Welcome to Politically Speaking.

I'm Elizabeth Bennion chancellor's professor of political science and director of community Engagement at Indiana University South Bend.

It's been nearly six weeks since the United Auto Workers Union began striking in Michigan, Missouri and Ohio.

Since then, the strike has grown to 22 states, with over 45,000 workers walking the picket line.

This is the first time the union has struck all Big three automakers at the same time.

To talk about this issue, we sit down with Glenn Stevens Jr., executive director of MICHauto, whose mission is to promote, retain and grow Michigan's auto industry.

And Daniel Graff, labor historian and director of the Higgins Labor program at the University of Notre Dame.

Thank you both for joining us.

Dan, what can you tell us about the reasons for this strike?

And what do we know about the tentative agreement that Ford and the UAW have reached?

Sure.

Well, thanks for having me on.

The Ford tentative agreement certainly good news for all involved.

I think the reasons for the strike are both simple and complex, you might say.

I mean, on the one hand, the UAW, who has lost out since certainly since the recession of 2007, really had not experienced in the last two contract any of the productivity gains or profits converted to wages that they're accustomed to seeing historically.

And they're trying to win back higher wages, better benefits, better pensions, a closing that the two tiered system of new hires making less money, really inserting the cost of living adjustments that were deemed by the UAW as trendsetters way back in the late 1940s and early fifties.

So really, this strike for the UAW, I think was the the big three are making heavy profits.

This is a very good time for the auto sector in terms of selling American made vehicles.

And they wanted their share and they saw this was the moment with tight labor markets to do it.

I think the Ford tentative agreement, I hesitate to say too much because we've only heard from news outlets this is what we think is in there.

This is a tentative agreement.

The union has to share the the agreement with the members.

The members have to vote on it.

But it does seem like and the union is certainly painting it as a win, 25% across the board wage increases the the gaining back of cost of living adjustments, the narrowing and closing of the two tiered system, even the right to strike over plant closures, which is something we might want to talk about a little later.

And thinking about the future here.

So too early for me to say for sure what's in there.

I was certainly scouring all the news sources I could before coming on, but it's sounds to me so far like a win win for Ford and the UAW.

And that might mean that that GM and Stellantis are coming home soon.

Glenn, do you expect that this announcement of a tentative deal with Ford will bring the other automakers along and that we would expect to see a resolution at some point soon?

Or is it just too early to tell?

Well, I think it's a good signal.

It was when Unifor settled in Canada with the Detroit three.

And I think this is definitely a good sign, too, as Dan said.

And that was a great summary of why we got to where we're at and where we're at right now.

We're uncertain as to what all the details are, but it bodes well for Stellantis and GM because they've been doing this together in a very unprecedented way.

Now, how significant is it, Glenn, that the UAW did strike all three automakers at the same time?

Well, you know, I think and Dan knows this from his history, we have to step back and look at the huge inflection point that the UAW is in right now with regards to their history and where they're coming from.

They're coming out of a real tough period with scandal and quite a bit of disarray, government oversight and a new leader, a new leader who did not come into been to control or power with mandate and so has sought to get that mandate from the union members to a really interesting Interesting some would say guerrilla warfare tactic negotiation but and it's been tough.

It's been a tough 40 plus days here in Detroit.

And with the UAW and the rhetoric and the messaging that's gone back and forth, very, very tense.

But I think that I think we're going to be in a place where we're going to come out together and time will tell whether it's a win win, but it feels like it can be now Dan.

Speaking of tough times, what is a strike of that length mean for the families of autoworkers?

What effect does that have on the workers?

What kind of protections do they have?

Sure, sure.

I mean, when you know, it certainly depends on the industry and the strength of a particular union and how much they've been able to build up a strike fund.

I believe the UAW members striking now we're getting $500 a week pay.

I believe I could be wrong on that.

But the short of it is nobody wants to strike.

It's stressful.

They lose pay.

You're never getting in strike pay what you get by working on the job.

And it just creates a lot of uncertainty.

So sometimes there's a safety valve component to a strike where there's a little bit of liberation feeling.

We need to burn off some of this nervous energy.

We need to remind our employers that we matter and withdraw our labor, but that it's stressful times.

I grew up in a union household and my father, I believe, struck.

He was a unionized pipefitter at a power plant and when he was on strike, we felt it in the household, not only with tightening the budgets, but everybody was walking on eggshells because we didn't want to, you know, sort of just create a sort of tenser situation than already was.

So there's just a lot of spillover effects in families, in communities.

So I think ending the strike 40 days is a long time.

So I think whether the UAW will want to hold out more with GM and Stellantis and I think, Rick, that's right.

