Support for this program was provided by the Kansas School Board Resource Center.

From the Alvin and Rosalie Sarah Studio, PBS Kansas presents resolving the Literacy Crisis in Kansas schools.

Hello and welcome to the second installment of our series on resolving the literacy crisis in Kansas schools.

I'm your host, Jamila Parikh.

In part one, we learned that one third of Kansas students struggle to read and that only 17% of Kansas graduates are college ready in English, reading, math and science.

We also discussed how the literacy crisis is affecting higher education and the workforce, as well as the factors that contributed to its development.

Tonight, we explore the significant barriers blocking students path to academic success because, as Apple co-founder Steve Jobs said, if you define the problem correctly, you almost have the solution.

First, we'll speak with three legislators about laws intended to facilitate academic improvement that aren't being followed as intended.

Then we will discuss local school board members challenges in obtaining the information and support they need to guide districts toward better outcomes.

School districts exist to academically prepare students for life after high school, and in many cases, however, critics contend that school district's strategic plans don't make academic improvement.

The number one priority in our third segment will discuss why strategic planning and goal setting may unintentionally create literacy barriers.

Our final panel will explain why an ineffective method of teaching students to read must be urgently replaced by structured literacy and the science of reading.

I'll introduce our first panel from your left or right.

First, we have Senator Rene Erickson, who chairs the Senate Education Committee, and Topeka.

And Senator Erickson represents the 30th Senate District in East Wichita.

And she also worked in public schools as a teacher and a middle school principal.

Our next panelist is also a former teacher representative Kristi Williams represents district 77 and Augusta.

She chaired the House K-through-12 Budget Committee for several years and currently serves on the Education Funding Task Force.

And finally, Representative Sherry Brantley represents the 112th District in Great Bend and is Vice Chair of the K through 12 Budget Committee and serves on the House Education Committee.

She also has 30 plus years as a math teacher and a math interventionist.

Each of our panelists serves on a variety of other committees in the Kansas Legislature.

And Senator Erickson, let's start with you.

First off, now, education topics often lead to sharp divides in the legislature.

What do you want Kansans to know about that today?

Well, yes, there are obviously disagreements, but I do think we all agree on the goal of giving kids a great education.

Look, we all want kids to excel and succeed.

I think we also agree that teachers want what's best for kids, as well as all people in the school system, and they're working very hard.

Still, student outcomes are really short of what students need to be successful.

And I think we need to focus on fixing that with a sense of urgency.

This is not a Partizan issue.

We are all responsible for identifying the obstacles and having the courage to implement the changes that we know need to be made.

Absolutely.

And Representative Williams, what are your thoughts on this?

Well, I 100% agree that we're all in this together and that we have to be courageous and looking for solutions, and we have to be courageous and agree on what those problems are.

Our students are our number one priority.

Our teachers are the number one pathway to get our students to the very best outcomes.

So we should be committed to toward that.

And students first with the assistance of the teachers.

And from there we can find a path forward for better literacy for Kansas.

It's a team effort.

It really is.

And let's talk about the building needs assessment law.

I understand there's a fair amount of controversy about that.

Representative Brantley, let's start with what the law is intended to do.

Thank you.

That's a great question.

Our school boards, according to the law, are supposed to go out and meet with the schools, the principals of staff, teachers so that they know where to direct their budget needs rather than, in the dark, not knowing whether the budget is driving that student outcome results.

So making sure that our school boards are not siloed away from the schools.

This law helps bring everyone together and have a collaboration time and a consensus and a transparency for those, needs.

And, Senator, what do you say about this?

Well, here's a good example of what these meetings can disclose.

A school board member encouraged a superintendent to have an assessment meeting at an elementary school.

So all of the teachers, the principal, the superintendent, the school board member were there, and they started discussing barriers.

And one teacher disclosed that they really weren't sure that they knew how to effectively teach students how to read.

Well, the superintendent and principal were shocked by this, but all but one teacher in that meeting echoed those sentiments and said, me too.

And they all pointed to the same thing.

They were not taught how to implement the science of reading when they were in college.

So situations like this are exactly what this law is intended to uncover.

Okay, that been tastic.

And we have a segment devoted to the science of reading in part three of our series.

Can one of you give the audience a brief explanation about this and what that means?

Representative Brantley, thank you.

The science of reading is a scientific, evidence based practice that we will teach reading.

According to the research, which has been around for about 50 years.

And it starts with a two strand type process where we look at phonics and that fun into logical, phonological, excuse me awareness that we teach students how to decode the words.

And once they can decode the words, they incorporate, comprehension in with those processes.

So it's not just a isolated, phonics, but it also adds to it the comprehension process and building on that.

As we look at universities, often our pre-service candidates are not getting that instruction.

And that's really vital for them to be able to go into the classroom and be able to teach the science of reading immediately.

So we want to make sure that we are bringing the science of reading to our pre-service candidates so that they can actually go out to the classroom and start off right away teaching the science of reading for our students.

And what can the legislature do about this?

Well, we've already done a couple of things very important.

Every child can read act.

We passed in 23, and then we followed that up with, blueprint for literacy in 2024.

And basically, the those two laws work together to ensure that by the time our kids are in third grade, they need to be successful readers in order to have a successful, career in education.

