>>> THIS IS A PRODUCTION OF PBS CHARLOTTE.

>>> THIS WEEK ON "OFF THE RECORD," CHARLOTTE POLICE SAY IT STARTED WITH VIOLENCE AT THREE CMS HIGH SCHOOLS AND ENDED WITH A SHOOTING DEATH OF A 3-YEAR-OLD BOY, WHAT THE COPS, THE SCHOOLS AND THE NAACP ARE DOING ABOUT IT.

>>> A LOT OF COVID STORIES TO TALK ABOUT THIS WEEK, AS USUALING, STARTING WITH THE PRESIDENT SAYING HE'LL ORDER MOST EMPLOYERS TO REQUIRE VACCINES.

THIS AFTER CHARLOTTE CRIME FIGHTERS AND FIREFIGHTERS PROMISED TO FIGHT CITY HALL IF THEY'RE FORCED TO GET VACCINATED.

VAX RATES UP FOR MINORITIES AND COVID HOSPITAL CASES HAVE NOT BEEN THIS HIGH SINCE BEFORE THE VACCINE.

ALSO, MECKLENBURG COUNTY SAYS NOW YOU'LL HAVE TO WEAR A MASK AT CHURCH, TOO.

AND BIG STADIUM CROWDS IN CHARLOTTE GREAT FOR BUSINESS LAST WEEKEND, BUT WHAT IF LAST WEEKEND TURNS INTO A COLLEGE FOOTBALL TRIPLE HEADER SUPER SPREADER?

PLUS, BIG CHANGES COMING TO PLAZA MID WOOD, BUT NOT EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD WANTS TO BECOME ANOTHER SOUTH END.

A LOT TO TALK ABOUT NEXT ON PBS CHARLOTTE.

♪[ MUSIC ]♪ .

>>> AND FROM OUR PBS CHARLOTTE STUDIOS IN HISTORIC PLAZA MID WOOD, I'M JEFF SONIER IN "OFF THE RECORD," IF YOU WATCH THE NEWS, READ THE NEWS AND LISTEN TO THE NEWS, WELL, YOU'LL RECOGNIZE THE NAMES AND FACES AROUND THE VIRTUAL TABLE, DEDRICK RUSSELL FROM WBTV, CHRISTINA FROM THE CHARLOTTE REJ LEDGER, YOU CAN JOIN THE CONVERSATION ANY TIME, E-MAIL YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS TO OFFTHERECORD@WTVI.ORG.

I WANT TO START THE SHOW WITH A QUOTE, HERE'S THE QUOTE.

HOW CAN YOU WAKE UP IN THE MORNING KNOWING THAT YOUR ACTIONS LAST NIGHT TOOK THE LIFE OF A 3-YEAR-OLD?

THAT WAS CHIEF JOHNNY JENNINGS THE POLICE CHIEF AT A PRESS CONFERENCE AT LA POLICE HEADQUARTERS, TALKING ABOUT THE VIOLENCE IN THE STREETS AND IN THE SCHOOLS THAT HAVE SOMEHOW INTERTWINED AND MADE IT A TERRIBLE WEEK FOR THE FAMILIES OF TWO VICTIMS AND A FRIGHTENING WEEK FOR THE KIDS WHO GO TO THE HIGH SCHOOLS AND THE FAMILIES OF THOSE KIDS.

DEDRICK, YOU FOLLOW THE SCHOOLS, WHAT IS GOING ON?

>> I WISH WE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING ON, IF WE CAN PUT OUR FINGER ON IT, BUT EVIDENCE SHOWS, AND INVESTIGATORS SHOW WHATEVER HAPPENED, IT SPILLS OVER AND IT GOES INTO THE SCHOOLS.

YOU KNOW, SO FAR, THIS SCHOOL YEAR, FIVE WEAPONS FOUND ON SCHOOL CAMPUSES AND NOW, THE POLICE ARE CONNECTING THE DEATH OF THAT 3-YEAR-OLD TO THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN THOSE HIGH SCHOOLS.

SO NOW, PEOPLE ARE STEPPING UP AND THE COMMUNITY, IS SAYING THAT, HEY, IF YOU KNOW SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING.

BECAUSE SOMEBODY KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED.

AND SOMEBODY HAS TO KNOW WHAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR SHOOTING ABOUT 150 ROUNDS INSIDE OF ONE HOUSE, KILLING A 3-YEAR-OLD AND INJURING THAT 4-YEAR-OLD.

SO CMS IS TRYING TO DO ALL IT CAN.

BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, IS THAT THE APPEAL GOES OUT TO THE PARENTS.

PARENTS, YOU NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT YOUR CHILDREN, WHAT THEY ARE DOING, YOU NEED TO CHECK THEIR BOOK BAGS, TO SEE IF THEY HAVE GUNS, IF THEY HAVE BEEN OUT LATE AT NIGHT.

IT WILL TAKE A COMMUNITY EFFORT TO FIGHT THIS, BECAUSE CMS AND POLICE, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN'T DO IT BY THEMSELVES >> STEVE?

