Hello, and thanks for joining us for another episode of Mid American gardener.

I'm your host Tinisha, Spain.

And joining me in studio today are two of our favorite panelists.

We've got Phil and Shane in the house.

So introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about you.

Before we take off.

We'll start with you.

I'm Phil Nixon, I'm a retired extension entomologist with the University of Illinois.

And in a model just means insects or bugs so I can handle those types of questions.

And maybe something else too.

Who knows?

Excellent.

All right, Shane.

I'm Shane cultra.

I'm retired horticulturalist I am one of the owners of country arbors nursery, but my brother and family are doing a great job there now while I sleep and rest and play in the garden.

And so I get to do all the things that I get to talk to everybody else about I'm getting to do myself.

Yeah, and you've been traveling a lot too.

I have seen and you want to come in and record can't.

I'm in so three springs.

That was one of the most exciting things I have this year like grass fill.

Yeah, so I got to see our spring and then I went and saw Aspen spring and then I saw Leadville spring, so I got to see sea level in 6000 feet and then 10,000 feet so I saw that lilac bloom three times it was absolutely exploding living your best life.

Absolutely love that.

Love that.

Okay, let's jump in on the items that you guys brought.

Phil, we'll start with you.

And you are the member or president.

What is your status.

I'm president of the bonsai Society of Central Illinois, which meets on the University of Illinois campus on the first Tuesday of the month at seven in the evening.

So to plant sciences lab, so drop by and see us sometime you have to have a bonsai to get in.

Nope, don't even have don't have to own one.

Just have some interest in it.

We have some people that have come just to find out actually some people of Oriental origin who wanted to get back to roots a little bit by learn about bonsai.

So have any been always wondered about?

I hear you actually do these things.

Well, yeah, they are really, really interesting.

But brought in.

This is a crape myrtle.

Actually, it's a Myrtle that they call it.

It's a it's a smaller form of the regular crape myrtle.

It has smaller branching has, as the smaller trunk does branch a little bit better than a typical crape myrtle does.

And it has smaller leaves.

The leaf, Farber Brax, or the flowers are, are a little bit a little bit smaller to but it's a good size for a bone sight or a tree in a pot.

And this is one that I bought, I believe that at a nursery down by Fe ham, about eight years ago or so it's called a Myrtle that it's actually a smaller version of crape myrtle, like I said, and it happened to be in bloom.

So I thought I'd bring it along just so that you can have the typical bone size you tend to think about are going to be pines and spruces and junipers and so on.

But there's a bunch of us that are interested in deciduous tree bonsai.

And some of those will bloom and put on quite a show.

So this isn't, this is a plant that is not Hardy in most of the Midwest, owning the southern part of the Midwest centrally from i 70, South probably would be a good good clue as far as when you where you might be able to grow that.

And they do have crape myrtles that are sold in nurseries that are quote Hardy in zone five, which is a central part of the Midwest.

But Hardy is is that it will grow during the summer and then freeze down to the ground in the winter and come back up.

And so this one did not do that this one's been above ground and going well for a number of years.

So it's good too.

It's probably hardly down to about 10 degrees Fahrenheit I would guess.

And so we overwinter it in a little greenhouse we have that actually want to see me DJ says scoot that over just a little bit.

I think you actually have time to look at my drop leaves this will drastically it will drop its leaves, or it may keep in mind just depends.

If it gets a little bit of a cold snap it will it will tend to drop its leaves it's primarily to us.

But and even if it goes keep its leaves, it will tend to push out the old leaves of the new leaves as it comes on in the spring.

So So yeah, it really is deciduous, although it can hang on to its leaves.

So we have a little greenhouse that we keep to where the temperature doesn't get any lower than then the high 20s on on Sub Zero nights.

So, so it's, it stays healthy and good in that situation, it does need a winter period, it cannot survive really very long, which is totally being treated as a tropical plant.

So it's a, it's kind of a difficult one for here, but it's really kind of special, it's part of the fun and part of the fun Yeah, at anytime.

Any, any gardener as they mature, gets to the point of trying to grow things that they should never try to grow.