And then on in their, other pursuit of academics and professional life.

So we establish that they, they need to have just the basics of structural literacy, which is the science of reading and phonics.

And then we establish there need to be screenings, and there needs to be interventions for those that are struggling.

And finally, there needs to be really good, effective and ongoing parental communication.

All of those things can work together for the success of our students.

Absolutely.

And going back to the blueprint, the blueprint for literacy legislation established a proficiency goal to go from 34% proficient in reading and math.

In 2023 to 50% by 2033.

And how is that going so far?

Senator Erikson?

Well, we don't know, because the state Board of Education reduced proficiency standard.

Look, the law that we passed said that the state board shall not substantially revise or update the English language arts or mathematics curriculum standards that were in place on July 1st of 2024, in a manner that would necessitate the development of new statewide assessments in English language arts and math.

Now, curriculum standards are what students are able to know or should be able to know, and proficiency standards measure how well they achieve that.

So on an assessment, curriculum, curriculum standards are what the students are tested on.

And proficiency measures how well they do on that assessment.

Well, if we use the tests that we had in place and the proficiency standards from 2024 when the blueprint for literacy was put into place, 34% of our students were proficient in reading.

The state board is now telling us that it's 44%.

We know this isn't accurate because independent tests like the Act and the National Assessment for Educational Progress show that results are actually declining.

Yeah, absolutely.

Now, let's also talk let's move on to our last topic, at risk funding.

And the legislature provides over 500 million each year to fund extra services for students who are academically at risk of failing.

A 2019 state audit concluded that school districts aren't spending the money as required in state law.

And a follow up audit in 2023 said nothing has changed.

Now, how can this happen?

Representative Williams, it's something the legislature is really paying close attention to, and we want to continue to follow up on, especially as we are trying to construct a new formula for funding.

But bottom line, at risk funding is for kids, for students to have above and beyond services, beyond what they would get in a regular classroom.

And those audits found that the majority of all funding was used for regular classroom teachers.

That's not what the law prescribes.

And furthermore, we have no consequence in state law.

We would hope that the State Board of Education would come in and fill that gap, and require all schools to follow the law in order to meet accreditation standards.

However, in a recent state Board of Education meeting, sadly it was said that they only need to follow applicable laws.

So it makes me wonder, do they choose what is and what is not applicable?

At risk funding needs to be for students to have above and beyond services, and I'm very disappointed that we really haven't gotten to that place yet.

So you're saying that the state school board is allowing districts to ignore the at risk funding law?

Apparently they are.

Because since 2019, we've not seen a change in how the moneys have been used.

And frankly, we've we've seen the the students that qualify for at risk services do worse, not better, better.

And that gap between those that are paying for their lunch and not paying for their lunch is growing.

That's not a good sign.

So is that why it said that student outcomes won't change until adult behaviors change?

Well, exactly.

And it's not just adults in education administration.

It's legislators as well.

Look, we consider changing the law to require the state Board of Education to remove accreditation from school districts that do not comply with laws like this.

But we couldn't get the votes to pass it.

Okay.

Well, Senator Erickson and Representative Williams and Representative Brantley, thank you so much for highlighting some of the major institutional barriers contributing to the literacy crisis in Kansas.

And when we come back, we'll talk about some challenges local school boards face in resolving the Kansas literacy crisis.

Thank you.

Ladies.

We've talked with legislators, former educators, who have made what they say are exciting inroads to improving literacy by legislating literacy standards focused funding on the At-Risk student populations and holding ourselves accountable to best standards.

But now we turn our focus and discussion to the barriers on the local level for school board members to get the information and the support they need to lead their districts to improve student outcomes and resolve this literacy crisis in Kansas.

Our panelists are Kirsten Workman, school board member from Lansing.

The Lansing district, who I understand now has taught for five years as a nursing instructor and as a registered nurse.

And joining her is Doctor Tracy Frederick, executive director for the Kansas School Board Resource Center, who also taught for 30 years in the public school classroom and higher education and also served as an administrator.

So thank you, ladies for being here, I appreciate it.

And first off, Kirsten, first, let me thank you for being here in your service.

And we know it takes a lot of time, that you offer and we appreciate that.

Now you serve in a volunteer position that takes countless hours and often goes unappreciated.

And I understand it is a challenging position, but it would seem even more so when you see the persistent declining outcomes in your district and across Kansas.

So what do you say about that?

Well, first, thank you, Jim.

It's truly a privilege to serve in this position.

Ultimately, school board members are accountable to our constituents for the quality of the education that our students receive.

Whether students graduate college or career ready depends, in a large part upon the educational goals and expectations set by the board.

As you know, we are experiencing a literacy crisis in Kansas and in times of crisis, positive oversight from leadership is not enough to change the trajectory of our course.

Boards must actively govern.

That can be difficult for many board members for several reasons, but particularly because so many believe that the primary role of a school board member is to promote and represent the school district.

However, board members are actually elected to do the opposite to represent the public's interest for its children to the school district.

Our job is to provide oversight, to collaborate with the district, set expectations to ensure the conditions for academic success are in place, and to bring accountability to the system.

That is tasked with educating our children.

And I think this is what it comes down to.

That people ask often is how do you ensure that this happens?

Well, it doesn't mean choosing the curriculum or supervising the day to day instruction in the classroom.

