(gentle music) - Age is something that we're all gonna have if we're lucky.

But we still have all these stereotypes and attitudes that cuts older people short.

- As you age, you don't get the attention.

- So I mean, it's kinda like that invisibility that at some point people lose the sense of you as a person and treat you differently.

And it permeates the healthcare profession.

It permeates businesses.

It permeates almost any place you go.

- The new staff that came in decided basically that I was too old to make a difference with young children.

And that's so interesting to me because within the next years, there are supposed to be, in the United States, more people 85 and above than those zero to five.

And so with that in mind, we've got to know that a huge part of our population are gonna be folks just like me.

My main focus was to find the resources, the people that can assist us in being the best that we can be as we age.

- We have to start thinking differently about what it means to get older.

It's actually a joy, you know, to have the opportunity to be at a certain age and still be able to function and contribute.

I mean that's really a beautiful thing.

- Aging is an aspect of life that's both embraced and feared in our society.

- And it's often used as a separator in community.

úAre you a baby boomer, Gen X, Gen Z, Alpha?

The list goes on.

And depending on where you fall, there can be life-changing implications like eligibility for certain aid programs or ease of finding employment.

- We put a call out to our community to share their viewpoints on aging and those that answered happen to be women.

So today on "Mutually Inclusive", we're diving into West Michigan women's perspective on aging, ageism, and the impact they have.

(gentle music) (gentle music continues) (gentle music continues) (gentle music continues) Aging, it's something that affects everyone every day with the passing of each given second.

There's the saying, "Another year older, "another year wiser."

Yet there's still a fear and stigma attached to aging.

Why?

- There's a lot of evidence that shows that it harms people physically and emotionally and in other ways to be continually stereotyped in any way and age is also one of those.

- I kind of like to think about aging in 10 years segments 'cause each of those is so very different.

And then there's ageism, which is how people perceive you, those stereotypes, discrimination, as well as how we perceive ourselves.

So we have our own internal barometer when we look in the mirror and see ourselves aging.

What other people are gonna see in terms of ageism, that can be workplace discrimination, walking down the mall.

- [Host] Dr. Priscilla Kimboko and Dr. Carolyn King offer distinct perspectives when talking about the impacts of aging in America.

King is a licensed psychiatrist while Kimboko is a former dean and current professor at Grand Valley State University, where she teaches a course on opportunities in aging society.

- Well, I am a passionate about the topic because in our society there are all kinds of isms.

Age is something that we're all gonna have if we're lucky.

But we still have all these stereotypes and attitudes that cuts older people short, cuts them off at the knees, that ignores them, or that has beliefs about older people of a certain age.

In my class, what I try to do is I actually have mostly young people, right and so I want them to tell me what they think their life will be like at the age 70.

Out of that comes all the stereotypes.

Well, I won't be working, I won't be this, I won't be that.

And by the time the class ends, they know about finance issues, they know about job issues, they know about healthy aging strategies.

So I mean, I think the thing my class does best is it eases the fears of young people about getting older.

- [Host] It's no secret that aging causes mixed adverse reactions from communities.

While some see it as an opportunity to live, grow, and prosper, others see it as a fearful part of the unknown.

- So I was at a women's conference way back when I just had turned 40 and I saw the young women who were in their twenties worried because they're gonna turn 30 and that will be like the end of life in some ways and the same and there was a lot of fear in that room from women about being old.

And then there were two older women who were in their sixties there and they say, "You're gonna love 50 and you're gonna love 60."

You know what I mean?

So they, dispelling the the fears because that's what all those things do is they're based on fear.

- Studies show a myriad of factors associated with negative thoughts on aging.

A 2014 survey by Pfizer showed decline of physical ability was the most feared aspect, followed by memory loss, having a chronic disease, and running out of money, all of which scored higher than the fear of dying.

It also found of the 4.2 million tweets posted about aging that year, 62% held negative sentiments.

Skip forward to the 2020 era with impacts of COVID-19.

