- (female announcer) Production funding for Behind The Headlines is made possible in part by the WKNO Production Fund, the WKNO Endowment Fund, and by viewers like you, thank you.

- Candidate for mayor, Van Turner, tonight on Behind The Headlines [intense orchestral music] I'm Eric Barnes with The Daily Memphian.

Thanks for joining us.

I am joined tonight by Van Turner, former county commissioner, former head of the local NAACP, and candidate for Memphis mayor.

Thanks for being here again.

- Thank you.

- Along with Bill Dries, reporter with The Daily Memphian.

For those who've been watching, this is one of a series of one-on-one profiles we're doing with the major candidates for Memphis mayor.

We've recently done Michelle McKissack.

We've talked to Karen Camper, JW Gibson.

We will soon be talking to Floyd Bonner, Paul Young, former Mayor Willie Herenton.

It's important to know our criteria for what is a major candidate.

It is basically financial viability in terms of the amount of money raised and the number of donors, it's previous election success, and it's the limited polling that's available.

There's been no magic to the order.

It's just been as we've been able to get everybody scheduled.

So some will come after early voting, some were before early voting.

And I should also say that all those are available at wkno.org or you can go to YouTube and search for WKNO, all those different profiles.

You can also go to The Daily Memphian and get to the stories Bill has done about them as well as the video interviews.

All this follows a debate we did on criminal justice with some of the major candidates back in April.

You can get that if you search for Daily Memphian on YouTube.

And we have on Tuesday at 7 PM on WKNO a mayoral debate with, at this point, six of the eight candidates I have mentioned so far.

Floyd Bonner has not committed.

He has also not declined.

Willie Herenton has said he's not going to be there.

Van Turner will be.

That, again, is August 15th on WKNO.

It'll be livestreamed on KNO.

It'll be on KNO-FM.

It'll be livestreamed through The Daily Memphian site.

And of course, if you miss it on Tuesday, it'll be archived in all those locations.

The election is October 5th, but early voting is September 15th.

And last point, Kontji Anthony, formerly of WMC, will be co-moderating that debate with me.

Thank you for being here with that big introduction.

I'll ask you a question I've asked other people 'cause it's a point of reference.

- Right.

- Has Jim Strickland, who's termed out, who's coming up to the end of his term, has he been successful?

Has he been successful in some ways and failed or not been as successful in others?

- Yeah, I think that he's been successful in many of the things that he has wanted to do.

Obviously, the thing that stands out is crime.

And I believe that there have been challenges there, and he would've probably wanted to be a little more successful or have that improved a little more by the time he left office.

Obviously, the pandemic was a big issue during his administration, and that affected crime and mental health.

And so I think that's something that he probably wanted to improve upon a little more.

- For you, if you win, what is your approach to crime?

We still have a crime problem.

I mean, what is that approach going to be?

- Well, you know, I'm not there to defund the police, but I am there to reform.

Obviously, we want more officers.

That's something that everyone has stated, but we also need to focus on intervention and prevention.

So that means using the example of what the Boys and Girls Club did in Craigmont.

The Boys and Girls Club goes into Craigmont, and they have this mentoring program for the young people that want to join 100% graduation rate as opposed to a 73% graduation rate for those at Craigmont who are not in that program.

That's an example that needs to be scaled up and needs to be modeled in all of our high schools, if possible.

And then, prevention.

We know that fifth grade reading levels are key.

If our young people are not reading on grade level by fifth grade, there's a chance of truancy and a chance that they drop out.

And obviously, we don't want any of that to happen because all that's left is to enter into perhaps a life of crime or doing some things that we don't want to see them doing.

So that's my strategy.

We are down by 500 officers, and we need those officers in order to do the community policing that so many individuals want.

- How do you get them hired?

I mean, Jim Strickland came in wanting to get to 2,500.

The number of police has been at 1,950, maybe a little over 2,000.

It's been in that range.

It is, to be fair, as he has pointed out and others have pointed out, police forces across the country, urban police forces particularly, are really struggling to hire.

But how would you get to 500 or get those 500 more?

- Yeah, well, I think what they just did in this budget was just passed, it was about approximately $800-million budget, they increased the pay for officers.

