[ MUSIC ] >> Don: GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION."

I'M DON DAILEY.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

WE'VE GOT A FULL HOUSE WHERE EDUCATION ISSUES ARE CONCERNED TONIGHT.

LATER ON IN THE BROADCAST, STATE SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT DR. ERIC MACKEY WILL BE JOINING US.

OUR CONVERSATION WILL INCLUDE CRITICAL RACE THEORY, LEARNING LOSS DURING THE PANDEMIC AND SUPPLY CHAIN INTERRUPTIONS WHICH HAVE AFFECTED SOME FOOD SHIPMENTS TO SCHOOLS.

ALSO WITH US TONIGHT IS DR. SUSAN WILLIAMS BROWN WHO IS PRESIDENT OF THE ALABAMA EDUCATION ASSOCIATION.

SHE'S COMING UP LATER TO TALK ABOUT THE SPECIFIC CHALLENGES THAT TEACHERS HAVE FACED THIS FALL AS THEY HAVE RETURNED TO IN-PERSON LEARNING AMIDST THE PANDEMIC.

DR. JIM PURCELL WILL BE WITH US ALSO.

HE'S EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ALABAMA COMMISSION ON HIGHER EDUCATION, AND HE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT THE RETAIN ALABAMA INITIATIVE, A CONCERTED EFFORT TO KEEP COLLEGE GRADUATES LIVING AND WORKING IN THE STATE AFTER THEY FINISH SCHOOL.

BUT WE BEGIN TONIGHT WITH A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE ALABAMA REGIONAL LIBRARY FOR THE BLIND.

ANGELA FISHER HALL IS REGIONAL LIBRARIAN AND PROGRAM DIRECTOR, AND SHE JOINS US IN STUDIO.

ANGELA, WELCOME TO "SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION."

>> DON, IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE WITH YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> Don: IT IS A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU.

I ASSUME THAT YOUR NAME SAYS IT ALL, BUT YOU ARE PROBABLY A LOT MORE.

>> WELL, WE ARE THE ALABAMA REGIONAL LIBRARY FOR THE BLIND.

WE CERTAINLY ARE.

WE ARE AN ORGANIZATION THAT DISTRIBUTES BOTH AUDIO AND BRAILLE BOOKS AS WELL AS MAGAZINES TO INDIVIDUALS THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF ALABAMA WHO MIGHT BE BLIND OR VISUALLY IMPAIRED.

AND THIS IS AN ABSOLUTELY FREE SERVICE TO THEM.

>> Don: IT'S CERTAINLY A TIMELY TOPIC FOR US RIGHT NOW.

ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION WAS VERY HONORED TO PREMIER THIS WEEK A NEW DOCUMENTARY ON THE LIFE OF ALABAMA NATIVE HELEN KELLER.

IT'S ACTUALLY CALLED "BECOMING HELEN KELLER," A NEW PRODUCTION THAT FELL UNDER THE AUSPICES OF THE AMERICAN MASTERS SERIES.

I WOULD IMAGINE HELEN KELLER MIGHT BE VERY PLEASED WITH THE WORK YOU'RE DOING AT THE REGIONAL LIBRARY FOR THE BLIND.

>> WELL, HELEN KELLER WAS CERTAINLY IN HER LIFETIME A CHAMPION FOR ALL THINGS THAT WERE PROVIDED FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE BLIND, VISUALLY IMPAIRED.

AND SHE HAD A NUMBER OF OTHER SPECIAL CERTIFICATIONS AND AWARDS THAT SHE CHAMPIONED THROUGHOUT HER LIFE, BUT, CERTAINLY, MATERIAL FOR THE BLIND AND VISUALLY IMPAIRED WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO HER AND OUR SERVICE IS ONE THAT NOT ONLY PROVIDES MATERIAL, BUT WE ALSO HAVE VERY LENGTHY AND ONGOING DISCUSSIONS ABOUT BLINDNESS AND VISION IMPAIRMENT, AND WE PROVIDE ALL KINDS OF ACCESS TO RESOURCES.

>> Don: I THINK THIS WEEK DURING THE PREMIER OF THIS NEW DOCUMENTARY ON HELEN KELLER'S LIFE, LIBRARIES ACROSS THE STATE, YOURS FOR THE BLIND AND OTHERS IN GENERAL HAVE BEEN ENCOURAGED TO FEATURE MATERIALS ON HELEN KELLER.

>> WELL, CERTAINLY.

OUR LIBRARY FOR THE BLIND FALLS UNDER THE HEADING OF THE AGENCY OF THE ALABAMA PUBLIC LIBRARY SERVICE, AND THAT PARTICULAR SERVICE PROVIDES RESOURCES AND FUNDING MATERIAL AS WELL AS TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES FOR PUBLIC LIBRARIES THROUGHOUT ALABAMA.

AND AS A RESULT OF THIS SERIES FROM PUBLIC BROADCASTING, WE WILL BE ENCOURAGING LIBRARIES THROUGHOUT THE STATE TO CREATE NOT ONLY BOOK DISPLAYS, BUT ALSO BIBLIOGRAPHIES ON BOOKS BY AND ABOUT HELEN KELLER.

>> Don: I DON'T THINK THE ROLE OF HELEN KELLER AND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CAN BE UNDERPLAYED HERE, THE ROLE MODEL THAT SHE SERVED FOR THE BLIND COMMUNITY, THE TRAILBLAZER THAT SHE WAS IN OVERCOMING SO MANY OBSTACLES.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SHE TAUGHT SO MANY OF US THAT CHALLENGES CAN BE OVERCOME.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT BACKGROUND YOU COME FROM OR WHAT TYPE OF, LET'S CALL IT DISABILITIES, YOU MAY ENCOUNTER.

YOU CAN STILL OVERCOME THOSE.

AND WORKING WITH ANNE SULLIVAN, HELEN KELLER LEARNED SO MUCH.

SHE LEARNED TO READ.

SHE LEARNED TO -- ALSO, SHE LEARNED HOW TO SPEAK THROUGH HER WORK WITH ANNE SULLIVAN.

SHE WAS A CHAMPION WHO WENT ACROSS THE UNITED STATES AND SHE WAS A GLOBAL PERSON WHO, YOU KNOW, WENT OUT TO PROVIDE SO MANY RESOURCES FOR PEOPLE TO MAKE INDIVIDUALS AWARE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT SOME PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES WOULD FACE, BUT, CERTAINLY, HER MESSAGE WAS THAT THOSE CHALLENGES CAN BE OVERCOME.

>> Don: ANNE SULLIVAN, OF COURSE, HELEN KELLER'S TEACHER.

>> YES.

>> Don: AND WAS PROMINENTLY FEATURED, IF FOR NO OTHER REASON, PEOPLE WILL REMEMBER THE CLASSIC MOVIE "THE MIRACLE WORKER," ABOUT HELEN KELLER'S LIFE AND THE ICONIC SCENE IN WHICH THEY WERE PUMPING WATER FROM A WELL AND HELEN KELLER SUDDENLY UNDERSTOOD FROM ANNE SULLIVAN THAT THE FINGER SIGNING SHE WAS DOING INTO HER HAND MEANT WORDS.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

BEGINNING WITH SUCH A TECHNIQUE SUCH AS THAT, RATHER, AND THEN GROWING INTO LEARNING BRAILLE AND SO MUCH MORE, HELEN KELLER CERTAINLY SHOWED US ALL THAT YOU COULD OVERCOME OBSTACLES.

>> Don: LET'S TALK ABOUT WHO YOU SERVE, FIRST OF ALL, THE BLIND COMMUNITY IN ALABAMA BIGGER THAN WE MIGHT IMAGINE?

>> WELL, WE SERVE, ALONG WITH WHAT WE CALL A SUBREGIONAL LIBRARY ON THE CAMPUS OF THE ALABAMA SCHOOL OF THE BLIND IN TALLADEGA.

TOGETHER WITH THAT LIBRARY, WE SERVE ABOUT 8,400 INDIVIDUALS THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF ALABAMA.

NOW, THESE INDIVIDUALS ARE EITHER BLIND, VISUALLY IMPAIRED.

THEY MAY EVEN HAVE A PHYSICAL DISABILITY WHICH PREVENTS THEM FROM HOLDING A BOOK IN THEIR HANDS.

ALSO, WE PROVIDE THIS SERVICE FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE A READING DISABILITY, INCLUDING DYSLEXIA.

SO WE SERVE THOSE INDIVIDUALS.

HOWEVER, THERE ARE SURVEYS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE, ESPECIALLY BY THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND, WHICH INDICATES THERE COULD BE AS MANY AS 150,000 INDIVIDUALS IN ALABAMA WHO HAVE READING DISABILITIES OF SOME KIND OR VISUAL DISABILITIES, LET ME SAY THAT.

SO THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT WE CAN SERVE AND EVEN BEING HERE TONIGHT, THIS WILL ALSO HELP A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS LEARN ABOUT OUR SERVICE AND MAYBE CONTACT US.

BECAUSE ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS A FREE SERVICE THAT IS AVAILABLE FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO QUALIFY.

>> Don: MENTIONED THAT YOURS IS A REGIONAL LIBRARY.

YOU WORK HERE AT THE MONTGOMERY LOCATION.

THERE ARE A COUPLE OF OTHERS AROUND THE STATE, RIGHT?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

WELL, THERE'S ONLY ONE OTHER THAT DOES THIS PARTICULAR KIND OF WORK, AND THAT ONE IS LOCATED IN TALLADEGA.

>> Don: RIGHT.

>> AND SO THE TWO LIBRARIES ARE WHAT WE CALL NETWORK LIBRARIES.

WE FALL UNDER THE UMBRELLA, THE NATIONAL LIBRARY SERVICE, WHICH IS A DIVISION OF THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS.

THIS SERVICE WAS STARTED BACK IN 1931 BY LEGISLATION PASSED BY CONGRESS TO INDICATE THAT FUNDING WOULD BE MADE AVAILABLE FOR BRAILLE MATERIAL TO BE SENT TO ADULTS WHO HAD A VISION LOSS OR WHO WERE BLIND.

AND SO AS A RESULT OF THAT AND AS AN OUTGROWTH OF THAT IN 1931, THE NATIONAL LIBRARY SERVICE HAS NOW GROWN TO SERVE OVER 800,000 PEOPLE ACROSS THE UNITED STATES WHO ARE EITHER BLIND, VISUALLY IMPAIRED, HAVE A READING DISABILITY OR MAY EVEN HAVE A PHYSICAL DISABILITY.

