- [Presenter] Funding for this program was provided by: - [Announcer] Chattanooga Funeral Home, Crematory & Florist, dedicated to helping you celebrate your life or the life of a loved one, for over 85 years.

Chattanooga Funeral Home believes that each funeral should be as unique and memorable as the life being honored.

- [Presenter] This program is also made possible by support from viewers like you.

Thank you!

- [Alison] This week, I sit down with a man who made history in Chattanooga's Police Department.

- But I was the first Black detective in 1968, August the first, four days later, Dr. King got killed in Memphis.

- What impact did it have on your role after his death?

- Well, I try to keep focus and live by his tradition.

Stay involved and as John Lewis, Representative John Lewis said, "Get in trouble, but get in good trouble."

I live by that.

- [Alison] Join me as I talk with retired Police Detective, Napoleon, Donut, Williams, coming up next on "The A List."

(upbeat music) If you live in Chattanooga you might be familiar with the name, Napoleon Williams, or as he is affectionately known in the community, Donut.

In 1968, Doughnut made history as the first African-American detective in the Chattanooga Police Department where he spent a lengthy distinguished career.

Though he is now retired he is still heavily active in his community and a trusted voice in matters of law enforcement.

I had the opportunity to sit down with Donut to learn about how this former Howard High football player ended up making Chattanooga history.

Well, Mr. Donut.

- Yes.

- Donut, Napoleon, the man who answers to many names, welcome to "The A List."

- Yes.

Okay, my pleasure.

- I'm so happy to finally meet you and be able to talk about what I know is an incredible life and career here in Chattanooga.

- Oh yes, I've been, I had a life and a career, both (chuckling).

- Well, let's start with your life.

Tell me about growing up here.

- Oh god, I grew up in south Chattanooga, a place called Long Street, it's right down from Howard High School.

2516 Long Street, and in the hood, but they call it, the hood, now, you know, not too many people on my street was educated and been able to go to college.

I can think of two people that went on to college and went to Tennessee State, two females, and then I guess I'm the next one because I graduated from UTC in 1978.

And, but that neighborhood, people, you know, we walked to school, wasn't no yellow buses then, so everybody knew everybody.

The church that I belong to, Union Hill, it's what five doors up the street.

My daddy was the deacon and janitor.

We had to go to church every Sunday, three times on Sunday, so that was it, that was it.

Like I said, and then when they built Howard High School, I was one block from it, up the hill to Market Street and I watched 'em build it.

- You watched them build Howard High School?

- Yes, at the end that was Paul's home up there and then they built Howard High School.

So Paul's home's gone, but Howard High's still there.

- It is still there.

- Yes.

- And I understand that that is where you got your infamous nickname, Doughnut.

- Howard High School, I started there, first I went to Calvin Donaldson in the 7th grade, 8th grade, and Howard opened up in 1954 and I went there in the 9th grade and I graduated 1958.

And I was in a band, a lot of people don't know, I started off in the band, Irvin Overton, and a lot of more names in the community, we was in a band and we both started playing football and we played football.

I graduated with Irvin Overton in '59.

If you don't know Irvin, Irvin is a guy that lived in Lincoln Park, his family.

He ended up being a Senior Vice Principal earlier, Black history, I do Black history every year, and that's one of the guys I always feature.

We have people that know you could be born in the hood, but the hood ain't born in you.

- Well, and you went to school with a lot of people.

- Jesse Jackson played football.

- Who had a lot of recognition.

- Yes, Jesse Jackson.

Jesse Jackson played football with a school in Greenville, South Carolina, and the name of the school was Sterling High.

And this guy was so cocky, he would, they would pull that old bus up and he would throw his jersey out the window and said, "Look at it now 'cause you ain't gonna see it tonight."

And then we played over there, the old, I guess it's CS School there on 3rd street, where Riverside used to be, that where we played our games and we tried to just take him and just put him in early, and try to kid him.