They have also put other incentives in place.

I think we just keep leaning into those kinds of things that will allow us to attract more officers to the force.

Also, we have to see what's going on with our young people who are here.

Have we reached out to LeMoyne-Owen College?

Have we reached out to Southwest?

Have we been reaching out to University of Memphis in order to make sure that we're cultivating those graduates going into a career of law enforcement?

And so we will lean into that as well.

Furthermore, we are the capital of the Mid-South.

That means we have relationships with Mississippi and Arkansas that we could utilize as well.

But I think we have to rebuild the trust.

Obviously, the Tyre Nichols incident has broken the trust.

So when we say reform, we mean top-down, bottom-up to rebuild that trust.

And once that happens, I think we can better incentivize individuals to join the force because the morale will be boosted, the trust will be there, and I think we can see the change and the reform that we need.

- Let me bring in Bill.

- And to your point about that, I think, just my opinion, our discussion about crime and police reform kind of swings like a pendulum based on what is happening at the moment.

So we go toward we gotta deal with crime.

Then, the pendulum swings and it's like we have to do something about the police.

We have to rebuild trust, as you said.

And if you look at this from the outside, you can get the feeling that those two pursuits are mutually exclusive or that they are opposing goals that if you have one, you can't have the other.

How do you get past that kind of rhythm that our local civic debate has taken on for several years now?

- Yeah, well, I think the Department of Justice investigation will assist.

Obviously, everyone is interested in the root cause, and I think it's important to have a third-party neutral come in and just call balls and strikes.

This is not the Memphis Police Department looking at itself.

This is not the mayor looking at what's going on.

This is not even the state.

This is the Department of Justice coming in with the neutral eyes saying, "These are the root causes, "these are the issues, this is what can be improved.

Here's our report.

Now, go."

And once we have that report, I think we can really in earnest, and in earnest, just start to rebuild that trust.

Because we can say to individuals in the community, "We know what led to the Tyre Nichols incident.

"The Department of Justice is going back five years.

"Here's a road to improvement.

"Help us to improve.

"Help us to rebuild this trust.

"Help us to get back to community policing."

And I think once individuals in Memphis and in this community see that plan of action, see what the report says, I think we can in earnest start building back what we need to build back.

That's trust between law enforcement and community, and we can chart out a better path.

- Mayor Strickland has expressed some concerns about the Department of Justice review and has voiced concern that it might make it more difficult for the Memphis Police Department to recruit the number of officers that it needs.

Do you share his concern on that specific point?

- No, I think it's the reverse.

I think once we show that we are cleaning house, this is a better force, it's a force that has a new direction, yes, it's taken a hit with the Tyre Nichols incident but there is an improvement plan, there's reform from the top-down, there's better leadership, there's better training, I think that will improve what's going on with the Memphis Police Department.

And we could probably attract more individuals who are a little concerned now.

I mean, obviously, we're pulling from the community.

Bill, I was at 201 just recently, and I saw officers greeting some of the individuals who were going into 201 Poplar.

Now, I'm not saying that they were going in for a criminal incident, but the officers know the individuals who are going into 201.

We all grew up together in this community, and so that's where we're pulling from, so we have to rebuild that trust.

We have to get back to community policing.

And I think once we do that, we'll see the change and the difference that we want.

- You have worked with Attorney Benjamin Crump, who is representing Tyre Nichols' family, who's also representing I believe at least one other family that is involved in this.

And the lawsuit has been filed by the Nichols family.

So tell me how this works if you're elected mayor and that lawsuit is still pending.

- Well, we will have to settle the lawsuit if possible, and we would treat that lawsuit like we would treat any number of cases which come before city government.

I think it helps that I'm there.

I know the other side.

I feel the pain of Ms. RowVaughn Wells.

I have a pretty good sense of perhaps what a good settlement should look like because I've handled these multimillion dollar cases before in my 20 years of practice.

So I think it's helpful to have someone who's been on the other side now sitting as mayor to make a fair and equitable determination and to assist in a good resolution to this case.

It needs to be resolved.

No mother should endure what Ms. Wells endured.

