(uplifting music) - [Announcer] This is a KSPS PBS Election Special.

A debate featuring candidates for Spokane County Commissioner.

- Hello and thank you for joining us.

I'm Kristi Gorenson.

KSPS is pleased to bring you this debate featuring the candidates running for Spokane County Commissioner in District Two.

This is not the same District Two from past elections.

Citing a need for more accurate representation in growing and diversifying counties, the 2018 State Legislature changed the way the largest counties in the state elect their commissioners.

Spokane County was required to change from three districts to five.

The two new districts essentially split the city core into east and west.

And you'll notice another change.

You only get to vote for the candidates in the district where you reside.

So let me introduce the candidates for this new District Two.

Michael Cathcart, currently represents Northeast Spokane on the Spokane City Council.

He is the past Executive Director of the pro-business group, Better Spokane, and former government affairs director of the Spokane Home Builders Association.

Amber Waldref served on the Spokane City Council from 2010 to 2017.

She is Director of The Zone, a northeast Spokane initiative focused on improving educational opportunities and reducing poverty.

She has also worked for the Lands Council and Priority Spokane.

Welcome to you, both.

Thank you for being here.

For this debate, the candidates will answer questions from two Spokane journalists.

Rebecca White is a reporter for Spokane Public Radio.

And Colin Tiernan covers county government for The Spokesman-Review.

Thank you for being here.

Before we begin, I wanna go over a few of the debate rules for our viewers.

These rules were agreed to by the candidates.

Take a look.

The panel will ask the same question to all the candidates or they can direct the question to just one candidate.

The panelist may request a follow-up to an answer.

Candidates will have one minute for answers.

Candidates will be allowed two rebuttals for the entire debate.

Rebuttal length will be limited to 30 seconds So let's begin.

A coin flip determined that Mr. Cathcart, you will take the first question, and that will come from Colin.

- Thank you.

First question is, we're in a period of high inflation and many economists say a recession may be looming.

If an economic downturn occurs during your time in office, how would you make tough budget decisions?

What county operations would you prioritize?

- Yeah, thank you.

So as a member of the Spokane City Council, right now, we are facing a pretty dire budget shortfall.

It's somewhere between 20 million and 40 million that we have unfunded liabilities that we're trying to figure out how to fund.

And so really what it takes is taking a scalpel and looking through the various departments, finding those areas of the budget that can be cut, where you're not gonna harm critical needs, critical services.

Obviously, the first priority is always public safety, police, fire.

Those are the things that we need to stand up and support, invest in.

But we have to make sure that county government, just like city government can function.

And so we have to go through that budget, find every opportunity we can for savings, make cost cuts where we can and try and make sure that our reserves are filled up so that moving forward through a recession, we can stand up the most important services that we have in the county.

- Ms. Waldref?

- Well, I actually, when I was on City Council, had to manage this type of situation.

I certainly hope we don't go into a recession, but if we do, when I was elected in 2009, we were in the middle of a terrible recession, and we did have to make tough decisions.

We did have to make budget cuts and be very creative about how we financed new investments or new police cars or different capital needs of the city.

But I'm really proud of the smart budgeting that I did at the city during that time.

And when we came out of that recession, we actually had a rainy day fund that was quite robust.

And so when I left City Council in 2017, that rainy day fund was there for when the pandemic hit two years ago.

And I'm really thankful for that.

That's the type of smart budgeting that I would like to bring as county commissioner.

- All right, Ms. Waldref, you'll take this next question from Rebecca.

- Over the last several years, the Spokane Regional Health District has cut programs due to budgetary concerns and despite has faced rising costs due to the pandemic.

So the most important funding source for the health district is the county and the county commissioners make a lot of budget decisions at the health district.

Do you think the health district is fully funded right now?

And how would you as a county commissioner financially prepare for future public health situations?

- Well, that's an excellent question.

When I served on the Board of Health as a city council member, I served for seven years.

And again, it was during the recession when I first got onto the Board of Health, and we had to set priorities and then work to try and meet those priorities.

And it was tough.

And there were a couple programs that we did have to make choices about, but I'm very concerned about some of the programs that are being cut at the County Health Department.

I've heard that the Maternal Child Health Program is in danger.

I've heard that the Cervical Cancer Screening Program has been cut, and I'm very concerned about this.

I wanna know more about what's going on with the budget at the Public Health District because when I was there, we were able to fund fully those programs that are really important, especially for women in our community.

So I'm excited to be on the Board of Health again, and to be able to really make better budget decisions.

I know we can do that.

And if we have to go to the state and look for more funding, we need to do that.