AND WE ALSO SERVE CHILDREN NOW.

AND SO THAT WAS NOT THE CASE IN 1931 WHEN THIS WAS FIRST STARTED.

>> Don: I WAS GOING TO POINT OUT THAT YOU'RE DEALING WITH THE BLIND FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE, FROM SCHOOLCHILDREN ON UP THROUGH ADULTHOOD.

>> OH, WE ARE.

FAMILIES WHO HAVE CHILDREN WHO ARE BORN WITH A VISUAL DISABILITY OF SOME KIND, THEY CAN ENROLL THAT CHILD IN OUR SERVICE, AND THAT CHILD CAN STAY IN OUR SERVICE UNTIL AS AN ADULT.

THEY MAKE A DETERMINATION THAT THEY MAY WANT TO DO SOMETHING ELSE OR MAYBE THEY NO LONGER NEED THE SERVICE.

IT DEPENDS ON THEM.

HOWEVER, FAMILIES CAN USE WHAT WE CALL PRINT BRAILLE.

PRINT BRAILLE IS A TYPE OF VOLUME THAT HAS BOTH THE PRINTED TEXT AS WELL AS THE ILLUSTRATIONS, AND IT ALSO HAS THE BRAILLE.

SO FAMILIES CAN READ TOGETHER.

CHILDREN FROM AN EARLY AGE CAN LEARN TO FEEL THE BUMPS.

THEY CAN HEAR THE STORIES THROUGH THE WORDS OF THEIR PARENTS.

AND THEN AS THEY GROW OLDER, ABOUT THE AGE OF FIVE OR SIX, STUDENTS MIGHT BE ENROLLED IN PROGRAMS THAT SPECIFICALLY TEACH THE VISUALLY IMPAIRED HOW TO READ BRAILLE OR OTHER RESOURCES OR OTHER KIND OF TRAINING TO MAKE THEM ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, LEAD A LIFE THAT'S FILLED WITH ALL OF THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS THAT THEY WANT TO ACHIEVE.

AND SO THAT'S HOW IT STARTS.

>> Don: I'VE OFTEN HEARD STORIES ABOUT SIGHTED FAMILY MEMBERS WILL OFTEN LEARN TO READ BRAILLE ALONGSIDE THEIR BLIND COUNTERPARTS.

DO YOU SEE THAT MUCH?

>> WELL, WE DON'T SEE IT A GREAT DEAL, BUT WE DO SEE SOME OF IT.

AND A LOT OF OUR ADULTS, THEY START OUT READING THE PRINT BRAILLE, WHICH IS DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY FOR CHILDREN, BUT IT DOES HELP THEM TO LEARN THE BRAILLE.

AND THEN THEY TRANSITION TO THE HARDER BRAILLE.

BUT WE DO HAVE A LOT OF ADULTS WHO ARE GOING BACK AND NOW TRYING TO LEARN BRAILLE, AND THERE ARE SEVERAL PLACES AROUND THE STATE THAT TEACHES BRAILLE.

AND SO INDIVIDUALS ARE ABLE TO LEARN AND THEN THEY CAN PURSUE MORE ADVANCED BRAILLE FROM THERE.

>> Don: NOW, YOU MENTIONED AT THE OUTSET THAT THE REGIONAL LIBRARY FOR THE BLIND HOSTS VOLUMINOUS WORKS.

I ASSUME WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOVELS, CHILDREN'S BOOKS TO TEXTBOOKS TO MAGAZINES, PERIODICALS AND NEWSPAPERS.

>> WELL, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

OUR LIBRARIES ARE NETWORK LIBRARIES.

WE CARRY BOTH AUDIO BOOKS AND THE BRAILLE TITLES, AND WE HAVE MAGAZINES AS WELL AS THE BOOKS, NOVELS, NONFICTION.

WE HAVE QUITE A SELECTION OF ITEMS.

WE DO NOT CARRY EVERYTHING THAT'S EVER BEEN PUBLISHED; HOWEVER, WE DO HAVE A GREAT CROSS-SECTION OF MATERIAL FOR OUR READERS.

NOW, WE ALSO CONNECT AND WORK WITH OTHER AGENCIES LIKE THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND.

THEY HAVE A SERVICE THAT PROVIDES ADDITIONAL NEWSPAPERS.

NOW, WE DO NOT PROVIDE NEWSPAPERS THROUGH OUR SERVICE, BUT WE DO HAVE ABOUT 60 MAGAZINES OR SO THAT WE DO CARRY.

ANYTHING FROM HIGHLIGHTS FOR CHILDREN TO READERS DIGEST, ESSENCE MAGAZINES, THE SMITHSONIAN, ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE CARRIED THROUGH OUR SERVICE, BUT WE DO WORK WITH OTHER AGENCIES THAT PROVIDE ADDITIONAL ITEMS.

>> Don: YEAH, WELL TIMES ARE CHANGING AND THE PRINTED NEWSPAPER IS ALMOST A THING OF THE PAST NOW, ISN'T IT?

>> WELL, ALMOST, YES.

AND SO OUR VIEWERS, THEY DO HAVE ACCESS TO THE AUDIO AND BRAILLE VERSIONS OF THOSE NEWSPAPERS.

SO THAT MATERIAL AND FOR THEM IT'S MATERIAL THAT'S PROVIDED RIGHT AWAY.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO WAIT SEVERAL WEEKS OR SEVERAL MONTHS UNTIL IT'S TRANSCRIBED, BUT IT IS AVAILABLE TO THEM RIGHT AWAY.

>> Don: IS YOURS A TRADITIONAL LIBRARY IN THE SENSE THAT PEOPLE CAN CHECK OUT BOOKS OR WORKS AND TAKE THEM HOME?

>> WELL, INDIVIDUALS CAN CHECK OUT MATERIAL; HOWEVER, WHAT MAKES US DIFFERENT FROM OUR REGULAR PUBLIC LIBRARIES IS THAT WE MAIL MATERIAL DIRECTLY TO THE HOME ADDRESS OF OUR PATRONS.

AND SO THEY DO NOT HAVE TO COME INTO OUR LIBRARY TO PICK THINGS UP, BUT THEY CAN JUST CALL US, TELL US WHAT THEY WANT AND WE'LL MAIL IT TO THEM.

NOW, FOR OUR INDIVIDUALS OR OUR PATRONS WHO LIVE IN THE MONTGOMERY AREA, THEY OFTEN COME BY, JUST DROP BY BECAUSE THEY WANT SOMETHING RIGHT AWAY.

AND SO WE'RE HAPPY TO SERVE THEM SO THEY CAN WALK IN AND GET THE SERVICE.

BUT FOR THE MOST PART, WE ARE SET UP TO MAIL MATERIAL DIRECTLY TO HOME ADDRESSES.

>> Don: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT YOUR SERVICE IS BEING UTILIZED TO ITS FULLEST EXTENT?

OR DO MORE PEOPLE PROBABLY NEED TO KNOW ABOUT WHAT YOU DO AND WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THEM?

>> WELL, WE ARE ALWAYS SEARCHING FOR MORE PEOPLE WHO CAN QUALIFY FOR OUR SERVICE BECAUSE IT IS AVAILABLE TO THEM.

AGAIN, IT IS FREE.

ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS MAKE CONTACT WITH US, AND WE WILL SEND THEM AN APPLICATION FOR SERVICE, AND THAT APPLICATION NEEDS TO BE CERTIFIED.

BUT NOW, IF WE GO BY THE SURVEY THAT'S BEEN DONE BY THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND WHERE THEY'VE IDENTIFIED OVER 150,000 INDIVIDUALS IN ALABAMA WHO MIGHT SUFFER FROM VISION LOSS OF SOME KIND, THEN CHANCES ARE ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE COULD QUALIFY FOR OUR SERVICE.

NOW, WE'LL NEED A FEW MORE STAFF MEMBERS IN ORDER TO HELP THEM ALL, BUT WE ARE HERE AND WE'RE READY TO SERVE ANY OF THEM THAT WANT TO APPLY.

>> Don: IT IS CERTAINLY WONDERFUL AND WORTHWHILE WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE SERVICE THAT YOU'RE PROVIDING TO SO MANY ALABAMIANS.

>> WELL, THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO TELL EVEN MORE PEOPLE ABOUT THIS SERVICE.

>> Don: ANGELA FISHER HALL IS REGIONAL LIBRARIAN AND PROGRAM DIRECTOR FOR THE ALABAMA REGIONAL LIBRARY FOR THE BLIND.

IT'S A PLEASURE.

>> THANK YOU, DON.

>> Don: AND "SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION" WILL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> MOST CHILDREN IN ALABAMA DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO FORMAL PRE-K PROGRAMS TO HELP THEM PREPARE FOR SCHOOL.

BUT ALL CHILDREN IN ALABAMA HAVE ACCESS TO THE CHILDREN'S PROGRAMMING ON ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION, AND THESE PROGRAMS ARE PROVEN TO HELP CHILDREN START SCHOOL BETTER PREPARED TO SUCCEED.

JUST WATCHING PROGRAMS LIKE SESAME STREET, SUPER WHY AND CURIOUS GEORGE CAN HAVE A PROFOUND IMPACT ON HOW WELL KIDS DO FROM KINDERGARTEN ALL THE WAY THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL.

APT ALSO PROVIDES TRAINING AND RESOURCES TO PARENTS AND CHILD CARE PROVIDERS THROUGHOUT THE STATE TO HELP THEM MAKE THE MOST OF THESE GREAT PROGRAMS.

IT'S ON AIR PRE-K EVERY DAY ON ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

APT ENCOURAGES PARENTS TO WATCH THESE VALUABLE PROGRAMS WITH THEIR CHILDREN.

>> Don: NEXT UP ON "SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION," STATE SUPERINTENDENT OF EDUCATION DR. ERIC MACKEY IS BACK IN STUDIO WITH US.

DR. MACKEY, ALWAYS NICE TO SEE YOU.

>> GREAT TO BE HERE.

>> Don: WELCOME BACK TO SPOTLIGHT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Don: LET'S BEGIN WITH CRITICAL RACE THEORY.

IT MADE ALL THE HEADLINES IN THE LAST WEEK WHEN THE STATE SCHOOL BOARD ESSENTIALLY CODIFIED ITS POSITION ON THIS ISSUE, PUT INTO ADMINISTRATIVE CODE ITS OPPOSITION TO TEACHING CRITICAL RACE THEORY IN SCHOOLS.

TELL US WHAT THAT MEANT.

>> SURE.

IT REALLY MEANS WE'RE GOING TO MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO.