The city has to pay.

We have to make it right, and we will make it right if I'm elected mayor.

And that's something that I feel comfortable doing.

- The city's position now has been that these were rogue officers, that this incident does not reflect on the policies and practices of the Memphis Police Department.

What about that?

- Yeah, I'm sure they filed the motions.

And obviously, that's what you do in litigation, but I think that there's something amiss.

The Department of Justice is in looking at pattern and practice.

And so to some extent, has this been an issue before?

I think there's another lawsuit dealing with this unit, and this incident occurred before Tyre Nichols.

And so it may not have been the training, but if it was the practice or procedure of this unit and of others involved with the Memphis Police Department, then it's an issue.

And I feel like I'm negotiating against myself if I'm selected as mayor, but the facts are what they are.

We need to clean this up.

We need to improve it.

We need to make it better.

We need to make sure it doesn't happen again.

And I'm committed to doing so.

- Just to clarify one thing, and when we did your intro, you are an attorney.

I know that, not everyone does.

You are not an attorney for Tyre Nichols or the Nichols family, just to clarify that.

- Right.

- Being on the other side of it.

- Correct.

- That's more your former role is head of local NAACP.

- Right, that's correct.

- And a family advisor, not a lawyer.

- Right, right.

- Okay, 'cause you wouldn't be able to be on both sides.

- No, no sir.

- If you were a lawyer to the Nichols family, you would have to recuse or kind of step aside, okay.

- Yeah, yeah, it would be a conflict.

- Okay, just to clarify, thank you.

Stay with guns, guns, ha, stay with crime for a bit.

Two things that there is immense frustration about that we hear about it, it showed up in a big city and countywide poll we did about attitudes around crime.

It comes up in conversations at this table and has for years now is guns.

As Memphis mayor, there is not a lot, I mean, gun laws are generally federal or they are state.

And in a very, I mean, the governor has set the date for a special session around guns.

It's a very limited agenda.

I think there are, for most people, very limited expectations of what might come out of that.

City Council, meanwhile, is trying to put forward a referendum where they would ban I think, what, assault weapons, and certain types of gun in the city of Memphis.

Likely to go to court.

It seems most observers will say likely to lose, but it's at least a symbolic act.

What really can the city mayor do about guns, assault weapons, semi-automatic weapons, and just the wide availability of guns.

- Right, I mean, the mayor has the bully pulpit, and you're exactly right.

This is state law, and the only way you can usurp state law is by federal law.

And so the litigation is good.

I would expect that it will go to federal court.

And even if the city loses, you build what we call a record.

And why is that important?

The struggle for the Voting Rights Act of '65, the Civil Rights Act of '64 didn't start in '64, '65.

It started in the '50s, during the Montgomery Bus Boycott, during the decision involving Brown vs. Board of Education.

So we can't look at the here and now, but we have to build a record.

We have to keep agitating.

We have to keep fighting.

We have to make sure that we are using all that we can to create the change that we want.

And I am confident.

I am positive that we will get that change that we need.

We actually are restoring the ban against assault weapons.

We've had it before, and it was lifted.

And so we just have to keep agitating.

We have to keep moving in that direction.

And I'm confident that it will happen again.

But we have to use the courts, and we take that record to Congress.

That's why it's important.

We take that record to Congress and we fight, and we argue, and we agitate, and we march, and we keep pushing on this issue until change occurs.

And I think that, that's something that will happen.

- Another area that there tends to be a lot of frustration about, a lot of discussion and disagreement about is the rules around the release of people picked up and accused of crimes, whether that's going through judicial commissioners, the judges, the DA's office.

Current Mayor Strickland has had a pretty public feud at this point with relatively new DA Steve Mulroy, feeling like it's, quote, a revolving door at 201 Poplar, the jail.

Again, the mayor doesn't, in many ways, doesn't have much authority over how that works.

That's the DA's purview and the judges and state law.

What, as mayor, would you, what is your, I guess, what is your take on that notion that too many criminals or accused criminals or repeat offenders are released too soon?

- Yeah, well, similar to what was done during the pandemic, we have to work together and not point fingers to tackle this issue.