- Right, thank you.

Mr. Cathcart.

- Yeah, thank you.

So for me, I would look forward to working with the new administrator that's hired.

I think through that hiring process, we can find somebody who's really budget conscious, understands the, the budgeting situation at the public health department.

And I think what we can do then is when we have a full compliment of the board, all five commissioners are seated, they've appointed the complementary members of that board, we can sit down and take a holistic view and see what is that funding situation looking like?

What do we need to fund, what are those priorities?

And then work regionally with all the different jurisdictions to make sure that they all have skin in that game.

This is a regional health district, and the regional health district serves all the jurisdictions, and therefore all the jurisdictions need to play a role, I believe, in funding and helping to fund that health district.

And so that's the conversation that we need to have at the board level.

- All right, thank you.

Mr. Cathcart, you'll take this next question from Colin.

- Spokane County's Jail is overcrowded and the county has a severe shortage of corrections officers.

Do you think the county should build a new jail?

Or do you believe the county's dollars would be better spent on programs that seek to reduce dependence on incarceration?

- Yes, we need to have a new jail built.

Identifying how to pay for that the most responsible way is the debate, but there is no doubt that we need a jail for two reasons.

First, we have a revolving door.

The people who need to be in jail and off our streets to keep the community safe, they're not there.

They're let out the door, and that's just not right.

But secondly, and really goes to the cost efficiency of the jail.

With a new design that is more efficient, we can better staff the jail with fewer staff members and make it less expensive to operate.

And so I think that that's something we have to think about.

There are so many safety aspects to the current jail that just makes it tight, narrow corridors.

It is not a safe situation for the people who are staff there.

It's not a safe situation for the inmates.

It really is just a bad facility as it stands today.

And so there's no doubt that we have to invest in a new jail to keep our community safe.

- All right, thank you.

Ms. Waldref.

- Well, I do not support, like my opponent, going to the taxpayers asking for 300, 350 million is the latest numbers I've heard to fund a new jail.

There may be safety improvements that need to be made to the jail, but going out and building a whole new facility when folks are facing rising costs of inflation right now, it just doesn't seem to make budget sense or even public safety sense.

I think we still need to, we haven't even touched the tip of the iceberg when it comes to investing in ways to decrease our jail population.

I know the county's just starting to invest in a supervised release program.

The county is just starting to divert folks to a new mental health and substance use treatment center that was just recently built.

So these are ways that we can reduce the jail population in a safe way for our community and really get to greater community safety.

If we're gonna go out to voters asking for public safety improvements, I think we need to look at funding root causes and best proven criminal justice practices.

- All right, thank you.

Ms. Waldref, you'll take this next question from Rebecca.

- 2% Of Spokane County's population is Black, yet Black inmates make up around 14% of the county's jail population.

Do you think the county should work to reduce racial disparities within the jail population?

And if so, how?

- Yes, the latest data that I saw shows that Black residents as well as Native American residents are over jailed and overcharged in our system compared to the population.

And I think we've gotta work with our County Prosecutor's Office, our Sheriff's Department, our Police Departments throughout the county.

We need to figure out why this is and how we can reduce those disparities.

We have many community members that for many years, have faced unjust systems and they deserve to be listened to and to be part of the solution.

- Mr. Cathcart.

- Yeah, we absolutely need to look in and see what are those underlying issues that might be leading to the disparities.

Ultimately the goal is putting people in jail who need to be off the streets to keep the community safe and to provide justice for the victims of crime.

That needs to be the priority.

A safe community is the priority.

And so if there are discrepancies, yeah, let's look, are there laws that are unequally applied?

They're not equitable in how they're enforced.

We should look at all of that, look at all the data and make some good sound decisions.

But ultimately, you can't throw the baby out with the bath water.

You have to think about how do we keep the entire community safe regardless of who you are or where you live or what neighborhood you're in, you deserve safety.

You have a right to live in a safe community, and that needs to be the emphasis.

- Right, thank you.

Colin, you'll have this next question, and Mr. Cathcart, you'll answer this one first.

- The City of Spokane and state agencies are currently working to address Washington's largest homeless camp known as Camp Hope.

Homelessness throughout the county has risen 13% in the last two years.

What role do you think the county should play in tackling the growing issue of homelessness in our region?

- Yeah, so specifically with regards to the illegal camp in Central, obviously that started as a protest last December.

And I, amongst a few others have called for it to be cleared since it began.

It's a very dangerous situation for both the folks who are in that camp, especially for the folks in that camp.

Rapes, assaults, violence, brandings, all kinds of things are taking place.

