Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪ ♪ ♪ > Well, good evening, and welcome to Making It Grow .

We sure are glad that you can be with us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty, and I'm a Clemson Extension Agent.

I'm here with my co-host and fellow Clemson person, although not an agent.

Terasa, you are in charge of the Midlands District, and that's a lot of people that you try to help, stay on task and you try to help them if they're having any problems too.

> I do, that's right.

So my official capacity is District Director, and that's to oversee the extension offices in the Midlands District, nine counties from Lancaster down to Orangeburg, wrapping over to Richland and Lexington.

But we've got a wonderful staff and they are all devoted to sharing research based information and education in their various program areas, with the citizens of the state.

Amanda> And, when I was over at the Sumter office more- You know, people- We were in a building with a lot of elevators and nobody knew which floor they were supposed to- And no matter who it was, Pat McDaniel, who's been the admin there, or whoever was sitting up front, if somebody came in and was kind of, you know, "where am I supposed to be?"

I mean, we'd make phone calls and find out.

I mean, we're here to help people.

Terasa> Absolutely.

We don't always have all of the answers, but if it's not our area, we try to direct the person to that proper channel.

Amanda> Even if it's, you know, like, "where do I get my food stamp or something?"

I mean, we just try to be helpful and it's nice that Clemson does that.

<Yes> I think.

Yeah, okay.

Well Vicky Bertagnolli you're down in Aiken but also you work with HGIC.

And I sent somebody there the other day and, said "You'll get to talk to a real live person."

So tell everybody what HGIC is and how they can get in touch with those folks.

> So Clemson has this thing called the Home and Garden Information Center.

It houses more than 9,500 factsheets.

We've got... a staff of I think, it's ten.

And there's several agents that are on the phones every day.

They answer the phones from 8 to 4:30.

No break for lunch, 8 to 4:30.

There's somebody answering the phone.

They answer phone calls, emails.

And, I mean, we can find a lot of answers.

Amanda> Yeah.

And, you can- Y'all have a way that they can send you some pictures, and then they'll call you back and talk to you.

I mean, it's not like waiting, you know... Huh, uh, uh, push a button, you know.

Representative, representative.

Vicky> You get to talk to a live human.

Amanda> You don't have to go through all that... Vicky> The email responses are from a live human and the phone calls.

Amanda> I think y'all answer some food questions too, don't you?

Vicky> We do.

We have a, Food Systems and Safety Agent.

That's Adair Hoover.

And she helps with, with all that stuff too.

Amanda> So many people want to can and do stuff these days.

And you got to be careful when you do that.

<You do> You don't want to give botulism to your family or you won't get a Christmas present.

Vicky> Food safety is extremely important.

And there's factsheets on the HGIC.

A lot of the counties have... a food safety and systems agent.

And even if they're not housed in a county, they do cover that county.

So you can call your local county and find one of those agents.

Amanda> Yeah.

We're not gonna leave you dry.

Vicky> Nope.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Well, thank you for being here to help us today.

Well, we are so excited because we get to welcome a new face.

Laura Hair you are the 4-H Agent in Orangeburg and Calhoun.

<Yes ma'am> So you and I both live in Saint Matthews.

Laura> Yes ma'am, we do.

(laughter) Amanda> And so, where do you... when you put on classes, do you put them on, in Orangeburg or Calhoun?

Laura> A lot of the classes happen in Orangeburg just because I have more space there.

Amanda> Yeah, more space.

> But Orangeburg and Calhoun are so close- And I'm sure you know everyone, you know, in Calhoun County just comes over to Orangeburg to do a lot of stuff anyways.

But sometimes we have stuff going on in Calhoun County.

Amanda> Okay.

So, have you, did y'all, are you doing... "Oh, thank goodness the summer's over," a little bit.

Laura> Yes, ma'am.

A little bit of a breather before the fairs and school stuff starts back.

Amanda> I understand that you have somebody who, likes to watch the show even when you're not on it.

Laura> I do, my Uncle Michael in Rockhill, up near Rock Hill.

He loves to watch the show.

He faithfully watches it every single week.

Amanda> Well, thank you, Uncle Michael.

We appreciate it very, very much.

Yeah.

(laughter) Boy, he's at a place that's changing too.

That Rock Hill- Laura> Big time.

Amanda> I don't know if I could even drive around there anymore.

(Amanda making car noises) Well, I'm so happy that he watches us.

Yeah, thank you.

And Davis Sanders down from South Pleasantburg Nursery, in Greenville.

And, y'all have a... kind of fascinating nursery.

You've got big, I mean, trees that are going to be big and then you've got, a shop with stuff in it and you've got all kinds of plants and you've got knowledgeable people, from what I've heard.

I know you, and I know you are knowledgeable, <Thank you> I hope some of the others are as good as you are.

> Most of them are probably a little better than I am, because, we... right now, I think we do probably have the best staff that we've ever had in the 60 years that nursery has been open.

<Come on> And, we've got a, diverse set of skills.

We've got people that are, well versed in plant knowledge.

We've got, people who are well versed in cyber knowledge.

So we've increased our presence on the, on the internet, a lot of social media.

And, we're just, we're just happy to be a part of the community that we're in the middle of.

Amanda> Yeah.

And y'all have been there for a long time.

Davis> 60 years.

Amanda> Isn't that something?

So, grandchildren of people who used to come there are probably coming in now.

Davis> All the time.

Amanda> Isn't that fun?

Well, thank you for coming down.

We're gonna have some fun things for you to watch.

Carmen Ketron, who's just the cutest thing in the world.

We just love Carmen.

She's a sweet, dear.

She went down to Sassafras Nursery and Herbs in Aynor.

She has a funny description of where they were.