On sort of talking about trying to read Shawn Fein as a leader and what what the UAW as new leadership is thinking here long term.

But I certainly think it's a it's it's challenging.

And whenever people flippantly think that when workers strike, it's simply irresponsible.

There's a lot of calculation and that goes into strikes.

Unions don't make these decisions lightly.

If I could say a little bit more about the history here, what I found really interesting about Shane and his rhetoric and his very public persona in the strike is that he really has seemed to be channeling the ghost of Walter Ruther, the legendary UAW president, who more than anyone you might say was responsible for bringing the UAW and auto work into the promised land of the middle class.

In the late forties through 1970 when he died.

And Fein really seems to be wanting to reclaim the mantle of the UAW as spokesperson And for workers more generally, we are fighting for the working class.

We are fighting for record profits, giving record contracts.

And so I do think it's going to be interesting to see where this leads.

But the UAW and the auto industry are way smaller and less powerful than they were in Walter Luther's heyday.

So whether or not Fein and the UAW can set a trend that will spill over into other sectors is an open question.

But he seems to be aiming for reclaiming that mantle of, As the UAW goes, so goes the fate of American workers.

Glen, I wonder if you have any comments on that.

And also from an industry perspective, what does this strike mean for things like the supply chain and for the auto industry?

Well, and that's where it's really felt.

And not that it's not felt.

There were 52,000, roughly, UAW workers out either through direct stand ups or layoffs that were affiliated with plants that went down.

That has a multiplier factor of about ten.

So we kind of generally say that for every direct OEM job, there's a multiplier of ten jobs in the suppliers, in the communities around them.

So now we're talking about 520,000 people who are directly impacted.

Their wages are hurt and that doesn't include the restaurants and the things around it.

So I can tell you and I talk to them every day, I talked to them last night.

A lot of these suppliers have been hit real hard.

We're so glad to see that there's some appears to be some resolution with Ford.

And they went back to work right away, which is very interesting.

That's not traditional either.

They usually have to go through the process.

And the other thing I would add, where to pick up on something Dan said about where is this going?

It's going south.

And what I mean by that, it's literally going south.

The UAW is going to take this win and they are going to take it into rivian.

They're going to in Illinois and they're going to take that into, you know, Nissan and Tennessee and Tesla in Texas.

They're going to really try and use this to to do something they haven't been able to do, and that is organize in right to work states in nonunion places.

And if I could add to what Glenn said, who I mistakenly called Rick a minute ago because he reminds me of a friend of mine named Rick.

So sorry about that, Glenn.

I, I think that the that Sean Fain is assuming this responsibility because he's been very openly talking his response to the big three when they've said you cannot price us out versus our competitors because of our high labor costs.

Fans response has been this is not going to be a problem because because we're going to organize.

Those are future UAW members.

And the UAW, as we know, has not been successful in organizing the South or foreign owned plants or Tesla to this point.

So this is a really interesting future scenario.

And then you bring in the whole electric vehicle transition and battery makers and whether they'll be covered.

That was one of the demands that the UAW was making, that as far as I know, only General Motors I've seen has agreed to bring in the jointly owned plants with foreign companies producing batteries only They have agreed to bring in those workers under the G.M.

contract with the UAW.

So I'm curious if there's anything on that in this Ford tentative agreement or if Glenn knows anything about the other one.

The one thing that on that is that the the battery plants are all JV's because that technology, unfortunately.

But this is the world all comes from three countries right now, Japan, China and Korea, mostly from China.

But the jobs are battery companies that are sprinkled throughout all the way from Michigan, all the way down into the Mid-South and south.

And those plants are separate agreements.

Those are not part of the master collective bargaining agreement.

And really by by labor law, we're not supposed to be on the table for this negotiations.

But, of course, everything is a little bit unorthodox right now.

And they were put on the table.

Where that shakes out with the three, I think is a big question mark.

And only one of those plants to represent is Lordstown.

The Ultium plant in Lordstown is actually in operation.

Almost all the rest of them are either construction or having started construction.

There or haven't started hiring workers yet.

I did wonder if the insertion into the Ford tentative Agreement of the UAW gaining the right to strike over plant closures is related to that transition.

question And that's one way of the UAW trying to address that transition and make it part of what they're calling the just transition.

Is it possible that this approach of sort of broadcasting we intend to strike in other places and we're not done with the strikes actually makes it more difficult to negotiate with those folks, those shops that are not union shops and in those states that are right to work, states that they become more nervous and more resistant to unionization.

Well, it's an interesting.

Go ahead, Glenn.

Sorry.

All.

There's there's definitely a history of the Mid-South and the South putting up the wall with regards to the the unions.