WE HAVE COMBED THROUGH OUR STATE COURSES OF STUDY.

WE KNOW THAT CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND NOT JUST CRITICAL RACE THEORY, BUT THE CONCEPTS THAT ARE CONTROVERSIAL AROUND THAT, THEY ARE JUST NOT ANYWHERE IN OUR COURSES OF STUDY.

SEVERAL OF THE BOARD MEMBERS WANTED TO MAKE SURE, THOUGH, AND ENSURE THEIR PUBLICS THAT IN THE FUTURE THE BOARD WOULDN'T GO THERE, THAT WE WOULD CONTINUE TO MAINTAIN THE KIND OF VERY HONEST AND OPEN DIALOGUE THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE IN OUR COURSES OF STUDY.

A COUPLE OF THINGS I HAVE TO ALWAYS REMIND PEOPLE.

ONE, CRITICAL RACE THEORY IS NOT CALLED OUT ANYWHERE IN EITHER THE CODE CHANGE OR THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE CHANGE OR, EXCUSE ME, THE RESOLUTION.

IT REALLY SAYS THAT WE ARE GOING TO NOT TEACH, WE'RE NEVER GOING TO TEACH THAT ONE RACE OR GENDER IS SUPERIOR TO ANOTHER SIMPLY BECAUSE OF RACE OR GENDER.

AND THAT TEACHERS THAT DO THAT ARE GOING TO BE IN VIOLATION OF THE CODE.

AND THEN CERTAINLY THAT NO GROUP OF STUDENTS BASED ON THEIR RACE, GENDER, OR OTHER IDENTITY ISSUES, SHOULD BE GUILTED INTO THINKING THIS OR THAT ABOUT THEIR RACE.

AND SO I THINK THESE ARE ACTUALLY CONCEPTS THAT IN THIS STATE WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR 50 OR 60 YEARS.

WE HAVE MOVED BEYOND RACE IDENTITY, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALSO COMPLEX BECAUSE PEOPLE -- MANY PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE ARE FEARED THAT THIS IS A STEP TOWARD TRYING TO REVISE HISTORY AND CUT MORE DEPLORABLE THINGS OUT OF OUR HISTORY, LIKE SLAVERY AND HOW THAT WAS DEALT WITH IN ALABAMA.

SO I'VE JUST ENSURED PEOPLE THAT THAT IS NOT THE CASE.

WE ARE CERTAINLY NOT ABOUT REWRITING HISTORY, BUT WE ALSO ARE NOT ABOUT ASSIGNING BLAME TO TODAY'S STUDENTS.

>> Don: THAT'S REALLY WHAT IT BOILS DOWN TO IN MANY FOLKS' MIND, THE DEBATE OVER CRITICAL RACE THEORY IS ASSIGNING BLAME, THAT THERE IS SYSTEMIC RACISM IN OUR INSTITUTIONS AND POLICIES IN THIS STATE AND THAT ONE RACE SHOULD PAY THE PRICE, SO TO SPEAK, FOR THE INJUSTICES IT DID AGAINST THE OTHER RACE.

BUT THERE IS THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN, WHICH YOU BRING UP, WHICH WE ALREADY TEACH IN OUR SCHOOLS, SLAVERY, THE RACIAL AND CIVIL RIGHTS STRUGGLES AND THOSE THINGS.

WE'RE JUST NOT GOING TO GO, AS I HEAR YOU SAYING IT, INTO PUTTING MORE BLAME ON ONE RACE THAN THE OTHER.

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

AGAIN, WE'VE BEEN WORKING FOR REALLY ABOUT 70 YEARS IN THIS STATE ON INTEGRATING SCHOOLS AND WE'RE TO A POINT WHERE MOST OF OUR SCHOOLS ARE HIGHLY INTEGRATED.

THEY ARE ALL, OF COURSE, LEGALLY INTEGRATED.

WE HAVE STUDENTS OF ALL DIFFERENT RACES, DIFFERENT FAITHS ARE WALKING THE HALLWAYS TOGETHER.

WE DON'T SEE FIGHTS BREAKING OUT OVER THOSE THINGS LIKE WE DID 40 YEARS AGO.

WE BELIEVE WE'VE MOVED BEYOND THAT.

WE DON'T WANT TO GO BACK TO THAT.

YET AT THE SAME TIME, I DO UNDERSTAND THAT AS ONE OF THE SPEAKERS POINTED OUT LAST WEEK, THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, HISTORICALLY WE FEAR WHERE OUR STATE MIGHT TAKE US BECAUSE STATE LEADERS IN THE PAST DID NOT MAKE GOOD DECISIONS AROUND THESE TOPICS.

ALL I CAN DO IS SPEAK FOR MYSELF.

I CERTAINLY KNOW THAT THIS BOARD IS COMMITTED TO MAKING SURE THAT WE TEACH THE TRUTH, EVEN WHEN THAT TRUTH IS UGLY.

AND WHEN THAT TRUTH IS GOOD.

AND THAT'S THE WAY WE WORK WITH OUR STUDENTS.

>> Don: IT'S ALSO BEEN BROUGHT FORTH A LOT IN THIS DEBATE THAT WE DON'T CURRENTLY TEACH CRITICAL RACE THEORY.

WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, OR WHAT THE BOARD IS SAYING THROUGH THE ACTION IT TOOK, IS WE DON'T AND WE WON'T.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

YEAH, WE DO NOT HAVE CRITICAL RACE THEORY.

OF COURSE, IT HAS BEEN SAID MANY TIMES IT'S REALLY A GRADUATE-LEVEL CONCEPT MOSTLY TAUGHT IN LAW SCHOOLS ABOUT SYSTEMIC RACISM IN THE LEGAL SYSTEM.

YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST NOT TAUGHT IN HIGH SCHOOL, MIDDLE SCHOOL, AND ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.

AND WILL NOT BE TAUGHT IN THOSE GRADES.

>> Don: DR. MACKEY, A LOT OF SCHOOLS THIS WEEK WERE OBSERVING FALL BREAK.

HAVING GOTTEN THIS FAR IN THE NEW SCHOOL SYSTEM WITH IN-PERSON LEARNING BACK, FOR THE MOST PART, IN FULL FORCE, HOW HAVE WE FARED?

>> WELL, WE'VE DONE REALLY WELL.

LAST REPORTED NUMBERS WE WERE BELOW A THOUSAND STUDENTS WITH COVID ACROSS THE STATE AND ABOUT ANOTHER HUNDRED OR 150 ADULTS.

SO WE FEEL REALLY GOOD ABOUT THE NUMBERS.

THE TREND LINE IS REALLY GOOD.

IT CONTINUES TO GO DOWN.

TOMORROW MORNING, WE'LL HAVE NEW NUMBERS TO REPORT.

AND I THINK, CROSS ALL MY FINGERS AND TOES, I THINK THAT TOMORROW MORNING'S NUMBERS WILL ALSO BE MUCH LOWER.

NOW, WHAT WE HOPE IS THAT MEANS WE TURNED A CORNER.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF OUR STUDENTS NOW, UPWARDS OF 90%, ARE BACK IN THE CLASSROOM FOR IN-PERSON INSTRUCTION, BUT THERE ARE SO MANY PIECES STILL MISSING.

FOR INSTANCE, SUBSTITUTE TEACHERS.

WE JUST CAN'T FIND SUBSTITUTE TEACHERS.

SO WHEN A TEACHER IS OUT, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY RELATED TO COVID.

WE'VE HAD TEACHERS WHO HAVE GONE ON MATERNITY LEAVE.

TEACHERS WHO HAD A SICK CHILD AT HOME BUT IT'S NOT COVID RELATED AND WE CAN'T FIND SUBSTITUTES.

WE'RE HAVING TO DOUBLE UP CLASSES AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

MY NEXT HOPE IS IF WE REALLY TRULY HAVE TURNED A CORNER, IF WE DON'T HAVE ANOTHER SPIKE IN THE WINTER, THAT WE'LL BE ABLE TO GET BACK TO NORMAL.

MANY OF OUR SUBSTITUTE TEACHERS ARE RETIREES AND THEY QUIT ON US -- QUIT ON US PROBABLY NOT THE RIGHT TERM -- BUT THEY STEPPED ASIDE DURING THE PANDEMIC.

WE'RE HOPING SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE WILL COME BACK AND REJOIN THE SCHOOL COMMUNITY IF WE CAN TRULY SHOW THAT WE'VE MOVED BEYOND COVID AS AT LEAST AN ACUTE PROBLEM.

>> Don: THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION OBVIOUSLY HAS WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH PUBLIC HEALTH IN REPORTING COVID IN SCHOOLS AND THE SEVERITY THEREOF.

WHERE OUTBREAKS ARE CONCERNED, IN PARTICULAR SCHOOLS OR DISTRICTS AND WHERE CONTACT TRACING IS CONCERNED, WE'RE NOT SEEING THAT KIND OF REPORTING ANYMORE.

>> RIGHT.

YEAH, SO IN WORKING WITH PUBLIC HEALTH, THE PROBLEM WITH OUTBREAKS, SO OUTBREAKS IS CONSIDERED THREE CASES OF AN ILLNESS IN A SCHOOL.

WELL, YOU CAN IMAGINE WHEN THE SPIKE CAME, THERE WERE SO MANY SCHOOLS WITH AT LEAST THREE CASES THAT IT REALLY WAS NOT RELEVANT TO REPORT THOSE AS OUTBREAKS.

WE TALKED TO OUR COLLEAGUES AT PUBLIC HEALTH.

THEY FELT LIKE THEY WERE BETTER OFF SPENDING THEIR TIME IN OTHER PLACES.

NOW, AS WE GET TO SOMETHING CLOSER TO NORMALCY, THEY MAY WANT TO START REPORTING IT AS OUTBREAKS AGAIN.

IF I CAN GIVE AN EXAMPLE, LET'S SAY WHOOPING COUGH, WE HAD A TRUE OUTBREAK OF WHOOPING COUGH AT A SCHOOL ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO PRE-COVID.

YOU SAY, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

WE HAD FIVE CASES IN A PARTICULAR SCHOOL OF WHOOPING COUGH.

THAT IS A DISEASE -- WE DON'T SEE FIVE CASES IN A YEAR NORMALLY.

WHEN YOU HAVE FIVE CASES IN ONE SCHOOL, THAT TRULY IS AN OUTBREAK.

PUBLIC HEALTH AND OUR DEPARTMENT PUT ALL OF OUR RESOURCES INTO THAT COMMUNITY TO MAKE SURE IT DIDN'T SPREAD FURTHER.