So day one, if I'm sworn in as mayor on January 1, my next meeting, January 2, January 3, would be with District Attorney Mulroy.

It would be with Juvenile Court Judge Tarik Sugarmon.

It would be with the chief of the criminal judiciary.

And we will have to come together and be on the same page as it relates to how we are going to move forward with addressing crime.

Our officers or the police officers will pick these individuals up, and we need to make sure that we are all on the same page as to what happens after that.

- What does that page look like?

- Right, so that page looks like if we are going to release an individual who may be violent, may be in danger of recidivism, going back into the system, we need to have a program in place to watch that individual to safeguard the community, and be sure we're reaching out to the parents or caregivers of that individual so we can hold them accountable for what's going on with the person that's in their home.

So we just can't leave it at releasing this person back out.

So how can the mayor help?

How can the city help?

We need to assist the court system with monitoring these individuals.

And I forgot, we need to bring in the superintendent of schools.

'Cause many of these young people should be in school.

Are these young people in school?

Are they truant?

If they're truant and not in school, we need to work to get them into an educational program.

So we need to extend our community centers and offer the wraparound services that these young people may need.

So I think those are the things that the mayor can do.

- With apologies to Bill, I mean, that's a whole lot more money that would be spent by the city to do?

I mean, 'cause a lot of people sit at this table, and I take them at their word, and they talk about those kinds of things.

It hasn't happened.

I think everyone agrees there's some pilot programs and so on.

One problem, it's money.

So are you committing that the city of Memphis would commit to more community center, more monitoring, more of the kinds of things you're talking about?

'Cause somebody's gotta pay for it?

- Well, I mean we have to.

I think a recent post suggested that people are willing to pay more to resolve crime in this community.

And I think that's what we potentially have to look at.

Now, do we go right to a tax rate increase?

No.

But we do need to look at private-public partnerships.

We need to look at what federal grants we can receive.

And I think we look at, we exhaust every other mechanism that we can exhaust before adjusting the tax rate in order to get the resources we need in to improve upon our crime remediation.

We have to do it.

- All right, let me bring in Bill.

- Every mayor under the mayor-council form of government has chosen a new police director, either when they took office or at some point during the first year in their tenure since the police director's position has been there.

First of all, have you made any decision at this point just being a candidate about whether Chief Davis stays or goes?

And second of all, in the timing of naming a new police director or police chief, do you wait for the Department of Justice to complete what it's doing or can you, seeing as how that's gonna take a few years?

- Yeah, I would hope that the Department of Justice would understand the need to move pretty quickly on this issue.

I'm not committed to keeping the chief.

I'm not committed to letting, you know, letting her go.

I think that we have to have a transition team.

We have to look at where the DOJ is at that time, and then we have to make a call.

I believe that we need to do something, and does that mean reform from the top-down?

Meaning, we need a new chief?

We'll see.

Does it mean reforming from the bottom-up?

You know, are we needing to address what's going on in the training academy?

We'll have to see.

But I think it would be premature and almost malpractice for me to say, "Hey, I might get a lot of points "by bringing out the pitchforks and the stakes "and saying we're going after Chief Davis.

She's what's wrong."

Obviously, there's a systemic problem.

There was crime and there were issues before Chief Davis got there.

Was she in a place or was she in a posture of reforming the issues or was she just there to go along to get along?

The Department of Justice report would bear that out.

And I think we have to be thoughtful.

I mean, to some folks, I gain a lot of points by saying, "Hey, we're gonna take the chief out day one."

To other folks, I gain a lot of points with saying, "Hey, she's the first black woman chief.

"We're gonna let her stay and respect that fact and let her have time to work her plan."

I think the answer is let's get the DOJ report.

Let's look at the transition team, see what it says, and then we make a thoughtful call on that issue.

We don't try to gain political points one way or the other.

We do what's best for the police force and what's best for the citizens of Memphis.

- There has been a whole lot of discussion lately and ironically after there was the deadline to withdraw from the ballot if a candidate in the mayor's race or the Council race chose to do so.

But it goes something like this, there's too many people in the race for mayor, and that raises the possibility that someone could be elected with less than a majority of the vote.