(laughing) But we talk about it, and the funny thing you mentioned that, I'm at a National Police Convention in New Orleans and he was the guest speaker.

- Jesse Jackson was?

- And the guy, one of them chiefs there that I knew from that area, he said, "I saw Doughnut down from Chattanooga," he said, "Wait a minute, don't tell me he from Howard High," and we laughed about that, man.

And I told him about his number, his school, and all that.

He said, "That's enough, I don't need to know no more," and we laughed about that, yeah.

- Now, why did your football coach name you, Doughnut?

- Fred White, I'm gonna tell you what happened.

I weighed 180 pound when I first went out there, wet, two overcoats on, and they was running over me like "A hole in a donut," he said, and it stuck.

Fred White, one of the (indistinct) coach, it stuck.

And everybody in the nation know me by that name, Donut Williams.

- You're still, Donut.

- Still, Donut, yeah.

- Now I know you went to school with some other famous people who you actually honored right before COVID hit.

And that was Fred Cash and Sam Gooden.

- Yes, oh gosh.

After they was in Chicago, and tour all over the world, those guys came back and retired and came back to Chattanooga.

And we had opportunity, I went to my Bishop, Kevin Adams, to honor them.

We honored 'em at Olivet Baptist Church and that was a great thing.

- And most people would know them now as The Impressions.

- That's right, The Impressions.

- Which really.

- Yeah.

- When you think about the songs that they wrote and performed during the '50s and '60s- - "Keep On Pushing."

(indistinct) - "It's All Right."

- People, yeah, that's all, listen at you.

- I got it, I, yeah.

- It's all right, yeah.

- I grew up on these songs too.

- Okay, okay.

- You know they were anthems for your generation- - Right.

- And passed down, I think, to my generation as a reminder of what can be accomplished.

- Right.

Well, that was in 1958, '57, and like I told you they back here in the city, they live back here and then everybody know 'em.

Just like Dr. Leroy Key, that was a gentleman that introduced me to Dr. Martin Luther King.

That's the highlight of my life right there.

- Tell me about that meeting.

- Oh god, I had a scholarship to go play football at Fort Valley State.

I go down there, I made the football team and stayed there two weeks, but I just didn't like it so I know Roy Keith was at Morehouse, he's playing football, swimming thing, he just did it all, and he was, we knew each other from Chattanooga, he played football there, at Howard.

And he was the President of Student Association there, at Morehouse, and when I got there he told the coach said, "That's my friend, Donut, from Chattanooga," and say, "He wants to come out for the football team."

And the coach let me come out and I went out there, I just went crazy, I just, I took me a position, I made the team, but then they had me no dormitories.

So Roy said, "You come here and stay with me," in his dormitory.

And then one day we was, had got through practice, he said, "Look, I want you to meet me at the Student Center."

Like I say, he was the President of the Student Association.

So I went up to the Student Association, I didn't know who I was gonna meet, so there was Dr. King.

Now you got to remember Dr. King came to Chattanooga and spoke at First Baptist Church in the '50s, and Roy told Dr. King, he says, "That's Donut from Chattanooga, he's my homeboy."

He said, "Donut?"

And then he said, "You know I liked to have been a resident of Chattanooga, but the church was beautiful, and I liked the congregation."

He said, "I liked to have been a resident there."

Could you imagine Dr. King in Chattanooga, in the '50s.

Whew, would've been something.

Well, anyway, we met and we talked, and then Roy said, "Here's a guy I want you to meet from Detroit, he's not my roommate, but we kick it together."

I said, "Who bro?"

He said, "This is Cecil Franklin," Aretha Franklin's brother.

(laughing) Could you imagine, at one time, and that's a highlight.

And I live by Dr. King's, some of his beliefs and stuff that he believe in.

Like voter's registration.

I pushed that through this community about if you don't speak up you're not gonna get nothing, you got to speak up and speak out if you believe in yourself.

And I just believe in, but that was a highlight, Dr. Martin Luther King.