WITH COVID, IT'S JUST BEEN SO WIDESPREAD THAT REALLY TALKING ABOUT OUTBREAKS HAS A WHOLE DIFFERENT MEANING.

HOPEFULLY AS IT BECOMES MORE CONTAINED, THEN IN THE FUTURE WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT LIKE I DID THAT WHOOPING COUGH CASE.

ONE HERE AND ONE THERE, BUT NOT CASES ALL ACROSS THE STATE AT THE SAME TIME.

>> Don: WHILE TRYING TO KEEP SCHOOLS AS HEALTHY AS POSSIBLE WITH RETURN TO IN-PERSON LEARNING THIS FALL, YOU'VE ALSO HAD TO DEAL WITH THE OTHER ASPECTS OF THIS PANDEMIC, AND THAT'S BEEN LEARNING LOSS, MAKING UP FOR THE LEARNING LOSS WE SAW WHEN SO MANY KIDS WERE STUDYING VIRTUALLY.

HOW ARE WE DOING?

>> WELL, WE THINK WE MADE SOME REALLY GOOD GAINS THIS SUMMER.

WE KNOW WE HAD SOME VERY GOOD SUMMER PROGRAMMING.

WE HAD RECORD NUMBER OF KIDS ATTENDING.

NOW, SUMMER PROGRAMS ALSO WERE INTERRUPTED IN MANY COUNTIES BECAUSE OF COVID OUTBREAKS.

SO WE WOULD HAVE STUDENTS THAT WERE QUARANTINED IN THE SUMMER, TOO.

OUR PROBLEM IS, WE CAN'T MEASURE THOSE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE WE GIVE THAT STATEWIDE TEST IN THE SPRING.

WE DID GIVE SOME ASSESSMENTS THIS SUMMER, WHAT WE CALL FORMATIVE ASSESSMENTS, AND THE DATA INDICATE THAT STUDENTS DID MAKE UP A LOT OF LOST TIME.

IN FACT, SOME STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT SUMMER PROGRAMMING MAYBE MADE SIX MONTHS OF GAIN IN TWO MONTHS OF WORK.

THAT'S NOT UNUSUAL.

IT WOULD BE GOOD IF YOU COULD SUSTAIN THAT FOREVER.

WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS PICKING UP MISSED LEARNING, CLOSING ACHIEVEMENT GAPS, SO THAT CAN BE DONE.

YOU KNOW, NEXT SUMMER IS THE KEY.

I HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR 18 MONTHS NOW THAT THE SUMMER OF '22 IS REALLY WHERE WE HAVE TO FOCUS OUR TIME, OUR ATTENTION, AND OUR MONEY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN EMPLOY TEACHERS, EVEN RUN BUSES, GET KIDS INTO SUMMER PROGRAMMING IN '22.

AND THAT'S ASSUMING THAT WE'VE KIND OF BEATEN COVID BACK BY THEN AND DON'T HAVE A LOT OF QUARANTINES IN THE SPRING AND SUMMER.

>> Don: DR. MACKEY, A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO STANDARDIZED TEST SCORES FOR THIS LAST BATCH OF TESTING CAME OUT.

WHAT WERE YOUR IMPRESSIONS?

>> YOU KNOW, THEY WERE MIXED.

WE ACTUALLY HIT OUR TARGETS.

OUR PRESET, PRE-COVID-SET TARGETS FOR ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARTS PROFICIENCY.

SO ABOVE 50%.

WHEN I TALK ABOUT PROFICIENCY, THAT'S WHAT WE CONSIDER A OR A-B STUDENTS.

STUDENTS WHO ARE ABOVE -- THEY ARE HIGH END OF THE GRADE LEVEL OR WELL ABOVE GRADE LEVEL.

SO WE THINK THAT'S PRETTY GOOD.

ACTUALLY, MAYBE I HAD SET MYSELF UP, BUT IT'S BETTER THAN I THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE.

NOW, OUR MATH MUCH LOWER.

WE'RE VERY DISAPPOINTED IN WHERE MATH SCORES WERE, BUT WE WEREN'T SURPRISED BECAUSE, AGAIN, AS PEOPLE -- AS TEACHERS WERE TEACHING SOME STUDENTS REMOTE, IN MANY CASES THEY WOULD BE HYBRID AND ONLY HAD STUDENTS TWO DAYS A WEEK, WE KNOW THOSE TEACHERS FOCUSED ON READING SKILLS.

AND MATHEMATICS IS MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO TEACH OVER, SAY, A ZOOM LESSON.

YOU REALLY NEED TO BE THERE WITH THE STUDENT WORKING WITH MANIPULATIVES, SHOWING THEM HOW TO WORK THE ALGORITHMS.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO TEACH MATHEMATICS ON ZOOM.

THE THIRD PROBLEM WAS IT'S DIFFICULT FOR PARENTS TO PICK UP THE MISSING PIECES WITH MATHEMATICS.

LET'S SAY, FOR INSTANCE, ELEMENTARY READING, THERE'S A LOT TO TEACHING THE SCIENCE OF READING, BUT THEN A BIG PART OF IT IS PRACTICING WHAT YOU'VE BEEN TAUGHT.

SO PARENTS CAN PICK UP THAT PRACTICE PART AND READ WITH THEIR CHILDREN.

IT'S DIFFERENT WITH MATHEMATICS.

PARENTS HAVE A MORE DIFFICULT TIME TEACHING MATH TO THEIR CHILDREN.

SO THAT DIDN'T SURPRISE ME, BUT SOMETHING WE HAVE TO WORK ON AND REALLY, REALLY FOCUS ON MATH IN THE NEXT TWO YEARS.

>> Don: DR. MACKEY, BEFORE WE CLOSE, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE SUPPLY CHAIN AS IT WERE.

WE'VE BEEN READING RECENTLY ABOUT A COUPLE OF SCHOOL SYSTEMS AROUND THE STATE WHO HAVE HAD TROUBLE GETTING IN THEIR NORMAL FOOD SUPPLIES.

A COUPLE OF THEM WERE ASKING PARENTS TO SEND THEIR KIDS TO SCHOOL WITH SNACKS BECAUSE OF SUPPLY SHORTAGE.

>> YEAH, THERE ARE TWO THINGS BEHIND THAT.

FORTUNATELY, BOTH NOW APPEAR TO BE UNDER CONTROL AGAIN, BUT ONE IS SIMPLY THE INDUSTRY SUPPLY CHAIN.

SO THERE ARE SOME FOODS THAT ARE JUST NOT AVAILABLE, THE ACTUAL VENDORS THAT MAKE THE FOOD, THE PACKAGING, IN SOME CASES IT'S ACTUALLY PAPER AND PLASTIC AND GLASS PACKAGING THAT THERE'S A SHORTAGE OF.

THEY SAID WE CAN'T SHIP THAT, YOU'LL HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING DIFFERENT, WHICH CAUSES SCHOOLS TO HAVE TO CHANGE THEIR MENUS.

AS YOU KNOW, SCHOOLS ARE VERY STRICT ABOUT WHAT CAN BE SERVED UNDER FEDERAL GUIDELINES.

WE'VE HAD TO DEAL WITH THAT.

THE OTHER PIECE IS TRANSPORTATION.

THERE'S A SHORTAGE OF TRUCK DRIVERS AND A SHORTAGE OF TRUCKS OUT THERE.

WE HAVE TWO MAIN VENDORS THAT SUPPLY ALMOST ALL THE CAFETERIAS IN THE STATE.

THIRD AND FOURTH COMPANIES LITTLE SMALLER THAT SERVE SOME CAFETERIAS.

AND I HAVE TO SAY THEY HAVE STEPPED UP TO THE PLATE.

IT REALLY IS A MODEL FOR PRIVATE-PUBLIC PARTNERSHIP, HOW WE HAVE BENT THE RULES AS FAR AS WE CAN BEND THE RULES UNDER FEDERAL GUIDELINES TO GIVE THE SCHOOLS AND THOSE PRIVATE VENDORS MORE OPTIONS.

FOR INSTANCE, THEY CAN KEEP TRUCK DRIVERS ON THE ROAD LONGER.

THAT'S TAKEN SOME CHANGES IN FEDERAL TIME RULES, AND AT THE SAME TIME WE'VE HAD SCHOOLS THAT GO TO THE WAREHOUSE AND PICK UP FOOD.

SCHOOLS THAT HAVE BROUGHT IN CAFETERIA STAFF, UNFORTUNATELY, ON SUNDAY AFTERNOON, THEY TAKE DELIVERIES ON SUNDAY BECAUSE THE COMPANIES COULDN'T GET THEM THE FOOD DURING THE WEEK.

IT'S TAKEN A LOT OF INVENTION BUT MOSTLY WE'RE THERE, AND HOPEFULLY THE REST OF THE SCHOOL YEAR WE'LL HAVE LESS PROBLEMS WITH SUPPLY CHAINS.

>> Don: WE HOPE THAT'S TRUE.

STATE SUPERINTENDENT OF EDUCATION, DR. ERIC MACKEY, ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

>> GREAT TO BE HERE.

THANK YOU.

>> Don: YOU BET.

AND "SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION" WILL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION'S READY TO LEARN SERVICE IS ON THE ROAD EVERY WEEK PROVIDING ON-SITE WORKSHOPS, RESOURCES, AND BOOKS FOR CHILD CARE PROFESSIONALS, TEACHERS, AND PARENTS ACROSS THE STATE.

ON THE GO HELPING CHILDREN GROW.

ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

>> Don: NEXT UP ON "SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION," HOW TEACHERS SPECIFICALLY HAVE BEEN FARING DURING THIS PANDEMIC.

DR. SUSAN WILLIAMS BROWN IS PRESIDENT OF THE ALABAMA EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, AND SHE JOINS US IN STUDIO.

DR. BROWN, WELCOME TO SPOTLIGHT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Don: NICE TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Don: YOU WERE FAIRLY NEW TO THE JOB.

I THINK YOU ASSUMED THE PRESIDENCY OF AEA IN JULY.

>> YES, SIR.

>> Don: TELL US ABOUT THE ROLE YOU PLAY.

YOU SORT OF LEAD THE TEACHERS GROUP IN MANY RESPECTS NOW.

>> YES, SIR.

I SEE MYSELF AS AN ADVOCATE AND A VOICE FOR ALL EDUCATORS IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA.

AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PUBLIC UNDERSTANDS THEIR NEEDS.

AND IT'S BEEN VERY INTERESTING.

