Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪ Opening music ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> Well, good evening, and welcome to Making It Grow.

We're very glad that you can join us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty, and I'm a Clemson Extension agent.

And I get to come and be with my friend and co-host Terasa Lott who is a...Oh, I always get it wrong.

Terasa say it the correct way.

(laugh) >> I am officially the Midlands District Director.

Amanda> Okay.

>> and, you know, we talk about being here is sort of a continuing education opportunity for us and continuing it is something that we promote, among our extension agents, Recently, some of our livestock and forages team, traveled to a beef improvement conference so that they could stay up to date and help those who are in the beef production industry.

Amanda> Well, that's really cool.

I hope they learned a lot and enjoyed the trip.

Terasa> Yes, and mostly that they'll be able to bring it back and to help those, the clients here in South Carolina.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, that's wonderful, wonderful news.

Christopher Burke, you're down there in Berkeley, Dorchester, in Charleston.

Christopher> That is correct.

Amanda> Okay.

And, gosh, that place I don't know, first of all, the traffic going down there is pretty fierce.

>> It is and it's getting pretty fierce within the counties themselves.

they're building just so much and unfortunately, the counties are only so big, so.

And the roads aren't really being updated, but, it's exciting to see all these new people.

It really is.

but unfortunately, you know, traffic is kind of the price to pay.

Amanda> Yup.

Yup.

and also, you know, I worry about the deer because they're already, you know, so many problems with people having issues with deer and, I mean, where are they going to be now?

I feel like we'll have more deer on the roadsides, probably more incidents than we did in the past.

Christopher> Well, we're already seeing that.

specifically in gardens.

I mean, some of the places like Mount Pleasant in the, kind of around there, people can't plant almost anything.

I mean, I've had some people claim that deer nibbling on oleander at this point.

They're getting so desperate.

So, it's one of those things that I unfortunately think something has to come to a head.

But, yeah, we're seeing deer just kind of exploding.

Amanda> Philip Carnly, you're the Ag agent, the commercial hort agent for Orangeburg and Dorchester and, ...I've heard I was talking to somebody and he said that they have problems with deer and farm equipment running into them sometimes.

Phillip> Well, you can have issues with, deer in fields and, with combines.

and corn and cotton in particular.

but we do have a large, problem with the deer population right now.

and cotton, soybeans and peanuts.

Yeah, specifically soybeans.

Amanda> Yeah, I'm sure they like soybeans.

Phillip> Early cotton planting plants, too, when the cotton's young and tender.

And has it become more woody they will decimate cotton in the early stages of growth.

Amanda> Gosh!

Well, just conflicts between nature and and people, I guess.

Anyway, thank you for being here.

Phillip> It's my pleasure to be back.

Amanda> Thank you.

And Dr. John Nelson, the former curator and long time curator at the A.C. Moore Herbarium at the University of South Carolina and used to teach classes and field botany.

And I was fortunate enough to sneak in one of them, one time Dr. John> You were one of my favorites.

But, you know, I've got something to say about deer also.

You know, I like to go out and collect plants here and there and a lot of times just out in the country.

And not in a pretty necessarily special place.

Last weekend I was out and I was actually in Orangeburg County.

I remember, like, pulling over on the side of the road right before a bridge so I could get out and look at the aquatic plants... Amanda> Oh, sure.

Dr. John> And there's a dead deer like that I'm parked on, you know.

And they're very frequently, and especially for some reason, along, bridges.

I think sometimes people get rid of a deer carcass by just throwing that out of the trunk or whatever.

Amanda> Well, the, Oh, I've got to tell you something.

we're going to have a really fun trip to Rivendell Farms, which is really cool, and the name you'll enjoy here and how they got the name as well.

And, that was a good trip for us to take.

So, Terasa, I bet you've got some gardens of the week for us.

Terasa> I do.

So this is our time to take a virtual field trip.

Thanks to you, our wonderful viewers who submit photographs of what you're doing in your yard, your gardens, or maybe some beautiful places in our great state of South Carolina.

Today we begin with Beth Heatley, who shared a tropical looking scene with curcuma species, hostas, and on the right, African blood lily, which is in the genus Scadoxus.

I believe, is how you say it.

From Janet and Richard Taylor, a garden space prominently displaying daylilies and some garden wall decor.

Millie Pugh sent in what she describes as an afternoon in the garden in Prosperity, South Carolina.

It looks rather tranquil.

From Terri Looper, a very happy, as in, vigorous planting of Dusty Miller.

I don't think I've ever seen such a massive planting of that one plant in a particular location.

Very neat, Terri.

And last but not least, Karen Woodard, who reports she is patiently waiting for the tomatoes to ripen.

So we see that green fruit.

And Karen, if you would send us all a ripe tomato once they ripen, we can enjoy a fresh, BLT, but we will not discuss, you know, the proper, mayo, Miracle Whip brand.

We'll just let you enjoy whatever you like.

Amanda> That is a hot topic in some families.

Terasa> It is.

Even bread, I hear there are people have preferences to the bread you put it in.

Amanda> Oh, la, la.

Goodness gracious.

And you know what I've started doing Terasa, is when I cook bacon, I'll cook a whole pound or a pound and a half of whatever, and I saved the, the grease to make cornbread with.

And then I put it in the freezer and when we want to have a BLT.

We've got it there.

And because, you know, it's a lot you know, that's usually something you really want on a hot day and you're tired.

And if you got to fry the bacon up, that just takes forever, it seems, yeah.

And then you get the save all that bacon grease for cornbread.

Terasa> Mmmm.

Sounds good.

Makes my mouth water.

Amanda> And we've got so many different places in South Carolina that are milling cornmeal and delicious ones.

Terasa> Yes.

Amanda> Yep.

All righty.

Well, is there someone that we can help?