What it does mean is setting specific, non-negotiable literacy goals requiring the use of evidence based teaching practice, identifying those at risk students early and meeting their needs consistently.

Allocating financial resources that are in alignment with our stated priorities.

And lastly, holding leadership accountable for student outcomes.

Everything starts with quality goal setting, while setting goals with aspirational, language centered around general improvement may feel good or seem sufficient, but we are truly failing our students.

If that's all we do.

We can work harder, spend more, and exert endless amounts of effort.

But without clearly defined goals, we'll end up focusing on insignificant tasks.

If board members do not define specific literacy outcomes which are measurable, if we do not insist on fidelity to evidence based techniques and curriculum, and frequently monitor student progress, we should expect no significant improvements in literacy.

Okay, doctor Frederick, what do you say about that?

That's the thing.

I mean, that needs to be done, but it's hard to make sure that happens.

It certainly is.

And I think that, Kirsten talked about in the first question came to that point of accountability.

And so she talked about how school boards hold the systems accountable.

But, you know, we all have to realize that everybody is held accountable.

The school board is held accountable by the community to ensure that they're providing and overseeing and making sure that that the school is holding the values that are reflected in the community and the expectations that the community parents have for students to be prepared when they graduate.

So in partnership with those parents, so that so very important.

But also, in order to do that, what we do or what I do is we coach school board members to ask questions.

I mean, you know, there's no threat in asking a question of how do we do that?

How are we accomplishing that?

What resources are we using or art?

Do we need more resources for this?

So asking those questions allows school board members to really dive in and figure out, are we meeting those goals and the expectations that the community has for us and representing the community, in ensuring that those students are achieving those that preparation that they need and that is expected there, you know, again, held accountable by the community to do that for our students.

Absolutely.

And now, I would assume that you visit the schools and the classrooms and see how your district is doing.

I mean, I know that can be difficult and time consuming, but, how do you hold them accountable?

Well, actually, while most districts do have policy that acknowledge schools belong to the public, accessing them during the school day, even for a board member is not as simple as you might think.

Security concerns.

Staff fears over being evaluated by board member and student privacy are some of the reasons I've heard to discourage board members from visiting schools.

Our district does welcome board members for the occasional walk through, but a neighboring district, for example, requires advance notice from a board member, coordination of an appointment time, and a superintendent escort, just to visit the the schools.

No one wants to be disruptive, but sometimes it seems that paid contractors and other guests have greater access to the learning environment than the representatives who are accountable for it.

Doctor.

Well, it's, and it's so interesting that when we get our school board members connected with the teachers, it's so interesting.

The teachers will say, could you please come visit my class?

Come and look.

Walk through.

You're welcome any time.

Come see what we're doing.

Because what it does is it allows the school board members to see, you know, all the things they talk about in that school board meeting, as far as, you know, improve literacy or programs that they're implementing.

Are they working?

And really, teachers love it because what they can say is, you know, they they allows the school board members to see how those resources are being used or to see that, well, you know, they do need some resources.

This teacher does need someone to help them in that classroom.

So it puts all those things they talk about in that boardroom in real time and gives them a look at that.

There are unfortunately, those districts that really don't that do not allow school board members into the classroom.

They perceive it to be disruptive or in some way that is going to be, overbearing on teachers.

But my experience has been teachers, even in the districts that don't allow it say, please come any time, read to the kids, come, come to the classroom.

Yeah, I think that too.

It needs to be a team feeling and not a disconnect.

Exactly.

Now one question two do board members get the test scores regularly?

Oftentimes what they will get is kind of a general overview of the question or, you know, of the those assessment scores.

So they you know, they'll get the assessment scores.

And then oftentimes it is in a comparison to another district or to the state.

So they say, you know, we're five.

You know we're only five points below or percentage points below the state average.

Well quite honestly Jamal, if the state averages about 40% proficient in reading, that's a very different kind of a conversation.

So five points below may sound pretty good or worth three points or three percentage points above some district that is close to us.

If those base scores that they're talking about are in the 30 or the 40th percentile of only those students who are proficient, which means they don't need extra help, they don't need extra time.

They don't need someone sitting next to them helping them do that.

Then that is a very different conversation.

Then we're better then.

And Kirsten, do you feel the same way?

I do, I think there's in general relatively little acknowledgment from the district to state assessment scores.

That's why many school board members, such as myself, spend many hours of our own time and resources trying to find our local, student proficiency levels on our own.

The study and analysis that should take place as a group of school board members often happens in a silo, or not at all, just because the information isn't truly accessible, or is very valued by the administration, I guess, you know, go ahead.

I'm sorry, I was just going to add that, you know, along with that, there are often times when, board members are told, well, you know, this this information just so complicated, you know, you won't, you know, let's just, you know, give you the, you know, the overview of that rather than actually giving them this score that they really won't be able to interpret that.

And you feel like if the data and the resources were available, this could make a big difference in the literacy crisis.

Oh well, sure.

And encourage them.

Might be able to speak to that as well.

You know, in the seat in which she actually looks at that.

But that's what I find oftentimes.

I mean, just a couple of weeks ago, I spoke to a school board member who said, he got the wrong score.

You know, we make we're doing X, you know, these are literacy scores.

These are math scores.

