<Narrator>: Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina is a cooperative effort among farmers retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture to help consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

The Boyd foundation supporting outdoor recreational opportunities, the appreciation of wildlife, educational programs, and enhancing the quality of life in Columbia, South Carolina and the Midlands at large.

McLeod farms and Mc Bee, South Carolina family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪(opening music)♪ Amanda: Okay, good evening, and welcome to Making It Grow.

We are so glad that you can join us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty.

I'm a Clemson horticulture agent.

and I get to come here and be with Terasa Lott, my co host.

and Terasa your day job as I call it is the Master Gardener Coordinator.

and I think you're trying to... Clemson wants you to try to help there to be some coordination.

So everybody's kind of learning the same thing.

You know, we need to learn some of the same things that are so important.

Terasa: We do.

So we're looking for that balance and creating some general a general framework that works across the state.

but as you know, South Carolina is very different from the coast to the mountains.

So we also want that flexibility at the local level to craft a program that meets their needs.

Okay.

Amanda: Well, thank you for doing all the things that you do for your many hats that you wear and Vicky Bertagnolli, you work with HGIC but you still have some consumer horticulture, um, relationships.

and I think you like running into people and helping them individually sometime in person.

Vicky: I do.

So the things that I do I work locally in the extension office, and then I work part time for the HGIC.

So I get to answer questions, not only in Aiken County, but all over the state.

and then I also get to still go out and do promote and and programs and be invited speaker.

So that's some of my very favorite things to do.

but I get to do them all.

Amanda: Again, many hats.

Yeah.

and Rob Last you're, the commercial horticulture agent in Lexington County, and a lot of people think about Lexington County as having kind of heavier soils.

but there's a huge swath of it.

I think that sandy soils that are good for growing greens.

<Rob>: Absolutely.

I mean, you get down to areas like Peilion where It's very deep sand.

So irrigation can be a real issue for those guys trying to keep the soil moisture there and you get further up towards the lake.

And then yes, you do get into some of the heavier soils as well.

Amanda: But for some of the people who are growing greens and things like that, they are very conscious of water use I believe that at the same time, it means that they don't have to worry about waterlogged soils as frequently.

<Rob>: That's it whenever you've got very sandy soils, you've also got that really free draining.

So root rots and damping off issues can be much lower in a sandy soil when you compare it to a heavier soil, and it also gives you more flexibility to be able to harvest on time.

Amanda: Oh, that's right, because of the fields where you can't take the equipment in.

<That's right.

Yeah.> Oh, my goodness, gracious.

Yeah.

So um, there's something to be said for the sands.

<Absolutely.> All righty.

and then Mary Vargo, you are now in a new position.

and we're glad that you can still join us.

Tell us what you're doing at your day job.

Mary Varga: Yes, I now work for the South Carolina Botanical Garden.

I'm the extension outreach and garden manager there.

So exciting new position for me, I get to be in the garden, getting my hands dirty, but also kind of helping out with outreach programs and those kind of things.

So mixing the both of best of both worlds for me.

Amanda: I am so glad that you're gonna and I know you'll bring a lot of smiles and happiness to the people that come up there because you like to share your information with visitors, too and I guess y'all do if somebody comes in.

Y'all probably do speak to them and try to see if you can help them with questions.

Mary Varga: Yeah, for sure.

I mean, when you're in a garden, you see something interesting.

You want to be able to ask somebody what that is immediately.

I think that's my favorite way to teach somebody is right hands on, of course, and It's something so that'll be really enjoyable for them.

Amanda: So glad You Came to join us and Terasa, we usually start with some gardens of the week and I think that'll be a wonderful thing to have.

Terasa: It always is the gardens of the week is sort of like our virtual field trip around the state.

Occasionally it stretches outside of our borders to our neighbors to the north and south.

Today we begin with Sandra Hughes.

She sent in a cleome and she said this one just happened to show up as a volunteer.

Sometimes we appreciate those volunteers in our yard, sometimes not so much.

Clay and Cindy Williams from Florence.

They are always sending wonderful photos this time we have a green anole a little garden visitor resting on a leaf from Sam and Debrah Barrett in Chapin the American Crinome Lily and Debrah said that she has had it for years and it finally flowered.

It's always like that oh yippee it finally is flowering.

Amanda: Finely at last.

Terasa: Alice Thomasson had some luck.

First time growing Black Beauty eggplant and as you see here, we have a nice fruit.

And last but not least, Betty Canipe in our neighboring state in Marvin of in North Carolina, she has turned her carport area into this plant Haven.

So It's all decked out for the fall.

What a nice, neat alternative use for your carport.

Amanda: What a great idea cars can park anywhere can't they?

Okay, and we're going to have some wonderful segments for you tonight.

We're going to go to Jarrett's Jungle, Jackie McCauley actually came here and has been doing some wonderful things with us that you've been enjoying and will enjoy the one tonight.

We're going to Bob Smith's Koi Pond and Hudson Sea Food on the docks, oh my goodness gracious.

You can't believe what a meal we had.

and that's because It's our 30th anniversary year and we're showing you some things from the past.

and then Austin Jenkins is over who's the naturalist over at USC Sumter.

Is going to come on and talk about passion flowers.

and so why don't we learn about passion flowers from Austin right now.

I'm talking to Austin Jenkins, who's a naturalist at the University of South Carolina here in Sumter and this is so much fun let's tell people what you got.

