>> THIS WEEK IN "OFF THE RECORD," JUST ASKING.

ARE YOU READY FOR MASKING AGAIN?

LOOKS LIKE THAT'S WHERE WE'RE HEADED.

WE'LL HAVE REACTION TO THE COVID SPIKE HERE IN CHARLOTTE AND RALEIGH.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR SCHOOLS, BUSINESSES, EVERYBODY.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT.

CITY COUNCIL TALKING ABOUT ANOTHER LGBTQ PROPOSAL FROM CHARLOTTE DEMOCRATS WHAT IS DIFFERENT FROM THE GOP PLAN?

WHAT DIFFERENCE WILL EITHER PLAN MAKE?

FIRST CAME THE POLICE PROTESTS AND THEN THE POLICE LAWSUIT AND NOW A YEAR LAWYER, THE POLICE SETTLEMENT.

WHAT CMPD SAYS IT WON'T DO AT FUTURE PROTESTS.

ALSO, REPUBLICANS RUNNING FOR U.S. SENATE WILL DEBATE, SOME OF THEM WILL.

TWO CANDIDATES SAY OKAY.

A THIRD MAY STAY AWAY.

IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A JOB IN CHARLOTTE OR MAYBE A BETTER JOB, DO YOU REALLY NEED MORE TRANSIT OR MAYBE JUST A CAR?

RETHINKING WHETHER BIG MONEY PROJECTS WILL DO WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO.

LOTS TO TALK ABOUT NEXT ON PBS CHARLOTTE.

>> FROM OUR PBS CHARLOTTE STUDIOS, I'M JEFF SONIER.

THIS IS "OFF THE RECORD."

MARK BECKER FROM WSOC TV IS HERE, DANIELLE IS HERE FROM ACTIONIOS CHARLOTTE.

ELI IS HERE FROM UNC CHARLOTTE'S URBAN INSTITUTE AND STEVE HARRISON FROM WSAE.

YOU CAN JOIN THE CONVERSATION FROM HOME.

E-MAIL YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS TO "OFF THE RECORD" ON WTVI.ORG.

THE GOVERNOR IS LETTING THE MASK RULES TO EXPIRE BUT RECOMMENDING THAT EVERYBODY START WEARING A MASK AGAIN.

I GUESS THAT'S WHERE WE SHOULD START SINCE THIS THEORETICALLY COULD AFFECT ALL OF US.

JUST LIKE IT DID BACK IN THE EARLY DAYS OF COVID.

ANYONE WANT TO TAKE FIRST CRACK AT WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW ON MASKING AND THE WHOLE COVID SPIKE?

>> NOT GOOD.

NOT GOOD.

NUMBERS GOING TO OTHER WAY.

3,200 PLUS THURSDAY.

COVID POSITIVE.

FIRST TIME IN MONTHS.

IT'S BEEN A HIGH.

ONE OF THE OTHER CRITICAL METRICS THAT PEOPLE LOOK AT IS HOSPITALIZATIONS.

YOU CAN HAVE PEOPLE THAT GET THE VIRUS, MANY PEOPLE FORTUNATELY AREN'T SERIOUS.

THE HOSPITALIZATIONS BACK UP OVER 1,000 FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MONTHS.

GOING THE WRONG DIRECTION.

SO THE GOVERNOR IS STEPPING IN THIS SITUATION AND FEELING THE CDC IS DOING AN ABOUT FACE FOR THE MOST PART.

I THINK THE GOVERNOR IS WALKING THIS VERY FINE POLITICAL BALANCING HIGH WIRE HERE.

HE'S SAYING PLEASE WEAR A MASK, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO, BUT PLEASE, BASICALLY, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, FEELS IN SOME WAY VERY REMINISCENT OF THE EARLY DAYS OF THE PANDEMIC WHERE WE HAD ADVISORIES, WE DIDN'T HAVE MANDATES.

WE WERE BEING TOLD THINGS BUT LIKE WEARING A MASK AND SOCIAL DISTANCING WERE IMPORTANT AND COUNTING ON PEOPLE AND BUSINESSES TO MAKE DECISIONS HOW TO DO IT.

I KNOW MASK MANDATES OBVIOUSLY ARE A POLITICAL ISSUE NOW.

LOVE IT OR HATE IT, IT WAS VERY SIMPLE WHEN IT WAS MANDATORY.

YOU COULD JUST SAY THESE ARE THE RULES.

EVERYBODY IS SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW THEM.