And so therefore we're doing really well.

And so the school board member had the the scores themselves says, but do you realize that two thirds of our students still can't read write.

So we may be better than this district over here.

But you know what?

We gotta look into our own house.

Because as a state, we're not doing very well.

We're really not.

And fortunately, we're not now.

In 1998, when the Nape scores came out, we were doing better than average.

Unfortunately, now that we're at the very bottom of that and we got to make some changes, now, you know, we can sit around and we can wait for something to happen.

But we've been doing that for a decade, right?

Right now.

Kirsten, what do you think needs to happen between you and your teachers when you see what could really make a difference?

Because I do hate to hear that kind of you have that disconnect and that it's kind of fearful, maybe for the teachers thinking, oh, goodness, a school board member is coming to the classroom.

You know, how that kind of like when your boss, Jack Lee, but you really want to make them know that you're there for them, to help them succeed and help their students succeed?

It's not that you're you're trying to look down upon them.

You want to be a resource to help them.

How do you think that can really happen?

I think that's correct.

I think most board members, and myself included, want to reassure our teachers that we're not there to evaluate them.

That's not our role.

That's not even on our minds.

We really just want to have a picture of what they need to be successful where our students really are, so that we can all have a conversation where we're kind of starting from the same place, working together.

Exactly.

You know, many people don't realize that a board member cannot fire a teacher.

You know, a board.

They're a teacher reports to a principal, an assistant principal superintendent.

And so there are recommendations for contracts, but a board member isn't there to fire.

They do not fire or hire.

I mean, they they will, you know, approve contracts, but they are a they hold the superintendent accountable for those outcomes.

The superintendent is, you know, that CEO of that organization to make sure that is moving in the right direction.

And so they're not there to even, you know, look for some kind of contract problem or, you know, bring something up, right?

Right.

They're there to help.

Yes.

And, Kirsten, what made you want to become a school board member?

I mean, it takes a lot of time.

You know, it's volunteer time, and you have to do a lot of studying, and you have to do a lot of research.

So what made you want to be a school board member?

Because I care about the the children in our community.

I could see some of the gaps that my own children were, suffering and working through just from their education.

I wanted to be a part of that, to kind of solving the problems and meeting teachers, meeting students where they are so that we can make a difference so that children can read.

Because like, like Tracy said, to two thirds of our young adults are not not where they need to be, right?

With reading, they won't be able to understand Elise.

They won't be able to understand health care information that's written, instructions at work.

They won't be able to fully enjoy reading and other culturally enriching activities.

They won't be able to express themselves if they're not reading where they need to be.

And it is a crisis, and we do need to change our course and do something different in order to make sure that the next generation can read and write.

Well, you bet.

And it's our job as parents, as education leaders, as school board members, to get these kids prepared for the workforce, for college so they can go out, spread their wings, and build a great future for all of us.

That's exactly right.

I mean, that's really the whole purpose.

I mean, every every school, every district, every educational institution is there to prepare students so that they will be able to have the skills that they need in order to accomplish their life goals.

I mean, each of us, we have been in different, you know, occupations in our lives.

But having all of those fundamental skills to be able to read, to do math, those basic skills allow us to achieve and to be able to, you know, do anything.

Our opportunities are endless if we're able to do that.

Absolutely.

Thank you, ladies, we really appreciate your time and we appreciate the board to take on this responsibility.

And it's it's a serious issue.

And we appreciate you, ladies, for providing insight into the serious challenges and obstacles that school boards face to get the information they need to make sure our kids have the education they deserve, and resolve the Kansas literacy crisis.

When we return, we'll examine some organizational barriers within school districts that must be overcome to remove obstacles to learning.

Welcome back.

I'm your host, Jamal holla Parikh.

Yogi Berra was a Hall of Fame catcher for the New York Yankees, whose unique way of putting things in perspective lives on today.

And one of his famous Yogi isms is you have to know where you're going, or you might not get there.

It's pretty obvious, right?

If you ask, what's the purpose of a school district?

Our next guest says you're more likely to get a list of objectives rather than a singular purpose.

He says school districts do a lot of things, but the school board and district staff must be united behind a nothing gets in the way singular purpose.

Dave Propert, CEO of Kansas Policy Institute, discusses a school district's purpose in his book, Eight Things to Know About Running for School Board.

And Dave, you write about the difference between actions and intentions in your book with a great example about school board agendas.

Yeah.

So a few years ago we had, AJ Craveable, author of great, on their behalf in town, talking to Kansas school board members, and he took them through an exercise.

He said, think back on all the agendas you've seen over the last year.

And and now think about how much time was devoted over that year to talking about improving student outcomes.

And we'd go through a few iterations and all that, wasn't it.

And then finally they get when they narrowed it down, they kind of agreed it was less than 5%.

And so it really struck a nerve with those school board members because we're not spending enough time focusing on what we need to be doing.

Yes.

What should be a school district's purpose, in your opinion?

Well, the singular purpose has to be improving student outcomes.

I mean, there's, as you said, school districts do a lot of things and they will continue to do things.

But if you have, say, five, priorities, then you have four priorities competing for time and resources with improving student outcomes.

Right.

I was going to ask you, what goals do districts have other than improving outcomes?

Improving outcomes is number one.

But what other things?