If they can do it, well, it's all in the search of having something that somebody else doesn't.

And the reason they don't have it is because it normally does not grow, right?

Somehow you're, you're gonna be the one that gets into your yard that nobody else has.

So this is one of the more challenging this will be a challenging time.

Primarily because of its winter needs.

If you do not have a cold greenhouse, you could, you can kind of get by with once it once it got to where the the elite got enough cold and leaves are no longer functioning, you can move it into a a garage.

If it's an attached garage.

Normally, those aren't going to freeze or very little base just barely freeze inside or a crawlspace would be another way in which first gonna do it.

If it doesn't have any leaves.

It doesn't need any light.

Okay, it's kind of a good rule of thumb.

It's just gonna say that's a good rule of thumb.

So probably not the best for beginners.

Not a beginner play at all right, but certainly kind of a while II type thing.

Gotcha.

Okay, thank you.

Alright, shame were to you.

Yeah, well, I have I brought him a one of my favorite grasses.

So the great thing that as opposed to the bones I that we just saw one of them all grasses are about as easy to grow as any anything we have in Illinois.

But I want to make it challenging because there are a couple of grasses that are borderline Hardy.

And this one is a Miscanthus.

So it's very similar to a lot of the grasses you see.

But there's two varieties called cabaret and cosmopolitan.

And they look very similar.

Cosmopolitan, which is this one has green in the middle and white on the outside.

And cabaret has white on the inside and green.

So look from a distance, they look pretty similar until you get up close.

But they are in that five V, which is normally kind of the zone we're in.

But as we all talk about time, we don't know what zone we're at zones kind of moving a little bit, so it's getting a little easier to grow as we go as time passes, our zones are getting a little warmer.

It's really good for the backyard.

So if you have an enclosed backyard or you have an area that you have other plants, this grass is perfect.

If you're out in the middle of the country, and you want a windbreak, maybe not the best choice for you.

But it does have this beautiful plumes.

It gets six or seven feet tall and wide.

And so it just has a huge splash of color.

And I use it as a backdrop against a fence and then I have some hydrangeas in front of it.

Because it gives a little little protection from the sun.

Because it's big enough at six foot seven foot button that as wide, you're just getting a plant that provides structure and also can provide a little shade for something underneath it.

And then in the fall, it just takes one step up in beauty with these fronds.

And it's just a really nice plant.

But again, everybody wants to put it out as a windbreak because they'll see that individual plant and it just is more of a specimen stick it in a more protected area in the back two questions.

Yeah.

Number one, when you can you divide this clumps grasses, if anybody's ever divided a big grass, it is one of the most difficult things to dig up.

It's like digging a tree.

Yeah, it is brutal.

So we'll have a customer to say Hey, could you just dig up that little grass and move it over there?

And I go, why don't I just dig out the oak tree?

Because it's essentially the same amount of work.

But yes, it can be once you get it up.

Hatch it saw Oh, yeah, exactly something to cut it up.

And it is, it is a good time to do it.

But one of the things about grasses is they don't root up really well later in the season.

So September is getting to be the time when you really want to start planting your grasses.

If you're going to die Do you want to do it now it's probably best to do in August or even earlier.

But if you're going to plant grasses, so if you come out to the nursery and you pick up a grass, I'd like to see that done before first week in October.

You can get it later with some super Hardy ones.

But this being a little more temperamental.

The sooner the better to get those in to you said you had a second question question.

Do you leave that up over the winter months because I've heard a lot of people talk about the ornamental.

Ornamental there are some grasses that tend to break off and cause problems where the fronds get all dirty and they're all over the yard.

This one is strong enough it never moves.

And so I leave it on until the first signs of green in the spring.

So once I see some green I bring that saws all that fill lets me borrow and I just cut it across off, and cut that grass down and let that new grass take over.

And one more secret.

Occasionally we'll have grasses that die out in the middle.

So you get that ring where you have the middle dead, I'll take a posthole digger, I'll dig out that middle and I'll plant the same grass in that same spot.

So it's a lot of work because you know, digging up that grass is difficult.