Terasa> You know, absolutely, there is.

We're going to try to help Pauline in Beaufort, who said A friend recently gifted her a coffee plant.

Can you tell me how to take care of it?

And will it survive the winter?

Amanda> Well, Beaufort's a little warmer than some places, but I don't know.

Christopher, what do you think?

Christopher> So this must have been a very popular gift idea, because I also got one, about six months ago, and I re-potted it into a bigger container, because it was in a very small container.

but this is a tropical to subtropical plant.

Generally, it's not going to really like any temperatures below 50 degrees.

Amanda> Ooh, you got to take... you'll have to be bringing... Christopher> So, unfortunately it's going to be a little bit of a challenge.

So, this is... it's really a small shrub.

So this is one of those that it takes about 3 to 4 years in order to actually get any types of flowers or fruits.

And one plant is really not going to yield a significant amount in order to actually make coffee.

Amanda> You might get one cup of coffee.

Christopher> That being said, it's a very attractive indoor plant or semi-indoor plant and so plenty of water.

Don't let it dry out for too long.

Amanda> But how big is it going to get?

Christopher> It kind of depends on the container you keep it in.

So, the bigger the container, the bigger it's going to get.

Dr. John> It looks sort of like a gardenia.

Christopher> It...well, it's closely related to it.

They're both in the, Rubiaceae family.

So very closely.

So the flowers are actually nice and fragrant, which is nice for when it does flower.

It takes a couple of years to get to it.

That being said, if you're like me and you don't necessarily want to wait 3 to 4 years and of course keep it bringing it in and out, you can do some alternatives, which I of course, selected.

One of my favorite shrubs that people can grow, is actually a Camellia sinensis.

and if you're familiar with, taxonomy, you know, that is, of course, the tea plant.

And so tea is something that can be grown pretty much through most of kind of that temperate regions.

and South Carolina being home to one of the first, tea plantations, this is a awesome, awesome plant for kind of semi, woody areas.

It's going to, of course, do really well for a little bit of shade, but it's one of those that also is going to be very tolerant of kind of a wide range of issues.

Making tea is a little bit difficult.

So you always want to go for that new growth.

Amanda> Oh.

Christopher> And you want to make sure you harvest the new growth and of course allow that new growth to dry out.

So whether you're cooking it, whether you're drying it out other ways, it can be a little bit challenging, but it is an awesome shrub to grow.

And of course, a great source of that caffeine that coffee will provide Amanda> Or pollinators like it?

Christopher> Not necessarily as they don't go crazy for it.

So if you want an alternative that is going to be good for the pollinators.

Amanda> Oh.

Christopher> This one's a little bit harder to tell.

This is Yaupon holly, Ilex vomitoria.

This is one of our native species of hollies.

Of course, it does not have the spines that some of the other ones do.

Very easy to grow.

Awesome one to include in your garden.

And of course, that new growth can be harvested and made into a tea similar to the, Camellia sinensis.

So, it is definitely an excellent one to include, though I'm not necessarily going out and making tea with it because the birds are going to go crazy for the berries.

And of course the pollinators are going to go crazy for the flowers, but it is a cool one to include.

if you ever get the hankering for some caffeine in your garden.

Amanda> John.

if you want to have the berries, don't you have to be real careful with hollies of what you're getting, the male and female?

Dr. John> Generally, they're either male plants or female plants.

And of course, unless you have some kind of special magic going on, it's the females that make the berries.

Amanda> So you'd have, need to have one of each, I guess, if you want to do it... or have a male and some females and you know, Phillip, I've been reading some when I was thinking about, Inkberry holly, we were talking about that and we were saying that, the pollen that they make is also very critical for some of the pollinators.

So maybe you should try to have a couple of males and not just one Phillip> For good pollination, if you're looking for berries, you definitely want more than one male to the female.

That way it ensures you get good cross pollination, and it's like that with a lot of different fruits as well.

you want more than one colonizer, so you'd ensure a good fruit set.

Amanda> Really?

Okay, cool.

Goodness.

Such a lot to keep up with if you want to get something, isn't it?

Dr. John> It's complicated.

Amanda> It's a beautiful specimen plant.

I think.

Christopher> It really is.

And, when...when it's in full berry for the females, I mean, it's quite, quite an attractive winter specimen.

So it's something that will give that winter interest.

And so I think it's worth it and of course, when it's just in full growth, I mean, it's a great hedge.

I mean, you get up to 8 to 10ft tall.

It's nice and full.

It really has few issues.

So I definitely think Yaupon is one of those kind of unsung heroes of the garden.

Amanda> So John, we've got Yaupon Holly and then there's Cassine Holly and I've always thought Yaupon had almost a translucent kind of berry.

But what's the difference between Yaupon and Cassine?

And is there really any difference?

Dr. John> Well there are different species and the leaves are totally different.

Amanda> Oh they are?

Dr. John> Well Cassine, Cassine holly it's got a much larger leaf than...Yaupon.

Amanda> Okay.

Dr. John> I was going to say also that outside the, herbarium building in Columbia, there's a weeping Yaupon, At least that's what it looks like to me.

I mean, it's ten feet tall and weeps, you know, branches.

Terasa> I wonder how they spent the whole show just talking about hollies.

I mean...it's a fascinating group.

and there are some hollies that are deciduous, so... Dr. John> Yeah.

Terasa>...some of them...we, people probably think about American holly and being evergreen, but we've got.

Ilex decidua is one of the deciduous hollies.

Amanda> American holly, the tree form is just exquisitely beautiful and the bark is so attractive.

Kind of the grayish blue, Dr. John> Smooth.

Amanda> Yeah.

Phillip> Very elephantine Amanda> Elephantine.

(laughs) What a wonderful way to describe it.

Thank you.

And I'm sure that there are lots of things that like it, you know, and will enjoy it.

