♪ [Music playing] ♪ >> Hello, my name is Kwame Spearman.

I am the CEO and co-owner of Tattered Covers Bookstores.

This year, Tattered Cover decided to partner with PBS 12 for our Leaders as Readers program.

In short, we believe that everyone should love reading so does PBS 12, so we decided to partner with some of our leaders in the community to talk about the effect on their own personal lives and their own success.

Today we have a very special guest, Secretary of State candidate, Pam Anderson.

Pam, it's great to have you on.

>> I am so excited to be here, thank you.

>> Wonderful, Pam tell us a little bit about yourself, and let the viewers get to know you.

>> Great, well I am Pam Anderson I am a candidate for Secretary of State and I am a professional leader and elections administrator, I was the nonpartisan elected municipal clerk in Wheatridge and I went on to serve two terms as a Jefferson county clerk and recorder.

We have term limits in Jefferson County so after that I decided I love the leadership and I love working elections.

I was the executive director for the County Clerk Association, advocating training and educating on the work that they do.

Married to Jay for 28 years, we raised a couple of great kids, Silas and Kai.

I am an avid reader.

I am a Jefferson County Library trustee.

So literacy and civic discourse is where I invest a lot of my philanthropy.

>> Awesome, so for the viewers, just to give a little background on what the Leaders as Readers program is, is we invite people like Pam and they get to select one book and that book has hopefully influenced them and the trajectory throughout life.

So your book, please tell us.

>> Yes it is Marcus Aurelius Meditations.

>> Which is amazing, because whenever we get to talk about philosophy, there's so much to discuss and for our viewers, talk a little bit about what the book is, and why it's so important to you.

>> Well I got a history degree and I thought once upon a time I was going to be a classics professor, that is ancient Greek and Roman history.

I had the great seventh grade teacher Lloyd Donnelly that got my passion for history ignited, very young.

I read a little bit of Meditations then and then again in college where I sort of focused on ancient history.

But what I found was I kept going back to Marcus Aurelius and his thoughts as a Roman empire, the most powerful person in the world, and his philosophy of stoicism, of introspection and leadership.

And accountability and all of those things have sort of played a role in both my professional path, but really personal development as well.

>> So give us some context, you talked a little bit about him, but when was he writing this and to Meditations it is 12 individual books per se, but historians assess that he was not intending to write this, give us some context and talk a little bit about what were the key takeaways?

>> So it's a bit of a stream of consciousness, he was an avid writer and scholar and again self introspection, he served as Emperor of the Roman Empire.

>> Most powerful man at the time, it was not a democracy and so he was placed in the amazing position of power and over his regime, he wrote his thoughts introspection, his values, that philosophy and it was of bit of stream of consciousness when you read there some disconnections.

>> He was a stoic.

>> He was a stoic and this is about virtue being about introspection and about the good that you do, not just your words and presenting that in a calm manner.

He wrote about everything, and there were things that I took away around leadership and around accountability, and really about the universality of humanity, his empire at the time was an empire of war.

And so I always found it really interesting that he continued to look inward.

>> It's a real interesting take away, so for example I read this book in college as well and then had to refresh my memory on it, but he's leading he's an Emperor and engaged in war, yet he's got some may be counterintuitive thoughts on right versus wrong and when someone does something wrong to you, can you go a little deeper there?

>> Yes so you know, it is about the right and wrong is what you do, less than what other people do.

And I find that resonating at a time where we are super polarized.

We are a very polarized society, and what that responsibility and accountability is for you and what you present to the world, has been something that like I was raised Southern Baptist.

I went to a Lutheran University and I kept going back to these more simple tenants of do you onto others as you would do unto yourself and putting those things out in the world that define you as your actions.

Less as a reaction.

And so in this time of politics and polarization and my professional life, it's really been a touchdown for me.

>> So we always love to discuss how particular books change trajectories.

So let's go a little bit deeper there, so you said the first time you read it was in middle school.

And then really went deep in college so talk a little bit about how that book affected you and how it put you on the trajectory for you where you are today.

>> Yes, in college, I was studying history and it led me to serve on the policy side.

I really was drawn to ancient Greek and Roman and the ideas of democracy.

And how even during an empire, that representation was building over time, Marcus Aurelius kept pointing to wanting to empower the Senate, wanting to empower the people.

And that led to more policy-setting.

I never thought I would run for office, municipal clerk or anything, so I decided to go into the classics but found that there was not as much practical application for those ideals that I really love.

So I got a Masters in Public Administration instead and love the policy side and then something got my attention around the petition that was circulating in my town and it turns out that they were circulating this access to democracy in a fraudulent way and then they were running the clerk to run for that seat and then it really violated my sense of free and fair access and I think all of these things, this book represents for me, the building blocks for a universal access and support for those ideals as Americans that I think we represent.