>> YEAH.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IT'S -- I THINK THAT IT'S -- IT WAS AN INTERESTING WEEK AND SO TRAGIC WITH WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE 3-YEAR-OLD AND THEN COUPLED WITH THE HOMICIDE IN OPTIMIST PARK.

>> RIGHT >> OF THE HURRICANE IDA EVACUEE FROM NEW ORLEANS.

IT -- IT IS -- I CAN'T REMEMBER A WEEK LIKE THIS IN RECENT YEARS, AND I'LL BE CURIOUS TO SEE POLITICALLY WHETHER THERE IS A PUSH ON CITY COUNCIL, WHETHER THERE IS A PUSH IN THE COMMUNITY, TO -- FOR KIND OF -- FOR MORE POLICING, FOR MORE AGGRESSIVE POLICING, BECAUSE REMEMBER, OVER THE LAST DECADE, CMPD HAS REALLY KIND OF CHANGED OR BACKED OFF, POLICE IS WITH A MUCH LIGHTER TOUCH THAN THEY USED TO, ARRESTS ARE DOWN, YOU KNOW, IF YOU GO BACK A DECADE AGO, CMPD MADE ABOUT 32,000 ARRESTS A YEAR.

THEY'RE ON TRACK THIS YEAR FOR ABOUT 12 OR 13,000.

THAT'S KIND OF A DECISION THAT THE COMMUNITY HAS -- THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE COMMUNITY GENERALLY SUPPORTS.

BUT IT'S KIND OF WEEKS LIKE THIS, TRAGEDIES LIKE THIS, THAT IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE >> YEAH, I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING REAL QUICK >> WHETHER THAT -- WHETHER THAT BRINGS ABOUT A CHANGE >> CHRISTINA?

CHRISTINA?

>> YEAH, SO S I MEAN, REALLY, THIS IS -- THERE'S NEVER OBVIOUSLY A GOOD TIME FOR THIS KIND OF CRISIS IN THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, FOR CMS, AS THEY GET THE SCHOOL YEAR OFF TO THE START, ALREADY THEY'RE SEEING A LOT OF CHALLENGES, HAVING TO MAKE UP FOR WHAT HAPPENED LAST YEAR WITH SCHOOL BEING CLOSED FOR SO LONG.

SO, YOU KNOW, FOR CMS, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, JUST ANOTHER HURDLE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO REALLY NEED TO DIG INTO.

>> AND DEDRICK, YOU KNOW, THE -- THEY KEEP TALKING ABOUT THIS VIOLENCE BACK TO THREE HIGH SCHOOLS, HOPE WELL, NORTH MECKLENBURG AND CHAMBERS HIGH, AND IF YOU'VE SEEN THAT VIDEO OF THE SHOOTING SCENE WHERE THE 3-YEAR-OLD DIE, IT'S JUST CHILLING, TWO CARS PULL UP, TWO PEOPLE GET OUT OF EACH CAR AND THEN THE, YOU KNOW, THE FLASHES FROM THE MUZZLE OF THOSE GUNS, OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, IT GOES ON FOR 30-40 SECONDS, JUST CONSTANT GUNFIRE BEFORE THEY JUMP BACK IN THE CARS AND DRIVE OFF.

YOU KNOW, IT IS ALMOST -- YOU KNOW, IT'S -- IT'S MOVIE-LIKE, THIS IS NOT A MOVIE, THIS IS REAL.

AND REALLY TROUBLESOME AND DANGEROUS FOR THE, YOU KNOW, FOR THE KIDS INVOLVED, FOR THE NEIGHBORHOODS INVOLVED.

HOW DOES THIS -- HOW DOES CMS DEAL WITH SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

>> YOU KNOW, THEY ARE SAYING, ASKING THE COMMUNITY, AND PLEADING WITH THE COMMUNITY, OF COURSE, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE EXTRA COUNSELORS THERE.

THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE EXTRA POLICE PRERNS -- PRESENCE THERE, WEAPONS CHECKS THERE, BUT THEY CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH.

BUT THAT'S WHY THEY ARE IMPLORING THE PARENTS TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU HELP US HELP KEEP YOUR CHILD SAFE INSIDE OF THOSE SCHOOLS.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED TO THE COUNCIL MEMBER MALCOLM GRAHAM ABOUT THIS.

AND HE BROUGHT UP AN INTERESTING POINT, SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT COMMUNITIES, THEY MARCH FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE, THEY SAY NOW IS THE TIME FOR COMMUNITIES TO MARCH TO SAY HEY WE NEED TO KEEP PEACE IN OUR STREETS.

AND THE NAACP, YOU KNOW, SAID THAT MAYBE THESE ARE AT-RISK STUDENTS DOING THIS, BUT THIS IS A SAD PART, BECAUSE WE DON'T -- NO SUSPECTS HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED.