I don't think there's some at Swan Lake.

And I noticed that.

I think it's kind of the last thing that the birds eat though...the berries.

Terasa> You know, they're, I think and I am not an expert when it comes to birds, but, they need a combination of fats and carbohydrates and at different times of the year, they're more or less important.

So they may go for something like earlier in the season and then something else later in the season.

so that's my very simple answer to a much more complicated topic.

Amanda> That was...

I've never heard that.

Thank you so much for telling me that.

Yeah.

Goodness gracious.

Ilex, a complicated species.

Well, Terasa.

Terasa> Glenna in Orangeburg is having a problem with her tomatoes, and I bet she's not the only one.

She says they look fine.

The plants look fine, but they're not making any tomatoes.

Is there anything I can do to force them to produce fruit?

Amanda> Go out there and scold them.

You bad, bad tomato.

Terasa> We laugh, but really, I mean, this question is a is a pretty popular question about fruit or, you know, in general, how do I make it produce fruit?

Amanda> It's not just throwing more fertilizer on it at all?

Phillip> No, it's a lot more complicated than just fertilizer or fertility.

Usually plants have are like people and like in previous episodes.

They're like Goldilocks.

They want that just right... condition or climatic condition.

And right now, heat is our big issue.

when plant, when we get too hot, we sweat.

Amanda> Yeah.

Phillip> When plants are particularly tomatoes get too hot, they abort their flowers, which abort fruit.

Amanda> Oh, because they just know they can't support them?

Phillip> They know it's not worth supporting because the resources are not available to, further the species, so to speak, or reproduce.

so and, and I might have mentioned this prior, but, shade is your friend late in the summer for gardening.

You want as, as much afternoon shade as possible, early morning, when we're still kind of cool.

in comparison to late afternoon is the best.

Amanda> Now, is the pollen rendered infertile when it's real hot at night sometimes?

Phillip> So at certain, at certain species of garden plants?

Certain, their pollen is infertile after, certain set of temperatures.

I'm not exactly sure what it is on for, for tomato.

but, unlike some of the other fruits and vegetables we deal with, it will just abort the whole flower and it will drop the flower.

Amanda> Now, I think the structure of the plant is such that the pollen would fall down on the female.

But doesn't it...if they can get a pollinator to come to some kind of weird bird pot-... Can you talk about that?

Phillip> So.

Yeah.

Phillip> So bees do, pollinate tomatoes?

and they do it by a process called sonication, where, where they will grab a hold of the, of the bloom and, and just violently buzz.

Amanda>So they're not flap... they're using their wing muscles.

Phillip> Correct.

And and... and that's how Bumblebee got the name.

(buzzes) Amanda> Okay.

Phillip> it will buzz or vibrate very, very vigorously and and cause that pollen to drop and fertilize the flower.

which they are so fertile, which is quite nice.

Most, most tomatoes self pollinate.

Amanda> Oh.

So you don't have to worry about somebody coming and going to a whole another plant right now.

Phillip> Right.

Unless you're looking for specific qualities and then you become a amateur plant breeder.

(all laugh) Amanda> Well I think just getting of tomatoes that you can eat is challenging enough.

Phillip> It can...

It can definitely be a, huge challenge.

Amanda> So do we have commercial tomato production in South Carolina that kind of shuts down in the middle of the summer or how does that work?

Phillip> Usually we have two seasons for tomato production in South Carolina.

We have a spring season early summer.

and a fall season.

we try to eliminate that middle of the year, hot summer season, if possible, because of the abortion of flowers, Amanda> Yeah.

>> off of the tomato plants, but also an increase in disease pressure and insect pressure, which makes it entirely more difficult to set a good crop.

Amanda> So when do they plant for the second, for the fall crop?

Phillip> It depends on the, the variety that's planted, whether it's a slicer, a paste or, or one of those other varieties, larger varieties, because of maturity dates.

Some, the large slicing type tomatoes for home garden usually mature in that 60 to 85 degree -85 day range.

>> whereas some of the pace tomatoes are in that 40 to 45 day range, Amanda> They're easier to grow?

Phillip> In the fall?

Yes, absolutely.

We have less, less heat issues, less transpiration.

So watering or irrigating is not as big of a...of a factor.

but we still have disease in the fall and that's different than spring.

Amanda> So the commercial producers today generally do the pace ones or does it just vary?

Phillip> So it varies based on, on the size of the operation.

Several large commercial producers will do Romas, or a which is a paste, tomato, for tomato paste and canned tomatoes, diced tomatoes, that sort of thing.

And then your smaller, more fresh market growers... Amanda> Oh, of course >> will do.

They will do cherry tomatoes, paste and slicers.

So we get a, we get a really good mix of different tomatoes, throughout South Carolina.

Amanda> Terasa, Edward is such an old fogy and he likes his tomatoes peeled, and it's just a pain in the neck to peel tomatoes.

The peel is perfectly delicious to me, but.

Have y'all ever had family members, who would talk about...?

Dr. John>You're supposed to dunk them in hot water.

Just boiled the water.

Amanda> Well, that's just that's if you want to, you know, like, make ketchup or something.

But, I mean, if you want to just a slice of tomato, Phillip> Personal preference, I guess I've always just sliced them and a little bit of salt and pepper and a good tomato sandwich is not a bad thing.

Dr. John> Peel is good for you.

Amanda> Okay.

Christopher> I mean, that's where all the fiber is.

Dr. John> Oh, yeah.

Amanda> Oh.

Well, anyway... Terasa> Personal preferences, right?

Dr. John> Yeah.

(all laugh) Amanda> Well, Terasa, let's move on.

Terasa> This one comes in from Sharon in Society Hill.

She said we're growing morning glories and hanging baskets and we love them.

But there's something that looks similar with big white flowers at the edge of the woods.

