[piano intro] I'm mean he's hitting at it pretty good, Mike.

Yeah.

I don't know what the problem is.

Hit it again.

I dare you.

Double dog dare you.

I think I've-- There he is.

I got it, there he goes.

There you go.

There we go.

Good job.

He knocked the pudding out of that.

It took him a while to get into that thing.

Yeah he did.

You might have to go to him.

I got him on some grass.

Let me slip in there, I don't want to get in too close.

I'm tell you what, I'm gonna go right behind you.

You go ahead, I'm gonna see if you can hang with it.

I'll mess the water up.

No, you okay.

Okay?

Yeah, you're fine.

This one is--this one is on some of this grass.

Oh man, look, oh my--Mike!

Yeah, there's beds all in there.

They are everywhere.

Yeah.

He's free.

There we go, come on babydoll.

There you go, good job.

Come on baby doll.

Good job.

See, that's another nice, big one.

That's a good size, that's a good size fish.

And he inhaled it too.

Yes, I mean--I see what you mean by that hump back.

Yeah.

That's pretty.

- [male announcer]: The production of Carolina Outdoor Journal is made possible in part by: - [female announcer]: The North Carolina Wildlife Rescources Commission.

A fishing license goes a long way towards wildlife conservation in North Carolina.

Over 38,000 miles of managed streams and rivers, and 250,000 acres of lakes and reservoirs.

- [male announcer]: And by EZ Bait and Tackle, family owned and operated.

We fish from fresh to saltwater.

We provide fishing supplies and ad vice to every type of angler.

For all your fishing needs, EZ Bait and Tackle.

And by contributions from PBS NC vi ewers like you.

[light instrumental music] ♪ Hello, welcome to the Carolina Outdoor Journal.

Well, today, if you like fishing with a fly rod, you're going to enjoy this one.

Joe Jenkins is out there catching pumpkinseeds.

That's right, at Lake Phelps with Mike Noles, and they just have a great day in the flats, the shallow water area of Lake Phelps, in the grass, wading.

A picture perfect day, and a little cloud cover, which is what Mike wanted, fishing beds of pumpkinseed.

Big pumpkinseed, some of the biggest pumpkinseed, probably in the country, I know for sure here in North Carolina.

Generally, when you think of pumpkinseed, you think of the small, maybe, what, four, five inches that you catch in the river or ponds.

They're found all over the state, but not like this.

In the size that we were catching, I mean a palm-size.

And just, really, a lot of fun on light fly rods.

Both of them were using fairly light fly rods for it.

Um, but just a great backdrop.

Uh, lots of fun.

We'll talk about the fly-rodding at Gear Time because that's a work of art, and I like watching Joe do it.

But Donna's in the kitchen.

Now, she's got a recipe today, a new recipe, for cornbread.

Right, again, we were saying on an earlier show how much she can do with a recipe and wild game fish and everything.

And this is a new cornbread recipe from her today, and pay attention.

All right, work of art with the fly rod and some big pumpkinseeds, today, on the Carolina Outdoor Journal.

Mike, here we are, late, late spring, early summer, and you're going to take me what kind of fishing, now?

We're going to be fishing for pumpkinseed, brim, or sunfish.

Mm-hmm, that's the name of them.

Uh, we're on Lake Phelps this morning.

Got a little bit of an overcast day.

I think it's gonna really help us, though.

We're going to be walking along the edge of this grassline.

We're going to be fishing beds, though.

The fish have been a little bit late in getting started this year because of the weather we'd had during May.

Mm-hm.

Uh, for the past, about the past week, they've really started coming up and hitting the bug real good.

We're--both of us are fishing with ultralights.

Uh, I'm fishing a five weight that's 8 1/2 feet long, and I think you're fishing a five weight-- I'm fishing a five weight, 7 1/2 foot.

So, we should--anything you hook up with's gonna be a lot of fun.

[laughs] So, uh, I think we should do well, we're fishing with popping bugs, all top water bugs, and each of us are fishing, I think, a #8 is what I'm fishing this morning, so-- Well, do you fish right along the edge or just a little bit back?

