Tinisha Spain: Hello and thanks for joining us on Friends Plaza for another episode of Mid-American Gardener.

I'm your host, Tinisha Spain and enjoying this lovely fall day with me are two of my faves, I'll have them introduce themselves and tell you a little bit about where you can find can find them in the garden.

So, Kay, we'll start with you.

Kay Carnes: Well, you can always find me anywhere in the garden.

I live outside of Monticello.

We got a couple of acres, and I grow a lot of herbs and flowers and vegetables and Tinisha Spain: Heirloom tomatoes.

Kay Carnes: Yes, heirloom tomatoes.

Although this year, they were kind of sparse.

Tinisha Spain: Yeah, this, this one was kind of tricky, yeah.

Okay, all right, Jen?

Jennifer Nelson: Hi, I'm Jennifer Nelson.

You can find me also in Monticello, out in my garden of all sorts of different things.

And you can also find me on campus.

I teach in the Department of Crop sciences.

I teach vegetable gardening.

And you can find my articles online at groundandgrowing.com Tinisha Spain: So couple of generalists on the show today.

Okay, so it is unseasone--It's beautiful.

It's so absolutely beautiful.

So we're sitting outside today.

We're going to take some of your questions.

We've got show and tells.

So we've been talking about these purple tomatoes all season.

So, bring it full circle.

Jennifer Nelson: Bring it home.

Last time I was on, I showed how we were saving seeds from the tomatoes.

And it's the purple tomato is the first GMO being offered to home gardeners.

And it's interesting, the company is actually promoting that people should save the seed to grow next year.

It's kind of unusual for a GMO to be promoted that way, but I'm taking them up on their offer, and we showed how you let the tomatoes kind of ferment to remove that gel coating on the seed.

So I did that, and I dried them out on a paper towel, and then I just saved a pill bottle, and I saved desiccant out of, yes, out of a bottle of vitamins.

I just have a little stash of them, and look, I even labeled it, so I look very I'm not just being generic when I say purple tomato, that's the name of the cultivars, the purple tomato.

So, and I put the date, so I remember I collected these in 2024 and I was like thinking, Oh, maybe I didn't collect enough.

And I'm looking at this and like this enough after the next years or more, so we're good.

We'll have, we'll have purple tomatoes everywhere next summer.

Tinisha Spain: I posted a video on, I think, yeah, it was the Mid-American Gardener social of the bubbly, moldy, yucky...they look great now.

I laid them out just like you did, dried them... Jennifer Nelson: And they're weirdly kind of fuzzy.

Did yours stick in kinda clumps?

Tinisha Spain: Yes, they did.

They did.

I thought you put some vermiculite in there with it.

Jennifer Nelson: No, they're just kinda clumping up.

Tinisha Spain: So I'm hopeful that they'll turn out well and produce just as good as they did this year, because I had a bang up year with those tomatoes.

Jennifer Nelson: Those were really fun.

Yeah, so many aspects...the color of the flavor.

Tinisha Spain: Oh my gosh.

Did you make pasta sauce?

Unknown: I did not make pasta sauce.

Tinisha Spain: I did!

Jennifer Nelson: I made caprese salad with purple tomato, a red tomato and sun sugar, which is kind of yellow, orange.

Beautiful.

Tinisha Spain: I kept calling it my unicorn pasta because it was kind of shimmery, you know, when it cooked down.

So definitely looking forward to that and spring Jennifer will be so proud of fall Jennifer for being organized.

Jennifer Nelson: That's right.

Future Me is going to be thirlled.

Tinisha Spain: Yes, awesome.

Okay, all right, Kay, what did you bring from your garden?

Kay Carnes: Well, I brought a stem from my lion's tail plant.

Tinisha Spain: Lion's tail plant, I want to write that down.

Kay Carnes: It's African plant, just not real hardy here.

Tinisha Spain: Do you grow these...from seed?

Or do you buy starts?

Kay Carnes: I did!

And I had a seed, and now the plant is about eight feet tall.

Tinisha Spain: Oh my gosh.

Kay Carnes: And it has all these stems that go up.

And you can see it's a member of the mint family.

And you can see, because it's got this square stem.

Tinisha Spain: Gotcha.

Is it hollow?

Do they do?

No.

Kay Carnes: No.

Jennifer Nelson: Can you save seed from it?

Kay Carnes: Yes, as a matter of fact, the one I grew came from seed that I had saved.

I don't know when.

Tinisha Spain: Wow.

So will this just keep going up and creating spikes?

