Welcome to Politically Speaking.

I'm Elizabeth Bennion, chancellor's professor of political science and director of Community Engagement and the American Democracy Project at Indiana University, South Bend.

And today's episode will delve into the critical issues shaping the future of education in Indiana.

Joining us is Keith Gambill, president of the Indiana State Teachers Association, which has recently published their 2024 legislative priorities, addressing key areas that impact educators, students and the landscape of education in the state of Indiana.

Keith, I wonder if you could start by giving us a little bit of background on the Indiana State Teacher Association's advocacy efforts to restore and really to expand collective bargaining for teachers in Indiana.

Certainly.

First, thank you for the invitation to be with you today.

Last year, we had some erosion in the ability to advocate for our educators with the change of discussion being a requirement with the school district in the exclusive representative.

And that was changed to they may and we see that as a step backward in a way that we have all of our educators in the school district working collectively together, along with the school administration, to do the best for all of our students.

Additionally, collective bargaining for our educators currently is limited to just bargaining on our salary and benefits.

And while those are very important issues, it does eliminate our ability to bargain on other work related issues, whether that be class size, curricular items that can be used for textbooks, those things that really create the totality of our students learning.

Sometimes we hear concerns about teacher shortage and the discussion immediately jumps to salary.

But in talking with teachers, many of them seem to point to the kinds of issues that you've just discussed.

Do you, in talking with teachers here, that those other issues are as important as the issue of pay as of pay in terms of their satisfaction with their profession and ability to carry out what they see as their primary work?

So pay is certainly very important and especially with where you're located, we can draw the comparison with Michigan and in pay in the area, teachers begin a little bit higher than Michigan teachers, but the change on the average is quite drastic by almost $10,000 difference for the average teacher over time with that salary.

And so those the ability to see where you can go in your career is something that we're starting to see that is impacting folks.

So while they may enter the profession, staying in the profession is starting to up, especially when there are other opportunities.

And that really creates a drain on the entire system.

Because while new teachers come in, we hope they're prepared.

There's still a lot of learning when they when they first come into that classroom and school districts and their teachers work very hard to make sure that they're going to be successful.

And you want to make sure that that investment is going to pay off in the long run.

But certainly issues that impact the the working of the classroom and the working of the school day are extremely important to our educators.

And so while we have a shortage of teachers, we want to be addressing everything that is causing folks to leave the profession or not enter the profession to begin.

So as you think about that important issue of retaining teachers, what legislative measure measures do you propose to support educators in this way?

And what do policymakers need to do?

And also, what can school districts do to help alleviate this problem and increase retention rates?

There are several things within the totality of our legislative priorities for this year.

Certainly expanding our collective bargaining rights so that they, the educators, recognize they have greater voice in the working of their school and what their professional working life is.

We also know that in order to make some of those changes for career possibilities for those, we're going to have to have additional funding in the system so that we're able to keep those salaries progressing in order to keep folks there.

But we also have priorities addressing our students social, emotional learning.

And part of that wraps in the student discipline and the needs of our students.

That is an impact on our teachers work lives.

And we need to also work to make sure that our classrooms look like our communities.

And so every effort we can to make sure that we're doing what we can to bring in educators of color and to make sure that we've created an environment that is welcoming for them so that we're able to keep them in our classrooms as well.

You talked a little bit about discipline.

When you talk about discipline and flexibility there.

What do you mean?

And what kind of changes do you have in mind?

What is it that educators need to be able to do to maintain better control over the classroom, to create a more constructive learning environment for all students?

Indiana ranks very low in our student to counselor ratio.

And so one of the things that we could do to address some of our issues right away is to infuse more school counselors into our system, because we know that if we're if we're going to have successful students, we need to know what is triggering them to act out in class.

But we can't just rely on the classroom teacher who has the job of preparing and providing their lessons to take care of all of those needs.

And so knowing that there are resources, when a student is having problems in the classroom, that resources exist within the school district where those students can get the attention that they.

Now, what about the issue of tuition support?

Do you feel like things are about where they need to be?

And legislators often point out that they spend more than half of their budget on education.

I noticed that the CTA is urging a 5 million increase in basic tuition support for traditional public schools.

How would that money be allocated and why do you think that's necessary?

Well, if you take a look for the majority of our school districts, the funding formula will not allow the school district to keep up with the rate of inflation.

So what is happening?

If you look at pay, for example, our educators, while they're making an increase, will not allow them to keep up with the rate of inflation.

So year after year they fall just a little bit further behind.