Is this a wild form of what we're growing?

And she, she did send along a picture for it.

Amanda> Okay.

Oh, John.

Dr. John> A John question.

Amanda> Yeah, I think this is for you.

Dr. John> I think I know this one, too.

She's growing.

Surely, She's growing some, beautiful, cultivated Morning glory.

That is... brightly colored and purple and pink.

Amanda> Been selected to do that for people.

Dr. John> Pretty easy to grow.

Amanda> Okay.

Dr. John> But these, in the picture, she clearly has taken, taken a picture of what they call, I think they call it "Man-of-the-Earth" or Manroot.

It's a native morning glory.

And the name of it is Ipomea pandurata.

So all of the morning glories of the world, the true Morning glories belong to this genus Ipomea.

Amanda> Okay.

Dr. John> That's the same genus that gives us, our beloved sweet potato.

Amanda> Whew!

Dr. John> Have you ever grown sweet potatoes for their flowers, you'll see they look...they're morning glories, basically.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah, Dr. John> But this native one that she's got is, a widespread, especially in the coastal plain.

And it's really a wonderful plant, but it doesn't get off the ground generally.

Sometimes it'll climb a little bit, but I like the flowers because they're so big and they've got a... Amanda> They're showy.

Dr. John> Oh, yeah.

And they've got a kind of floppy flowers.

And down in the middle we see that there's a, a reddish purple, sweet purple in the middle.

Amanda> If you can go in and look at one.

Dr. John> They're very.

And the bees like them too, bumblebees.

And that's fine.

I've done this.

Oh, no.

You watch and an old bee will go down (laughs) inside the flower and you close it up.

Amanda> Yeah.

That's fun to do.

Yeah, I like to do that.

(buzzes) Dr. John> So, they're so easy to be entertained when you're a botanist.

Amanda> Ahhh!

(laughs) Terasa> To be entertained.

Dr. John> To be.

To be.

When you're not too busy.

Some of the Morning glory species can be problematic in agriculture.

Bind bindweed.

Phillip> Yes.

We, we seek out a few.

Amanda> So these are.. these are not native ones?

Phillip> Most of them are introduced.

We do have some that are... do become problematic.

specifically for corn and agronomic crops, on field corn, in the field edges.

It grows up the stocks quite nicely.

and it clogs the header of your combine.

Amanda> Oh, no >> causes issues that way.

Amanda> Come on.

Dr. John> And two of those, agra-, agro- What was the term?

Phillip> Agronomic?

Dr. John> Agronomic aspect of morning glories?

Two of them are, red and they have tubular corollas.

Cypress vines.

So one of them, cypress vines- Amanda> Don't let anybody plant that in your yard.

Dr. John> Those and there's a second one that has more heart shaped leaves.

But those are both from South America.

Amanda> Boy, I, I've seen places where it just goes wild.

Yeah.

Dr. John> But the butterflies like that too.

Amanda> Well, they can, you can plant something else there.

Like, just as well.

How about that?

I would think so.

Okay.

Okay.

We met a good friend a couple of years ago, and, she was taking us around some cool places and it turns out that she has a pretty cool place herself.

And that is at Rivendell Farms.

(gentle music) ♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> I'm talking to Margo Huggins.

We are in Williston, South Carolina, and she has a...farmette.

And the name of this enterprise is Margo> Rivendell Farms.

Amanda> And I think that is something that refers, is talked about a lot in The Hobbit.

Margo> Yep.

Tol- It's not a nod to Tolkien.

A lot of people think it is.

But where we started this, my husband and I, was when we lived on Rivendell Drive in Lexington.

So that's actually where the name came from.

And then people continuously were like, oh, and saying things to me out of The Hobbit.

And I would look at them like, I don't know what you're talking about, but one day I will read the book, all of the books.

Amanda> but again, you describe this as a farmette.

And so, what do you mean by farmette?

Margo> Farmette, to me means a very small farm.

I work in big agriculture.

I work for a company called Americot, and I provide NextGen cotton seed to large row crop growers.

And I've done this for almost two decades.

I've worked in big agriculture.

So, you know, I go to thousand acre farms, so I can't in good faith call what we're doing here on this quarter acre, a farm, especially because it's not our main source of income.

It's what we do as a side hustle or hobby to, you know, it brings us joy.

But it also is bringing in some money too, to help pay for itself.

Amanda> And I think at first, like many people, you were growing vegetables because we all love vegetables out of the garden.

But a lot of people around you are doing that.

And I think you found a way to specialize.

So what have you kind of centered in on as your specialty?

Margo> We are growing tons of cut flowers now.

And it's wonderful.

And yes, we did start.

We actually started, my husband and I, we started dating with just a four by eight raised garden bed in our backyard, and it is...exploded to almost a quarter acre, now that we grow flowers and fillers and all those great things.

Amanda> And there's... a season, two seasons, you have kind of the early cool season flowers and then the summer flowers.

So, tell me what you have in each grouping.

Margo> So a lot of folks don't understand the timing of flowers or flowers, in general.

So we plant cool season flowers at the end of September, direct seed them or we plant plugs and transplant them in and they sit in the ground all winter long, and those are the things that come off for Mother's Day.

We also plant tulips and they're planted here as annuals.

So we get them in and we have to chill them.

And then we plant them around Christmas time.

And they're the first things that will come off for us, usually in March.

and then the season moves on, you know, March, tulips, Mother's Day, the things that we planted in September come off and then we get into our really warm season flowers, the, the frost intolerance things that lots of folks know.

Amanda> Yeah.

You've got giant cone flowers, which I love.

You had phlox There isn't anything more glorious than phlox.

Margo> I know.

Yeah.

And, we plant a lot of perennials as well.