But if you can get that middle out where it's dead, I'll just put in some more soil, plant a new grass in there, and then that fills in so the grass is the same size as it was before.

Okay, and then so next year, you know, does the clump get larger?

Do the bubbles essentially doubles in size every year?

That's this one's had 18 years.

So it's an incredibly large and you can see it from everywhere.

The reason people can they can see it from the walking path into my backyard.

And people ask me, what is that grass?

It's amazing how many people will knock on my door and ask what a plant is.

Wow.

Which either says that I look friendly, or that plants pretty nice.

Yeah, either one.

Yeah, because I've done it too.

I've done it too.

If you see something that catches your eye, you just have to know we're just praying that they're a gardener that they just didn't plan it, or the landscaper didn't put it in, they'll be like, I don't know, well get out the identifier thing.

That's the apps and or again, I bring Phil I say hey, Phil, can I get your saulsville and you to come over here and help me.

I'll just take a little piece out which plan is Yeah.

All right.

Awesome.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Okay, Phil, you send in some pictures of insects as you love to do so.

Take it away.

Well, when you're small, it's kind of hard to do a show and tell.

So this is one of the smallest ones you're ever going to run across.

This is abandoned whitefly, as you can see by the adult on to the left in the screen.

This one has two horizontal dark bands running across its wings.

And this is a whitefly, which lives on a common weed, button weed or velvet leaf, it's commonly referred to kind of a very large leaves looks almost tropical, has almost heart shaped leaves that are very velvety and smooth on top.

And these will live on the underneath side and build up to very high numbers by by the late summer, early fall.

And from there, then they have a tendency to fly around and move around.

We also have a close relative of it, which is a silver leaf whitefly that, that will that will end up getting on leaves and and somewhere I did send in a picture that showed it on a leaf but there it is, there we go.

And, and essentially this is gives you an idea of the sizes as I discussed leaf which would be probably about five inches long, four inches long, so you can get an idea of the size.

But they're for the most part about pinhead size.

And, and to be frank about it, I got the idea by sitting in my yard yesterday and I could see to whitefly adults flying by my face.

So they are out they look like pinhead sized little white pieces of fluff that are just kind of floating along.

They don't, they're not really strong fliers, and they will show up on essentially every plant that you have.

But important thing to realize is the reason you only get these as a problem.

late summer, early fall, they're more of a tropical insect or subtropical, and actually do better in greenhouses.

Even large numbers like you see here are even four or five times this amount, are unlikely to cause any serious damage because they're only at the point where they're going to be doing adult feeding, which is primarily or a maintenance type feeding, you know you're eating enough to keep yourself going keep yourself alive.

When they're young ones when they're nymphs on the leaves and they look just like flat spots on the leaves.

Those individuals will do a lot of damage sucking up of juices because they're getting enough to grow on.

And it's kind of like having teenagers versus adults in the house.

You go through a lot more food with youngsters that are growing.

And so and so they they can do damage.

But thankfully, in the Midwest, we really in America, we only really have this, these insects showing up in very high numbers.

In the fall of the year when it's really too late.

In the year the plants are no longer lead Ninos leads very much.

And they're not feeding heavily enough in high enough numbers to cause any real serious damage and some a lot of people get upset about them.

They see all these white bugs that fly out.

When they get in around their garden.

You'll see them a lot on tomatoes, for instance, a lot on squash, watermelon, they'll just be heavier than can be on those, but they're really not going to cause any much harm at this time of the year.

Because the plants are kind of scaling down Aren't they're filling out those fruit and and they don't really a nice insects are not causing a lot of damage and of course the ones that are abandoned wing which feed on only on a weed in our in our garden we don't need to really worry a whole lot about them and so and so this is all a case of the living let live if you see the little white specks or pinhead size white insects around or on your plants, don't worry about it if you feel you have to do something, use some insecticidal soap or just literally wash them off with a stream of water if that makes you feel better but but they're not really they're not really causing any harm it's it's too late too little time to do anything so either the fruit or the vegetable it's more so the leave this on the leaves as western Iran we do get these some people will buy transplants in the spring and and many of those transplants are grown in Georgia, Alabama areas in the south and they will and they will get attacked by the silver leaf white flies then and there you are in a case of where you need to be properly spraying the undersides of leaves.

