Welcome to, politically speaking.

I'm Elizabeth Bennion, chancellor's professor of political science and director of community engagement at Indiana University, South Bend.

Today, we're joined by Indiana Chamber president and CEO Vanessa Green Sinders.

We'll be discussing the chamber's top legislative priorities for 2025, including key economic development initiatives, education and workforce strategies, and proposed reforms to help Indiana businesses and communities thrive.

Thank you so much for being here.

Thanks for having me.

I want to start by asking you to give us a general overview.

What do you see as key challenges and opportunities for this 2025 legislative session?

So, well, first, you know, great to be here.

As we were talking before the show, I am finishing my first year as the state chambers, president and CEO.

And over the course of that year, I have had the opportunity to travel around the state to meet with our local chamber partners.

Businesses of all sizes, all sectors.

We are the state's largest business.

Broad based business advocacy organization.

And what, those visits have shown to me is just what a kind of collaborative convening opportunity that we have at the chamber to bring people together to take advantage of those opportunities and solve the state's challenges.

And so when we look about look ahead to 2025, obviously, we have a new landscape.

At the at the state level and at the federal level.

Right.

But here in Indiana with governor elect Bron, coming on board.

And I think that is just a great opportunity for all stakeholders to, work together to address, you know, what Indiana needs to do to keep staying on top and keep being that best place for business and best place for people to live and work and come visit.

Does Braun's background as a business owner, as well as a state legislator, change the dynamics of the conversation you're able to have with a governor?

I mean, I think it's a great dynamic.

And what I you know, one of the things that really excites me about, governor elect Braun, is, you know, his engagement, right?

I think he wants to be really engaged.

And he has that business background, and he knows about kind of, the kind of has that business acumen.

And so we're looking forward to working with him.

Let's talk about a few different policies that the chamber is interested in.

First of all, one goal is, of course, always attracting and retaining talent.

Indiana is focused on in-migration getting people here as well as retaining workers.

What are some things you'd like to see happen in that area?

So, yeah.

So look, you know, all of the Indiana Chambers policy priorities stem from our economic vision plan.

Indiana prosperity, 2035.

The state chamber has a history of about every ten years putting out these plans, getting stakeholders from across the state together to really think about what are those next key things that we need to focus on as a state to keep us moving forward and not surprise in our last plan that we released last August, workforce development talent attraction retention is completely top of mind for employers, right?

And so some of the things that we are thinking a lot about, obviously, that in migration is, is really important, bringing more people to the state and having them stay here and be part of our economy.

But also upskilling, right?

How can we?

We have a ton of homegrown Hoosier talent across the state, and how are we making sure that the education system and the business community is working together to create really, kind of, you know, career, some signals from the career perspective of what skills that they, that those workers need, right, to be able to, sit in those jobs that all of our employers need.

And so for us, elevating that connection between employers and, education and making sure that the right demand signals are being sent for what credentials employers need so that the education system can, can kind of put together those those curriculums and provide those skills is something that we're really focused on.

Can you talk a little bit about what that looks like in practice?

You have lots of member businesses across the state.

How do you get information from them to their local chambers and then up to you at the state level?

So I would say, a lot of different ways.

But look, you know, one of, within the state chamber, we actually have a affiliate organization, the Institute for Workforce Excellence, which is solely dedicated to providing employers with resources to to address their workforce needs.

So we have decided that, you know, workforce is so important that we need that our own kind of entity to help make those connections with intermediaries, to help bring people together.

And, you know, maybe I think a great example that I would mention of just some of the broader work that's happening in the state that we're involved in is this whole concept of work based learning, right?

Whether that's internships or apprenticeships.

And the high school diploma redesign that Secretary Jenner has been working on the last year.

You know, some of that is to address, you know, the need to make sure that students are getting the, kind of skills and education to thrive in whatever career they decide to, to do.

And the business community is at the table and wants to be at the table as that's implemented.

And I think our role as the state chamber is working with our local chamber partners.

I mean, South Bend got a, got an awesome, local chamber and leader in, Jeff Ray, who I know, you know, they are doing a ton of work in the workforce space.

And so it's incumbent upon us at the state level to elevate that work and make connections and, and, you know, solve that problem.

And there has been some discussion and some disagreement about work based learning and how much freedom businesses should have, how much regulation or how many specific learning objectives should be in place.