AND BEFORE SUSPECTS HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED WE'VE ALREADY LABELLED AND SAID THAT MAYBE THESE KIDS ARE, YOU KNOW, ARE AT-RISK AND THAT'S JUST A -- YOU KNOW, A -- YOU KNOW, A STEREOTYPE THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT CHILDREN WHO ARE AT-RISK WHO ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING, AND JUST, YOU KNOW, PUT A BLANKET STATEMENT THAT THESE ARE AT-RISK STUDENTS AND WE DON'T KNOW YET BECAUSE NO ONE HAS BEEN ARRESTED.

SO I JUST THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS VERY INTERESTING THAT THEY ALREADY PUT THAT OUT THERE EVEN WHEN NO SUSPECTS HAVE BEEN ARRESTED.

>>> A COUPLE OF THINGS, HUNTERSVILLE POLICE ARE MONITORING THE SOCIAL MEDIA BECAUSE APPARENTLY A LOT OF THIS VIOLENCE HAS ITS ROOTS IN SOCIAL MEDIA DISPUTES THAT WIND UP SPILLING INTO THE SCHOOL HALLWAYS AND ULTIMATELY INTO THE STREET OF THESE KIDS AFTER SCHOOL, AND SO, THE POLICE ARE GETTING INVOLVED IN SOME UNORTHODOX WAYS AND AGAIN, AS YOU MENTIONED, THE NAACP CALLING FOR HELP FROM CMS FOR AT-RISK STUDENTS, BUT ALSO, RECOGNIZING THAT THIS IS -- THIS IS A PROBLEM.

STEVE, YOU MENTIONED IT EARLIER ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE CALL FOR MORE POLICING WHEN THINGS LIKE THIS HAPPEN.

WE'VE TALKED ABOUT TIPPING POINTS ON THIS SHOW IN THE PAST.

LAST YEAR, IT WAS THE MURDER RATE THAT WAS GOING SKY HIGH, WOULD THAT BE ENOUGH FOR THE POLITICIANS AND CITY LEADERS TO ACT.

HERE'S ANOTHER TIPPING POINT.

AND AGAIN, WHEN A 3-YEAR-OLD DIES AND VIDEO TO SHOW HOW HE DIED, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT, YOU KNOW, IT REALLY GIVES YOU A GRIM REALIZATION OF WHAT'S GOING ON THERE.

YOUR THOUGHTS ON, YOU KNOW, WHETHER THIS IS SOMETHING THAT COULD PUSH CITY LEADERS, YOU KNOW, TO DO SOMETHING, WHERE THEY HAVEN'T MAYBE DONE SOMETHING IN THE PAST?

>> I THINK THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION AND WE DON'T KNOW, LIKE I SAID BEFORE, JEFF, THE -- THE GENERAL CONSENSUS ON CITY COUNCIL AND CMPD IS TO POLICE WITH A LIGHTER TOUCH.

TO FOCUS ON VIOLENT CRIME, AS OPPOSED TO KIND OF SMALLER ISSUES, NOW, THE FLIP SIDE IS THAT THERE'S PEOPLE WHO ARGUE THAT WHEN YOU -- WHEN POLICING, WHEN POLICE FOCUS ON SMALL CRIMES, IT LEADS TO -- IT LEADS TO A REDUCTION IN BIGGER CRIMES AND SO THAT HAS CERTAINLY BEEN THE PHILOSOPHY OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS, CMPD, BUT, YEAH, LIKE YOU SAID, WILL THIS -- WILL SOMETHING TRAGEDIES LIKE THIS, KIND OF CAUSE A REASSESSMENT, I DON'T KNOW?

WE'LL SEE.

>> DEDRICK, DO YOU WANT TO WRAP US UP HERE?

>> YEAH, I DO AND THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT SAFETY IS TOP PRIORITY, BUT ALSO, TEACHING AND LEARNING, TEACHING AND LEARNING, SUFFERING BECAUSE OF THIS, BECAUSE PARENTS HAVE CALLED US AND I'VE TALKED TO THE PARENTS, WHERE THEY ARE KEEPING THEIR KIDS HOME FROM SCHOOL BECAUSE THE PARENTS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR CHILD'S SAFETY GOING TO THOSE SEVERAL HIGH SCHOOLS.

SO, YOU KNOW, WHILE WE'RE TRYING TO HUNT DOWN THE MURDER, TEACHER AND LEARNING IS SUFFERING BECAUSE THIS IS THE THIRD YEAR WHERE TEACHING AND LEARNING IS HAPPENING DURING A PANDEMIC, AND THIS IS ANOTHER SCHOOL YEAR WHERE IT'S HAPPENING DURING INCREASED VIOLENCE.

SO SOMETHING HAS GOT TO GIVE BECAUSE WE'VE GOT TO SAFE THIS GENERATION.

>> YEAH, THESE ARE THE KINDS OF STORIES YOU WISH YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO TALK ABOUT BUT THEY SEEM TO KEEP COMING UP OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

WE'RE NOT IGNORING COVID, IT'S A TOPIC EVERY SINGLE WEEK, AND THIS WEEK, LET'S START OFF THE DISCUSSION WITH WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAID YESTERDAY THAT APPARENTLY, HE'S GOING TO PUT FORWARD AN ORDER THAT WOULD INSTITUTE OSHA RULES THAT WOULD REQUIRE MOST EMPLOYERS TO MANDATE VACCINES FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES.