>> Don: LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND.

THIS IS YOUR, I BELIEVE, 42nd YEAR AS AN EDUCATOR.

YOU ARE FROM GADSDEN AND CURRENTLY TEACH AT GADSDEN STATE COMMUNITY COLLEGE, RIGHT?

>> YES, THIS IS MY 42nd YEAR AND I AM STILL AN EMPLOYEE OF GADSDEN STATE.

I WAS TEACHING THERE PRIOR TO TAKING THIS POSITION.

>> Don: YOU KNOW, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN SAID THAT TEACHING IS A CALLING, BUT I WOULD IMAGINE THAT HAS NEVER BEEN MORE SO THAN DURING THE CHALLENGES OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS DURING A PANDEMIC.

WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT.

>> OH, YES, SIR.

I THINK THESE TIMES ARE GOING TO GO DOWN IN HISTORY AS SOME OF THE MOST CHALLENGING FOR EDUCATORS ALL ACROSS THE BOARD.

>> Don: THE CHALLENGES ARE MANY, NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH HAS BEEN SPLITTING YOUR TIME, I WOULD IMAGINE, BETWEEN VIRTUAL LEARNING, ONLINE LEARNING, AND IN-PERSON LEARNING AND ALL THE CHALLENGES THAT GO WITH EITHER-OR.

BUT BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT THAT, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PSYCHOLOGICAL ASPECT OF ALL OF THIS FOR TEACHERS.

TEACHERS HAVE REALLY HAD TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND DEFY THE ODDS AND MEET SO MANY DIFFERENT CHALLENGES.

I'M WONDERING WHAT YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN LIKE AND DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOURS IS FAIRLY TYPICAL OF THE EXPERIENCE OF OTHER TEACHERS?

>> IT HAS BEEN VERY CHALLENGING, AS YOU'VE SAID.

I DO BELIEVE MY EXPERIENCE WAS VERY SIMILAR TO A LOT OF EDUCATORS ACROSS THE STATE BECAUSE WE WERE JUST GIVEN A VERY SHORT NOTICE WHEN WE HAD TO TRANSFER OVER TO TOTAL ONLINE LEARNING OR REMOTE LEARNING.

AND THEN AS WE'VE GRADUALLY COME BACK TO THE FACE-TO-FACE, WE KIND OF HYBRID IN, DID THE HYBRID LEARNING.

BUT, YES, MANY INSTRUCTORS AND EDUCATORS ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND ACROSS ALABAMA HAVE HAD DIFFICULTIES, BUT THEY HAVE STEPPED UP TO THE PLATE AND HAVE DONE SO MUCH.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE THEY ARE HAVING TO EVEN STILL DO VERY MANY MODES OF LEARNING BECAUSE THEY'LL HAVE, EVEN IF THEY HAVE THE FACE-TO-FACE CLASSES, WHICH IS, WHAT THEY WANT AND WE WANT AND THE STUDENTS REALLY WANT THAT, SOME OF THE STUDENTS HAVE TO BE REMOTE BECAUSE OF EXPOSURE OR HAVING TO QUARANTINE THEMSELVES OR JUST BEING SICK FROM JUST GENERAL THINGS.

SO A LOT OF THE TEACHERS ARE STILL HAVING TO PREPARE PACKETS AND DO ONLINE LESSONS FOR THOSE STUDENTS WHO CAN'T BE IN THE CLASSROOM DAY AND DAY.

IT CONTINUES TO BE CHALLENGING, BUT THE TEACHERS AND THE EDUCATORS UNDERSTAND THE NEED, AND THEY WANT TO DO WHAT THEY CAN FOR OUR STUDENTS.

IT DOESN'T JUST IMPACT THE EDUCATORS, THE TEACHERS, IT IMPACTS THE BUS DRIVERS, THE CAFETERIA WORKERS, THE JANITORS.

I MEAN, IT'S JUST BEEN SO MUCH ON EVERYONE.

AND THERE'S THE SHORTAGE.

THERE'S THE SHORTAGE OF TEACHERS.

THERE'S THE SHORTAGE OF BUS DRIVERS.

THERE'S SHORTAGE OF ALL WORKERS RIGHT NOW.

WE SHOULD BE REALLY THANKFUL TO THOSE WHO SHOW UP EVERY DAY.

>> Don: INDEED WE SHOULD.

I CAN ONLY IMAGINE THAT THAT JUGGLING ACT BETWEEN IN-PERSON LEARNING AND REMOTE LEARNING HAS BEEN PARTICULARLY CHALLENGING, GOING BACK AND FORTH AND BEING PREPARED AT A MOMENT'S NOTICE TO GO BACK AND FORTH AS HAS OFTEN BEEN THE CASE.

>> EXACTLY.

WE HAVE BEEN VERY FORTUNATE IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA.

WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PURCHASE A LOT OF DEVICES FOR STUDENTS WHO DIDN'T HAVE THE DEVICES AND PROVIDE HOT SPOTS FOR STUDENTS AT DIFFERENT LOCATIONS WHO MAY NOT HAVE HAD THE INTERNET SERVICE.

BUT THE MATERIALS, MANY OF THE TEACHERS HAVE HAD TO START FROM SCRATCH AND CREATE THE ONLINE MATERIALS.

TEACHERS HAVE SHARED A LOT BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN SOME TEACHERS WHO HAVE DONE A LOT OF ONLINE LEARNING THROUGHOUT AND IT WASN'T NEW TO THEM.

SO THEY HAVE SHARED WHAT THEY'VE HAD.

YOU CAN GOOGLE AND FIND LOTS OF RESOURCES AND TEXTBOOK PUBLISHERS HAVE BEEN AN ASSET TO EDUCATORS IN PROVIDING THEM RESOURCES AS WELL.

SO WE'RE LUCKY THAT WE'VE HAD SOME OF THAT, BUT IT IS STILL VERY DIFFICULT, AND CHALLENGING FOR THE STUDENTS.

A LOT OF STUDENTS THOUGHT THEY WANTED TO DO THE ONLINE LEARNING AND THEY THOUGHT OF IT LIKE A VIDEO GAME, BUT WHEN THEY REALIZED THEY WENT TO TAKE THE TEST ONLINE, IT'S DIFFERENT.

AND I REALLY TRULY BELIEVE AS I VISITED THROUGHOUT THE STATE SINCE JULY, THE EDUCATORS ARE HAPPY TO BE BACK IN THE CLASSROOMS AND THE STUDENTS ARE HAPPY TO BE BACK IN THE CLASSROOMS.

>> Don: BECAUSE THERE TRULY IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR IN-PERSON LEARNING, RIGHT?

>> RIGHT.

>> Don: EVEN THOUGH WE'VE HAD TO MAKE SACRIFICES DURING ALL OF THIS.

YOU BROUGHT UP AN INTERESTING POINT AND THAT IS THERE ARE A LOT OF TEACHERS WHO I'M SURE WERE NO STRANGERS TO VIRTUAL LEARNING BEFORE THE PANDEMIC BUT NEVER ON THIS SCALE, RIGHT?

>> EXACTLY.

MANY HAD TAUGHT A CLASS OR TWO ONLINE OR HAD DONE A TOPIC OR TWO ONLINE WHERE THEY HAD VIDEO LESSONS FOR THE STUDENTS, DOING THE FLIP CLASSROOM.

SOMETIMES THEY WOULD VIDEO A LESSON AND LET THE STUDENTS WATCH IT AND WHEN THEY CAME TO CLASS THEY WOULD DISCUSS IT MORE.

BUT WHEN WE HAD TO GO TOTALLY VIRTUALLY IT WAS MORE DIFFICULT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE STUDENTS TO COME INTO THE CLASS TO HELP CORRECT LITTLE MISTAKES.

AND THEN THE TESTING WAS THE BIG ISSUE OF HOW DO YOU TEST REMOTELY?

AND MANY TIMES WE DID HAVE TO PREPARE PACKETS FOR PARENTS TO PICK UP.

I KNOW THERE WERE TEACHERS WHO WOULD MEET SOME OF THEIR STUDENTS IN PARKING LOTS OR DIFFERENT PLACES TO PICK UP MATERIALS OR MEET THEM OUTSIDE THE SCHOOL BUILDING IN THE OPEN AIR TO GET THINGS.

BUT I JUST CANNOT EXPLAIN TO YOU THE DEDICATION THAT ALL EDUCATION EMPLOYEES FROM K-12 AND THE HIGHER EDUCATION HAVE DONE TO CONTINUE PROVIDING THE EDUCATION FOR OUR STUDENTS AND TO KEEP THINGS GOING AND BEING THAT STEADY THING WHEN NOTHING ELSE WAS STEADY.

IT'S BEEN A CHALLENGE, BUT IT'S BEEN VERY MOTIVATING, I DO BELIEVE, TOO, FOR EDUCATORS AND FOR STUDENTS.

>> Don: I'M WONDERING IF THERE WAS ONE PARTICULAR SUBJECT OR TWO THAT WAS MORE CHALLENGING TO TEACH REMOTELY THAN IN PERSON.

I'M THINKING MAYBE MATH MIGHT BE MORE CHALLENGING REMOTELY.

>> WELL, I'M A MATH TEACHER.

>> Don: YEAH.

>> SO I BELIEVE THAT AS WELL, BUT I THINK IT WAS MORE CHALLENGING FOR THE STUDENTS BECAUSE WITH, LIKE, HISTORY AND SOME OF THE DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT, THEY WERE USES IT READING CHAPTERS AND DOING REPORTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

WITH THE MATH, THEY WERE MORE ACCUSTOMED TO THEIR TEACHER HELPING FROM STEP ONE TO STEP TWO.

AND WE COULD DO THAT SOME VIA ZOOM.

WE USED A LOT OF SMART BOARDS.

WE USED A LOT OF ZOOM.

WE USED BLACKBOARD COLLABORATIVE.

THERE WERE SO MANY DIFFERENT COMPUTER SYSTEMS, PROGRAMS THAT WE COULD USE TO TRY TO MIMIC WHAT WE DO IN THE CLASSROOM, BUT IT WAS DIFFERENT.

AND SO I THINK A LOT OF STUDENTS GOT DISCOURAGED, AND SOME OF THE FACULTY AND STAFF DID AS WELL, BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY KEPT GOING BECAUSE THEY KNEW WHAT THE END RESULT, THEIR GOAL.

AND SO -- BUT IT WAS CHALLENGING.

AND I'M SURE -- I WOULD THINK TEACHING KINDERGARTEN WOULD BE VERY CHALLENGING ONLINE AS WELL.