NOW WE'RE BACK IN THIS SPACE WHERE, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT EMPLOYERS ARE GOING TO HAVE DIFFERENT RULES, DIFFERENCE COUNTIES, DIFFERENT STATES HAVE DIFFERENT RULES.

IT'S REALLY -- FEELS LIKE WE HAVE MOVED BACKWARDS TO LAST SPRING AND SUMMER IN TERMS OF WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW.

>> IT'S REALLY -- >> GO AHEAD, DANIELLE.

>> NO, IT'S OKAY.

IT'S AN INTERESTING CONTRAST FROM THE OPPOSITE THAT IS HAPPENING WITH VACCINES.

STARTING OFF AS INCENTIVE PROGRAMS AND LOTTERIES AND NOW SLOWLY TRANSITIONING TO REQUIREMENTS FOR STATE EMPLOYEES IN NORTH CAROLINA IN SOME CASES AND ALSO OTHER STATES AS WELL.

SO IT'S BEEN INTERESTING TO SEE WHILE, YOU KNOW, VACCINES HAVE SLOWLY BECOME MORE AND MORE THE STICK APPROACH RATHER THAN THE CARROT, THE OPPOSITE IS HAPPENING WITH MASKS.

WE WERE HAVING THEM REQUIRED BUT NOW WE'RE SUGGESTING IT.

>> STEVE?

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, I MEAN, DURING THE SURGE, THE ONLY PIECE OF GOOD NEWS, IF YOU CAN CALL IT THAT, IS THAT NATIONWIDE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE GETTING VACCINATED HAS STARTED GOING UP AGAIN.

I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE PROBABLY RESPONDING A LITTLE BIT TO THEIR OWN SELF-INTERESTS.

THEY'RE SEEING PEOPLE GET SICK, SEEING PEOPLE GO TO THE HOSPITAL.

I THINK THE SURGE IS INCREASING.

NOT A LOT BUT IT'S INCREASING THE NUMBER OF VACCINATIONS IN A WAY THAT THE LOTTERIES DIDN'T REALLY MOVE THE NEEDLE.

SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT GOING ON BETWEEN PEOPLE SEEING THE NUMBERS AND THE MANDATES COMING DOWN ON GETTING THE SHOT.

>> JUMP IN, MARK.

>> YEAH, I'M SORRY.

KEEP FORCING MY WAY THROUGH.

BUT THE DIFFERENCE HERE IS -- ELI TALKED ABOUT GOING BACK TO LAST YEAR.

THE DIFFERENCE IS THE VACCINE.

I THINK MORE AND MORE POLITICAL FIGURES AND OTHERS ARE SAYING LOOK, IT'S ABOUT THE VACCINE, FOLKS.

THE MASKS ARE CERTAINLY ARE PROVEN TO HELP BUT THE VACCINE IS THE REAL IS CRITICAL PIECE HERE THAT I THINK IT BEING -- THE GOVERNOR AGAIN, PUSHED THAT YESTERDAY.

BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE OUT THERE.

IT'S NOT ONLY A TOOL BUT AS A HUGE WEAPON.

THAT'S WHY YOU'RE SEEING COMPANIES FORCING PEOPLE TO EITHER GET THE VACCINE OR GO THROUGH THIS THING OF WEEKLY TESTING.

YOU KNOW, IT'S FROM THE NFL TO THE HOSPITALS TO EVERYBODY ELSE.

IT'S BECOME THE NORM.

>> ANOTHER PART OF WHAT THE THE GOVERNOR SAID THIS WEEK, NOT JUST ABOUT RECOMMENDING EVERYBODY WEAR A MASK, EVEN THOUGH THERE'S NO MANDATE THAT YOU WEAR A MASK, HE'S MANDATING THAT ALMOST 55,000 STATE EMPLOYEES THAT WORK FOR STATE AGENCIES THAT ANSWER TO THE GOVERNOR AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF STATE GOVERNMENT, THEY WILL HAVE TO GET VACCINATED.

IT'S GOING TO BE A REQUIREMENT.

OTHERWISE, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WEAR A MASK AND GO THROUGH WEEKLY PROTOCOLS.

HE'S SETTING AN EXAMPLE.

HE'S ASKING PRIVATE EMPLOYERS TO DO THE SAME.

THIS COMES AS EMPLOYERS ARE BRINGING FOLKS BACK TO WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE BUSINESS AS NORMAL.

AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW IF WE WANT LEADERSHIP OR FLEXIBILITY HERE.