You have some school administrators who are concerned that there will be too much freedom, and students may not be getting the type of education that they need to prepare them.

So, how do you address some of these concerns about both the changes in the diploma and the work based learning programs in particular?

I mean, look, I think that that speaks to stakeholder engagement, right?

And the implementation process, and this is doing a new thing right in Indiana.

But I think it's really exciting.

And so I think it's incumbent upon both government, education and business to continue to work together to work through those issues.

And obviously, I think that that the diploma, kind of, you know, Secretary Jenner talks about the flexibility that she wants to make sure that it has so that it addresses some of those concerns.

And I think, you know, we look forward to working through that implementation with her and other leaders, in the future.

So lots of communication with all stakeholders involved.

Now, what about your, push for an Office of Entrepreneurship?

Can you talk a little bit about why such a thing would be important and what you hope such an office would do?

So look, I guess I would start by saying, you know, small business is the heart of so many communities.

And I think that, you know, at its heart, entrepreneurship is about small business, right?

And or at least kind of cultivating that first, first little bit of a business that can then grow.

And when we think about it for the state chamber, you know, 80% of our member companies have less than 100 employees.

We have a huge part of our membership that is smaller, smaller businesses.

And I you know, our belief just to our core is that that's a really important economic engine for the state.

And we want to make sure that those businesses have the resources that they need to continue growing.

And I think when you look at the statistics for us and the metrics for Indiana in terms of startups, and entrepreneurs and, and all of that, we rank really high on kind of the viability of startups and kind of entrepreneurs.

And once they get going, like I think, they, they, they, they, they are able to be successful where we don't rank as high compared to other states is the number of those startups.

Right.

And so I think one thing that this Office of Entrepreneurship does is kind of put a focus on it.

Right?

And kind of a one place for some of these discussions and resources to come together.

Because there are so many people across the state that are focused on this and want to do more and so many great stories, but how do you kind of bring it all together?

And I think this is one where we are excited to work, you know, not only with the legislature on it, but also governor elect Ron, who has talked about the importance of entrepreneurship, of small business, of kind of supporting homegrown, talent and business and all of that.

So I think it's a great opportunity for all of us in 2025.

So the idea be to have some state funding then to support this office, which then could provide incentives, training and education, all of those things are on the table.

I also think that kind of surveying all of the different resources that are out there and programs that are underway and trying to kind of make sure all of that makes sense.

And, and bringing that all together in one place.

Right.

And, you know, at least in the kind of the way I think governor elect Ron and his team are thinking about entrepreneurship, they have kind of place that office or that concept within the, kind of Secretary of Commerce purview, which is also kind of a consolidation of some different things.

So I think there's look, there's a lot of change going on, but that's a lot of opportunity to work through some of this and figure out exactly what it looks like, really solve that puzzle in that gap between favorable business climate and success of business, and give us the number who actually are starting and giving people the tools they need to be successful, whether that's incentives, whether that's, business support or, you know, mentor or whatever it is.

Like, there's a lot of ways to skin that cat.

So.

Okay.

Now, civil justice is an issue that a lot of folks might not think that much about in terms of litigation, in terms of our civil legal system.

But it is, in fact, on the chamber's radar.

Could you talk a little bit about that and why it matters?

I know I when I saw this topic, I was excited because, again, I think that it is a under the radar issue.

But those type of frivolous, frivolous lawsuits cost business a lot of money and, time and resources that could be spent on investing back in Indiana, investing in their workers, investing in economic growth.

And so this is an issue, kind of thinking about, kind of lawsuits from the business perspective that we have taken on.

And I think that you'll see some efforts around public nuisance, this legislative session where, look, there's examples of, you know, one city, sued key, for kind of their cars being too easy to break into and saying that that cost the police too much money to investigate.

Right.

And, so addressing kind of those type of issues, another topic that I think might come up is, premise liability, where, again, someone might be walking down the sidewalk, in front of an apartment complex and they hurt themselves, and then they sue that apartment complex owner.

Right.

And so kind of thinking about I think that the business community and we are part of a bigger coalition just thinking through some of those targeted ways where we can address those issues in a way that makes sense.

Right.

And takes in stakeholder feedback and, and, and all of that.

But, it is an issue for the business community.

So how do you balance?

Of course, any time we talk about any kind of civil reforms, tort reforms, etc., anything that shifts the burden of liability, we worry also about consumers, about customers, about their, rights.