And we have to recognize that if we want to make sure that we have all of the teachers that we need, if we have all of the education support professionals that we need, that we are able to pay them a wage that is going to keep them in.

Sadly, we have a deficit in our support professionals, our bus drivers, custodians, because in many cases they are simply working or those who are still there for their ability to have access to health care.

But they really aren't making a living wage and that those are the items that we really have to be looking at for the health of our entire education system.

Now, I was recently at a panel where a legislator mentioned that money really was not the problem, but that it was the choices that administrators are making.

An example used was South Bend Community School corporations with 100 million in federal ARP funding during the pandemic, $220 million referendum, putting about 20.8 million back in the operating budget each year, in addition to the 54 million for capital projects.

And the argument was that this on top of the per pupil funding, the complexity index funding gives the system plenty of money and they just need to allocate it to the things that you mentioned if they think that's important.

So I wonder how you respond to that position or that claim.

The first thing that I would say is it really didn't magnifies the need for our collective bargaining because you actually have a unified organization that is looking at the school districts resources in that way.

And we have to also recognize that the cost that we have at home that are rising are also rising for our school districts, the costs for transportation, the cost to keep cool, our buildings all of those are increasing the same as they are increasing for each of us at home.

And so while there may be a need to look completely at how the districts are spending their money, I will say for our traditional public schools, there, their school boards meet in public on a regular basis.

They they show their books and how they are spending their money and if there are citizens in the community who believe that adjustments need to be made and how they are spending money, then I would ask them to begin to engage with their school districts.

Now, you did also mention this idea of social emotional learning, and I believe that the CTA would like to establish a pilot program on student social emotional learning to address mental health.

Can you talk a little bit more about what this program would look like and how that would be significant in supporting student well-being and ultimately their academic performance as well?

Certainly, we think it's important to get this right.

And so instead of just trying to implement something that is statewide and that we are unsure of that, it's important to highlight the the ideas and concepts that are needed.

It's a smaller group so that as adjustments need to be made along the way, we have the flexible bility to do that without encompassing all of the districts around the state.

But in order for our students to be successful, we have to make sure that they are prepared to learn.

And what we have learned is that students have come back since the pandemic.

We know that they have differences that really have not become an issue in the way that they have manifest themselves today.

And we want to make sure that our students are going to be successful from the time they begin the system until the time that they graduate.

And sometimes for some of our students.

They need additional supports.

And that's where this work comes into play.

Really find out what support is needed and which approaches are most successful.

Through that pilot is the goal then?

Absolutely.

We have to look at and those differences are going to exist throughout their time in school.

So the means of a high schooler who may be struggling with how to settle their work school balance.

For some of them that are working part time jobs, whether it's to to help with their car insurance or because their families economics need them to be employed.

We know that for some students sleep at the start of the day can be impacted.

So what adjustments can we work on with a family to help them say now?

Is that the time that electronics need to be turned off so that we're preparing to get a good night's sleep?

What are the needs of those students whose family leave the house before the school bus comes?

And, you know, a 12 or 13 year old may want to stay in bed just a little bit longer.

And if there isn't someone there to supervise them, how might we help them learn the importance of getting up, developing those routines?

And those are just some examples.

There are some that that go far deeper for students.

Certainly those in theater have food insecurity or housing insecurity.

That adds just a complete additional complexity to what some of our kiddos are facing.

That's so interesting and important.

I think often when we as members of the public hear about pilots related to students well-being or mental health, we think of students who may be facing a profound clinically diagnosed mental illness.

But you're talking about much more common developmental phrases and the context in which students live, which is a much, much broader phenomenon that it will affect almost every student.

Absolutely.

And there's no denying that we have some students who need a greater intensity level of service, and we want to make sure that those students needs are also being met.

But we can't forget about the the full spectrum of issues that our students face each day when they come into our classrooms.

And one thing we haven't talked about yet is professionals standards for the profession of educator, whether it be teachers or other support staff.

And I know that is one of the key focuses of the teachers union.

I wonder if you could talk a little bit more on what standards you have in mind and the reasons why you're concerned about the really preservation of professional standards in the field.

When I entered the profession in 1987, the only way to become a classroom teacher was to have the degree from an accredited university and to have passed.

At that time it was the national teacher's exam in order to receive licensure to come into the classroom.

And over the past decade or more, there have been great adjustments made to what level of education one needs to enter the profession.

In what area is someone educated in order to be accredited to come into the classroom?

And what we've recognized over time is the additional supports that are needed in order to make that person successful in the classroom.