And you're going to enjoy that.

And then, Michael Murphy, who's an arborist, talks about the ways that you should prune trees so that they will survive hurricanes and, nobody's doing it right.

Very few people are.

And... you know, I mean, we have hurricanes.

And you sure don't want your tree falling down.

So he's going to explain all that and I hope people will really pay attention.

Because it makes a massive difference in whether or not a tree is going to fall down on your house.

Okay.

Well, Terasa, usually we have some "Gardens of the Week," and I don't know if anybody's even been able to put their boots on and get out and take a picture because we've had rain, rain, rain.

Terasa> You know, Amanda, our viewers always come through for us.

And so we are going to see what has been sent in.

It's always so inspiring and so much fun to see what you're doing in your yards, your gardens, or perhaps, maybe you've just captured one of South Carolina's many beautiful places.

So let's take our virtual field trip and begin with Doug Williams, who sent in a lovely patch of Turk's Cap.

He says it's frequented by hummingbirds.

And, according to the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center, the fruit is edible and the taste resembles an apple.

So it's often called "manzanilla," meaning little apple.

From Matthew Sullivan, we have American beautyberry growing in the Lowcountry.

And Native Americans had several medicinal uses for beautyberry, one of which was to make a tea and that was used to treat colic.

<Goodness> From Virginia McGrady, one of the night blooming Cereus.

Now, that name can be a little misleading because it's used for a whole number of cacti.

Not necessarily in the Cereus genus, but beautiful nonetheless.

Denise Tyler shared a snowberry clearwing moth, and that gets its name because one of the host plants is the snowberry.

And then last but not least, Jane Calhoun shared a bumble bee visiting a cucurbit flower.

This vine is a volunteer that just appeared growing like "Jack and the Beanstalk" with the support of Jane's shrubs.

So, we'll have to see some fruit to determine which cucurbit it happens to be.

Amanda> That's fun.

Terasa> Isn't that fun?

It's like her very own little mystery.

Thanks to everyone who shared photos.

You can see additional ones on the Making It Grow Facebook page.

And don't be shy when you see that Making It Grow call for "Gardens of the Week" just post your photos right there in the comments and it may show up on air.

Amanda> Okay, well thank you.

That was fun hearing about and seeing all those things.

I bet we have some questions.

Especially now that fall is kind of coming and people are... (sighs) maybe at last, I can get out and do some things.

Terasa> The dog days of summer are about to end.

Alright, we have a question from Sharon in Lyman.

She said, "You've helped me in the past with a bug ID.

My son in Maine texted a photo of a caterpillar that devastated his milkweed this summer.

These are not the coveted monarchs like he now has on milkweed.

He tried to handpick them, but there were so many.

The renegade caterpillars have moved on, thankfully.

What are they?"

Amanda> Wow, that's interesting because that plant has some compounds in it that not everybody can eat.

Vicky, what in the heck is going on?

Vicky> So that's one of the cool things.

We're... whenever it comes to... Extension answering questions, we've got, at the HGIC we've got clients from all over the world, Sharon texted this picture and it's from her son in Maine.

And he's asking about his milkweed growing up there.

But, we have the same critters down here, and this is a Milkweed tussock moth caterpillar.

And, whenever they're young, they're, yellow and they're knobby and they're not as hairy.

And whenever they mature, they get this punk rock hairdo and they're bright colored, and that bright coloring indicates something.

Now remember that milkweed produces toxins, and then, those insects feed on that plant and take in those toxins.

And so, they accumulate their alkaloid toxins.

They're called "cardiac glycosides."

And they, accumulate that in their flesh.

So if, a bug were to come eat them or some other kind of predator, they would taste bad.

And- Amanda> And they can learn things.

I mean, birds can learn.

Vicky> Animals... the animals that don't normally feed on- I mean, they learn this stuff.

You know, if it's bright colored in nature, you shouldn't be eating it, or you shouldn't be bothering it.

And, you know, the orange and the, the black and the white are an illustration of that.

Now, this is a hairy caterpillar.

Generally I tell people, if it's hairy or spiky, don't touch it.

This isn't normally one of the, what we would call "a stinging caterpillar."

But, those hairs can irritate... people with sensitive skin.

So you don't want to handle them?

Amanda> It's not a good idea to pick- I mean, there's some that aren't gonna bother you, I think, but it's just not a good idea to go pick one up.

Vicky> Right.

Now, this is found on milkweed.

<Okay> And it does compete with monarchs.

<Okay> But these plants are built to be fed on and, you know, they kind of divide, divide the resource.

You can handpick them if you want to.

But I mean it... you should have enough for both.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, thank you.

Thank you so much.

I appreciate it.

And I was going to tell you... when I come to work I cross the Congaree River, you know, on the 601 bridge, and this is everywhere along that.

And this is Crotalaria or rattlebox.

We have some native ones, but it was brought in- You know, we've made a lot of mistakes bringing things in on purpose.

This was brought in, to add nitrogen, add nitrogen to the soil.

And... then it turns out it's toxic to dogs.

I don't know, poor little dog, I don't know why some dogs will just eat anything, and to people.

And so, but it's still out there and it makes seed pods that rattle.

And I was looking this up and it was talking about in Florida, Vicky, there's a Bella moth.

Which is, teeny-tiny little thing.

And this has been a real problem in some agricultural fields in Florida.

And this Bella moth, which normally ate the native one, has started laying its caterpillars, and they eat the seeds of this, and they have really dramatically reduced it.

And, it can be a nuisance.

I was talking to one of the people who's here helping us today behind the cameras, and he said his job when they were out in the fields was to jump off the tractor and pull up this dang thing before it went to seed and spread seeds all over the place.

Vicky> It's one of our significant agricultural weeds.