Well, first of all, they're not really goals.

They're more like objectives.

And so here's, here's a district that has, four goals, four priorities, rather, number one is focus on individual student growth to maximize college and career opportunities.

Number two, build positive relationships within schools and communities.

Number three, manage our resources efficiently and effectively.

And number four, provide a safe and functional environment.

Now focusing on student growth sounds good but you're just focusing.

You're not improving.

And if you don't hold yourself accountable to something specific as Yogi said, you're probably not going to get there.

So it has to be very specific or it's not going to be accomplished.

Yes.

Okay.

And now how do school boards go about setting measurable goals for improving student outcomes.

Well, most don't have measurable goals.

They have objectives and they have things.

I mean I know they think they do.

This is all very well intended.

And honestly, I was guilty of a lot of the same things until I went through some of the training that we're putting school board members through now.

It has to be a very specific goal.

So, they just the ones that are really doing it now or are listening to their communities first and they're getting their direction from the community.

And why is community input so important?

Well, I mean, you think about it.

A school board member isn't elected to go share his or her personal opinions.

They're not elected to represent the district's desires.

They were elected to represent the community.

And so you really need to understand what the community wants.

That's what needs to be conveyed at at board meetings.

So again I'll give you a great example.

This, this real story happened.

So we worked with one district.

Asked us to come in and help with strategic planning.

And, we said, now we understand that you're proud of being a little above, the state average.

I think they were about ten points above.

They were at 43% proficient.

And, they said, you're proud, right?

And they said, well, yeah, yeah, we're really proud.

We're doing well.

And we said, well, do you think your community would say mission accomplished at 43%?

And her jaw dropped.

Right.

I mean, they hadn't thought of it that way.

But to their credit, they talked amongst themselves and they said, no.

I said, well, what do you think it would be?

And they came up with, well, somewhere between 70 and 80%.

And we said, okay, that that means we have a lot of work to do, don't we?

Because we're not going to get there by doing the same things that brought us here.

And you could just see the realization settle in.

And, and it's that's the kind of training every school board needs, to understand how to come together behind a singular purpose.

And they did, and they started listening to the community.

And that's how they started turning the place around.

Thank you, Dave, for being here.

We appreciate it.

This has certainly been eye opening.

And when we return, we'll talk with two literacy experts who will explain why some reading programs are major contributors to the literacy crisis in Kansas.

Schools.

Many of us were taught to read with phonics.

We learned to map sounds to letters or letter groups and an alphabetic writing system.

But in the 1990s, some schools began using a different method called balanced literacy, which many experts believe led to a national decline in literacy.

Over the last decade, however, there's been a resurgence in using phonics and the science of reading in schools.

Joining me now we have Doctor David Hurford and Janine Phillips.

Doctor Hurford has published in the scientific literature regarding reading, has designed evaluation and intervention tools curricula.

Children's books about dyslexia and is the co-executive editor of Perspectives on Language and Literacy.

Thank you for being here.

And Janine Phillips is the executive director of the Phillips Fundamental Learning Center in Wichita.

Phillips and the late Gretchen and Diehl co-founded the Learning Center in 2001.

After years of fighting to get help for their own children with dyslexia.

Now, Janine, tell us a little more about the Phillips Fundamental Learning Center.

The Phillips Learning Center started in Park Lane Shopping Center with 3000ft.

Gretchen, I got together, took training, in Texas, brought it back.

And the goal was to teach teachers how to recognize children with dyslexia and then teach them a curriculum, a program that would improve these kids reading skills and lives.

So honestly, we thought when we opened that 3000ft, we thought, we'll do this for five years, we'll solve the problem and we'll be done.

No, it did not happen.

So we grew, a fundamental learning center.

We moved into assessing children with, to lexia and was kind of the next step.

We went into advocacy and, and finally we decided to start a school.

And the school did not work well.

And park in the backside of Park Lane shopping centers.

So that's when we went looking for a new spot, and we moved to the Cessna Center at, almost Grove and 21st Street.

At and at that point in time, we knew we needed to build a new building, which we did.

So and doctor Hurford, what is the science of reading and why has it, superior to balanced literacy?

That's a really good question.

And first, I think it's important to note that science is a way that we understand reality, and we do so using the scientific method so that we can extract our own personal biases which which we have.

The science of reading is the application of science to reading.

And everything that we know about reading that's been vetted through science is the science of reading.

So, you know, the neurological processes involved with reading, phonological processing, how we identify what we should do about kids who are struggling readers and how to teach kids in general.

So that's the science piece of it.

And from the science we have structured literacy.

But but let's talk about how we get to be good readers.

And that starts, you know, when most kids are born they just have to be immersed in a language environment and they acquire language.

I kind of akin that to the firmware that's implanted in our brain.

You know, they just have to have exposure and then they acquire language.

Reading is an entirely different process.

However, reading is a process that is sort of like learning a second language where you're mapping the grapheme or the letters on to the sounds that are used to represent them.

So when we're looking at, you know, infants, you know, parents need to talk to them.

They need to use a rich language construction to increase the vocabulary, because we know that when kids get to kindergarten, that's one of the best predictors of academic success.

Well, by the time a kid gets to be three, they're acquiring so many different words, it's incredible.

Why?