And this study published in the National Institutes of Health shows the effect that media and messaging had on views of older adults with characterizations like helpless, frail, and unable to contribute to society.

The study found, while some figures shown may have been scientifically accurate, others and overall portrayals perpetuate negative age-based stereotypes.

Do you feel like that's an ongoing issue with ageism?

- I think there's a couple things.

First of all, when you get older, you do maybe have more physical ailments and you may need more attention, more time.

So part of it is how much time do you allow for the person who has more needs?

There's a lot of assumptions made.

And always the joke is that you know, you go to see the doctor because you're having trouble with your knee and the doctor says, "Ah, you know, what do you expect at your age?"

Right?

And the person, if they're sharp will say, "But I have two knees and the other one's fine.

"And it's the same age."

So it isn't a matter of age per se.

Doctors grow up in the same society and have the same set of stereotypes that they've lived with their whole life about older people and it permeates the healthcare profession and permeates businesses.

It permeates almost any place you go that people grew up with these beliefs and they haven't come to the realization that they just don't make sense.

You can't lump a whole 50 years worth of people's lives into one category and assume that all people are the same in that age group.

- [Host] It's not just physical health.

Aging and ageism can have an impact on sense of self-worth, social life, and even finances.

Take employment for example.

- Well a really interesting one is that the pandemic, so many people lost jobs and many people who were pretty advanced in their careers and quite knowledgeable and expert in their area.

But it's been very difficult for many of those people over 50 to find work again.

So once you hit some age, people have this notion that you're no longer capable.

Somehow you instantly use, lose all your expertise and ability to adapt.

I started this trajectory 40 years ago, but I just turned 80.

Here I am still teaching full time, still have some of my abilities, ya know.

I do physical activity, I do things, you know, that people say, "Wow, that's amazing at your age."

Like somehow living my life is amazing.

- [Host] A 2019 study from PayScale shows women reached their peak earnings at the age of 44 while men reached theirs at 55.

On top of that, the AARP shows about 64% of the 50 plus age workforce face age discrimination.

90% believe it's a common issue.

- So there is a push to push out people in certain professions who are over 50 and make room for the next generation.

And then what are we gonna do?

Because we do have a wealth of information.

- Well, there's protections in the workplace, but you know what?

You have to really, really, really take a risk to complain.

And because you may never get another job if you pursue some of those, it's really hard to prove.

You know, I don't think age discrimination is taken particularly seriously in the workplace.

Grand Valley doesn't have any protections on ageism.

We do have protections on lots of other things, but you won't see age as a factor in the list of things that we consider when we're looking at equity and inclusion.

- [Host] At 83 years old community member Betty Burton Groce knows this reality firsthand.

- I'm personally feeling it because I was doing something that kept me vibrant and on top of things and aware of the much younger generation.

And in June I was told, "We don't need you anymore."

And that was like just stunned me terribly.

Some of the young people that I see on occasion, they're like, Miss B, you should still be with us.

We need you.

But the new staff that came in decided basically that I was too old to make a difference with young children.

And that's so interesting to me because that's what keeps us growing.

- [Host] She, along with members of her church, First Community African Methodist Episcopal, saw an opportunity to invite older community members together and talk about these types of issues, celebrations of aging, and resources that can help older adults live to the best of their abilities.

- You have long been one who has worked with a group from your church, Abundant Living, and you kind of, you basically started that group.

Tell me about that particular group and what it is that you have been doing for the last number of years, working with that to make sure that people age well.

- It was the vision of our pastoral care associate minister to do something just with the elderly in our church family.

So that was in 2004 and we, our tagline has always been "Aging with quality of life."

- And what is it that you've been trying to instill in those who come to your group sessions?

- What we do is talk about all the positives that we still have, not only with our physical and cognitive, but also in our spiritual life.

And what, that makes a positive difference for so many of us.

That's always been one of my goals is whatever I start to do, attempt to do, I want it to be sustainable.