Are they on the outside here, and they move back in?

How does that-- how does that work?

(Mike Noles) They're mixed a little bit.

We're going to start off fishing along the edges until we find a concentration of fish, and then we can get right up in the grass like this.

Do a little bit of short lining and fish back into the holes where we see 'em on the beds.

(Joe Jenkins) This is pretty much, like, any other, when you're fishing beds of brim and bass, of especially brim, you just find a concentration of 'em.

That's exactly right.

We'll fish along and when they get really consistent, we'll go up and fish the beds.

I'm looking forward to it.

Yeah, me too.

Yes, sir.

Let's get going.

I'm ready.

Aw, she's--this one right here's got a little weight to her.

(Joe) I see it.

Come on in here, That's a nice fish.

That's probably the biggest one caught today.

Yeah, that's a good one there.

That's another big male, looky there.

This is what I was talking about, Joe.

See the brilliance in there?

See, and--right now, we're in an overcast day, so we're not getting a whole lot of light off of him to really show his colors, but that's a typical male that we're catching off these beds like this.

Mm-mm-mm.

And, uh, this is, I don't know, he's a eight-, ten-ounce fish.

Easy.

This lake is putting the myth of a small pumpkinseed to shame.

I mean--[laughs] You're right about that.

A lotta people say, well, pumpkinseeds, that's something that the young 'uns are catching with little bitty brim poles.

But these fish right here will make you get up and go this is what you're fishing for.

Oh, man.

So yeah, he's a pretty thing, I tell you.

That's beautiful.

It is that, I love him.

Can you imagine seeing of them in one of the aquariums?

You know what?

That thing would just show off.

Yeah, it would, with all that light in there.

Yeah.

It's that blue color, it's so pretty, is that aqua?

Yeah.

Nice size.

We had--well, durn!

I'm sitting here trying to home a rod to home.

Mm-hm.

What--you see the beds in there.

Yeah, I suppose-- Now, I just wonder if I got the wrong bug on.

I mean, you're tattooing me right now.

[laughs] I'm not used to being tattooed.

Well, you know, you were talking about where you fish?

Uh-huh.

Well, I'm somewhat prejudiced.

Why is that?

[laughs] I get to ease out the back door every day-- I got him, I got him, I got me one.

Good job.

I got a nice one.

There's a nice one.

I got a nice one.

Come on in here.

Come on in here.

Come on in here.

(Mike) Oh, what a pretty fish.

Oh lord, look at that.

People talk about them things don't get any size to 'em.

No.

Ain't he pretty?

I don't see 'em that big, I see 'em about four ounces.

This is a little bit bigger fish than I'm used to catching, Mike.

The ones I catch are probably half that size in those ponds and all.

Yeah.

That's a pretty fish.

I tell you, my daughter caught one... That is beautiful.

that according to the game log was just one of the larger ones caught last year.

She caught one that weighed 18 ounces.

Out of here?

Uh-huh, yeah.

Oh my goodness.

Maybe we'll be lucky.

I was gonna get him-- I was hoping to get him into the records or something like that, but the same weekend, somebody caught one that weighed close to two pounds over in the middle of the state.

Wow!

I told Hayley she held the honors for a little while, but that's a pretty good representative of the type fish that we're catching in here.

I mean, you'll catch some small fish but... 10-, 12-ounce fish are pretty much a regular in here.

Well, when I heard about it, it's not that I disbelieved it, but you know, you wanna see it.

Yeah.

Because the ponds, as the book'll tell you, they don't get much over four ounces.

But they are--they can be pretty big.

Well, that fish is just-- Oh, man!

That fish you just had was probably a 10-, 12-ounce fish.

Uh-huh.

And they're longer, whereas a bluegill might be a little bit more blunt nose, as you say.

Yeah.

These--well, he hit it again.

Be patient, Joe.

These fish remind me more of a shellcracker.