We greenhouses, we have that issue.

Yeah, weekly with insecticidal soap to knock them back.

Otherwise they can really kill your young tomato seedlings and, and make it so you have a poor crop, you end up with fruit that are that are undersized and have yellow spots all over them and things like this.

They're just not.

They're just not getting the nutrients they need because it's being sucked out by these guys on the leaves.

Or in the case of a grower.

You just have a crop you can sell Yeah, nobody will buy it.

Yeah, when they're carpeted.

And when you pick it up, because yeah, that's what it is.

It just they just fall.

Yeah.

time a year, you know, worry about something that's important about whether that oak tree is going to turn right cutter leaf or not just worry about those sorts of things.

For this one, okay.

Fair enough.

All right, Shane, we're back to you.

And yeah, if you've been if you've been watching, you know that Shane's got lots of new hobbies.

Well, that's exactly right.

I was addicted to honey coming into this.

And now that I have more time, I'm more addicted to honey.

And I actually just brought you gifts.

I really didn't plan on talking about it.

But it is one of my favorite honeybees.

And it's Blackberry, honey, and Blackberry.

Honey is the only honey that tastes like the fruit.

So everybody sees these honeys that are based on the flowers of all these fruits.

But the flower doesn't really take on the fruit today, an orange might have a zest to it.

And a cranberry might have a little tinge at the end of it.

But in general, it's not blackberries different.

It tastes like blackberry jam.

So it's it is everything that you would get from a spreadable jam, but in honey form, so you can put it on your biscuits.

And so I love bringing it to people because I think I put something in it.

And this is literally from the hive strained and not touched at all not heated and nothing.

And that's the flavor that comes out.

And it's just amazing that nature can put out a flavor like that.

Wow.

So did you how did you orchestrate this?

Yeah, so this is another story.

I liked it.

So I was introduced by Maggie, who's a very popular beekeeper in this area, to a an apiary out on the East Coast, that takes truckloads of bees and goes to crops.

So they go to the lime, and the oranges and the cranberry.

So the people that produce these fruits, and they bring the bees to help pollinate to have better yields.

And what you get because of that is bees don't care where they go.

So they see Blackberry, that's great, but they're gonna go over here and go to a maple or whatever else.

So the flavors are very mixed.

But when you have an apiary that goes and does one giant crops you do hundreds of acres of one type of plant, the honey is particular to that plant and you just don't find that very often.

And so she's introduced me to them and so when they have their honey they are pure of a plant wherever they're traveling to go and the result is there you know, they make their money by by providing their bees and the honey is a gift that they get and so they do sell to help support themselves.

And I'm the man to take it there's just there's not very much I mean I think in this is a huge operation and I think they had 600 700 pounds of BlackBerry so it's really not that much honey so it's really good and I found sour wood in Appalachian area to that is like gold they will to find the sour weed and it's a sweet honey it says our way but it's actually a very sweet honey.

So it's just I know people don't geek out on this kind of stuff.

But when you to find very unique flavors that I can put out, I call it a flight a flight of honey.

And after you've tasted them you can come back and say exactly what every single one is, you know, a distinct flavor to me that's exciting that we love and retiring.

Tiny I use sugar is gone from my house.

Everything is just squeezing honey on it.

So you'll We'll see once I give you a little taste of all that stuff, I brought you some bottles.

And one more thing.

My biggest fan has moved into town into the viewing area and I just want to say Mom, thank you for watching she's been hasn't gotten to see me live or kind of while she lived in town so she's a huge fan.

She talks about all of you someday I'll have to bring her into the studio so that she can meet but she's one of the reasons that I love garden of course my father's in the business but my mom always had that perennial garden my mom had the perennial garden in the 70s the things that are so popular now my mom had no he was a buffet his trends Wow or she loves she loves this town because our town here is just loving horticulture and loving plants and she is inherited love to have her in the studio.

