- Welcome to our place Our Time.

We'll lead off this edition with a visit to a biographer of Thomas Jefferson.

We'll tour a house of music where sweet sounds of opera and jazz are being preserved or study, and we'll hear the lo and consort perform.

Here's your host, Vianne Webb.

- Alf MAPP tells the story about himself that when he was five years old, he didn't like reading books, but his greatest ambition even then was to write and to have other people read him.

Now six books and many, many articles and essays later.

Alf Map has a national audience for his writing.

Last year, Alf Map, who is also eminent professor of English at Old Dominion University, published the first of a two volume biography of Thomas Jefferson.

The book, which was Suggestively Subtitled, a Strange Case of Mistaken Identity, was a book of the month club selection and was named on the list of the best 40 books of 1987.

Mr. Map hopes to have his second volume on Jefferson ready for readers in two years.

In the meantime, he's working on a history of his beloved native city of Portsmouth.

Tim Morton visited with Alf Map in his Portsmouth home.

- Alf map grew up knowing Thomas Jefferson and other historic figures in the warm light of family stories.

They were always people of flesh and blood to him to preserve and pass on.

That knowledge was an ambition he had from childhood, as was another ambition to live on land.

His forebears owned MAPP is an 11th generation Virginian, and he and his wife Ramona, have built a handsome Tidewater Georgian home on land.

He told me about - It, well, at least a part adjacent to it was the first Royal grant to my mother's first ancestor in this area.

William Kearney back in 1664, and then he was able to add this acreage to it, and it remained in the family until down into the 1920s, one branch or another, the family.

And then in 1976, we had a chance to buy back an acre and a half of it here, and it meant a great deal to me.

I loved the site anyway.

I would rather have had the site than any other for other reasons, but then for sentimental reasons as well, it meant a good deal.

- Map graciously showed us around his land, even though it was blowing a half gale off the western branch of the Elizabeth River.

And the historian took the time to reflect.

- I like to reflect on the fact, Tim, that this place looks essentially the way it did back in 1608 when Captain John Smith first mapped it - Inside Map's house.

People from history such as this 18th century ancestor, a well-known orator, looked down on the dining room.

And there are small things lovingly preserved that have stories to tell.

- There's something, by the way over here that had a good deal to do with my becoming a biographer.

And that is this little luster wear cream picture, which was on the table, and which George Washington and Lafayette took cream out of when they had dinner with my mother's, mother's, father's, people in Bowling Green up in Caroline County, Virginia.

And this made them seem very real to me, very close because it had a relationship with the family, and I had a great desire to write about historical figures in a way that would make them seem real.

- We proceeded along with much other lively conversation to the den where we had set up for our interview and where Map does much of his writing, he draws inspiration even from his writing chair for it also has a story to tell - That was a chair built, especially for Gallia Grow, who was the second youngest speaker of the United States House of Representatives.

Henry Clay was the youngest, and Gallia grow was just too big to fit into the chair used by his predecessors of his successors.

So this one was made for him.

Alf, - This is wonderful, but I, I wanna talk about Thomas Jefferson.

That's what I'm here for.

Well, - I'm always very happy to talk about that - Gentleman.

Tim, a strange case of mistaken identity, a mysterious and suggestive subtitle.

Why?

- Well, I hoped it would be provocative that a lot of people would pick up the book and look into it for that reason.

And that appears to have worked.

But I had a very serious preference too.

I wanted to dramatize the fact that I thought that the Jefferson of the mythology and the Jefferson, who in some cases has been perpetuated by politicians in their speeches and even some historians in their writing, is not the real Jefferson - Well, - Well, Jefferson, for one thing is pictured frequently as a statesman who incidentally was an artist and a scholar as a sort of Dante activity.

And I'm convinced on the other hand, and I, I think I make a pretty fair case fight in the book, that Jefferson was by nature and aptitude, an artist and a scholar.

But he lived in a time when it was expected that if one had enjoyed special advantages, and Jefferson certainly had, he should render public service in exchange.

So he was very deeply imbued with his spirit.

And I think he put his marvelous talents to work to turn himself into a great statesman.

And then the other thing is that Jefferson is so frequently pictured as an easily categorized radical or liberal at least.

Then you got another group that thinks that he was a thoroughgoing conservative.

And I think Jefferson himself would've resisted the idea of pigeonholing in that sense, I think that he was an idealist who sought to serve humanity, but he was a pragmatist in the service of those aims.

And that Jefferson sometimes will make a decision that seems conservative, sometimes a decision that seems liberal.

But the consistency is he's thinking about human welfare and he is thinking about individual liberty.

- You make the point toward the end that there are these consistencies in Jefferson's character.

One is, is his affection, his human affection for other people, and that it is those consistencies that rise above the partisan differences, isn't it?

And it makes, - Yes, and Jefferson himself often said that one of the most deplorable things he knew was that in Philadelphia, men who had been good friends for years would cross the street to avoid speaking to each other because of some political difference.

And he thought they had so much more in common beyond this, that this was a great pity.

And frequently when Jefferson would find himself at odds with one of his old colleagues, it was Jefferson.

Whether he was more greatly at fault or not, who, who made the first over to him, - Jefferson as an artist, we know him as a president, president of a founder of a university statesman, secretary of state diplomat philosopher even.

But not as an artist in the modern sense, do we?

But this is what you see him as - Well, of course.

He was a very great architect.

Yes.

In fact, a jury established by the American Institute of Architects in 1976 voted him as the American architect who had made the greatest contribution.

Frank Lloyd Wright second, but he was far behind Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson's designed for the University of Virginia being the chief thing then.

But Monticello being a runner up.

And then Jefferson was a literary artist as well.

And he was very conscious of this fact because I found one letter that he had written to Tom Payne, in which he said, you are at this time the best writer in America with the possible exception of your obedient servant Thomas Jefferson.

And history generally gives Jefferson the Palm that he was the, the best American writer at that time.

- You know, that brings up a point, did Jeff Jefferson did have a good sense of humor, didn't he?

- Yes.

And that is another thing that is quite different in my interpretation from most, many interpretations pictured him as being quite humorous.

But I found humor over and over again in his letters.

Not usually the leg slapping salt, but still a, a gentle humor that would make you chuckle as you read it.

- Alf, you have spent weeks, months, years now with Jefferson and you've come back from that to live in 1988.

What have did you bring back that you think Jefferson would want to say to us today?

What dangers in our life today do you think Jefferson would be, would particularly see and warn against?

- Well, of course he would be very alert to any infringement of individual liberty.

But then aside from that, I think Jefferson would be very concerned with the fact that sometimes in wanting to be sure that the average person is, is given his proper place in society, which Jefferson was absolutely far, that at the same time, people should not be encouraged to be as average as they could be, to take a kind of refuge in, in being indistinguishable from the herd.

But that on the other hand, Jefferson recognized that each person had something in him that was not average.

And he would encourage people to develop that.

And I think he would deploy the fact that when people are promoted for president of the United States, sometimes the argument is there is he's just like the man next door, or she's just like the woman next door.

Jefferson would say the person next door should strive to be as much as possible.

- Before we leave Alpha mapp, I want to show one other object in his house, a recent gift to the biographer from Mrs. Mapp.

- Thank you, Tim Morton and Alf mapp.

This time of year is always one of the busiest in Hampton Roads for concerts and plays and art exhibitions.

We're going to pause now and take a look at some of the choice events coming up.

Thanks.

In great part to the generosity of Walter Chrysler Jr.

The Chrysler Museum at Norfolk now has an art collection which enjoys a national reputation for excellence.

Mr. Chrysler is still in the business of collecting art.

In recent years, he's turned his attention more to collecting objects about the art of music.

Ray Hickman visited a surprising place near downtown Norfolk where a substantial music library and musical instrument collection is housed - 42,000 cars and trucks a day passed by the head of this little street called Yarmouth Street, a vehicle.

Every two seconds, the noise can be fearsome against the burley rush of downtown Norfolk traffic.

The sign over this house may take you by surprise for a lover of music.

Inside this unpretentious house is a castle of delight.

There are dozens of musical instruments, books about music and records and videotapes, even an illuminated manuscript of medieval musical chant.

Nina Newbie is the director of this amazing enterprise.

Nina, how did, how did this all get started?

- It got started by Walter Chrysler in the fall of 1980.

He decided that the Virginia Opera Association needed someplace where they could research and have access to books, records, an area where they could rehearse, audition, coach.

And this house was empty and it suddenly became the repository for a couple of hundred of records.

Not many and a few books.

- I know you're collecting everything.

Is there a focus to the collection?

- We started to focus with classical music and opera.

We were given a huge collection, a donation of about 6,000 modern contemporary records, and so we decided we'd get into that too.

- Tell me about the record collection.

I know you have 70 eights, 30 threes, you've got things on video, you apparently have everything.

- Everything.

Yes, it's quite large.

We go back to records that were made in the early 20th century.

We have thick Edison records and we have cylinders that actually play.

We have instruments on which everything can be played and they're usable.

We have a lot of 70 eights.

People forget that in order to really hear how somebody like a Caruso sounded in his day, it must be heard on a 78 record.

It cannot be heard replayed on a long play record.

- I know you have a wonderful collection of 70 eights, including something I spied here a little earlier.

It's recording of Enrico Caruso in the last role he sang at the Met.

Yes.

It's Rashelle from IV by Vy.

Can we give it a listen?

- Sure.

Okay.

Then I think we have one of the largest private collections of Caruso records anywhere in the world.

- You're listening to a bit of nostalgia.

Here is Louis Armstrong doing a concert that was pat around the works of W See Handy.

And Mr.

Handy was at this particular concert and was considerably moved hearing so many of his tunes so aptly played by this fine musician.

It's - Terrific stuff.

I'm with Pops Campbell, who is the jazz curator and librarian of the jazz library here.

Pops, by the way, is also a jazz musician.

He's played with the Boston Pops Orchestra.

Is that where you got the name pops - That that is, that's true.

- Is that really?

Okay.

And he also is a very fine drummer.

Pops.

How big is this jazz collection?

Does it go way back?

- Our collection here goes from that particular New Orleans period up through the modern jazz bebop, right up to the fusion and type things that are happening today.

- Alright.

Looking at all of this jazz collection, in fact, everything that's in this house, why is it important?

- It's come to the state now where people can use what we have here by coming in and making use of it, studying the we, we have facilities here for playing the various records.

We have unlimited number of books on jazz.

That would help I think, just as I've mentioned, I think for purely jazz study.

I think that's the main part of it.

- One of the nice things about this jazz collection, in fact, about this whole museum is it isn't just music.

It's incredible memories, memorabilia, photographs, credible posters, pictures of famous people, autographs, everything that makes up a part of our musical history.

A valuable poster is this one by Mark Chaga, made to celebrate the opening in 1966 of the new Metropolitan Opera House at Lincoln Center.

And one of the most valuable pieces in the entire collection is this illuminated manuscript dating from the 11th century.

It was made by Italian monks and shows in medieval notation.

Gregorian chant of greatest interest visually to musicians and probably to children as well, is the museum's collection of musical instruments.

It's a small collection, but it's rapidly growing.

And Marilyn Campbell, who is also Pop's Campbell's daughter, is in the process of taking these instruments out to the schools of Hampton Roads.

Does that mean hands-on for the kids?

They're getting involved in playing these old instruments?

- In some cases they may handle 'em, but for the most part it's professional musicians taking the instruments and playing them For the children, we try to make learning an interesting and enjoyable experience for them.

- My goodness.

What is this instrument here?

- This is a helicon.

It's a 19th century German instrument, similar to a sousaphone, except with the sousaphone.

The bell would be forward and with a helicon the bell is up, - So So it's a brass band marching type instrument?

- Yes, it is.

- And you have other instruments here too.

Are these are some of the instruments that go into the schools, I assume?

- Yes, they are.

- How large is the instrument collection?

How many instruments do you own?

- Approximately 50.

- By the way, this happens to be one of my favorite things in the world.

You think I could play it?

- Yes, you may.

- Really?

Yes.

Okay.

As a disc jockey, I'm compelled to say that we are about to hear, are you from Dixie?

'cause I'm from Dixie too.

- Hello that Ranger.

How do you do?

There's something I'd like to say to you.

Don't be surprised you recognize I No detective, but - Having visited a music library and seen old musical instruments.

We'll turn now to music.

Played on old instruments with us is the Ian consort, which specializes in performing medieval and Renaissance music on instruments from that time.

I love the names of some of the musical instruments we're going to see in here, rackets, crumb, horns, vials, and serpents.

And here is music and sound effects by the Ian consort.

Recently, WHRO Director Joe Pitts was on assignment at the Mariners Museum in Newport News, and he became fascinated with the work of the wood carver OTI Stevens.

Now, a lot of us in Hampton roads have seen and admired Otis Stevens work, even though we probably didn't know that Stevens did it.

For example, Otis Stevens made one of the beautiful figureheads in waterside in downtown Norfolk, and he made a copy of a Mariner's figurehead for the Naval Academy in Annapolis.

Here is Joe Pitt's.

Look at the work of Wood Carver Otis Stevens.

- I started carving when I was about eight years old.

This was a hobby that began with me, and I've been carving about 59 years just as a hobby.

The pieces that I do are go to various people and I enjoy the carving because I like to carve and I also like to make things for people so that they can enjoy 'em.

This particular piece that I'm doing is carve at a hon mahogany and it'll take me approximately 30 working hours to do it from start to block.

The final finished piece, it'll be finished natural with just stain and then hand burnished, and then two coats of pure whack hard wax rubbed in.

The largest two carbons that I've done have been one for the Norfolk Waterside, six foot figurehead, and the other is a five foot polar bear that I did for the Coast Guard Academy Museum that was requested by the graduating class of 1955.

I've also done miniature Calvins down to three quarter inch bus of John Paul Jones, and a lot of things in between.

- I place our time will return in three weeks, and during that period, we certainly hope you'll join us.

We'll be having our annual membership campaign and some very special programming for you.

We hope you'll join us with your dollars and support our place.

Our time will return March 24th and we'll explore underwater archeology.

I'm Vianne Webb.

Thanks for joining us.