I was gonna say, because that little tip on that operculum gill.

Yeah.

Uh, they're more akin to a shellcracker than they are a bluegill.

Now, that's a fish right there, or I ain't sitting-- in his waters, and he was there!

[laughs] Come on.

I mean, he's hitting at it pretty good, Mike.

Yeah.

I don't know what the problem is.

Hit it again.

I dare you.

Double dog dare you.

I think I've-- There he is, there you go.

There we go!

Good job.

He knocked the pudding out of that.

It took him a while to get into that thing.

Yeah, he did.

You might have to go to him.

I got him on some grass.

Let me slip in there, I don't want to get in too close.

I tell you what, I'm gonna go right behind you.

You go ahead, I'm gonna see if you can hang with it.

I'll mess the water up.

No, you're okay.

Okay?

Yeah, you're fine.

This one is--this one is on some of this grass.

Oh, man, look, oh my--Mike!

Yeah, there's beds all in there.

They are everywhere!

Yeah.

He's free, there we go.

There we go, come on babydoll.

There you go, good job.

Come on baby doll.

Good job.

See, that's another nice, big one.

That's a good size-- that's a good size fish.

And he inhaled it too.

This discoloration here is reminiscent of a shellcracker.

Very much more like a shellcracker, Yeah, they are.

than a bill--a bluegill.

That's a pretty fish.

I snuck in there while you were out of that hole.

[laughter] That's all right.

Oh, that's bigger th an what I got.

That's a nice fish.

That's a much bigger fi sh than what I had.

The iridescence in 'em when you first bring 'em out of the water.

Uh-huh.

Look at that, I mean, that just, that aqua and the iridescent colors on them is what made this one my little favorite fish.

Now, is it true that li ke in the sunfish, the female is th e yellow breast, and the male is-- or is that--?

Yeah, this is a male, the male is a much more colored-up fish.

This is a male fish here.

So, that female is go nna be a bright yellow.

Yeah, she's gonna be bright yell--well actually, she won't have the pattern down here in her belly like this.

She'll have more yellow across here, and she won't have the real bright colors up in here like that.

But he's a-- Let me borrow that-- Borrow your-- Yes.

Let me borrow my tool back.

[laughter] Oh, man.

I tell you, they're being extremely aggressive on these things this morning.

Yes, they are.

[tranquil music] ♪ ♪ Mike, where in the world you leading me?

I mean, if I were to get lost, I'd never find my way outta-- Where you taking me?

Well, I'm taking you back in here into one my little secret jungles that people don't know about on this lake.

We, uh--look at these great big beds.

I mean, look at that fish.

We're just walking by 'em.

That fish is a pound.

Yeah, he's a big 'un.

We'll talk to him when we come back out.

Let's slip on through these trees back in here in this backwater, and see how pretty this opens up?

Yes, it is.

I'm surprised you didn't blindfold me.

Well.

[laughs] I'm uh-ride you around the lake three or four different directions when we leave so you can't find it.

I won't know where I been.

[laughter] This is absolutely beautiful.

Is this not gorgeous?

It is.

I ain't kidding you.

This right here is what makes fishing like we do is-- You can ease in here wading.

You don't have the noise of the boat.

You just slip along, you can actually see the fish and see the beds, and you go up and start catching them.

No way.

(Mike) There he is!

That's pretty good size pumpkinseed.

Yes.

Now look, is it unusual, I know like in regular brim beds, but do you catch--all the time, you catch this many in these beds like this?

Uh, yeah, when you find a bed like this, you can usually stand in one spot, just like we doing, and catch them.

Now, here's your 12-ounce fish.

Oh my goodness.

Looky there.

Now that one, that one--oh, man.

Ain't that something?

And pumpkinseed don't get that big.

No, they don't get that big.

Nah!

But, yeah, you can get in here when you find these beds like this and pretty well stand still and catch 'em till you get tired.

And ain't that thing pretty?

Th-th-that is huge.

Yeah, that's a big fish.

This is a 12-ounce, but look at the way that rascal starting to hump.