Kay Carnes: It will, and eventually the seeds, there's kind of little thorns on this and the seeds come in the pod... Tinisha Spain: Gotcha.

Kay Carnes: ...where those petals are.

So the pedals come off and then the seeds develop.

Tinisha Spain: Now, you said it's pretty tender.

Will it reseed itself...if you?

Kay Carnes: I don't know.

I've never tried... Tinisha Spain: I'm always trying to get the most bang for my buck.

Jennifer Nelson: Same.

Less work, right?!

Kay Carnes: I would doubt that they re-seed because they stay in these holes in the pod.

Tinisha Spain: Oh, gotcha.

Okay, so it secures the seed.

Okay, I see, I bet that's really pretty.

And does it go out?

Is it?

Is it bushy?

Kay Carnes: Yes, it branches.

I've got several.

This was one of them I brought, because it was a little easier than the rest of them.

Unknown: But eight feet tall, that's crazy.

Kay Carnes: They get huge, and there's medicinal purposes...sedatives and several other things.

Tinisha Spain: Yeah, I'm definitely gonna have to Google that, because I don't think I've seen it.

And now to know that it gets eight feet tall, and then just sporadically has those, those blooms all the way up.

That's really cool.

Lions tail plant...I will be looking up.

Kay Carnes: They call it lion's tail or lion's mane.

Tinisha Spain: Got it.

And does it come in any other colors?

Do you know?

Kay Carnes: No.

Tinisha Spain: Just the orange?

That's still gorgeous.

That's lovely.

All right, we've got some questions that have come in.

I'm probably gonna have leaves in my hair by time we're over with.

We'll start with this pin oak question from Marilyn.

It says I have a big pin oak in my front yard, which provides a lot of shade.

I have some hosta under that tree, and they don't seem to grow at all and thrive.

Are the pin oaks inhospitable to planting underneath them?

Would native plants start better?

So we've talked about, what was it?

Walnut?

Yeah, iliopathic...

Unknown: lilopathic.

That's not happening with pin oak.

But there's not a lot of...how do I say this without making people upset?

We're really not supposed to be planting stuff under trees.

That's really not like recommended.

That's not to say people don't do it.

So if Hostas aren't working, you could try something else, but remember, you're competing with the trees roots.

And yes, that's something that you have to keep in mind, in my mind, I would much rather have the healthy tree and have, like some nice mulch or something if it's too shady for grass, because people get all fanatical about trying to grow grass under trees and stuff.

And so you might be able to start some sort of ground cover, but you're not going to be doing some intensive like digging sort of situation of you're gonna have this whole hosta bed or whatever.

Hopefully, that's makes sense.

It Tinisha Spain: It does.

It does make sense.

So what if you are planting under a tree, if you're trying to create sort of that design?

How far out would you suggest?

And I know you're not an arborist, but you know, is there, is there a good safe distance to not have to deal with that competition?

Unknown: Not under the tree!

Yeah, I mean, I, and I have stuff under trees at home, and I would say I'm at least a good, I'm at least a good three feet away from the trunk, maybe more like five six feet.

But I'm not.

I'm not planting anything, like, super thick, like, I have a couple of things, and if they grow great, and if they establish great, but I'm not, but not like, I'm not like, I'm not trying to, like, plant a huge clump, like a dig, put a small thing in there, and if it takes off and kind of makes its own little area, I'm okay with it, but, like, I've seen stuff over the years of people doing things like building raised beds with a tree in the middle, like plant, like building up the soil around the tree.

That's the volcano horrible.

That is such a stress on a tree, and the tree starts making these extra adventitious roots, because it's like, what's going on?

So yeah, just go easy on it.

Maybe try it.

Maybe there are some native ground covers that you'd be able to kind of piece in there and see if they taste.

But don't go to any big excavation project, landscaping project under any tree, not just pin oak.

Tinisha Spain: Because you will be competing either way you slice it.

Gotcha, okay, all right.

Kay, let's go back to you.

We were talking about herb gardens now that we're in fall as the leaves.

Just the timing was impeccable on that one.

Do you close your herb gardens, your herb beds?

Do you just sort of naturally let them go?

How do you do it?

Kay Carnes: Well, I harvest a lot and dry it, and then I just let it go.

Just let it go.

And then if it's a annual, I'll be able my following year.

If it's a perennial, it'll be fine.

Tinisha Spain: But if you've got mint or something like that, do you cut it back?

I know a lot of people, especially when they plant mint, Jennifer Nelson: Mine's in a pot.