For filler, we've got some eucalyptus growing and mahogany splendor and a lot of this stuff I was able to start from seed, so it's a really fun process.

Amanda> And then you've got herbs.

Margo> We do, Yes.

I grow a lot of basil.

Amanda> Yes.

Margo> We do.

We use basil as filler, but we also make our own pesto.

So we freeze it and we have it all year round.

Amanda> Then you've got a funky kind of purple leaf plant.

What was that?

Margo> Yeah, beefsteak plants but it's a weed, and it's wonderful for filler too.

Amanda> You've got what a lot of people call Queen Anne's Lace.

Margo> Yes, we do, and some different versions of that for filler.

It's really fun to use the whole entire crop season, because it'll produce a really pretty flower and then sort of dry down to this interesting filler.

Amanda> I think you found out that some of your grandparents or somebody once had a farm devoted to one flower, and you've got some of that here now too?

Margo> Yes, ma'am.

So, my paternal grandparents actually had a business where they grew Gladioulus, and I didn't know that until two years ago.

We've been doing this flower farming journey for four years now, and I only found that out two years ago.

And I have their business paperwork.

It's...it's wonderful to have that.

And Gladioula is actually my favorite flower.

Amanda> Well, and I love the shorter varieties and particularly like it when they fall over and get some curves.

They don't have to be just straight up and down.

Margo> That's right.

And that's actually one of my favorite things about tulips too, because there's no rhyme or reason.

You just put a tulip in a vase and it will end up growing like three inches.

So it's really fun to watch flowers progress in their lives and, you know, to know when exactly to harvest them and what you need to pinch and what you can't pinch and what needs to go in a cooler and what absolutely can't go in a cooler.

There's a lot of intricate things to learn about flowers.

Amanda> Then you've got a second batch of sunflowers coming in, I believe.

Margo> Yes, ma'am.

Amanda> Okay.

Margo> Yeah, we succession plant sunflowers and zinnias, and we will every two weeks for the rest of the summer.

Amanda> Wow!

And you do this, like, every week or every other week.

You have some local farmers markets or things like that where you take them.

Margo> Yes, ma'am.

We, take to the Barnwell Farmers Market every other Saturday, and then oftentimes we'll take to, a little local coffee shop in Barnwell called Accelerator Coffee .

And we will tell people what we're doing on our Facebook page.

So if folks want to follow what we do, we try to get the kids really involved.

we want them to know how to grow things where their food comes from, and we like them to get dirty, too.

Amanda> Do the kids get excited about it?

Margo> It depends.

Amanda> Do they take bribes... Margo> No, I, I should get them to do that.

we did have a little competition on Facebook where I had them each make an arrangement and put them on there, and then let the Internet vote.

And actually, my daughter won.

So, my five and a half year old won.

So I was pretty excited about that.

Amanda> That's lots of fun.

Margo> It is.

Amanda> Well, I just think this is great fun.

You've got, some chickens over there.

We could hear them.

(mimics chicken sounds) So you get the, I think the little girls go and gather eggs for you.

Margo> They do.

They finally... That's their chore.

They get eggs.

We hope they don't break them when they get back to the house.

Amanda> Well, it seems like a delightful way for these little gals to grow up, and, y'all having a lot of fun.

And it's a way for you to, relax after traveling a fairly large area.

Margo> Yes.

Amanda>...to come home and just enjoy this wonderful little place.

Y'all have here... Margo> It is it's where I center myself and then find God often enough.

So it's a wonderful, tiny slice of heaven here that we've created.

My favorite time of the day is the golden hour.

You know, especially in the summertime when it's brutally hot out and I'm fully sweating.

And know I'm going to get in the shower real soon.

But just those last few minutes of light out there is an incredible experience.

Amanda> Well, we're so glad that you found your way to South Carolina and Williston, Margo> Me too.

Amanda> Thank you for letting us come.

Margo> Thank you for being here.

♪ ♪ Amanda> We had a good time down there, and, those little girls were great at collecting eggs, and apparently they don't break very many of them.

(laughs) A great day.

So hats, hats, hats So, Terasa, it's kind of a hard time of the year to find stuff, but there was a lot of echinacea.

That's just such an easy thing.

And I know a lot of these look kind of droopy, and, you know, the petals were kind of going off.

But I wanted to remind people that you don't want to de-head them because that the cone, this is just full of seeds, isn't it?

Terasa> Yeah.

And, Dr. John could give a botany lesson about, ray flowers and disc flowers and all that kind of stuff, but, and sometimes people will say, well, if I don't deadhead it, then it might, the season is short.

So maybe you can, find some sort of in between where you deadhead for a little while, but then you allow it to remain and go to seed so that it can be food for the birds.

And if you like watching birds in your yard, which is a popular activity, you'll enjoy watching them forage right there.

Amanda> Well, and when I was out, I was noticing that, these hadn't been cut back at all, and they were getting kind of tall, and there were new flowers coming up all around the stem.

They, I don't know if they're going to be as big, but...there's still a lot of warm weather left.

And, anyway, so I just put the droopy ones in here to remind people not to cut them off because, what's...what's the bird that likes it so much?

The goldfinch.

Yeah, yeah.

And then there was some phlox and, it used to be we couldn't grow phlox in South... down in my part of the world because you had to grow them in the mountains.

But I think they're new... it's been for forever.

They've got new ones that we can't grow here.

But it's a pretty plant, too.

Dr. John> You know, phlox is a really complicated genus, and there are a lot of species- Amanda> -of phlox?

Dr. John> Oh, yeah.

And in fact, there are some that in the Middle East that actually bloom in the nighttime.

Their flowers will open up at night.

It's pretty strange that they do that.

And there's some evidence that their early botanists were actually, looking at this nocturnal blooming.

There's a, you know, scientific enterprise and... and so even the Bible mentions that there were people out there or, you know, like hanging out with the sheep and guarding their flocks by night.