Yeah!

That's an old brim.

An old pumpkinseed.

Yeah, but I tell you, it's not something unusual in this lake at all.

Like I said, this fish like this is not an unusual fish to catch.

As a matter of fact, catching the four-ounce fish is more unusual than catching these 10-, 12-ounce fish.

I can't wait to bring the guys I fish with out to your place just to let them see this, they won't believe-- They will not believe how big that fish is.

Well, I tell you, like I said, this is-- we're fortunate everything has worked just right, but these little old backwater beds like this, when you can get in on 'em, these big fish and everything-- You know, we were talking, we saw-- we actually saw the fish's fin come out of the water coming to the bugs.

Mm-hm.

You're hand is the size of mine, easy, Yeah.

and that fish fills the hand up.

He's a nice fish.

Yes he is.

It sure is.

Uh, you wouldn't happen to have another one of those yellow bugs there would you?

Well, for a price.

[laughter] Wait a minute now, I think I might, let me check my-- Let me check my arsenal over here.

(Joe) My friend, do you have an extra there?

Yeah, but you been poking fun at my tackle box, now.

No, no, you should see mine.

[laughs] Okay.

Where do you keep that thing?

I keep it on my--I'll show you in just a minute.

There's the bug now.

All right.

Now I just did something for you I rarely do.

What is that?

Give me a fishing lure?

Yeah, uh-huh, I don't normally do that.

I had another fishing partner one time that stood me down about how a bug would-- and before the day was over, we kind of, sort of, almost had an auction out here in the middle of the lake over what a bug's bait was.

Well, let me give you something.

What?

That nips your line and ties-- You ever had one of those?

Yeah--no, not like that, I haven't.

Put that in your pocket, you got a pocket to put it in?

Thank you, I will.

If not, I'll keep it for you.

Keep it for me.

All right.

I'll show you--this is where my storage cabinet is.

[laughs] Nice tackle box.

Thank you.

Well, like I said, warm and dry, that's what--[laughs] That's sort of like little boy's fishin' and the guy says, "What'd you catch--?"

And he says, "Mm."

He said, "What?"

He said, "Hmm."

He said, "Warming?"

"Mm-hm."

He said, "How do you keep 'em warm?"

He said, "[spits] You've got to keep 'em warm, buddy."

[laughs] Whoo, no, thank you.

I ain't taking my hat-- Boy, look at the size of this one.

I don't know, taking my hat off again-- That's a big fish there too now, wow.

Looky there.

That is a big one.

Oh, my goodness.

And once again, you're getting that hump look right there.

Yup.

You catching all those out of that little hole?

That one little hole right there.

Go ahead on in there.

No, I would not do that.

I'll let you do it.

Where'd you say it was?

[laughter] Where'd you say it was?

There's something just bumped by leg.

I think it was that fish I turned loose.

It that was it was?

[laughs] That's what it-- [laughs] Not only are we insulting him by catching him, we in his way, he's running into us.

Right in there is where you caught it?

Yeah, come on 'round here.

I'm fine, I'm fine.

I'm fine, I'll go over here and catch this one you been missing.

[laughs] Just net him, just net him, and you probably will.

He's at it, he's at it.

Come on.

A little bit of ripple on the water.

It might--it just didn't come up and hit it hard.

It came up and hit it, just kind of easy.

It's not as big as what you caught.

Ain't he pretty?

But, but, looky here.

Look at that.

Isn't that pretty?

Those colors are absolutely--uh-oh.

Unbelievable.

Look at that.

Look at that, that is beautiful.

That is pretty.

Go ahead, little fella, thank you!

(Mike) This is real shallow water back in here.

(Joe) That's a bigger fish.

Yeah, he's a good fish.

(Joe) My goodness, see that fish, that'll weigh a pound!

I changed colors on you again, too.

I knew you did something already.

Look at that, ain't he-- That's a nice fish.

That fish'll weigh-- That fish'll weigh a pound.

