>> GOOD EVENING.

I'M TODD STACY AND WELCOME TO "SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION," ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION'S QUARTERLY PROGRAM EXAMINING THE LATEST WITH EDUCATION POLICY, PROGRAMS AND PROGRESS.

THIS EPISODE COMES AT A FORTUITOUS TIME - JUST THIS WEEK THE NATIONAL ASSESSMENT OF EDUCATION PROGRESS, OR NAEP, RELEASED ITS TEST SCORES KNOWN AS THE NATION'S REPORT CARD.

IT WASN'T A PRETTY PICTURE FOR MOST OF THE COUNTRY, AS STUDENTS SHOWED SIGNIFICANT SLIDES IN PROFICIENCY IN MATH AND READING.

MOST ARE ATTRIBUTING THE SLIDE TO THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC THAT KEPT CHILDREN OUT OF SCHOOL FOR MONTHS AND IN SOME CASES MORE THAN YEAR.

HOWEVER, THERE WAS GOOD NEWS FOR ALABAMA, ESPECIALLY AT THE ELEMENTARY LEVEL.

THE STATE'S AVERAGE SCORES FOR FOURTH GRADE READING ROSE BY TWO POINTS, GOOD ENOUGH FOR ALABAMA'S RANKING IN THAT CATEGORY TO RISE FROM 49TH TO 39TH COMPARED TO OTHER STATES.

ONLY ALABAMA AND LOUISIANA SAW GAINS IN FOURTH GRADE READING, WHILE EVERY OTHER STATE SAW DECLINING SCORES.

IN FOURTH GRADE MATH, ALABAMA'S STUDENTS GAIN JUST LESS THAN A POINT WHILE EVERY OTHER STATE SAW DECLINES.

THAT MOVED ALABAMA'S RANKING FROM 52ND TO 40TH.

THE STATE'S EIGHTH GRADERS SAW PROFICIENCY DECLINES.

IN READING, ALABAMA EIGHTH GRADERS DROPPED 2.5 POINTS, KEEPING THE STATE IN 49TH PLACE.

IN MATH, THEY DROPPED 4.3 POINTS, BUT PICKED UP FIVE SPOTS IN THE RANKINGS FROM 52ND TO 47TH.

I'LL SPEAK WITH STATE SUPERINTENDENT ERIC MACKEY IN MORE DETAIL ABOUT THESE NAEP SCORES LATER IN THE PROGRAM.

WHEN SCHOOLS CHRONICALLY UNDERPERFORM, WE OFTEN HEAR PARENTS AND COMMUNITY LEADERS ASK, WHY CAN'T WE TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE IN THE CAPITAL CITY, AS A FEEDER NETWORK OF MONTGOMERY PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE BECOMING CONVERSION CHARTER SCHOOLS.

THE IDEA IS TO USE THE SAME BUILDING, SERVE THE SAME STUDENT POPULATION, BUT WITH A DIFFERENT SET OF RULES AND STANDARDS THAT ARE MEANT TO PROVIDE FLEXIBILITY AND ENCOURAGE ACHIEVEMENT.

APT'S KAREN GOLDSMITH HAS THE IN-DEPTH STORY.

>> THIS PRINCIPAL AT EDGAR NIXON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND WHEN SHE SPEAKS OF THE K-5 GRADERS ENROLLED THERE, SHE DOES NOT CALL THEM STUDENTS.

>> WE HAVE 440 SCHOLARS IN THE BUILDING.

>> SHE IS COMPASSIONATE ABOUT THE KIDS KNOWING THEY ARE SCHOLARS.

>> WE WANT THEM TO THINK HIGHLY OF THEMSELVES.

WE WANT THEM TO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WORK HARD AND ARE ABLE TO SUCCEED.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS IS.

OUR SCHOLARS DO HAVE THE ABILITY TO EXCEL AND SUCCEED.

>> BECAUSE OF THIS IN THE ONLY TWO MONTHS NIXON HAS BEEN A CONVERSION CHARTER SCHOOL THE ACADEMIC CLIMATE SIMILAR PROVING.

>> WHEN WE FIRST GOT HERE WE HAD SEVERAL REDS AS FAR AS ACADEMICS IS CONCERNED.

ONCE WE LOOKED AT OUR NWEA AND STAR DATA.

THAT'S ONE OF THE SCREENERS WE USE WITHIN MPS.

>> MPS STANDS FOR AMONG PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

THEY USE THE CURRICULUM IN WHICH THEY ARE LOCATED.

>> WE LOOK AT MATH AND READING SCORES AND SEE WHERE OUR SCHOLARS ARE.

SEVERAL WERE LOW, ABOUT ZERO PERCENT IN ONE CLASSROOM AND NOW INTO THE YELLOW.

>> FRAISER SAID A WORD CHANGE AND SHIFT ON WHO TO HOLD RESPONSIBLE FOR SCHOLAR SUCCESS IS KEY.

>> WE DON'T LIKE TO SAY FAILING IN SCHOOL.

IF WE SAY FAILING THAT MEANS WE ARE PLACING THE BLAME ON SCHOLARS.

WITH OUR MODEL, WE LIKE TO KEEP THE FOCUS ON ADULTS.

ARE WE FAILING OUR SCHOLARS?

WHAT ARE WE NEEDING TO DO TO CLOSE THE GAP BETWEEN LOW PERFORMING AND BECOMING A HIGH-PERFORMING SCHOOL.

>> NIXON ELEMENTARY IS A FEATURE SCHOOL TO BELLINGRATH MIDDLE.

THERE IS CONTINUITY IN THE TEACHING METHOD AND DIRECT COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE TWO PRINCIPALS.

FRAISER SAID IT IS TO ENSURE ONGOING SCHOLAR SUCCESS.

FOR "SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION," I'M KAREN GOLDSMITH.

>> WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT OFFICIALS FROM THREE STATES RECENTLY GATHERED IN MOBILE TO SHARE IDEAS AND LEARN ABOUT THE BEST WAYS TO HELP CONNECT AVAILABLE WORKERS WITH AVAILABLE JOBS.

LEADING THE EFFORT WERE THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE OF EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE TRAINING AND AIDT'S OFFICE OF APPRENTICESHIP.

I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO ATTEND THE CONFERENCE AND SHARE SOME TAKEAWAYS.

>> THEY ARE THINKING ABOUT THIS IN A SYSTEMS LEVEL WELL.

>> IT IS A GEOGRAPHY WITH THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION AND IS BRINGING TOGETHER OFFICIALS TO SHARE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT IMPROVING CAREER TRAINING AND PLACEMENT PLATFORMS.

ALABAMA HOSTED THE CONVENING TITLED LEARN AND EARN AND WELCOMED OFFICIALS FROM INDIANA AND COLORADO.

>> I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE BEST, MOST SOPHISTICATED SYSTEMS I HAVE SEEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

I'M INTERESTED IN HAVING OTHER STATES COME TO LEARN FROM THAT AND ALSO MAYBE ENGAGE WITH THEM ON WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO HELP TO PUSH IT FURTHER.

>> ALABAMA HAS QUIETLY BECOME A NATIONAL NEARED THE SCIENCE OF WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT.

AIDT, THE OFFICE OF APPRENTICESHIP H COMMUNITY COLLEGE SYSTEM, THE ALABAMA WORKFORCE COUNCIL AND THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION ALL COLLABORATE ON CAREER DEVELOPMENT PATHWAYS.

NICK MOORE HELPS TO LEAD THE EFFORTS AS GOVERNOR IVEY'S EDUCATION POLICY ADVISOR.

>> THERE'S NO PRIDE IN AUTHORSHIP EDUCATION TRAINING.

I STARTED AS A K-12 TEACHER AND FIRST THING YOU LEARN IS YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO BORROW AND SHARE IDEAS.

WHAT THIS OPPORTUNITY IS ABOUT IS A COLLABORATIVE LEARNING EXCHANGE.

IN THE SYSTEM OF COMPETENCIES WE ARE DEVELOPING THESE ARE THREE STATES OUT FRONT.

AS WE LEAD THIS VANGUARD OF STATES LEANING IN TO COMPETENCY BASED EDUCATION.

>> BIRMINGHAM PROMISE WORKS TO CONNECT STUDENTS WITH SCHOLARSHIPS AND APPRENTICESHIPS.

>> IT'S BEEN GREAT TO BE AT THE CONFERENCE.

THEY ARE TALKING WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO GET MORE EMPLOYERS TO BUY INTO THE IDEA OF TRAINING YOUNG PEOPLE FROM AN EARLY AGE AND BRINGING THEM INTO THEIR COMPANIES WITH THE SKILLS THEY NEED.

FOR US, WE ARE TRYING TO GET THE CITY OF BIRMINGHAM, THE ENTIRE CITY TO RALLY BEHIND THIS IDEA OF WE ARE GOING TO KEEP GROWING.

WE CAN'T GET ALL OF OUR TALENT OUTSIDE OF THE STATE OR THE CITY.

BIRMINGHAM CITY SCHOOLS ARE PRODUCING 1200 GRADUATES A YEAR.

THAT'S THE FUTURE.