And so it has continued on and we have folks coming from different churches, which is really very interesting and very positive for us.

But we talk about everything from how to keep our bodies mobile to our nutrition.

So many of our people are single, alone, and it's very easy not to pay attention to how we eat, when we eat, and what we eat.

We've had people come in and talk to us about our insurance, how that helps us, the things that change every year for us.

- [Host] And in our community, there's a central location for many of these resources with the majority having ties to the area Agency on Aging of Western Michigan.

- They might know about us either by name or they've heard about a service that we might have.

For instance, like almost everyone has heard about Meals on Wheels and that's one of our main partners.

We have funding from the government.

And so we say we're gonna take a piece of that financial pie and give it to agencies that are doing really good work in the communities.

One of our really utilized programs is called "Engaging Wellness".

And that encompasses a whole bunch of programs and exercise and fitness classes.

And most of the time those programs are covered by someone's Social Security insurance.

You know, their health insurance.

- [Host] Liz Barnett is one of the organization's outreach specialists and comes from a 25 year background as a social worker.

- Area Agencies on Aging cover every county of, not only Michigan, but the United States.

And typically what that is talking about is anyone 60 and older.

Everyone would like to age in place, but if you don't have dignity or you don't have a say in your independence, then that's not really what most people are looking for.

- What are some of the things that you all can provide to help that move forwards?

- That's a simple question with a rather huge answer.

One of the pictures that we often use is a house.

We have our foundational programs that these are like the basement level, which usually have something to do with long-term care in a home setting.

And then we have kind of that middle level, which is about protecting seniors, elder abuse prevention or advocacy and then we also have dementia education.

And then the upper level is really general services that anyone can grab a hold of, talk to others about, have a presentation on where they think, "Oh good, I can utilize that service."

- Within the next years, there should be, there are supposed to be in the United States, more people 85 and above than those zero to five.

And so with that in mind, we've got to know that a huge part of our population are gonna be folks just like me.

- How important is it for you to continue that work?

- It's very important.

However, I desperately need help.

My main focus and my main responsibility as the facilitator of this was to find the resources, the people that can assist us in being the best that we can be as we age.

- But even as local organizations expand access to aid in areas like food, housing, and independence, there are other societal pressures and factors that discriminate when it comes to aging.

And for many women it's a common feeling of invisibility.

- So when you walk through a place, people look at you, but as you age, that's not what you get.

You don't get the attention.

- You know, even when you go shopping and you're looking for things, as an older person, you might need help or want help, but somehow you're not visible.

You're not the one that the staff turn to to assist.

So I mean, it's kinda like that invisibility that at some point you'll lose, people lose the sense of you as a person and treat you differently.

- [Host] For both men and women, growing older puts a target on their backs for specific products and advertisements, many of which, like the beauty industry, have vast mental health impacts.

In 2021, the National Council on Aging collaborated with Google to remove ageism from its marketing methods.

Yet other areas still persist.

- Well, there's a whole series of what they call "silver industries" and, of course, the keeping beautiful young look is a big part of that.

- [Host] The United States has the largest regional market for anti-aging cosmetics with $60 billion in revenue in the North American market each year.

In 2020, 15.6 million youth preserving procedures like plastic surgery were performed in America.

- It's built into our whole lives.

It's built into everyone's awareness.

Even young children kind of have already learned some of those stereotypes.

So it's a very deeply ingrained and it's deeply ingrained in those of us who are aging.

- I have found that older women's faces can be really interesting and beautiful.

And so I've created a Pinterest page of faces of older women, but they're not young beauty, you know, they're an older beauty.

The industry itself targets women at all ages.

And I think youth is the norm that everyone strives for.

So I won't say I won't try to do something to make my skin a little better, but all of the products that are gonna make you forever young, that's a sham and it's really, really hard.

But men too, you know, you're gonna get your hair replaced if you get bald.

- The thing that I talk about, and this is my favorite one 'cause I did a talk on this a little bit ago, is andropause and menopause.