Austin: Yeah, so this is a we grow passion flower garden It's uh you know, considered a weed by some but you could find it out in the forest in the fields, but we bring some into the home and also called may pop may pops Yes, because the fruit will make this big, elongated, swollen structure that you can.

I used to throw it at my sister a few times, pop and when it hits somebody and so but don't do that, but it has this fantastic caterpillar that gets upon it.

and It's called the Gulf Fritillary Caterpillar, brightly colored arms.

That's usually a warning signal.

This is a poisonous you don't want to consume this and other animals seem to know that the spines upon it.

They are just, you know, mockery.

They don't actually stick you or hurt you.

So yeah, you can touch this caterpillar.

It's safe to have around the home.

and she doesn't believe me.

No, I just wanted to show people.

Yeah, safe safe to touch.

Amanda: Now some caterpillars do have stinging cie tie, is that correct?

Austin: Yes.

and those kind of break off in your skin and usually you've walked past the caterpillar before you've even known what hits you.

Amanda: you don't go out if you don't know the caterpillar, don't go pick it up.

If It's got those on it.

Austin: That's right.

but you know, most butterflies and mouths need a certain plant to rear their young they can't go home and eat like we do a steak and a salad and larval food so they need a larval host and a specific one for this species is the passion flower and it develops into this beautiful butterfly in especially I see him in late summer and fall and called the Gulf Fritillary Butterfly.

Amanda: Now does this when live long enough to go to flowers or to things like that.

Austin: Yeah, yeah, so they'll so they'll have some of the flowers, but a lot of times the they'll lay eggs and this caterpillar in late summer fall will probably go into a chrysalis and stay there.

Oh, rub that throughout the really common then emerge as an adult, you know, when the spring comes around.

Amanda: But I'm perfectly fine to have in your yard and not to worry about.

Austin: Yeah so another way to track well, I mean, you know, you plant flowers for butterflies a great way to attract them but if you can plant their host plants also that will bring butterflies to you.

Amanda: Okay, And uhm an easy to grow native that some people think It's a little too vigorous, but um, then you get this cool thing to go look at in your yard.

That's really fun.

Thank you so much.

Thanks to Austin for coming.

That really It's he brings a wealth of knowledge and he presents such a fascinating way and Terasa, I think you've got that at your house, don't you?

Terasa: I do and It's incorporated in my landscape specifically because It's the host plant for the Gulf Fritillary.

And I was sharing with Rob earlier that the plant is new to my yard this year, I can't seem to get them to over winter so planted it this year and I have been, you know, waiting and hoping for the caterpillars to show up.

Finally, they arrived and I kind of ran into the house to tell my husband like I have never seen someone so excited about finding caterpillars.

[Laughter] And watch them grow and develop their voracious appetites.

and then you can't wait to see you.

and they typically leave the plant and will often I have a fence behind the trellis.

And they'll sometimes form their chrysalis on on the fence or they've even been on my little garden shed.

So sometimes you'll find depending on the species, they'll stay on a plant and then others will use more like manmade structures.

Amanda: Isn't that fun.

I'm so glad you got that to look forward to and that they weren't eating something that you were worried about.

Terasa: It does kind of remind us though, you know, sometimes when we see plants being eaten, we're like, oh, no, it was eating it.

and what do I need to do about it?

but but plants and animals, especially insects have very close relationships.

and if It's a native insect, usually that damage is tolerable.

Amanda: Because it doesn't want to get rid of what it has to have to eat.

Yeah, yeah, they can it can eat some, but it has to leave some.

Al righty.

Well, Terasa, is there someone we can help?

Terasa: I am quite sure there is we were talking about insects.

and this happens to be an insect question.

Donna says I have found a little pit in my backyard.

I dug down and I found this.

What is it?

Amanda: My goodness?

Well, Vicky, do you have any idea?

Vicky: I do.

and this is one of my absolute favorite insects to find.

So this is the immature form of an antlion.

and we sometimes call these doodlebugs.

And this is a really cool insect.

So there's a whole bunch of species all over the world.

<Worldwide?> Worldwide.

but there's only one genus that digs a little pit.

This is Myrmeleon is the genus.

and these doodlebugs, what they'll do is they dig this pit, It's typically in sand, it'll be kind of in an open area.

I have a lot of them at my house underneath an oak tree, but It's in a spot where there's no vegetation growing.

Yeah, so It's just plain dirt, you'll find them like under pole barns, inside barns like that up next to the carport.

Amanda: So when you said an open area, you don't mean out in the open, but you've mean an area where the ground is exposed.

Vicky: Correct, and It's oftentimes going to be soft, so It's not going to be a clay, it'll be more more friable stuff.

So It's going to be probably in sand.

<Yeah.> And this, this immature larvae will dig this pit.

and its jaws are going to be kind of pointed up.

but It's submerged underneath the soil.

and so when an ant disturbs the soil on the rim of the pit, okay, it'll kick up sand and knock that ant right into the mouthparts.

Well, and I mean, It's one of the one of those cool things I mean, you can go and dig these up and just like what Donna and her sister Susie did, and they're not going to hurt you.

But you can look at the immature insect itself.

Amanda: Well, what do you say when you when you're talking to it?

<What do you mean?> Terasa, uh, you know.