Tinisha Spain: Smart woman.

Smart woman.

Kay Carnes: If you cut it back, it's just going to grow more, you know, it's going to spread out.

Tinisha Spain: Gotcha.

Kay Carnes: So, you know, I would just let it be, and then in the spring, you know, cut back anything that's dead.

Tinisha Spain: Do you throw any compost or mulch or anything on it to sort of give it just a layer of protection?

Or does it need that?

Kay Carnes: Well, it depends on what it is I used...I have a garlic bed because I love garlic, and I use a thick layer of straw for that.

And that does really well.

I got a huge garlic cloves.

Tinisha Spain: That's a good tip.

So garlic...mulching, or maybe straw on the garlic, Kay Carnes: And you could do the same thing, maybe not as heavy, maybe grass clippings, layered, or straw.

Straw works really well.

Tinisha Spain: Gotcha.

All right, Jen, what about you?

Any closing of the beds, any ceremonial compost?

Or are you just like me and ripping stuff out?

Unknown: I was just ripping stuff out.

I mean, it's been so dry at my house... Tinisha Spain: It's hard to work.

Unknown: I think I told you in the text, I'm just ready to burn it all down.

No, I, I last year we were both talking about having petunias blooming in December.

That is not the case this year because it's just been so dry, and I just got tired of watering.

So my pots are pretty well done.

I have, we've dumped a lot of stuff out, and just kind of getting ready for next year.

I've got to do something different in my raised bed, so I'm kind of making the list already for spring 2025 Yes, like things I want to do different.

It's a good time of year to take some pictures before you tear stuff out.

Or, if you've, you know, you're noticing that when this stuff is really grown in and up and going, it looks terrible by this time, or you document it so you can kind of think about what you want to do.

Tinisha Spain: Get the old plant journal back out...what worked, what didn't work...

Unknown: You can do it on your phone anymore.

You've got all those different notes apps and stuff.

Tinisha Spain: That's true.

That's true.

Like for next year, the impatiens will not be behind the Zinnias, because, that was crazy.

Unknown: I was just asking Kay about a plant I've got to move.

I've got an herb that I have to make a note to move it in the really early spring, because I know it's got a big tap root.

So that's a difficult to transplant.

plant.

So it is... Kay Carnes: Those are hard because you have to dig so deep.

It's lovage, or lovage.

I don't know how you say it, but it, it's very tall.

It has a great big flower head on it.

It tastes like celery.

So you really can't grow celery around here very well, but you can use this herb for flight.

It's great stuff.

I like it for just how tall it gets, yeah.

But ever since we did an addition on our house and we've...I had to reconfigure stuff.

Like, it's kind of settling in where it's at, and it's not liking it, so I've got to move it.

Tinisha Spain: That's part of the game, though, right?

You realize... Jennifer Nelson: You're never done gardening.

Tinisha Spain: no, you realize, like, oh, this might need to move four feet over to the left next.

Unknown: That's exactly what I need to do.

I need to move it about three feet, and it'll be happy.

Tinisha Spain: Yes.

Okay.

And we're talking about things that you can do right now, and tulip planting is one of those things that you can do in the fall.

Let's see.

Karen sent a picture in, and she says, Do you prefer to plant tulip bulbs using an auger or doing it by hand?

Both of you said, when I we were talking about this depends on how many you got, because it's going to make a big difference.

So I think I planted 20 tulips last week.

Easy, done by hand.

Yeah.

No big deal.

Just turn the soil over.

But I think here she was talking about doing 100 plus.

Jennifer Nelson: yeah, hands are gonna get tired.

Tinisha Spain: you need an auger, yeah?

And an assistant, I would say, yes.

One does the auger and the other drops the bulb in.

Unknown: It also depends how your soil is too.

If your soil is easy to dig and you don't mind dig, it's not a big effort.

Yeah, then go do it by hand, but that auger will just power through and makes and then you can go so fast with it.

Tinisha Spain: Yes, just the few that I dug in that shovel did not want to go.

Unknown: Well, tulips, you're usually trying to plant.

What about six inches deep?

And like, your measurement of six inches gets smaller.

It seems like, as I go, I'm like, Oh, that'll be good enough.

Kay Carnes: It's so dry.

The soil is like concrete.

Tinisha Spain: Yes, it is.

So if you're digging 100 of them, or planting 100 of them, you'll definitely want that auger.

Is there anything when we're putting those in the ground.

Do we want to water?