>> And it's interesting because I always contrast this book with Mark Aurelius, the Prince which, you know, doesn't take as kind and loving an approach but in Meditations, you'd see this world where it's really just pushing us to think rationally right?

He's one of those philosophies that makes it very clear that the difference between people and animals is our ability to have rational thought and rational actions, and to impose that even in wartime, how does that play today in your mind, do you think we are experiencing that and if not, you know, where are there gaps?

>> I think it's something we can learn right now, in our politics and Marcus Aurelius talked about keeping an open mind and being open to arguments that you do not agree to.

And that plays to the civic discourse and how changing your mind revolving your position, with facts with evidence could not be more important right now, in my line of work, and democracy at a time where there's so much disinformation and polarizing politics that are infecting our ideals of democracy, that's where I go back to you know, we should not vilify someone who disagrees with us or maybe even questions how democracy is working right now, instead invite them and use facts and evidence, keep an open mind, I have become a better election official because I have listened to people concerned on both sides of the aisle about the integrity of our elections and about access for elections.

And Marcus Aurelius really represented that.

>> That's so interesting.

And so you got the key book but talk a little more broadly about the role of literature.

Right now you're on the campaign and it's got to be grueling hours.

Do you still find books central to your identity in helping you get through this time?

>> I do, I have to admit that I probably read less erudite material when I'm trying to you know get to sleep at night, I'm from a law enforcement family, my dad was retired and both sisters are in law enforcement and their husbands and so I did not become a cop, my dad said I was his only obedient child but I am drawn to thrillers and ministries and true crime, sometimes I feel it's funny you mention the Prince because sometimes being on the campaign, your reading is a reflection of your psyche and so I did read the Prince, during one of my want campaigns, not this one, I did but the Art of War and because it was just sort of reflective.

>> You have to go deeper there.

>> Well I did not enjoy it as much as I enjoyed Meditations and I didn't really reflect my worldview to the same degree, but it is you know we are in a race to the finish to election day and it is also emblematic of the polarization of our times, and I think you know I prefer broad-based reading and I actually am very pleased that you enjoy my choice, I was worried that it would be a little too nerdy and so I was completely prepared with a universal message of my kids favorite children's book.

>> And that would be what?

>> Everyone Poops.

>> Everyone does.

>> And so that's one of our favorite books and also a message of universality.

>> What was interesting for everyone is Pam's second book was a little nerdy.

>> It's super ready, the Checklist Manifesto.

>> Which I had not read the book, I was googling it to see if we had it here and understand the content of it and it is as it is described in the title, about efficiency and efficacy of checklist essentially.

>> Yeah and you know, elections are essentially a big accounting project and it's really a fascinating mix of human nature and technology and how those intercept as a project, and so election geeks listening right now understand that the checklist is like a key factor in the success of taking complicated processes and making them accessible and available to voters and election judges that may only serve for a few days.

And get trained for it.

So it is very it is a very powerful tool.

>> Awesome, if you emerge victorious, what is the first book you are going to read?

>> That is a great question, well unfortunately again, the psyche thing, I'm listening to the stand again on audiobook as I drive all over the state, that's probably I'm going to move away from that and hopefully take a minute and find an ocean somewhere I grew up near the ocean and it restorative me.

And find something that again allows me to be reflective but maybe a little bit fun.

>> You've been reading and books have probably been pretty vital to you this year, it's been a very interesting election season, you had a primary challenger who had a lot of nationwide attention for her thoughts on the 2020 election and now you're in a very competitive general race.

>> Robust is what I call it.

>> And like I said before, it's caught the attention of the national media and so you are now one of the cover participants of Time magazine which is an amazing accomplishment, talk to me a little bit about your journey, you mentioned a lot Meditations is a great example of a pragmatic rational book, some would argue that this has not been what you have faced so far in the campaign, can you talk a little bit about your journey starting with the primary?

>> Yes, so one of the big reasons I ran and all of my opponents reflect this, to some degree or another, is that I believe this is a professional job.

I believe that democracy is not a partisan endeavor.

I don't think polarizing election management on a partisan basis is healthy for democracy and I started seeing a disturbing trend over my career but particularly over the last few years of taking this work, people that stand up like I do Republicans, Democrats, and unaffiliated, to provide democratic access.

And I felt like we need someone to bring that pragmatism and that professionalism back to the conversation and I did have a very robust primary, and in bringing facts and evidence based elections to the discussion, and it is surreal to be on the cover of Time magazine as a defender of democracy, I have to admit I sent it to my kids.

And my parents so that is a big deal for me personally, but it is a bigger deal for me that on the cover I share it with bipartisan election officials, the Democratic secretary of Michigan and the Republican secretary of Georgia because we believe we are in this moment in time that we must stand up for those ideals like Marcus Aurelius that are human and frankly are American.

Fair and equitable and easy secure elections.