Terasa: Someone told me so I somehow I grew up and became an adult moved to South Carolina never having any idea what it was but I don't you say something like doodlebug doodlebug... Amanda: Come out of your home your house is on fire and your children are burning.

[laughter] Terasa: Well my grandmother from England she would say that a ladybug Ladybug [laughter] Where have you gone Your house is on fire your children are gone.

Yeah, yes, [laughter] Mixed: disturbing.

[laughter] Lot of our nursery rhymes are like... Rockabye baby Amanda: So what is it it as an adult?

Vicky: So it this is in the order of neuroptera so this is a It's related to the lacewings that we find it our lights at night.

Oh, It's a different critter, but It's in the same order.

And these these Net winged insects, they're, I mean, you know, we we don't see them very often.

They're closely related to owl flies, which are slightly different.

They're gonna have owl flies have curlier antennae and bigger eyes but these antlions we know them mostly for the immature forms.

Amanda: Okay.

and I remember when I was visiting with you and doing some weeding under your porch, they were antlions there then.

Mary Varga: really, you know, especially might go out there, nursery rhyme?

[laughter] Amanda: Well, Teresa?

Terasa: Alright, I feel like this is a more serious question from Alfonso.

Amanda: Nice to get some that you don't have to worry about.

Terasa: Yes, yes.

and just how magnificent and fascinating the natural world is.

We just don't always take the time to think about it.

Amanda: And has been to people from all ages of all ages as well.

Terasa: Okay.

All right.

So back to Alfonso in Colombia, he is trying to grow vegetable transplants from seed.

But says they keep dying and wants to know what is going wrong?

Amanda: Oh goodness, goodness.

It's just like with babies and when things are really, really young and immature things can happen to them.

So what do you think is happening here?

<Rob>: Absolutely.

It's, It's a very common problem both in transplant production and direct seeding.

Oh, and it sounds very much to me like it could be a complex of diseases called damping off.

<It's not just one thing.> No damping, the damping of fungi consists of Rhizoctonia, Fusarium, and Phytophthium species, all of which can attack the emerging seedling.

Okay, so typically, what you'll find is that seedlings seeds fail to germinate and emerge.

Okay, the fungus has actually attacked the chute, and the immature chute before It's broken the ground <Wow.> Now, you can also find it a little bit later on, when you've actually got emergence of your seedlings.

and then you'll see kind of a strangled look to the stem, oh, probably with some brown or black and discoloration, right at the soil level.

And the seedling will just flop over and die off.

<Okay.> So this is really a complex diseases that will affect that very early germination and very early seedling stage.

Amanda: Well, what do you suggest people do?

Rob: So there's two ways, one of the best ways to manage damping off is control of moisture, The more moisture, you've got enough compost to the growing media, It's going to reduce that soil temperature, giving the fungi the ideal habitat, and conducive environment to be able to attack those seedlings.

So maintaining good and moist soil but not too wet, which will favor Pythian or to dry which favors rhizoctonia.

So It's that balancing act.

<It's a really fine line.> Mary Varga: To set when I grow from seed, if I leave a little bit of a impression like below the soil, if I don't feel that soil all the way up to the container, if I leave a little bit of that air in there, I usually have a higher percentage of damping off, if I would have filled it the whole flat with soil.

<Rob>: Indentation, you've got somewhere for water to collect and humidity.

So airflow and airflow can be really, really beneficial in helping to get that susceptible st... seedling through.

Mary Varga: It's heartbreaking when you lose it too.

< Absolutely.> Amanda: So I can see that if you've wat... you've put things out and you really wanted to come up, it might, you might want to think well, I've got to water.

And so just hold back, don't don't be too over anxious to keep to be pouring water on and giving it things you need.

You got to kind of give it time and pay attention.

<Rob>: Drainage can be really important to get rid of any excess water quickly and that'll certainly help.

Amanda: So your medium could be important to if you were doing it, couldn't it?

<Rob>: Yes, absolutely.

I mean, so if we think about in ground all of those fungal species survive natural soil.

So there's a natural inoculum reservoir out there.

So that's why we say that temperature and planting time can be a really big benefit.

So if we think about the cucurbits, for example, things like cucumbers and squash, planting those to early into a cold wet seed bed, you're going to see more problems with down damping off than if you've planted a little bit later when It's not when It's when soil temperature is a bit warmer.

So heat pads can also be beneficial when you're looking at growth propagating on a bench or in cells.

<Okay.> Amanda: Okay, goodness gracious.

Well, thank goodness that usually we're successful.

Absolutely.

That seeds generally aren't as expensive and we can replant if necessary.

Okay.

Okay.

We're gonna have a wonderful visit from Jackie McCauley.

Jarrett's Jungle.

♪ I'm with my friend Jackie Macaulay from Jarrett's Jungle up in Columbia which is tropical's.

But this is something, Jackie, that you said could be useful to people who had a patio.

Let's talk it.

<Jackie> Right.

Sometimes you have a table outside that you want to entertain, you know, outside.

And you want something on there that you don't have to constantly tend to.

And these succulents are wonderful.

There are different types of sedum's, and they can take full sun.

They don't mind the heat.

They grow in small containers.

And you can really make a lot of texture by just using different ones.

<Amanda> Yes!

<Jackie> They're easy to plant.

This is another one.

And you can take like a piece of wood or a candle or maybe some moss or pinecones or something that you have and make a real natural looking centerpiece out of that.