There's only three assembly plants in North America outside of the Detroit three.

There's only three assembly plants in North America that are not in right to work states.

So they're all in right there basically all in right to work states.

They're generally in rural areas, those plants and I actually worked with Toyota when they built the one in Georgetown, Kentucky, and have been in many of them in the Mid-South.

They've been life changing economic development places.

And so the UAW is going into places which have changed lives, make good wages, good benefits, and the cultures are pretty strong in those facilities, in those companies.

So this is really going to be interesting and I would add to that, the complexity of that there's those environments for the UAW is that most of the elected officials in those states, state government and and elected officials in Congress are frankly hostile to the UAW and the unionization of those those enterprises.

We saw that with Volkswagen in Tennessee several years ago.

A German company very used to working with unions in its home country.

And basically Tennessee's senators and congressional delegations as well as governor were like, no Volkswagen.

No, no, no.

And so I think it's a legal and in a cultural situation there in those in those states.

So Shawn has embraced this as an opportunity.

And it will be really interesting to see if if he can deliver and if so, how?

I mean, if you if you extend the challenges of unionizing in America today and you just take Starbucks as an example, it's not just in southern states or right to work areas.

Right.

Over 300 Starbucks stores have gone through the legal process of gaining union recognition under the federal government.

And not a single one has a collective bargaining agreement because Starbucks refuses.

So I think this is going to raise bigger questions in the near future as to what is the role of unions in the political economy of the country, even if lots of more workers seem to be saying we want unionization, That's a national question, I guess, is what I mean to add to what Glenn was saying.

Yeah.

And Glenn, I want to back up for just one second.

I think that most of our viewers may know what right to work means.

And Indiana is a right to work state.

And Michigan, of course, has changed a little bit about whether it is or isn't based on the political leadership of that state.

Could you just tell our viewers who might not know what that means and and why we're raising that in this conversation?

Yeah, in essence, and in short form.

And Dan can expand upon this.

It's basically if it doesn't mean that unions aren't welcome in the state or allowed in the state, any facility can unionize.

But the worker has the choice whether or not they want to join the union and pay the union dues.

And that's a big difference.

Yes, you are correct.

In Michigan, we haven't been able to decide one way or another, but we did become a right to work state under Governor Snyder for eight years, and that was pretty quickly reversed this past year or this current year when the legislature flipped in Michigan.

And we, of course, have a Democratic governor.

So now we are no longer a right to work state.

Some companies would argue and some people would argue that it doesn't make a difference either way, but certainly it will play into this situation.

And just to add to that, in a as Glenn said, doesn't mean unions are illegal.

Sometimes people think that that's what that means in a right to work state.

It simply means that a union and an employer cannot negotiate a contract where every member of that bargaining unit is responsible for contributing to the contracts enforcement.

Technically, in U.S. labor law, no one can be required to join a union, But in a non right to work state, you can have a collective bargaining agreement that requires even those who don't want to join the union to have to contribute.

They're paying fees instead of dues.

But the argument is they're represented in getting all the benefits because that's American labor law.

Contract covers everyone, not just the members.

Unlike in some other countries.

So that that's a technical thing that really right to work as a term doesn't capture very well.

And in most parts of the world when you hear right to work, they mean your right to have a job in the U.S.

It's this complicated thing about the relationship of the controversy of your labor unions.

So I want to go back to that.

Go ahead.

No, I'm just saying that was better explained by the labor professor.

Thanks, Dan.

I want to ask about the ongoing sticking points and terms of what issues are the major issues that need to be resolved, do you think, to reach agreements with all three?

Well, I think we both probably a little bit in both, but I think that 25% number was a threshold number.

I think the union had targeted a 25% wage increase over the life of the contract, and that's what the Ford tentative agreement represented.

Now, no one, including the OEMs, was in disagreement that a wage increase was needed.

And, you know, American the American workforce has been falling behind.

You've seen a labor movement push forward pretty strongly now.

So I think that was one thing and that that critical threshold was.

Matt, we'll see what happens with the other two.

Some of the things were we're really taking care of the unions.

I'd like a move towards the limiting or making a quicker accessibility from a Tier two wage to a full wage at the UAW.

One thing that is definitely been out there was on the wish list is restoring full pensions.

That's not happening.

That's not really something that happens much in industry or many industries these days.

So I think that of their list of ten, they were able to knock off quite a few of them as we see it today with where this tentative agreement stands.

And I'll just add, I think cost of living adjustments is a critical component.

They got that with Ford.

I think the UAW, that's one of theirs.

I mean, one of the ten is going to have to keep negotiating every few years.

