Just ahead on American Black Journal, young people and religion.

Today our year-long series on the Black church in Detroit looks at the younger generation and their spirituality.

We have an intergenerational mix of ministers here to talk about faith among millennials plus BridgeDetroit's Orlando Bailey joins me for this special episode.

Stay right there, American Black Journal starts now.

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♪♪ Welcome to American Black Journal.

I'm Stephen Henderson and as always, I'm glad you've joined us.

We are continuing our year-long series on the Black church in Detroit, which is produced in partnership with the Ecumenical Theological Seminary and the Charles H. Wright Museum of African-American History.

Today, we're looking at faith among young African Americans.

A study by the Pew Research Center found this group is less religious and less engaged in predominantly Black churches than older generations were.

We teamed up with BridgeDetroit for this special report.

And joining me now is BridgeDetroit's Engagement Director, Orlando Bailey, Orlando always great to have you here on American Black Journal.

It is indeed always a pleasure.

How you doing Stephen?

I'm good.

So I wanna start with your personal sort of story here.

You are a millennial African-American, you grew up in a church though.

I mean, literally grew up in a church.

So you've had kind of a front row seat to this issue, the whole idea of how millennials will internalize and embrace the history and the legacy of religious practice and religious joy in the African-American community.

Tell me what that's been like for you.

It's really been an experience as someone I would, I would say I'm probably a little bit more of an elder millennial, so I still know, you know, what it means to have gone outside and played all day and drank from the water hose and things like that.

And to see the advent of technology and cell phones and the information aids come into our lives the way that it did it, it brought about, you know, a different kind of feeling for some of my peers who have been younger to whereas I was told that's just the way it is to a lot of my questions, a lot of how, a lot of my rigorous questions and even as a young adult, some of my peers that's just not good enough, right?

And so this trend that we're seeing of young, younger folks being, you know, less religious or even not as involved in the church I think goes to some of those unanswered questions that so many of us have in addition to the access to information that tries to dispel what we're taught in our Christian faith and in the Black church growing up.

And so if the Black church doesn't put out as much information as the detractors, then we may continue to see this trend.

Yeah, so I wonder if you can give us an assessment of how you think young African-Americans are doing embracing the religious history and legacy of our community.

Is the Black church in good hands with millennials?

I think so.

I think that there is a remnant of young folks who came up in church, who are interested in carrying on the mantle.

We talk about the transfer of mantle in the Black church in Christianity between the Prophet Elijah and Elisha.

And we're seeing that transference happen all over the city of Detroit where older pastors are retiring and younger folks are stepping in.

I do think that we are trending in the right direction and I am seeing the Black church sort of return to some of its roots in community, wanting to remain and become, a north star and bedrock in the communities that they are housed in here in the city.

So I do think that we're in good hands, but I do think we're in a transition period and sometimes transition is a little bit difficult.

Yeah, so you had a really interesting conversation about this, I wanna get to that.

Tell us who you talked to and what you talked about.

Yeah, so I talked to Minister Mikiah keener, she is a 23-year-old associate minister on staff at Triumph Church, one of the fastest growing churches in the region headed by Pastor Solomon Kinloch.

She has a whopping 70,000 followers across her social media platforms.

And she is simply doing our best to spread the good news, leveraging technology, social media, and all of the tools that it has to offer to reach as many people as she can.

It was a really, really interesting conversation.

We talked about this question of why younger people aren't as religious or as engaged in the Black church, but I also had the opportunity to talk to her about the patriarchal nature of the Black church and its treatment toward women and how, what her experience has been as a young woman in ministry.

STEPHEN: Well, let's take a look.

We are so amazed by everything that you are doing.

You're a ministry influencer, like I said, with over 70,000 followers.

Whew!

So young, how did you know that church and ministry was what you wanted to do?

Oh my goodness, so first of all, let me just say, when I accepted the call to ministry in my senior year of high school and before that, the church was not my thing, ministry was not my thing at all.

So I'm a first-generation preacher.

This was all new to me, but I had a very, very, very close friend who invited me to try and church one day.

And she wanted me to just come check out the service with Pastor Kinloch and I went, and on the first Sunday I went he was teaching a message about people serving in church and how everyone should make a contribution, not monetary, but you know, with your services, your gift, your time.