- What did it mean to you knowing that it was after his assassination that you first got access, that you became so many firsts in this community in terms of access to- - Okay.

- To law enforcement, the police department, on so many levels.

- I believe you've been in my archives or something.

(laughing) 1968, let's go back, '64 when I went on the police department, there was six guys, Booker Turner and Rev Kelly, they had six of us at one time.

Napoleon William, Ralph Cochran, Frank Newson, Sonny Bess, James Wilkes, and a guy named, (indistinct).

They would take me out of uniform every time they have a shooting, or a homicide, a murder, because I knew the community.

And within, if they had a shootin', I'm not being cocky, but in few hours, I'll go find 'em and bring 'em back and get a statement.

So I did this for a few months I guess the commissioner turned and see it and said, "If he doing the work over here, let's just," you got to realize the years now, '64, '65, '66, '68, integration went, what you call 100% then, But I was the first Black detective in 1968, August the 1st.

Four days later, Dr. King got killed in Memphis, my friend that I met in Memphis, never forget that.

- What impact did it have on your role after his death?

- Well, I try to keep focus and live by his tradition, stay involved.

And as John Lewis, Representative John Lewis said, "Get in trouble, but get in good trouble," I live by that.

- [Announcer] The example set by Dr. King was an indelible reminder to Donut of how to approach his own work moving forward.

Though he met some resistance upon joining the force in 1964 he quickly distinguished himself by solving two armed robberies on his very first day.

Four years later he made history as Chattanooga's first African-American detective, but it all started with a dream he'd had since childhood.

So when did you know you wanted to go into law enforcement?

- Oh god, that's funny to think, a lot of people don't ask me that, thank you.

Right on Long Street, where I was born, there was a grocery store on that corner.

This police, White policemen would come by at least twice a week, especially on (indistinct) would go in and get 'em a Coca-Cola.

And my job was, I lived next door, my job was to take the drinks and put 'em in their cart, like Double-Cola's, see you don't remember Double-Cola.

- I remember Double-Cola.

- And Nehi's and all that.

- Grape Nehi was my favorite drink.

My grandfather- - I know them grape.

- He ran a bar- - And orange.

- Down in Montgomery, Alabama, and that's it, Grape Nehi was everything I drank.

- That was the drink.

So you put the drink bottles in the right case, Double-Cola's and Coca-Cola.

That was my job.

And that guy owned the store, but always get me, I lived next door, they called me, Poli, that's what he call me, I don't know how he got that name.

But this policeman, he called me Poli, so I would walk 'em out to the car.

I guess about eight or nine years old and one day he cut the siren on for me.

I never forgot that.

- Now you were not just the first African-American detective, you also became the first African-American Chief of Police when you were at Chattanooga State.

- Right.

- There's a lot of firsts.

You were paving the road- - Oh yeah.

- For a lot of people.

- I were, and I set up that department out there, I had eight officers, 12, the security guard, and I was there 17 years, but can I just back up, out of that six that got hired there, I gonna spin it, six that got hired in 1964, two of us made history, Ralph Cochran, first Black Chief of Police and I'm the first Black detective.

I made everything before they made it and for the records, Chief Cochran will go down as one of the best chief we ever had.

He got that department, put everybody in positions that you were somebody.

Yeah, he made sure that we, went out in a neighborhood and find people that look like us, that want to be policemans, and I tell this right now, until they realize that you got to get polices from Chattanooga, Tennessee, whether they went to Hixson High, City High, Howard, Brainerd, that look like us, live in your neighborhood, work in your neighborhood.

- And what do you see today that gives you hope that things are different?

Or are they different?

- Well, I just hope.

I ain't gonna give up.

It's sad.

- What makes you most sad?

- When the Chief of Police get on TV, we got a murderer that ain't been solved, that's a year old, you supposed to solve murder cases in 24 hours.

You will have people know the city, all you gotta do is find out their background, who their relatives are, who their friends are, that's what you set up, and then you go from there.