So if that apartment owner has a sheet of black ice and put no salt down and someone injures themselves, is that different than somebody sort of not looking in or tripping over their own untied shoelaces?

I mean, no, look, where is that line?

I mean, look, I think that you raise a good point, and I think that's why we are one voice in a broader stakeholder conversation, right?

With legislature about this, because all of those, perspectives need to be heard.

But I think our view is we want to we want to make sure that the business voice is represented and we are raising these issues because they are, challenging and having a negative impact on, you know, kind of businesses, operations and ability to, you know, invest more resources in different things.

But I think that you've got to, you know, navigate all of that.

So, yes.

Okay.

So how about, Second Chance employee ease and employment.

We have folks, of course, many returning citizens, people who have served their sentences, and they are ready to return to work.

But it can be a challenge and a risk, perhaps to the business, in some of these cases as well.

And so what kinds of policies are you advocating?

What would you like to see happen there?

So these folks can become a productive part of our economy and society?

Yeah.

Look, I think you raise a really good point.

And it ties back to workforce and our need for the state's need for workforce and more workers.

And, you know, I don't have any specific legislative policies in mind right now.

But what I would say more on the implementation side, is through our Institute for Workforce Excellence and some of the work that we're doing on workforce more generally, you know, identifying populations that have not been in the workforce and should be in the workforce, right, to help us increase that labor participation number is something that we've identified as a priority.

And that would include justice involved, individuals.

Right.

And which I think, you know, get a second chance.

And so I think we are all about taking a holistic look and, and giving people an opportunity and providing them with the skills and the resources and the training.

And that's not just us.

That's a that's a broader conversation.

But I think that, you know, we need to Indiana has been blessed with such great economic growth.

We are a great place to do business, right.

There's so many announcements about existing businesses expanding new businesses coming to the state.

But all of the regions in this region?

Yes, exactly.

But that's going to require talent, right?

And we need to look both within and from other places.

Right.

And I think that that that includes second Chance, so that it sounds like it includes second chance and returning citizens, but also folks perhaps like, parents who have stepped out of the workforce and had to return back at a slightly older age, having been out for a while.

So, kind of.

Oh, yeah.

Yes.

And actually, you you bring up parents.

Reminds me of kind of another thing that, again, maybe traditionally is not something that you would think of as the state chamber engaging on, but again, related to workforce childcare, the, the, the fact that there is not enough childcare and the cost of it is a barrier to both people entering the workforce, returning to the workforce, staying in the workforce.

And we actually commissioned a study with Early Learning Indiana and the U.S. Chamber Foundation last fall that quantified that economic cost to employers at, you know, I don't know, 3 or $4 billion, right.

In a year because of absenteeism and, you know, people, people not coming back to the workforce.

And so it's a real issue and something that the legislature last session, there were some there were some bills that were passed to try to kind of address, streamlining of regulations for childcare centers and some micro center pilots and other things.

And that's an issue that we've identified in our priorities that we want to continue working with the legislature and, governor elect Braun because we think it's a real, look, I would say opportunity, but, you know, a challenge, right, in the state.

And if we want to keep attracting, and growing, we need to address it.

So are there opportunities for employers to allow for, onsite daycare or does that tend to be very cost prohibitive?

I mean, look, there are definitely examples of that, right?

In certain probably more larger employers.

Right.

But every employer has to kind of do those calculations and figure out what their needs are right for their workforce.

But I think increasingly there's lots of examples of, kind of an employer, the community and, and maybe government coming together to come up with a solution that helps their community, including some philosophic support, too.

And so I think that, you know, look, there's lots of talk about the kind of fiscal, kind of environment that we're in for the state and the fact that there's, you know, not going to be a lot of extra dollars, around this legislative session.

And so think really strategically about where those dollars go.

So I think thinking about some of those other ideas are important too.

And, because I think it's going to take a lot of different things to, address childcare.

It's interesting when you mentioned philanthropic support, because we so often think about, philanthropic donations and contributions going toward non profit organizations as business being completely separate.

But it sounds like you're saying all of these things need to work together for the community to think I, I am thinking of an example in I think Oakland County down in Spencer where the Boys and Girls Club down there is working with the community and the, Allen County Chamber of Commerce on a child care solution with one of their big employers.

Right.

So it's like all different folks coming together.