YOU ALMOST WANT SOMEONE TO LAY OUT THE RULES FOR YOU, YOU KNOW, BY THE SAME TOKEN, WHEN EVERYBODY HAS DIFFERENT RULES, WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO FIGHT THIS LATEST SPIKE OF THE VIRUS.

THAT'S THE CONFUSING PART FROM WHERE I STAND AT LEAST.

>> YEAH, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE MORE MANDATES.

THAT MIGHT HELP MOVE THE NEEDLE IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, ONCE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS THIS IN PLACE, THE SIMILAR REGIME TO WHAT COOPER WAS SAYING, THE U.S. MILITARY ANNOUNCED THEY'LL FOLLOW THE SAME RULES.

THESE ARE MAJOR INSTITUTIONS THAT TENS OF THOUSANDS AND HOPEFULLY MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WORK FOR.

SO I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE HESITANT FOR POLITICAL OR PERSONAL REASONS OR DON'T HAVE INFORMATION OR, YOU KNOW, MAYBE DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THE VACCINE, AS THEY START TO SEE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE DO THIS WITH FEW SIDE EFFECTS THAT WILL HELP.

FRANKLY IT'S A HUGE PUSH IF YOUR EMPLOYER SAYS GET THE VACCINE OR TAKE A WALK.

MOST PEOPLE WILL GET THE VACCINE, ESPECIALLY ONCE THEY SEE THE U.S. MILITARY IS NOT GOING TO GIVE A VACCINE THAT DECREASES THEIR COMBAT READINESS.

STUFF LIKE THAT MIGHT START MOVING THE NEEDLE MORE THAN IDEAS LIKE THE EXTRA $100 INCENTIVE THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN PROPOSED THIS WEEK.

>> IT'S -- SOME OF THE OTHER -- I MENTIONED THE STATE THING.

I KNOW THAT MECKLENBURG COUNTY IS GOING TO REQUIRE THEIR HEALTH DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEES ALSO TO GET VACCINATED OR TO WEAR A MASK AND GET THE WEEKLY PROTOCOLS.

BACK TO THE MASKS.

THE SCHOOL SYSTEM, SUPERINTENDENT ASKING FOR MASKS FOR ALL STAFF AND STUDENTS COMING THIS FALL.

I KNOW UNC CHARLOTTE JUST INSTITUTED A POLICY THAT BEGINS NEXT WEEK.

ALL MASKS, ALL THE TIME ON CAMPUS WITHIN BUILDINGS.

DO YOU THINK WE'LL BE BACK AT SOME POINT TO THE MANDATORIES?

WE TALKED ABOUT WHERE WE WERE AND WHERE WE ARE.

YOU KNOW, ARE WE HEADED BACK TO THE OTHER DIRECTION OR DO YOU FEEL LIKE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY DEPARTMENT BY DEPARTMENT, YOU KNOW, EMPLOYER BY EMPLOYER TO DECIDE THIS THING?

WE'RE KIND OF USED TO THE MANDATORY STUFF.

GETTING USED TO THE DIFFERENT PLAN FOR DIFFERENT PEOPLE IS CONFUSING IF NOTHING ELSE.

>> I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT.

YOU NEVER KNOW HOW HIGH THE CASES WILL GO, RIGHT?

WE COULD MOVE INTO THE 10,000 A DAY AND THAT COULD CHANGE EVERYTHING.

IF WE STAY IN THIS AREA WHERE WE ARE NOW AT 3,000 A DAY, IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT FOR THE GOVERNOR TO CALL FOR A MANDATE.

YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK LOCALLY IN MECKLENBURG COUNTY, THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT HERE HAS REALLY MORE THAN A YEAR FOLLOWED EXACTLY WHAT THE GOVERNOR HAS SAID.

THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE A LOT OF POLITICAL APPETITE TO GO AGAINST THE GRAIN OF WHAT COOPER IS SAYING.

SO FOR NOW, NO.

BUT LIKE I SAID, IF CASES REALLY INCREASE, MAYBE SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

>> YOU HOPE THEY DON'T INCREASE, YOU DON'T WANT TO GET BACK TO WHERE WE WERE.

AGAIN, IT'S THAT TIPPING POINT THAT WE TALKED ABOUT ON A LOT OF DIFFERENT STORIES.

HOW BAD DOES IT HAVE TO GET BEFORE WE GO BACK TO WHERE WE WERE.

IT IS CONFUSING.

A LOT OF MIXED MESSAGING GO N -- ON OUT THERE.