For in the process of learning how to read, you need to be able to understand words that are composed of sounds, smaller units of the words.

And we call that phonemic awareness.

If you don't have phonemic awareness, then you're going to have big challenges learning how to read, because that is what you're mapping.

Those grapheme on are the phonemes or the sounds.

So in about 4 or 5, you can pretty reliably predict children who are going to struggle to learn how to read.

And then when they get to kindergarten, we're going to start working on letter sound correspondences, because they need to know that the sounds that they know in their spoken language are represented by these little grapheme right, or letters.

And in an alphabetically based system, like the English writing system, that is essential to learning how to read.

And so once they learn that sound letter correspondences and they they're learning phonics, that's the phonics piece of it.

But it's like we characterized the reading words as, you know, whole language versus phonics.

And that's not really an accurate characterization, because if all you did was teach phonics, kids would still struggle to learn how to read.

You absolutely need that phonics piece, because that's how our alphabetically based language represents sounds.

But once, once you get into kindergarten, you're learning those letter sound correspondences.

Then you learn how to decode those letters into the sounds synthesizer, blend them together, and as you're blending together, we still need to work on vocabulary, because at the end of the day, the most important thing is to be able to comprehend.

So I think it's important because we talk about in Senate Bill 438, we talk about the science of reading, which is the science that gets us to understand what's going on with reading.

And we talk about structured literacy, which is the way we should be teaching reading based on the science.

And so when we look at, you know, the three queuing system and it's very it's like the balanced literacy and all those other kinds of approaches, the people who started those really cared about kids and they wanted to get kids to comprehension very quickly, but they were unfortunately not following the science because it wasn't much science done then.

And they're they're incorrect.

Yeah.

Because you have to decode.

And so with the three queuing system and its variants were, you know, you're saying to a child if they don't know the word guess based on the pictures in the book, or guess based on the sentence or two prior to that word, or try to decode the first part of the word and guess the rest of it, which Goodman calls the psycho linguistic guessing game is absolutely not the way to teach them.

And so balanced literacy was like, hey, let's take the whole language and just stick phonics on there.

And like I said, that's that's not going to be enough, right?

As any time you ask kids to guess, then they're not going to get it.

We have to teach them systematically and what they do at the Phillips Learning Center, systematically and explicitly, the relationship between print and sound.

And then they develop those skills.

But we also have to work on vocabulary, because if you decode a word correctly, but you never heard the word before, you're like, oh, I don't know what that is, right?

And Janine, you've worked with a lot of students with dyslexia.

You had it, your son had it.

But it doesn't mean just because a kid can't read.

They have dyslexia.

Exactly.

It does not.

We know right now what 71% of our children and by fourth grade are by learning three of that group.

We know we can kind of predict 20% are on a spectrum of dyslexia from mild to profound, severe.

So really we have 56% of the overall struggling population at yeah, they're not dyslexic, but they're struggling to read.

And you know what I show a teachers every day is if you know how to teach a child with a structured language program, literacy program, you can teach anybody to read.

But what we know is children with dyslexia must have that approach if they're going to have any chance to learn, to read, to write and to spell.

And it's amazing to have that remedy right there where they can use that expense, and not because parents struggle so much.

Our kids are going through this and so does the child.

Absolutely.

And what we're finding today and so does the parent.

Now we have parents who cannot read a children's book right now who went through balanced literacy or whole, you know, homework instruction.

So it really, we're deeming it our crisis that we're seeing across the state.

And Doctor Herford, we learned earlier in this program about legislative struggles to pass the Kansas Blueprint for literacy in 2024.

And we're now a little over a year under the program.

How do you assess its impact and what can be done to improve the effectiveness?

That's a good question.

And, you know, I was part of the group that helped write the initial piece of that legislation.

And, you know, we we looked at, you know, No Child Left Behind our own research experiences, other peoples.

And the law itself actually does a great job of laying out what needs to happen.

Now, of course, there's going to always be delay between, you know, the, the law and then seeing the effects because this is really moving a giant system in a different direction.

In reality, teachers want to know this information.

You know, if you've listened to a Sold a Story podcast, Emily Hanford interviews individuals who are teachers who are like, I knew something was not right with this approach.

And I feel terrible now knowing I could help so many children now.

So, so really, this is an opportunity for us to work together to, to make a huge difference.

And I think that's kind of the important point.

It's going to take some time to get this done, but we need to still stay on track.

It's about implementation at this point in time, you know, because if you look at the number of individuals who are working towards understanding the science of reading and structure literacy, that's improving, KSTP requires that individuals, get the literacy seal and when they get, re licensed and so we're seeing people making effort to get to this point.

And I think about half the teachers are somewhere in the process of getting that done at colleges of education, we're now teaching to at least two science based, reading courses.

And, you know, granted, are the students leaving those courses right now knowing everything they need to know?

Not really.

Because we're still making progress in even helping professors understand what the science of reading and structured literacy is.

There are some places that are doing that very, very well.

There's other places that are getting retooled to do that.

School systems are required to use structured literacy as their, coursework and structure.

Literacy is a framework.

It's not necessarily a curriculum, but it's how the curricula should be, written based on structured literacy, which is explicit and systematic, dealing with, you know, phonics and vocabulary, letter sound correspondences, those types of things that we know through science works.