>> And so for those who have not yet read the article, what specifically is it discussing?

>> So it's really profiles of some of us that have stood up even you know against some in our own party that said it's easy to stand up when everybody is saying the same thing in your own interest group, it's a little bit more challenging to stand up and say look we need to step back and we need to have this discussion and remain above the fray.

This work should remain above the fray for the people.

And that was my experience during the primary.

I had 2 opponents that had very different visions and views, and in general I don't think that this is a role for a politician seeking higher office or to raise millions of dollars.

I think this is a professional position for people and it is public service and I think people are ready to take it down a notch.

In the rhetoric.

>> I'm so curious.

So you are correct a lot has happened since 2016, how are you communicating that vision to residents in Colorado?

>> Yes, so going back to Marcus in a very calm and stoic manner, I think it's important to stand in these rooms and answer the questions from people of good conscience that have doubts.

We have seen polls that 75% of people have been influenced by myths and disinformation and I don't think that as Marcus said, if once you make someone the enemy, it's very hard to have a dialogue.

And my approach has always been because voting integrity is not a new thing, I've been doing this long enough, Bush v. Gore and most of the questions have come from the Democratic side of the aisle in my career.

I have had a lot of success in standing up with credibility saying look this is not about the left or the right, or outcome but it's process let me tell you what that process is and can I hear your feelings around how it can get better for you.

>> It's interesting, do you believe in some ways that the Secretary of State role should be a nonpartisan role?

>> That's a great question.

I served as an elected nonpartisan city clerk so I've been on both sides from a partisan elected office, and I feel strongly that it should be elected, that responsiveness because there are models in our country where it's appointed by the governor and that does not eliminate the partisan politics from an appointed, I do think being responsive to citizens is important.

I am more and more open to discussion about whether or not in Colorado they should be a nonpartisan elected position.

You know, coroner, why is that a partisan elected office at the local level?

Secretary of State, the state treasurer, I think we should have a discussion on whether or not these becoming offices sought out by people more interested in the partisan politics rather than service to Colorado, in a professional way has been damaging.

>> And talk to me about Colorado's election integrity, I grew up here and I always felt incredibly proud when I was not living in the state for how Colorado handled elections I felt like we were early from a mail in perspective and voting has always been easy you do not hear stories of long lines and hours are efficient, it feels like we are a few steps ahead of the curve and at the same time we have not had the critiques on election integrity do you agree with that and how we continue without moving forward?

>> I'm extremely proud of the system we have here in Colorado over the last 20 years.

I played a significant role in developing that system as a county clerk, supporting both access points and I was president of the Colorado clerk Association in 2013.

When our signature legislation reform, that said we are going to mail everyone a ballot and you retain the choice to have vote centers and same-day registration and overseas military and access point disability voting and so also having transparency and bipartisan public boards that can validate the outcomes with a paper ballot.

I received an award on the audits we developed here in Colorado, that give confidence to the public and these are all things we have evolved over the years and I've done work nationally in educating and advocating for some of these things.

I never think our work is done, like any good professional.

There will be new technology and new access points, there will be new threats to our democracy, and I think having someone with that experience and professional background can serve both as a leader and a credible spokesperson for our system, and I am super proud of it.

And also, we will continue to strive for entrepreneurial excellence.

>> And are there specific things that we can be doing to make people feel more confident in the elections process?

>> The first thing we need to do is take the partisan polarizing politics out of it.

I think.

>> Meditations.

>> One of my first initiatives if you go to my website is I think we need to institute a professional code of ethics.

I have one and I think we should legislate things like you should not spend tax-payer money for commercials when there are security and access issues to address.

I think that we also need to take scarce resources and use them wisely.

That is a bit of a stoic idea as well.

I think there is also work to do and the biggest threat and the thing that we need to address is ensuring that people have confidence through transparency and through facts.

Through voting integrity for me, like Marcus is about, seeking the truth.

And sharing that truth and being open to different perspectives on how to get even better.

>> So, one of the things that we like to do with Leaders as Readers is we ask people to take an excerpt from their chosen book to really try to personify and explain why they selected it so Pam, you've done that for Meditations, please give us a reading.

>> Well this again is a bit of a stream of consciousness from an emperor, and his values and leadership being about keeping an open mind do not surround yourself with yes people if you want to be a leader and do not be threatened by the truth.

And so he read or wrote in book 6, section 21, let me get to the previous page, "If anyone can refute me, show me I am making a mistake or looking at things from the wrong perspective, I will gladly change, it's the truth I'm after and the truth never harmed anyone.

What harms us is to persist in self deceit and ignorance."

I think that is a pretty apropos theme for this time of disinformation.

>> That is wonderful.

>> Yeah.

>> Pam Anderson thank you so much for joining us and for all of our viewers, this is Leaders as Readers with PBS 12 and Tattered Cover.

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