You got any enemies I need to know that.

Do you go to church?

Where you work at?

Go down and interview everyone on his job.

You got any enemies there?

And you work from there.

But it don't make sense to be able to have cases backed up not when you got officers in the police department.

This fool would be living here, didn't know how to get to this city, around this city to talk to people.

See, we was born here, everybody in my group, we born here so you know the city.

You knew how to move.

- People trusted you though?

- Oh yeah.

- So how can the officers on the force today build and breed the same trust that you felt so many years ago?

- What they got to do is get some officers, that was born in Chattanooga, live in Chattanooga, went to school in Chattanooga, live in the community, while this crime is happening and build up trust with people.

When people trust you they'll tell you something.

- When you look back on your career what are you most proud of?

- Well, I wish that we would ever get those problems, with the federal government had money to send you to get your education in law enforcement, that's how I got to go to Cleveland State, free money, criminal justice at UTC, criminal justice, for our government had money, but I want to make this proposal to the new mayor, Tim Kelly.

Chattanooga State, where I was there for 17 years, if a kid wanna be a fireman, not Black only now, whether you're Black or White, if you wanna be a fireman, or a policeman, you go to Chattanooga State for two years at 18, 19, 20, 21, then you'd be a policeman.

We put some in action, I wanna see some actions, 'cause this city, somebody got their knee on this city, I hate to put it like that and I think you would get that knee off of somebody.

Let's get this city moving.

We ain't got no Black businesses, no Black business in Chattanooga, we don't have Black shoe shop, tailor men shop, grocery stores, gas stations, all our Black businesses are gone.

We got to renew that so people get out and communicate.

That's another way we used to get information, go by a Black business.

And another way that we talked about Black policemans in the community, get out there and call and walk up here and see Mr. Jones on the porch, him and his wife sitting on the front porch.

You get outta the car and say, "Hey, Mr. Jones, how you feeling today?"

We did that 'cause you know everybody in the neighborhood.

"How your son, he in college?"

"Yeah, that old boy in college, he's doing good."

But Tim don't ask about him, it makes their day.

- I'm just wondering if there's anywhere in the city you can go without somebody recognizing you?

- No, no, no.

- So how do you handle it?

How do you handle not only that celebrity, but the responsibility of being a public figure in a city where people not just respect you, and trust you, but rely on you?

- Oh god, well people know me 'cause they see me on TV, for years, solving cases.

They see that name, Napoleon Williams, Donut, but they never seen me, but I was in Wally's a few weeks ago, I eat breakfast up there pretty regular, and a guy heard my, some lady said, "That's Donut," this White lady.

He said, "Yeah," oh, this guy say, "Yeah, I knew him, my daddy knew him."

And he come and introduced hisself and told me about the incident and I remembered it.

Somebody had stole his TV.

And I told him that I believe it's in the pawn shop.

He said, "Well, how you know that?"

I said, "Cause we recovered some more," but we found his TV and he never forgot that.

But it's, people just know me and I network with people.

I have time to say, "Good morning, good afternoon," it pays out.

You'd be surprised if you take just one minute and said, "Good morning, how ya doing," and when you're a Christian it's easy.

- Well, the good news is anybody who may not know you knows you now.

- Oh yeah.

(laughing) - And with that, Mr. Donut- - Yes.

- Napoleon, Mr. Williams, chief, whatever you're called- - Whatever you call me.

- I'm just glad you answered and thank you for being on "The A List."

- It was my pleasure.

(upbeat music) - [Announcer] Get on-demand access to even more of the shows you love with WTCI Passport on the PBS Video App, download it today.

- [Presenter] Funding for this program was provided by: - [Announcer] Chattanooga Funeral Home, Crematory & Florist, dedicated to helping you celebrate your life or the life of a loved one for over 85 years.

Chattanooga Funeral Home believes that each funeral should be as unique and memorable as the life being honored.

- [Presenter] This program is also made possible by support from viewers like you.

Thank you!