And now there's a fence that I fear is keeping some people in, and that's very worrisome for me.

And so we absolutely need to rely on law enforcement as well as the resources in our community to try and clear that camp as soon as possible, preferably before winter.

Because if we allow that to go on, that is just a not a fair outcome for those who are camping there, especially those who have been victimized, but especially for the folks around that camp who have dealt with 76% increase in crime.

And that is just not right.

Not right for that neighborhood, which has endured so much over so long a period of time.

And to have the state just sort of stand by and allow that to happen is not right.

So we need to go in, we need to clear that camp as soon as possible and provide some safety to those folks.

- All right, thank you.

- Follow up real quick.

- Sure.

- As far as the county's role and addressing homelessness, do you think they need to take a bigger role or, just to answer that question.

- Yeah, thank you for the follow up.

Yes, 100%.

The county needs to be that arbiter of collaboration and cooperation across the region.

Homelessness is not a City of Spokane issue, despite what some people think.

It is a regional issue.

It requires regional solutions and collaboration.

And if we are not bringing the Valley and Mead and Airway Heights and everybody in between to the table to have a public conversation about how we're gonna deal with this, we're just not doing the right thing.

- Ms. Waldref.

- Well, the housing crisis across our country is really making an impact.

And here in Spokane, we have a housing shortage.

And Camp Hope is really a symptom of that housing problem that we're experiencing.

So we really need to build more housing in Spokane County, and that needs to be the focus, but in terms of Camp Hope, it's not an unsafe situation.

I agree with Mr. Cathcart.

I don't know why city and county leaders allow that to occur over the last year.

It's not a safe way to shelter people.

We need people in some sort of shelter or in some affordable housing situations.

The more we can get folks off the streets into housing, the safer our community will be.

So I'm very focused on a regional plan.

We haven't seemed to be able to get everyone to agree on a regional plan.

So that's what my number one focus is, is a regional plan that we can start implementing with our nonprofit and our business partners as soon as possible to get people sheltered and keep our community safe.

- Yes, you have 30 seconds.

- Yeah, so two points I really wanna make.

One is it's not a city county camp, it is a state-run, state-sanction camp.

They have prohibited the city at every step from clearing that camp, unfortunately.

And the money that's come in from the Department of Commerce is a very small amount relative to the problem that has been created because of the camp.

Second, housing, Absolutely a huge issue and is somebody who has championed probably one of the boldest housing changes in the country right here in the city of Spokane.

It's true, we absolutely need more housing stock.

And I believe that through a collaborative approach, we can bring more jurisdictions into that conversation of, how do we do more infill within our community.

- All right, thank you.

Let's move on.

Ms. Waldref, you'll take this next question first from Rebecca.

- Since 2020, county election offices have had to contend with false claims of election fraud, rampant misinformation and harassment.

If you're elected as a county commissioner, how would you support the county's election department and uphold and protect elections in our county?

- I think it's terrible the kind of misinformation that's been going around about our election system.

We have one of the best election systems here in Washington State, all vote by mail.

There's not any evidence of any fraud.

And I, as a county commissioner, will work really hard to make sure that our county auditor and the elections office is supported and funded and that we have good information going out to the community.

If folks come before us with false claims in front of me as a county commissioner, I will not stand for that.

If there's real evidence, show the evidence.

If there's not, we need to move forward and make sure we have a safe and supported election system, which we do currently, and we need to continue to keep the integrity of that moving forward.

- Right, Thank you.

Mr. Cathcart.

- Yeah, to be clear, the county commissioner specifically do not play a role in elections except that they do fund the elections office.

And so making sure that they have the funding to do things the proper way is really what we're limited to being able to do in that role.

But I will tell you, as I have doorbelled.

thousands of homes over the last few months and talk to a lot of people, I hear on a routine basis, and this is not from one party or the other, it's from both.

People who are convinced that either the 2016 election was stolen or the 2020 election was stolen.

So there is clearly a subset of folks who have a lack of confidence in our election system.

Rightly or wrongly.

And I believe Spokane County's elections are incredibly secure, just to be clear on that point.

But people feel like their vote is at risk.

And so I believe in a bipartisan way, we should come together and talk about what are some things we can do to prove that the elections are secure, to prove that all the votes are counted.

Let's just have a conversation.

Let's have a plan in a bipartisan way that should not be run by one party or the other.

The only way you're gonna provide confidence in the election system is by having everybody at the table.

And so I believe that's the best way that we can address this.

- All right, thank you.

Mr. Cathcart, you'll take this next question from Colin.

- As you've both mentioned already, Spokane County is in the midst of a housing shortage.