(laughter) Amanda> That's really pushing it too far.

Terasa> Oh, Dr. John.

Amanda> God... Whew, Terasa...it never stops.

(laughter) Terasa> I was wondering where we were going with all.. Dr. John> Yeah.

Terasa> Gardening their flocks.

Dr. John> At least.

Amanda> Oh...get out of here.

Well, Terasa, let's quickly move on to something else.

Terasa> Some more serious things.

Right.

Jacqueline, from Myrtle Beach said, I have this plant that's growing quite fast and I'm trying to find out what it is.

So we do have some pictures.

One of the apps I used, said it was Mulberry, but I'm not sure if that is right.

So she's asked for our expert opinion.

Amanda> Okay.

And it's growing very fast.

She sent the picture.

So we've... Christopher, what do you think when looking at this?

Christopher> So Mulberry is definitely correct.

Unfortunately, there are kind of two primary species that you're going to see all throughout.

So red mulberry, Morus rubra, is actually a native species of mulberry that grows really well in woodland areas.

It grows well in kind of partial shade, but white mulberry, which is an introduced species that is fairly aggressive.

definitely not one that I would particularly want to see.

I see it all over downtown Charleston.

That's one of those that is going to grow in full sun.

It cannot tolerate any type of shade.

Generally the best way to tell the difference and from the picture is it's kind of hard to tell from here, but it does look like that leaf's fairly glossy.

If it's really glossy, it's generally a white mulberry.

Amanda>Not the one that we want.

Christopher> No.

If it's kind of a dull color, then generally it's going to be considered the, red mulberry.

There are, of course, other plants called mulberries.

But as far as Morus goes, that's going to be your two main species.

And this one does look to be a white mulberry.

And seeing the sun reflected on there, my guess is, is it's probably on the edge of a, fairly, wooded area.

Amanda> Ah, and I think it was the white one was brought over here for potentially the silk industry or something.

Christopher> Yes, actually, that was... it was brought over here to feed silkworms.

And unfortunately, that never really took off.

Amanda>...here we had this Christopher> The white mulberry was left behind.

Phillip> And the fruit is delicious.

Amanda> On both.

Dr. John> On both.

Amanda> Yeah.

Christopher> Though the red one is much sweeter.

Amanda> And Terasa, we had one in a kind of a hedgerow that was partially shaded between us and, older lady who lived next door.

Celia..who was just lovely, and we would put the children up in the tree and put a sheet underneath it and shake it and, you know, collect the bears.

And she said, oh, my Lord, I think they're poisonous.

I think you could only feed them to the hogs.

But, they were I thought they were real good.

Have you all tasted them?

Terasa> I have never tasted a mulberry.

Phillip> It's a lot like a very sweet, less seedy blackberry.

Amanda> Yeah, less seedy too.

Yeah.

This is poking me in the head.

Let me get this wire out.

Gracious goodness.

Oh, hat's are enough trouble without them poking you in the head.

Phillip> But they're very soft, too, so they'll dye your fingertips and your lips and your tongue and all of your mouth purple.

Amanda> Well, and children think that's great fun.

Don't you think?

Phillip> It is.

It's quite fun.

Terasa> So be careful what you're wearing.

Phillip> Right.

You don't want to be picking mulberries in white.

(laughter) Amanda> I don't know how easy it is to get them out in the wash, but... Yeah, but, And I don't guess anybody sells them commercially, do you think?

Phillip> Well, there are certain nurseries that do sell cultivated varieties or named varieties of mulberry.

and they have been selectively chosen and named for their berry size, and productivity, as a commercial crop.

I don't know of anybody that grows them commercially for commercial production, but as a backyard homeowner, they're a very easy fruit to maintain, very resilient.

Amanda> But you've got to get have the children to put them in the tree.

Phillip> Well, and some of them have been bred for size or- Amanda>Okay.

Because, I mean, it wasn't a big tree, but it was.

Phillip> Oh, they get large.

Amanda> But it was over my head, for sure.

Phillip> The one thing as a homeowner I will caution you about is if you like fruit, you have to get up early because the birds will beat you to the fruit every time.

So either netting or some kind of deterrent, to keep the birds and animals away, is your best bet if you do have mulberries, Dr. John> If you do have mulberries, the birds are going to enjoy them, and then remind you about it on the windshield on your car.

Amanda> Oh (laughter) They leave their calling card.

Phillip> Yeah, absolutely do.

Amanda> That's fun.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, thanks for telling me there are some people who are out there planting them.

Yeah.

Isn't that cool?

I hadn't thought about those in a long time to eat.

We did enjoy them, and the children liked them too.

And our neighbor thought we were poisoning the children.

But she came around to see it our way.

Well, Terasa.

Terasa> This question comes in from where I reside.

Jillian from Darlington sent us a photograph.

She said I was sitting on my patio and I looked down to see this bug.

We have flowers and a vegetable garden.

Is this bug going to do damage?

Amanda> Well, Phillip not all bugs are bad, but what about this one?

Phillip> Not all bugs are bad.

This one, in this case, is green stink bug.

and like most stink bugs, they can cause a problem.

specifically in vegetable production, right now, Amanda> How is it they feed?

Phillip> So they have a piercing, sucking mouthpart, called a proboscis.

and it will penetrate, a fruit or vegetable to try and get it to seed of that fruit or vegetable.

Amanda> Ah.

Phillip> We're seeing some damage in peas right now from, piercing, sucking insects, stink bugs.

Amanda> You're not talking about garden peas.

You talk about southern peas.

Phillip> Southern peas.

Correct.

Southern pea, cow pea, or your field pea.

It goes by all three names, which is quite, funny at times to think about it, because, nobody calls them cow peas anymore except the few people of the older generation.