CHRISTINA, THE LEDGER WATCHESES THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY PRETTY CLOSELY, AND ANY THOUGHTS ON HOW THIS IS GOING TO AFFECT LOCAL EMPLOYERS IN PARTICULAR?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, WE'VE BEEN SEEING REALLY A STEADY UPTICK IN THE NUMBER OF EMPLOYERS THAT ARE MANDATING VACCINES FOR THEIR WORKFORCE, YOU KNOW, IT'S SUCH A BIG ISSUE IN TERMS OF GETTING OFFICES BACK OPEN AND HAVING PEOPLE FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE COMING BACK TO WORK, YOU KNOW, SO WE'RE REALLY -- THE NUMBERS JUST KEEP GOING UP IN TERMS OF THE BUSINESSES THAT SAY, HEY, LISTEN, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE PART OF OUR IN-PERSON COMMUNITY, YOU'RE GOING TO -- YOU'RE GOING TO VACCINATE.

AND THAT'S JUST GOING TO BE A REQUIREMENT OF YOUR EMPLOYMENT.

>> YEAH, AND IT KIND OF, I GUESS, GIVES THOSE BUSINESS -- OFF THE HOOK, I MEAN, BEFORE, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD TO DEAL WITH THE EMPLOYEES THAT WERE RESISTING THIS SORT OF THING, NOW, YOU CAN EITHER BLAME OR CREDIT THE PRESIDENT FOR MANDATING THIS FOR LARGE EMPLOYER, I GUESS THAT DOES KIND OF MAKE IT EASIER FOR SOME OF THESE EMPLOYERS WHO HAVEN'T BEEN SURE HOW TO APPROACH THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S AMAZING, WE DID REPORTING ABOUT THIS A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, WE TALKED TO A LOT OF EMPLOYMENT EXPERTS AND THEY SAID, WELL, IT WILL BE HARD FOR COMPANIES, FOR BUSINESSES TO MANDATE, YOU KNOW, THEIR EMPLOYEES TO DO.

YOU KNOW, TO TAKE A VACCINE.

THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF HE HAS TANS ABOUT IT, BUT, BOY, THINGS HAVE CHANGED A LOT IN THE COUPLE OF MONTHS, A POINT FOR LARGE EMPLOYER, ALMOST YOU FOR -- IT'S JUST SO PREVALENT RIGHT NOW AND IT'S PRETTY HARD TO IMAGINE THAT JUST A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO WE WERE THINKING THAT THAT WOULD BE VERY HARD FOR EMPLOYERS TO DO, TO SAY TO THEIR WORKFORCES, YOU KNOW, GET THE SHOT OR HEAD OUT THE DOOR.

>> YEAH.

DEDRICK?

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THIS, IT MAY WORK BECAUSE WE KNOW DELTA AIRLINES, THEY SAID THAT IF YOU DON'T GET THE VACCINE, WE'RE GOING TO ADD $200 TO YOUR HEALTHCARE.

AND, YOU KNOW, SO FAR, THEY'RE SAYING THAT BECAUSE OF THAT MANDATE, YOU KNOW, IT INCREASED 20% MORE PEOPLE GOT THE VACCINE.

SO, YOU KNOW, WHILE SOME PEOPLE ARE CONCERN ABOUT THIS, YOU KNOW, I GUESS THAT THE PRESIDENT SAYS THAT HE'S LOOKING AT THE BIGGER PICTURE, HE SAYS WE WANT KIDS TO STAY IN SCHOOL, WE WANT OUR ECONOMY TO BOUNCE BACK, AND IN ORDER FOR THAT TO HAPPEN, MORE PEOPLE HAVE TO GET VACCINATE.

SO A LOT OF GOVERNORS HAVE ALREADY -- AND POLITICIANS HAVE ALREADY SPOKEN OUT AGAINST THIS SAYING THAT THIS IS NOT THE AMERICA THAT WE WANT, FREE CHOICE SHOULD HAPPEN.

BUT ALSO PEOPLE WANT TO HAVE A CHOICE TO LIVE AS WELL.

>> BEFORE THE PRESIDENT SPOKE, THE FOP, THE GROUP THAT REPRESENTS THE CHARLOTTE POLICE OFFICERS AND THE FIREFIGHTERS ASSOCIATION, THEY SENT A LETTER TO CITY HALL AND THEY'RE NOT TOO PLEASED WITH THE CONCEPT OF BEING FORCED INTO A VACCINATION, STEVE, I DON'T KNOW IF WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAID THIS WEEK CHANGES THAT, OR NOT, BUT WHAT'S YOUR SENSE ON THE PUSH BACK FROM THE LARGER WORK GROUPS WITHIN CITY HALL ON THIS.