>> AT THE END OF THE DAY IT IS ABOUT PEOPLE GAINING EMPLOYMENT AND THE STATE IS READY TO HELP.

>> PLEASE VISIT YOUR LOCAL CAREER CENTER.

ASK ABOUT THE ALABAMA WORKFORCE STABILIZATION PROGRAM.

WE HAVE A JOB FOR YOU AND TRAINING AVAILABLE NO MATTER WHAT YOUR SKILL LEVEL IS.

>> NEXT, I'M JOINED BY DR. ERIC MACKEY, ALABAMA STATE SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS.

DR. MACKEY, THANK YOU FOR COMING ON "SPOTLIGHT."

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME TONIGHT.

>> BIG NEWS ON NAEP SCORES, THE NATIONAL ASSESSMENT OF EDUCATION PROGRESS, THE NATION'S EDUCATION REPORT CARD AS WE COVERED AT THE TOP OF THE SHOW.

I GUESS THE BEST NEWS IS IN STATE'S FOURTH GRADERS.

HELD THE LINE STEADY IN MATH WHERE MOST OF THE COUNTRY SAW BAD SLIDES IN THOSE GRADES.

WHAT WERE YOUR BIG TAKEAWAYS?

>> WE ARE EXCITED ABOUT WHAT WE SEE IN FOURTH GRADE.

IT SHOWS WHERE YOU SPEND YOUR TIME AND MONEY YOU SEE RESULTS.

WE FOCUSED EFFORTS IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WITH THE REBUILDING OF THE ALABAMA READING INITIATIVE, FUNDING COMING FROM THE LEGISLATURE THROUGH THE LITERACY ACT -- SO THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS WE HAVE PUT IN PLACE SINCE 2018, WE SEE THAT BORN OUT.

ONLY SEVEN STATES SHOWED MY IMPROVEMENT IN READING.

ALABAMA IS ONE OF THEM, NUMBER TWO BEHIND LOUISIANA.

IN MATH WE HAD ONE POINT GAIN, NOT QUITE BUT WE WERE THE ONLY STATE THAT SHOWED ANY GAIN.

EVERY OTHER STATE AND TERRITORY, INCLUDING THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, WHICH IS ALWAYS THE OUTLIER THERE, BUT THEY ALL SHOWED REGRESSION.

ALABAMA IS THE ONLY STATE THAT DIDN'T SHOW REGRESSION BUT A STATISTICAL GAIN.

IT WAS NOT A LOT BUT ENOUGH THAT TOLD US WE ARE ON THE RIGHT PATH.

WE'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING.

WE REALLY FOCUSED -- SINCE I TOOK THIS JOB IN THE SPRING OF 2018, I SAID WE HAD TO GET THE RIGHT STANDARDS.

WE ADOPTED NEW COURSES OF STUDY IN ENGLISH, LANGUAGE ARTS AND MATHEMATICS SINCE THEN.

WE HAD TO GET THE RIGHT ASSESSMENT IN PLACE.

WE ADOPTED ACAP ASSESSMENT FOR 2-8 AND THAT IS FULLY ALIGNED TO THE NAEP FRAMEWORK.

FIRST TIME WE HAVE ALIGNED OUR STANDARDS AND THE NAEP FRAMEWORK AND WE PUT THOSE IN PLACE EVEN DURING THE PANDEMIC.

IT'S PAYING OFF.

THERE'S GOOD THINGS GOING ON.

I HAVE SAID TO SEVERAL PEOPLE I'M HAPPY ABOUT WHERE WE ARE.

WE HAVE REALLY DONE WELL, JUMPING FROM 52nd TO 40th IN MATH AND 49th TO 39th IN READING.

IF WE ARE IN THIS SAME PLACE FIVE YEARS FROM NOW WE WILL HAVE FAILED.

THIS IS THE PATH FORWARD.

WE'RE NOT TO THE FINISH LINE BUT ON THE RIGHT PATH.

>> I WAS GOING TO MENTION, WHEREAS THIS IS GENERALLY COVERED AS A CELEBRATION.

THIS IS -- ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING WHERE WE WERE THREE, FOUR YEARS AGO.

BUT YOU ARE RIGHT.

PROFICIENCY IS STILL VERY LOW.

ESPECIALLY LOOKING AT ACAP.

WE'RE NOT AT THE NATIONAL AVERAGE YET.

WHAT GOES INTO THE NEXT STEPS INTO MAKING SURE THOSE PRO EFFICIENCY NUMBERS RISE?

>> THEY HAVE TO KEEP GROWING.

ONE TIME, WE ALL REMEMBER CELEBRATING A LITTLE OVER TEN YEARS AGO, ONE TIME WE WERE ABLE TO MEET THE AVERAGE FOR FOURTH GRADE READING.

WE ARE THREE POINTS BELOW.

WE ARE FIVE BELOW IN FOURTH GRADE MATH.

WE ARE MOVING THIS THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

HERE'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DO -- ONE, REDOUBLE OUR EFFORTS, DOUBLE DOWN.

WE HAVE 12,000 TEACHERS TRAINED IN THE SCIENCE OF READING AND MANY OF THEM FOR THE FIRST TIME BECAUSE THEY MAY NOT HAVE HAD THAT SPECIFIC TRAINING WHEN THEY WERE IN COLLEGE, BUT MANY OF THEM ARE JUST RETRAINED AND THEY HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE TRAINING TEN OR 20 YEARS AGO WHEN WE WERE DOING IT THROUGH THE ALABAMA INITIATIVE.

THE STATE STEPPED AWAY FROM THAT BUT WE ARE BACK FULL SPEED AHEAD.

WE HAVE TO GET K-3 AND PRE-K TEACHERS TRAINED IN THE SCIENCE OF READING.

WE ARE USING A PROGRAM CALLED LETTERS TO DO THAT AND WE HAVE 12,000 TEACHERS GOING THROUGH THAT.

WE HAVE TO HAVE HIGH-QUALITY AFTER-SCHOOL INSTRUCTION.

THOSE ARE AFTER-SCHOOL PROGRAMS.

THIS IS THE MONTH WE CELEBRATE AFTER SCHOOL.

WE ARE EXCITED ABOUT THAT.

WE HAVE HIGH-QUALITY PROGRAMS ACROSS THE STATE.

THE PROGRAMS HAVE TO MEET STUDENTS' NEEDS.

THEY NEED TO GET IT IN AND AFTER SCHOOL AND IN SUMMER SCHOOL.

WE PUT A LOT OF STOCK IN OUR SUMMER SCHOOL.

THIS YEAR WE HAD 5,000 IN SUMMER SCHOOL.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CHILDREN IN GRADES 2-3 MOSTLY WHO ARE BEHIND IN READING OR NOT BEHIND BUT PARENTS WANT THEM FOR ENRICHMENT AND ARE GETTING EXTRA HELP DURING THE SUMMER.

WE IMPLEMENT OUR COACHING MODEL THROUGH THE ALABAMA READING INITIATIVE AND FUNDED THROUGH THE ALA AND THEN WE WILL BE ON THE RIGHT TRACK.

SAME WAY WITH MATH.

WE ADOPTED NEW STANDARDS AND PUT NEW MATH TESTS IN THE SAME WAY.

BUT THE LEGISLATURE, THIS PAST SPRING, GAVE US THE GO-AHEAD TO ROLL OUT A MATH COACHING PROGRAM THAT MODELS OUR READING COACH PROGRAM THROUGH THE READING INITIATIVE.

WE WERE ALREADY DOING A SMALL PILOT PROGRAM WITH FEDERAL FUNDS BUT WITH THE LEGISLATURE PUTTING THE MONEY BEHIND THAT WE WILL ROLL THOSE OUT IN THE FALL OF '23.

WE WILL TAKE THE NAEP AGAIN IN JANUARY 24.

PEOPLE HAVE TO REMEMBER, WE ONLY HAVE THE FIRST MATH COACHES DEPLOYED UNDER THE NUMERACY ACT FOUR MONTHS BEFORE THE NAEP IS GIVEN AGAIN.

WE SHOULD SEE IN '24 AND CERTAINLY IN '26 WE WILL SEE THE RESULTS OF THAT WORK.

IT TAKES TIME TO MAKE THESE CHANGES, BUT WE ARE TURNING A BIG SHIFT AND WE FEEL GOOD.

THIS IS A WEEK FOR ALL ALABAMIANS TO BE PROUD OF THE WORK WE HAVE DONE, THE INVESTMENT WE HAVE MADE.

EVERYBODY FROM OUR GOVERNOR WHO HAS LED THE WAY, HAS MULTIPLE TIMES SAID WE ARE GOING TO STICK WITH THIS AND ARE GOING TO GIVE OUR STUDENTS THE BEST OPPORTUNITIES, OUR SCHOOL BOARD AND LEGISLATURE.

ALL HAVE INVESTED AND THOSE FOLKS NEED TO SIT BACK TONIGHT AND TAKE A DEEP BREATH, ENJOY THE MOMENT BECAUSE IT'S WORKING.

THEY SHOULD CELEBRATE IN THEIR INVESTMENT BUT THEN NEXT WEEK WE NEED TO JUMP BACK IN THE COLD WATER AND GET SWIMMING BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE WORK TO BE DONE.