But we're seeing damage from stink bugs, and it has a very close cousin called the Brown marmorated stink bug, which we see right now as well.

which causes a lot more, agronomic problems or prefer the agronomic crops corn, cotton, soybeans and peanuts.

but we see it in vegetable crops, as well.

And specifically, the worst affected one, that I've seen right now is okra.

Amanda> Okra!

>> It loves... Stink bugs.

Love okra this time of year in the heat, because okra is very heat tolerant, so there's a lot of moisture.

Amanda> It's still producing.

>> And it's very productive.

Amanda> Yeah.

Goodness gracious.

you know, a couple of years ago, I was growing some red okra and, it was incredibly productive.

And then half towards it and halfway through it started having stink buds, horribly, so much worse than the green okra.

And then at the end of the year, when I was cleaning the stuff out of the garden, the green okra had really stunted roots from nematode damage, and the red okra didn't, which I guess is why it was so much more productive.

But isn't that just funny how from variety to variety, things can be so different.

Have you run into any of that?

Phillip> So we...will use, okra as an indicator species of nematode populations.

In the summertime, if we don't send off a nematode assay to a.... a lab, it is a great indicator because most of your okras don't have any kind of nematode resistance, whatsoever.

and so you get to see those very defined root nodules.

Amanda> Yeah.

Phillip> from sting and, stunt nematode.

We do send them off for testing for, Guava root-knot nematode It is a quarantine...nematode Amanda> That's that new one that's- Phillip> Yes.

Amanda> Really...devastating.

Phillip> It is in parts of South Carolina.

It has not reached, the Midlands yet, but we...if in, when in doubt, plant okra to see what your nematode population is like.

And then you can send that off to have those nematodes ID'd Amanda> And Christopher, I think that, you know, we can go and look when we get tomatoes, we can get VSN, I mean, they're these different numbers, letters after sometime and one of them is N, sometimes, and that meant that they had some resistance to nematodes.

But I think this new guava one, none of that's going to work with them I don't think Christopher> So most of your nematode resistance that you're seeing is usually for southern root knot nematode.

For the most part, the guava nematode is pretty much if it's there, you have to then go through again the process of trying to mitigate that.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much that's resistant to it.

Amanda> Goodness, And, Teresa, when people would bring nematode samples in, it was kind of complicated because it wasn't like just sending off a soil test.

What all do you have to do?

One of you tell us.

Phillip> Well, for a nematode assay specifically, you collect it like you would have soil test, but you have to- Amanda> -go around to different places, >> go around to different places.

and usually what we find is in low organic situations.

So, high sands, we find a lot more nematodes, because there's,...

I assume it's because there's less predation on the nematodes, but other parasitic nematodes or non-parasitic.

Amanda> So they're good and bad- >> So there are good and bad... nematodes.

And in higher organics you have a lot more competition.

So, those populations tend to decrease naturally.

But, you would take that sample.

There's a special nematode assay bag, which is white, and it's, more waxy than the, soil sample bag.

And that's to keep an acceptable level of moisture to keep the nematodes alive.

Amanda> Oh, because they've got to be alive for you to count them.

Phillip> Correct.

And you want to try to, maintain that temperature below 85 degrees.

So don't let don't leave the soil, samples sitting in your truck for nematode assays, or you'll kill everything.

Amanda> Gosh.

And I don't know, but if it gets on the mail trucks ...it might- Phillip> -and sometimes that does happen.

Amanda> Yeah, gosh!

Dr. John> I remember, for a while there, people were talking about, oh, nematodes in the garden.

And one of the ways that they would attempt to control them would be like, put a plastic sheet over the garden and then pump, some horrible, bromine, Phillip> Methyl bromide was...was, was a soil fumigate, we used a lot... and watermelon production specifically, to kill fungus nematodes.

Dr. John> They'll kill anything.

Phillip> Oh, yeah.

It was... it was an excellent.

It was excellent for what it did, and that has since been, taken off the market, for quite a while.

I think the one of the only uses it has now is for fumigating, shipping containers.

Amanda> Oh, because so many things come into the country, plants coming in... Doug...down there, I've heard people go to people who have nurseries, say they find all kinds of things.

Christopher> So.

Oh, yeah, you have to be very careful.

And of course, yeah, being down by the coast, we have a port very close to us.

They, they watch those.

Anything coming in very closely.

but plants specifically, I mean, we have a whole whole sector of Clemson that just goes around and does plant inspections, nursery inspections, because you have to really watch out easy enough to spread things.

Amanda> John, Eric Shealy, your friend and our friend too at Riverbank Zoo and Garden said they've had, they've got a lot of tropical things and they've got things in their greenhouse that aren't native here.

I mean, like little frogs and things that have come in on some tropical plants, I believe.

Dr. John>...it's not a big surprise that, little critters can hide amongst foliage of, of, tropical plants that are being marketed and such, and moved around the country and doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to persist in...their new home.

But this is one of the big reasons that it's, it's so dangerous to have or such a good way for a lot of introduced pests to show up and start spreading it around.

Amanda> Oh, goodness.

Well... thank you.

Terasa...kind of a bummer question.

Terasa> I don't think this one will be a bummer.

Martha from Awendaw.

sent in some pictures, she said, our home overlooks the marsh, and we have these little trees that are growing to form a thicket.

They are very spiny and they make berries that are black.

Is this native or should I get rid of them?

Amanda> John, what is this?

Dr. John> Oh, I hope that...

Her pictures are nice.

I hope that Martha will leave the plants alone.

Amanda> Oh, okay.

Dr. John> Because this is a native species, and it is sort of a mostly coastal plain, but not entirely.

Amanda> What is it called?

Dr. John> It's called Bully bush.

Amanda> Bully bush?

Because it's got stickers on it?

Dr. John> It's got stickers.