Rising rents and home values have left many struggling to find a place to live.

If you're elected as a county commissioner, What policies would you put forward to address the region's housing crisis?

- My first?

- Yes.

- Thank you for the question.

Yeah, housing is one of the biggest issues we face across the region.

Estimates are that we are under stocked by 25,000 housing units.

Which is gonna require an all hands on deck approach to figuring out how we can get those units built.

And this is having a big effect on our community.

We're pushing growth into Idaho, which is creating more congestion and a loss of tax revenue that we depend upon.

And we need to make sure that we have housing being built so that we can reduce the prices and get more supply to meet the demand that we have in our community.

So as I mentioned earlier, I proposed I believe one of the boldest housing changes across the country, which enhances our zoning to allow for home ownership opportunities across the City of Spokane.

Something that gets us around some of the condo laws at the state, which has made it impossible to create more home ownership opportunities for people who maybe don't have as high of an income.

And so I think that we are gonna see through the Building Opportunities and Choices Act at the city a lot of positive come from that.

And now we need to bring all the jurisdictions to the table and talk about what is the plan going forward?

How do we and where do we appropriately expand the urban growth boundary and where do we do more in-field development to accommodate the housing that we need?

- All right, thank you, Ms. Waldref.

- Thank you.

We need more housing in every part of our county and we need to place it where we can support the housing.

And that means we need our different cities and our county to actually work collaboratively together to jointly plan for growth in the targeted areas where we wanna see it.

That's not what's occurred over the last 20 years in Spokane County.

We've had different development happen in the county that's not consistent with development in the city.

So we need to get everyone together around the same page about where this housing is gonna go that we need on the different types of housing.

Town homes, more dense housing and less dance housing.

So my focus will be on joint planning with the cities, which the county has not, and to my knowledge ever done.

We need to stop a stop the poor growth decisions that the county's made that's actually costing taxpayers money.

The county's been sued many times for not having a plan to actually support growth.

Schools, roads, sewer.

That's a responsibility of the county.

So as we move forward, we need to be doing it right.

Smart growth for more housing in Spokane County.

- Right, thank you.

Ms. Waldref, you'll take this next question from Rebecca.

- This summer, the City of Spokane passed a resolution barring law enforcement from participating in out-of-state abortion investigations.

If you are a county commissioner, would you support or propose a similar policy for the County Sheriff's Office?

- Yes, I would support a similar policy.

I think it's terrible that women might be criminalized for making their own reproductive health decisions.

And so we can't participate in that here in Spokane County.

We need to make sure people are safe and they can access healthcare.

So I would support a similar policy at the county.

- Right, thank you.

Mr. Cathcart.

- Yeah, thank you.

So the county really plays no role in abortion services.

But what I would say is the State of Washington where the Supreme Court has designated this law to be determined, has said over and over and over again through two votes of the citizens as well as multiple votes of the legislature, that abortion is gonna be safe, legal, and accessible in the State of Washington.

That's not gonna change anytime soon.

And anybody who suggests otherwise is either lying or is being misled because the State of Washington is just never gonna change those abortion laws.

So really this is a red herring that has no effect on Spokane County or the City of Spokane.

And in talking with candidates for sheriff, they've said that we don't have the resources to do these sorts of things.

So it really is a non-issue and not something that anybody has any mind to it for.

- Right, thank you.

Yes, 30 seconds.

- So I disagree.

I am very concerned.

We do not know if access to reproductive health will be in the future, protected.

We can't say that.

We need to do everything we can here in Washington State to protect people's access to healthcare.

And I do not know what the laws, for instance in Idaho, they're still being played out.

Exactly what that means and how accessing reproductive health will be potentially criminalized and what that impact might be in Washington State.

So I just think we have to be very careful and not just assume that that is a right that will be protected forever.

We need to make sure we in Washington State make good decisions.

- Right, thank you.

Mr. Cathcart, you'll take this next question from Colin.

- Last year, the Spokane County Commissioners made a couple of major changes to the structure of the Spokane Regional Health District's Board of Health, including removing Spokane and Spokane Valley's dedicated seats.

Would you give smaller cities, a seat at the table, and how would you ensure community input in public health decisions?

- Yeah, well, I think they were following the letter of the law as approved by the Washington State Legislature in doing that.

And I think it makes a lot of sense that you would take out political voices and replace them with experts.

And I think that that's what they were trying to do is to create a board that has fewer elected officials and more experts in the field.

And I've committed many times to bringing on an MD if I'm elected to this position and making sure that we have somebody with some different talents and and background to meet the different needs of that board.

And so, no, I don't really have any strong concerns.