>> YEAH, SO IT WAS LIKE YOU SAID, IT WAS THE POLICE UNION, THE FIREFIGHTERS UNION, AND ALSO, A PUBLIC SERVICE UNION THAT REPRESENTS A LOT OF WORKERS IN SOLID WASTE, CHARLOTTE WATER, SOME TRANSIT EMPLOYEES, SO AND THEY SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, NO, WE DO NOT AGREE WITH MANDATES.

BUT AGAIN, THIS STORY MOVES SO FAST, JUST A FEW DAYS LATER, THE PRESIDENT COMES OUT AND ISSUES HIS OWN MANDATE.

I THINK THAT -- I THINK THAT THE -- THAT THE CITY AND THE COUNTY WILL BE COMING WITH THEIR OWN MANDATES SOON.

BECAUSE THEIR VACCINATION RATES ARE NOT PARTICULARLY GOOD.

THE CITY OF CHARLOTTE, I BELIEVE, WAS AT 63% PARTIALLY VACCINATED.

THAT WAS BELOW THE COUNTY AVERAGE.

BELOW THE STATE AVERAGE.

AND YOU THINK, YOU KNOW, KIND OF A LEAD BY EXAMPLE WAY, THAT, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS THE CITY AND THE COUNTY SHOULD BE HIGHER.

THE COUNTY THIS WEEK PUT OUT ITS OWN SURVEY, I BELIEVE THEY WERE AT 66%.

THEY PATTED THEMSELVES ON THE BACK, COMPARING THEMES TMZ -- THEMSELVES SAYING THEIR VACCINATION RATE WAS HIGHER.

NOW, MECKLENBURG COUNTY DOES NOT EMPLOY CHILDREN.

SO THEY SHOULD REALLY BE COMPARING THEIR VACCINATION RATE TO THAT OF THE ADULTS IN THE COUNTY.

AND IT'S -- THAT MAKES THEM ABOUT THE SAME.

SO NO REAL STANDOUTS IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT >> YEAH, THE DEPARTMENT BY DEPARTMENT, THE NUMBERS ARE KIND OF INTERESTING, I KNOW MEDIC, IT'S ABOVE 80%, THAT'S TO BE EXPECTED BECAUSE THEY'RE THE FOLKS ON THE FRONTLINES AND UNDERSTAND THE SERIOUSNESS OF THE DISEASE AND THE REASON FOR THE VACCINE, BUT CHARLOTTE FIRE DEPARTMENT, 49% VACCINATION RATE.

THE POLICE DEPARTMENT 63% VACCINATION RATE.

IS IT YOUR SENSE THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS KIND OF A MOOT POINT NOW, IF THIS IS GOING TO BE FEDERALLY MANDATED, AND THAT ALL LARGE EMPLOYERS, ALL EMPLOYERS OF MORE THAN 100 GOING TO HAVE TO REQUIRE THE VACCINE THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS PROMISE OF A FIGHT IS KIND OF MOOT NOW?

AT CITY HALL?

>> I THINK SO, I THINK THERE WILL BE PRESSURE FROM CITY COUNCIL AND COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND I THINK THAT WE'LL BE SEEING MANDATES IN THE CITY AND COUNTY COMING SOON.

I MEAN, YOU MENTIONED THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, THEY REALLY PULLED DOWN THE CITY'S AVERAGE, THEY'RE THE SECOND-LARGEST DEPARTMENT IN THE CITY, THEY HAVE 1200 EMPLOYEES, AND WHEN THEY WERE AT 49%, THAT WAS A BIG LIKE I SAID, THAT REALLY PULLED EVERYONE DOWN >> DEDRICK?

>> YEAH, AND IN SPEAKING OF THE CHARLOTTE FIRE DEPARTMENT, EVERYBODY IS NOT GETTING PUSH BACK ON THIS, I TALKED TO A MEMBER FROM THE FRATERNAL ORDER OF PROGRESSIVE FIREFIGHTERS, AND THAT IS THE GROUP OF BLACK AND BROWN FIREFIGHTERS HERE IN CHARLOTTE, AND THEY SAY THAT, HEY, WE -- WE ENCOURAGE OUR PEOPLE TO GET VACCINATED.

AND THERE WILL BE NO PUSHBACK, IF THERE IS A MANDATE, THAT WE WILL NOT, YOU KNOW, COMPLAIN OR PUSH BACK.

SO IT'S JUST INTERESTING HOW SOME FIRST RESPONDERS ARE, YOU KNOW, GETTING PUSH BACK AND THEN, OTHER FIRST RESPONDERS ARE SAYING, THAT, NO, WE AGREE, WE ARE WITH YOU 100%, IT WILL BE INTERESTING THAT EVEN THOUGH THE ORGANIZATION CAME OUT WITH PUSHBACK, IT'S JUST INTERESTING, IF WE WOULD TAKE A POLL OF EVERYBODY WHO IS A PART OF THAT ORGANIZATION, IF THEY FEEL THE SAME WAY AS THE LEADERSHIP FEELS >> YEAH, HEY, ONE LAST QUESTION TO YOU, CHRISTINA, THIS ORDER BY THE PRESIDENT IS GOING TO AFFECT ALL LARGE EMPLOYERS, 100 EMPLOYEES OR MORE.