LET'S CHANGE GEARS AND TALK ABOUT CITY COUNCIL AND THEIR DISCUSSION OR THEIR UPCOMING DISCUSSION OF NEW RULES REGARDING LGBTQ.

WE HEARD FROM THE REPUBLICAN AS COUPLE WEEKS AGO.

NOW THE DEMOCRATS HAVE A PLAN THAT IS SIMILAR BUT WE'RE GOING TO REALLY HEAR A LOT ABOUT LGBTQ IN THE NEXT COUPLE WEEKS ON CITY COUNCIL.

SOMEONE WANT TO BRING US UP TO SPEED ON WHAT THESE PLANS MEAN, HOW THEY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST AND, YOU NOEL, WHERE THE RED FLAGS ARE IN TERMS OF FLASH POINTS AND POSSIBLE CONTROVERSY AND DEBATE OVER THIS?

>> SO THIS IS BASICALLY BECAUSE THE COMPROMISE BILL OVER HBQ, THE BILL SEVERAL YEARS BACK, IT SUNSETTED AT THE END OF LAST YEAR.

SO A NUMBER OF COMMUNITIES HAVE STARTED PASSING THESE NONDISCRIMINATION ORDINANCES.

SO THE PROPOSAL -- IT IS -- THEY HAVE MANY SIMILARITIES BETWEEN THE GOP AND THE DEMOCRAT PROPOSAL.

ONE DIFFERENT THE GOP PROPOSAL COVERS HOUSING.

THE OTHER DIFFERENCE THAT IS INTERESTING, THE GOP PROPOSAL TALKS ABOUT BUSINESSES IN GENERAL.

PATRICK BAKER, THE CITY ATTORNEY, POINTED OUT BUSINESSES WITH PEOPLE UNDER -- WITH UNDER 15 EMPLOYEES.

THE REASON THAT THEY'RE DOING THAT IS BECAUSE THEY'RE SAYING THAT PEOPLE THAT WORK IN BUSINESSES WITH MORE THAN 15 EMPLOYEES WHERE YOU HAVE FEDERAL PROTECTION, SO THEY'RE LOOKING AT IT AS FILLING IN A GAP WHERE PEOPLE ARE NOT PROTECTED UNDER FEDERAL LAW.

>> CITY COUNCIL GOING DOWN A ROAD WHERE THEY'RE NOT SURE IF THEY'RE DOING IS LEGAL OR MIGHT BE CHALLENGED BY SOMEONE IN SOME SORT OF A LEGAL FASHION GOING FORWARD.

SO THEY'RE DIPPING THEIR TOE IN SOME WATER THAT THEY'RE NOT REALLY SURE HOW THIS IS GOING TO WORK OUT, CORRECT?

>> I'LL SAY, YOU KNOW, ONE THING GOING OFF OF WHAT DANIELLE SAID.

THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY TALKS ABOUT THAT THE TRICKIEST PART OF THIS NEW ORDINANCE IS THE RULES FOR SMALL EMPLOYERS, 15 OR LESS.

HE KIND OF WROTE AND SAID, WE'RE NOT SURE.

WE COULD GET SUED, BE PREPARED TO BE SUED.

A LOT OF ATTORNEYS AROUND THE STATE HAVE, YOU KNOW, REALIZED THEY'RE IN UNCHARTERED WATER HERE.

I DON'T THINK THE REPUBLICANS IN RALEIGH ARE GOING TO RESPOND.

THEY HAVE NOT RESPONDED TO THE OTHER CITIES AND TOWNS THAT HAVE DONE THIS.

THE REAL ISSUE FOR THE EMPLOYERS WOULD BE, IF THEY -- IF SOMEONE DECIDES TO MAKE A TEST CASE OUT OF THIS, THAT COULD HAPPEN.

AND, YOU KNOW, ONE OTHER -- ON A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT SUBJECT.

GOING BACK TO THE REPUBLICAN PROPOSAL.

THEY HAD THIS IDEA OF LEGAL PROTECTIONS FOR PEOPLE BASED ON THEIR POLITICAL VIEWS, WHICH IS A REPUBLICAN TALKING POINT TODAY.

THEY FEEL LIKE THEIR VIEWS ARE SILENCED IN MAINSTREAM MEDIA AND BIG BILLS.

THAT WAS LEFT OUT OF THE DEMOCRATIC PROPOSAL.

THAT WOULD BE PROBLEMATIC.

NO ONE SHOULD BE FIRED FOR BEING PRO LIFE OR SAYING BLACK LIVES MATTER.