Are there too many people in the race and can you win?

Can someone win with a majority of the votes with 17 people in that race?

- No, I don't think the winner on October 5 wins with the majority of the vote.

There's no runoff, there's no primary, so that it's winner take all that night.

This is America.

And so I would be undemocratic to say to any individual in a democracy, "You shouldn't run" or, "You can't run."

Would I have wanted fewer candidates?

Yes.

Is that what we're dealing with?

No.

The deadline has passed, and so the field is set, and we have to work the field and play with the cards that we've been dealt.

I think I'm the best candidate.

I think I stand on my record.

I have a proven track record of getting the tough jobs done.

I'll continue to get those tough jobs done if elected as the next mayor.

And obviously, we'll submit our case to the voters of Memphis.

And hopefully, they'll come back and say that Van Turner should be the next mayor.

- With just three minutes left, I'm gonna run through a bunch of stuff that we could do an entire show on.

So with apologies, I'm gonna kinda try to move through some things.

One of those that we talked about all the people in the ballot, there was a lawsuit around residency.

There were questions around your residency, Floyd Bonner, some questions around former Mayor Herenton.

That was resolved.

You were cleared to run for mayor.

But I hear it.

You must hear it from some people.

They're frustrated you weren't living in Memphis, and now you wanna be the mayor of Memphis.

Is that a fair frustration?

- No, I don't think so.

Obviously, when they hear what happened, I moved into the unincorporated county right outside of Memphis, less than a hundred feet.

We were supposed to be annexed, but the state stopped annexation.

My intent was to always be in Memphis, and that never occurred.

- Again, we can talk more on all these issues.

- Right, right, I get it.

- A lot of focus on MLGW for all kinds of reasons, the many storms, power outages.

Do you support the head of MLGW eight months, nine months into the job, Doug McGowen?

- I know Doug personally.

We need to give him a chance to work his plan out.

I just saw a recent press conference, he has a plan.

Let's see if the plan works.

If not, we'll look at making adjustments.

- You were, I could be wrong on this, Franklin Haney made a bid to replace, in the whole argument and process of looking whether MLGW should move away from TVA as the primary provider of power.

You worked, I believe, with one of the bidders or Franklin Haney who put forward a proposal.

Does that cause any conflict given that MLGW is owned by the city of Memphis?

And the question about TVA and the future contracts is still a live issue.

How would you handle that?

- No, no, I don't think it causes any issue.

I was an attorney for Mr. Haney, and I was helping to paper the deal.

I think now as many citizens are realizing, we need more monies towards our infrastructure and making sure that we are not dealing with all of these power outages.

And part of the plan that I was assisting Mr. Haney on as an attorney dealt with that issue in diversifying our power supply from TVA.

- Should that process to look at alternatives to TVA be reopened in the next, if you were mayor?

- I think it's still on the table.

- Okay.

- Yep.

- Talking about infrastructure and spending, roads, a big issue.

If Jim Strickland were here, he would say that's one of the number, after crime probably, paraphrasing, I'm sorry, Mayor Strickland, roads is way up there for him.

It always has been when he was running and as he's been mayor.

What can the city do?

Can it spend more money?

Is that a place where more taxes ought to be raised?

How do the roads get fixed faster?

- Well, we need to dedicate those resources to making sure that we don't have the issues of potholes.

I mean, they're tearing up our cars.

The streets are torn up.

We're not paving our streets.

We have to find a solution, and oftentimes, the solution may not necessarily be raising taxes.

Can we get federal funds in?

Can we adjust our payment in lieu of tax program?

Can we do small adjustments there to bring in more resources to fix our roads?

But we have to do it.

- All right, thank you for the speed round.

I appreciate it 'cause we could spend a lot more time on that.

Thank you, Bill.

Again, this is one of many conversations we're doing with mayoral candidates.

You can go to wkno.org and get those.

Please tune in next Tuesday at 7 PM right here on WKNO.

We're livestreaming on the internet for a mayor debate with Van Turner and six, five, hopefully six other candidates.

Again, that's on Tuesday, August 15th at 7 PM.

Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you next week.

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