And so that message really struck me and it just convicted me to do more and to be a part of something bigger than myself.

And from that moment on, I was able to kind of identify, you know, kind of what my calling was and that was in September of 2015 and ever since then, I said, yes, and I've been doing it, so.

(speaker laughing) So tell us really quickly, how did you manage to get up to 70,000 followers?

What exactly are you doing?

Oh my God, people ask me that question all the time Orlando, and honest to God, the only answer that I'm always able to give is just being authentic.

I just, anytime I go live, anytime I jumped in front of the camera, I just make a vow to be myself.

I don't try to come out portraying someone that I'm not.

And I think that more than anything, people were attracted to my authenticity.

And I think that that's what has been keeping me, you know, able to last for such a long time.

So I'm very grateful.

Yeah, you started so young.

I wanna talk to you a little bit about some findings that the Pew Center found.

They did a study of faith amongst Black Americans and one of the findings is that younger Black Americans are less likely to have grown up in church or particularly the Black church.

You are a minister in one of the blackest cities, in the blackest city (speaker laughing) in America, tell us what you are seeing.

So, I definitely am seeing a lot of people that look like me in church.

Now, I'll be honest, there are people that look like me that are leaving church, but I do wanna come in and highlight those that are sticking to church, those that are coming to church.

And I think the biggest thing behind it is the community that the church is creating to make sure that people that come from different ethnic backgrounds or minorities are able to come in and are able to be able to be themselves and community.

Not only with communities that look like us, but communities that are developing diversity as well.

So I think that that's really important.

Just being able to establish healthy communities for people to be a part of when they come to church.

Absolutely, one of the things that you said though, is that there are people who look like you, Black folks who look like you, who are around your age, or maybe a little bit older or a little bit younger are leaving the church.

Do you have any idea as to why that has happened?

You're not what Orlando, to be honest, I think that, I think that we have mastered church service but we haven't mastered church systems.

So we're doing service really great.

We're killing service, we're killing praise and worship.

We're killing the choir, we're killing music but we have to have systems in place just as any other business, just as McDonald's has a system, just as Starbucks as a system, just as Amazon has a system, I think that the church has to work on implementing good systems and strategies to keep people not only coming back on just Sunday or just Wednesday for Bible study, but to keep them feeling like they're connected on a day-to-day basis.

So I definitely think that that is something that not just the Black church, but that the church as a whole has to work on to make sure that people feel connected every day, rather than just on Sunday.

For anything to last, you do need a strong infrastructure.

Absolutely.

All right, so let me ask you this question.

How are you engaging younger folks in ministry and in your ministry?

Tell me what is working.

Tell me what hasn't been working.

Social media is my favorite tool in the world right now.

I love the fact that I'm able to reach someone on (indistinct) and someone in India in one post.

And I don't take it lightly.

I don't take digital discipleship lightly.

I don't take digital worship lightly.

I think that that is one of the fastest growing tools right now.

And so I've just been trying to strategize with it the best way that I can, whether it's a Facebook post or me going live on Instagram, whether it's me just putting out a few tweets here and there on Twitter, creating a TikTok video, whatever it is that I can, I'm doing texts automation, email lists, everything that I can do to reach people on a national and global basis using social media and the internet.

That's one of the things that I have my hands in right now and that's one of the things that I think that every leader should be doing right now, because it's one thing that almost everyone has in common it's social media.

So I think that social media is playing a big part in church right now.

What hasn't been working?

Whew, what hasn't been working?

That's a great question.

You know, I think that what hasn't been working is not being able to adapt to the change.

I think that the church was already on its way to take over digitally but I think that COVID kind of pushed us into it before we were ready.

And I think that what happened was that a lot of leaders were not able to find the right rhythm and so they're doing it and they're trying to figure out why it's not working, but that goes back to creating those systems, even online systems that we have to be able to build as a church to make sure that people are staying engaged, because I don't know about you, but I know for me, I'm gonna be honest, when church first started online back in March of last year, I was doing good for that first month and in April, I was like, miss one service, miss the second service, looked up and I missed like four different services and you know, that has a lot to do with me on one end but it has a lot to do with systems on another end as well again, to make sure that we are a part of a community, whether it be physical or online, we have to make sure that a community is set in place for us as believers.