OF COURSE, POLITICAL VIEWS, YOU CAN STRETCH THAT A LITTLE FURTHER IN TO SOME REALLY DIFFICULT AREAS THAT EMPLOYERS WOULD HAVE TROUBLE WITH.

SO THAT PART OF THEIR PROPOSAL NEVER SEEMED PARTICULARLY WORKABLE.

>> THAT'S THE DISCUSSION, I GUESS, THAT WE'LL HEAR OVER THE NEXT COUPLE WEEKS AS COUNCIL LOOKS AT BOTH OF THESE PLANS.

YOU TALKED ABOUT IT BEING A REPUBLICAN TALKING POINT.

I GUESS IT'S ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE AREAS THAT WE ALREADY HAVE THE PROTECTION UNDER FEDERAL LAW FOR THAT SORT OF THING, CORRECT?

>> RIGHT.

>> I THINK POLITICALLY IT'S SO DIFFERENT THIS TIME AROUND FROM FIVE, SIX YEARS AGO BECAUSE CHARLOTTE IS NOT GOING IT ALONE THIS TIME.

WE'VE SEEN THESE ORDINANCES, SIMILAR ORDINANCES PASSED IN OTHER LARGE NORTH CAROLINA CITIES IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS.

WE HAVEN'T SEEN ANY REAL PUSH BACK FROM RALEIGH.

I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE POLITICAL ISSUE OF THE DAY THAT ARE GETTING REALLY EXPLOSIVE ATTENTION ARE THINGS RIGHT NOW LIKE CRITICAL RACE THEORY, WHICH IS BEING -- IF THERE WERE A LOCAL ORDINANCE THAT DEALT WITH THAT, WE MIGHT SEE 2016-STYLE PUSH BACK FROM RALEIGH.

BUT THIS JUST IS NOT REALLY ON THE RADAR SCREEN LIKE IT WAS FIVE, SIX YEARS AGO.

>> YEAH, I THINK YOU HIT IT ON THE HEAD.

WE HAVE MOVED ON.

THERE'S OTHER THINGS.

EVERYBODY REMEMBERS THE FALL-OUT FROM HB 2.

I'M SURE THAT THEY REMEMBER IN RALEIGH.

IT WAS A BIG POLITICAL PRICE AND DOLLARS AND CENTS PRICE WHEN A LOT OF THINGS CANCELLED IN THE STATE AND NOBODY WANTS TO GO BACK THERE.

WEIGHING THE POSSIBLE POLITICAL BENEFITS VERSUS THE ECONOMIC RISK, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WANTS TO DO THAT.

>> I'LL SAY, JEFF, ONE THING.

>> YEAH.

>> AGAIN, THIS TIME CHARLOTTE AND THE OTHER CITIES AND TOWNS CANNOT LEGISLATE OR MAKE REGULATIONS ABOUT BATHROOMS.

SO THE BIG ISSUE IN 2016 IS OFF THE TABLE.

NOBODY CAN TALK ABOUT IT.

THAT REALLY DOES, YOU KNOW, TURN DOWN THE DEBATE.

>> DIFFUSES THE WHOLE THING.

ONE OTHER THING LET'S MENTION THAT BOTH THE PLANS OUT THERE, THE REPUBLICAN AND THE DEMOCRATIC PLAN, THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY BOTH -- THINKS BOTH PLANS ARE AN IMPROVEMENT FROM NOW.

SO AT LEAST THE GENERAL SENSE OF WHAT BOTH PARTIES ARE LOOKING AT AND SUPPORT IS ALSO BEING SUPPORTED BY THE COMMUNITY ITSELF.

THAT IS A SIGN ALSO THAT MAY MAY NOT HAVE AS A DEBATE AS IN THE PAST.

DANIELLE, YOU WANT THE LAST WORD?

>> SURE.

SOMETHING I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT MAKES THIS PROPOSAL INTERESTING IS THE ENFORCEMENT PIECE.

BASICALLY THE WAY YOU FILE A COMPLAINT THROUGH THE PROPOSAL THAT JUST CAME OUT, YOU'D GO THROUGH THIS CITIZEN BOARD AND THEY COULD BRING THINGS, IF THEY FIND WRONG DOING.

THEY COULD BRING THINGS TO THE CITY ATTORNEY WHO COULD BRING LEGAL ACTION.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS COME UP, THAT'S A CONVOLUTED PROCESS, HOW MANY PEOPLE MIGHT USE THAT.

SO I THINK THAT WILL BE AN INTERESTING THING TO SEE AS WELL.