>> WHEN I SAW THE SCORES AND THE READING SCORE JUMPED UP, FOURTH GRADE READING GAINS THERE, THE FIRST THING THAT CAME TO MIND IS THE LITERACY ACT PASSED IN 2019.

YOU HAVE DONE ALL OF THIS WORK TO IMPLEMENT IT AND IT JUMPS OUT AT YOU.

THAT BEING THE CASE, AND NOW THAT YOU CAN SEE RESULTS, DO YOU THINK YOU CAN MAKE THE CASE TO THE LEGISLATURE -- MAYBE AN EASIER SELL TO DOUBLE DOWN ON THOSE THINGS AND MAYBE NOT JUST LITERACY BUT NUMERACY ACT, AS WELL BECAUSE THE SAME PRINCIPALS WENT INTO THAT.

>> EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE A MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACK BUT WE ALL KNOW WE MADE GREAT GAINS.

WE STARTED THE INITIAL WORK TO INCORPORATE THE SCIENCE OF READING IN 1999.

WE HAD THE SWEET 16 SCHOOLS AND THE READING INITIATIVE.

WE BEGAN TO GROW THAT.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT OUR NAEP SCORES WE WENT DOWN.

SO, WE WERE DOING THE WORK, LAYING THE FOUNDATION FOR WHAT HAD TO BE DONE, AND THEN, AFTER SIX YEARS, WE SAW THIS DRAMATIC UPTICK UNTIL WE DID EVENTUALLY REACH THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.

ABOUT THE TIME WE REACHED THE NATIONAL AVERAGE, THE LEGISLATURE THEN PULLED BACK AND SAID, WE ARE GOING TO MOVE ON TO OTHER PRIORITIES.

THEN WE SAW LIKE A CURVE, WENT UP AND THEN TOOK ANOTHER SHARP TURN DOWN AND NOW BACK UP AGAIN.

I THINK THE DIFFERENCE IS THIS TIME WE KNOW THERE'S NO BACKING OFF.

ONCE WE START BACK UP, WHICH WE HAVE, WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO INVEST AND INVEST AND INVEST SO THAT WE KEEP THE CURVE GOING UP.

NO MORE SIGN CURVES IN ALABAMA OR UP AND DOWN.

WE WANT TO BE ON THE UPWARD STRETCH.

>> THERE WAS ALSO A LOT OF TALK ABOUT ALABAMA'S SCORES AND THE POLICY OF SCHOOL CLOSURES.

SCHOOLS ACROSS THE COUNTRY CLOSED, BUT ALABAMA SCHOOLS OPENED A LOT SOONER THAN OTHER STATES.

IT WAS PRETTY CLEAR FROM THE NATIONWIDE SCORES THERE WAS A LOT OF LEARNING LOST IN OTHER STATES THAT WERE HELD CLOSED A LOT LONGER THAN ALABAMA.

WHAT CAN YOU SAY ABOUT THAT AND LESSONS LEARNED?

>> FORTUNATELY, IT HAS BEEN VERIFIED.

THE NAEP AND OUR NEW STATE TEST THE NEW ACAP ARE PRETTY CLOSE IN ALIGNMENT.

WHEN THE ACAP RESULTS CAME BACK WE SAW SOME PLACES TO CELEBRATE AND SOME WHERE WE ARE STRUGGLING.

THE NAEP MIRRORED THAT.

THE NAEP IS A SELECT NUMBER OF SCHOOLS AND SELECT NUMBER OF KIDS.

NOT EVERYBODY TAKES IT AND WE ONLY GET STATE RESULTS.

IT'S A SAMPLE.

WE LOOK AT, IN THE STATE WE LOOK AT OUR ACAP RESULTS, WELL ALIGNED TO THE NAEP.

IT IS VERY CLEAR THAT THE MORE TIME STUDENTS WERE IN SCHOOL, IN A CLASSROOM WITH A TEACHER, THE MORE LIKELY THEY WERE TO HAVE GAD TEST RESULTS.

NAEP SAW THAT COMPARING STATES, STATES LIKE ALABAMA THAT SAID WE WANT OUR KIDS IN CLASS WITH A HIGH-QUALITY TEACHER SCORED BETTER, LOST LESS GROUND OR IN OUR CASE MADE A LITTLE BIT OF GROUND VERSUS STATES WHO FOR A LONG TIME SAID WE WILL STAY REMOTE.

THE GOLD STANDARD IN EDUCATION IS A TEACHER, A HIGH-QUALITY TEACHER IN A CLASSROOM WITH CHILDREN WHERE HE OR SHE CAN BE LOOKING OVER THEIR SHOULDER.

THERE'S NOTHING LIKE BEING ABLE TO LOOK EYE TO EYE WITH A STUDENT.

BEING UP TO WALK UP AND PUT YOUR HAND ON THE SHOULDER AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE WORK THEY ARE DOING.

THAT'S WHAT TEACHERS DO.

IT'S AN ART.

SO, THE GOVERNOR WAS INSISTENT THAT AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN WE WANT TO REOPEN SCHOOLS AND WANT CHILDREN BACK IN DESKS WITH A TEACHER IN THE CLASSROOM AND I THINK THAT'S ONE REASON WE WERE ABLE TO MAKE A FEW GAINS AND NOT LOSE AS MUCH GROUND.

IT REALLY WAS THE PERFECT GOOD STORM FOR US.

WE HAD ALL OF THESE THINGS COMING TOGETHER AT THE SAME TIME.

AND THIS EXPECTATION THAT WE WANT OUR STUDENTS BACK IN SCHOOL MADE A DIFFERENCE.

>> SWITCHING GEARS REAL QUICK.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE SCHOOL TURN AROUND FUND, 15 MILLION, SOME FROM THE LEGISLATURE AND SOME FROM THE SCHOOL BOARD, GOING TO TURN AROUND SOME CHRONICALLY UNDER PERFORMING SCHOOLS.

LAST WEEK, YOU CANCELED THE CONTRACT OF THE COMPANY TO DO THIS WORK TO BRING IT IN HOUSE.

YOU SAID YOU RAMPED UP QUICKER THAN EXPECTED.

>> WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT THE WORK.

IT IS A $10 MILLION LINE ITEM FOR THE TURN AROUND SCHOOLS.

THE GOVERNOR ANNOUNCED IN HER STATE OF THE STATE LAST YEAR AND ANOTHER 5 MILLION THE LEGISLATURE GAVE US FOR AUXILIARY TEACHERS.

THAT MONEY IS TIED TO A BILL, BUT THE BILL DIDN'T COMPLETE THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS.

WE SAID CAN WE TAKE THAT MONEY AND GIVE FIRST OPTION TO TURN AROUND SCHOOLS?

WE IDENTIFIED 15 SCHOOLS, MOST OF THEM ALREADY ON COMPREHENSIVE SCHOOL IMPROVEMENT LIST, WHICH MEANS THEY HAVE LOW ACHIEVEMENT SCORES, MANY HAVE ATTENDANCE PROBLEMS AND NOT GOOD PARENT PARTICIPATION BUT SOMETIMES THEY DO.

BUT THEY ALL STRUGGLE.

THE BIGGEST THING ABOUT THESE SCHOOLS PEOPLE HAVE TO KNOW IS THEY ARE STRUGGLING SCHOOLS BECAUSE THEY ARE IN STRUGGLING COMMUNITIES.

THEY ARE ALL IN STRUGGLING COMMUNITY, HIGH POVERTY AND A LOT OF NEEDS, SOME VERY RURAL AND SOME INNER CITY.

WE WENT IN AND SAID TO THESE PRINCIPALS AND SUPERINTENDENTS, HELP US IDENTIFY WHAT YOU NEED ABOVE AND BEYOND.

WE ARE ALREADY GETTING SCHOOL IMPROVEMENT HELP THROUGH OUR OFFICE OF SCHOOL IMPROVEMENT, BUT WHAT MORE CAN WE DO AS A COMMUNITY, NOT JUST A SCHOOL, NOT JUST HIRING TEACHERS, BUT WHAT DO YOU NEED AS A COMMUNITY TO HELP THESE SCHOOLS THRIVE?

WE WANTED TO GET IT UP AND GOING QUICKLY.

WE HIRED A CONTRACTOR TO HELP DO THE WORK QUICKLY AND KICK IT OFF.

OUR PLAN HAD ALWAYS BEEN WE WOULD EVENTUALLY INTERNALIZE IT ONCE WE GOT IT OFF THE GROUND.

THINGS MOVED ALONG PRETTY FAST AND DECIDED TO INTERNALIZE IT SOONER.

NOW WE ARE WORKING STRAIGHT STATE DEPARTMENT TO THE SCHOOLS AND FEEL GOOD ABOUT THE WORK GOING ON.

MOST OF THE SCHOOLS, AGAIN, THEY STRUGGLE BECAUSE THEY ARE IN STRUGGLING COMMUNITIES.

THEY ARE ALL IN HIGH POVERTY COMMUNITIES.

WE WANT TO -- AND MANY OF THEM, THE CHILDREN TURN OVER A LOT.