That's the biggest one-- I keep saying it, but I do believe that's the biggest one you caught today.

Yeah, that's a big fish.

Come on, babydoll, hit it again.

Now, that one just--not hit it, just rolled at it, Pah!

Like, get outta here.

Come on.

There he is.

Confound it!

[laughs] Now, why the--?

Hmm.

You gotta start talking out of the side of mouth.

(Mike) Kind of like this.

[muffled] If that what it takes.

That's another--look at the color, now look-- (Joe) I see it.

Can you see the color on him in the water?

Yes.

See how iridescent he is?

(Joe) Starts changing color when you get him out.

(Mike) Yup.

(Joe) Look partner, I have no problem-- I told somebody, if I knew I could shoot 65 every time I teed it up, I'd wear a pink glove, pink shirts, and a tutu.

Would not make any difference to me.

Does that mean you want one of my little orange bugs?

Uh--[coughs] [laughter] I about run out of leader.

Oh, me!

Now, you going to make me go to my tackle box again, are you?

I just had one hit at the end of the fly line.

Joe, I don't know who's more colorful, the pumpkinseed fish or Joe Jenkins.

Uh, probably a tie.

I mean, yeah that pumpkinseed's a mighty, a mighty-- It's almost an aquarium fish if you noticed the colors in 'em.

And, of course, Joe's colorful.

He loves to fish, he loves to fly-fish, and that's why he has that nickname of Fly Rod Joe.

'Cause he's good with it, he can catch fish, and Mike, likewise.

Mike lives on the lake, and really targets largemouth bass.

But, he loves that pumpkinseed, and you can see why.

They had a good time.

Let's talk about the tackle, let's go to Gear Time.

[tranquil music] ♪ ♪ Well, Joe, we've had a pretty good day, fishing here on Lake Phelps for pumpkinseed.

Each of us are fishing with ultralight fly rods.

Both of us fishing with five weights.

I'm fishing with an 8 1/2 and you're fishing with a-- 7 1/2.

We had a whole lot of action when we started the day off.

We had--we started off with a little bit larger bugs, this morning, and then as it got more overcast and the day slowed down, we kind of tapered down to these smaller bugs.

I think the key was, as you said, progressively drop it down to find what they wanted.

And as they changed, we changed too.

Yeah.

Changed colors two or three times.

(Joe) Changed colors.

Yeah, you did.

[laughter] We tried some sinking baits too.

You did.

Nah, didn't have much success on those.

But, I think they would work in here, I really do.

Oh, they do work well in here.

Again, I've had better luck in the afternoons for some reason, with the sinking bait.

It may be a light situation for 'em.

Could be.

But, like I said, we've gone from a #6 popping-type bug, and then went to a slider-type fly, #8s and #10s, that worked well for us, we caught a lot of fish.

And then, changing colors back and forth between a bright bug, and then going to a squirrel hair, orange-type bug did well.

And I noticed that you didn't use as many of those with the scoop face.

You were saying something earlier today about when the fish are aggressive, you don't really need to go to that.

But, when they're a little reluctant to hit you, you use that scoop face to make that sound, like they're feeding and drawing 'em in to it.

And today, we didn't use that many of 'em.

This little particular bug right here is dynamite, and the one next to it really are good.

Yeah.

Both of them are part of my tackle box, you know.

[laughter] I like that tackle box, are they expensive tackle boxes?

I tell you, no, they're not very expensive, and they come ten to a box.

Well, you see what I have.

I have this one, I think it's about a dollar, and I've got it full of bugs and stuff.

I have really had a great time.

I hope you'll invite me back.

Oh, without a doubt, it's been my pleasure.

I've heard about Fly Rod Joe, and-- Here he is.

I had the experience.

That is great.

Thank you very much.

Thanks a lot.

We had a good time.

I enjoyed it.

Thank you.

Thank you, come back.

Thanks, guys, for that information.

Good stuff about fishing with a fly rod.

Now Donna, she's got a really interesting recipe for you today.

It adds a twist to cornbread.