>> THAT'S THE OTHER BIG QUESTION.

HOW MUCH CHANGE WILL THESE POLICIES RESULT IN ONCE THEY'RE PASSED, WHICHEVER PLAN DOES PASS.

OBVIOUSLY ONE WILL PASS.

HOW MUCH CHANGE WILL THAT REALLY REPRESENT IN THE COMMUNITY.

AGAIN, THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY LIKES WHAT THEY SEE SO FAR.

WE'LL FIND OUT WHAT COUNCIL LIKES AS WE PROCEED ON THIS PROCESS OVER THE NEXT COUPLE WEEKS.

SUPPOSED TO DISCUSS IT NEXT WEEK AND HAVE A PUBLIC INPUT AND POSSIBLY A VOTE THE WEEK AFTER, A TOPIC WE'LL BE RE-VISITING THE NEXT COUPLE SHOWS, I SUPPOSE.

CHARLOTTE POLICE SETTLED WITH PROTESTERS OVER LAST SUMMER'S PROTEST, BLACK LIVES MATTERS PROTEST.

POLICE DEPARTMENTS MADE SOME CHANGES.

THIS PUTS THE FORCE OF LAW BEHIND THOSE CHANGES, RIGHT, MARK?

>> IT DOES.

AT THE SAME TIME THE BIG QUESTION HERE IS WHAT DID THIS SETTLEMENT REALLY CHANGE?

BECAUSE POLICE TOLD US, WE'VE BEEN MAKING THESE CHANGES, GETTING BACK TO -- BASICALLY WHAT HAPPENED.

OF COURSE, THE INCIDENT IN JUNE OF 2020 WHEN POLICE BASICALLY HERDED IN A BUNCH OF PROTESTERS IN AN AREA AND HIT THEM WITH TEAR GAS AND DIDN'T GIVE THEM A WAY OUT CREATED A LOT OF CONTROVERSY.

ALMOST IMMEDIATELY POLICE BEGAN WORKING ON CHANGES.

THE CAN'T WAIT CAMPAIGN.

THEY WERE GOING TO DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY.

THIS SETTLEMENT JUST ANNOUNCED BASICALLY SAYS THAT POLICE WILL NOT KETTLE ANYMORE.

THEY WILL NOT USE TEAR GAS AGAINST PROTESTERS.

THEY WILL MAKE SURE THERE'S AN EXIT OR AN ESCAPE ROUTE IF PEOPLE ARE PROTESTING AND THEY WON'T BLOCK THEM.

THEY'LL GIVE VERY CLEAR IN ENGLISH AND SPANISH COMMANDS THAT YOU NEED TO LEAVE.

GIVE THEM TIME THEN TO LEAVE.

THOSE THINGS -- POLICE SAY LOOK, WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT.

WE'VE COMMITTED TO THOSE CHANGES LOOK BEFORE THE SETTLEMENT BECAME PUBLIC.

SO I THINK WHAT HAPPENS HERE IS THAT THE SETTLEMENT CAME OUT AND ESSENTIALLY RUBBER STAMPED SOME THINGS THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN ESTABLISHED IN CMPD'S PRACTICE.

SO IN THAT SENSE IT'S A WIN-WIN.

POLICE SAY YES, WE'RE DOING THIS AND THEIR OFFICIAL RESPONSE IS WE WELCOME THE COMMENTARY, BUT RIGHT BEHIND THAT IS WELL, WE SORT OF MADE THESE COMMITMENTS ALREADY.

SO BOTH SIDES CLAIMING VICTORY HERE.

WE'LL SEE.

THERE'S NOT BEEN PROTESTS OF THAT NATURE SINCE THEN.

WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> YEAH, ALL OF THESE CHANGES, WHILE THEY MAY BE PART OF WHAT CMPD IS DOING AGAIN, WE HAVE A SETTLEMENT FOR AT LEAST FOUR YEARS.

SO IF THEY DON'T FOLLOW THEIR POLICIES OR CHANGE THEM, THEY DON'T HAVE THAT OPTION UNDER THIS LAWSUIT OR UNDER THIS SETTLEMENT, CORRECT?

>> RIGHT.

I MEAN, ESSENTIALLY CODIFIES IT.

PUTS IT IN PRINT.

YES.

BUT AGAIN, I THINK CMPD SAID WE COMMITTED THESE ALREADY.

>> STEVE, ONE OTHER LOCAL GOVERNMENT THING THAT I KNOW YOU'VE WRITTEN ABOUT RECENTLY AND REPORTED ON.