THEY ARE NOT NECESSARILY ALL THE SAME CHILDREN IN OCTOBER THAT YOU WILL HAVE NEXT SPRING OR THE NEXT OCTOBER BECAUSE FAMILIES IN MANY OF THESE COMMUNITIES MOVE A LOT.

IT IS WHAT CAN WE DO TO STRENGTHEN AND SUPPORT THESE SCHOOLS.

I WANT TO GIVE ONE EXAMPLE.

ONE SCHOOL HAS GONE THROUGH ALMOST A PRINCIPAL A YEAR FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS.

THEY HAVE HIRED EXCELLENT PRINCIPALS AND THE PROBLEM IS THEY GET IN THERE AND GET OFFERED A JOB -- I DON'T WANT TO SAY AN EASIER JOB BUT MAYBE A LESS STRESSFUL JOB BECAUSE THEY GET TO GO TO A SUBURBAN SCHOOL, MORE MONEY, LESS COMMUNITY STRUGGLE AND SO THEY MOVE AND THEN WE HAVE TO REPLACE THAT PERSON.

EVEN IF WE REPLACE A GREAT PRINCIPAL WITH ANOTHER GREAT PRINCIPAL, WE STILL HAVE THE TRANSITION.

THERE'S ALWAYS SOME TURNOVER.

THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THESE SCHOOLS STRUGGLE.

WE WANT TO LOOK AT WHAT WE CAN DO TO LESSEN THE TURNOVER, TO MAKE THE PARENTS FEEL SAFE, BECAUSE SOME OF THEM ARE NOT IN -- THEY ARE IN HIGHER CRIME NEIGHBORHOODS.

SO HOW DO WE HELP PARENTS FEEL SAFE ABOUT THEIR CHILDREN GOING TO BEFORE AND AFTER-SCHOOL PROGRAM, SUMMER SCHOOL PROGRAMS.

THOSE KIND OF THINGS.

I FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT.

WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT WHERE IT IS HEADED AND THE GOVERNOR HAS MADE IT CLEAR THAT SHE DOESN'T WANT TO GO IN AND WAVE A MAGIC WAND AND DO SOME KIND OF MAGIC SHOW AND PRETEND WE WENT IN AND INVESTED A LITTLE MONEY AND NOW EVERYTHING IS GREAT AND WE WALK AWAY.

SHE WANTS TO TRULY INVEST IN THESE COMMUNITIES TO SEE THOSE CHILDREN HAVE GREATER OPPORTUNITIES.

SO, IT'S A LONG-TERM, MULTI-YEAR EFFORT ON OUR PART WITH THESE SCHOOLS.

>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT TEACHERS IN GENERAL.

WE HEARD A LOT THE LAST YEAR ABOUT A TEACHER SHORTAGE IN ALABAMA.

WHERE ARE WE NOW THAT THE SCHOOL YEAR IS UNDER WAY?

>> I WON'T SAY WE DON'T HAVE A TEACHER SHORTAGE.

I WOULD SAY IN MOST PARTS OF THE STATE WE NO LONGER HAVE A TEACHER SHORTAGE CRISIS.

SO THE CRISIS IS ABATED BUT RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A TIGHT JOB MARKET IN MOST OF THE STATE.

IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN THERE'S A JOB OPENING, THERE MIGHT BE TWO, THREE, IF YOU ARE LUCKY FIVE PEOPLE TO APPLY FOR THAT JOB.

WHEREAS WHEN I WAS A SCHOOL PRINCIPAL 25 YEARS AGO, I'D HAVE A JOB OPENING AND HAVE DOZENS APPLY FOR THE JOB LITERALLY.

IT IS A VERY TIGHT JOB MARKET.

IN SOME PARTS OF THE STATE THAT MEAN WE HAVES A CRISIS, ESPECIALLY IN RURAL COUNTIES.

WHEN YOU HAVE A FIGHT JOB MARKET, COMMUNITIES THAT ARE MORE FAR FLUNG FROM URBAN CENTERS WHERE THERE'S LESS SERVICES, LESS GROCERY STORES, IF YOU ARE A YOUNG PERSON, FEWER PLACES TO GO AND FEWER PEOPLE TO DATE, THEN THEY GO WHERE THE JOBS ARE, IN THE CITIES AND RURAL COUNTIES STILL HAVE A CRISIS.

WE STILL HAVE RURAL COUNTIES THAT ARE UNABLE TO FILL THE TEACHING JOBS, UNABLE TO FILL THEIR ELEMENTARY TEACHING JOBS, WHICH IS THE AREA THAT IS EASIEST TO FILL.

WE STILL HAVE A CRISIS IN PLACES.

WE STILL NEED MORE TEACHERS AND A DEEPER POOL OF TEACHERS.

WE ARE RECRUITING.

WE HAVE HIRED TWO RECRUITERS AT THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION.

WE ARE NOT RECRUITING TEACHERS FOR US BECAUSE WE DON'T HIRE TEACHERS BUT THEY ARE GOING TO COLLEGES AND TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE TO BECOME TEACHERS AND OTHER STATES TO CONVINCE THEM TO APPLY TO TEACH IN ALABAMA.

WE THINK IT IS A GREAT JOB.

TEACHING AND EDUCATION HAS BEEN A WONDERFUL CAREER FOR ME.

WE WANT YOUNG PEOPLE WHO -- TEACHING PAYS OKAY.

IT DOESN'T PAY GREAT.

WE KNOW THAT COMPARED TO MANY PRIVATE SECTOR JOBS, BUT IT IS A JOB WHERE PEOPLE CAN GIVE BACK.

WE WANT YOUNG PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BE CREATIVE, WANT TO INVEST IN OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVES TO KNOW THAT TEACHING IS A PLACE WHERE YOU CAN DO THAT AND STILL MAKE A GOOD LIVING.

>> SPEAKING OF THAT, I UNDERSTAND THAT NOVEMBER IS THANKING ALABAMA TEACHERS MONTH.

>> IT IS.

THANKING ALABAMA TEACHERS MONTH.

LAST YEAR WE HAD THANK ALABAMA TEACHERS WEEK.

AND IT WAS SO POPULAR IT HAS BEEN KICKED OFF TO A MONTH.

THE GOVERNOR WILL BE KICKING THAT OFF AND WE WILL DO A BIG CONTEST THIS YEAR.

I THINK THIS IS THE FIRST ANNOUNCEMENT OF THAT.

A COUPLE OF TICKETS WILL BE GIVEN AWAY TO A TEACHER AND THEIR GUEST AND STUDENTS, FAMILY MEMBERS CAN NOMINATE TEACHERS BY GOING ON INSTAGRAM AND THEY GO TO -- I THINK THEY HAVE TO GO TO OUR ACCOUNT AT ALABAMA ACHIEVES AND ENTER THE TEACHER'S NAME AND SCHOOL AND THEN THEY HAVE TO #THANKALTEACHERS.

OR THANK ALABAMA TEACHERS.

THAT WILL BE KICKING OFF SOON, NOVEMBER 1st TO 18th WE WILL TAKE NOMINATIONS AND NOVEMBER 21st WE WILL NAME THE LUCKY WINNER WHO WILL GET TO GO TO THE IRON BOWL.

WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT IT AND WE HAVE BEEN PARTNERING WITH NICK'S KIDS AND SOME OTHER ORGANIZATIONS TO THANK OUR TEACHERS.

YOU KNOW, TEACHERS GO THROUGH A LOT.

THEY HAVE CERTAINLY BEEN THROUGH A LOT DURING THE PANDEMIC.

WE NEED TO TAKE TIME TO TELL OUR TEACHERS THAT WE APPRECIATE THEM.

>> QUITE A REWARD.

>> YEAH.

>> THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME AND COMING ON "SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION."

>> THANK YOU.

GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

NEXT I'M JOINED BY EMILY SCHULTZ, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF ALABAMA FAMILIES FOR GREAT SCHOOLS.

THANK YOU FOR COMING ON "SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION."

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> YOUR EDUCATION ADVOCATES FOR POLICIES THAT ADVANCE PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS.

SOME VIEWERS MAY BE UNFAMILIAR WITH CHARTER SCHOOLS.

CAN YOU FILL US IN ON THE CONCEPT?

>> SURE.

PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS ARE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

THEY OPERATE OUTSIDE OF A SCHOOL SYSTEM.

THE DAY-TO-DAY DECISIONS OF THE SCHOOL, STAFFING, BUDGET, CURRICULUM ARE MADE BY THE FOLKS IN THE SCHOOL AND A 501 (C) 3 BOARD THAT GOVERNS THE SCHOOL.

IT IS HELD ACCOUNTABLE BY AN AUTHORIZER AND OUR LAW SAYS THEY CAN BE SCHOOL BOARDS OR A STATEWIDE APPOINTED COMMISSION CALLED THE ALABAMA PUBLIC SCHOOL CHARTER COMMISSION.

THEY PROVIDE THE OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY OF CHARTER SCHOOLS.

BECAUSE THEY ARE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, THEY ARE OPEN TO ALL CHILDREN AND THEY OPERATE, AGAIN, OUTSIDE OF A SCHOOL SYSTEM.

>> I GUESS THE IDEA BEING WHEN YOU DON'T OPERATE UNDER THE TRADITIONAL RULES OF THE SYSTEM, KIND OF THE BUREAUCRACY, MAYBE IT LEADS TO MORE INNOVATION AND HIGHER STANDARDS, HIGHER ACCOUNTABILITY?