So the men don't talk about andropause, right?

They used to call it a midlife crisis at 50, but it's actually called andropause.

So it starts at about age 30 for them when their testosterone's dropping about 10%.

And so they start to see some hairline recession and they start to see some hair loss.

So, you know, it's not just women who have to contend with aging, men have to contend with aging as well.

And our society is more forgiving for men with gray hair than it is for women with gray hair.

- [Host] But whether it's manmade impacts like beauty standards or just the effect of aging itself, both sides of the coin can play a role in overall wellbeing.

- So you have all these kind of age stages.

We don't really have a definition for the old one.

And what do we expect of people at a certain age?

Some people wanna go back and rock and do their rocking chair thing and some wanna go do golfing and some wanna do passionate activities and they wanna contribute to society, you know, so we don't really have a common belief.

- [Host] And the uncertainty some may have about where they fit in their own communities can lead to feelings of loneliness and isolation.

- The pandemic was very blatant.

It was like the social isolation, but if people were already isolated and didn't have family or others nearby, we haven't really recovered from all of that in many instances for older people, particularly if they're in, you know, if they have any limitations, like on mobility, a lot of people learn their lose their driver's ability, you know, driving so they no longer feel comfortable driving and therefore they don't get out and socialize.

- So when my mother was aging, even though she became legally blind and we got a driver for her, she still had her driver's license.

She didn't use it, but just having that driver's license for her was a symbol of independence because for her, in her generation, as a woman, women didn't have driver's license.

So she didn't get her driver's license until she was like 40.

So then when she couldn't pass, so she would always renew online, so she didn't have to take the vision test.

And one time we missed the deadline so she couldn't get it 'cause she couldn't pass it.

And she cried.

She cried all day that day because it wasn't she, that she was gonna use it, it was just the fact that she had it.

And so it's those little teeny things that make you have a moment of awareness when you don't have independence.

- [Host] The topic of aging, ageism, and generational gaps is complex, but these women say in order for things to change for the better, it's important for everyone, especially those in this community to keep pushing forward.

- I would say work at not being alone.

It's so easy to sit back, we've got to step out, we've got to do.

I feel so positive and refreshed after being with a group of people.

There are many of us who, if we let it be known, others will help us, others will assist us.

I've had so many people call me up and say, "Do you need a ride?"

Not because I can't drive, but because I'm not as secure driving and I don't wanna drive at night.

But almost always someone will call me and say, "I'll pick you up."

- If all you do is watch TV and you know, if all you do is, you know, kind of stay in your little box and you think I'm too old to learn anything new, then you probably will be too old to learn anything new.

You know, it's kind of like feeding into the stereotypes and living that way.

- Older adults have so much to offer the community.

And so being part of a community or a family or a church, a local agency where you feel like you're part of something and that what you are doing and what you say still matters is so incredibly important, so connecting.

And it's very hard to say, "You know, it seems like "you're a little lonely or isolated, "let's just go make some new friends."

You know, that's hard for any age, five year olds or 75 year olds.

But it is important to the quality of someone's life.

- It's not real until it's personal.

But I don't know how we're gonna have that awareness.

I don't know how to do that.

- Well, one of the things I love is the intergenerational because we, you know, young people and old people together.

Ooh, you know, it's very rare in our society to have context for people come together across age group.

And you know, from that the younger people get a more realistic understanding that some older people are really quite knowledgeable and helpful and, you know, sharp.

Having the belief that aging is a negative thing and that it's gonna be bad.

Imagine if you live to be a hundred and you went over the hill at 40.

What are you gonna do for 60 years?

We have to start thinking differently about what it means to get older.

You know, it isn't bad.

It's actually a joy, you know, to have the opportunity to be at a certain age and still be able to function and contribute.

I mean, that's really a beautiful thing.

- [Announcer] Thanks for watching.

You can find this episode and others online at wgvu.org/mutuallyinclusive or by visiting our YouTube page.

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Thank you for helping us be mutually inclusive.

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