>> Don: YES, INDEED.

>> I KNOW ONE FOURTH GRADER THAT WAS DOING VIRTUAL LEARNING, HIS PARENTS TOLD ME HE HAD A DIFFICULT TIME STAYING FOCUSED AND STAYING SEATED FOR THE VIRTUAL LEARNING.

SO THEY ENDED UP GETTING HIM ONE OF THOSE LITTLE BOUNCY SEATS SO HE COULD HAVE SOME MOVEMENT AS HE WAS DOING HIS LESSON.

I THINK WE'VE ALL DONE WHAT WE COULD TO SURVIVE.

>> Don: DR. BROWN, WITH MOST SCHOOLS HAVING RETURNED, AT LEAST IN LARGE PART, TO IN-PERSON LEARNING THIS FALL, WE'VE ALL BEEN WORRIED ABOUT EXPOSURE TO COVID, BOTH FOR STUDENTS AND FOR TEACHERS AND FACULTY MEMBERS.

WHERE TEACHERS ARE CONCERNED, WE HEARD ABOUT A LOT OF TEACHERS WHO HAVE GOTTEN SICK.

THERE HAVE BEEN TEACHERS WHO HAVE DIED FROM COVID.

THAT REALLY COMPLICATES ALL OF THIS, DOES IT NOT?

IT MAKES IT EVEN MORE EMOTIONAL, I IMAGINE, FOR TEACHERS.

>> OH, YES, IT DOES.

AND WE HAVE HAD A REPORTED -- I BELIEVE IT HAS BEEN 71 DEATHS OF ACTIVE EMPLOYEES IN EDUCATION WHO HAVE PASSED AWAY SINCE THE START OF THE PANDEMIC.

AND THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE THE RETIREES THAT HAVE PASSED AWAY.

SO IT IS IN THE BACK OF PEOPLE'S MINDS.

I KNOW THAT EACH SCHOOL SYSTEM HAS INDIVIDUALLY DEVELOPED THEIR COVID GUIDELINES AND PROCEDURES, AND I BELIEVE THAT'S BEEN HELPFUL.

THE EDUCATORS HAVE DONE WHAT THEY COULD TO KEEP THEIR STUDENTS SAFE.

THEY ARE NOT JUST CONCERNED ABOUT THEMSELVES.

YOU KNOW, THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE STUDENTS IN THEIR CLASSES.

SO MANY TIMES THEY'VE HAD TO DO THEIR EXTRA CLEANING AND DISINFECTING BEFORE AND AFTER SCHOOL AND IN BETWEEN THE BREAKS THAT THE STUDENTS COME IN AND OUT OF THE CLASSROOM.

SO IT IS A CHALLENGE, BUT IT'S ONE THAT THEY'VE HAD TO TAKE AND HAVE BEEN WILLING TO TAKE TO KEEP THE EDUCATION MOVING FORWARD.

>> Don: I WOULD IMAGINE, TOO, THAT CONTACT TRACING HAS BEEN A PARTICULAR CHALLENGE BECAUSE WHEN YOU LEARN OF SOMEONE IN THE CLASSROOM, FOR INSTANCE, FOR AT THE SCHOOL WHO HAS BEEN EXPOSED OR TESTED POSITIVE FOR COVID, THEN YOU HAVE TO START THINKING ABOUT EVERYONE THAT PERSON HAS COME IN CONTACT WITH.

AND THAT REALLY CAN COMPLICATE THIS ISSUE FURTHER.

>> OH, YES.

MANY TEACHERS HAD TO GO BACK TO ASSIGNED SEATING, AND WE HAD KIND OF GOTTEN AWAY FROM ASSIGNED SEATING, BUT THEY HAD TO NUMBER THEIR DESK AND THEN KEEP A SEATING CHART, WHICH WAS HELPFUL WHEN A STUDENT GOT SICK SO THAT THEY COULD KNOW WHICH STUDENTS WERE SITTING AROUND THAT STUDENT.

BUT IT IS VERY CHALLENGING BECAUSE THERE'S NO WAY TO KNOW EXACTLY WHO ALL THAT CHILD SPOKE WITH IN THE HALLWAY OR COMING IN AND OUT OF THE SCHOOL SYSTEM.

>> Don: UM-HUM.

>> BUT I BELIEVE THE EMPLOYEES AT ALL LEVELS HAVE DONE A GREAT JOB IN WHAT THEY COULD TO DO THAT.

>> Don: WELL, THAT LEADS ME TO MY NEXT QUESTION, AND THAT IS, DO YOU THINK OVERALL OUR RESPONSE HAS BEEN AS GOOD AS IT COULD BE?

THE STATE TOOK THE POSITION THAT DECISIONS ON THINGS LIKE MASKING AND THE LIKE WERE GOING TO REMAIN LOCAL DECISIONS, AND THEY HAVE, BY AND LARGE, REMAINED LOCAL DECISIONS.

HAS THAT KIND OF M.O.

WORKED WELL, DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, I THINK WE WORK WITHIN WHAT WE'RE GIVEN, AND I BELIEVE THE EDUCATORS HAVE WORKED REALLY WELL WITH THEIR LOCAL SCHOOL SYSTEMS.

THEY HAVE BEEN VERY VOCAL WITH THEIR SCHOOL BOARDS AND THEIR ADMINISTRATION.

AND I THINK THAT'S POSITIVE BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT AS EDUCATORS, THEY NEED TO FEEL THAT THEY HAVE A VOICE IN THOSE PLANS.

AND MANY SUPERINTENDENTS AND BOARDS HAVE GIVEN THE EDUCATORS A PART IN DEVELOPING THOSE PLANS.

BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY'VE GOT TO IMPLEMENT IT, IT'S MORE IMPORTANT TO THEM AND THEY ARE A BIGGER PART OF IT WHEN THEY HAVE A BUY-IN.

SO I THINK THAT'S BEEN A POSITIVE THING SO WE'VE HAD THAT WORKING RELATIONSHIP.

BUT IT HAS BEEN STRESSFUL FOR SOME EDUCATORS WHEN ONE SYSTEM IS DOING ONE THING AND ANOTHER SYSTEM IS DOING SOMETHING ELSE.

ESPECIALLY ONE TOPIC THAT COMES TO MIND IS COVID LEAVE.

WE HAVE, I BELIEVE, BEEN ABLE TO WORK WITH 80 SCHOOL SYSTEMS TO GIVE COVID LEAVE TO EMPLOYEES WHO HAD BEEN EXPOSED AND HAD TO QUARANTINE OR WHO ACTUALLY HAD THE VIRUS AND HAD TO STAY AT HOME THROUGH SEPTEMBER.

SOME HAVE EXTENDED IT THROUGH DECEMBER, BUT I THINK THAT THAT HAS HELPED US.

AND IT HAS HELPED THE PUBLIC UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF EDUCATORS.

AND GIVING THEM RESPECT BECAUSE THEY REALIZE WHEN THE STUDENTS WERE SENT HOME OR HAD TO DO REMOTE LEARNING, IT'S NOT ALWAYS AS EASY TO GET THE STUDENT TO FOCUS AND TO DO THE WORK AS THEY THOUGHT.

I BELIEVE IT'S BEEN POSITIVE, AND WE'LL JUST WORK THROUGH WHATEVER WE NEED TO DO.

EDUCATORS ARE VERY RESILIENT, AND WE DO WHAT WE NEED TO DO WITH WHAT WE'RE GIVEN, AND THEY WANT TO PROVIDE A GREAT EDUCATION, AND I HAVE FOUND THAT THEY HAVE GIVEN THE EXTRA THAT THEY DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE THAT THEY HAD TO GIVE AS THIS HAS CONTINUED.

>> Don: DR. SUSAN WILLIAMS BROWN, PRESIDENT OF THE ALABAMA EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, THANK YOU AND TO ALL TEACHERS FOR THE SACRIFICES YOU'VE MADE DURING THIS PANDEMIC.

IT WAS A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU HERE TODAY.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Don: YOU BET.

AND "SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION" WILL BE RIGHT BACK.

♪ >> ALABAMA NATIVE MARY ANDERSON IS CREDITED WITH INVENTING THE FIRST OPERATIONAL WINDSHIELD WIPER.

IN HER NOVEMBER 10, 1903 PATENT, SHE CALLED HER INVENTION A WINDOW CLEANING DEVICE FOR ELECTRIC CARS AND OTHER VEHICLES.

ALTHOUGH HER VERSION OF THE DEVICE WAS NEVER PUT INTO PRODUCTION, IT CLOSELY RESEMBLES THE WINDSHIELD WIPER FOUND ON MANY EARLY CAR MODELS.

>> Don: FINALLY, ON "SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION," THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ALABAMA COMMISSION ON HIGHER EDUCATION, DR. JIM PURCELL IS BACK IN STUDIO WITH US.

WELCOME BACK TO SPOTLIGHT.

>> THANK YOU.

GOOD TO BE HERE.

>> Don: NICE TO SEE YOU AS ALWAYS.

DR. PURCELL, I'M REALLY INTERESTED IN HEARING MORE ABOUT A SURVEY THAT THE AGENCY WAS RECENTLY INVOLVED WITH ABOUT RETAINING COLLEGE STUDENTS IN STATE TO WORK AFTER THEY FINISH THEIR STUDIES HERE.

I BELIEVE THE INITIATIVE WAS CALLED "RETAIN ALABAMA."

TELL US ABOUT IT.

>> YEAH, IT'S A CONGLOMERATION OF SEVERAL ACTIVITIES.

THE FIRST THING WE WANT TO DO IS SEE WHAT THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE STUDENTS WERE ON THE STATE.

WE FOUND JUST IN LOOKING AT EMPLOYMENT OUTCOMES THAT WE KEEP ABOUT TWO-THIRDS OF OUR GRADUATES, THAT IS THE THIRD LOWEST IN THE COUNTRY.

SO WE KNEW THAT WE HAD AN ISSUE WITH REALLY HOW TO GET OUR STUDENTS TO STAY IN THE STATE.

WHAT WE'VE DONE, THE FIRST THING WE DID IS WE ASKED SOPHOMORES, JUNIORS AND SENIORS ABOUT THEIR FEELINGS.

THE RESULTS CAME BACK PRETTY INTERESTING.

MOST IMPORTANTLY REALLY WAS THIS IDEA THAT THEY THOUGHT OUR POLITICS WAS A LITTLE TOUGH.

THERE WERE SOME DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MINORITIES AND WHITES ON HOW PEOPLE RESPECTED PEOPLE FROM DIVERSE BACKGROUNDS.