<Amanda> And so this can stay outside.

<Jackie> Year round.

<Amanda> Year round.

<Jackie> You don't have to.

<Amanda> And it can take sun.

<Jackie> It can take sun.

And it can take the winter.

<Amanda> Wow!

<Jackie> The only time I protected mine was during that very cold spell we had.

And I threw a towel over it.

<Amanda> And, um, just be sure that you water it, how often?

<Jackie> During the summer, it takes water regularly, like every couple of days.

But during the wintertime, you really don't have to water it at all.

So it just kind of sits there.

<Amanda> Well, this is, wouldn't that be fun?

Anytime you're going to sit outside for a little while.

<Jackie> They're beautiful!

<Amanda> Yeah, they are.

<Jackie> And this, they just make like a little carpet.

They're so pretty.

<Amanda> And they give you something to talk about, because it's like a little forest.

<Jackie> Yes, it is.

It's like a little environment there with trees and ground covers.

Well, Jackie, thank you so much for bringing this down.

<Jackie> You're welcome.

I enjoyed it so much.

Thanks for having me.

♪ Amanda: Jackie McCauley has so many talents.

and we really appreciate her coming down and sharing them with us.

and with you.

Hats, hats, hats, hats, hats.

So I just love the fall time of the year because the Indian grass, where I am is just everywhere.

I do love it.

It's just a beautiful grass and the seed head is so pretty and the dailieas just love the fall.

You know, they're not so happy in the middle of the summer.

and so that beautiful red flower.

and then right now, you know, I live in an area that's, you know, wonderfully agricultural and the cotton's out.

and, um, and It's stopped and got some cotton.

and um, the cotton bowls, which we'll be opening soon, but the cotton is out there.

and Mary, I gave you an unusual assignment when you got here.

Because sometimes people with their beautiful beautiful heads or their foreheads have a little bit of shine.

and I needed you to help me with Rob and tell tell.

Tell us what... Mary Varga: Amanda tasked me she gave me some of her cotton leftover from her hat.

and I was tasked with powdering Rob's head to make it less shiney a natural product.

Maybe it felt kind of nice.

[laughter] Amanda: Nice flower.

So there you go.

So Mary Varga: So yeah, perfect.

Yeah.

What did the job?

I think it looks great too.

Amanda: I mean, sometimes we forget that cotton is cotton, you know?

Yeah.

Anyway, I thought that was kind of fun.

and I didn't have to go back and find some in another room.

All righty.

Well, I bet we have some more questions.

Terasa.

Terasa: We do.

I'm not sure how you transition from powdering the shine to answer your question, but we'll just have to jump right into it.

This one came in as an email, I believe from Juju in Rock Hill.

It's a photograph of insects.

and she said she described them as neat little buddies.

I thought that was a cute description.

Neat little buddies, will they do any harm?

And she made sure to say we love the lessons we learn on Tuesday.

Thanks to all of you.

So what do we think these neat little buddies are?

Amanda: Well, Mary, can you help us out?

Mary Varga: Yeah, absolutely.

They're milkweed bugs.

So generally, they're not going to harm the plant at all, what they really are after once the we have some right here too, It's kind of cool to be able to see some of the pods right here on our milkweed.

But milkweed bugs are going to be after the Sap forming on the seeds.

So that's really what they're, they're there for they're trying to feed off of that Sap and usually you'll see the adult form and then the nymph stage that we usually see on our, on our milkweeds.

and they're usually huge clusters too.

So it can be quite alarming.

Vicky: It's kind of It's disconcerting, because you're like why are there so many on this plant?

and I mean, there's power in numbers.

It's a It's a It's a mechanism for protection from predators.

Amanda: We want the milkweed to seed and have more milkweed.

Do they eat so many of it that you can't they're gonna harm your chances of having milkweed?

Vicky: So Mary and I were talking about that and It's there.

Yes, they're going to damage some.

but your plants also going to produce so much because they've been they've been growing with each other forever.

They're, you know, there's mechanisms of the plant to overcome a natural Yeah, so can be aware of Mary Varga: if you're trying to save those seeds to replant in your garden, you might have a lower germination percentage.

So that's probably the only harm that it would do on the plant.

Amanda: Um, well, this was brought in from home.

and, um, It's got a lot of the caterpillars on it.

Mary Varga: It sure does, and lots of aphids.

and Vicky was able to ID this one as a lacewing larva as well.

So I think those actually will feed on those aphids.

So It's kind of a milkweeds a great plant that attracts a lot of different insects.

It's kind of fun to be able to see different things.

Amanda: Oleander aphids is that what they are Teresa, am I right about that?

I just go and you know, squishing with my fingers, and then make your fingers kind of yellow.

But then as you said, some of them, I'm gonna have to be more careful because some of them have some beneficial insects, in there, and they're eating them.

Mary Varga: Yeah.

and Vicki would made a good point, too.

Sometimes we'll see milkweed bugs on Oleander too, since they're in that same family.

Amanda: And then this little fellow, there are a lot of them on here.

and I'm gonna take these home I've got this plant is huge.

So I'm going to take them home, I promise.

but um, I had one of my shirts in the car and went back in the back to put it on.

and, you know, it had it hanging over the car hook.

and this plant was right next to it.

and I was getting ready to roll my sleeves up and this fella was on the shirt had gotten off the planet onto the shirt.

and then I had to come in here and get y'all to help me with them.