Amanda> And the Bella moth, just like you were explaining about these, is very, very, very brightly colored.

Vicky> It's a gorgeous little moth.

It's not, large at all.

But the, the larvae feed on the foliage at first.

<Yeah> And then it'll move to the seed and hopefully damage the seed enough where it won't- Amanda> Isn't that fun?

Vicky> -it won't germinate.

Terasa> Our natural world is full of those complex plant and animal relationships.

And it...

I don't give many talks anymore, but I recently had the opportunity and I talked about how if in your garden, if things aren't eating your plants, then it's really not part of an ecosystem, right?

It's almost like a museum.

And of course... it's hard to accept that kind of thing, but really, we sort of, sort of want that because plants are the only things- Well, for the majority, they can capture sunlight and then sequester that and then pass it on as things consume it and others consume it.

So, yeah, just fascinating relationships.

Vicky> One of the things to consider is that a lot of these, if you, if it's like a pest... type situation, that some of these are going to be self-limiting because whenever the, whatever's eating this other- You know, organism A is eating organism B, once organism B is reduced far enough, organism A's population starts going down too.

So, a lot of those things are going to be self-limiting in the end.

Amanda> And of course we do have some invasive species.

And sometimes you really do have to get after them because oh, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la.

Anyway.

Well, that was a lot of fun.

Okay.

Well, let's see have we got another question?

Or can somebody help us with something?

Terasa> I'm sure we do.

This one comes in from Michael in Orangeburg.

Michael said, "My child is interested in many different things.

Can kids participate in more than one 4-H project?"

Amanda> My goodness.

Well, I think, from what I remember, 4-H is pretty varied.

What would you think?

Laura> It is.

It's very varied.

We have five different program areas in South Carolina 4-H.

So kids can learn about agriculture and animals.

They can learn about natural resources, healthy living, STEM and leadership.

<Gracious> And we love for the children to kind of, you know, pick and choose what they want to do, try out new things.

I actually work with Mid-Carolina Youth Shooting Team, and we just had an open house last weekend.

<Goodness> And the children come out.

Some of them have never shot a gun before, and they just come out and try it.

And they might fall in love with it, and they might not like it at all.

And if they don't like it, we'll try to find something else for them to enjoy.

Amanda> And I'm sure they learn gun safety, which is really, really important.

Laura> Definitely.

Amanda> So what ages does 4-H cover?

Laura> 4-H covers ages five through eighteen as of January 1st, the previous year.

That gets kind of confusing.

But five through eighteen.

So school age children.

And the 4-H... registration year actually just opened on September 1st.

So if you're interested in getting your child involved in 4-H, just make sure that you call your local 4-H agent.

And speak to them.

Let them know your child's interest before you just go online and sign up, so that we can get them in something that they're very interested in.

Amanda> Okay.

And, is there any cost to be in 4-H?

Laura> Registration's 15 dollars for, to just join 4-H. You get a free t-shirt.

<Okay> And then depending on what the activity is there might be another cost associated with that.

Amanda> If you have to... Yeah.

Laura> Right.

Materials and stuff like that.

Amanda> But everything's very reasonable.

Laura> Very reasonable.

Amanda> Yeah, okay.

Thank you so much.

Laura> Yes ma'am.

Amanda> Well, Davis, I bet you put some things in the car and brought them down to show us.

Davis> I certainly did, and it was kind of coincidental that, the first "Garden of the Week" featured the Turk's Cap.

I did bring a sample of that.

This is, Malvaviscus arboreus.

It is a, native plant, native to, pretty much all of the East Coast.

And... it's called Turk's Cap, because if you look closely, you can see the, the little flowers there.

It's in the Mallow family.

So you can see the, the reproductive parts actually coming out of that flower.

But the flower never actually opens up.

So it resembles a Turkish cap.

Amanda> Fun.

Davis> It thrives in relatively neutral soil.

So a lot of times, with our... acidic soils in South Carolina, a lot of people don't have success with it.

But if you can find it, you can put a little bit of lime around it.

It thrives in a pH of around 6.8 to 7.2.

Just, neutral to slightly acidic.

Loves shade.

It is very- Amanda> Shade?

It's gonna have those beautiful flowers.

Davis> It is.

And it's very drought tolerant.

A lot of times, we have people coming into the nursery looking for a vine that will grow in the shade.

Well, this isn't a true vine, but you can see it can be trained upright very easily and trained on a trellis.

So, you can get that, that kind of, seasonal coverage even in the shade.

Amanda> Well, it's just beautiful.

The leaves are pretty and the flowers just dramatically- What a pretty color it would be for a lipstick, wouldn't it Vicky?

Vicky> Yeah.

(laughter) That's actually a really good lipstick color.

(laughter continues) Laura> Is it an annual or a perennial.

Davis> It is a perennial.

The, most of the stems will persist through the winter.

It'll defoliate.

So it's, it's actually kind of shrubby.

And if it doesn't have, if you haven't trained it up on anything, like a trellis or a fence, it will, it'll make a fairly large shrub.

It can get up, you know, five, six, eight feet with an equal spread.

Amanda> Oh, it spreads as well?

<Uh-huh> That would be awfully pretty, wouldn't it?

<Mhm> Well, does it want like, part shade?

Davis> It can, it can take, fairly deep shade if it's in... a spot where it gets about half and half, it's going to bloom heavier.

Amanda> Okay, okay.

Sure is pretty.

Well, I hate to put it back down, but, maybe you'll bring something else equally interesting, to take its place.

Davis> Actually...

Here again- And this is one that's kind of hard to find.

This one is Aristo... Aristoloch...

Excuse me, Aristoloch...

Anyway, it's Dutchman's Pipe.

