(upbeat music) - [Advertiser] This is "Carolina Business Review."

Major support provided by Colonial Life, providing benefits to employees to help them protect their families, their finances, and their futures.

High Point University, the Premier Life Skills University, focused on preparing students for the world as it is going to be.

Sonoco, a global manufacturer of consumer and industrial packaging products and services with more than 300 operations in 35 countries.

- What is the difference between what to worry about around this economy and what is hyperbole, and what is good news beyond these recession worries?

Welcome again to the most widely watched program on Carolina business, policy, and public affairs seen across the Carolinas, for more than 30 years now.

I'm Chris William.

And we will unpack during this holiday season really what's worth knowing and what's worth not worrying about.

And later on, South Carolina's Lieutenant Governor, Pamela Evette, joins us.

Stay with US.

- [Advertiser] Major funding also by Blue Cross Blue Shield of South Carolina, an independent licensee of the Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association.

And Martin Marietta, a leading provider of natural resource-based building materials, providing the foundation on which our communities improve and grow.

(upbeat music) On this edition of "Carolina Business Review," Tony Mecia from The Charlotte Ledger, Lisa Brown, economic and urban development of Rock Hill.

And special guest Pamela Evette, South Carolina's Lieutenant Governor.

(dramatic music) - Hello, welcome again to our program.

Lisa, glad to have you.

Tony, glad to have you back.

We're gonna start with you, Mr. Mecia.

It seems like, and this is, I have no scientific evidence of that, Tony, but in places like Charlotte, of course, where you are headquartered, and Raleigh's the same way I would guess, Charleston's the same way, Greenville, South Carolina, this idea that commuting now is busier than it was pre COVID.

And it seems like there are many more cars on the road.

Congestion is higher in some of these core urban markets.

Two questions.

Is that true?

Do you get a sense of that?

And the second thing is, but the pattern feels different.

Is that true?

- Yeah, I actually looked at this in a recent episode, in a recent newsletter that we had.

And looking at the data, I can tell you, you know, the number of cars after COVID came back in about 2021.

And the most recent census data from 2022 shows that actually the commute times are still lower in a lot of these urban areas like Charlotte, like Raleigh.

It was up a little bit in Columbia.

But I think what's happening is you have a lot of people who are working from home now that weren't before, but you do have some of these cross migration patterns.

And it's anecdotally, in some cases it does feel worse, but it's kinda all over the place, you know.

And then a lot of places, Mondays and Fridays are almost like weekends.

You have people working hybrid schedules, working from home.

So those are easier.

But then you have maybe cross town commuting patterns that are a little more difficult.

So it's hard to know exactly.

And it differs from market to market, but the numbers are still showing that the actual commute times are lower in a lot of these markets as of 2022.

And sometimes it doesn't always feel that way.

Maybe we need a little better data.

- Yeah, is that a personal effect that you feel, Lisa, or do you notice that in Rock Hill, in your county?

- Yeah, I think you can see it sometimes, especially trying to get up 77 and get towards the Charlotte area.

I think a lot of our residents have made it pretty clear that that commute to Charlotte is something that gets longer and more difficult every consecutive year.

So definitely something that we're using to our advantage from an economic development standpoint.

- Tony, and I'm sorry, Lisa, do you think we're in a permanent four day work week now of some sort?

- A lot of times it feels that way.

You know, as you know, there's hope from a lot of employers that'll eventually get back to more normal.

They want that collaboration, they want that mentorship that they say you just can't get remotely.

I think we're inching that way.

But, you know, the data's still showing that in a lot of these downtowns, they have not recovered, that the foot traffic is not there.

In Charlotte, I know it's about 75% of what it was in 2019.

That's 'cause you have a lot of these big employers, you know, who don't require their workers to be in five days a week.

Maybe it's three days a week.

And I think you're seeing that in a lot of cities.

You're seeing that in the Carolinas.

Charlotte's not alone, you know, the triangle's not alone.

This is going on all over the place.

I think it's gonna take a little while, frankly, to recover.

And you're seeing a lot of that in the office market, in commercial real estate development.

It's very hard to build new office now, just 'cause there's so much uncertainty about how long that recovery's gonna take.

- Let me take the term real estate development, and let's talk about industrial development, Lisa, because it's hard to imagine a better time, and I don't mean just for the Palmetto State, but the Tar Heel State, that a billion dollar project, an announcement of a billion dollar project was something.