Some of them.

You know, some caterpillars, if you're not familiar with them, you don't want to be touching them, but um, this one is perfectly fine to touch.

and I just love seeing how It's using its antenna.

Look, It's kind of tapping on me to see where It's going and what what's going on there.

What a remarkable, remarkable, natural world we're blessed to live.

Yeah, Mary Varga: they'd be on the lookout for their crystalids too so they'll form those.

Usually they don't form them on the milkweed themselves, but I've been finding a lot of them on my texts.

and even on some ornamental grasses.

Amanda: Let me get that fella back on.

Fortunately, he's got lots of little hooks on his prolegs is that?

Yeah, so he's, he's gonna attach.

Okay, all right.

Danny Howard is retired extension agent.

He just knew wonderful places to take us.

And this is our 30th anniversary year and we're going back to places we've been through and he took us to his brother in law's Oh, boy if I wish I had a brother in law like this one.

♪♪ We are in Greenville, South Carolina in the Japanese themed garden of Bob Smith.

Bob, when you came here.

This was I think one of those yards it gets you out of the month for overall neatness and tidiness because it was nothing but turf grass and some trees.

Bob: No, it was a blank canvas is what it was.

Amanda: And is that what you wanted?

Bob: That's what I wanted.

So I could create my own type of garden, which I've done Greenville.

Amanda: and Upstate is notorious for in fertile, not in fertile, but hard to deal with clay soil.

Did you feel like you needed to transform your soil?

Bob: I brought in about 20 truckloads full of soil topsoil and river sand and mix that together and form berms around the entire yard, which I use for plantings for the larger trees and such, which gives us total privacy.

Amanda: And one of the ways that you've also created privacy here is through your use of sound, natural sounds that you've where you allow nature to provide music for you.

Let's talk about how that operates.

Bob: Sure of course, the number one thing for me is the waterfalls I have surrounding me.

and then too we have a lot of large chimes throughout the yard to take advantage of the wind.

and I even had a the 2000 year old concept called a Mohican wind harp, which, when the wind goes prevailing wind goes through strands of nylon, it creates a very low, harmonious sound.

We're all going through the yard, kind of hum, exactly.

Amanda: They kind of set you in a meditative mood.

You've been working all day and need to cool off.

Bob: And sleep.

So I always go down.

No, my mom, my wife calls it a hermit shed but I call it my tea house.

So I go down there.

Amanda: And I imagine that you're down there and she needs you to take care of a very important, honey do she can actually take that little mallet and strike that bell?

Bob: Actually, no, my hearing gets very poor when I get down in the tea house.

Amanda: But Let's do talk about that beautiful bell.

Bob: Okay, thank you.

the bell was originated back in 140 years ago about 30 miles south of Beijing, China, and it was at the front of a monastery.

and then a lot of times these older artifacts will be taken to market to be sold.

and I had a friend of mine in town who had a business, who would go to China twice a year and shop for those types of things.

So everything I have, my yard is at least 100 years old.

It's usually hand carved granite or stone, more like this bronze bell, which I have, and we've had it now for about a year here in the yard.

Amanda: But we came up here today, because we didn't know about the beauty of the landscape, we came particularly to talk about the Koi ponds.

But and you said that actually, it wasn't so much the fish, but the water associated with it.

That all brought it together.

So let's talk about this first beautiful Koi pond.

Bob: Well, if you study a Japanese garden, you know, It's got to have a Koi pond, right.

So I started with the waterfall concept.

and then I just had to decide how big I wanted the Koi pond to be, which is measured in gallons of water, the one behind us is 3500 gallons.

and right now unfortunately has too many Koi because of reproductive habits.

So I'm gonna be giving some of those away to the Clemson University for Dr. Beecher.

Yeah, exactly.

and so he's coming in next week.

and I'm gonna give him a lot of Koi from my lower bond, which is twice the size of this one.

and also, hopefully, he'll take some of my goldfish which are getting pretty big also.

Amanda: So they're small when you get them but they grow very quickly.

Bob: They do.

I get we're about 20 pounds and 28 inches on some of the Koi down here and three years.

and they started like that.

Amanda: There's a technique that you need to use when you're establishing a Koi pond.

And so let's quickly explain to our viewers how you go about that.

Bob: What you do basically is decide what shape you want your Koi pond to be, how large it needs to be.

And then you want to plan the specific like waterfall steps coming into your pond, this one only has two that one has five, because It's about a 60 foot long waterfall stream.

So but what that does is it creates a lot of variation in the pond.

So you want that you also need aeration if you have a lot of fish.

So that's important.

So I have five aeration devices in the lower pond, and three in this one for that purpose.

Amanda: And I've really enjoyed seeing the different types of stone within the pond the stones around and then on top, they seem to be more angular.

So is there a reason for that.

Bob: The reason is, is you have Koi when they are spawning is the fem... the they have the female Koi are bigger than the male Koi, they move around slower, but what they do is they'll move around the edge of the pond and you'll see and get chased by two or three male Koi around the edge of the pond and then you know, hit the female on the side like this, you can hear them slap them, and that causes the egg to be released and then the males fertilize it.

and so it comes out in a very sticky ribbon and it attaches itself to the walls of the of the pond.