And so it's important that we get everyone on the same page.

But, you know, we're talking about an entire state of people, which is it's going to take some time, but we have to keep doing it.

We have to give people support, because if we don't and people start abandoning this new effort, which is more challenging, then in the end people will say, well, I, I knew science of reading wasn't going to be the answer.

It is the answer.

Because everything that we know about reading is contained within that body of knowledge.

And so we need to apply that.

So, you know, we're getting there.

We're not there yet.

We have very lofty goals.

90% of kids reading at, base, you know, the basic level, stage two or greater.

That's a lot.

And as, Jeanine said earlier, we know that we can get practically all kids learning how to read the scientific literature says 95 to 97% of children.

Well, right now we're nowhere near that.

Right?

So we get anywhere near that 90% goal by 2033.

That's going to be enormous.

And that's going to be wonderful.

And we can put more resources to the kids who are struggling.

But really, it it takes what we call a tier one, where, you know, it's what all kids should be getting as their reading instruction should be based in structure literacy.

If we do that, far fewer kids are going to struggle.

And my friend Bob Pasternak, who was the assistant secretary of education during the No Child Left Behind era, says, you know, beyond those kids who are reading disabled or dyslexic, we have kids, as he calls them, ain't been taught, they haven't been taught.

If we teach them correctly, they're going to get it.

Yeah.

And how powerful is that?

And you both are so passionate about this.

And, Jeanine, your alphabetic phonics, program was finally added to the Kansas State Board of Education list of approved state at risk evidence based programs.

And to tell us about the alphabetic phonics and why it's such a challenge to get, the approved list.

You know, I asked that question for 20 years.

Why won't anybody look at this page?

It just this I discovered alphabetic phonics when, my dear friend and co-founder Gretchen, I met her as I was searching for what I taught with my son Cooper.

He was I had a terrible kindergartner, first grade.

We moved at Wichita and first grade, I knew I did not want to go through an at or kindergarten or so like, and so I worked with him.

Alzheimer.

My background was elementary and I thought, I'll do everything I can to teach him.

Well.

By the time school starts, I saw no hope.

So I met with the school staff, got a call within three days after school started, and the reading specialist said, I don't know why your son has.

I've never seen anything like it.

He's super smart, he knows nothing.

And she said, I need to know what medical people have to say.

And I said, 14 different medical professionals.

When he had that miserable kindergarten, Aaron, she sent her to see an educational psychologist.

And I said, no, where do I go?

So that's when we found out he was profoundly dyslexic.

So I start asking that system, what do you guys have for children with dyslexia?

Nothing.

So Devin and so I beg question, in I would say the 1st of October, her child struggled significantly.

So she had found alphabetic phonics training site in Dallas, Texas.

So she grabbed me by the shoulders and she said, you're going to have to go to Texas.

You're going to have to learn how to teach.

Cooper.

And I said, I'll do whatever it says.

Well, I can't say that it hurts.

Okay.

And I got cold feet.

Are you do she paid for my course?

It was a three week course.

You came back to Wichita, worked with kids, you went back for three weeks.

So by the time it came for me to get in my car on January 7th, a to Texas, I have to decide.

I'm not going.

My phone rang.

It was a landline at the time.

We didn't have car phone and my landline rang and I picked it up and she said, you're supposed to be on the road.

And I said, Gretchen, I cannot go.

I decided this morning.

She said, did you pack?

And I said, I did pack, but I'm not going.

So she hung up on me.

She left three blocks away.

Within five minutes, my garage door was still open.

I'm taking the kids to school and that's why I decided I can't go.

So I'm sitting at the kitchen table.

She comes into the store, walks up to the kitchen table.

She said, where is your bag?

I said, I'm not going.

She went back to my bedroom.

I at the bag, pulled it two in my car, gave me a thermos, had coffee and she said, I knew this, that yeah, I knew this was going to happen.

So she said, I'm prepared to get in your car and drive you, and I'm going to be so mad because I have to fly home.

I thought, oh my goodness, there.

And she'll pay for my class.

So I thought, I must go, I must go.

I landed in Dallas that night for my purse.

Evening class changed my life.

That was where I realized I had to come.

She was right.

I was saving his life.

And now, looking back, absolutely.

And that's what she shared with every parent that came into our center.

Alphabetic phonics is a must, and you must learn as a parent as well.

Like your role is to work with your kids.

Yeah.

Now, Doctor Hurford, the National Council on Teacher Quality says some universities in Kansas and across the nation have very good teacher preparation programs for reading.

But others in Kansas and across the nation do a rather poor job.

Do you think that's accurate?

And if so, why is that?

Well, I, I think it it's it's accurate.

The, National Council of Teacher Quality is starting in 2000, 2002, George Bush signed the now, No Child Left Behind legislation.

And since then, they've been pretty aggressive, looking at what colleges of education are doing to teach reading, because their whole bit is really to try to figure out and help people become more efficient in teaching pre-service teachers to become teachers.

And so I, I think that that's it's pretty accurate.

But in reality, you know, that's that's why Senate Bill 438, in part was developed is to ensure that colleges of education are applying the science of reading and structure literacy.

And I know that there's some places in Kansas that are doing that very well.

And I know there's some places in Kansas we're working towards that.