But now there have been multiple billion dollar projects, and in fact in North Carolina, Toyota battery just announced a close to $14 billion project.

So how good is good news, and do you see the cost of funds or interest rates going up?

Is this going to be a pretty dramatic drag on any more of those coming down the pike anytime soon?

- Yeah, those are some great questions.

I think the Inflation Reduction Act, and the reshoring of a lot of our green manufacturing in the Greenbelt that South Carolina and North Carolina are in, are definitely bringing a lot of activity and prospect.

I do think that interest rates in the capital markets are slowing things down a bit.

How long that will be is still to be determined.

But so many businesses and developers have put so much money into the ground already, they're just trying to figure out how to make these projects feasible in the shorter time.

- Yeah, same question, Tony.

What do you think, economic development, is this gonna come to a screeching halt, because it's been so spectacular?

- Yeah, it's been pretty strong.

I mean, it's hard to imagine it's slowing down.

I mean, the story that the economic developers love to tell is that compared to the rest of the country, the Carolinas are in a lot better shape.

You know, we're a desirable place.

People are moving here.

We're growing.

That creates some problems, of course.

But it's, in many ways, a good problem to have.

So it's hard to imagine, you know, maybe things get delayed, it's hard to imagine everything grinding to a halt.

- How about jobs, Lisa?

Do you think Rock Hill, York County, and I don't mean just York County or just the Charlotte region, but are you finding some of your colleagues across the state that you interact with are having these issues around jobs?

And I know we've been talking about this for actually years, but are there, and maybe we should ask the lieutenant governor this when she comes on, but are there some solutions about this?

- Yeah, and I think that staff and workforce is the number one question that we get from most of the prospects, because that's the reality.

If they're gonna put billions of dollars in investment, are there people there that have the skillsets that they need in order to take those jobs?

And fortunately, I think both the Carolinas have really strong community colleges that are willing to take a look at new industries and EV, and what kind of skillsets they need to offer, what kind of trainings they need to offer our workforce.

So then they're ready for these new jobs.

- Tony, let me ask you a one-off, and then we're gonna bring our guests in.

This is just specific to both states like to claim ownership of Carowinds.

I think if anybody's lived in the Carolinas anytime, you've been to Carowinds at some point.

And it literally sits on the state line, so it's halfway in both states.

Carowinds has consolidated power seemingly, and it looks like we've got another headquarters coming back to the Carolinas.

Is that accurate to say?

- Yeah, Cedar Fair, the owner of Carowinds and a bunch of other parks, you know, recently announced that it's merging with Six Flags, which is based in Texas, and they're putting the headquarters in Charlotte on the, obviously the North Carolina side of Carowinds off of 77.

So it's sort of really restoring- - Really, is that where it's gonna be on the North Carolina side?

- Well's, that's where they- - Or is that your speculation?

- Well, no, I mean it is, they're, well, and they haven't, let's just say their existing offices are in North Carolina.

But, you know, there's that line, I think, running down the middle of Carowinds, and so it's a, I guess that's a good win for both states.

- Okay, alright.

Our guest is a certified public accountant and a former business owner in one of the fastest growing small businesses in the country.

She was a business owner in the upstate of South Carolina, the Greenville Market, Greenville-Spartanburg market.

Now she is second in charge, so to speak, of the Palmetto State's executive branch.

She is the lieutenant governor of the State of South Carolina, the Honorable Pamela Evette.

Your Honor, welcome to the program.

Governor, thank you for being on our program.

Nice to see you.

- It's great to see you, Chris.

Thank you so much for having me.

- Governor, I wanna start with something that was, and I'm gonna use the term buried in the news cycle back in the summer, Bloomberg reported that there are six southern states.

They are North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee, and Texas.

And those states total, and I'm trying to get this right, those states total gross state product totaled up are greater than the northeast states addition to the gross national product.

So what Bloomberg said, and this is a report from Bloomberg, said that now the center of gravity for business and the wealth center of gravity is relocating to the south.

Number one, does that surprise you?

And number two, is that all good news?

- Well Chris, that is great news, and it doesn't surprise me, because here in South Carolina we continue to grow.

South Carolina's fingerprints, as I like to tell people, reach all across the globe.