(laughter) Terasa> Latin names are always tough.

Davis> Yes, it is.

It is, the host plant for the pipevine swallowtail butterfly.

<Uh-huh> Which are, they're relatively rare.

And you can see from the, the holes in the leaves here.

I'm going to rotate it just a little bit.

You can see the holes in the leaves there where the, the caterpillars have been feeding on this one.

Pipevine swallowtail is very beautiful.

Dark, dark blue and black butterfly with, iridescent spots on the wings.

And... this is also a southeastern native.

It's- Amanda> A native?

Davis> Yeah, it's native, all the way down into central Georgia and central South Carolina.

It's most commonly found in a little bit cooler, a little bit higher elevations.

But, this one loves moisture.

It's not very drought tolerant at all.

And here again, this one will grow in the shade.

<Mercy> It is deciduous.

But the woody stems do persist year round.

So, you do have some presence there.

Amanda> Does it spread nicely?

Will it cover a trellis?

Davis> It's not aggressive.

And since it is a shade lover, it's not going to grow real fast.

Uh-huh.

The, problem you generally have with vines in the shade is most of them want sun.

So their first, first growth habit is to reach for the sun, whether that's getting up into your fascia on the house or getting up into the tree canopy overhead until it reaches that sun, and then it can spread out.

But this one's perfectly happy to, sit under a tree or an arbor.

Terasa> And Davis, I'm thinking the flower is kind of a... Burgundy, purply color, is that correct?

Davis> It is.

And it's, relatively small, somewhat insignificant.

You actually have to kind of look for it, to find it.

But yeah, it's, it's usually sort of sort of a pinkish color with darker blotches.

And it's shaped like a calabash pipe, hence the name.

There is a form of this, that's called, the "Tropical Dutchman's Pipe," that we've seen offered from, from tropical plant vendors.

It's a very showy plant, huge leaves and giant, interesting looking flowers.

But we found out that, that particular one is toxic to the pipevine swallowtail.

So, those kind of disappeared from the inventory real quickly.

Amanda> Wow.

Wow.

Terasa> That's really good information because I...

I bet people could intend to do something good and then actually, you know, have unintended consequences.

Vicky> Well, if you're thinking that it's a tropical, you think you can grow it a little bit further like... down into, further into the Midlands, like Aiken.

Davis> Or as an annual like a Hibiscus or a... Thunbergia vine or something like that.

Yes.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, I'm so glad y'all found a source for it.

And you say it- but where in South Carolina do you think we would be successful growing it?

Davis> Probably in the Upstate.

Anywhere where we, we get some significant cold in the wintertime.

They do... they can adapt to quite a bit of sun, and heat, but they seem to do best in areas where the temperatures don't regularly get above 90, 95.

Amanda> Okay.

But moisture, moisture, moisture.

Davis> Yes.

Definitely with this one.

Amanda> Well, thank you so much.

Davis> You're welcome.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, Carmen Ketron went down to Sassafras Nursery and Herbs in Aynor, South Carolina, and I got, a peek of what she talked about.

And this is going to be a real treat for you.

♪ > Hello everybody, my name is Carmen Ketron.

I'm the Urban Horticulture Agent for Florence and Darlington Counties.

But today, I'm here in the beautiful Horry County at UCLA or Upper Conway Lower Aynor, specifically Cool Springs.

We are along the busy 319 highway to the beach, so you'll hear a whole bunch of traffic.

But one of the best things is tucked away along this busy highway is the beautiful Sassafras Nursery and Herbs.

And I'm here today, with Mr. Chuck Cahoon.

Owner, proprietor, with his lovely wife.

And we just wanted to talk about what a fabulous garden and nursery he has today.

Chuck, thank you so much for having us.

Chuck> Thanks for coming.

Carmen> You have such a distinctive garden.

It just has a life of its own.

Tell me how you started gardening and how you envisioned all this.

How it all came to be.

Chuck> I've always been a... what you'd call an "eclectic gardener."

I never liked everything like everybody else had.

So when we went on vacations, we would seek out that oddball nursery for that oddball plant.

My wife could tell you horror stories about being on the side of a mountain in North Carolina, looking for Sandy Mush Herb Nursery.

But gardening started out as a necessity.

Feeding a young family.

And then later on in construction, it became therapy.

Come home, pull off the shirt and tie, get your hands in the soil, and just release the day's tension.

Now, it's a passion.

We enjoy sharing.

I'm fully retired now, so I have the time to put into not just the propagation and the keeping of the plants, but my own gardens.

My own garden suffered while everything else was going on.

Carmen> You have a beautiful garden and a lot of really cool stuff going on in it.

Tell me a little bit about maybe some of the things that you're trialing out in the garden that the average gardener might not know about.

Chuck> Being in construction, I'm a little bit of a Fred Sanford.

I always brought home salvaged materials.

We'll see one area where we renovated Ripley's Aquarium's Marine Science Center, and all of their old fish tanks were changed out to new ones.

And I said, "That looks like a planter to me."

And I brought home those and... didn't just fill them with compost.

I use a little bit of Hugelkultur and filled the bottom with chunks of wood and limbs and leaves and everything else.

It cut down on the amount of compost I needed too.

You'll see trellises made out of old bed frames.

The cheapest way you can... build a trellis.

All kinds of salvaged materials.

My grape arbor is made out of concrete reinforcing rebar.

As far as things we're trying different.

I follow a guy on YouTube and he called them "living pathways."

So I'm using, annual rye this year, and I stress annual because mid-May, late May, the annual rye should die out.

But right now, it makes a gorgeous pathway.

My puppy dogs just love, just to roll around in the pathway.

But hopefully, if it works, I'll harvest that rye and use it for mulch on the garden.

More and more, I'm trying to go to a no-till garden set up.

If you take that same compost material and you till it into the soil, you introduce so much oxygen into that mix- Our microbes are active ten months out of the year and they just go crazy and they will burn through that organic nutrition in a year's period of time.

The next year, you'll have soil that looks dark and maybe the tilth is better, but the nutrient value is gone.

So, learning to put it on top and letting the earthworms and all the micro... life that's going on, pull it down into the soil structure.

That's an old soybean farmer learning the hard way, I guess, but starting to try to do no-till.

Carmen> Tell me about your layering method for a lot of the vegetable gardens you have.

Chuck> So, this year has been a reclamation project.

And to pull that initial layer off and then lay down cardboard.

And the cardboard, you know, with the plastic removed and as "plain Jane" as you can get for the cardboard.

It acts as an initial layer for the weed seed not to germinate that through.

And then the next layer is leaves and bark and tree limbs and everything I can get my hands on of a woody, porous nature.

And that's going to go down in a three inch layer or so.

And then those reclaimed fish tanks we were talking about, I moved three of them.

So I had a good source for compost, to empty those.

And I capped those beds with three inches of compost.

And then on three of the beds, the next layer was, was a mineral additive just to help with overall nutrition of the soil.

Because I'm feeding the soil, not the plants.

Carmen> You're making soil, Chuck> I'm feeding the soil.

I did a mineral supplement and then a layer of a shredded pine bark that I use here in the nursery as a planting medium.

And then I used wine cap mushrooms spore.

And another layer of the pine bark.

And the goal is September, October of this year I'll have wine cap mushrooms.

There's another area that I have reclaimed, and I've completely tarped it for the summer with a silage tarp, a black heavy plastic tarp.

And the idea is to cook that weed population down and this fall, reclaim that as a garden so that I can start doing some rotation things with cover crops.

Carmen> Oh, how cool.

The thing I love about your garden is how unique and eclectic it is, and that flows over into the nursery.

So what goes into your decision of what you're going to propagate?

Chuck> It really came from our own garden.

I mean, over the years we've collected the unusual.

I don't want to be like everybody else.

And, you know, I don't want to grow everything that they grow.

So that's where it's taken us.

I love taking someone through for the first time.

And I would encourage them to pinch off something and smell the different things.

We have a salad burnet that it's not all that pretty a plant, necessarily, but you break it off and you taste it, and it tastes like cucumber.

So that's a cool weather source of a cucumber flavor.

When cucumbers aren't available.

We have a cutting celery.

You can't grow a stalk celery here in our climate.

But this cutting celery, if you mince that leaf and a little bitty stalk that it has, it's such a strong celery flavor that you would use less of it in your recipe.

We have an anise hyssop that I always ask, "Do you like or do you hate black jelly beans?"

Because that's a spectrum question.

There's nobody really in the middle.

And, when somebody that loves a black jelly bean, when I break that off and bruise it and let them smell it, it smells just like black licorice.

So, those kinds of things, those different plants, is just where my natural selection goes to.

And that's what we enjoy sharing with the folks who come here.

And we do a lot of medicinal plants that nobody carries in our area.

And my wife knows a lot of those uses.

We have to be very careful about sharing the medical knowledge, we just have to direct... now here's where you can go research that and decide for yourself.

Part of what I share with folks, is because all of our plants, it's either taken from a cutting here or it's a seed that was grown here and then it over winters here.

If you, take one of our plants home and put it in the ground two miles or five miles away, it thrives because it's used to our conditions.

I've got a fig, and we propagate a brown turkey fig.

I got the start, from behind the corn crib of my grandfather's dairy farm.

And I've taken that fig plant with me all over the United States in a big pot.

And when we got here, I planted it in the ground.

We have a red leaf plum that, in a different location- Where I grew up in high school, they were in that yard.

Well, my aunt back in dairy country wanted one, so we give her a start.

My folks move.

My aunt's got the stock now, I get a start from her.

Her's gets blown down in a hurricane.

I have that tree with me, and I propagate that tree, now.

My mom... growing up had a bad hip, okay.

So she loved flowers, but she wasn't physically able to to do a lot.

So I gardened for her, you know, and grew those flowers for her.

And just... it became part of who I was.

♪ Carmen> Where can other people find out more about you?

I have a Facebook page, Sassafras Nursery.

Our address 3221 Highway 319, Aynor.

Not Conway, that'll put you in the wrong spot.

The one thing that's confusing is because we're not set up like a garden center.

There's not a big parking lot, there's not a lot of flashy signage.

And people walk in here and they are amazed at how much they find in behind a pretty low-key front display.

Carmen> But always look for that purple sign.

That's what I always clock when I'm driving by.

Thank you so much.

Chuck> You're welcome.

Thank you.

♪ Amanda> What a fun trip to a place that has really unusual things.

That's what they like to do.

I bet they've had a good time with that, don't you Terasa?

Anyway, hats, hats, hats.

So, as always, thank goodness for Hank and Ann.

Ann mostly...

But Hank drags things in and out.

So this, these beautiful leaves, I'm not real sure what it is.

And, Terasa, do you remember when we, when I went to Erline Wiles, that beautiful garden?

Terasa> Oh, yes.

Amanda> Yeah.

And she was, you know, lived to be 100 and was gardening right to the end.

And this is something she gave Ann, and Ann doesn't know what it is and neither do I.

And, so maybe HGIC- it's some kind of lily.

Anyway... (laughter) But I just think the leaves are wonderful.

They look kind of peculiar on my head, don't they?

It looks like I've got big ears.

(laughter) Anyway... And a dunce cap, thank you.

(laughter continues) And then I also have some Celosia, which is perfectly normal.

But I just think, you got to admit, these leaves are just- Vicky> They're very dramatic.

Amanda> Aren't they beautiful?

And the plant's just full of them.

I mean, it's not like one or two.

I mean, it's just... nothing but these gorgeous leaves.

Terasa> The contrast between the green with that variegation on the front, and then that kind of magenta on the back.

And as you said Terasa, it would be pretty if you had a glass vase that you were going to- You say, you could put these leaves inside?

Terasa> Yeah, I think you could and then kind of camouflage the stems.

But you'd get that, that pretty- Amanda> And you could use either side really, you know, or put one at the bottom and one a little higher up.

I just thought it was stunningly fun.

Davis> Look up Strelanthe.

Amanda> Strelanthe?

Davis> S-T-R-E-L-I-N-T-H-E, I believe.

Amanda> Well, maybe it was in a pot, but it looked like an awfully big pot to be hauling in and out, but.

You think it might be tropical?

Davis> Mhm.

Amanda> Well, anyway, whatever it is I thought it... was fun and then Celosia just- If you got Celosia, you will have more Celosia.

Terasa> Yeah, that is true.

Amanda> Isn't that nice?

Because I'm sure things enjoy it, you know.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, thank you Ann as always.

Anyway, let's see where are we?

Okay.

Vicky, yeah, you- What in the world have you brought?

Vicky> So I brought.

Amanda> And don't you let it go.

Vicky> I did bring a, I did bring a friend.

Terasa> I think cool things just find you.

They just materialize.

It's like they know you're an entomologist- Amanda> Birds of a feathers flock together... (laughter) Vicky> It's great.

I mean, the universe gives me all these little gifts, and I was...

I was on leave and getting ready to prepare for the show, this week.

<Sure> I went out to the car- Amanda> See what you could bring.

Vicky> This was like Monday, and this was on the tire of my car.

It's very easy to notice.

It's a... a Saddleback caterpillar.

And this is one of the, the slug caterpillars.

And they call them a slug caterpillar because they're, you'll notice that it's kind of slow.

But, the important thing to know about this is I've told y'all, And I've told you...

I told you earlier in the show, if it's hairy or spiky, don't pick it up.

This is an excellent, excellent example of one that you do not pick up.

Amanda> Because those little hairs are, can be horribly irritating.

Vicky> Correct.

So some of them have urticating hairs, which means it just kind of irritates the skin.

So we're talking like tussock moths, webworms can do that.

But Saddlebacks- This is, this is different.

These are, these are toxic hairs.

And so... they can, you can have a really nasty reaction to these, and it hurts- Amanda> You might have to go to the emergency room.

Vicky> It hurts.

It depends on your sensitivity.

It hurts.

They feed on a whole bunch of stuff.

This is- When it comes to stinging caterpillars, this is the one that we're going to see most commonly.

Amanda> Really?

Vicky> Is the Saddleback.

Now, I do have examples of another one that I found in my yard.

It's called a "Stinging rose caterpillar."

And it's, you can see that it's this bright yellow color.

The color can vary, but it's this bright yellow color.

It has a stripe down, a dorsal stripe but it is also... has spines.

And one of the important things to know, So... there's about 50 different species of slug caterpillars.

We have about six of them in North America.

And, they bear these needling or, urticating seedy or spines.

And, the structures are hollow, so there's toxins.

Amanda> Oh, okay.

Vicky> They have these poison cell, they have these poison gland cells.

And the hairs associated with that.

<Heavens> So when it breaks off, it can release that toxin.

And... there's a really cool book.

Most people are not going to buy this thing.

It's called, Medical and Veterinary Entomology .

This is a textbook.

And it talks about... the different types of hairs.

There's like 11 different types of toxic hairs that they can have, depending on the mechanism of delivery.

And, this is where I learned about this- Amanda> If anybody knows about colorful hairs, it would be you.

Vicky> It would be.

(laughter) Terasa> Those aren't the stinging kind though, right?

Vicky> These are, these are not.

Amanda> Okay.

All right.

Okay.

That's a mosquito on the front, which is probably, you know, they kill more people in the world than anything else.

I mean, they're just, hundreds of thousands of people.

Terasa> Oh, the Saddleback is right on the front of the cover.

Vicky> Yeah, it is.

Amanda> There's a little picture of that on there too.

Vicky> It's been immortalized in print.

Amanda> Are they, way up in a tree or do they feed on things that are more closely to the ground?

Vicky> So, they feed on all sorts of stuff?

Slug caterpillars feed on a wide variety of very common things that we have in our yards.

Apple, Aster, blueberry, citrus, corn, dogwoods, elms, linden, maples, oaks, oats.

<Okay> Prunus, sunflowers, Viburnum.

I've got hickories in my front yard.

Terasa> Generalists.

They're very- Vicky> Yeah.

They feed on it's, something like 40 different families of plants, something like that.

Amanda> And it's a caterpillar?

Vicky> It's a caterpillar.

Amanda> What does it look like after it's not a caterpillar?

Vicky> This very nondescript brown moth.

It's nothing fun.

<Okay> The caterpillar's the fun part.

Amanda> Kind of, sort of- Terasa> Not if you touch it?

Vicky> In more ways than one.

(laughter) The caterpillar is the fun part.

Amanda> Okay, well, I'm glad you got those tires on your Jeep, and that you looked at them.

I don't know if they lose air all the time and you have to inspect them every morning, but for whatever reason... Terasa> I have to make a mental note, now... Amanda> What did you say?

Terasa> I'm going to make a mental note, when I look at my vehicle.

I'm not just checking the tire pressure, but I'm looking for cool stuff.

Vicky> I tell you what I went to...

I went to the post office and whenever I came out- I do, I have it on film.

There was, my car was parked and there was a little butterfly just hanging out on the tire, I took video of it.

Amanda> My producer says that, "You like accessories for your Jeep."

Vicky> I do.

(laughter) I mean, come on, if they're alive it's even better.

(laughter continues) Amanda> Well, thank you.

That was fun to look at and also fun to learn about.

And so the warning is, even though this is the extreme of, you know, causing harm, don't pick up those hairy caterpillars.

Terasa> Look with your eyes, not with your hands.

That's what I used to tell kids, right?

Look with your eyes, not with your hands.

Vicky> This is not one that you want to handle with bare hands.

Amanda> Okay.

So you're going to carry it home and let it go?

Vicky> Yeah.

Amanda> Okay.

Okay.

Terasa?

Terasa> You're looking for another question, aren't you?

How about we try to help Robin in Saint Matthews?

Robin said, "When most people think about 4-H at the fair, they think livestock shows."

I agree, "But what other kinds of exhibits or activities does 4-H have for families to enjoy?"

Amanda> Okay.

Well, what do you think?

Laura> 4-H offers lots of programs during the summer.

Like canning classes, sewing classes, craft classes.

So maybe some of the things that your child made over the summer, even if it wasn't through a 4-H program, they could take and enter into the fair.

If you're interested in finding out about all of the fairs in South Carolina, I think there's 12 fairs in South Carolina.

You can look on your favorite web browser for South Carolina Association of Fairs.

And they have a list of all of the fairs in South Carolina with the dates.

And then you can click the website and see, you know, what you can enter in that fair.

At the Orangeburg Fair that I'm associated with, we also have a garden.

<Okay> Last summer, the children planted it during a camp that we had.

This summer, our extension office has planted it.

It's growing, slowly but surely.

Amanda> Who's been weeding it?

Laura> Jonathan Croft, that I work with, <Yeah> he has been great about weeding it.

Amanda> He's a great person.

Laura> Yes.

We did have a little goose problem the other day.

After we planted the seeds, the geese came out and had their little buffet, so we had to go back and plant... redo our garden.

We also have a pollinator garden that we installed last year.

So when families come out, they can learn more about pollinators.

Amanda> That's so exciting.

Laura> And of course the livestock shows.

I know at the Orangeburg Fair we have we're lucky to have Farm Bureau as a sponsor.

And they've actually upped the premiums this year for one of our scholarships.

Amanda> Whoa!

How wonderful.

Laura> Yes.

They tripled the money that they offered us.

So really good money in Orangeburg this year for livestock shows.

Amanda> And that's mostly cattle, I'm guessing?

Laura> We have seven livestock shows that we do.

We do beef cows, dairy cows, meat goats, dairy goats, rabbits, birds and hogs.

Amanda> Heavens.

Laura> Seven livestock shows.

Amanda> And Farm Bureau is a sponsor of our show.

And... Laura> Oh, nice.

Amanda> They really are involved in a lot of things positively.

Laura> They're great.

Amanda> They really are.

Okay.

So, you have some small animals and then you have the big animals too.

<Yes ma'am> Okay.

Alright.

Well, thanks so much.

Davis, I think you've got something that you were going to tell us about.

That, is a positive thing, if we could get rid of an invasive thing.

Davis> I do have a... this is a Southern wood fern.

This is a native, evergreen fern it does persist all winter.

Sometimes it gets a little ratty toward the end of the winter, but this is a very good substitute for the autumn fern, which, while autumn fern is a beautiful specimen with the apricot colored, new growth and fiddleheads.

It can also be, invasive and it's actually becoming a pretty bad problem, a little bit further south in Florida and south Georgia.

We haven't seen it spreading so rapidly in the Upstate.

But when we can have a native that would fill the same niche in the garden, and not be invasive, why not?

Amanda> I think the autumn fern, if I'm not mistaken, grows in places that ferns- I mean, it's so prolific that there's no room for the native ferns.

Davis> Right.

Exactly.

Amanda> It just happens with so many invasives.

And look at this beautiful little fiddlehead coming out on it.

Isn't that just wonderful?

Davis> That's the new growth.

Amanda> Some people eat fiddleheads.

Davis> Well and a lot- Probably not this one.

But a lot of ferns are grown specifically for the fiddleheads.

It's, fairly common in gourmet restaurants on salads.

Amanda> Okay.

All right.

Well... Michael Murphy is an arborist, and he's going to tell us about how to prune.

Where to prune and what not to prune on your trees.

So that they'll be as healthy as they can be.

Amanda> I'm speaking with Michael Murphy, and Michael is a, board certified Master Arborist and, has been in the tree care business, I think, for close to 50 years.

The last part of your career was spent in Beaufort with Preservation Tree Care now taken over by Bartlett, and they're continuing the good work there.

But what is a board certified Master Arborist?

Michael> So, the board certified Master Arborist is the next level of certification that you can get above being a certified Arborist.

Amanda> All right.

Michael> And, there's only seven in the state of South Carolina, which, I'm a little disappointed.

I'm very proud to be one, but there should be more.

People should... take the test.

Amanda> Well, and I think all of us should go to certified, Master, certified Arborist before having anyone come to work on trees in our yard.

Because those people should be aware of the newest, best practices.

But sadly, there are people out there in the tree care business who are, giving people the wrong information.

And I was particularly concerned about the, we hear that we're going to have so many more hurricanes and stronger storms.

And gosh, I know in the Lowcountry, I can just imagine the devastation that y'all saw after hurricanes, it's bad enough in the middle of the state.

So what do we expect to happen with the hurricanes?

What are y'all hearing now?

Michael> Well, the projections are, not very good, and we know the weather is, really effecting our daily lives.

But Kim Coder from the University of Georgia, Warnell School of Forestry tells us that, there's going to be a 6.5%, a six and a half degree increase in temperature by 2035.

There's going to be 6% added to the wind loads from future hurricanes, storms are going to be moving 20% slower, and there's going to be 24% more rainfall.

And we can all attest to that.

And these are going to be larger, slower, wetter, more damaging storms.

And they're going to be in places that we really, never had tropical storms and hurricanes before.

So it's going to be really important to keep our trees, pruned properly.

And the standards have changed.

So it's important for you to know as a homeowner, that the person that you're getting to prune your trees knows about the standards.

Amanda> So as we said, it used to be that they would tell you to get the interior.

And it kind of makes sense, take all those interior little branches out and all because you think that they would, you know, catch more of the wind and all but... You said that they've done some research and they had a... wind, a machine that could- Michael> A wind tunnel.

Amanda> -that could simulate a hurricane.

And they put trees that have been pruned in different manners in there and what did they find?

Michael> So they found out, and, they found out that the more you pruned out of a tree, the more you took away this so-called "sail effect" from the tree, the more hazardous the tree will become.

The more likely it would, it would have storm damage.

And so they did the research and they, pruned the trees, different, different types of trees.

They, had this, wind machine, down at the University of Florida, it happened.

And, they were able to slow the video down with the with the, high definition photography that we have these days.

And they found that the, the trees that were over pruned were whipping around in the wind like a, like a whip.

They were just, yeah, flailing about.

And then the, the properly pruned trees, they were almost dancing- Amanda> -the ones that still had the interior.

Michael> The interior branches.

They were almost dancing, they were dampening.

And, and they were balancing each of the other limbs.

So all that interior crown turned out to be very important for the tree.

Amanda> So one thing that I'm thinking is as the ground gets, as the rain, we get more rain and it stays in a place longer, the ground's going to get soggier.

And so the trees more likely to, to fall over.

Michael> Correct.

So the less the tree moves, the less it, it can move those roots out of, out of the ground.

So this dampening, process that, that's created by the interior limbs, is very, very important to keep in there.

Amanda> So talk about how someone should come and look at your trees and what they should, what they now should do according to the new standards.

Michael> So the new standards, promote more of this interior live wood, retention.

And it's called the Natural Pruning System.

And, former standards had talked about crown cleaning a lot.

So, arborists, I think, got the idea that cleaning, if cleaning is good, maybe more cleaning is better.

So these, poor practices started to, kind of overtake the tree industry.

But with the new standards, they're telling us that we should have less than 20% of our live wood cutting should be on the interior of the tree and, 80%, or as much as 80% of the live wood cutting should be on the reduction of outside branches.

Because these trees, we need to make them, structurally healthy.

We talk about having a healthy tree in our yard, and we can't really physically make a tree, healthier, but we can structurally make the tree healthier.

And by bringing in, reducing elongated branches and retaining as much of that interior, growth as we can, these trees are going to be, stable... have healthy, stable, structures.

And that's as much as we can do for a tree.

Amanda> Well, I want to thank you so much for sharing this information with us, because I know that trees are the backbone of our ecology in so many ways.

The shade, the, the valued wildlife and, and then that if they do contact a certified Arborist, just go to the certified Arborist website.

You can find people in your area who have that training and get in touch with them, and have them come and help you with your trees.

Michael> Well, I hope, our listeners take your advice and they'll, they definitely will have stronger and safer trees.

Amanda> Thank you so much for sharing this information.

Michael> Well, thanks for having me today.

Amanda> Gosh, it's just wonderful to talk to arborist.

Trees are so important in our lives and to learn how to take care of them properly.

And we certainly learned a lot from him.

And I was going to tell you sometimes, you know, he finds- They don't take trees down often, but sometimes he has to.

And he'll find weird things in the tree that he can you know, carve and do things with.

And this is one that he got.

And I just think it's fascinating.

Look at this.

Terasa> It's magnificent.

Amanda> I don't know what I can serve in it because... (laughter) but it is the stump of a redbud.

Now, how crazy is that?

Isn't that- So I guess it was like this and then, and it's called "preservation tree art."

And, I just thought that was the most fascinating thing I've just about ever seen.

Yeah.

So I guess if you wanted to, you could put up a handkerchief.

I mean, a napkin in it, and serve biscuits or something.

I mean, you know, and...

But anyway, I just think... Terasa> Or just use it as a decoration and admire its beauty.

Amanda> That's what I- (all speaking and agreeing) But anyway, the stump of a redbud, you know, and I wouldn't even know, you know- Vicky> That's not as, what I have in my head as a redbud.

That seems very large.

Amanda> Anyway, and of course, redbuds are, you know, wonderful.

You know, I mean, they, they come up all over the place, but I mean, so many things eat redbuds and we can even put their, flowers in our salads and things, you know.

And they're just so pretty in the yard.

Terasa> But the flowers are not red.

Amanda> That's true.

Terasa> They're more like a magenta color.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

And, but also... it's a larval food source, and they have all these new redbuds that have different colored leaves.

Just get the plain straight species if you want it to serve its best purpose as a larval food source.

I believe that, since you're an entomologist, I think that's correct.

Vicky> That's typical.

But, I mean, they'll survive on a lot of... they can adapt.

Amanda> Well, anyway.

All right.

Well, thank you for letting us know that they will adapt.

But, anyway, it was so much fun having you.

I hope you'll come back Laura.

Laura> Yes ma'am.

I'd love to.

Amanda> Okay.

Don't call me "Yes, ma'am" even though... you can tell these children with nice mothers.

Okay, well, I think it's time for us to say good night to everybody.

Bye-bye.

♪ Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.