They're pretty serious stickers.

That's a common name, I know.

It probably has a few others, but this is a member of, Amanda> Maybe some you couldn't say on television, but.

Dr. John> Yes.

This is a member of a of a fairly small family, at least around here, it's a much larger family, the Sapotaceae in the, in the tropics.

This particular one, in a lot of the books.

You'll see.

This one is Bumelia.

And I think that even a lot of horticulturists know it is Bumelia, whatever, whatever.

But, most of the Bumelia species have been transferred.

Another name change...to the genus Sideroxylon.

So this one is, a really pretty one called, Sideroxylon tenax And it's, I'm especially fond of the leaves because they're, bright green above on a shiny upper surface.

And then down on below, it's sort of a pretty rusty, fuzzy fuzzy situation.

Amanda> So are they deciduous?

Kind of semi-?

Dr. John> Partially deciduous.

They do make flowers, small flowers.

They are flowering plants, (laughter) Amanda> But the flowers aren't spectacular.

Dr. John> No, they're small.

Amanda> Somebody enjoys them.

Dr. John> And the birds love their fruits.

Amanda> Oh.

Do they?

Dr. John> I've tried one or two.

They weren't... they weren't my... they weren't for me.

But the, but it is,...

They make fruits.

Amanda> We're glad that you're not a bird brain.

Dr. John> Yeah, well, I don't know about that, but, it's a nice thing to have.

Christopher> And, one of the things I wanted to note was the fact that it created a thicket.

Thickets are actually incredibly important for birds out on the... but nesting and reproducing, and so that idea that it's creating a thicket is actually incredibly important.

Amanda> Oh, because it's going to protect the birds from things that might want to slither up and eat all their babies.

Yeah, yeah.

Terasa> And another interesting tidbit from the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center.

Apparently it was discovered in South Carolina by Alexander Garden.

It says that he sent a specimen to Linnaeus who named it in 1767.

Amanda> Whoa!

Dr. John> There you go.

Amanda> We're the history state, aren't we?

That's fun.

(laughter) Yeah, well, that was cool to get that one.

Thank you so much, Terasa What else can we do?

Terasa> How about Priscilla in Abbeville?

Who said she's got a shady area in her yard and she wants to plant a fern garden, but she doesn't know much, and she would love some guidance.

And then she asked some questions.

What about Autumn ferns?

Or how about Holly ferns?

Amanda> Oh, Christopher,...you, we just think of ferns as kind of innocuous, but some of them, one of them isn't.

So what advice can you give her?

Christopher> So.

And I, of course wanted to bring one of those.

So this is the... infamous Autumn fern.

And, as you can likely try to tell, Autumn ferns are called Autumn ferns because generally they're going to have kind of that bronze new growth.

And of course, as it gets closer to, to Autumn, oftentimes they will kind of do some slight color change.

Amanda> -which people find attractive.

Christopher> Exactly.

And they're, they're evergreen fern.

So for the most part they're easy to grow.

They they generally are going to do extremely well in most conditions provided it's shady.

The biggest issue with Autumn ferns and really specifically Holly ferns are a lot of these introduced ferns is ferns tend to kind of fill a very specific ecological niche.

And so usually when we're talking about plants like these that have been around for millions of years, they are going to grow in very specialized areas.

In Autumn, ferns, unfortunately, as an introduced species, is going to take advantage of that because this is a very adaptable species that is going to be able to grow in areas that, frankly, these other plants are the only ones that grow in.

And so Autumn ferns... Amanda> ...makes room for them.

Christopher> Autumn ferns are choking them out.

So while, Autumn ferns and Holly ferns aren't necessarily listed as invasive or even considered invasive, it is one of those that I try to discourage as much as possible.

As attractive as it is, and I understand it's definitely, a nice one for that fern garden, it is worth looking into the myriad of native species of ferns.

Amanda> Tell us which ones she might.

Christopher> There's lots of different ones.

One of my favorites, of course, I wanted to include is, of course, aptly named The Christmas Fern.

It's one of our evergreen ferns.

that, of course, is going to produce, lots of nice foliage.

and of course, is going to provide even some of those kind of unique colorations in the fronds.

Another one that we have is the Cinnamon fern.

Amanda> Oh, that has such wonderful reproducing spikes.

Christopher> Exactly.

So, there's so many different types.

And again, this is just a couple of them that I actually can find at local nurseries.

And fortunately, local nurseries don't always have the best selection of our native ferns.

So it's always kind of worth looking into.

But I will say this Christmas fern was not hard to find, and probably a good one to start with, but I would tend to avoid this autumns and those hollies.

Amanda> And John, I think ferns have two different ways of reproducing, like some people say they call up and say, they're these horrible things on the back of my fern leaf, but that's not that bad.

Dr. John> Well, the fern is trying to have babies.

Amanda> Okay.

Which is fun.

Dr. John> So, yeah, that's... Amanda> They're not going to get the mulberry tree, but still, you know.

(laughter) Dr. John> They, that's there's a little specks or spots or sometimes they occur in lines on the bottom of a fern leaf.

Those are where the spores are being produced.

Amanda> So don't get upset if this is the fact.

Dr. John> Yeah.

Don't try to spray them for some kind of insect.

Terasa> I have some on the back of, on the back of this.

Christopher> Oh, yeah.

Amanda> Oh yeah.

Dr. John> Very prominent.

Amanda> Yeah.

On that one that we don't want to be Sporulating all over the...all over... Terasa> Exactly!

Dr. John> Each one of those little dots, each one of those little dots.

I don't know if I told you all in the, in your class is called a sorus.

Amanda> Okay.

Dr. John> S-O-R-U-S Amanda> It's kind of complicated, and I think we have 10 seconds left, so we have to say goodbye.

We'll see you next week.

(closing music) ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

Mcleod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.