Whether it's BMW producing more BMWs here in Spartanburg, South Carolina than anywhere in the world, or Lockheed Martin now building F-16 Block 70 fighter planes, or our 26 boat manufacturers building boats for the Prince of Qatar, South Carolina's reach is far and wide.

- Tony, question?

- Yeah, I just wanted to ask, you know, one of the things you've been involved in is trying to make South Carolina more competitive for small businesses, medium-sized businesses, regulatory reform.

As you travel throughout the state, what are you hearing from some of those businesses about what their needs are, what they would like to see change?

Obviously I know taxes are probably a big deal, but what are some of the other things you're hearing?

- Well Tony, what's happening here is what's happening everywhere, and, you know, I just came back from an economic trade mission in Germany, and it was interesting to see that their top three pain points are workforce, immigration, and energy.

And, you know, those are the same three things we've been talking about, not only here, but all across our nation.

Workforce has been a challenge.

We are blessed here in South Carolina to have the best technical colleges I would venture to say in the world, 'cause now I've been to Germany and did a deep dive on their technical colleges.

And we are really turning things around.

When Lockheed Martin came to South Carolina, I was at dinner with them, and they said, "Lieutenant Governor, what are we gonna do to get the workforce we need to build these F-16s?"

They paired up with our technical colleges, and we turned the first F-16s over to the generals of Bagram earlier this year.

Lockheed Martin was just impressed with the workforce our technical colleges could give out.

And so that's where we're gonna continue to put a lot of emphasis on, really schooling up South Carolinians to get in those jobs of tomorrow, to be the workforce that we need for our businesses to grow.

- [Chris] Lisa.

- It's so nice to see you and to have the opportunity.

I'm really interested to hear more about what you feel like we should be doing to support our small businesses in helping them grow and develop as things continue to evolve in the economy.

- So as I travel around the state, and being a small business owner myself, right, in growing that, regulation is what we find our small businesses need the most help with, making sure that we go in and take away all of those roadblocks, those speed bumps that stopped them from growth.

You know, that was something Governor McMaster did right when he became governor, is he went to his cabinets and said, "I want you to go through the regs, look at what is needless, and let's get rid of it, because we want our small businesses to be able to grow and flourish."

Here in South Carolina, we did a lot with our commerce department to put everything in one spot for our small businesses, 'cause they don't have the resources that our big businesses do.

So we wanna make sure they can move around South Carolina government with ease, and they don't have to go out and look for a lot of, you know, people to come in and help them maneuver through their day-to-day.

- Governor, let me go back to something you talked about.

As you firmly described, the automotive and aerospace cluster in South Carolina has been a very big win.

With this very strong headwind of the cost of capital, vis-a-vis rising interest rates, and I know you know this from being a business owner as well as a certified public accountant, it will slow business.

So, how do you mitigate that?

What are the conversations you're having with these large businesses, not just Lockheed Martin, BMW, et cetera, et cetera, but also the businesses that will be facing much increased capital cost, and a headwind that could slow the economy?

- So what we want to do, and what we've been doing here in South Carolina is to make, again, ease of operation.

We did the historic tax cuts last year.

We know that that helps them.

We've been looking at unemployment rates, and keeping them down, making sure that we get competitive in the insurance market, you know, as a business owner, and what I did, helping small businesses grow during my time in the private sector, those are big things that affect our bottom line.

Another big thing, Chris, is worrying about energy.

As I said earlier, you know, Germany is facing these problems.

We're facing the problem of energy everywhere.

We have to keep our energy costs low.

And so the governor put together Power SC this year, bringing Duke and Dominion and Santee Cooper together, along with business to find out what do we need to do.

You can't look two and three years ahead.

If you are, you're already behind the eight ball.

You have to have a plan that reaches out 10 years and even beyond to find out what are those energy costs.

I do a lot of traveling around the state, and, you know, when the current administration out of DC really put a halt on natural gas, we have a great company here in South Carolina, a steel recycler in Cayce, a CMC, and they talked about the fact that with that kind of decision at the federal level, it ended up having a million dollar a month negative impact on their energy costs.

And so we have to make sure we're ahead of that, because as an accountant, I can tell you there are very few businesses that can take a million dollar a month hit.

- Tony.

- Yeah, I know for a number of years in North Carolina there was a feeling that when North Carolina counties were, or in the state, were going up against South Carolina, that South Carolina always had an advantage, because the perception was they would offer a lot more incentives.