GOOD QUARTER OF THE STUDENTS ACTUALLY SAID THAT THEY HAD NO INTENTION TO STAY IN THE STATE, AND THEN THERE WAS A LOT OF OTHERS THAT SAID MAYBE.

IT WAS REALLY DEPENDENT ON SOME THINGS.

SO THERE ARE SOME THINGS JUST EVEN ABOUT THE STATE'S REPUTATION THAT'S OCCURRED, YOU KNOW, JUST SINCE THE '60s THAT I THINK A LOT OF THE YOUNG STUDENTS ARE SORT OF CONCERNED ABOUT.

WE'VE GOT TO WORK THROUGH THAT TO MAKE SURE WE RETAIN PEOPLE FOR OUR WORKFORCE LATER ON.

>> Don: WERE YOU SURPRISED TO HEAR SOME OF THESE THINGS?

>> WELL, SOME OF IT, YES.

WHEN YOU HAVE YOUNG PEOPLE, THERE SEEM TO BE ALWAYS MORE LIBERALS IN THE OLDER POPULATION.

THE INTENSITY OF IT AND THE FACT IT WAS ACROSS THE BOARD, WHITES, MINORITIES, EVERYBODY, ALL HAD CONCERN ABOUT JUST THE TENOR OF THE POLITICAL CONVERSATION IN THE STATE.

AND I THINK EVEN THE BLOGGERS AND ALL THE PRESS SORT OF HAVE THOSE KIND OF SAME CONCERNS.

I THINK WE DO NEED TO ADDRESS THAT.

WE NEED TO HAVE PUBLIC DISCOURSE BUT PERHAPS IN A MORE POLITE AND RESPECTFUL WAY.

>> Don: ARMED WITH THIS KIND OF INFORMATION, WHAT DO YOU DO WITH IT?

WHERE DO WE GO NEXT?

>> WELL, HOPEFULLY WE'LL SHARE WITH POLITICIANS, ELECTED OFFICIALS ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR PERSPECTIVE, AND THEN THE SURVEY ALSO ASKED US, WHAT ARE THE SATISFIERS?

WHAT ARE THE THINGS YOU LIKE ABOUT THE STATE?

WHAT ARE THE THINGS YOU THINK MAKE THIS STATE IMPORTANT?

AND THAT WAS REALLY THE OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES WAS RATED VERY HIGH.

THE WOMEN FOR SOME REASON LIKE THE BEACH.

THE MEN LIKE THE MOUNTAINS.

HOPEFULLY THEY WILL MEET IN MONTGOMERY AND INTERACT.

I THINK ALL IN ALL, THERE WERE VERY POSITIVE RATINGS REALLY ON QUALITY OF LIFE, THOSE KIND OF THINGS, BUT JUST REALLY THE WHOLE TENOR OF THE POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT I THINK IS REALLY DISTRESSING FOR A LOT OF THESE YOUNG PEOPLE.

>> Don: WHAT ABOUT THE JOB MARKET ITSELF?

THESE ARE EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES, I GUESS WE MIGHT CALL THEM, THAT CERTAINLY WEIGH IN, MAYBE WEIGH IN FURTHER THAN SOME PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE REALIZED.

BUT HOW ARE THEY FEELING ABOUT JOB PROSPECTS HERE IN ALABAMA?

>> WELL, WE DO KNOW THAT THERE IS A LOT OF JOB OPPORTUNITIES.

THERE'S ANTICIPATED TO BE A 10% GROWTH OF PEOPLE WITH BACHELOR'S DEGREE OR HIGHER, SO THERE SEEMS TO BE JOBS THERE.

I WILL SAY THAT THEY INDICATED THAT THEY DIDN'T THINK THAT ALABAMA WOULD PAY AS MUCH AS SOME OTHER STATES.

SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'VE GOT TO ADDRESS, TOO.

IT'S JUST THAT PERCEPTION.

BUT WE DO KNOW THAT IF WE CAN COMMUNICATE WHAT THOSE OPPORTUNITIES ARE WE CAN DO BETTER.

SO THAT'S A PART OF THE INITIATIVE IS RESPONDING TO THIS BY HAVING OUTREACH TO THESE STUDENTS, INVITING THEM TO JOB FAIRS, IN PARTICULAR COMMUNITIES WHERE THERE ARE JOBS IN THEIR PARTICULAR MAJOR.

WE WORKED WITH THE UNIVERSITIES TO REALLY DISCUSS HOW TO INTERACT WITH THESE STUDENTS TO GIVE THEM MORE OF AN AWARENESS OF THE GREAT OPPORTUNITIES THE STATE HAS.

WE'VE MADE SOME GREAT ECONOMIC STRIDES.

BUSINESSES ARE COMING HERE LIKE CRAZY.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THE HUMAN CAPITAL FOR THESE BUSINESSES THAT COME.

>> Don: THE PANDEMIC REALLY WREAKED HAVOC WITH THE ECONOMY HERE IN ALABAMA, AS IT DID EVERY STATE IN THE COUNTRY.

I'M SURE THAT'S FACTORED IN MORE RECENTLY TO SURVEYS LIKE THIS, BUT BROADLY SPEAKING, I GUESS, MAYBE NOT SO MUCH?

>> WELL, I THINK THE BIG THING IS EACH INDIVIDUAL LOOKS FOR THEIR OWN FUTURE.

WE ENDED UP WITH A LOT OF STUDENTS COMING BACK TO GRADUATE SCHOOL AND THEY GRADUATED THIS YEAR BECAUSE THERE WAS NOWHERE ELSE TO GO FOR A JOB.

I DO BELIEVE THAT EVERYBODY IS A LITTLE BIT MORE CAREFUL ABOUT TAKING RISKS.

SO I THINK WHAT YOU'LL FIND IS PEOPLE LOOKING FOR OPPORTUNITIES THAT MORE CLOSELY ALIGN TO WHAT THEIR NEEDS ARE AND PERHAPS CLOSER TO FAMILY.

THAT MAY BE BENEFICIAL FOR US TO MAINTAIN OUR OWN STUDENTS.

>> Don: YOU MENTIONED YOU HEARD FROM SOME OF THESE STUDENTS ABOUT PAY AND THE PERCEPTION THAT PAY FOR SOME OF THE JOBS, WHICH THEY ARE STUDYING, MAY NOT BE AS GOOD IN ALABAMA AS IT IS IN OTHER STATES.

IS THAT MORE A PERCEPTION THAN REALITY?

>> RIGHT.

I THINK THAT'S THE BIG THING.

PERCEPTION CAN BECOME REALITY, AND WE JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE COMMUNICATE, HERE ARE THE SALARIES IN THIS STATE AND HERE ARE THE SALARIES IN OTHERS AND THEY MAY NOT BE THAT DIFFERENT.

THE OTHER ONE IS THE COST OF LIVING.

IF YOU GO TO ATLANTA AND PAY 25% MORE FOR HOUSING AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS, YOU'LL PROBABLY GET PAID 25% MORE, BUT YOU WON'T GAIN FROM THAT.

OF COURSE, OUR QUALITY OF LIFE, THEY DID RECOGNIZE THAT THE QUALITY OF LIFE IN OUR SMALLER COMMUNITIES, IN THE SUBURBS AND THINGS LIKE THAT WERE VERY POSITIVE.

THEY RANKED EVERYBODY -- EVERYBODY ACROSS THE BOARD RANKED BIRMINGHAM AND HUNTSVILLE AS VERY IMPRESSIVE CITIES.

>> Don: WHEN I FINISHED COLLEGE, I KNOW FOR ME, AND I MAY BE OVERLY SENTIMENTAL, BUT IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR ME TO STAY CLOSE TO HOME, TO STAY CLOSE TO FAMILY AND FRIENDS.

IS THAT STILL AN OVERRIDING SENTIMENT?

>> WELL, FOR SOME POPULATIONS, THE MINORITIES ACTUALLY THOSE THAT WANTED TO STAY IN THE STATE HAD INDICATED THAT WAS A BIG PRIORITY, ACCESSIBILITY TO PRACTICE THEIR OWN FAITH, THOSE KIND OF THINGS WERE VERY IMPORTANT.

I THINK THE BIG THING, IT IS, IT'S ALL ABOUT ECONOMICS.

IT'S ABOUT FINDING A JOB OPPORTUNITY THAT WORKS FOR YOU, AND WE NEED TO COMMUNICATE WHAT THOSE OPPORTUNITIES ARE IN THIS STATE AND I THINK WE'LL DO WELL.

>> Don: WHERE DO WE IDEALLY LIKE THE PERCENTAGE TO BE IN TERMS OF HOW MANY COLLEGE GRADUATES WE KEEP IN ALABAMA TO LIVE AND WORK?

>> WELL, RIGHT NOW WE'RE AT ABOUT TWO-THIRDS STAYING IN THE STATE FIVE YEARS OUT.

WE'D LOVE TO KEEP 75, 80 PERCENT RIGHT OFF THE GET-GO, AND WE DO THAT IN SOME MAJORS, LIKE IN EDUCATION, WE KEEP 81%, BUT WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO ENGINEERING AND THE HARD SCIENCES, WHICH IS WHAT ALL OF OUR BUSINESSES WANT TO HAVE, IT'S BELOW 50%.

>> Don: WOW.

>> THE BIG THING IS CONCENTRATING ON THOSE PARTICULAR GRADUATES AND SAYING, HEY, ALABAMA LOVES YA.

WE WANT TO YOU STAY IN OUR STATE.

HERE ARE THE PLACES THAT ARE TRYING TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

I'LL GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE.

DECATUR ACTUALLY HAS A PROGRAM WHERE THEY HELP PAY BACK STUDENT LOANS FOR PEOPLE IN MATH AND SCIENCE THAT COME AND LIVE IN THEIR COMMUNITY.

THOSE TYPE OF OUTREACH OPPORTUNITIES HELP BOTH THE CITY AND THOSE INDIVIDUALS.

>> Don: WELL, WE CERTAINLY HAVE A NEED WHERE MATH AND SCIENCE IS CONCERNED, ESPECIALLY EDUCATORS, AS WE STRUGGLE TO IMPROVE OUR MATH AND SCIENCE SCORES AMONG OUR ELEMENTARY AND HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS.

YOU MENTIONED THERE ARE SOME MAJORS WHICH WE RETAIN ABOUT 80% OF THESE COLLEGE GRADUATES.

CAN YOU HIGHLIGHT SOME OF THOSE?

>> YEAH, WELL IT WOULD BE EDUCATION FOR SURE.