>> YES.

THE THEORY OF CHANGE IS IN EXCHANGE FOR THIS FLEXIBILITY AND AUTONOMY THE SCHOOL HAS, THEY AGREE TO HIGHER LEVELS OF ACCOUNTABILITY.

THEY GET TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THE INPUTS, CURRICULUM, STAFFING BUDGET AND ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO BENCHMARKS THEY AGREE TO BASED ON THE STANDARDIZED TEST SCORES AT THE END OF THE YEAR.

>> ALABAMA PASSED ITS CHARTER SCHOOLS LAW IN 2015.

I REMEMBER YOU SAY WE WERE THE 43rd STATE TO PASS IT.

NOT ON THE FRONT END THERE.

IT HAS BEEN SEVEN YEARS, CAN YOU TELL ME THE STATE OF CHARTER SCHOOLS, HOW MANY DO WE HAVE?

HOW MANY STUDENTS DOES IT SERVE?

>> I THINK THE VALUE OF BEING ON THE BACK END OF PASSING A PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS, ENABLING PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS IS WE HAD 42 STATES TO LEARN FROM.

WE VALUED TRUE AUTONOMY IN OUR BILL AND IN THE LAW AND WE ALSO AGREED TO HIGH LEVELS OF ACCOUNTABLE.

OUR LAWS ARE CONSTRUCTED TO MAKE SURE WE GET HIGH-QUALITY SCHOOLS.

IN THAT VEIN WE WANTED TO GET IT RIGHT BEFORE WE GOT IT FAST.

SEVEN YEARS OF IMPLEMENTATION AND WE HAVE 13 SCHOOLS ACROSS THE STATE AND SERVE 5700 KIDS TOTAL.

THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF CHARTER SCHOOLS, PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS THAT ARE ENABLED BY OUR LAW STARTUPS, WHICH MEANS A BRAND NEW SCHOOL THAT OPERATES OUTSIDE OF THE SCHOOL SYSTEM, A NEW SET OF KIDS COMING FROM ACROSS THE DISTRICT NEW TEACHERS, EVERYTHING IS NEW.

IT SERVES AND OPERATES AS ITS OWN SCHOOL SYSTEM.

THEN WE ALSO HAVE CONVERSIONS.

THERE ARE THREE CONVERSIONS OF THE 13 SCHOOLS.

THEY ARE HERE IN MONTGOMERY.

THEY ARE SCHOOLS THAT OPERATED AND EXISTED AS TRADITIONAL DISTRICT SCHOOLS AND THE DISTRICT SAID WE WANT TO TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

WE WANT TO HAVE SOME OF THE FLEXIBILITY AND AUTONOMY.

SO, THEY CONTRACT WITH A CHARTER SCHOOL OPERATOR TO MANAGE THE SCHOOL IN EXCHANGE FOR A HIGHER LEVEL OF ACCOUNTABILITY BUT SAME SET OF KIDS THAT WERE ENROLLED PRIOR TO THE CONVERSION.

THEN THE FOLKS IN THE SCHOOL GET TO MAKE THE DECISIONS AROUND STAFFING, BUDGET AND CURRICULUM AND THE SCHOOL SYSTEM HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR RESULTS.

>> FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE CHARTER SCHOOLS DEBATE, IF YOU WILL, GOING BACK TO THE LATE 2000S, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF RESISTANCE FROM THE EDUCATION ESTABLISHMENT.

THEY CHARTER SCHOOLS COMPETING FOR RESOURCES AND STUDENTS.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THOSE CRITICS WHO REALLY JUST WANT A YOU WILL OF THE FOCUS -- WHO BELIEVE ALL THE FOCUS AND RESOURCES SHOULD BE ON THOSE TRADITIONAL DISTRICT SCHOOLS?

>> MY FIRST RESPONSE IS ALWAYS THESE ARE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, JUST LIKE DISTRICT SCHOOLS.

THIS IS JUST A DIFFERENT WAY TO DO PUBLIC SCHOOL.

IT IS REALLY ABOUT EMPOWERING ADULTS THAT ARE CLOSEST TO KIDS.

SO THAT IS TEACHERS AND PARENTS.

IT'S ABOUT EMPOWERING THEM TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THAT ARE RIGHT FOR THE KIDS IN FRONT OF THEM.

IT'S NOT FOLKS IN MONTGOMERY MAKING DECISIONS FOR KIDS 300 MILES AWAY.

IT IS THE PEOPLE IN FRONT OF THEM TEACHING THE KIDS EVERY DAY THAT ARE EMPOWERED TO MAKE DECISIONS THAT IMPACT KIDS AND EDUCATIONAL OUTCOMES.

CHARTERS WERE REALLY BORN IN THE EARLY '90s BY A GROUP OF TEACHERS THAT REALLY FELT LIKE THEY WERE CONSTRAINED BY THE RED TAPE AND BUREAUCRACY THAT WAS COMING DOWN FROM THEIR SCHOOL SYSTEM.

THEY REALLY WANTED TO BE EMPOWERED TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR KIDS.

THE IRONY IS CHARTERS WERE BORN OF TEACHERS THAT WANTED TO HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY TO BE NIMBLE AND MEET THE NEEDS OF KIDS.

SO, THAT'S KIND OF THE FIRST THING I WOULD SAY.

THE SECOND IS THESE ARE TAXPAYER DOLLARS.

WE ARE TAXED TO SUPPORT PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

THEY DON'T BELONG TO A SCHOOL SYSTEM.

THEY SHOULD BE USED TO EMPOWER FAMILIES TO MAKE THE BEST CHOICE FOR THEIR KIDS.

CHARTER SCHOOLS ARE FUNDED IN ALABAMA.

THEY GET ALL FEDERAL FUNDING ASSOCIATED WITH THE CHILDREN THAT ARE ENROLLED AND ALL STATE FUNDING THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE CHILDREN ENROLLED BUT NOT LOCAL FUNDING AND THE CHARTER SCHOOL DESERVES ACCESS TO LOCAL FUNDING BECAUSE THEY ARE SERVING KIDS JUST LIKE DISTRICTS ARE BUT IT IS A BATTLE OVER THAT LOCAL FUNDING BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY THAT BELIEVE THAT SHOULD BELONG TO THE ADULTS IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM N THE TRADITIONAL SCHOOL DISTRICT.

>> WE JUST HAD NAEP SCORES COME OUT, NATIONAL ASSESSMENT OF EDUCATION PROGRESS, THE NATION'S REPORT CARD.

IT SHOWED SOME PROGRESS.

A FEW MONTHS AGO WE HAD THE ACAP, ALABAMA SPECIFIC TEST SCORES COME OUT.

NO QUESTION NEED TO IMPROVE.

THE PROFICIENCY NUMBERS ARE LOW.

I HEAR FROM LAWMAKERS WHO HAVE A COMMON FRUSTRATION ESPECIALLY ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.

THEY SAY, YOU KNOW, WEIGHING DOWN THE AVERAGE SCORE WE HAVE FOR THE STATE ARE DRASTICALLY POOR-PERFORMING SCHOOL DISTRICTS THAT HAVE WAY LOW PROFICIENCY, 5% OR MAYBE UNDER 5%.

>> ZERO PERCENT IN SOME CASES.

>> ACUTE, SPECIFIC PROBLEMS IN INDIVIDUAL PLACE.

YOU TALK ABOUT CONVERSION CHARTERS AND IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE THAT COULD BE AN OPTION FOR SOME OF THESE DISTRICTS THAT MAYBE THEY DON'T WANT A BRAND NEW SCHOOL MOVING IN OR MAYBE THEY CAN'T -- MAYBE THAT'S NOT APPROPRIATE BUT FOR A SCHOOL TO MAYBE GET TURNED AROUND, MAYBE A CONVERSION CHARTER -- HAS THAT BEEN DISCUSSED AS AN OPTION TO TURN AROUND POOR-PERFORMING SCHOOLS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK STEPPING BACK, SOME OF THE CHRONIC UNDER PERFORMING SCHOOLS THAT HAVE BEEN UNDER PERFORMING FOR DECADES AND ARE OFTEN LOCATED IN AREAS OF EXTREME POVERTY WHERE THE KIDS ARE COMING IN WITH A LOT OF NEEDS JUST OUTSIDE OF ACADEMICS.

THEY NEED WRAPAROUND SERVICES AND MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORTS.

AND THE FOLKS CLOSEST TO THOSE KIDS KNOW THAT.

THEY MIGHT HAVE IDEAS ABOUT HOW TO SERVE KIDS AND ALL OF THOSE NEEDS.

THEY NEED THE FLEXIBILITY, BUDGET AND STAFFING TO DO THAT.

SO CONVERSIONS ARE ONE WAY TO DO THAT.

I THINK AN IMPORTANT AND MEANINGFUL WAY AND WE ARE SEEING EARLY, PROMISING RESULTS OUT OF THE CONVERSIONS IN MONTGOMERY.