So you're welcome.

Thank you mom for everything.

Yeah, I never flavored honey but Smith's fairly common as you get in the south.

And I did this I was down there on a trip and drove by an area and they had were selling tupelo honey.

And it was like $18 a pound.

Typically honey is gonna be $1 and a half.

But this was stuff it was.

It was it was just like you normally would see in a you know in the Midwest where somebody's selling, selling sweet corn out of the back of their truck or pumpkins.

East we're selling tupelo honey out of the back of a pickup on old broken down making money that doesn't crystallize.

It's the only so if somebody sells you real pure Tupelo, it shouldn't ever crystals make a mess?

Yes, it's that's the great thing about Tupelo.

And of course, Tupelo is a swamp tree.

It grows in swampy areas.

And so in order to get that, that honey, you have to put the beehives down in that area when they're blooming and pull them out when they're no longer.

And, you know, they have to go into the swamp to get these things.

And so it commands a high price.

If you if you remember back years ago, there was a movie called Julie's gold and Julie's gold was one of his gold that was in the movie.

It was Peter Fonda in the movie, and it was Tupelo, honey, and he was surrounded by a 55 gallon drum and making his entire living off of selling tupelo honey.

We've got to move on to the butterflies.

Oh, yeah, we can't end the show without their show without but hey, we anytime you know, we're guys, we'll talk about honey.

We're about to experience the great migration.

Yes, that's right.

And we actually saw my wife's on accumulation or yard sale for champagne just a couple of days ago.

This is a time when the monarch butterflies are amassing.

They will massed together into small groups which will then coalesce into larger groups, which will then take off and fly and and they will migrate down throughout essentially anywhere west of the Appalachian Mountains and east of the Rocky Mountains.

Up and all the way up into Canada will all amass and migrate down into a small area of mountainous Mexico that has the right climate, the right trees to sit in to overwinter to spend the winter.

And the same butterfly that may have may have grown up in the southern part of a Canadian province will fly all the way to where you see the.in and central Mexico we are arrows in hours go to Texas, ours go to ours go to Mexico, Mexico cars go all the way a whole way.

So Midwestern ones go all the way down on the East Coast.

They go to Florida.

On the west coast.

They go to some areas around St. Louis Obispo, and other areas south of San Francisco and even as far south as the Bohai and so on.

They have several different places there but they all go to one place in Mexico, an area that several many square miles, but ones that go back only make it into Texas.

And so you can see in the graphic that's on your screen, those dark ones that go up and end in southern Texas.

That's essentially where all of our butterflies die.

If they if they are successful, because they will go down all the way down south.

Terrible, they will spend the winter they will get up there into southern Texas.

They will lay mate and lay eggs and and then they die.

And it's their kids that come on up into Oklahoma and their kids that come on up into southern Illinois and their kids that go on up in through Ohio and Indiana and Illinois and their kids that go on up into Minnesota you get the idea.

Americans that make it all the way to two, two to Canada, so it's four or five generations in order to get to Canada.

But then they all come back down to Mexico.

And one of the interesting features that you end up wondering is there several generations remote from those that were in Mexico?

How do they know where to go?

How do they know where to go?

There's a Nobel Prize and that answer interesting, you know, but if you want to go back to one of the shows the butterflies, they will show up.

And we're normally sitting this is sat with closed wings like this, most of the time, they don't have their wings open.

And so you kind of look at the way you identify a mass is that it looks like the leaves are, are kind of turning yellow on a tree or something and you get closer enough.

And you realize you're looking at the backside of the monarch wings.

And that's how you kind of identify and that's why I've identified him I go, what's wrong with those trees?

Maybe they got a disease or something or they're turning yellow earlier, something in the fall, and you get close enough.

And it's and it's monarchs and it's hundreds.

If you really look close, you can see Google Maps that they're all going over the map to get home.

They gotta go in a little tiny iPad.

Thank you for coming in.

Thank you so much for watching.

If you have any questions, send them into us at your garden@gmail.com and we will see you next time.

Good night.