I GUESS IT WILL PUT PRESSURE ON SMALLER BUSINESSES AS WELL, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I WOULD A ASSUME SO.

YOU KNOW, THINK ABOUT THE SMALL WORKPLACES IN THE PROXIMITY THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO EACH OTHER, I THINK IN A LOT OF CASES, SMALL BUSINESSES ARE GOING TO FEEL LIKE THEY NEED TO ALSO GET LOCK STEP WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE LARGER SCALE.

>> YEAH >> I WOULD EXPECT THAT WE'LL SEE MORE OF THAT >> JUST A COUPLE OF NUMBERS ON VACCINATION RATES BY THE WAY, ATRIUM SAID THIS WEEK THAT THEIR VAX RATE FOR BLACK AND HISPANIC PATIENTS DOUBLED BETWEEN JUNE AND AUGUST, COMPARED TO DECEMBER THROUGH JUNE.

WHICH IS GOOD NEWS.

BECAUSE THOSE ARE UNDERREPRESENTED GROUPS, OBVIOUSLY, IN THE VACCINATION WORLD.

BUT STATEWIDE, WE'RE SEEING THE INFECTION RATE UP ABOVE 15% NOW AND APPARENTLY, WE'RE AT THE HOSPITALIZATION RIGHT NOW CLOSE TO WHERE WE WERE BACK IN JANUARY WHEN WE THOUGHT THAT THE VACCINE WAS AT ITS PEAK BUT IT'S PEAKING AGAIN, AND THAT MEANS MORE FOLKS IN THE HOSPITAL AS WELL.

AND THAT'S A SHAME.

STEVE, YOU COVERED COUNTY COMMISSION THIS WEEK, AND THEY EXTENDED OR EXPANDED, I GUESS, THEIR MASK MANDATE TO AN AREA THAT THEY HAVEN'T REALLY DIPPED THEIR TOE IN TO BEFORE, TALK ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON NOW IN THE CHURCHES.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

SO WHEN THE COUNTY INSTITUTED THE MASK MANDATE LAST MONTH, THEY HAD A SPECIFIC EXEMPTION FOR INDOOR RELIGIOUS SERVICES AS WELL AS FUNERALS AND WEDDINGS AND THEY DID THAT BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T FEEL THEY WERE ON SOLID LEGAL GROUND TO REQUIRE PEOPLE AT RELIGIOUS SERVICES TO WEAR MASKS.

THAT WAS ALWAYS I MEAN A REALLY CAUTIOUS DECISION THEY MADE BECAUSE THE LAW, IT'S UNCLEAR HOW COURTS WOULD HAVE RULED.

COURTS HAVE SAID THAT THE MASS GATHERING LIMITS PLACED ON CHURCHES AND OTHER RELIGIOUS SERVICES WERE UNCONSTITUTIONAL, BUT NO ONE IS REALLY DETERMINED WHETHER YOU CAN FORCE PEOPLE TO WEAR MASKS.

AND SO YOU HAD A GROUP OF COMMISSIONERS WHO REALLY PUSHED BACK ON THAT.

AND IT WAS A 5-4 VOTE TO REMOVE THAT EXEMPTION AND REQUIRE PEOPLE AT RELIGIOUS SERVICES TO WEAR MASKS.

GEORGE DUNLAP, THE COMMISSION CHAIR, VOTED NO.

HE FELT LIKE IT WAS -- IT WAS GOVERNMENT OVERREACH.

HE TWEETED YESTERDAY, I BELIEVE, HE -- I WAS LOOKING AT IT, I BELIEVE HE SAID JESUS WOULDN'T HAVE TO WEAR A MASK.

SO THIS WAS A REALLY TIGHT VOTE.

AND, YOU KNOW, ONE MORE THING, I MEAN, IT'S INTERESTING, YOU HAD THIS HUGE FIGHT WHEN THE COUNTY WAS MAKING PRIVATE SCHOOLS, PRIVATE RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS WEAR MASK, WITHIN THEIR PER VIEW TO DO THAT, BUT NOT CHURCHES, IT WASN'T CONSISTENT.

>> THE CHURCHES SAY THEY DO A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF POLICING THEMSELVES BUT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER LAST YEAR, THE BIGGEST OUTBREAK THAT MECKLENBURG HAS SEEN WITH COVID WAS AT A CHURCH, THE UNITED HOUSE OF PRAYER HAD 200 CASES, 12 DEATHS.

AND LED A LOT OF PEOPLE TO WONNER, YOU KNOW, IF ONE POINT WE HAD NO CHURCH SERVICES AT ALL.

SO ANYWAY, THIS MASK MANDATE, I GUESS, IS -- IT'S NOT OFFICIAL YET, BUT IT WILL BE OFFICIAL SOON.

WHEN CAN THE ACTUAL RULE -- WHEN CAN WE EXPECT THAT TO TAKE PLACE, STEVE?

>> I BELIEVE IT WILL BE LATER THIS MONTH.