Yeah, tell us what you're seeing at Triumph, one of the fastest growing churches in the region, in the blackest city in America.

What is the demographic makeup of Triumph church?

And I hear that there are a lot of young people that attend Triumph.

How are you attracting and retaining them?

Oh my gosh, I think that, let me just say this.

Whenever I hear that young people are leaving church, it's hard for me to believe because when I look at Triumph church and I look around at every service, every campus, and I see so many young people not just coming in, but serving, young people serving on our ministry team, on media, working with our children, working with our youth, working in the offices, it's just a reminder that young people do love God and that young people do wanna be a part of a community.

And one of the things that I love about Pastor Kinloch is that he opens the door for people to come in and be a part of something that is bigger than themselves.

And I think that's something that any great leader has the knowledge of doing it's opening up doors and creating spaces where we can come in and not just consume, but contribute as well.

So that's definitely one of the things that I love about triumph is that young people have a chance at every area of ministry to be a contributor and not just a consumer.

You are a young woman in ministry and women in ministry leadership in Black churches have had a tough go historically 'cause of the patriarchal nature of the Black church.

How are you faring in 2021?

You know what, when I first went into ministry, my pastor used to always talk about exactly what you just said and even though I heard him out, I didn't necessarily believe it all the way until I started facing a challenge, facing challenges or doors that were closed on me because I was a woman in ministry.

And so I didn't know if it was all the way true back then, but I definitely believe it now and one of the things that I really, really hope that the church is able to do not even in the future, but right now, is create spaces for women to be able to optimize in their roles, in their callings in church leadership.

I don't believe that God has asked women to come in and just to sit on the side and be quiet.

That is not my belief.

I believe that every individual man and woman has a unique gift, a unique calling.

And I do believe that women should be able to utilize their gifts in the same way as men in church roles.

The future of Third New Hope Baptist Church in Detroit was passed from one generation to the next when Dr. E.L.

Branch stepped down after 42 years as senior pastor, he installed his successor, Pastor QuanTez Pressley, who's a millennial and a long time protege.

I spoke with both men about young people in the Black church.

So Dr.

Branch, I'm gonna start with you.

You made a decision to pass along the mantle of your church, the responsibility of your church to Pastor Pressley, which means you obviously have faith in him as an individual to lead that institution into the future.

But talk about how that decision fits into this larger question of young people, young African-Americans and their relationship to the church.

What's your level of faith in the ability and even the interest of young African-Americans to continue this history and legacy in our community?

Well, I have lots of faith in that because one of the things about it is that I remember so well being that young person you know (speaker laughing) and coming along and you want opportunity, you want freedom, you want a chance to come into your own and so I feel that many of the young people who are coming along now are in the same, in the same position and had not someone handed it off to me and baited me forward, you know, who knows where we would be?

So, I think that that's what is about the whole cycle is very, very important and to have someone of the caliber of Pastor Pressley that we could partner with in ministry, it was just dynamic in and of itself.

And so I have plenty of hopes for a bright, bright future for the church in general but for the ministry that we have been a part of for such a long time in particular.

So I'm just delighted and continue to celebrate where all of this is headed.

Yeah, yeah.

So, Pastor Presley, you have been doing this in some form since you were a teenager.

So you never really had doubt, I guess, about the future of the Black church or it's in importance, but talk to me about where that comes from for you, where the interest comes from and then where the desire for responsibility comes from.

Well, yeah, thank you for that.

And I don't know about the say I haven't had any doubts 'cause from my experience about that, Father in the biblical texts says, I believe but help now my unbelief, because there is, have been phases in my life where I really wonder whether or not the value or relevancy of the church will persist even for my generation.

And so that period was really around my college years and fascinating enough, it was at that time that I really began to ask some tough questions of the text.

And one of those was I, I take seriously my call of being a follower of Jesus Christ.

And I was troubled by the fact that from the age of 12 to the age of 30, there is no narrative of Christ' life and so I found it very difficult to figure out how Christ would have been in those youth and young adult years with no narrative and story.

And it was at that time that I noted that that may be the lesson of the text, that each person deserves those 18 missing years, if you will, those years of wandering and exploring to get a good sense of yourself and your values so that once you get of age, you are convicted by your beliefs and your principles and are able to hold on to them tightly.