Now these walls are made from river rock which is rounded, worn down by water.

and that prevents the female from getting hurt against Angular rocks, she's Amanda: pushed against pushed against rock like Don't be, don't be hurt.

But then above that you have a different type of... Bob: Tennessee field stone.

And It's you know, flatter and sharper and easier to stack.

Amanda: And as we look up here on the upper pond, there's a looks like It's a somewhat precariously balanced structure of stone and you said interesting story.

Bob: Yeah, the Karen was originated in China went to Japan and then came to Ireland and Scotland this is like 2000 years ago.

<Why did that you said they were?> They were trail markers and also signs of good luck.

<Okay.> So, I have a Karen here also have one down here in my sand area my.

So again I want to create as much luck as possible.

Amanda: You have a good bit of bamboo here and you said you do keep after it.

Bob: You have too.

Even though these are theoretically non invasive bamboos, they are black and I have a yellow, they are invasive, so you have to keep an eye out because within a few days, you can see strands rolling from here to 15 feet away, and they'll grow up to 30 feet high and within six weeks, so you got to be careful.

Amanda: And the black bamboo, though is very beautiful.

and you use that I think, although from a commercial source in the creation of your lovely little tea house.

Bob: I did purchase it from a group in California.

And I picked black bamboo because I liked that color.

and then we stain it a similar color.

and It's stranded together with steel wire so it comes in rolls so It's easy.

You just have to cut it, which is not easy to do because It's so hard but you cut it the size you need and put it up as a wall.

Amanda: And then as we look around you are in such have so much privacy although you're in the middle of a subdivision and you've used many Asian seeming plants, particularly the conifers, I think and the Japanese maples.

So let's talk a little about the conifers first.

Some of them have such variety Color.

Bob: These are all different shades of green and pretty hearty.

So that's why I like them.

Amanda: And then of course, since we do have an Asian theme, the Japanese maples are so beautiful.

Yeah, Bob: I enjoy.

That's my favorite tree.

As the one is beside you, it stays burgundy all summer.

and It's, It's an old one, It's probably about 12 15 years old.

And I purchased it when it was not too much smaller than this.

but I have probably 25 different Japanese maples throughout the yard that grow pretty aggressively here.

Amanda: And then I just can't imagine how many rocks you have picked up and moved.

But there is also a dry stream bed, because you do have a fair, fairly steep slope here.

and that area down there could have been just a morass.

Bob: It was it was much like a bog when I first got here, right through that section where you see the full riverbed.

So I put in on dug a slight hole on ditch that's about 115 feet long into a drain, that then goes under my burn.

and then it goes on out for the natural regular topography.

and so then you put in, weed block, rubber liner, and then stone, and water flows down that slowly filters out.

and it will also feed your yard, but it won't sit there.

It'll keep moving.

Amanda: Bob, this has been like a trip to Asia for me.

I love history and to understand the reasons behind architecture and why certain things are done in different ways how to interpret it, and its connection with the past has been fascinating.

I wondered if we could almost consider this.

It certainly for me has been an education and maybe we can signal the end of class by going down and striking that 150 year old bell.

<That'd be fun.> Okay.

Bob thank you for sharing this beautiful creation with us.

Bob: Thank you very much.

♪♪ [struck bell ringing] What an incredible yard.

Bob Smith is made there.

We just had the most wonderful, wonderful day saying that not only the wonderful Koi and everything else he had and the artifacts he had to make it even more fascinating and special.

All righty.

Well, Teresa, there's never as you say a shortage of questions.

Terasa: Not usually.

and Phillip Rodian from North Augusta had some lantana that says just wasn't really looking very healthy and asked Do we know what might be causing that?

Amanda: Okay.

Well, Vicky, do you have some ideas?

Vicky: Yeah.

So this is related to something that we're that a lot of us are familiar with, especially if we grow azalea in our yard.

So a lot of folks are familiar with azalea lace bug, yes, but lantana can also get a lace bug, It's not the same one.

But It's It's does kind of the same thing and the symptoms look the same.

So when we look at this lantana, we can see that there's kind of a cast to the tops of the leaves, there's like a stippling, where they're, you know, the green is missing.

and when we flip that leaf over, we can see some fecal specks on there.

and that tells us that there's a lace bug on here.

and so these these insects have sucking mouthparts.

Okay, they're going to be removing some of the juices out of there, some of the chlorophyll out of there.

and so that's where we get that cast the top side of the leaves.

Amanda: But damages underneath the leaf.

Vicky: The real damage is underneath the leaf.

and so what she does is she comes and she cuts a little slit, lays an egg inside that leaf tissue and then she'll cover it over.

and then she also defecate on it.

So that's what we see those fecal specs on the under side.

But we can see both nymphs and the adults in the videos and the pictures that we have so, you can what what I do in my yard is I don't do anything with them.

lantana is not always the most desirable plant.

And this damage really shows up toward the end of the season when the weather's getting ready to kill this off.

Sure.

In our area, doesn't it over winters, but it comes back down to the ground.

So I personally don't do anything.

There's there's lots of predators out there.

So I kind of let biological control do what it does.

Amanda: okay, what it does, so really just not anything to you know, to worry about.

Vicky: It's mostly an aesthetic thing that's going to the end of the summer.

<Rob>: Something else?

Yeah.

and is providing food source feed beneficial's as well.

That's Oh, of course.

Amanda: Yeah.

