It's easier than you think.

<Terasa> Well, and, you know, we talk about fall being a great time to plant and in many people might not know that Arbor Day in South Carolina is actually in December.

It doesn't coincide with the National Arbor Day because that is when is the best time or a good time to plant trees in South Carolina.

<Amanda> Wonderful thing for you to remember.

I'm so glad I've got your brain to figure up all the things <Terasa> You just never know when a little piece will fly right out.

<Amanda> We just got a little time left.

Do we have a short, a short question, maybe?

Or a question that's going to have a short answer.

<Terasa> Maybe we could go back to Vicky's.

We were talking about the Carolina mantid and talking about how it can serve as pest control, but then it's a generalist feeder, and so we think of beneficial insects and helping us because they eat the bad guys, but maybe we could just talk about how you know, they're - they might just eat anything they can catch the good bugs and the bad bugs.

Are there any insects that are going to be feasting on more of our pest insects?

Or are they more generalists?

<Vicky> So I think a lot of our stuff out in our landscapes like whenever you have mantids out there, when you have spiders out there, a lot of those are just kind of going after whatever they can catch.

There's, there are specific things out there that go for certain pests, but a lot of those evolved together, and so they're going to be more like parasitoids and stuff instead of a generalist predator <Amanda> They may lay an egg on them and then let the young feed... <Vicky> Yeah, so a parasitoid is an insect that it's going to lay.

It's going to kill its host in order to complete its lifecycle.

<Mary> Many wasps.

<Vicky>-a lot of those.

So, whenever in the summertime, you've got your tobacco hornworms and Mary's talking about Braconidae wasps.

I did my research in graduate school on a little fly that lays an egg inside the fire ant and makes the fire ant's head fall of.

<Amanda> and the head becomes a puparian >> Yeah, <Amanda> I just love that >> and so there's lots of very specific things like that, and then you've got some pretty spiffy things like lacewing larvae and surfeit fly larvae that, that they eat a lot of stuff but like their jam is aphids.

<Amanda> Okay.

Well, how about ladybug beetles, <Vicky> So... <Amanda> Do they, I mean, mostly eat things that we'd like not to have...?

<Vicky> Lady beetles are going to be out there preying, a lot of them are going to eat aphids.

<Amanda> That's positive.

>> and that's one of the that's one of the reasons why some of them were imported back in the day, but even our native ones they're a lot of them really like aphids.

<Amanda> Okay, and you know what, if you have aphids, you probably have a lot of aphids.

<Vicky> Absolutely.

So there's plenty there's plenty of prey.

<Amanda> Okay, okay.

Goodness gracious.

We've talked about so much I'm just so glad y'all are with me today.

This has been such fun.

Terasa, Thank you so much for getting the questions together for us.

You do such a good job and it makes it so interesting because we have a variety of things to talk about.

<Terasa> It is really an honor to be part of the show and I just assemble all the things.

It's our viewers and supporters and other Extension agents that get all the questions to us.

<Amanda>-and we thank y'all for being here.

I loved having y'all here.

Hope you all come back.

<Mary> Definitely.

<Rob> Absolutely.

<Vicky> Thanks for having us <Amanda> Well, and we hope you'll join us next time too.

Right here for Making it Grow.

Night, night.

♪ ♪ ♪ Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina is a cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture to help consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

The Boyd Foundation supporting outdoor recreational opportunities, the appreciation of wildlife, educational programs and enhancing the quality of life in Columbia, South Carolina and the Midlands at large.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina.

Family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.