And so I think that that has helped, you know, being raised in a Christian household, being in the church all of my life, I have seen both up close and afar of the benefits of having a faith community to undergird you, to pray for you and to be supportive.

And I think that even for the millennial generation, this sense of community is a yearning and so if the church can continue to build upon that sense of community, I think that even for this generation, the church will still have meaningful impact in the lives of many people.

Hmm, so Dr.

Branch, tell us about the church that you have left for Pastor Pressley and some of the challenges that you might identify there in terms of getting more young people interested and involved in the congregation and in the very idea of church, where does all of that stand at your church?

Well, Third New Hope has been a vibrant church, you know, through the years I went, I started there in 1977, so it's been a while.

(speakers laughing) Oh, a little bit.

(Stephen laughing) Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so we watched the median age of our congregation as we were growing hang around my age.

You know, when I was, I started at 23 years old, so a large number of our members in our first five years were between 25 and 30 years old.

So we had a major young church at that time, but I watched that church begin to age with me.

Now we were blessed because our children during that time was also being reared in into the church.

So we started having babies and children were born right there and then of course, bringing in other people as well, then watching the church, you know, grow from just a few under 25 to, into the thousands was just amazing over those years and keeping it a vibrant church really did mean keeping a good number of young people involved and active and all of the rest.

So what we have come to it upon my retirement, we would just add another of those crossroads where, hey, you know, you either take that leap or (speakers laughing) or you don't, you know, and so we were just blessed to be able to just pass the baton and to just remain hopeful and anticipate, a continuous growth and development of a vibrant church, which it has continued to be even during a pandemic, you know?

So we are very proud of where Third New Hope he is.

Yeah.

So Pastor Pressley, you're inheriting all of this.

Give me a sense of the role that a young African-Americans are playing at Third New Hope now, what you're walking sort of with at this point but then what your hope is for the future and perhaps enhancing that role and that engagement.

Well, yeah, upon becoming a lead pastor here at Third New Hope Baptist Church, I pastored for 10 weeks before we entered into a global pandemic that forced all ministries to kind of engage with technology and a digital platform in order to do meaningful ministry and in that way, really leaning upon our youth and our young adults to be able to lead that charge has been invaluable.

And so, as we continue to move forward, I think that that is yet the function and the focus of our ministry is to ensure that we are mission-driven, that we give people an opportunity to make a meaningful difference and not only in their personal lives individually, but in the communities in which we serve.

And I think that that really is the level that millennials and gen-Zers are looking for, they want to be able to see a meaningful and significant difference in the communities in which these churches reside so that we know that we are making an impact in the lives of real individuals.

And so, as we move forward, you know, I think one of the things that I have to continue to remind myself of, is I'm a pastor who's a millennial, but I don't lead a millennial church because the large majority of our membership is much older than I am but that is one of the challenges of ministry is that as a organization, we have to deal with many demographics and be able to hold them all at the same time.

And so I think even this conversation models that what we are attempting to do at Third New Hope which to be intergenerational in our ministry offerings, to make sure that everyone has a space and a place to feel their God connection.

That is gonna do it for us this week.

Thanks for watching, our guests had a lot more to say about young adults in the Black church, and you can watch the extended versions of those conversations at americanblackjournal.org.

And BridgeDetroit looks forward to more specialty reports with American Black Journal on topics that matter to the African-American community.

Check us out at bridgedetroit.com.

Let us know what's on your mind.

You can connect with us on Facebook and Twitter as always, take care and we'll see you next time.

♪♪ Announcer 1: From Delta Faucets to Behr Paint Masco Corporation is proud to deliver products that enhance the way consumers all over the world experience and enjoy their living spaces.

Masco, serving Michigan communities since 1929.

Announcer 2: Support also provided by the Cynthia and Edsel Ford Fund for Journalism at Detroit Public TV.

Announcer 1: The DTE Foundation proudly supports 50 years of American Black Journal in covering African-American history, culture and politics.

The DTE Foundation and American Black Journal, partners in presenting African-American perspectives about our communities and in our world.

Announcer 2: Also brought to you by AAA, Nissan Foundation, Ally, Impact at Home, UAW Solidarity Forever, and viewers like you.

Thank you.