Thank you.

Okay.

Well, as I said, It's our 30th anniversary year and so we're going to look at Good things that happened in the past.

and we had a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful visit to Hudson's Seafood On The Docks.

We had big eyes and a big appetite.

♪ We're in Hilton head South Carolina and I'm speaking with Andrew Carmine's the proprietor of Hudson's restaurant and Andrew, I think this is a family affair restaurant.

Yes ma'am I'm second generation my parents bought the restaurant in nineteen seventy five from Benny and his wife Barbara Hudson of course and you know back before that it was an oyster packing facility.

Going back to the 20's.

So definitely, the longest standing restaurant in Hilton Head.

We're delighted to be with you today and one of the things I want to talk about briefly is that we really want to encourage people to eat South Carolina seafood as much as possible.

Absolutely, I mean you know the great thing about eating local seafood in South Carolina is that you know that seafood is coming off the boats into the table and and the freshness just speaks for itself.

Your shrimp I believe is delivered right here to where we're sitting.

That's right, well we have to license seventy four foot shrimp trawlers.

Actually sister vessels run by two brothers that are third generation shrimpers.

Their dad docked here.

At Hudson's Frankie their names are Jeff and Skip him or Frankie their dad docked here and his father used to have the property next door back in the fifties.

Wow, and so you put up how much shrimp every year and serve how much?

Well, we probably last year served about a hundred and twenty thousand pounds of shrimp.

All of which was off of one of those two boats and you know in the off season we'll actually freeze some of that shrimp so that we still have that beautiful chemical free east coast white shrimp for our guest, when the seasons not on.

Well we came today to see something absolutely fascinating and that is soft shell crab production, or how you get those.

That's right.

It's just been the most wonderful nature experience I've ever had.

So tell our viewers a little bit about how you start how you get these crabs to begin with.

I'll give it my best shot.

OK. We start with about two hundred crab pots and we set 'em at a normal location, right here in the creeks and the inner coastal.

Where you would normally set crab pots for hard shell blue crabs.

The same critter.

Just like when we would be on vacation at Paulies and you put one off to the back of the island of somebody's dock.

Exactly see what, exactly and you know when you're at Paulies.

You probably use some type of fish or chicken.

Chicken neck.

Or whatever.

Instead of using traditional bait when we fish for peeler crabs which are the crabs that are going to shed their shell, we use a male crab or a jimmy crab.

And we put that where you would normally put the bait and the crab trap.

What the male crab does this time of year because it's breeding season, the male crab puts off a pheromone or a musk, and that musk attracts the virgin, not just virgin females but females crabs that are looking to breed.

The idea being that the female crabs gonna find that male crab and when she finds that male crab she's gonna shed her shell, allow the male crab to breed her and then the male crab will protect her until her shell hardens up, which only takes about ten hours.

Wow.

So, the the point here is what we're trying to do is capture them when they after they find the male crowd once they start the process which can take between four and five days, and then we take that female crab and we look at the shell underneath and if she has a red or orange marking we know that that crab is very close to shedding.

Now the orange marking will be on the back fin.

On the apron?

or on that apron.

Correct.

This is a perfectly normal part of their life and crab shed all the time.

You said throughout their lifetime.

Every time they get bigger they're shedding.

Right so a blue crab will shed it's shell between fifteen and twenty times randomly.

Yeah, well the thing that makes this part of the year so unique is that they're all doing it at the same time.

So we can capture that lightning in a bottle so to speak.

Every blue crab that we bring back to the restaurant we have a flow through system.

Which is a series of PVC pipes that operate off of two pool pumps on the floating dock and those pipes and pumps, pump sea water into a flow through system where we have four foot by eight foot by twelve inch deep tables, and we bring those crabs with the red or orange markings.

put them in the flow through system and we watch them intently and monitor them constantly.

Because if they start to lose their shell everybody around them is gonna eat them up.

That's right.

You've got to be in there saying like oh my goodness!

I've got to move this one to the next tank.

Right.

Cause this one is getting ready.

Yeah and then and the ones that are still hard are here.

So that's because you can't send you're in there looking at them and looking for certain things on them that are clues is that correct?

That's right.

So once we put the crabs in the flow through system, there's essentially three different levels of shedding.

So there's a general population we call it, which these are crabs that have the red or orange marking, but they have not their shell has not cracked yet.

So we will go through every day sometimes twice a day if the weather is really pretty.

And we'll feel underneath the shell of all two thousand crabs in the flow through the system.

If the crab has a thin hairline crack underneath the point of the the point.

Of the, this the point that sticks out on the edge.

What they looking under the on the underbelly I will feel underneath that point and if it has a thin hairline crack will move it into the next series of tanks.

In those tanks, the crowd will actually bust in the back.

Meaning the back of the shell.

The the shell that's going to ultimately come off will pop open.

like busting out of their britches.

That's correct.

And then once that happens we'll move it into the very last tank.

There's only one tank for busted crabs and in that tank the crab will continue to open up and push its way out of the back of that shell.

And fortunately you said at that time they come to kind of torpid almost and they're not going to eat other.

No they're pretty relaxed.

So that's, so they're safe when they're in there.

Yeah.

Because if we had anybody who is active in there they would just eat each other up.

We do still watch them pretty carefully.

So one thing that's really interesting is that I mentioned before, if you leave the crab in the water in ten hours the shell will be completely hard again.