And I'm not trying to stir anything up, or maybe I am.

- [Chris] Yeah, sure you are.

- But maybe I am.

But what would you say, and maybe that's changed, North Carolina's had some pretty good economic wins lately too, but what would you say is the secret sauce?

What is it that when you all are talking to companies, what is it that appeals to them?

Is it the incentives?

Is it, what is it?

- I think there's a lot of things that appeal to them.

First of all, you know, it's just our way of life.

You know, very few states can say that they can have breakfast in the mountains, and they can have dinner at the coast.

So we have, you know, beautiful surroundings that bring them here.

We also have, like I said earlier, a robust technical college that is very nimble and is very willing to work with business to create the workforce they need.

And I'll give you a great example.

I was at a round-table with our boating industry, and they came to me and said, "Lieutenant Governor, we can hire 250 workers today, good paying jobs, $25 an hour jobs, but we don't have the talent."

And so I connected them with Horry-Georgetown Tech.

Dr. Fore over there is very innovative.

The boating industry brought the curriculum to her.

And starting in August, we have the first boat building curriculum here in our state.

And see, that kind of message spreads quickly, is that we can be nimble.

Again, those public-private partnerships that we work so hard to cultivate, yields in the results they need.

And so, you know, on top of the fact that, you know, our commerce department has a lot, have had a lot of great wins.

We work very hard, the governor and I, to make sure that we can give them all the resources they need.

And now looking forward at energy, and being ahead of that, and looking to see how we put more power on the grid, gives us a real competitive edge.

- Governor, let me, quick follow up, Lisa, I'm sorry, but let me just follow up with something that you've talked about the technical colleges and Dr. Tim Hardee and that gang down in South Carolina have done so well.

Is there, do technical colleges, because community colleges are the same in North Carolina, do they have the capacity, they're just not able to enter the fray and get the workers out quickly enough?

Where's the rub about engaging technical and community colleges more?

- Well Chris, I think that has changed a lot over the years.

Myself, along with the governor, have used our position to really change the idea that was revolving around our technical colleges.

I'm a mom of three.

When my middle son chose not to go to a four year college, I was shocked, because see, I'm the daughter of a tool and die maker, and I hadn't realized how far the pendulum had swung to really look at our technical colleges as second tier options.

And that is changing.

I think COVID has really changed that.

I have used my position when I speak all over the state to talk about the amazing career options that are coming out of our technical colleges.

And so I think to get kids excited, I don't think it was the kids, and the students that were not excited.

It was the parents, it was the guidance counselors, who weren't looking at those opportunities as the opportunities they were pushing.

And I can tell you here in South Carolina that is changing.

- Lisa, thanks.

Sorry to jump in.

- No, I think that's great, and I think a kind of another follow up.

What do you see in terms of future curriculum or future needs that we need to be preparing for now, so as there's new technologies and AI, and as things advance and change, what are the next phases of what our community colleges need to be looking at?

- You know, I think we always need to look at, you know, the computer world, and how that encoding, you know, that has been a big thing.

But I think our technical colleges have to look at where we are deficient in workers.

And we have seen over the years that we are deficient in our trades, you know, plumbers, electricians, HVAC workers.

I love when young kids come to visit me at the capitol when I'm there, and I ask them the question, like, think of where you wanna live.

Think of that big house that you drive by and you see.

Who do you think lives in it?

And they'll come up with the same kind of things, you know, you would think, a doctor, a lawyer, a CEO.

So it's great to tell them, like, no, it's probably a plumber, it's an electrician, it's somebody that works on HVAC, because they don't even realize that.

'Cause, again, for so long, we stopped putting an emphasis on this.

And I can tell you, living in South Carolina, and having a place at the coast also, there is, you will pay any amount of money if your air conditioning goes out in August and it's 110 degrees.

So there's no more welcome sight than the HVAC guy.

And we have to let our kids understand this.

I hear this over and over again from people that are in the trades.

They went to a four year college, 'cause that's what was expected of 'em.

But they wanted to work with their hands, and nobody was encouraging them.

And then they go back and reinvent themselves after they've already accumulated college debt.

And they're using the new career, the career they probably would've wanted to start out with had they had, again, some encouragement.

So that's why I think it's really important for parents to understand where our needs are.

We've put $75 million in South Carolina into workforce scholarships so that we can upscale people into the jobs that we know we're deficient in.

We know we need coding, we know we need more engineers, and we're doing a lot on that end.

But, you know, I guess there's a lot of encouragement to go around.

And I think it's really important for us to give parents an idea of what the jobs of tomorrow are so they can help educate their children.

- Your honor, let's go upstream in the education continuum a little bit, and let's go to K through 12.

And there's a new boss, obviously Ellen Weaver's a new Superintendent of Education in South Carolina.

Where would you like to see Superintendent Weaver and them be more engaged maybe is not the right answer, my question, but Molly Spearman was a known quantity, Ellen Weaver is becoming a known quantity, but where is the easy part to get things done?

- Well, I don't think there's anything that's super easy when you're talking about education.

But where the governor and I would like to see education go, especially in the K through 12 sector, is in school choice.

You know, I sit with lieutenant governors from all over the country, and when I sit with those lieutenant governors, lieutenant governors like Jeanette Nunez from Florida or Mississippi's lieutenant governor, Alabama.

The biggest strides in outcome they've had is when school choice was really put into play.

And so I think that's what we need to look at.

We saw the general assembly giving more money into a voucher system for parents, so parents can make those choices.

I have three children, and I know all three of my children learn differently, and what we should all want is the success of every child coming out of school.

We also put a lot of emphasis in South Carolina on our four K, our pre-K education.

You know, research has shown that you can fill the gap a lot more cost effectively in those early years than you can in the later years.

So making sure that we have the money for parents to get their children in good quality programs at the three K, four K level, so that they're going in, and everybody is coming into kindergarten at the same level, and we don't see that disparity depending on where you live.

- [Chris] Tony.

- For decades we've seen people leaving rural areas and going to cities, and a lot of cities in the Carolinas are doing really well.

They're growing, you know, whether it's Rock Hill, Columbia, Greenville, Spartanburg, but what can we do to make sure that those rural areas don't get left behind, that those still remain places to where people can live and work and have a job and thrive?

- [Chris] And Governor, we have about two minutes.

- Great, so I've been working with DEW, and DEW is meeting people where they are, going out to those rural areas.

Commerce has done a lot trying to get businesses that are coming into South Carolina excited about going out to those rural areas, because as we all know, you can't throw enough money at a problem to fix it.

You have to have a plan.

And so getting businesses out there, change everything for our rural communities.

- Oh wow, you really did listen to me about two minutes.

Governor, would there ever be a "Pamela Evette for Governor" sign in your yard?

- You know, I am just so, I really do love waking up every morning doing what I do.

And you know, Chris, in this world, a day is like a year and a year is like a lifetime.

So I'm gonna work really hard as lieutenant governor, working alongside Governor McMaster to make sure that all the things we talked about here today become reality.

- Yeah, and we have literally a minute left.

And I did wanna ask you this.

You had mentioned about young children and working families.

Do you ever hear, and we asked the DEW executive director this question too, but do you ever hear that families would be working more if they had better childcare or cheaper childcare?

- I do hear that, and I give a huge shout out to Georgia Mjartan with First Steps, you know, really working hard to get First Steps known, first off, around the state, and really working to put good quality childcare everywhere.

I think businesses now, since COVID, have come to this new realization that childcare can be a huge obstacle to getting, you know, the workforce that they need.

And so, you know, we see again where public-private partnerships are working together to see businesses have a vested interest in getting good quality childcare in their areas also.

- Governor, thank you so much, and please, please come back and be on our program.

And actually please come in the studio with us next time.

I hope you will.

- Chris, I definitely will.

We'll get in the studio next time.

But this has been great.

- [Chris] Thank you.

- And I look forward to it.

- Thank you.

Take care.

Lisa, nice to see you.

Thank you for being here.

- Thanks for having me.

- Come back.

And Tony, always nice to have you.

Thank you.

- Good to be here.

Thanks, Chris.

- Until next week, I'm Chris William, goodnight.

(soft music) - [Advertiser] Gratefully acknowledging support by Martin Marietta, Blue Cross Blue Shield of South Carolina, Sonoco, High Point University, Colonial Life, and by viewers like you.

Thank you.

For more information, visit CarolinaBusinessReview.org.

(dramatic music) (dramatic music continues)