I mean, I know we want to water them when we plant them, but let's say from now until you know, a big freeze or a big snow, are we taking care of those tulip bulbs that we just put in the ground, or we just set it and forget it?

See you in the spring?

Unknown: I got to trust that Mother Nature is going to take care of them.

I've never actually watered them beyond just that, just that initial and maybe throw some bone meal or something in the hole.

Tinisha Spain: That's good advice.

I didn't know if you would have to baby them a little bit just to kind of get them going, but that's good to know.

Good to know.

All right, but let's see.

D.R.

Esry wants to know about their crocus.

They say, I have a fall blooming crocus, but they are planted in a bed for several years.

I think they need to be divided and replanted.

Is it best to separate and replant them in the fall or wait till the spring?

Now?

Crocus is, do we?

Do you pull those up?

Unknown: No.

In fall, crocuses are different.

I actually had a minute to look that one up.

So they're gonna the recommendation is to divide them in the summer, because after their their leaves die back, because they have, like, the leaves come up and die back, and then the flower comes up, is what I was reading.

So it's kind of not on any schedule, similar to anything interesting.

And one of the fall blooming crocus is the saffron crocus.

So it's, we're kind of in the middle of where they sometimes will survive or not.

So if you wanted to grow your own saffron, the most expensive, one of the most expensive spices... Tinisha Spain: I think John Bodensteiner.

Jennifer Nelson: I'm sure he was it.

Tinisha Spain: Yeah, yes, he has some.

Jennifer Nelson: If anyone's gonna have it, John will.

Tinisha Spain: Yeah, it would definitely be John.

Definitely be John.

Okay, any other tips there on the crocus and just how to care for them, plant them, get them prepared for next year?

Unknown: I think that's another set and forget it.

Don't you think?

Tinisha Spain: We love low maintenance!

We love low maintenance.

Excellent.

Okay, what else so we talk about in the fall.

Every year we talk about the leaves.

Do you guys do anything with your leaves?

Do you mulch them?

Do you use them in your garden in any way?

Jennifer Nelson: I don't have enough leaves.

Tinisha Spain: You don't have enough leaves?!

I can give you some of mine.

You can have as many as you'd like.

Unknown: The few leaves that I have are causing a problem.

I've got them in one gutter on my house.

That's an achievement, though.

That means my tree has gotten big enough to cause a problem.

But I do, I do, for the most part, leave things, leave leaves where they fall, in terms of on the on the garden bed, Kay Carnes: Unless it's a real thick spot, but I...we don't rake leaves.

Jennifer Nelson: No, we mow them up.

Kay Carnes: That's what my husband does.

Tinisha Spain: I left them all this year.

So this spring, they had all kind of packed in around the hosta.

And you know, usually you want to get out there as soon as it gets nice out and start.

But I left them and I and I intentionally left them, and I didn't have any trouble with slugs.

I didn't have any trouble with like, you know how the under part of the hosta start to get just tired?

Yeah, I saw a lot less of that.

So I think I'm going to be a leaf gal.

Let's see what else we've got...digging bulbs.

Margie Brewer says, I just dug out my Glads for the winter.

Can I wrap them in paper and place them in a bag or put them in the basement?

So basically, where should she put them, or what can be done with them?

And then with the little bulblets that form, what do you do with those?

Do you pop them off?

Do you leave them on?

So let's back all the way up so that she dug out the Glads.

How do you store Glads for winter?

Kay Carnes: I don't.

I live in the ground.

Tinisha Spain: You do?

Kay Carnes: I do!

I cut them back and leave them in the garden.

And they're always there the next year.

Unknown: I do too, and I have dug them a couple of times.

But some of them, if they're up close to the house, they've survived.

So I've kind of done kind of a hodgepodge of, I'll dig a few.

I've done a couple different things with overwintering.

I've just put them in a tote in the crawl space where it's cold, but not freezing.

I put them in the crisper drawer, one here, and that worked.

Yeah.

Nobody cared.

Nobody was like, it was out in the garage, nobody.

Nobody was hurt.

Nobody tried to eat them.

Nobody was like, poisoned or anything by doing any dirt, getting on anything.

Yeah, but yeah, just keeping them cool and dry.

And the bulblets, they would technically eventually get big enough, but I don't know if they how many years that would take.

You'd have to be really meticulous with it.

Tinisha Spain: Yeah, there...I had some tiny little ones on my Colocasia, colacasia.

I just left them because they were so small I thought you probably need a little bit more...That was just an assumption on my part.

Unknown: And I also, I get to the point with how many things to bring in.