[tranquil music] ♪ ♪ Hi, today in the kitchen, we're going to be making a honey sunflower cornbread.

It's a great recipe, and you'll taste just a little bit of crunch, and you'll have a little bit of sweet.

And it is a great, great taste, so let's get started.

We're going to add two packages of buttermilk cornbread mix to our bowl.

So, we're going to start out pretty simple here.

And then, I'm going to add about a 1/4-- no, about 1/2 cup of brown sugar, light brown sugar.

And 1/2 cup of raw sunflower seeds, unsalted.

You don't want any salt on these.

And usually you can find them in the grocery store next to the salted and roasted sunflower seeds.

We're going to toss all this all together, so we can mix all of our dry ingredients.

So, we'll have our sesame seeds will be throughout your cornbread instead of on the bottom or on the top.

And then, we're going to add 1 cup of half and half or milk.

I like to use half and half.

It adds just a little bit more richness.

Two eggs.

1/4 cup of vegetable oil.

And a 1/4 cup of honey.

We're going to mix all of that together.

You might want to save a little bit for the top to mix with yours.

So, we're just mix all that together until it's combined.

You don't want to overmix, 'cause then you'll have peaks and valleys and tunnels.

So, we're just gonna mix that--incorporate it together.

Then, we're going to place this in a 8x8 square baking dish.

Or you can use a pie plate.

A lot of times, I make my cornbread in a pie plate.

I would use a deep dish pie plate, and then you could cut it into wedges if you like.

So, once that's mixed together, we're going to bring our baking dish, and I've coated this just with some nonstick spray.

Then we're going to pour out our mixture...into our pan.

Make sure you get it all 'cause it's really good.

And then spread it out, and then what I like to do is top mine with just a few more of the sunflower seeds.

I think it adds a little bit niceness.

And like, um-- This is a great side item for a chowder or for a salad.

Also, you can cut it into bigger squares and slice in half or in the middle, open it up, and use it for sandwich bread, too, it would be great.

We're going to bake this at 350 degrees for about 30 minutes just until it is set in the middle.

Bring it out, let it cool.

Or you can serve it hot, which would be great as well.

With some butter and some honey.

So, here's what it looks like when it comes out.

You can see it's got a nice and golden brown crust on the top and on the bottom as well.

You can see the sunflower seeds are throughout the cornbread.

It is fabulous.

I hope you enjoy the honey and sunflower cornbread, and I look forward to seeing you next time on Simple Cooking.

Thanks, Donna, for that recipe.

Honey sunflower cornbread.

That's one that we are going to have to try.

Joe, let's run back down to Lake Phelps.

The fellas had a good day of fishing.

They really did.

We got real lucky with the weather.

We had had some cool weather this spring, I mean, right through May.

And anybody that fishes knows it was a late spring starting with the shad, including the striper season on the Roanoke.

The fish didn't get on the beds.

Generally, they're on the beds by late May on the full moon, they were not there, so it was early June when we did this.

And Mike had scouted, found three good beds of pumpkinseed, and it's really a lot of fun when you can wade and sight-cast to them, throw those little popping bugs and light, light fly rods.

And of course, Joe and Mike love that fly-rodding, and they know how to use 'em.

They certainly do.

For Joe Albea, I'm John Moore.

Thanks for joining us today on the Carolina Outdoor Journal.

- [male announcer]: And make sure to visit our website for more information.

- [male announcer]: The production of Carolina Outdoor Journal is made possible in part by: - [female announcer]: The North Carolina Wildlife Rescources Commission.

A fishing license goes a long way towards wildlife conservation in North Carolina.

Over 38,000 miles of managed streams and rivers, and 250,000 acres of lakes and reservoirs.

- [male announcer]: And by EZ Bait and Tackle, family owned and operated.

We fish from fresh to saltwater.

We provide fishing supplies and ad vice to every type of angler.

For all your fishing needs, EZ Bait and Tackle.

And by contributions from PBS NC vi ewers like you.

[light instrumental music] ♪