THAT FEEDER PATTERN WAS CHRONICALLY UNDER PERFORMING FEEDER PATTERN AND THE SCHOOL SYSTEM -- AND I APPLAUD THEM FOR SAYING WE REALLY NEED TO TRY SOMETHING VERY DIFFERENT, NOT TINKER WITH THE EDGES BUT RETHINK HOW WE ARE OVERSEEING AND PRESCRIBING WHAT THIS SCHOOL NEEDS.

THEY ARE EMPOWERING AN ORGANIZATION TO MAKE DECISIONS THAT -- THEY MIGHT MAKE DECISIONS THAT PRIORITIZE MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORTS OR SCHOOL COUNSELORS AND THEY ARE ABLE TO MOVE MONEY TO DO THAT.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO JUST TAKE THE FORMULA, THE WAY THINGS HAVE BEEN DONE.

ABSOLUTELY.

IT IS A WAY TO USE A SCALPEL AND THINK STRATEGICALLY ABOUT HOW WE ARE EMPOWERING FOLKS THAT ARE CLOSEST TO KIDS TO SERVE THE NEEDS OF THOSE CHILDREN, PARTICULARLY IN THESE CHRONICALLY UNDER PERFORMING SCHOOLS.

>> IT IS INTERESTING BECAUSE, LIKE YOU SAID, IT'S THE SAME STUDENTS, THE SAME BUILDING.

>> YES, ABSOLUTELY.

>> IN MANY CASES THE SAME TEACHER.

AND SO DO YOU I THINK MONTGOMERY EXAMPLE -- OF COURSE, WE WON'T KNOW FOR A FEW MORE YEARS -- COULD BE AN EXAMPLE FOR THE REST OF THE STATE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK THE EARLY INDICATORS, AS YOU ARE CHANGING A SCHOOL, REALLY DRAMATICALLY, THE EARLY INDICATORS WILL BE AROUND AND TOTAL AND QUALITATIVE AROUND THE EXPERIENCE OF KIDS THAT WERE IN THE SCHOOL BEFORE AND AFTER.

AND I THINK WHAT YOU WILL HEAR IS FAMILIES AREN'T SAYING, OH, THOSE TEACHERS DIDN'T CARE.

THERE ARE A TREMENDOUS NUMBER OF EFFECTIVE, QUALITY TEACHERS IN SOME CHRONICALLY UNDER PERFORMING SCHOOLS.

THEY JUST HAVEN'T BEEN GIVEN THE FLEXIBILITY TO DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO.

THEY HAVEN'T BEEN EMPOWERED TO SERVE KIDS IN A WAY THAT WORKS FOR THAT CLASSROOM OR THAT COMMUNITY.

ONCE YOU KIND OF UNSHACKLE TEACHERS, IT'S REMARKABLE WHAT THEY CAN DO.

WE ARE SEEING EARLY INDICATORS AROUND CULTURE AND CLIMATE, DISCIPLINE, DATA, ALL OF THOSE EARLY INDICATORS THAT SET A SCHOOL UP TO BE ACADEMICALLY SUCCESSFUL.

>> A LOT OF LAWMAKERS -- OR PARENTS OUT THERE MAY WONDER WELL, GOODNESS THE FLEXIBILITY SOUNDS GREAT, AND OF COURSE YOU WANT LESS BUREAUCRACY AND ALL OF THAT WHEN IT COMES TO EDUCATION, SO WHY NOT GIVE IT TO ANY SCHOOL?

WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE A CHARTER SCHOOL?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I THINK ONE PIECE OF THIS IS CONVERSIONS ARE A WAY TO GET FLEXIBILITY INTO DISTRICT SCHOOLS.

ALSO, I THINK THERE'S A WAY TO DO THAT.

THE ACCOUNTABILITY ACT, PASSED IN 2013, BEFORE CHARTERS.

THE BULK OF THE LAW IS ABOUT GIVING DISTRICTS THE FLEXIBILITY, THIS SIMILAR TYPE OF FLEXIBILITY, THE IMPORTANT PART IS IN EXCHANGE FOR ACCOUNTABILITY.

THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO APPLY TO THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION FOR WAIVERS AROUND CERTAIN REGULATIONS OR LAWS THAT THEY DON'T FEEL APPLY TO THEIR COMMUNITY OR SCHOOLS OR HINDER THEM FROM BETTER OUTCOMES.

THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO APPLY TO THE STATE DEPARTMENT FOR THOSE FLEXIBILITIES.

WE'D LOVE TO WORK WITH THEM AND PARTNER WITH THEM AND THINK OF WAYS THAT THOSE KINDS OF AUTONOMIES AND FLEXIBILITIES COULD BE REALLY POWERFUL.

>> I FOLLOW THIS STUFF CLOSELY AND DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

THAT IS INTERESTING.

SWITCHING GEARS.

REPUBLICAN CONTROLS THE LEGISLATURE HERE IN THE STATEHOUSE.

I HEAR THEM SAY A LOT, WHETHER IT IS WHEN THE LEGISLATURE IS IN SESSION, OR ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL THEY SUPPORT SCHOOL CHOICE.

SOMETIMES I THINK THEY ARE TALKING OTHER THAN CHARTER SCHOOLS, SOMETIMES TALKING ABOUT VOUCHERS OR TAKING YOUR TAX MONEY AND GO ACROSS THE STREET.

NOT EXACTLY CHARTER SCHOOLS.

WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS THAT DESPITE THEIR SUPPORT FOR SCHOOL CHOICE SOME REPUBLICANS HAVE NOT SPECIFICALLY GOTTEN BEHIND THE IDEA OF CHARTER SCHOOLS?

>> I THINK ONE OF THE CHALLENGES IS THAT CHARTER SCHOOLS ARE A NEW CONSTRUCT.

PRIVATE SCHOOLS HAVE BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME.

PEOPLE UNDERSTAND PRIVATE SCHOOLS WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD DISTRICT AND PRIVATE SCHOOLS AND PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THOSE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES.

WE THROW IN CHARTER SCHOOLS, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A LEARNING CURVE THAT COMES ALONG WITH TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, ALL RIGHT, THESE ARE OPERATED BY A 501 (C) 3 AND OVERSEEN BY A PUBLIC AGENCY.

BUT THEY ARE ALSO HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR RESULTS.

THIS WHOLE NOTION OF IT IS HARD TO GET YOUR HEAD AROUND, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT POLICY ISSUES.

>> SURE.

>> WE FELT LIKE ONCE THE LAW PASSED IN '15, WE HAVE CHARTER SCHOOLS THAT YOU CAN WALK IN AND SEE AND UNDERSTAND THEM AND WE CAN BREAKDOWN MISCONCEPTIONS AND WE ARE GETTING LEGISLATORS IN TO CHARTER SCHOOLS SO THEY CAN SEE THEM.

AND THAT HELPS.

THAT HELPS TO BRIDGE THAT GAP.

I ALSO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE -- WE HAVE A LOT OF LEGISLATORS FROM RURAL COMMUNITIES AND WE HAVE TWO CHARTER SCHOOLS, ONE IN SUMTER AND ONE IN PERRY COUNTY THAT HAVE SEEN REMARKABLE RESULTS.

THEY ARE BEATING THE STATE AVERAGE.

ONE OF THEM AFTER ONLY ONE YEAR OF OPERATION AND ARE DOING INCREDIBLE THINGS.

WE HAVE TO HELP LEGISLATORS ASSOCIATE THEM WITH SEE WHAT IT CAN LOOK LIKE IN THEIR OWN COMMUNITY.

AND EVALUATE IT'S NOT GOING TO BE RIGHT FOR EVERY COMMUNITY BUT THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT A CONVERSION IN A RURAL SETTING MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE.

LEGISLATORS, WE HAVE TO GET THEIR HEAD AROUND, OKAY, WHAT CAN THIS LOOK LIKE IN MY DISTRICT AND COMMUNITY AND PART OF THAT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY AS ADVOCATES AND THAT'S WHY MY ORGANIZATION EXISTS TO CREATE THOSE CONNECTIONS BETWEEN LEGISLATORS AND CHARTER SCHOOL STAKEHOLDERS AND LET THEM KNOW THAT FAMILIES WANT THIS.

FAMILIES WANT HIGH-QUALITY OPTIONS.

>> REAL QUICK, WHILE I HAVE YOU, GOT A MINUTE.

WHAT POLICY CHANGES WILL YOUR ORGANIZATION BE PURSUING IN THE NEXT SESSION?

>> WE HAVE A COUPLE OF THINGS.

ANY LAW YOU PASS AFTER YOU GET A LITTLE BIT OF IMPLEMENTATION UNDER YOUR BELT, THERE ARE TWEAKS AND CHANGES WE WANT TO MAKE.

I CAN'T RIGHT NOW PREDICT WHAT WE WILL TAKE ON IN THIS SESSION.

AND AS THE LEGISLATURE SHAKES OUT AND GETS ORGANIZED.

BROADLY, WE HAVE A COUPLE OF POLICY PRIORITIES THAT WE WANT TO SEE ADDRESSED, EITHER AT THE LEGISLATIVE LEVEL OR REGULATORY LEVEL.

ONE OF THOSE IS THAT ACCESS TO LOCAL FUNDING THAT I MENTIONED EARLIER.