THE TRANSIT PLAN HAS A LOT OF GOALS.

OBVIOUSLY MOVING PEOPLE.

SPURRING DEVELOPMENT.

THEY ALSO TALK ABOUT IT AS A TOOL WITH ECONOMIC MOBILITY.

I KNOW YOU'VE DONE SOME REPORTING REGARDING WHETHER IT'S THE MOST EFFECTIVE TOOL TO PUT PEOPLE THAT NEED WORK TOGETHER WITH WHERE THE JOBS ARE.

YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT AND RESPONSE FROM CITY HAUL REGARDING YOUR QUESTIONS?

>> YEAH, SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE GO BACK 20 YEARS AGO WHEN THE TRANSIT TAX WAS FIRST APPROVED IN THE LATE 90s, IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE -- THE MAIN THING IS REDUCING CONGESTION.

THERE'S SOME OTHER BENEFITS ABOUT CONNECTING PEOPLE WITH EMPLOYMENT AND ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFITS.

THE MAIN THING IS THE CONGESTION THING.

WE MOVE TO 2021.

ONE OF THE BIG TALKING POINTS IS ECONOMIC MOBILITY.

YOU KNOW, THE RANKING 50 OUT OF 50 FOR MECKLENBURG COUNTY IN MOBILITY.

SO YOU HEAR ABOUT THE TRANSIT PLAN IS THIS WAY TO CONNECT PEOPLE WITH JOBS TO IMPROVE THEIR LIVES.

BUT THERE'S A BIT OF A GROWING RESEARCH AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT SAYS IF WE REALLY WANT TO HELP PEOPLE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE INCOME BRACKET MOVE UP AND DO BETTER THAT HAVING A CAR IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT.

YOUR OWN TRANSPORTATION MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE HERE IN THE WORLD.

ALL OF US CAN TALK ABOUT HOW MUCH WE USE OUR OWN VEHICLES.

SO THERE'S KIND OF A MOVEMENT, ACADEMIC STUDIES SAYING WHEN PEOPLE HAVE A CAR, THEY DO WELL.

THEY DO BETTER.

SO THERE'S TALK, AGAIN, KIND OF A VERY ACADEMIC LEVEL OF HOW CAN WE HELP PEOPLE HAVE THEIR OWN VEHICLE.

MAYBE THAT IS A SUBSIDY TO HELP THEM BUY A USED CAR.

MAYBE THAT IS A POOLED SYSTEM WHERE TWO OR THREE PEOPLE SHARE A CARE THAT LEADS TO A LOT OF ENVIRONMENTAL QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS BECAUSE YOU'RE PUTTING MORE VEHICLES ON THE ROAD.

IT'S AN INTERSTATE THING TO TALK ABOUT.

IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ECONOMIC MOBILITY AND 50 OUT OF 50, IT'S IMPORTANT TO THINK WHAT WOULD HELP PEOPLE THE MOST.

>> RIGHT.

WHEN YOU SPEND $13 BILLION, YOU HOPE THAT A MAJOR PORTION OF THAT $13 BILLION WOULD IMPROVE THE EXACT SITUATION THAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED.

PUTTING PEOPLE TOGETHER WITH JOBS WHERE THE JOBS ARE.

DOES THIS UNDERMINE THE WHOLE -- THROW THIS OUT TO THE PANEL.

DOES THIS UNDERMINE THE WHOLE REASONING BEHIND THE TRANSIT PLAN FOR IS IT JUST ONE SIDE ISSUE THAT GETS DISCUSSED AS WE STEAM FORWARD DOWN THE RAILS HERE?

>> I THINK IT GETS TO HOW MANY THINGS WE ASK TRANSIT TO DO.

PLANNERS WILL TELL YOU IT'S ABOUT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT WHEN YOU PUT A RAIL LINE SOMEWHERE, LOOK AT SOUTH END, LOOK AT NORTH OF UPTOWN.

YOU GET BILLIONS OF DEVELOPMENT.

CONGESTION AND ENVIRONMENTAL PEOPLE WILL TELL YOU IT'S ABOUT GETTING CARS OFF THE ROAD.

GETTING PEOPLE -- GETTING JOBS AND ECONOMIC MOBILITY IS ONE OF THE KEY REASONS FOR THIS.

WE'RE EXPECTING A LOT FROM TRANSIT.

THAT'S THE RETURN ON INVESTMENT THAT WE'RE HOPING TO GET.