I'm like, how much will it cost to replace these with nice, big, fat bulbs that have been that have been grown in awesome conditions?

Tinisha Spain: That's true.

Unknown: And so kind of weighing your options that way, and that is totally low maintenance, lazy gardening.

But Tinisha Spain: It's the squirrel in me, though.

Jennifer Nelson: Yeah I know!

It's like, but if, but it's not dead yet.

I can save this!

Yes, absolutely.

100% I am the person that is always trying to save everything.

Tinisha Spain: Oh yes, oh yeah... Jennifer Nelson: But at some point, you gotta have a boundary.

Tinisha Spain: You can't, you can't save them all.

She mentioned wrapping them in newspaper.

Do you think that is a good medium?

I know we talk about perlite, vermiculite, newspaper.

Any best practices there?

Unknown: I mean, that's good in the case of, if one starts to rot, it's less likely to kind of spread.

You want to keep them from touching.

I don't always put anything on mine, so don't look to me as the expert, and I don't even bring mine in.

Yeah, I'm kind of like the so called expert that just tries to push the envelope... Tinisha Spain: Just to see.

Unknown: What can I avoid doing?

But at least I dug them Tinisha Spain: Yes.

Well, you know what?

I like that, though, because we do have, we have a very mixed group, where some are very, very particular and very persnickety about timing on digging things and checking them mid winter to make sure that everything's okay.

And then there are some of us who are just like, eh!

Unknown: seriously.

And, you know, I have some stuff that I don't dig at all, but I put it in pots.

I have dahlias in a pot, and I just, I just drag the pot in the garage and it will be fine.

I have a tuberous begonia that survived by accident like I never even last summer, I never even got around to putting it in its own pot.

It was in like that, the the plastic nursery, Oh, wow.

And it was still sitting outside in my to be planted, and it was the fall, and like, oh, man!

Tinisha Spain: come on back inside.

Unknown: I'm like, Well, I threw it in the garage, not thinking anything of it, like, Oh, it'll probably die.

And it was sprouting in the spring like do you have proved me that you were worthy!

Tinisha Spain: You just have to push the envelope.

Okay, we've got about three minutes left, and last thing I wanted to ask is a lot of us are have already brought in our house plants that were on the porch, but if there are any stragglers that are still alive, I have one ZZ plant on the porch.

What do you recommend for insects?

Do you just look them over?

Do you spray it down?

Do you just turn the hose on?

What do you do for spiders and insects and all that good stuff?

Jennifer Nelson: I look them over and I give them kind of a bath in the sink.

Kind of run flush the pot, in case there's any stragglers inside the pot.

Sometimes you can have, like, a lot of Roly polys and stuff like that.

Yeah, and I can sometimes help flush them out.

Bonide is the company makes a systemic granule that is good for all sorts of critters.

Not necessarily.

It will be things like scale and mealybugs and the stuff you really don't want on your house, yes, but yeah, other than that, and sometimes I stage stuff by putting it in the garage for a few days so anything can kind of disperse.

Yes, one year, I brought in a giant praying mantis, and the cat just went berserk.

As entertaining as it was for the cat, it was kind of not what I was aiming for.

Tinisha Spain: Oh, yeah, I think, well, one year, speaking of the staging, I think I brought in a mouse, but it was in the garage because there was a little hole and I think he exited.

Jennifer Nelson: Yeah, I've heard stories of that, especially like those great big pots that you may have, like I have a Monstera that I can hardly get in and out by myself anymore.

I'm always worried about that one.

Tinisha Spain: Yes, yes.

What about you, Kay?

Anything special that you do before your before you bring your house plants back inside?

Kay Carnes: Nah, just kind of clean them up a little bit.

Tinisha Spain: Clean them up and give them a little rinse off.

Kay Carnes: Yeah, find a good spot for them somewhere.

Tinisha Spain: Yeah, somewhere.

Jennifer Nelson: Another thing, if you're worried about stuff coming out later, the yellow cards that are sticky, you can put those out.

Tinisha Spain: I really do like those.

And you know, even if you don't think you have those little gnats or those little fruit flies, when you go look at those in, like, January, February, you'll there's a couple little guys on there that were, you know, that came in with you so well.

Anyway, ladies, we are out of time.

Thank you so much for coming.

I appreciate it.

Always appreciate your time and talents, and thank you so much for watching.

If you've got questions for our panelists, you can send them in to us at yourgarden@gmail.com or you can find us on socials.

Just look for Mid-American Gardener, and we will see you next time.

Thanks so much for watching.

Good night.