WE HAVE SOME CHARTER SCHOOLS THAT ARE RECEIVING AS MUCH AS $4,000 LESS PER STUDENT THAN THEIR DISTRICT PEERS.

THAT GAP IS JUST IN MY OPINION UNCONSCIONABLE.

KIDS ARE NOT WORTH LESS BECAUSE THEIR FAMILY HAS CHOSEN ANOTHER PUBLIC SCHOOL OPTION.

WE'D LIKE TO SEE THAT ADDRESSED AT SOME POINT.

WE'D LIKE TO SEE THE STATEWIDE CHARTER COMMISSION THAT HOLDS THE SCHOOLS ACCOUNTABLE BE EMPOWERED TO SUPPORT THESE SCHOOLS AND HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE AND MAKE SURE THEY HAVE THE STAFF NECESSARY TO PROVIDE APPROPRIATE LEVELS OF OVERSIGHT.

AND THEN, WE'D VERY MUCH LIKE TO SEE -- THERE ARE A COUPLE OF WONKY BUDGET FLEXIBILITIES WE WANT TO MAKE SURE CHARTERS ARE EMPOWERED TO MOVE MONEY APPROPRIATELY TO CERTAIN NEEDS OF KIDS IN FRONT OF THEM.

>> WELL, WE WILL BE FOLLOWING.

EMILY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING ON "SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION."

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> MOST CHILDREN IN ALABAMA DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO FORMAL PRE-K PROGRAMS TO HELP PREPARE FOR SCHOOL.

ALL CHILDREN IN ALABAMA HAVE ACCESS TO THE CHILDREN'S PROGRAMMING ON ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

THESE PROGRAMS ARE PROVEN TO HELP CHILDREN START SCHOOL BETTER PREPARED TO SUCCEED.

JUST WATCHING PROGRAMS LIKE "SESAME STREET," AND "CURIOUS GEORGE" CAN HAVE A PROFOUND IMPACT ON HOW KIDS DO FROM KINDERGARTEN ALL THE WAY THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL.

IT'S ON AIR PRE-K EVERY DAY ON ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

APTV ENCOURAGES PARENTS TO WATCH THESE VALUABLE PROGRAMS WITH THEIR CHILDREN.

>> NEXT, I'M JOINED BY DR. JIMMY HULL.

ALABAMA'S ASSISTANT SUPERINTENDENT OF CAREER TECHNICAL EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT.

DR.

HULL, THANK YOU FOR COMING ON "SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION."

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> DID IT GET IT RIGHT?

>> YES.

ALABAMA'S ASSISTANT SUPERINTENDENT OF CAREER TECHNICAL EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT.

>> I FEEL LIKE WE SPEND A LOT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT HIGHER ED BUT NOT ENOUGH TIME ABOUT CAREER TRAINING.

I WAS HOPING YOU CAN WALK ME THROUGH YOUR ROLE.

>> MY CHARGE IS TO OVERSEE CAREER AND TECHNICAL EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMMING FOR THE STATE IN THE K-12 SETTING WHILE WORKING IN PARTNERSHIP WITH TWO-YEAR COLLEGE SYSTEM AS WELL AS ANY OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES THAT WE NEED TO WORK WITH RELATED TO WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT AND ENSURING WE ARE PROVIDING THE BEST PROGRAMMING POSSIBLE IN THE K-12 ENVIRONMENT FOR STUDENTS TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE PREPARED FOR THE WORKFORCE NEEDS AFTER THEY GRADUATE HIGH SCHOOL.

>> WE HAVE COVERED A LOT ON THIS PROGRAM AND ON "CAPITOL JOURNAL" ABOUT GOVERNOR IVEY'S ATTAINMENT GOAL.

IT SEEMS AMBITIOUS.

500,000 WORKERS FOR THE WORKFORCE BY 2025, WHICH IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER.

HOW DOES CAREER AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL PLAY INTO THAT GOAL?

>> YES.

WE ACTUALLY PLAY A PRETTY LARGE ROLE IN THAT.

WE FEEL LIKE IN K-12, CT EDUCATION.

ALL OF OUR PROGRAMS THAT WE HAVE IN CAREER TECH IN THE SECONDARY LEVEL ALL HAVE CREDENTIALS THAT STUDENTS HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO EARN THROUGH THE PROGRAMS THEY TAKE.

SO, THOSE CREDENTIALS, MANY OF THEM FALL INTO THAT REALM OF THE 500,000 THAT WE NEED TO EARN.

WE ARE CONSISTENTLY, CONSTANTLY HAVING STUDENTS GRADUATING HIGH SCHOOL WITH A LOT OF CREDENTIALS THAT CAN TRANSLATE INTO OPPORTUNITIES INTO THE WORKFORCE.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE COVID ISSUE HURT OUR CREDENTIALING.

WE EXPECTED THAT BUT WE ARE SEEING IT TICK UP SIGNIFICANTLY.

IN A GIVEN YEAR, WE ARE HAVING 30,000 STUDENTS -- OR 30,000 CREDENTIALS EARNED PER YEAR THROUGHOUT OUR HIGH SCHOOLS ACROSS THE STATE.

AS THOSE NUMBERS ADD UP, WE ARE CHIPPING AWAY AT THE 500,000 TOTAL THROUGH OUR HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATES COMING OUT ALREADY EQUIPPED WITH HIGH DEMAND, HIGH WAGE CREDENTIALS THAT ARE INDUSTRY RECOGNIZED ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> I WAS GOING TO ASK ABOUT THAT.

HAVING THAT CREDENTIAL IS WHAT TELLS A BUSINESS THAT IS HIRING THAT THIS PERSON IS PROFICIENT AT WHATEVER IT IS.

HVAC, GO DOWN THE LIST OF THOSE SKILLS.

SO HOW IMPORTANT IS IT FOR THAT STUDENT TO HAVE THAT CREDENTIAL, OPPOSED TO JUST HAVING SOME EXPERIENCE OR COUPLE OF COURSES?

>> RIGHT.

THE IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER ABOUT THE CREDENTIALS WE ARE LEARNING IN HIGH SCHOOL IS THEY ARE INDUSTRY RECOGNIZED AND THEY ARE THE SAME CERTIFICATION TESTS THAT ANYONE ELSE WOULD TAKE.

THEY ARE NOT LOCALLY DESIGNED OR TESTS WE MADE UP FROM THE STATE DEPARTMENT.

IF A STUDENT IS GOING TO TRY TO BECOME CERTIFIED IN AUTO CAD FOR DRAFTING DESIGN, ARCHITECTURE PROGRAM, THAT EXAM IS THE AUTO CAD EXAM.

IT IS THE SAME ONE.

NOT DROPPED TO A HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL.

WHEN THE STUDENT PASSES THE CERTIFICATION ON TOP OF THE COURSE WORK, IF THEY WANT TO GO TO ARCHITECTURE, THEY ARE WELL PREPARE AND HAVE A GREAT FOUNDATION AND PROVEN TO BE PRO EFFICIENT AT THE FUNDAMENTAL LEVELS OF AUTO CAD SO THEY CAN PERFORM AT A HIGH LEVEL IN POST SECONDARY AS A STUDENT OR GO TO THE WORKFORCE.

>> MANY YEARS AGO, WHEN I WAS COMING THROUGH SCHOOL, THE CAREER TRAINING THAT EXISTED REALLY STARTED IN HIGH SCHOOL.

I REMEMBER, YOU WOULD GET THROUGH JUNIOR HIGH AND THEN SOME FOLKS WOULD GO TOWARD WHAT WAS THEN CALLED VOCATIONAL TRAINING.

IT WAS REALLY NOT BEFORE THEN.

NOW I UNDERSTAND IT IS STARTING A LOT SOONER, IN THE MIDDLE AND JUNIOR HIGH RANGE.

IS THAT CORRECT?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

THAT IS A PRIORITY WE HAVE THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT TO DO A BETTER JOB WITH MIDDLE SCHOOL STUDENTS AND BEGINNING THE CAREER TECH PROCESS AND GETTING THEM FAMILIAR WITH THE CONCEPT OF EDUCATION IS A TRAINING OF A CAREER GOAL.

CAREER TECHNICAL EDUCATION HAS ALWAYS BEEN IMPORTANT IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA, EVEN WHEN VOCATIONAL TRAINING.

BUT UNDER DR. MACKEY'S LEADERSHIP AND THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE THERE IS A RENEWED EMPHASIS AND FOCUS ON MAKING SURE GRADUATES ARE LEAVING HIGH SCHOOL CAREER READY, READY TO ENTER THE WORKFORCE.

WHETHER THEY GO TO COLLEGE OR NOT IS IRRELEVANT.

AT SOME POINT, STUDENTS WILL STOP GOING TO SCHOOL AND THEY HAVE TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY GET A JOB.

IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE DO WHAT WE CAN DO IN THE K-12 ENVIRONMENT TO MAKE SURE OUR STUDENTS ARE READY TO GO INTO THE WORKFORCE.

SO, BY INTRODUCING THE CONCEPT EARLIER OF THE EDUCATION YOU ARE RECEIVING IN HIGH SCHOOL IS BUILDING TOWARDS AN END GOAL OF A CAREER, WE ARE ABLE TO ENGAGE PARENTS AT A YOUNGER AGE.