YOU KNOW, THE RESEARCH STEVE POINTED TO AND WE'VE TALKED WITH SOME OF THESE EXPERTS AS WELL REALLY SHOWS HEY, IF YOU ONLY WANTED TO DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, JUST HELP PEOPLE GET JOBS, MAYBE GET PEOPLE CARS IS EASIER.

BUT YOU DON'T GET THE OTHER BENEFIT, THE DEVELOPMENT THAT REAL ESTATE FOLKS WANT.

SO IT'S ALL VERY TIED TOGETHER.

WE HEARD MORE ABOUT THE ECONOMIC MOBILITY PIECE THAN ANY OF THE OTHER PIECES THIS PARTICULAR GO-AROUND.

WHICH IS WHY THIS IS A REALLY INTERESTING SUBJECT.

>> MARK?

>> YEAH, I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE THOUGHTS HERE.

ONE IS YOU BRING THE JOBS CLOSER TO PEOPLE.

THAT'S BEEN DISCUSSED.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET ON A BUS OR TRAIN, WHICH IS HUGELY INCONVENIENT.

IF YOU'VE EVER HAD TO DO IT, IF I WERE TO CATCH PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION FROM MY HOUSE, I'D HAVE TO CATCH A BUS, GO TO THE LIGHT RAIL STATION OR TAKE THE BUS ALL THE WAY.

IT'S NOT TERRIBLY FAR FROM WHERE WE LIVE.

GO UP TOWN, VERY EFFICIENT ONCE YOU'RE ON THE TRAIN BUT THEN YOU HAVE TO GO TO ANOTHER BUS.

IT'S 1 1/2 HOURS COMMUTE.

PLANNERS ARE LOOKING AT PUTTING JOBS CLOSER TO PEOPLE.

IS THAT REALISTIC?

PERHAPS.

I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S AT LEAST A TRY.

THE OTHER IS TRANSIT HELPS MARKET CHARLOTTE TO BUSINESSES TO OTHER COMMUNITIES.

WE HAVE A TRAIN SYSTEM THAT THERE IS VALUE THERE IN TERMS OF THE GROWTH OF THE CITY.

I DON'T KNOW THAT IT REALLY HELPS THE PEOPLE THAT NEED THAT RIDE TO WORK.

>> DANIELLE, WE'LL GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD.

GO AHEAD.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK SOMETHING THAT IS REALLY INTERESTING THAT OFTEN GETS BROUGHT UP AND I'M THINKING THE TRANSIT PLAN INCLUDES OTHER THINGS, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LONG TIME TO HAVE A RAIL NETWORK THAT IS EFFECTIVE MOVING PEOPLE AROUND THAT LIST ALL OVER THE CITY.

IF YOU LIVE NORTH OR SOUTH, YOU CAN TAKE IT EVERY DAY.

THAT'S GREAT.

YOU KNOW, I THINK IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO BUILD OUT THESE ROUTES SO YOU HAVE ENOUGH TO TRANSPORT PEOPLE TO ALL THE PLACES THEY NEED TO BE.

WE'RE NOT NEW YORK CITY AND NOT CLOSE TO BEING NEW YORK CITY.

MAYBE ONE DAY.

I THINK IT'S ALSO AN INTERESTING QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS THIS FAR OFF IN THE FUTURE GOAL.

PEOPLE THAT NEED ECONOMIC MOBILITY, PEOPLE THAT NEED TO GET TO THEIR JOBS, IT'S AN IMMEDIATE THING.

THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS YOU HEAR THE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT BUSES.

IT'S A MUCH MORE IMMEDIATE SOLUTION THAN BUILDING A MULTIBILLION DOLLAR LIGHT RAIL LANE THAT TAKES 30 YEARS.

>> YOU SPEND THAT MUCH MONEY, IT'S FRUSTRATING TO WAIT THAT LONG FOR THE RESULTS.

IT'S FRUSTRATING WHEN WE'VE RUN OUT OF TIME.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE SENATE RACE, IN PARTICULAR, THE GOP DEBATE IN ANOTHER SHOW COMING UP SOON.

BUT THIS SHOW IS JUST ABOUT DONE FOR THIS WEEK.

WANT TO THANK EVERYONE FOR JOINING US AS ALWAYS.

GREAT CONVERSATION.

THANKS FOR JOINING US AT HOME AS WELL.

YOU CAN ALWAYS GIVE US YOUR REACTIONS TO THE SHOW OR YOUR COMMENT BE E-MAILING US AT WTVI.ORG.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT TIME ON "OFF THE RECORD."