But I would say that across the nation it's definitely true.

But also I would say that, you know, when you're looking at the grades and I've, I've actually communicated with personnel at NC, TCU and you know, they downgrade, the College of Education's grade if they have four or more un scientifically based approaches to teaching reading.

And my argument is they should get an F if they have any of those.

Because if you're not, if you're if you give lip service to the National Reading Panel when they talk about, you know, phonemic awareness, phonics, fluency, vocabulary and comprehension, and then you start talking about guessing at words, then you're taking all that good stuff and you're tossing it away.

Now, granted, most teachers in the field want their kids to learn how to read so that they're going to pull all their resources.

So.

Right.

But we need to get things right because I've done 35 years of in-service training and 35 years ago, even then, teachers are saying, why didn't I learn this when I was in school?

Because I want this.

I want this information.

I want to be the best teacher possible.

And I want to add that when we use structured literacy, it's really, helpful for all kids.

It's going to raise, as they say, the boats, all of them, to help our kids become competent readers.

But kids today, every child that goes to kindergarten wants to learn how to read.

And if you remember your kids for their scribbling on their piece of paper, you're like, what are you doing?

They're saying, I'm writing.

Yeah.

You're like, oh, that's that's great, because I can't wait for them to learn how to read.

Very, very motivated.

Right?

Then they get into kindergarten and they realize, oh man, this is not working for me.

It seems like my friends are learning, but I'm not what they don't recognize.

There's roughly 3,040% of kids who are also struggling, but they're all hiding it because no one wants to be outed for that.

And we see kids at our center where they have anxiety and depression in kindergarten, in first grade, and in third and fourth, that morphs into more serious issues that are psychiatrically involved.

We see more kids who are suicidal, and it just these this is probably the easiest problem to solve because we have the answer, right.

We just have to deploy it in a reality.

That's what we're doing in Kansas.

You know, should this have been done 20, 40 years ago?

Sure.

But in reality, it's what we're doing right now.

Yeah.

And we need to put every effort we can into making sure this is successful for our kids.

It's not for me.

It's not for Janine.

You know, we're reading now, even if it does struggle.

But it's for these kids and a reality.

Like if you look at what's happening in our culture today and people are finding it difficult to get jobs, most places require you least be able to read high school diploma.

Now it's more of a college diploma.

We need to get kids in technology and other things, so that they have a means of supporting themselves.

Because when you don't feel like you can do that, then you feel bad about all.

You're so bad about that.

Yeah, absolutely.

And today in business, if there's a way not to use human humans, that's what we're doing.

We've already done that.

You know, in places where there's a repetitive movement or movement where we use robotics now we're replacing humans with AI.

So we've got to have a way for people to earn money.

And so this is not just an academic reading issue.

It's a life issue.

Sure.

And if we're not doing something right now to solve it, we're not doing our due diligence to help our families and children.

Now, I have a question for both of you.

Now, what could the Department of Education, local school boards and the legislature do to create a greater sense of urgency around resolving this literacy crisis in Kansas?

What can they do?

I guess I'll go first.

And I would say right now we're we're sort of merging onto the same place like, Janine and I were both on the legislative task Force on dyslexia in 2018 and all of the things that we suggested Ksd adopted and, you know, so they're morphing to get this, you know, correct.

We have a person there, Laurie Curtis, who is now managing the stuff with dyslexia.

We didn't have that before, the legislature.

What would be helpful if they continue to support our efforts?

You know, it's unfortunately it's going to take some funding to help some of this stuff out.

And, you know, and you've heard and lots of people have heard of the Mississippi miracle.

Well, firstly, it's it was not a miracle.

It maybe the miracle was they decided to look at science, but the early 2000, they looked at science.

Barksdale and others started to help them and support them.

It took hundreds of thousands of dollars.

We're not asking for that.

Yeah, we're asking for support to get these places implemented, get things going so we can help our teachers, make sure our pre-service teachers are trained and support families, and we just need to stay on that path.

And and you've seen what has done to your son, what has done for you.

So you've really seen the difference, right?

We have I think I'll go back and just say, well, we're still seeing our teachers who want it, but they can't access information specific to to dyslexia.

As we work with teachers who are still caring.

Well, how do you help them when they read backwards?

Right.

Like they don't read backwards?

That's the biggest Smith.

And because Kansas didn't deal with dyslexia or educate our educators or parents, they don't know how it reads.

So again, we are still in that position of educating this education about what dyslexia is and what does it take to teach a teacher how to teach that child?

These teachers have not been taught, you know.

How to how to associate it with phonics that is so new to every teacher walking into our center, whether they're experienced or not, they do not know about the idea that dyslexia is a language processing issue.

The brain does not process that by sound differently than sound.

Until we teach that to and teach that educator.

It's a lot of work.

It's a lot of work.

It's.

I could talk to you too, for hours.

Yeah.

So thank you for joining us today.

We appreciate this is such great information.

It has been fascinating to hear how disciplined approach to teaching students and how to read it makes an enormous difference in their lives.

Their parents lives.

On our next and final installment of our series on resolving the literacy crisis in Kansas schools, we will explore solutions that can be implemented, and we'll start with a case study of a Kansas school district that is well on its way to improving student outcomes.

Support for this program was provided by the Kansas School Board Resource Center.