Yeah, exactly.

You're protected during the life of the contract from inflation.

And then I think what's interesting is the request or the demand for the four day workweek at five day's pay.

Right.

They weren't talking about taking a pay cut, but raising questions about that work life balance that certainly was deemed audacious, not just by Fain himself, who described it that way, but the big three saying that's non-negotiable.

It's interesting.

That was something that the UAW abandoned back in the fifties but had that was a demand that they were making coming out of World War Two.

And it was on the union's agenda.

And then it dropped during the Cold War heyday of like no full production matters more.

I don't think that's a non-negotiable demand of the union, but I thought that was a really interesting sending that flair out about work life balance and about what is an appropriate workweek.

We assume 40 hours a week is the norm.

If we were here talking about this in 1930, we would assume 50 to 60 hours was the norm.

So these are customs rather than laws of what is an appropriate workweek.

It will be interesting to see if that conversation continues not just within the auto sector, but elsewhere.

But I certainly think that's not an on the go.

That's that is definitely a negotiable demand.

And they didn't mention it at all in the Ford tentative agreement.

That idea of a four day workweek, we see a number of studies in other countries where they have found that productivity has increased.

But there are lots of questions about if it will work here and if it would work in the auto industry.

Do you expect any of the Big three to include that in a contract?

Glenn, I don't think so.

And it's it's really not possible unless you really, really make a lot of shift change and there's a lot of ways to run your operations.

But, you know, this industry is really lean.

That's also, you know, put a lot of pressure on the workforce.

And so that work life balance issue should not be minimized.

These workers have really put a lot into this and let's let's not forget that they are the ones that hit the assembly lines in the middle of the pandemic to get American manufacturing up and working.

We cannot forget that.

So it should be understated, but I don't think that's going to happen.

But there is going to be things remember, the things we're talking about here are very high level.

As Dan knows, there are hundreds of local issues, plant issues that get negotiation.

A lot of those are work life balance, environment, you know, tool allowances, things like that.

So, you know, hopefully those are moving forward too.

But I think we're going to see that.

And I think that, again, as they go south and they talk to some of these other plants, those companies in those plants that might not have that culture and might not have that balance, that's an opening for the UAW.

Now, what might this strike mean for global competitiveness of American automakers?

And is there any such thing as an American automaker anymore with plants being located in different places and parts being made in different places?

Well, one of the things you heard me say a couple of times is the Detroit three.

Mr. Fain did refer to that is Big three all the time.

I'm pretty sure that was intentional in these negotiations, but it's really not.

And there's only two Detroit companies now that are based in Michigan, in the United States, and that's Ford and GM.

GM Stellantis is a French based Denmark headquartered company that is.

Or Amsterdam, I'm sorry, that is a global company that is now the third largest company in the world.

They're actually larger than General Motors and Ford.

What the international playing field is one thing.

It is definitely an international playing field.

But our our domestic companies have pulled back.

General Motors coming out of of Europe, Ford basically coming out of some other continents.

This is the most profitable market.

This is the market they want to play in.

But the competition here is like we've never seen it.

And I'm not just talking about Honda, Toyota, and now we have Tesla, now we have Rivian and we have companies like BYD coming from China with low cost, very high tech EVs that are going to enter this market.

So the ability for the Detroit three and the labor and the UAW to work together to compete is never been more important.

Dan, in the last minute, we have your thoughts on that.

Well, I think Glenn knows that better than I, and I'm interested in learning more about that, that global competition.

It's so uncertain to me thinking about this transition to electric vehicles.

Maybe the point I'll leave with was that a small point in a news article that I saw in the Ford tentative agreement that also points to some interesting developments, whether this is really in the agreement, I don't know.

I haven't confirmed it, but the two week paid parental leave, Juneteenth is a paid holiday and five weeks paid vacation, which I'm assuming means for for starting workers.

Those were all interesting insertions, perhaps in the contract that point to some other questions that Americans as a whole and everyone needs to be raising about the care economy, the differences between paid and unpaid work, who's taking care of our kids?

How do we manage work life balance?

I think you can use this UAW conflict and look at all sorts of questions that are going to be unfolding with different answers in the future.

And something that we definitely see from a lot of younger workers asking those work life balance, quality of life questions.

Well, unfortunately, that's all the time we have for this week's Politically Speaking.

I want to thank our guests, Glenn Stevens Jr., executive director of MICHauto, and Daniel Graff, director of the Higgins Labor program at the University of Notre Dame.

I'm Elizabeth Bennion reminding you that it takes all of us to make democracy work.

We'll see you next time.

This WNIT local production has been made possible in part by viewers like you.

Thank you.