IN FACT, AT FIVE YEARS, WE RETAIN THEM THE MOST.

I WILL SAY THAT I ACTUALLY SPOKE TO THE SCHOOL BOARDS YESTERDAY, AND THE BIG THING THERE WAS WE WERE KEEPING EDUCATORS IN THE STATE, BUT THEY WEREN'T ALL GOING INTO TEACHING.

THAT'S THE THING IS WE ACTUALLY HAVE TO MAKE EDUCATION MORE OF A LUCRATIVE OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT.

BUT THEIR PAY WAS ACTUALLY PRETTY MUCH AT THE AVERAGE LEVEL FOR THE STATE, SO THEY WERE AT THE 50% MEAN.

WE ACTUALLY DO PAY OUR TEACHERS OKAY COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE STATE, BUT THEY DID EXPRESS SOME CONCERNS ABOUT SALARY, A LOT OF THE REASON THEY WANT TO MOVE TO OTHER SCHOOL DISTRICTS OR TO MOVE OUT OF THE PROFESSION.

>> Don: WELL, TO REIN THIS IN, SO TO SPEAK, WHAT DO WE DO?

>> WELL, SOME OF IT IS PROVIDE INCENTIVES.

I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF LOCAL COMMUNITIES AND HAVING PEOPLE COME INTO THEIR COMMUNITIES, BE INVOLVED AND HELP THEM GET STARTED WITH THE AMERICAN DREAM.

I THINK THE UNIVERSITIES, WE NEED TO WORK HARD TO REALLY GIVE MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE TO BE INTERVIEWED BY LOCAL BUSINESSES.

WE'RE GOING TO GO INTO A HARDER OUTREACH TO THAT.

GROUP CALLED EDPA, WHICH IS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PARTNERSHIPS OF ALABAMA, WE'VE PARTNERED WITH THEM TO HELP US HAVE GREATER ACCESS TO DEVELOPING INTERNSHIPS AND PRACTICUMS FOR OUR STUDENTS IN THESE SPECIFIC MAJORS ESPECIALLY AS WE TRY TO BUILD OUR HUMAN CAPITAL UP IN SCIENCE AND MATH.

>> Don: HOW EFFECTIVE ARE GOOD OLD-FASHIONED JOB FAIRS?

>> WELL, WE PLAN TO HAVE JOB FAIRS.

THIS OPPORTUNITY TREK IDEA IS INVITING STUDENTS IN PARTICULAR MAJORS TO COME TO COMMUNITIES SO THEY CANNOT ONLY LOOK AT THE JOB OUT THERE THAT'S GREAT BUT HOW THE COMMUNITIES NEAR THAT BUSINESS WORKS.

IF YOU GO TO HUNTSVILLE, YOU'LL SEE MADISON, YOU'LL SEE DECATUR, HUNTSVILLE AND ALL THE TOWNS AROUND THERE.

>> Don: ALABAMA IS CERTAINLY IN A DIFFERENT ERA NOW WHERE JOB OPPORTUNITIES ARE CONCERNED, FROM HIGH TECH TO MANUFACTURING AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN.

I'M THINKING ABOUT ALL THE HIGH-TECH JOBS IN THE HUNTSVILLE AREA, FOR INSTANCE, THE AUTOMOTIVE JOBS SPREAD OUT ACROSS THE STATE, MANUFACTURING, AERODYNAMICS, WE OFFER THE FULL COMPLEMENT HERE, WHICH SEEM AT LEAST FROM THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN THAT THERE'S A LOT TO CHOOSE FROM FOR COLLEGE GRADUATES.

>> YES.

NO, I THINK THERE ARE GREAT OPPORTUNITIES HERE.

THE GROWTH, YOU KNOW, PROSPECT IS REALLY GREAT.

IN FACT, WITH OUR POPULATION DECLINE JUST A HAIR, ABOUT 1%, WE'VE GOT 10% GROWTH IN JOBS.

WE KNOW THAT THE JOBS ARE THERE.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS A GOOD ALIGNMENT WITH THE DEGREES WE'RE PRODUCING AND THE JOB OPPORTUNITIES THAT ARE OUT THERE.

>> Don: ONE THING THE PANDEMIC I THINK HAS TAUGHT US AMONG MANY THINGS, OBVIOUSLY, IS THAT SOME PEOPLE DECIDED IT WAS TIME FOR A CHANGE FOR THEM WHERE THEIR CAREER WAS CONCERNED, THAT THEY WEREN'T WILLING TO SETTLE FOR STATUS QUO ANYMORE OR SETTLE FOR A JOB THAT MAYBE THEY KNEW THEY WEREN'T RIGHT FOR BUT THEY TOOK BECAUSE IT WAS ALL THAT WAS AVAILABLE AT THE TIME.

THESE SHIFTING CAREER PRIORITIES I IMAGINE ARE A CHALLENGE IN THIS MIX.

>> WELL, IT IS.

ONE OF THE THINGS FROM A HIGHER ED PERSPECTIVE, THE LITERATURE SAYS THAT IF YOU ARE HIRED OUTSIDE OF YOUR JOB RIGHT OUT OF COLLEGE, YOUR FUTURE HIRES ARE ALL BASED ON THE FIRST JOB YOU GOT.

THAT'S WHY THE ALIGNMENT IS IMPORTANT.

WHAT WE'VE BEEN ALSO SUGGESTING IS WE HELP, ESPECIALLY AT THE BACHELOR'S LEVEL, DEVELOP SOME SKILLS THAT ARE VERY IMPORTANT IN THE MARKETPLACE.

SO MICRO-CREDENTIALS THAT REALLY DIRECT WHAT THE PERSON HIRES A PERSON FOR RATHER THAN JUST SAYING HERE IS A GENERALIST, I'LL LEARN ON THE JOB WHAT IT'S ABOUT.

WE DO BELIEVE THOSE MICRO-CREDENTIALS WILL ALLOW THE PEOPLE TO GET INTO SOMETHING CLOSER TO THEIR PROFESSION AND LIBERAL ARTS EXPERIENCE PERHAPS COULD BE ILLUSTRATED ONCE THEY GET A GOOD JOB.

>> Don: WHERE RETAINING STUDENTS IN ALABAMA IS CONCERNED, DO YOU ALSO DEAL, SO TO SPEAK, WITH THE MILLENNIAL ASPECT OF ALL THIS?

YOU KNOW, THE PERSPECTIVE THAT I KNOW I CAN DO THIS AND I'M ENTITLED TO THIS RIGHT OUT OF SCHOOL AND MAYBE EXPECTATIONS ARE A LITTLE TOO HIGH.

>> YEAH, I THINK EVERY GENERATION HAD THAT TO SOME EXTENT.

WE DO WANT TO WORK WITH THEM.

A PART OF THIS INITIATIVE ALSO IS TO WORK WITH THESE STUDENTS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE BETTER INTERVIEW SKILLS, THAT THEY UNDERSTAND HOW TO PREPARE FOR WHAT AN EMPLOYER WANTS.

SO WE'VE ACTUALLY WORKED WITH THE CAREER PLANNING OFFICES AND THEY HAVE HELPED US WITH A LOT OF THESE INITIATIVES.

ANOTHER THING WE HAVE IS AN OPERATION RECALL, WHICH IS A NEW INITIATIVE, WHICH IS GOING TO BE A PART OF THIS, WHICH IS ACTUALLY GOING TO ASK FOR PEOPLE WHO LEFT THE STATE TO COME BACK.

THERE IS A WAY TO SORT OF TRACK THESE GUYS AND SORT OF IDENTIFY WHAT THEY ARE DOING OUT OF STATE.

IF THERE IS A JOB OPPORTUNITY FOR WHICH THEY QUALIFY AND THEY ARE NOT MAKING SO MUCH MONEY, WE WOULD RECRUIT DIRECTLY TO THEM.

AND I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE THE REAL FUTURE.

SORT OF LIKE THE BEAR BRYANT DAYS WHEN BEAR BRYANT SAID MAMA IS CALLING, I HAVE TO LEAVE KENTUCKY TO COME TO ALABAMA.

I'D LOVE TO HAVE A LOT OF CORPORATE BEAR BRYANTS COME BACK TO THE STATE AND MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE.

I THINK THERE ARE.

THERE IS A GREAT LOVE FOR THIS STATE.

I WAS OUT OF STATE FOR 20 YEARS BUT I ALWAYS HAD AN IDEA TO COME BACK TO ALABAMA AND I KNOW THERE ARE OTHERS OUT THERE THAT HAVE TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

AND IT IS HARD TO WATCH SEC FOOTBALL IN A LOT OF OTHER STATES.

I WAS THE FIRST PERSON I THINK IN RHODE ISLAND TO HAVE THE SEC CHANNEL.

I THINK THERE IS SOMETHING SPECIAL IN THIS STATE.

>> Don: WE NEED TO WORK ON GETTING SOME OF THEM WHO LEFT TO COME BACK.

DOES THAT HAPPEN MORE OFTEN THAN WE MIGHT THINK, COMING BACK HOME AFTER HAVING LEFT?

>> AFTER PERHAPS A CAREER, A MILITARY CAREER, 10, 15 YEARS ELSEWHERE.

IT DOES COME BACK.

WE HAVEN'T SPECIFICALLY TRACKED IT HERE IN THIS STATE.

THERE ARE INITIATIVES WHERE WE'RE WORKING TO GET OTHER PEOPLE TO COME BACK.

THAT'S IMPORTANT, NOW THAT THE JOBS ARE HERE, EVERY OTHER DAY WE HAVE ENGINEER OFFERS.

WE NEED 50 ENGINEERS, NEED A HUNDRED.

WE NEED COMPUTER SCIENCE PEOPLE WITH SHIPT IN BIRMINGHAM.

WE'RE REALLY PROUD OF SHIPT TO SAY, HEY, WE WANT TO STAY IN ALABAMA, BUT WE HAVE TO BUILD AND PROVIDE THEM THE HUMAN CAPITAL NEEDED TO STAY IN THE STATE.

>> Don: DR. JIM PURCELL IS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ALABAMA COMMISSION ON HIGHER EDUCATION.

FASCINATING RESULTS HERE.

WE HOPE WE CAN HEED WHAT WE'VE LEARNED, RIGHT?

>> YEP, EXACTLY.

>> Don: THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY.

>> THANK YOU, SIR.

>> Don: YOU BET.

THAT DOES IT FOR "SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION" FOR THIS QUARTER.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

FOR ALL OF US HERE AT ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION, I'M DON DAILEY.