(acoustic music) - If you rock the boat back and forth with your hips like this, even harder.

Yeah.

Feel that?

- Mm hm.

- Feel how your knees locking you in there.

- Yeah.

- Tight with your hips.

- So if you just let your legs go loosey goosey and do that.

- Oh.

- Like if you just put 'em down the middle - Uh huh.

- Without on the pegs.

- Oh, oh yeah.

- See how you're wall?

You're not one with the boat?

- Yeah.

- So you wanna be one with the boat.

- Sorry.

(both laugh) - Perfect.

Awesome.

Sweet.

- Okay.

- Okay.

Feel how that feels- - Mm hm.

- to keep your balance after you tilt to the right.

- Yeah.

- And tilt to the left.

- Yep.

- Yep.

You're catching on.

I'm gonna go get your paddle.

- Okay.

(upbeat music) Today, I'm here on this beautiful lake outside of Seattle.

I'll be chatting with Denise Rochelle, who's the founder of the Bronze Chapter.

The Bronze Chapter is an organization that's just a few years old and the goal for the organization is to get more people like me, black, indigenous, people of color, in the outdoors, learning skills, and ultimately building the kind of connection that we need to ensure this planet survives.

So good to meet you.

- My name's Denise Rochelle and I was raised in Seattle and I lived on South Capitol Hill.

And then when I was very young we moved to Kirkland.

When Kirkland was still country.

- And would you say, like, growing up, what was your experience like in terms of being in the outdoors?

Did you always do outdoor things?

- I don't remember not having outdoor experience.

I don't have a lot of childhood memories but I've seen movies where my parents were teaching me to walk at parks and in the ocean.

And that's what I know.

- Many of the stories I tell on this show.

And many of the folks that, folks in organizations I'm working with, where part of what led them to start an organization, was because they didn't see themselves in the outdoors.

- I didn't see myself.

So that definitely was a part of why I started this, because I want to recreate with more people who look like me.

- Hmm.

- I want to see more people who look like us having more varied outdoor experiences in a skilled way.

- Mmhm.

- We need more BIPOC outdoor educators.

We aren't able to find BIPOC educators to teach the things that we want to teach and to give people the experiences we wanna give.

- Mmhm.

- And that has never been a barrier or an obstacle for me.

But it is for a lot of people.

- Right.

- A lot of people do not feel comfortable and don't want to be in an educational, outdoor educational experience that's white led.

- Mmhm.

That is such an important distinction.

That's not my experience, but okay, We need to address it.

(chuckles) Right?

It's not gonna change if we just pretend that that's not an obstacle for folks.

- The flip side of that is that somebody did make a comment to me that I wasn't black enough to connect with black people outdoors.

- Mm.

- In Seattle.

Simply because I'm, you know, I'm vocal and pretty open about who I am and they knew I was biracial.

- Mm.

With gate keeping, I think about where is the hurt that is creating this kind of behavior, right?

This idea of who is, and I get that in different ways being I'm black, but I'm Afro Latinx and my mom's Columbian.

My father's Haitian.

And so in many cases I'm not black enough.

I'm certainly not Latinx enough.

- Mm.

- Right?

So I'm like, well then who the hell am I?

(both laugh) Right?

I wanna ask about your shirt.

It says rewrite Outdoors.

Right?

- It says, - [Both] Rewrite your outdoor narrative.

- We all have a story that is we tell ourselves or that's been told to us and we believe it.

I mean, we all have a narrative and that informs how we move - Mmhm.

- And what maybe we try and what we don't try.

That whole thing about Black people don't swim, Black people don't like cold weather.

So we don't, and we're not into doing snow sports.

You know, we don't like cold, so we're not going in the water.

- Mmhm.

- No Black people do this.

Black people don't do that.

I hate that.

- Mm.

- That is so destructive.

This is our computer.

(laughs) - Mm.

- You know, stuff gets in here and it lives.

We're about, you know, experiences.

And this thing that you experience, now you have a new story.

Your narrative can be whatever you want it to be and be this thing today, could be something else tomorrow.

And you are writing your own book.

All your stories are in the Bronze Chapter - Mm.

- In your own Bronze Chapter.

It is our time to write these stories and the more people I can help and the bronze chapter can help and you can help.

Collectively, we can help people write their own stories that will become lineage and legacy in any small fashion.

You become changed.

You've changed.

- Goosebumps.

- Our meeting today will change me.

- Mmhm.

- It will change you.

- Absolutely.

- You know, we share.

And where we take that tomorrow, who knows?

(uplifting music) You're all the way back.

You're turning!

(laughs) - I see it.

(both laugh) - This.

See that?

- Yeah.

- Is a more gradual turn and then I'll show you how to go backwards.

- Okay.

- Lift up at the hip.

Up at the hip.

Lemme go backwards.

So I put it at the hip up, back, back, back.

It's pretty intuitive.

So you're gonna follow me?

- Yes.

Okay, I'm gonna try.

- Play follow the leader?

- Okay.

- I'll go slow.

(uplifting music) - This opens my eye up to like, okay, so I wanna stand up paddle board, I wanna kayak, Like it's not impossible at all.

- No!

- Yeah.

- Hit me.

(both laugh) Close.

- Today was just awesome.

Thank you for this experience and like everything that you do to get more people like me out here.

- I'm so grateful for the opportunity to share the Bronze Chapter, and share kayaking, and share the water, and just hang with you.

- Thank you.

(laughs) (uplifting music) Hear more about this episode on the Out & Back with Allison Mariella Desir podcast.

Just search Out & Back wherever you listen.

- [Man] Fleet Feet is on a mission to inspire the runner in everyone.

And is proud to sponsor Crosscut's Out & Back with Allison Mariella Desir.