WHEN THEY ARE MORE INVOLVED IN THEIR CHILD'S EDUCATION, AS LOW AS FIFTH GRADE, SO WE DEVELOPED TOOLS LIKE THE ALABAMA CAREER DEVELOPMENT MODEL.

WE HAVE OFFERED GRANT LAST YEAR AND THIS YEAR RELATED TO EXPANDING AND INNOVATING MIDDLE GRADE PROGRAMMING FOR CTE AND LOOKING FOR WAYS TO WORK WITH OUR WORKFORCE COUNCIL PARTNERS ACROSS THE DIFFERENT REGIONS TO BUILD OUR WORLD OF WORK EVENTS WHERE WE HAVE 8th GRADERS EXPOSED TO ANY MYRIAD OF OCCUPATION ACROSS THE STATE AND REGION THAT ARE IN HIGH DEMAND AND HIGH WAGE.

AGAIN, IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE DO EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN IN THAT GRADES 5-8 TO MAKE SURE STUDENTS ARE CONNECTING THEIR EDUCATIONAL OUTCOME TO SOMETHING OTHER THAN JUST FINISHING HIGH SCHOOL.

THERE'S ANOTHER STEP, WHETHER THAT IS INTO COLLEGE, WORKFORCE, THAT'S GREAT BUT WE ARE NOT IN SCHOOL FOR THE SAKE OF BEING IN SCHOOL AND UNDER DR. MACKEY'S LEADERSHIP AND THE WAY THE STRATEGIC PLAN IS BUILT THAT CAREER READINESS PIECE IS A CRITICAL PART OF WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO.

>> I REMEMBER YOU SAYING DOWN AT THE MOBILE CONFERENCE THAT IT IS ABOUT THE W-2.

>> THAT'S MY LINE.

THE DIPLOMA IS IMPORTANT BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY IT IS ABOUT BEING ABLE TO GET AND KEEP THE W-2.

WHETHER IT IS A 25-YEAR-OLD MASTERS LEVEL GRADUATE OR 18-YEAR-OLD WHO JUST WALKED OFF THE STAGE.

YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO GET OUT AND BE A POSITIVE PART OF SOCIETY AND THAT STARTS WITH GETTING THAT W-2.

>> ALONG THOSE LINES, IT'S ULTIMATELY ABOUT STUDENTS LANDING JOBS.

YOU TALKED ABOUT IN-DEMAND JOBS, IN-DEMAND FIELDS.

HOW DO YOU, FROM A DEPARTMENT STANDPOINT, MAKE SURE YOUR COURSES AND THOSE THINGS ARE ALIGNED TO AND KEEP UP WITH WHAT IS IN DEMAND IN TERMS OF EMPLOYMENT?

>> YEAH.

THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION AND AN IMPORTANT PART OF WHAT WE ARE DOING NOW.

THROUGH PERKINS V AND THE PARTNERSHIP WITH THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AND THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, WE HAVE BEEN WORKING HARD WITH OUR LOCAL DIRECTORS.

THEY HAVE TO DEVELOP A COMP HENCE HIV LOCAL NEEDS ASSESSMENT.

THEIR TASK WITH MAKING SURE THEIR PROGRAM BE IN A CAREER TECH CENTER OR LOCAL HIGH SCHOOL IS ALIGNED TO THOSE HIGH-DEMAND, HIGH-WAGE JOBS.

SO WHEN STUDENTS ARE TAKING OUR CAREER TECH PROGRAMS, THERE'S RELEVANCY TO THAT FOR THEM.

BECAUSE WHEN THEY LEAVE HIGH SCHOOL, THERE'S A NEED IN THE WORKFORCE FOR THE SKILLS AND TRAINING WHILE THEY WERE IN HIGH SCHOOL OPPOSED TO LEGACY PROGRAMS THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME AND THEY ARE STRONG PROGRAMS BUT DON'T OFFER THE STUDENTS MORE THAN A COOL HOBBY.

NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY WITH THE FUNDING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COMBINED WITH THE FUNDING FROM THE STATE LEGISLATURE IT IS IMPERATIVE TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MAKE SURE OUR PROGRAMS ARE ALIGNED WITH HIGH-DEMAND HIGH-WAGE JOBS IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA TO MAKE SURE THE STUDENTS HAVE THE SKILLS NECESSARY TO GROW THE ECONOMY.

>> YOU MENTIONED COVID A MINUTE AGO.

WE ARE HEARING A LOT THIS WEEK ABOUT HOW COVID IMPACTED EDUCATION NEGATIVELY, RIGHT?

WITH LEARNING LOSS.

I'M CURIOUS ON THE CAREER TECH LEVEL BECAUSE SO MANY OF THOSE PROGRAMS ARE HANDS ON.

YOU CAN'T DO THINGS HANDS ON VIA ZOOM.

HOW WAS THAT NAVIGATED?

HAVE WE COME OUT OF THAT PRETTY WELL?

>> THE IMPLICATIONS OF COVID AND HOW IT'S AFFECTED PARTICULARLY K-12 WORLD ARE CERTAINLY SIGNIFICANT AND WE PROBABLY WON'T KNOW THE FULL RANGE OF HOW MUCH IMPACT IT HAS HAD POSSIBLY FOR ABOUT TEN YEARS AS WE -- THE STUDENTS THAT WERE IN THE LOWER GRADES WERE IMPACTED AND IT'S GOING TO MAYBE CREATE SOME ISSUES WITH THEM MOVING FORWARD AT THE RIGHT SPACE.

IN THE CAREER TECH WORLD, IT WAS PROBLEMATIC FOR SURE.

YOU ARE 100% CORRECT.

THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH YOU CAN DO IN A VIRTUAL SETTING RELATED TO MOST OF OUR CAREER TECH PROGRAMS.

IT'S ONE THING TO WATCH A VIDEO ON HOW YOU CHANGE BRAKES OUT ON A CAR BUT UNTIL YOU CHANGE THE BRAKES OUT YOU CAN'T MASTER IT, UNTIL YOU GET YOUR HANDS ON IT AND DO THAT.

SOME OF OUR PROGRAMS DO LEND BETTER TO A VIRTUAL SETTING.

YOU CAN DO A LOT MORE.

OTHERS THAT REALLY REQUIRE THE HANDS-ON PIECE, YOU CAN'T CUT WOOD WITH A SAW UNTIL YOU CUT WOOD WITH A SAW.

ONLY SO MUCH YOU CAN DO.

THERE ARE SOME COOL AND EFFECTIVE VIRTUAL REALITY TOOLS THAT WE HAVE OUT NOW WHERE STUDENTS ARE ABLE TO DO THE MOTIONS AND THE SKILLS AND THE TECHNIQUES IN A VIRTUAL SETTING BUT IT CERTAINLY WAS PROBLEMATIC.

ON THE GOOD SIDE, THE GOVERNOR AND DR. MACKEY WERE BOTH REALLY STRONG IN SAYING WE NEED TO GET STUDENTS BACK IN SCHOOL.

I THINK THE TIME THAT WE MISSED WAS AS LITTLE AS ANYBODY ELSE EXPERIENCED IN THE COUNTRY AND THAT WAS A POSITIVE FOR US.

I THINK WHAT WE ARE SEEING WITH THE DATA THAT HAS COME OUT RELATED TO NAEP SCORES AND OTHER THINGS THAT WE NOW SEE IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT THAT STUDENTS ARE IN SCHOOL.

THEY ARE IN THE CLASSROOMS AND HAVING FACE-TO-FACE INTERACTION AND GETTING HANDS-ON OPPORTUNITIES.

YES, IT WAS A CHALLENGE, BUT IT DID ALSO DO A COUPLE OTHER THINGS FOR US.

IT ALLOWED US TO SEE WHERE THERE ARE SOME THINGS WE COULD DO BETTER AND OPPORTUNITIES TO DO SOME THINGS IN A VIRTUAL SETTING.

AT THE SAME TIME, IT ALSO SHOWED WHERE IT IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL THAT WE ARE IN THOSE FACE-TO-FACE SETTINGS AND THE STUDENTS GET HANDS-ON OPPORTUNITIES TO PROVE THEY CAN DO THE SKILLS NEEDED.

>> ALWAYS A SILVER LINING.

>> WE'RE OUT OF TIME BUT THANK YOU FOR COMING ON "SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION."

>> THANK YOU.

>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

♪ >> ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION'S READY TO LEARN SERVICE IS ON THE ROAD EVERY WEEK PROVIDING ON-SITE WORKSHOPS, RESOURCES AND BOOKS FOR CHILDCARE PROFESSIONALS, TEACHERS AND PARENTS ACROSS THE STATE.

ON THE GO, HELPING CHILDREN GROW -- ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

>> THAT'S ALL FOR THIS EPISODE OF "SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION."

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

BE SURE TO TUNE INTO OUR REGULAR "CAPITOL JOURNAL" EPISODES, THAT'S FRIDAY NIGHT AT 7:30 RIGHT HERE ON ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

FOR OUR "SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION" TEAM, I'M TODD STACY.

SEE YOU NEXT TIME.