And I'm sure there's there's examples of that up in South Bend, too.

All over the state.

But we're going to need all of it.

So now one thing we need all over the state, and of course we see it in terms of this biggest chunk of the budget is, strong k-through-12 education.

We talked a little about that earlier.

Is there anything new that you'd like to see there, or are you do you think it's time to look at these big changes that we've just had and making them work in terms of the degree requirements?

I mean, look, I think that there's obviously been a lot of change.

And so I do think that thinking about the implementation and having the employer voice at the table is really important.

And I go back to our economic vision plan, on education or the kind of education pillar.

And I think where we want to provide support is just reinforcing the business community support for, you know, early elementary and, you know, good education, right?

We're not going to have a strong workforce if we don't start at the earliest ages.

And so we've identified things like reading and math skills at the early elementary, level.

And we've weighed in, in support of efforts that have, you know, in the past, at the legislature to address some of those things, because that's important, right, to our employers.

And I think that, you know, it's going to be a continued topic.

Right?

And how we figure that out is that like expanding the early childhood education would also dovetail with childcare is the same thing.

We should really call it early early learning or early learning with things delayed or learning.

And then, yes, those key employment skills as we move into that higher tech sector.

Yes.

Okay.

Now what about taxation?

Right.

Always an issue for business owners, big and small, as well as for ordinary.

Who does anyone matter where they are and what, what would you like to see in this area?

Anything that the chamber is advocating for in this session?

Sure.

Well, I would start at overall, you know, Indiana has a has a great tax climate for business.

When you look at us, compared to other states in the Midwest and the, nation.

That said, I'm also a big believer and no matter how good you are, you can always be better.

As we continue to try to look at ways to make Indiana even more competitive and stay competitive, right?

The world is constantly changing.

Industries are evolving, and businesses are making decisions about where to go and where to expand.

And we want to be at the forefront of all of that.

And so one of the things that we will, you know, we did a tax study, we have our chamber foundation does lots of studies, like the child care study, but we also did a tax study last fall that kind of looked at, you know, where is Indiana really competitive for business from the tax perspective?

Are there places where there's room to improve.

And one of those places that we found that there's room to improve is around business, personal property tax.

And we just aren't as competitive as other states in that.

And so we are advocating that there are reforms made there to, lower that burden for business.

And I would say why that's really important for Indiana is that business personal property tax, has more of an impact on, kind of capital intensive industries like advanced manufacturing and life sciences, which is a lot of Indiana.

And so that means that they end up with a higher effective tax rate.

And so we think that that, that should be addressed.

And I think overall, obviously, you alluded to it.

There's lots of conversations about tax overall and property tax.

And so I think from our perspective, we want to make sure that as those reforms are done, that they are kind of, you know, you think about all all payers, and when you change something over here, what is that impact over here?

And we want to make sure that folks are understanding what it means for the business community, which ties back to economic growth and, and workforce development and all of that and whatnot.

So we will be engaged there now.

Right?

So it's interesting about things affecting each other.

So you cut state property tax, maybe local government struggle who were providing some of the infrastructure that the business required.

It's everybody's got to come together and talk about it all right.

And just quickly for people who might not know what business personal property tax is, could you give an example of what that looks like?

It is a tax that you pay on actual, you know, property in your business.

And so it's just, you know, I think overall, Indiana businesses pay $1.5 billion in business personal property tax every year.

It's 15% of the total property tax that's collected in the state.

And again, because it's on that property, those capital intensive, you know, industries pay more of it.

Okay.

So in this, these final, minute that we have here, if somebody wanted to get engaged in the chamber and somehow get involved or contact their local chamber, what would you tell them?

How should they do this?

So, look, if you're interested in advocacy, we are doing a chamber day, March 11th at the state Capitol in partnership with all the local chambers around the state, because as I started this conversation, working in partnership is really key.

And we want the voice of business at the local, regional and state level to be as strong as possible.

So we'd love to have you come to that chamber day.

And there's more information on our website about it.

Wonderful.

Thank you much so much for being here.

And that is all the time we have for this week's Politically Speaking.

I want to thank our guest, Indiana Chamber President and CEO Vanessa Greene Sanders, for joining us.

I'm Elizabeth Petty, reminding you that it takes all of us to make democracy work.

We'll see you next time.

This Wnit, local production has been made possible in part by viewers like you.

Thank you.