AND, YOU KNOW, JUST ONE MORE THING TO ADD TO THAT.

BACK A MONTH AGO BEFORE MECKLENBURG DID ITS NEW MASK MANDATE, ORANGE COUNTY AND DURHAM COUNTY DID ONE AS WELL.

THEY DID NOT HAVE EXEMPTIONS FOR CHURCHES, THEY WERE SAYING IT APPLIED TO EVERYONE >> SO MECKLENBURG IS NOT NECESSARILY OUT FRONT ON THIS, BUT MAYBE FOLLOWING THE LEAD AROUND OTHER COUNTIES THAT HAVE DONE IT SUCCESSFULLY.

ONE LAST COVID ITEM TO TALK ABOUT THIS WEEK, LAST WEEKEND'S BIG FOOTBALL WEEKEND WAS A LOT OF FUN.

FULL STADIUM CROWDS.

EXCITING GAMES.

GOOD FOR BUSINESS.

BUT THE HEALTH DIRECTOR SAID THIS IS NOT COVID FRIENDLY, THIS IS NOT THE KIND OF AN EVENT THAT SHE COULD ENDORSE, WHEN SHE SAW THOSE CROWDS AND THOSE MOSTLY UNMASKED CROWDS, I KNOW THAT THE PRESIDENT'S SPEECH TALKED ABOUT ALSO PART OF HIS PLAN IS GOING TO BE VACCINATIONS OR NEGATIVE TESTS REQUIRED FOR LARGE ENTERTAINMENT VENUES.

ANY THOUGHTS ON WHAT THAT'S GOING TO MEAN FOR STADIUM CONCERTS COMING THIS FALL, THE PANTHERS THAT KICK OFF THIS SUNDAY?

IS THAT THE EXPECTATION THAT THIS IS WHERE WE'RE HEADED ON THIS?

I KNOW SOME OF THE BIG CONCERT PROMOTERS ARE DOING THIS ALREADY.

ANYONE HAVE THOUGHTS ON LAST WEEKEND OR WHAT'S COMING BEYOND THIS WEEKEND?

>> I GUESS WE JUST HAVE TO -- I GUESS WE HAVE TO WAIT BECAUSE THE CLEMSON AND GEORGIA GAME SOLD OUT, 70,000 PEOPLE, FANS, SO I GET 14 DAYS, WE WILL SEE WHAT WILL HAPPEN AND IN THE PARK, ESPN THERE, SO WE ARE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE WHO DID ARRIVE THERE, IF THEY WERE ALREADY VACCINATED AND ALREADY TAKEN PRECAUTIONS, BUT THIS WILL BE THE TELLTALE SIGN.

I LOOK AT THE MUSICAL CONCERT IN CHICAGO, WHERE THOUSANDS OF FANS WERE THERE AND EXPERTS SAID THAT IT REALLY WAS NOT A SUPER SPREADER EVENT.

SO WE JUST HAVE TO SEE, YOU KNOW, THE BOTTOM LINE IS, EVERYONE JUST, YOU KNOW, HAS TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

AND I GUESS WE'RE GETTING THE HAVES AND THE HAVE NOT'S, IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE VACCINE, YOU CANNOT DO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE WHO DO HAVE THE VACCINE HAVE, AND I GUESS THAT IS A MESSAGE THAT THAT IS ONE OF THE PERKS OF GETTING VACCINATED AND GETTING THE SHOTS, BECAUSE ONCE YOU DO THAT, THEN YOU'LL BE ABLE TO ENJOY AND ENJOY SOME TYPE OF A SENSE OF NORMALCY.

>> YEAH, YOU SAW THOSE CROWDS AND THEY WERE HAVING FUN, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE HOPE IT WAS SAFE.

I WAS AT THE UNCC DUKE GAME AND THEY HAVE A SIGN SAYING YOU HAVE TO WEAR A MASK TO GET IN LINE, TICKET LINE, TO GO THROUGH THE GATES, BUT ONCE YOU'RE IN THE STADIUM, THERE WAS VIRTUALLY NOBODY WEARING A MASK.

AS YOU SAID, IF THEY HAVE BEEN VACCINATED, HOPEFULLY WE WON'T SEE SUPER SPREADER STATISTICS COMING.

BUT THAT'S A FINGERS CROSSED SITUATION RIGHT NOW, I SUPPOSE.

>>> THIS WEEK IN PLAZA MIDWOOD, A BIG ANNOUNCEMENT FOR A BIG DEVELOPMENT THAT ON PAPER LOOKS TERRIFIC.

BUT SOME OF THE NEIGHBORS NOT SO EXCITED ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE SEEING COMING TO THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD.

CHRISTINA, I KNOW THE LEDGER HAS WRITTEN ABOUT THIS, THIS WEEK, AND ABOUT THE CONCEPT OF NEIGHBORHOODS SEEING BIG DEVELOPMENT COMING IN AND CHANGING THE NEIGHBORHOODS, WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHAT'S GOING ON IN PLAZA MIDWOOD.