Simple things such as classroom management, which you you study when you study to become a teacher is something that then that burden is placed upon the school district to in some way help that new employee to know and understand classroom management.

Understanding student or child development may or may not have been a part of that person's background.

In my field, I'm a music teacher.

The difference between having someone for music class that just as the students come in and sing songs versus an educator brings, it is it actually teaches music.

Now, for myself, I would hope that they would be singing as part of that because that's part of the learning process.

But if there has to be more than just that and, you know, we just get one shot each year for these students as they come into our classrooms and we want to make sure that we're doing everything we can to make sure they are successful.

And that begins with having someone who is prepared and ready to lead those students.

So these temporary certificates, for example, or emergency license, where somebody may not have any background in teaching or perhaps even a substantive degree in the field that they're teaching, that is it sounds like it would be of great concern to you.

If it remains to be a great concern.

And certainly in a time when we are still running at a deficit and we have probably close to a dozen different ways that someone can become a teacher in Indiana, that we are still running that deficit.

So you no longer have to have studied this in college in order to apply for a position within a school district.

And with with all of those adjustments and all of those changes, we're still in a deficit.

So beginning to turn that page is going to take a great deal of time.

One of the ways that we can begin to help that is to lift up our students in high school who we believe could be the next generation of educators and encouraging them to go to school, to study, to become teachers.

Now, that is a fast way to solve the problem.

But over time, it could have great benefits to future generations across Indiana.

You mentioned briefly earlier in the interview the fact that you view it as critical to diversify the teaching profession.

I wonder if you could talk a little bit about that and why you think it's important to have teachers from a variety of different backgrounds in the classroom with the children?

According to our last census, about 25% of all Hoosiers identify as a person of color.

Yet our classrooms, I believe, are in the low single digits of teachers of color.

And so that begins to to impact students as they see their classroom, as they see the world around them when they come into our schools.

And we think it's important that students see the richness of their heritage reflected in their schools.

One of the things that we would like to encourage work in, we have a little bit higher percentage of paraprofessionals in the system who are educators of color working with them, who may be interested in becoming a teacher and finding that pathway to become a teacher.

So there's there's a group that remains untapped at this point that we think could be just right for the profession.

What would you say to viewers, others who are watching and wonder what they can do to help recruit and retain high quality educators that wonder what they can do to support K through 12 education or pre-K through job education in the state of Indiana?

What advice would you give to folks who feel like they'd like to see some changes, but they're not sure where to begin?

So a very interesting statistic in this is throughout the country.

Indiana is not unique.

If a family is asked directly about their satisfaction with their school, with their home school district, they rate them extremely high.

If they are asked the same question, but just ask about education in general, that number drops dramatically.

And so what we have to recognize is how do we talk about our educators and how do we talk about school in general to one another?

And when we notice some of the nonsense that has existed in some of these school board meetings where folks who don't even have students enrolled in their schools are coming in and creating so much angst and turmoil.

And that is not an issue at all for the educators, the school district or the families who are sending their students.

This is what creates the drama that forces folks to say, I just don't want to be a part of that system and it causes them to make other decisions for their careers.

So I think if we really spend time elevating the great work that our educators do every single day and to really speak highly of that work and encourage others, that they see those skills and talents that are there and say, yes, this is something that you should be doing.

All right.

Just quickly follow up and what you would see is some of an example of those issues that folks just bring in for the almost the perhaps the sake of politicizing issues or creating chaos that are really issues that you hear educators or students or even school families talking about on their own.

the most famous would be in the litter box in schools.

And folks that when nearly every high school student and most middle school students and several elementary kids have a phone that's part of their cam ra, I think you would see that there would be some evidence of this in my home school district is the Evansville Vanderburgh School Corporation.

The member of the community that brought that forward is not employed by the school district, nor do they have anyone in the school system at all.

And they're bringing this forward with no evidence to support.

And it makes the news.

And for folks like my mom, where, you know, my nieces are all out of the school system, she now watches the news and wonders what's going on in our schools.

And that's it's just those type of things that are occurring that then cause people to question when it really isn't true.

So talk directly to your teachers and your students and folks in the system to learn more at the school system rather than clicking on your favorite conspiracy theory.

At my.

All right.

Well, that's all the time we have for this episode of Politically Speaking.

But I do want to thank our guests, Keith Gambill, president of the Indiana State Teachers Association.

I'm Elizabeth Bennion, reminding you that it takes all of us to make democracy work.

We'll see you next time.