Whoa!

Once you take the crab out of the water the hardening stops completely.

So the crab will also eat the protective gel coating or membrane that configuration that protects the new shell from the former shell and that'll help them harden up.

Re-mineralize.

That's right.

and I've heard that there's some other aquatic species that do that as well.

Well, let's talk about some of the delicious ways that you prepare them.

Well we do have all kinds of ways.

We actually I have heard a lot of people tell me that they've never seen such an extensive soft shell crab menu.

So we have about ten items that we offer daily.

So we've got here a just very simply fried soft shell crab.

A very simple with just a little bit of brown butter and lemon.

♪ And it's just as simple as it can be, crispy and wonderful.

Here we have a little bit of a fancier item for those people that maybe don't want to look at the crab while they're eating it.

This is a soft shell crab and fried green tomato B.L.T.

So we have local fried green tomatoes.

We have a tomato jam.

Apple wood smoked bacon and a corn meal crusted fried soft shell crab.

I had one of those tomatoes today at lunch.

Boy oh boy oh boy!

♪ This looks like something that a chef got excited about.

This is something that's been around at Hudson's for a really long time.

And I think a guy named James Howell, the chef in the eighties came up with.

It's called a buster crab.

♪ And what we do is we pull the points up on the crab and we stuff it with fresh jumbo lump crab meat.

And then we serve it over a toasted piece of French bread.

And then a dollop of but a good smattering of bearnaise sauce.

And you know for me I'm a purist.

I'm a lightly dust it with flour, pan sautee it, a simple guy, <yeah> but this one is a show stopper and people that maybe don't want to look at the crab as much but really love 'em, they enjoy that.

Yeah.

Andy, this has just been so exciting!

I can't wait to taste these <yeah> And if people want to know more about Hudson's Restaurant and what you have here and how to get here, what's the best way to find out about it?

I would recommend following us on Instagram at Hudson's Seafood.

We also have a great web site hudsonsonthedocks.com There's some really interesting content out there.

So if you're looking to learn a little bit more about soft shell crabs or oysters or shrimp, just Google us up because there's a lot of good stuff on the Internet about some of the exciting things were doing.

Well everything that I've experience today has been just about the best I've ever tasted.

We're so excited about being able to remind people that South Carolina seafood is what it's all about.

And that you are one of many people who are trying to make certain that it comes to all of us.

Thank you so much.

Yes ma'am, Pleasure being here.

♪ Amanda: I hope you enjoyed seeing our visit as much as we enjoyed being there.

Well, Terasa whom, can we help?

Terasa: Let's try to help Gayle in Cayce, who says we have an irrigation system here when we purchased our home.

I'm wondering if it needs to be adjusted for the winter.

Amanda: Oh, goodness gracious.

Well, Rob, I think at my house.

If we ever get some winter, things probably won't need quite as much water?

I'm not sure.

<Rob>: That's absolutely correct, Amanda.

I mean, typically, during the growing season on a lawn turf area is going to require about an inch of water a week.

Yeah, that's gonna reduce down during the winter, as the plants go dormant, you've not got that photosynthesis going on, or the transpiration of water.

So your water use goes, water use demand by the plant goes down.

Typically, when we get rainfall in South Carolina, the majority of it is over the winter months.

So natural irrigation will often supply more than the plant needs.

Often.

Oftentimes now unless It's a very prolonged period of drought, winter irrigation tends not to be necessary.

The other thing with irrigation apply during the winter, is you can cause additional damage to turf grasses, particularly if that water is applied very close to a freeze event.

Obviously, with a freeze event, water's going to reduce the temperature still further.

So the wetter the you've got that soil, the more damage you can see to your turf grass.

Amanda: Okay.

All right.

And Teresa, a lot of people have an automatic irrigation system.

and I'm talking about that a little bit.

and that It's not really such a good idea.

Terasa: You can't It's not like the set it and forget it, we need to make adjustments.

And so lots of things to consider from terms of conserving our water resources just from that natural resource perspective, but also in terms of not creating a favorable environment for the formation of disease and things like that.

So there are some devices, you can hook up to a system, oh, rain shut off devices, which is pretty simple.

You can still when when it detects there's been a certain amount of rainfall, It's going to shut that system off.

So you don't have to, you know, remember to go out and turn it off and then remember to go back out and turn it on again.

and most of those can be like retrofitted to an old system if yours didn't already have one well, Amanda: and I think everyone should learn how to be able to control his or her irrigation system, water it's a new oil to me.

I mean, we see that our aquifers are getting lower, and there's certain parts of the country that are just having terrible problems, you know, growing the things that we all rely on.

And so, um, the more that we can do, I think to be conserving this resource, it is a resource, a natural resource.

<Rob>: Absolutely.

I mean, with all resources, we get more competition between and demand for recreational use of water, residential use for drinking washing purposes, as well as industrial uses as well.

Amanda: That's right.

Well, so do that.

and on that note, we'll say thank you for being with us.

and we'll see you next time right here on Making It Grow.

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ <Narrator>: Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina is a cooperative effort among farmers retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture to help consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

The Boyd foundation supporting outdoor recreational opportunities, the appreciation of wildlife educational programs, and enhancing the quality of life in Columbia, South Carolina and the Midlands at large.

McLeod farms and Mc Bee South Carolina family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms