Welcome back to Family Health Matters.

I'm Shelley Irwin, with me today is Cris Saur, Producer, Director, Writer of the "Quest For Beauty" film.

Wafa Adib-Lobo from Safe Harbor Legal, PLC, Rachael Steil, Author and Founder of Running in Silence.

Anu Sood, Licensed Master Social Worker at Pine Rest Christian Mental Health Services.

And David Weinandy, Department of Communications at Aquinas College.

Hello to you David, thank you all for being here and a very important subject to discuss not only for the young at heart, but also for our youth.

And let me begin with the questions for each of you on how you are involved, let's just say in this topic, let me begin with you David.

- Sure, part of, I guess, how I'm involved, is that since I teach communication courses, we talk about physical attractiveness quite a bit, whether it's interpersonally, is through mass media, social media.

So academically I'm a part of this, but I'm also a part of it because I have been affiliated with pageantry as well in the past, through the Miss America Organization, as well as the Miss Wheelchair America Organization.

- Right, Anu Sood, we will introduce you.

Thank you for being here on behalf of Pine Rest.

Tell us about you.

- Hi, good afternoon.

I am a outpatient mental health therapist at Pine Rest and my specialty is in eating disorders among several other things.

So I've had a pretty strong interest in the topic of eating disorders for many years.

Since getting my master's in 2004, it's been an area of interest for me.

So I feel really honored and privileged to be able to work with young adults and adults struggling with eating disorders and disordered eating.

- And you were working with men and women?

- Yeah, work with all ages, some children as well, yep.

- Yes, Rachael tell us about you.

- Yeah, I struggled with an eating disorder for at least five years when I was cross-country and track runner at Aquinas College.

So I started the nonprofit Running in Silence to raise awareness and I do a bunch of speaking engagements to talk about prevention efforts and to educate coaches.

So there's a lot of talk about how athletes appear for their sports.

And I guess that would go along with the topic of beauty and how we feel in our bodies, body image as it relates to sports.

- Yes, Wafa can you share your story?

- Sure, thank you for having me Shelley.

So Shelley, this topic is very personal to me because on academic level, I've been teaching for the last seven or eight years.

So I've been interacting with young adults of all ages, men and women.

So I've definitely counseled some students through difficulties as it appears, as it relates to self-esteem.

And then of course, I'm the mother of two teenage daughters, a 14 year old and an almost 16 year old.

So this is a topic of relevance in my household on a daily basis.

Mostly walking out the door really every morning with my children, yes.

- Thank you for that.

Cris I save your introduction for the last, congratulations, thank you.

Is a compliment on what we have just a witness.

So I turn to you for a bit of your story and why this documentary?

- Thank you so much Shelley for having me.

So I started off as a fashion model.

I worked as a fashion model for almost 20 years and I started noticing that beauty was something, especially in fashion, it's something very limited.

And because I studied civil engineering prior to becoming a model, I was like, in castings, they could not care less if I had a brain or not, right?

And it's like, what else do I have to offer to the brand or to the world?

And the pressure of being skinny and young, and then I was already in my mid 30s when I started having all these questions.

So it started to become very hard on me, on my self-esteem and that eventually led me to substance abuse and toxic relationships.

And I think it really clicked on me how low I've gotten inside of me when I allow my relationship to got to a point where I was physically abused.

And that's when I started to question, what does it really mean to be beautiful?

Who am I?

what am I doing here?

And all these questions that I've been not answering for so long.

And that's when I decided to go on My Quest for Beauty and it was something that I thought it was gonna be something more of tracks and something kind of like technical almost.

And it ended up becoming my story of how I overcame those limiting beliefs that I led myself to believe because of the society, because of everything that we see on the outside.

So that was my healing journey.

- Yes, and what do you want us to take away from what we just witnessed?

- I would love for people to really go deep inside of themselves and tap into this inner beauty that we all have.

So I became the inner beauty advocate because it has changed my life in so many ways that I really would like for people to experience what I have experienced when I was able to really reconnect with my beauty, my inner beauty.

And it really changed every aspect of my life after I've done that.

So I hope that people get what I got by going into this journey and not allowing myself to be.

- Yes, let me turn to you Anu Sood on behalf of Pine Rest.

Are you seeing, I'll just go with perhaps the stereotype, younger women experiencing mental health challenges with today's world, where we have a quest for beauty.

- Yeah, we really have seen an uptick in the amount of young adults, particularly females that come in that are struggling with either a full-blown eating disorder or even just disordered eating.

And I think that there's a lot of factors at play here.

I think the pandemic has been a real stressor for a lot of people and it's really kind of disrupted many things about their normal day to day lives.

There's been a social isolation piece that's been pretty prominent with a pandemic that I think contributes to the eating disorder symptoms.

But I also think that social media definitely plays a role in kind of perpetuating some of these eating disorder behaviors.

Over the past decade or so, I would say there's been kind of an increase in the number of pro eating disorder websites and social media pages that have just kind of proliferated.

So I have a lot of young adults that come in and they are really struggling with kind of the beauty ideals that they see on social media and trying to emulate some of those things.

- Yes, David would you grade to our media world?

And I know you also work in the world of pageantries, where would you like to discuss these topics?

- Well, let's talk about the media.

First, I mean, what's ironic is that, the media has always set the standard, whether it was before we had social media, when I was a little boy, the media set the standard for what was beautiful.

We watched our TV shows and we watched "The Brady Bunch" and all the little girls wanted to have long blonde hair like the girls did on "The Brady Bunch."

And the boys always wanted to be athletic and all American ish.

And they really did set the standard for what was acceptable and what was normative.

And it's kind of ironic that now, since we're consuming even more media with social media and especially young people are just consuming gobs of media, that we get more of this coming in, constantly setting new standards.

And sometimes these standards are very one dimensional with social media.

We learn that beautiful people are successful in general and successful people are beautiful.

I mean, that seems to be the formula that we follow.

And for some, for some people who consume media, this becomes their reality.

They think that this, that what they see is real when in fact the reality is filtered, the reality is surgically enhanced, the reality isn't reality at all, but in our minds, it becomes reality and it becomes what I have to live up to.

And in some cases we can't, I can not grow the muscles that some of those boys can grow apparently.

And I'm tired of trying by the way, or I think to myself, that some people can not look the way, if somebody has alopecia for example, or some other type of physical difference, they can't look this way, but that's the standard that's set for us through the media.

I think that the key for social media, especially with young people, whether it has control over you or whether you have control over the media and whether, like I look at media, but I see it as entertainment.

And I don't judge myself based on that.

I don't find that for example, with my students necessarily, I don't find that same level of reality.

And sometimes also the influence that we see through social media, we say it's bad.

Everybody says, "Oh, social media is bad.

Oh, it does this, it does this," but we do the same things that are personally.

Ironically, we do the exact same things, when we're interacting with people and we treat people who look better, we treat them better.

I mean, there's study after study that shows that they're more likely to be selected for jobs, for leadership positions.

We give all types of positive characteristics to them and we act that way and it's kind of reinforced.

And so, personally what I think we need to do, is what I do all the time with my students and say, "Tell me great things about you."

And it's amazing when we're talking about inner beauty, it's amazing the number of students who are just stumped and will say, "I can't think of anything great."

And I'm like, "Well, I can, and I'll start you."

And then let's keep going because this needs to be the new script that we hear.

- Right, it can be a change of thought.

Tell me, Rachael, if you would bring me into the sporting world.

- Yeah, well, personally, I was so involved with what my performances were like as a runner and how I appeared as a runner, that it really led me down this dark path of struggling with an eating disorder for so long.

And I see other athletes tell very similar stories about wanting to appear a certain way because of the success that they seem to get from it, from a very small period of time, is the only thing that seems to make them happy.

So I really liked what Dave said and Cris said about the inner beauty part of it, feeling like they are more than just an athlete and more than just how they appear in their sport.

That's just so important and it was something I really had to look into in my own eating disorder recovery.

- Yes, Wafa take us globally.

Are we doing, are we questing for beauty globally here?

- I don't know a Shelley.

I take that social media portrays beauty in a very stereotypical sort of standard.

I mean, maybe we view beauty through our lenses of what beauty is in the standard western society.

We don't account for genetics and we don't account for racial and ethnic variation at all.

I think one of the panelists mentioned, I think maybe it was David who said our vision of beauty is this skinny or the buff guy, or the skinny gal with the long hair, the blonde hair or whatever.

And that's not necessarily the norm in other parts of the world.

There are cultures that celebrate prosperity by, if you are too skinny, that's actually a negative, okay?

And that's not how we see beauty through the western lens.

And other cultures there's tattoos or longer hair, or the skin tone.

So I think beauty varies and I don't think that we are doing our best.

I think there is improvement, but as far as social media is concerned, there's a very superficial and unrealistic portrayal of what idealistic beauty should be, okay?

One of the interesting things that I came across when you mentioned this topic to me, was that Michigan actually, the state of Michigan is the only state that actually protects weight as a class of, protected class against discrimination.

So weight discrimination is illegal only in Michigan at a state level.

So, I mean, if we have a lot of growth in this area, there's 50 states and there's only one state that actually has a state law that says you can discriminate on the basis of weight.

- Yes, thank you for that, of course, with your legal background reminder.

Cris, bringing you back into the conversation, you self-disclosed some domestic violence in your life, how do we prevent?

How do we not let it get that far?

What's our first line of defense?

Tell me more here.

- Yeah, this is a very complicated topic and I would love for people to start talking more about it.

And sometimes it takes one person, and I love the idea of having seen so many women speaking up and I think because of all, and even men.

Men also suffer from domestic abuse.

And because of them, I feel like I felt empowered to share my story, even though like to this day, I shake when the subject comes up.

And in my specific case and talking to other, like I had the opportunity of talking to other women about this.

It was really the low self-esteem because the abuse, it rarely starts with the physical, but starts with the mental.

And then I didn't have that strong, I didn't feel strong about myself, about how I look about how my life was going.

And in my head, I had, I was already old and then you have someone that kind of banked on your low self-esteem.

I was like, "Yeah, you're old, you this and that.

And then if you don't stick around, you're never going to get married."

I was already an engaged person.

So, all of those monsters started to come out of the closet for me.

And I was not strong to say this is enough, I deserve better than this, this is not serving any purpose.

And other women shared the same, is that they didn't feel good enough.

They didn't feel that they deserve better than that.

And whether they were feeling old or they felt that their appearance had changed, or the economic situation sometimes can be an issue and then you kind of trapped in a situation where you don't think you have the means, the intelligence to go out and make a living on your own because you have that person constantly pushing you down and saying that you're not good enough, you're not smart enough, you're not pretty enough and then you never gonna find anybody.

So that can be, I mean, it is very detrimental, right?

And also the fact that we need somebody in our lives in order to be happy, in order to be fulfilled or to be someone, which is not true when they understood that I'm married to the nicest person on earth, but until I didn't love myself and I didn't find that confidence inside of me, it was impossible for me to vibrate that in order to attract somebody that would value me for who I am, not how I look, because the looks they change.

Something that is real, something that it is like, you can define beauty as something real.

If you defining beauty by something that changes, like our appearances change, and this is how it's supposed to be but our core values, our essence, that doesn't change.

It's only evolved.

I mean, you only peel off the layers and then you really become who you are, the older you are, right?

So, yeah.

- Right, anyone to follow that up, jump in, David?

- I agree, I agree with everything and you're right.

You do get better as you get older.

Although Ironically, as you get older, you start to get stereotyped as well and you start to be labeled a certain way.

And it's so ironic because again, advertisers teach us to label.

I mean, okay, ironically, this is bizarre.

I have a tube of toothpaste on my desk, but advertisers teach us that to look at the outside label and I'll know what's on the inside.

I know that there's so much Colgate in here.

I know what it tastes like.

And we tried to do that with people and we can't, we can't do that with people, but we have to be able to judge.

And judging isn't bad, judging sometimes keeps me from doing bad things.

I judge and it's bad and I don't want to do it, but we need to be able to judge people individually for who they are.

- Anu let me get into the world, again, of eating disorders.

Why do young women and young men turn to this, perhaps as a quest for beauty?

- Yeah, I think the important thing to remember, is that eating disorders, diagnosed eating disorders are a psychiatric condition.

And so there's a lot of factors that go into play.

I think the media is just kind of one component of it.

I think that even societaly, I think that there's unattainable beauty standards and beauty ideals that we're bombarded with on a daily basis.

And so, I think for young people in particular, those additional messages can be really hard to navigate if they're already struggling with an underlying depressive or anxious symptoms of depression or anxiety can really come to the surface.

I think that it's sort of a perfect storm.

Usually there's kind of that underlying propensity for depression or anxiety, which then is coupled with these messages that they're getting societaly about their bodies, and then it can morph into an eating disorder.

And I think that's when parents or caregivers, or loved ones, are alerted that it's time to intervene and do something.

This is serious, this is more serious than just kind of having a conversation about this.

It's something that's gonna require some additional support and intervention.

- Rachael, what is your advice for coaches like yourself that see the warning signs of an adolescent that may be hurting, hear herself?

- Yeah, well, something I learned from my own experience, was that it's not always easy to see a physical appearance.

So a lot of people think eating disorders as someone who's very thin and a macerated, and it doesn't always look that way.

So it's really important to be looking for specific behaviors.

A lot of athletes or just the general population will start a diet.

And dieting is often a huge trigger in beginning disordered eating, which can lead into an eating disorder.

So coaches in particular can reach out to their athletes, get to really know them so that they have this close bond and relationship.

That's the great part about coaching, I'm a coach myself.

And start that conversation, really have that open dialogue and ask how they're doing.

Really get into learning about the athlete beyond just their sport.

And then naming specific behaviors that they're noticing in the athlete.

Maybe they're not attending team dinners, maybe they seem really isolated or they seem really tired in their workouts.

You're naming specific behaviors and not necessarily appearances.

And then you'll want to follow up likely with the athletic trainer because they can direct the athlete to specific resources.

Make sure you continue to have honest conversations with them and just know that it's okay if the athlete doesn't completely share everything that's going on right away, but just by having those open honest conversations, you're showing that you care and that's the main message behind it because athletes and everyone, anyone who's struggling with an eating disorder, it's not just the physical appearance that they're struggling with.

It's usually something deeper.

- Yes, Wafa put your mom hat on.

Now, what are you telling your daughters and your son?

Does this come up at the dinner table?

Do do you worry about this quest for beauty in a young person?

- Everyday Shelley, I think it starts as early as middle school, the labeling and the peer pressure to appear a certain way.

And I think like Anu said, this is multi-faceted, it's not just social media, but it's peer pressure.

In school, children if they don't wear certain things or dress a certain way, they're labeled a certain way.

If you have a pink colored hair or green colored hair, then you belong to this group, or if you're wearing dark colored clothes and you belong to that group.

And if you don't do any of those other things, then you're not the cool kid, or maybe you were left alone at the lunch table.

And that's ongoing everyday struggle.

And I see that with my kids.

I've seen that with some of my students in the past, and they've confided in me and asked me for advice.

And I think that open conversation and really, really driving home, this idea, that beauty and that identity is not just superficial.

It's subjective, it's not just skin deep.

And you're going to work out and be healthy or choose your friends based on their strengths and their personality and their qualities.

And you're taking care of yourself physically, not because you want to appear a certain way because you want to be stronger.

Just emphasizing the positive things that help them build their character and their confidence.

And that I think, just that open form of communication without judgment, because children don't always make the perfect decision.

Sometimes they will choose to be the cool kid and follow some unrealistic idea of try to attain some unrealistic, should I say, standard of beauty or give into peer pressure.

And that's okay, it's okay to make mistakes, but as long as you are continuously talking to them and building their confidence, I think that's the only way at this level.

At least as a mother, I've found that if I keep those channels of communications open, they will confide in me more and then I can guide them.

So that maybe they're not only succumb to peer pressure, they succumb to mom pressure and have some that positivity to carry with them in their future lives.

And build that positive self-esteem when there are later on interviewing for a job or looking for those qualities in a spouse.

And know that they're worth more than what other people want them to be.

- Yes, back to messaging.

And the message is clear with what you're wearing.

Cris, in addition to, I mean, look at, I mean, inner beauty, is there something below beauty?

Will save the world.

Now, if all of us wore that T-shirt once a week, we'd hit our target audiences.

Tell me more about, well, the shirt, and how best from your word, share this message, prevent if we can even go there?

- Yeah, I love what Wafa just shared about having this open conversation with their kids and I think this was wonderful.

And so then, a parent can better guide them.

So the shirt is actually my version of the (indistinct), He said that, "Beauty will save the world," and I believe that inner beauty.

So when we best express the very best that we have inside of us, and we all do, it's just a matter of allowing ourselves to share this beauty.

The ancient philosophers, they talk about beauty and truth.

And so, beauty, truth and love, and compassion, all these beautiful qualities that we have inside, once we have that on the outside, that's when we can really make an impact on each other's life because we vibrate that.

And not only we attract what we vibrate, but also, we change our environment and we change how other people feel based on how we vibrate.

And there's a beautiful reflection from (indistinct) like this beautiful spiritual leader that I really admire, that he said that he likes to see people as sees tree, and then you have a tall tree that's skinny, and then you have another one that's short, has a lot of fruits, and then there's another one that's dry, nut then coming in a little, little buds and flowers, and one has a (indistinct), the other one doesn't.

And all different colors and shapes and textures and all that.

And when we see a forest that it just has like super diverse, like what a beautiful forest, but then the second that we go into interacting with people, we start judging them, "Oh, look at that person or that one doesn't have a hair or that one has too much hair."

So if we could keep that judgment, like David said, judgment is not necessarily as a bad thing, but like, if we could judge people like we judge trees and see them as beautiful trees the way they are, and it doesn't matter how they look, it's like they have something to offer.

So that's what I love about it.

- Yes, thank you for your work.

I need quick resources from each of you?

Cris, I will begin with you.

- Questforbeauty.com/movie, You can find everything about the film, the social media, and how to watch it, and the PBS schedules.

And the shirts, if you're interested in sharing beauty with the world.

- Yes, David.

- Yeah, Aquinas College website, aquinas.edu, and I'm there.

And I would also say that for those people who don't have the family support that we're talking about here, to use other resources like counselors or people at school, so that there can be a conversation to be had because unfortunately, not all family systems provide that kind of support.

- Great, Rachael Steil?.

- Yeah, you can contact me at runninginsilence.org.

I run the nonprofit to raise awareness for eating disorders and sports.

And we have a list of resources and specific providers for anyone who's struggling.

- Wafa?

- Yes, you can just Google me.

Wafa Adib-Lobo or safeharborlegalplc.net.

And you'll find me out there.

I'm happy to help anyone who needs help, counseling.

Otherwise, connect them to people who can help them if not myself.

- On behalf of Pine Rest, thank you Anu Sood.

How do we continue the conversation with you?

- Sure, so Pine Rest has a wonderful website.

It's pinerest.org, and you can locate a therapist based on their area of expertise.

Another resource I wanted to mention, is the National Eating Disorders Association website.

They have a wonderful patient family toolkit that opens dialogue around eating disorder discussions.

- Thank you all for your conversation on this very important subject.

Good day to you.

And thank you for watching Family Health Matters.

I'm Shelley Irwin.

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