>> IT'S 12 ACRESES IN THE HEART OF PLAZA MIDWOOD RIGHT AT CENTRAL AND PECAN.

AND, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW, IF YOU GO THERE, IT'S -- THERE ARE BUSINESSES AND IT'S A LARGE SURFACE PARKING LOT THAT PEOPLE ARE AFRAID TO PARK IN BECAUSE THEY OFTEN GET TOWED.

AND SO, WHAT WILL TAKE ITS PLACE WILL BE JUST A REALLY BIG DEVELOPMENT, MIXED USE, IT WILL HAVE A BIG HOTEL AND RETAIL, IT WILL HAVE LARGE APARTMENTS, YOU KNOW, SPACE, AND SO IT'S JUST REALLY GOING TO CHANGE OF COURSE THE LOOK AND THE FEEL OF THAT AREA.

YOU KNOW, LIKE ANY LARGE DEVELOPMENT, ESPECIALLY IN AN AREA OF TOWN LIKE PLAZA MIDWOOD, THAT HAS ITS OWN CHARM AND IT HAS ITS OWN FEEL AND ITS OWN COMMUNITY, NOT EVERYBODY IS IN LOVE WITH THIS IDEA.

YOU KNOW, PLAZA MIDWOOD IS KIND OF ITS OWN SPACE IN OUR CITY AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO LIVE AND WORK THERE SAY THAT THIS FEELS A LITTLE BIT SOUTH END-DI TO THEM.

>> YEAH, IT LOOKS AND SOUNDS LIKE A SOUTH END PROJECT.

WE'VE HEARD THE SAME THING IN NODA WITH OTHER PROJECTS, RIGHT >> NODA, NODA, ON PLAZA MIDWOOD, THEY HAVE INDIVIDUAL CHARACTERS, RIGHT?

IN CHARLOTTE.

AND NODA, THERE'S A -- A PLAN TO PUT A DEVELOPMENT, A MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE THE CENTRAL RAIL YARD IN SOUTH END.

AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WO LIVE IN NODA SAY THAT THEY CHOSE THAT COMMUNITY BECAUSE THEY LIKE ITS CHARACTER, THEY LIKE ITS MILL HOUSES, THEY LIKE WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE WITH REHAB SPACE, LIKE OPTIMIST HALL.

AND THEY SAY THAT HEY, IF WE WANTED TO LIVE IN A SOUTH END, WE WOULD HAVE MOVED TO SOUTH END.

YOU KNOW, KIND OF THE SAME DISCUSSIONS HAPPENING THERE.

>> YEAH, THAT'S A DISCUSSION THAT WILL CONTINUE TO HAPPEN AS THESE NEIGHBORHOODS BECOME MORE AND MORE POPULAR WITH THE DEVELOPERS.

BY THE WAY, THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPER IS THE SAME ONE THAT'S DOING THE EASTLAND MALL PROJECT AS WELL, SO THEY HAVE HISTORY HERE IN CHARLOTTE, CHARLOTTE-BASED DEVELOPER AS WELL.

A COUPLE OF SECONDS LEFT.

MAN VERSUS MACHINE.

THE LEDGER DID A RACE THIS WEEK BETWEEN THE NEW STREETCAR LINE AND A AN ACTUAL RUNNER AND THE RESULTS ARE WHAT?

>> WELL, RUNNER BEAT THE MACHINE.

BELIEVE IT OR NOT.

WE HAD AN ATTORNEY WHO IS AN AVID RUNNER HERE IN CHARLOTTE, WE STARTED OUT AT 7:30 IN THE MORNING LAST WEEK, AND SHE TOOK OFF.

SHE ACTUALLY GAVE THE TRAIN A SMALL HEAD START.

SHE BEAT IT BY ALMOST 8 MINUTES.

SHE CRUSHED THE MACHINE.

WHAT WE FOUND IS RUNNERS CAN KEEP RUNNING, EVEN THOUGH, YOU KNOW, THAT -- THAT STREETCAR HAS TO GO BEHIND, YOU KNOW, GET STOPPED BY THE TRAFFIC.

RUNNER NEEDED TO STOP AT STOPLIGHTS.

>> THE LESSON LEARNED THERE IS TAKE THE STREETCAR, BUT IF YOU CAN RUN, YOU'LL PROBABLY GET THERE QUICKER, RIGHT?

[ LAUGHTER ] >> YOU MIGHT NEED A SHOWER WHEN YOU ARRIVE >> YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

HEY, WE'RE OUT OF TIME, FOLKS, BUT I DO APPRECIATE Y'ALL JOINING US THIS WEEK, GOOD DISCUSSION, THANKS FOR JOINING US AT HOME AS WELL.

IF YOU WANT TO SEND YOUR COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS TO US, JUST ADDRESS THEM TO "OFF THE RECORD"@WTVI.ORG.

THANKS FOR JOINING THIS TIME AROUND AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT TIME AROUND RIGHT HERE ON CBS CHARLOTTE.

♪[ MUSIC ]♪ .

>>> A PRODUCTION OF PBS CHARLOTTE.