I mean, I think it's something we can talk about, especially if other jurisdictions are gonna come to the table with financing for the health district.

I think that's something we can talk about our board positions, but I think we should try to keep the politics out of the health district.

- Right, thank you.

Ms. Waldref.

- Well, unfortunately though, politics were part of all of these decisions.

The first decision being to fire the health officer during the middle of a pandemic, then the board getting changed, then not placing actual health experts on the board.

So this has been really disturbing to me after serving on the Board of Health for seven years and having a mix of both elected leaders and health experts.

I sat next to a nurse and a doctor and we made some tough decisions, as I said earlier to keep that budget strong for our community, for the health of our community.

I know a lot of people who have left the health district.

There was a lot of ill will after all of these decisions were made and the board was politicized in one way or the other.

And we've lost a lot of the talent of wonderful people who are doing amazing work to keep our community safe.

So there's a lot of rebuilding to do.

And we definitely need medical decision-makers and experts on the board.

We need also impacted community members who are facing the largest impacts of the pandemic and other health issues.

- All right, thank you.

This next question will be a 30-second answer for you both and Ms. Waldref, you'll take this one from Rebecca.

- If you are elected as a county commissioner, how will you work to increase transparency on the Board of County Commissioners and make County government more accessible?

- Well, I have, I guess two perspectives on that.

One, we need to make sure all of the decisions are made at open meetings in good times of the day when people can watch it on TV or in person.

So there's a lot that we can do to make sure important meetings like the plan commission are livestreamed or accessible in the evenings.

And also, I just think you need to be someone who's coming in with a perspective of wanting to engage with the public.

I used to have coffee conversations when I was on City Council out in the community.

And I let people know what was going on on the agenda.

So you need responsive county commissioners and you need a system that people can access well.

- Thank you.

Mr. Cathcart.

- Yeah, the county commissioners work for the public and we need to make sure that the county government is accessible to the public as it can be.

And that means livestreaming all meetings, all subcommittees, all committees, everything that the county does.

It means making sure that budgets and agendas and work product are really easy to find on the county website.

It means making sure that county government is accessible regardless of your situation or any language barriers, Making sure that anybody can access their county officials, various departments, get permits, all that sort of thing, access resources they need.

I recall, I tried to testify on an ARPA request at the county to help fund a Northeast behavioral health project.

And was told that the county was not taking public testimony on ARPA.

That's the kind of thing I think that we can make a simple change to to make sure that the county public understands what's being decided at county level.

- You're time this up, I'm sorry.

Thank you to you both.

That will be the last question.

And it is time now for closing statements.

And Mr. Cathcart, you'll go first.

You have one minute.

- Thank you so much.

And thank you to KSPS for putting this on and thank you to the public for watching.

Obviously, it's really important to have this sort of discourse.

It's an absolute priv privilege and honor serving many of you watching today on the Spokane City Council.

And it will be an honor to earn your vote to serve you on the Spokane County Commission.

I've heard your calls for a safer community and end of the drive by shootings, the property crime, the out-of-control drug distribution, the illegal end dangerous encampments in our neighborhoods.

As a parent and as a proven leader, I want to be your advocate.

Help me to fight for our right to live in a safe community.

For working families deserving a shot at the Spokane dream of living in a safe and affordable neighborhood.

And to ensure that county government is transparent in all of its business.

And access is provided for all, regardless of circumstance or language barrier.

My name is Michael Cathcart, and together, with your vote, we can forge a better path ahead.

Thank you.

- Right, thank you, Mr. Cathcart.

And Ms. Waldref.

- Thank you so much for hosting this forum, it's really important.

For too long, our county leaders have not worked well with others to resolve our local challenges.

So as you're commissioner, I will build on my record of increasing community safety, making good budget decisions, protecting our environment through regional partnerships and targeted investments.

And my priorities will be one, collaborating on smart growth countywide so that we can have supportive housing options for all of our residents.

Number two, supporting a strong criminal justice system, but being smart about it.

Investing in proven programs to keep our community safe, such as mental health and drug courts, youth programs, community policing.

And number three, we need to open up economic opportunities for all residents by investing in targeted worker training and making sure childcare is accessible and affordable.

Together we can create a safer and more prosperous county for all of us.

I would appreciate your vote.

- All right.

That will have to do it for this debate.

Our thanks to each of the candidates as well as to journalists, Rebecca White and Colin Tiernan.

A quick reminder, if you aren't registered to vote, it's not too late.

You have until October 31st to register online or by mail and you can even register to vote in person until 8 PM on election day.

For all of us here at KSPS, thank you for watching.